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Thank you for joining us for pushing public safety with Ann Davison.

Moderated by Joni Balter Before we begin, we'd like to thank our social justice track sponsor Waldron.

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We'd also like to thank our founding sponsor, the Carey and Linda Killinger Foundation Hello, and welcome to the Crosscut Festival.

I'm Joni Balter journalist and political analyst.

I've been writing and opining about politics for a number of years in Seattle, writing editorials for a while at the Seattle Times.

I do a fair amount of public radio and host events similar to this program at Seattle University.

Today, I will be talking with City Attorney Ann Davison, Seattle's first female city attorney, and I guess I should say this softly in this town She's a Republican.

She ran on a law and order platform Earlier, she ran for lieutenant governor of Washington State and sought a seat on the city council that was a few years back.

Today, we are gathered to talk about public safety in a city that earlier supported the idea of defunding police.

The net effect of some of that almost 400 officers have left the police department, and crime, especially violent crime, has increased significantly.

Various polls show Seattlelites in an uproar over public safety.

They want their politicians to make the city safe again.

City Attorney Davidson welcome.

Hello, Johnny, how are you today?

Good.

How are you doing?

I'm good.

Thank you.

So just for fun, I would like to start by noting that Seattle, the races are officially nonpartisan , hasn't elected a Republican for something like 30 years City Attorney Ann Davison.

How does your Republican affiliation affect the job that you will do in the City Attorney's Office?

I think it's important, as you said, that it is a nonpartisan seat.

And when it comes to someone like me who never planned to be into politics.

That's how I want to keep it.

It's important that we focus on people and issues.

I think that it's time that we have a new type of Republican as well, that there's a northwest version, there's an evergreen version, and that's important.

But when it comes to what is happening in the city of Seattle, why I thought this seat is the impact it can have on public safety and the lives of individuals, whether they're victims or people who are caught in a cycle of crime.

We can't move past fear to improve other social issues until we have this handled, and it's important that we focus on that Do you believe that voters, by electing you Mayor Bruce Harrell and City Councilmember Sara Nelson all at the same time, were sending a message?

And if so, what was the message I do think that now we have a broader and more inclusive voice in local government, and it's important to have that.

I think when we have that, we have a more balanced perspective across the way to handle these social issues that we are struggling and having conversations about, only by adding a blended voice can we really get all perspectives and find the best solutions for the problems we're faced with as a society.

And you recently announced that you would decline to prosecute 2000 misdemeanor cases in a backlog of roughly 5000 such cases.

Is this a one time practical thing, you know, to clear the backlog?

Or have you already turned into your predecessor or your opponent?

It is an absolute one time thing.

When I inherited, when I started this office in January 1st of 2022 was nearly 5000 criminal case backlog, which had been there before the pandemic And so what we have had to do is take a difficult look at that and figure out what is the way to move forward so we can focus on present day referrals for crime happening now.

and not be burdened with looking at the backlog and unable to address current issues being sent over here.

So it is a one time thing that we've had to do with heavy heart to do that because each one of those is a victim.

And we don't want to forget that, but it is a one time thing moving forward to use resources as we have available to focus on presently, referrals for crime happening So should Seattle really rethink our approach to crime or is the real problem that we're too timid or politically correct or whatever the right word is to enforce existing laws It's a fabulous question, Johnny, because it's something again that drove me to become politically active here.

As a mother living in Seattle for twenty five years, when I was faced with the real perspective that something's not working locally, that something was not functioning.

I have the privilege and the honor to be a Seattle city attorney and to understand it from the inside and to really make a difference about that.

So for me, the first part is just to make things function in the way that they were set up to do, which is to communicate with others in that public safety partnership.

I liken it to that of a relay team with a baton passing off because it isn't just me in my office that can I can change it.

Nor is it anyone other in that public safety partnership.

It really has to be with coordination and and dialogue.

And when there was no dialogue occurring before with the county, prosecutor danced out of work in his office or with the Seattle Police Department, there really was just not going to be an improvement on public safety.

What do you mean?

There was no dialogue Don't they have to work together every day with different things?

we do now and but that has not been here before that.

So we have engaged that with our high UTILIZAR initiative that I introduced earlier this year.

We now have weekly meetings and discussion about those difficult issues with the county prosecutor's office, with the King County Jail and with Seattle Police Department.

