>> CROSSLEY: WELCOME TO "BASIC BLACK."

SOME OF YOU ARE JOINING US ON OUR BROADCAST AND OTHERS OF YOU ARE JOINING US ON OUR DIGITAL PLATFORMS.

I'M CALLIE CROSSLEY, HOST OF UNDER THE RADAR, 89.7.

TONIGHT: QUIET QUITTING.

IMAGINE A WORKPLACE REBELLION HIDDEN IN PLAIN SIGHT?

IT'S A SILENT REVOLT CALLED QUIET QUITTING-- WORKERS WHO ARE ON THE JOB BUT QUIETLY REFUSE TO DO MORE THAN THE BARE MINIMUM.

SEVERAL SURVEYS CONFIRM MILLIONS OF AMERICAN WORKERS ARE QUIET QUITTERS.

WHITE AMERICAN WORKERS.

EMPLOYEES OF COLOR SAY THEY CAN'T AFFORD TO PULL BACK ON THE JOB.

COULD THE TREND DISRUPT THE WORKPLACE FOR THE BENEFIT OF ALL?

OR WILL QUIET QUITTING INCREASE WORKPLACE INEQUITIES?

JOINING US THIS EVENING: MELISSA JAMES, CHIEF GROWTH OFFICER, IBIS CONSULTING GROUP.

LAUREN HUNTER-DYSON, CHIEF PEOPLE AND DIVERSITY OFFICER, NEW ENGLAND AQUARIUM.

MALIA LAZU, C.E.O.

AND FOUNDER, THE LAZU GROUP AND LECTURER AT THE M.I.T.

SLOAN SCHOOL OF MANAGEMENT.

WELCOME TO YOU ALL.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Reporter: SO A LOT OF CONVERSATION ABOUT THIS IN THE SUMMER FOR TWO REASONS: IN JUNE, GALLUP RELEASED A POLL SAYING THAT MORE THAN HALF OF ALL AMERICAN WORKERS WERE NOT ENGAGED AT WORK.

THEN THE TECHNOLOGY QUIET QUITTING CAME TO BE, AND THEN A TIKTOKER WHO CALLS HIMSELF SAID LEPLIN POSTED A REGULAR TIKTOK THAT SAID, HEY, WHY DO THIS?

JUST DO THE MINIMUM.

IT WENT CRAZY AND THAT SPARKED CONVERSATION ON FORUM AND ONLINE.

THESE QUIET QUITTINGS QUIET QUITE -- QUIET QUITTERS ARE SAYING THESE THINGS ANONYMOUS LOY BECAUSE THEY'RE QUIET QUITTING.

THE IMPACT HAS BEEN DISCUSSED AT THE HIGHEST LEVELS AND WORKPLACES ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

WE'RE INTERESTED HERE BECAUSE AS WE'VE SAID IN THE OPEN IT'S A DIFFERENT PHENOMENON WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT WORKERS OF COLOR.

SO I'M GOING TO START WITH YOU, LAUREN, BECAUSE RIGHT OFF THE TO YOU SAID YOU DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS JUST A MANUFACTURED TERM OR IF IT'S REAL AND THAT, IF, IN FACT, YOU ARE A WORKER DOING WHAT YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO DO WITHIN THE HOURS THAT YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO DO IT, AND THAT'S CONSIDERED SOMEHOW QUIET QUITTING, THAT'S SUPREMACIST IN NATURE.

WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT?

>> I MEAN, SO, HONESTLY, IT IS SUPREMACIST MANY NATURE TO THINK THAT PEOPLE OWE YOU THEIR LABOR FOR FREE.

SO IF YOU POSTED A JOB AND YOU ASKED ME TO COME DO THESE JOBS AND THESE ARE THE TERMS AND THE HOURS, WHY IS IT THE EXPECTATION THAT I DO MORE OUTSIDE OF THOSE HOURS WITHOUT ADDITIONAL COMPENSATION?

SO IN A SENSE YOU'RE ASKING ME TO DO MORE WITHOUT COMPENSATING ME FOR THAT WORK.

YOU KNOW, IT TAKES ME BACK TO WHEN PEOPLE WERE DOING WORK THAT THEY WERE NOT GETTING PAID TO DO.

>> Reporter: EXCEPT HERE'S THE THING, NO GREATER ORGANIZATION HAN THE HARVARD BUSINESS REVIEW HAS SAID THESE EXTRAS -- AND WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS STAYING LATE, DOING YOUR ORGANIZING IN THE OFFICE, COORDINATING THESE TASKS -- THEY CALL THEM CITIZENSHIP BEHAVIORS AND THEY SAY, MALIA, IF COMPANIES WANT A COMPETITIVE EDGE THEY MUST OR EXPECT THAT THEIR EMPLOYEES BE WILLING TO DO THAT.