Again, only by collaborating and having discussions with others involved in public safety.

Will we improve things for the people who live, work and visit City of Seattle Well, since you mentioned the high utilizers, what are what can we actually do about high utilizers?

Some people would call them frequent flyers.

These folks commit a lot of the crime What is the best approach to these?

What I think you've identified something like a hundred and eighteen people who are collectively responsible for twenty four hundred criminal cases over five years How are we going to get at that right when we were able to look at that and understand that there really is a small percentage of people that are involved in this cyclical , frequent, repeated criminal activity in a concentrated amount of time and location.

It is beholden upon us to act.

That, to me, is has two facets.

One, we are allowing people to become victims.

Sometimes repeat victims And so that is not going to be acceptable, as we've heard from the public.

This is not going to be the way forward for businesses, for families, for people and transporting action at parks and roads.

It can't be the way forward.

But second to that , it shows me that there are people that are stuck in a form of human suffering that we have just ignored and allowed to continue in their own self.

destructive behavior and have not seize the opportunity to use that.

When it is that we come in contact with them, we have to start to change the pattern for them and help them to have something other than that.

I want to come back to this in a minute, but first I want to just note the timing of things you've been in office now for four months.

And so what is different for Seattle residents?

as a result of that?

In other words, what do you or we have to show for that time of yours?

Well, I will say that I I have been out in multiple neighborhoods.

I can't even count how many times it is.

Still my favorite thing to do is really to go and listen You do walks with people.

Watch is what I've heard Yeah, I go to neighborhoods.

Anyone who asks, I show up and we go because it really is important for us to feel a sense of connection to those we have put in a place to make decisions for us That's again, as I come from being a mom, raising my kids , just me.

Simply having that conversation with my kids is one thing.

And it's important to do.

But the the people we put in place to make these complicated decisions that we don't have access to, we still have to have a connection to them.

They need to understand our perspective on what we're up against in our day to day lives.

So we do that on a regular basis, which has not been done before.

And I also go to roll calls for our police.

I go at the middle of the night, set my alarm for 2:15 in the morning and gone to precincts at three o'clock in the morning to go and say thank you to people who are there.

Should I need to call 9-1-1 in the middle of the night?

Three o'clock is shift change or something around that time?

I go, I've gone to two of the precincts.

I intend to get to all of them and we'll do that on a as a basis for whatever I say.

I think tonight I can do it right.

I just miss a little sleep We make sounds like you miss much of the night.

Come on Well, that's right.

It's but it really is meaningful And I'll tell you what's so great is I did that one time at the East Precinct and had some dialogue with officers before they went on patrol.

And four hours later, I did one of my walkabouts with a group of women who are downtown Seattle residents.

I have talked to them.

I have been walking with them for years.

So we were on the streets of downtown, on Third Avenue, and they commented about the police units that they were seeing there and how they were so thankful and how they thought that was trying to make a difference on their walks.

And I looked in the car and there was the officer, one of the officers.

I had a conversation with just four hours earlier.

And so it was so fantastic because it really started to make it feel like this is a small town.

It's our town and we really can be impactful in making a difference No more.

Some of those same walks and trips to the neighborhood available to your predecessors as well I certainly can't speak for anyone but me, but I I think it's important I wanted that from my elected leaders So I just focused on trying to be the type of elected leader I was looking for and didn't see available City Attorney Ann Davison Last month, you formally requested that your office be able to prosecute repeat misdemeanor offenders rather than sending these folks to a community court where they get help for some of their specific problems.

Critics say critics of your approach say jail doesn't get some of these really tough underlying problems, and many judges that you asked of this did not agree with you.

So what happens next on that exact part of your plan?

That plan is important , and I think that we will be able to to have that resolved in a way that's going to be meaningful for those individuals.

Again, when we look at what our role is here, as the misdemeanor prosecutor for the city of Seattle, it is our place to to make sure that crime is addressed.

Our laws are our values as a society.

We just that's the reflection of what we value in society as our laws , and they have to be meaningful and they have to matter and means something That's what we all need to see.

Then when we come to individuals that again , that are involved in the cyclical behavior of repeat crimes, The community court is set up for a place for a low level offenses for not frequent contact with the criminal justice system.

And as it is geared for that, and if we use those resources for people other than that, then we are actually diluting them for those individuals where we can see early.

Right.

So now what we're saying is people who have had tens and tens of referrals, that's not the place for that.

We need to be focused on a higher intensity about what is going on for that individual so we can disrupt that cycle of crime and meaningfully intervene.

So So one more follow up to the sort of same point here you folks announced that you're teaming up with the prosecutor's office in King County to follow repeat retail theft offenders Many people are encouraged to see this, but isn't it kind of obvious that the two officers would work together for greater intervention all the time?

Like what?

Why is the special kind of thing That's what I expected and assumed would be happening again.

as someone who very recently was just a member of the general public as well It seems unfathomable that that would not be occurring As I said, I have established that from from day one, this was known to be important because otherwise we cannot improve public safety.

We have to understand what is happening.

It happens in multiple locations Crimes are varying of degrees and severity, and so there has to be communication.

And as well as understanding when when they declined to file what should be a felony under statutory standards, it will become to come to us.

And so we need be able to have communication with them about that.

That's how we start to work together in that public safety partnership.

to improve safety.

So I understand that the jail is still somewhat on covered population limits and partly for that reason cannot take too many misdemeanor referrals.

But the jail recently offered to take 20 repeat offenders, if that's right.

But what I couldn't tell from that is that a one time 20 and then we're done.

Or is that a rolling average, or is it over a period of time And either way, why can't you negotiate more space if the situation warrants it?

Well, it is a difficult situation I understand it's a complex with COVID where what we do with that, but it is important that we understand that jail in and of itself is not the goal.

What the goal is is we have to stop that cycle of crime And when we are seeing people engage and repeat frequent criminal activity, we have to be able to, as a society, intervene , disrupt that and help to change that path for the person and recenter the victims of voices, which has been lost , I think, in recent times.

So we do have that partnership again working there with the King County Jail.

It's important to have that so that Seattle police, when they are going out, can book for those misdemeanor crimes, which account for 80 percent of the crime in the city of Seattle.

It's important to have that so we can make that difference.

But can you explain, though, what the 20 refers to a little better right now?

We are.

We did have to talk about what will what can we do when someone has shown we can show that there are so many referrals that an individual has has brought in the past five years?

We've used criteria of 12 referrals in the past five years and at least one in the past eight months to create that criteria for the UTILIZAR initiative.

And so that is to, as an indicator, someone is engaged in this frequent cycle of criminal activity and we are losing those opportunities to intervene for that individual.

The more we just allow it to occur and don't, don't address it.

In addition to that, we're creating victims.

So that's where we have worked on that partnership with the County Jail and with King County Prosecutor's Office to sometimes aggregate those to be a felony , but to allow us to have the jail bookings for that.

But I still don't know if you mean a one time amount of 20 rolling average or over a period of time.

If you could clarify that for me, it should be ongoing That's what we intend to do because until we understand.

So you could always hit the number of 20, it would be there'd be rolling.

It sounds like it's really three and we need to be able to do what we when we are getting that number of referrals and we see that level of criminal activity.

We have got to be able to have a a reset for the community and for the individual, and that has to be available.

OK, So Mayor Harrell has said many times that he would like to increase the number of police officers, but I interviewed him recently He's he says he only wants the right kind of officer who understands things like de-escalating sensitivity to racial justice.

Are you and the mayor on the same page on this?

Or do you differ in approach to police?

Police staffing?

Well, I don't have any jurisdiction or any authority about that.

That is the mayor's role.

I know.

I know.

I'm just asking for your take since you're going to work closely with them.

Well, obviously we do want we want to have effective police that are understanding what their role is, and that's important.

So that's again, though my my role for what we do here is after we get the police referrals, we then take action on that Yeah, but do you agree with his approach?

The right kind of officer I think it's important that we have people understanding what the landscape is, and I'm not sure there's a strict definition of what the word right means, either.

But I think it's important to to understand that.

Well, I elaborated a little bit that he said that, you know, folks who understand de-escalating and are sensitive to racial justice issues I think that's absolutely important for all of us officers or human humans altogether.

OK, so a quick reminder here for our audience to make sure you had your questions in the chat section.

I'm going to ask some of them you're in a little bit I just wanted to give you time to think of them, write them, put them in their And you have announced a close and time approach to prosecuting cases that come your way.