AND YOU SAY THIS IS OLD STUFF THAT KEEPS HAPPENING.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I MEAN, IF YOU DO NEED TO DO SOME ORGANIZATION, RIGHT, IF YOU DO NEED TO DO SOME STRAIGHTENING UP OR WHATEVER IT MIGHT BE, EVEN TEAM BUILDING, IT STILL SHOULD BE DONE WITHIN THE TIME AND THE HOURS THAT WE HAVE AGREED IN OUR EMPLOYMENT AGREEMENT.

SO, YOU KNOW, THIS IDEA OF, WELL, YOU KNOW, I IMMEDIATE YOU TO STAY LATER BECAUSE YOU WILL, YOU KNOW, BUILD TEAM, MEANS IN OUR CULTURE IS SET UP IN AN UNHEALTHY WAY.

>> Reporter: AND THE FOLKS OF COLOR ARE DOING THESE TASKS A LOT OF TIME.

>> A LOT OF TIMES, AND ALSO FEEL THAT WE CANNOT QUIETLY QUIT, AS YOU SAID.

I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR US TO REMEMBER THAT, WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT WHAT WE'RE ASKING OF OUR WORKERS, THAT TO BURDEN THEM -- YOU KNOW, I LOVE THE TERM YOU USED, LAUREN, IT'S SUPREMACIST, THIS IDEA.

AND, SO, WHILE IT MIGHT BE EASIER FOR WHITE, YOU KNOW, EMPLOYEES TO QUIETLY QUIT, I THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT EVERY WORKER BE AWARE OF WHAT HARE GETTING PAID TO DO, AND I KNOW, AS A BOSS, YOU KNOW, I SIT DOWN WITH MY EMPLOYEES AND SAY, OKAY, WHAT CAN WE GET DONE, RIGHT SOMEBECAUSE IF WE CAN'T GET EVERYTHING DONE THIS MONTH OR IF YOU NEED AN EXTRA DAY OR TWO BECAUSE YOU'RE WORKING THIS WEEKEND, WE'RE GOING TO FIGURE THAT OUT.

YOU KNOW, SO I DO THINK IT'S REALLY INCUMBENT ON A GOOD MANAGER TO MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE ARE WORKING WHERE AND HOW THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO IN A HEALTHY WAY, AND P THEY'RE NOT DOING IT, THEN YOU'RE MOTT MANAGING IT RIGHT.

>> Reporter: SO CERTAINLY -- AND WE'RE GOING TO COME BACK TO THIS REALIGNMENT OF THE EMPLOYEE-EMPLOYER RELATIONSHIP, BUT, MELISSA, CULTURALLY, WHAT'S BEEN BREAD INTO EMPLOYEES OF COLOR IS THAT YOU MUST DO MORE, YOU HAVE TO WORK TWICE AS HARD AND, IF YOU DON'T, WELL, YOU'RE NEVER GOING TO GET ANYWHERE, AND THAT ACTUALLY HAS PLAYED OUT FOR MOST FOLKS, SO RESPOND TO THAT.

>> YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT, SO MANY TIMES, WHEN WE CAME INTO THE WORKPLACE AND WANTED TO PROVE OUR WORTH, PRODUCTIVITY WAS A WAY TO MEASURE OUR WORTH AND BEING ABLE TO SHOWCASE THAT TO YOUR MANAGER, I I THINK WE ALL BELIEVED THAT WE WOULD GET REWARDED FOR THAT.

WHEN WE REALIZED THAT MAYBE NOT, ACTUALLY THE POLITICS BEHIND WHAT HAPPENS WITHIN A WORKPLACE MAY AFFECT WHETHER OR NOT I GET MY REWARD.

I THINK FOR MANY EMPLOYEES THEY STARTED TO QUESTION, AM I BEING RECOGNIZED FOR THE CONTRIBUTIONS THAT I BRING, AND WITH COVID, I THINK MANY PEOPLE ARE STARTING TO RE-THINK WHAT IS MY CONTRIBUTION TO THE WORKPLACE AND WILL I BE VALUED AND RESPECTED FOR THE THINGS I DO.

SO I THINK THERE'S A MIND SHIFT CHANGE HAPPENING HERE AND ONE THAT'S IMPORTANT TO KNOW IN CALLING LEADERS IN TO BE MORE EMOTIONALLY INTELLIGENT WHEN WORKING WITH EMPLOYEES.

>>.>> Crossley: THIS PIECE OF WORKING HARD IS SO ENGRAINED IN COMMUNITIES OF COLOR THAT WAY BACK WHEN WE MADE A JOKE OF IT.

IN THIS SKETCH FROM THE 1990s HIT COMEDY SHOW, "IN LIVING COLOR" POKES FUN AND ILLUSTRATES THE MANY JOBS HELD BY THE HARDEST WORKING WEST INDIAN FAMILY, THE HEADLEY'S.