Can you kindly explained how that might make streets safer?

Yes.

And I think the closer closing time filing that we did announce earlier this year is very important for the public to understand why.

I think that's going to be very instrumental and important on multiple layers For us, what was happening before was cases would get referred in to us from the Seattle Police Department and they would go to the back of the line, which is what then grew to be that backlog.

We talked about earlier.

That was nearly 5000 criminal cases.

And then that backlog, those cases sat for an average of three hundred and thirty four days until this office made a response as to what to do that was under my predecessor And when you just think about that in a commonsense type of way, when there's an action and then the response to that action did not occur until an average of three hundred and thirty four days later, there is really not a connection between those two events.

And so for it to be meaningful and intervene for someone, it needs to have a close and time response to when the criminal activity occurred.

So I made that decision to stop adding cases to the back of the backlog.

And so now that's why we had to do that difficult decision of that one time large declination of cases that had been sitting sometimes almost close to two years and and many of them had already expired because they had sat for too long.

So now do you think there was something like an average on some of those cases of three hundred thirty four days old?

So that makes it tougher to find your witnesses and get where you're going, right?

Exactly the longer a case, that's the harder it is to to prosecute in a successful manner and with the prosecutor resources that we do have, I think it's important that we use those on present day referrals at and not just constantly looking backwards for for a term , you know, a year or more.

So now that closing time filing is that when we get a police referral, we make a response to that and charging decision within five business days And so that really is to me the way we can start to connect the activity to the response that will start to show a different message for those who want to engage in criminal activity here.

There will be a response.

It will be timely.

You won't see one three hundred thirty four days later and and that connection there is the the opportunity to intervene for that individual engage in that activity.

We want to stop that cycle for people that are engaged in that repeat behavior because it's not helpful for them.

It's destructive for them and their future, and it's causing harm to victims at the same time.

So closing in that time gap is just a common sense approach.

It's two to just human behavior.

So I noticed a few weeks ago when Joe Biden was in town on Twitter, just lit up with city state and federal officials all talking about the federal and I know this a little bit outside of city attorney business , but I just want your take on it.

They were talking about the federal safe Banking Act, which would give folks in the marijuana industry the ability to do business by credit card.

And as you know, there's just a ton of crime at some of these places because they know that the folks know that these are largely cash operations But I've written extensively about legalized recreational pot.

We knew, you know, when the state first legalized recreational pot that this banking, we just call it a disconnect would make pot shop employees sitting ducks.

So what is your position on this and what are you willing or able to do about it?

Well, I do acknowledge that it's it's a very difficult situation for employees, and that's really the focus that I have is those that are working in those locations because I have talked with them and heard as well the amount of violence that is involved with their place of work because of the ability for people to come in and to steal.

That's not an acceptable workplace for anyone.

I've heard that on the retail front as well Think the amount of violence that is now being associated with shoplifting is increasing and it is putting employees into a really a dire strait because I've heard of employees talking about having nightmares , a young mom I heard from, you know, waking up at night with nightmares from from events that had occurred at her workplace and that's just not an acceptable workplace.

So yeah, it's it's really is a difficult thing and it's a treacherous thing to try to figure out what to do because it's we cannot allow people to be unsafe at their place of work.

So you mentioned earlier that you did these walking tours.

You went to many different neighborhoods.

What did you learn from those trips?

experiences that maybe confirmed or even changed your view of things out on the streets?

Some Well, I think again, it's important to be accessible to people and and for for people to feel heard Everyone is focused, you know, it's just human nature.

We're all focused on what we have tasked for ourselves for the day.

And sometimes people have a lot of time and sometimes people don't But to have access to someone that you said, we want you to make decisions again, they need to have ability to to be heard.

Their perspectives are important I'm here to represent and be the city attorney for everyone that lives here, so I always want to understand perspectives that I'm unfamiliar with that I don't have to anyone or express myself.

I just think it's important here.

I don't know if I've changed my mind about anything in particular, but I've certainly added to it and understand the same problem that I've been focused on.

like addiction and recovery.

That's been a focal point for me for four years now, and a driving force to lead me here because we are seeing so much human suffering around that.

And so just to hear it from people's perspective, whether they are someone in recovery or how long they've been in recovery, how they got there , or a family member of someone who has someone that is still in addiction That's been a very helpful thing for me as I kind of fill out that hole area that I'm concerned about just getting all this additional perspective.

It's been really helpful for me.

So this might be a little politically dicey.

But anyway, that our politicians either mistakenly or purposely send a message that Seattle is maybe a little bit like San Francisco, where we're , you know, we're a little softer on crime.

I'm asking about the impact of a proposal, something that didn't pass , but that some of the national comedians seem to think did pass talking about Bill more.

But the proposal I'm referring to was put forth by Councilmember Lisa Herbold to basically stop prosecuting certain misdemeanors.

The poverty defense.

Now it didn't pass, but did it send a message to folks in different parts of the country or this part of the country to say, you know, Seattle Well, they'll try other things before they'll actually prosecute Well, I think that when that proposal was made, it was a while ago and that was maybe a focal point of an idea, then I think that was my being here.

I think that's the difference is what Seattle is saying that they do want to have, which again, is the laws are a reflection of our values as a society, and they need to mean something to all of us.

They are just the basic rules by which we've agreed to all live in close proximity and in an urban setting.

We're in a closer proximity.

And so it's it's difficult to then have them mean something to some people and not mean something to other people.

There's certainly a balance in a compassionate way to do so But the they are there because we need to have an understanding of how we engage with one another.

OK, speaking of not prosecuting , there is an initiative in the works that could decriminalize some drug offenses statewide.

How would that affect the work?

you do?

Seattle and King County already pretty much don't jail people for drug crimes.

Well, I think what is most concerning for me is on a just a personal level again, is knowing people firsthand who who are still battling addiction for or whatever it might be and to allow human suffering to continue longer than it really needs to is really just to me.

Deeply saddening.

I I want us to all be reaching out to people and being people's social network and social fabric and making long term relationships with people who have entered into recovery.

So we can be those healthy relationships for them because usually someone's family has been through the wringer.

If someone is in the throes of substance use disorder, and so the rest of us who are outside that unit need to be there and help carry the weight And so to me, when I saw that that was really the first thing I thought of , I see.

So you know, four months isn't really enough time to really know the answer to this, perhaps.

But you have some knowledge and you thought about it when you were running and all of that.

So how will we know what success for your office looks like?

That is?

How will you and the rest of the citizens know that we have made the changes that we needed to make?

What, what, what would that look like I love this question, Johnny, because it really is important to have aspirations with we do.

We have to I'm a long distance runner and a cross fitter and and and having those just those goals, whether it's, you know, you got to do this workout in this amount of time or whatever it is, it sounds like you run faster than me.

And for me, that's why I went to CrossFit because I can run the hours that was necessary.

But it's it's important to have those goals.

And so what we've had here is there's never been a standardized methodology for collecting and analyzing data in the city attorney's office that I have entered.

And so we are building that and it's important for me to have that so that we really can tell internally , is this working?

How do we need to make changes?

Because something is not and how and then open that up for the public to understand what is happening as well, because only by that, only by us having again, that open dialogue with what is working and what is not working and being honest about what is working and not working Will we really see progress for all of us?

And frankly, that's that's the kind of person I wanted to see an office at every level of government.

No, give me an example.

Something changed , and we can all tell that it changed.

And then we can even I don't know, connected somehow to something you did Well, I will say back to the coordination with Dan Sandberg's office that was nonexistent before and that I had that make no sense to me makes me either To me, that was that was difficult to from different films.

You know, philosophical differences.

That was adding a , you know, I could sit here and wonder, but I don't know.

And frankly, it doesn't matter to me.

It was in the past.

I'm focused on going forward and making sure that those partnerships are there because it is the only way we will start to see that improvement.

That you're just asking about in public safety.

If I have any personal grudge or feel territorial possessive about things because of the office I currently hold, that helps no one.

And I really just want to be here to to make sure things are functioning in the way that we intended them to do so that the rest of everyone who needs to tend to their lives right , and that these big social issues that we're all talking about, we can lower the fear and have those important conversations.

That's that's what I want So whatever I can do to help that move along is what I will do Again, that's why the establishing working relationships with those public safety partners is a concrete thing that already started, and we'll continue to do on a regular basis and having that data analysis available to me to make those decisions as to to what do we need to change because this is not working what we thought it would or this is working and we need to make sure we we are informing the public about what is a reasonable amount of time for Seattlelites to wait because they I think they think they elected the three of you who I mentioned at the beginning.