TAKE A LOOK.

>> HEY, NOW, MAN, HOW MANY TIMES I HAVE TO TELL YOU NOT TO PUT YOUR UNIFORMS ON MY GOOD SOFA?

>> DON'T YELL AT ME WOMAN, I'LL DROP MY UNIFORM WHEREVER I WANT.

I WORKED 15 JOBS.

I DON'T HAVE TIME FOR YOUR FOOLISHNESS.

I'M TIRED DAMN IT.

>> LISTEN, YOU THINK YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE WHO WORK HARD?

I GOT NINE JOBS MYSELF YOU KNOW, PLUS I HAVE TO DO ALL THE COOKING AND THE CLEANING, THE WASHING AROUND HERE AND NOT TO MENTION THE WELDING.

>> Reporter: HOW THAT'S FUNNY, BUT IT GETS AT -- NOW, MELISSA, YOU SAID YOU WORKED TWO JOBS BECAUSE THAT WAS INGRAINED IN YOU, YOU HAD TO WORK TWO JOBS.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

I AM WEST INDIAN SO I RESONATE VERY MUCH SO WITH THAT SCENE AND THAT'S WHAT I SAW GROWING UP.

BOTH MY MOM AND DAD WORKED TWO JOBS TO PUT FOOD ON THE TABLE.

THEY HAD FOUR KIDS AND WERE TRYING TO FIND OUT HOW TO MAKE ENDS MEET.

THEY WERE NEW TO AMERICA AND THAT'S WHAT THEY KNEW HOW TO DO, WORK HARD.

I THINK THE NEXT GENERATION, BEING ABLE TO GO TO COLLEGE, BEING ABLE TO HAVE THE ABILITY TO CHOOSE DIFFERENT TYPES OF JOBS, I THINK I HAD TO QUESTION DO I NEED TO WORK TWO JOBS IN ORDER TO BE SUCCESSFUL?

I DON'T HAVE ANY CHILDREN, I DON'T HAVE TO PROVIDE FOR A FAMILY.

DO I NEED TO CONTINUE ON THIS WAY OR IS THERE ANOTHER WAY THAT I COULD PRESENT AND MOVE FORWARD?

AND IT TOOK ME A LONG TIME AND IT WAS A MANAGER PULLING ME ASIDE AND SAYING WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS?

YOU DON'T NEED TO.

YOU HAVE BENEFITS HERE, GOOD COMPENSATION HERE.

YOU CAN JUST WORK ONE JOB AND THAT'S OKAY.

>> Crossley: IF WE'RE WORKING ONE JOB, HOWEVER, MARIA, AND NOT BEING -- MALIA AND NOT COMPLETELY VALUED IN THE WORKSPACE, HOW DO WE GET AROUND THIS?

MOST FOLKS OF COLOR ARE NOT QUIET QUITTING BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE THEY HAVE TO DEMONSTRATE THEIR WORTH BY BEING THE ONES THAT ARE THE ORGANIZING, THE COORDINATING, THE STAYING LATE, AND DOING THE OTHER JOB, THEY CAN'T AFFORD TO DO THE BARE MINIMUM.

SO HOW DO YOU GET PAST WHAT MELISSA HAD TO STRUGGLE THROUGH AND, YOU KNOW, GET THE ATTENTION OF THE BOSSES AND CONTINUE YOUR UPWARD TRAJECTORY, WE HOPE?

>> I THINK THE QUESTION IS CAN WE, RIGHT?

>> Crossley: YES.

AND IS IT POSSIBLE FOR US TO DO THAT.

NOW, I BELIEVE, RIGHT, THAT THE WAY WE DO IT IS, YOU KNOW, I'M LOVING THE MOVEMENT OF THIS BLACK FOCUS MOMENT OF THE MOST REVOLUTIONARY HINGE BLACK PEOPLE COULD DO IS TAKE A NAP, RIGHT, AND AS YOU'RE LOOKING AT HER WORK, YOU'RE SAYING, SHE'S RIGHT, IF BLACK PEOPLE DECIDED TO TAKE A NAP ONE DAY, THE ECONOMY WOULD BE A VERY DIFFERENT PLACE, AND, SO, I THINK, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A LONG HISTORY OF LABOR ORGANIZING, RIGHT, OF TALKING, AND I THINK WE NEED TO HAVE THIS DISCUSSION BECAUSE, AS YOU SAID AND AS MELISSA'S EXAMPLE SO BEAUTIFULLY POINT OUT,IST MANY OUR HEAD.