Here you are.

The mayor Mayor Bruce Harrell and city councilwoman Sara Nelson.

So they thought that was going to get them some results on this issue.

Yeah, it seems like I mean, I don't think that's too radical to say that So what's a reasonable amount of time for them to wait to see a few results I'd like to say sooner than later, but again, when I I know that we got here because of the the amount of time that things were just left to languish and being neglected and not function.

So we do have to rebuild things from scratch because they just were not here.

I don't say that for any type of an excuse , but more of a reality check.

But some of it's not difficult, but it has to be done and it has to be reconnected and it has to be functioning.

And again, my rule cannot start until we have those referrals from the Seattle police.

So the understanding the limitations by which each of us can do is important.

And so they all have to be functioning together.

OK, so before we run out of time, I want to make sure we get to some of our audience questions And we'll start with one from Camille who says we see so much mental illness on our streets and so many of the people who are offenders and repeat offenders are really mentally ill. What is your plan to tackle this variant?

POrtant mental illness piece?

Camille, I agree with you that this is a very significant issue and one that cannot be ignored or just simply talked about.

When I talk about the intervention that is necessary.

Sometimes it is in regards to mental illness.

Maybe it's undiagnosed Maybe it is dual diagnosis.

And I am very honest.

I have a deceased uncle who was schizophrenic.

I have one of my best friends who has a brother with bipolar, who they don't live here.

But he's attacked his mother, his own mother.

So this is really difficult because we are allowing again.

So I sometimes I get really emotional about it because we have got to stop ignoring people who are pushed the little margins of our society and we have to have this coordinated, organized effort from people like me at all levels to say we have got to get this right for individuals who have been left to just deteriorate out wherever they are unaddressed.

So when I have the ability to interact with them at the misdemeanor level, we have got to make sure there's a plan for after we had that interaction and I is that is that a plan that you can make happen like I do with my son myself every everywhere I can?

Right.

That's the that's the pieces I can extend myself and say, she's saying, What is your plan to tackle this very important mental illness phase, right?

Well, again, my plan is to extend myself to those who can make those decisions because I cannot make all of those decisions on my own.

But what I can do is make sure that it isn't just there's nothing after I have and I've become in contact with them that my office is in contact with those individuals, that there's just not nothing, which is what has been before.

We need to make sure that there is coordination, whether it is with community partners, with service or whether there is a coordination with needing to get diagnosis and psychiatric care.

We have to be making those connections and those dialogues together at multiple levels And I stand ready to to partner and talk with anyone about that.

OK, from Josh , there's the city attorney's office.

Have enough resources and staff to maintain that closing time policy Are we just going to end up again with a with a backlog Josh, thank you for your question too, because it really is important to understand that it is not typical that nearly 5000 criminal case backlog that I inherited That is not what is typical in a prosecutor's office and that backlog had grown years before.

Is that because of COVID No, there was there before and that it was it was a lot of effort was put back in to get out from underneath it , but there was no internal processes changes and then it started to quickly grow back and then COVID happened and exacerbated it.

And so it was just simply mismanagement from the top because there was not a change in internal processes for things like, I'm talking about that things were put to the back of that queue.

Instead of understand that you have got to keep positive profiling.

So we we are since I started in January, we hired nine prosecutors, so I have put a concerted effort to make sure the criminal division is ready to is not a net plus or does it bring you back to a full capacity?

Try to put that nine and that was vacancies.

Yeah, those that you normally wouldn't be They they were just bringing you back to the level.

That's right.

I focused on making sure we hired.

I was an intimate part of that process so that we could streamline that process and not be bogged down by you longing that we needed to have everyone available and be a staffed col division.

We have maybe a few support staff that we need to fill out , but the the professional resources are there to do that.

We will always need more victim advocates, for example.

We have a lot in domestic violence, but but we only have one for all of the non domestic violence victims, which is a large amount of victims.

And so we we do have the ability to stay close in time , but we we know that we can't control the amount of crime that there is, so we have to be responsive to it.

So that's the difficult part to understand is I can say that now, but we have to get that.

That responded to and get the crime going the other direction.

So from Dean, should cash bail be eliminated Dean, this is also a complicated question because it does involve equitable issues.

And I do acknowledge that because that it should not be that someone simply has the ability to pay should should be released as someone who does not have the ability to pay should not.

It's a complicated question and one that I'm having dialogue with to understand more and that is the most honest answer I can give you today is because it's involves varying things and I'm starting to to have meaningful conversations with my criminal chief now.

Walter Anderson , who had been at the county prosecutor's office for over 20 years and the U.S. Attorney's Office , most recently before I hired her to be the first female criminal division chief here at the City Attorney's Office.

So we are having those conversations and I look forward to being able to address that later OK, so R. Kelly asks, So what are your metrics?

More convictions or less crime Those are not always connected Well, Kelly, yeah, it's I think that if our closing time filing is starts to show that the the action has a connection to a close responds and that message then becomes a deterrent effect, then we will see that reduction in criminal activity at the same time, you know, we we have to all be honest that we are all humans and we we can't control other humans actions.

And I just want to see that we have lowered the sense of fear so that we can have meaningful conversations about other difficult social issues if we are all in that sense of fear.

We don't make best choices for in the end being generous to our neighbors.

And so it's important that we are able to to see it in that way.

So Anonymous says you can't you say you can't control the amount of crime that exists.

What do you think are the causes of crime and what is your plan to support repeat offenders to get them out of the cycle of crime?

As you put it, Well, the first one that did not one of the insults I appreciate that too.

It's I think again, when we show that there is a response to the activity and that our laws are meaningful That is how we start to show that the criminal activity has to be cannot be allowed.

And so that is the way that we can deter it and have an effect on that.

What I said earlier is that we can control this.

We can't control an individual, but we can say as a society, as a message is that that type of activity is not what we want because we have laws that we've agreed to have for us to live together What is the connection, if any, between our possible leniency on drugs or crimes of poverty and the organized crime wave, we are seeing in Seattle today?

Is this your question or are I just didn't know I was.

I was adding a question because because there aren't any more questions.

I'm last one anyway.

So here?

I'm sorry.

Then what do you say that again?

I just did.

What does the connection, if any, between our leniency on drugs or crimes of poverty and the organized crime wave we're seeing today?

Well, I'll tell you a story to answer that question, and I came across a young man named Brandon , who had a twin sister who lives in an area outside of Seattle, and he is addicted to substance and is was unhoused when I met him and talked with him, and he explained how he could not go and stay with the sister because she has young children.

And so he's living on the streets here in Seattle and he told me about how he is given a list of things to go and steal And he brings those back and is then given the substance that he's addicted to.

And so there is a connection to me.

That's a clear connection anyway.

Right, right.

So to hear it from someone and to hear it in his words of how he does is like, I don't want to do this.

I don't want to.

I don't want to live like this.

I don't want to sleep in a place like this.

And so again, that's what I say is all right.

Every time we don't take the opportunity to intervene and say, you can't do that activity , here's what you can do, which is we need to make sure that you're connected in a way that has healthy relationships for you because your sister and her family can't be that for you anymore.

Right?

The rest of us need to step up and take part in that.

And we need to be there for you for like ten years, you know, and agree to be your support network for ten years so that when you need someone to call because you're having a hard day, there's emotional support from someone like me.

When you need someone to call because you don't know how to write the letter for a job application, you can call someone like me.

It isn't just that, it's we need paid people to do that as it's their work.

Maybe it's social work.

I'm saying it's the rest of us willingly choosing to be, and you may in some sort of system that wraps around at the right moment or something like that.

Is that correct, right?

And then again, like people who voluntarily want to use their resource of time, we all have time, talent or treasure and those who have time.

I'm just saying I think that's really important because that is the way we help someone stay in recovery and not re-engage in that cycle.

of human suffering and addiction.

So unfortunately, I think we've run out of time as Davidson.

I want to thank you for joining us today and for sharing your ideas and your thoughts.

It's been a pleasure.

Thank you so much, Joanie.

Thank you.

Thank you.

And thanks to all of you who participated virtually today before I sign off, I want to mention that there have been many terrific sessions at the festival this week, and if you missed any, they are all available for on demand viewing for all attendees And if you want to hear some additional high level talk about mis and disinformation and other threats to democracy, do hang around for Congressman Adam Schiff of California That's today at 4:00 p.m. and thanks for being with us