SO WHO KNOWS IF WE CLAIM SOMETHING DIFFERENT, WHAT MIGHT BE CLAIMED IN PLACE, RIGHT, OF US CLAIMING SOMETHING DIFFERENT, AND I THINK -- I KNOW FOR ALL OF US THE IDEA OF NOT WORKING HARD, WE'RE SETTING OURSELVES UP FOR FAILURE, RIGHT?

THERE'S SO MUCH ABOUT OUR VALUE THAT STUCK IN OUR HARD WORK, AND I THINK WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO DECOUPLE OUR -- THE FACT THAT WE -- YOU KNOW, WE DEFINE OUR VALUE AND HOW HARD WE WORK AND HOW HAPPY ARE OUR BOSSES AND ALL THOSE THINGS.

THE FINAL THING I WANT TO SAY ABOUT THAT, AND IT'S A LITTLE OFF TOPIC, BUT I THINK ABOUT THE CONVERSATION WE'RE HAVING WITH THE N.F.L., AND I HEARD A PLAYER SAY I MAY GET CONCUSSIONS AND THIS AND THAT, BUT I'M PROVIDING FOR MY FAMILY.

I THOUGHT TO MYSELF, WELL, YOU'RE PROVIDING FOR YOUR FAMILY BUT THERE MIGHT BE ANOTHER MAN RAISING YOUR CHILDREN, RIGHT?

AND I THINK WE -- BEING ABLE TO SAY I'M PROVIDING FOR MY FAMILY AND WE GO, THAT'S RIGHT, THAT'S RIGHT, BUT HOW ARE WE REINFORCING THESE FEELINGS?

I HOPE WE CAN QUIET QUIT, BUT I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR US TO TRY AND TO HAVE THAT CONVERSATION.

>> Crossley: OKAY, LAUREN.

WELL, HERE'S SOMETHING THAT A LOT OF FOLKS OF COLOR ARE FAMILIAR WITH AND DIDN'T HAVE H TERM, BUT A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT QUIET FIRING, MEANING THAT YOUR VALUE WASN'T APPRECIATED, SO YOU'RE PASSED OVER FOR PROMOTIONS, YOU DIDN'T GET THE LONG, OVERDUH PROMOTION YOU SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN, OR YOUR PER PERFORMANCE REVIEW IS BIAS, AND BY THAT I DON'T MEAN -- NOW, WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT FOLKS, LET'S BE CLEAR, ABOUT FOLKS WHO DIDN'T DO THE JOB, WHO CAN'T DO THE JOB.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE WHO DID DO THE JOB AND COMING TO THE PERFORMANCE REVIEW ALREADY BUILT-IN BY YASUO THAT NECESSARILY PUTS THEM BEHIND.

HOW ARE WE NAVIGATING THAT SPACE BECAUSE MALIA IS RIGHT BECAUSE HERE WE ARE IN REALITY.

>> THIS IS A TWO-PRONGED APPROACH, EMPLOYERS NEED TO BE MINDFUL OF HOW THEY'RE DOING PERFORMANCE PROCESSES AND BUILDING THE EQUITY PIECE INTO THAT POSITION.

AS EMPLOYEES IF WE WANT TO PROTECT OURSELVES AND SAY THESE ARE ALL THE THINGS WE DO, AND SOMETIMES IT IS ABOUT THE DOCUMENTATION, BEING ABLE TO SHOW UP AND SAY THESE ARE THE THINGS I DID, SO WHAT DO I NEED TO CONTINUE TO SHOW IF I WANT TO BE PROMOTED, AND THAT'S REALLY CHALLENGING TO DO FOR SOME PEOPLE, BUT IT'S ONE OF THE ONLY WAYS TO MAKE IT HAPPEN.

BUT THE ONUS HERE NEEDS TO BE ON THE EMPLOYERS.

>> Crossley: AND NOT ON THE WORKERS.

>> YES.

>> Crossley: RIGHT NOW THE WORKERS HAVE BEEN CARRYING IT.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> Crossley: AND CERTAINLY THE WORKERS OF COLOR HAVE BEEN CARRYING IT.

>> ABSOLUTELY, AND THIS IS THE JOB OF TO EMPLOYER TO MAKE SURE THEIR PROCESSES ARE EQUITABLE AND PEOPLE CAN SHOW UP AND DO THEIR BEST AND BE VALUED AND RESPECTED FOR THAT.

>> Crossley: MELISSA YOU INTRODUCED THE GENERATIONAL GAP AND THE WORKING YOUR PARENTS HAD TO DO AND YOUR MANAGER TELLING YOU, HEY, WAIT A MINUTE, YOU'RE IN A DIFFERENT SPACE, AND GUESS WHAT'S DRIVING A LOT OF THE QUIET QUITTING AND WHETHER OR NOT IT'S REAL IN WHERE THE -- REAL IN THE WAY PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT IT ARE THE THE GEN ZERS AND MILLENNIALS.

HARRIS SAID WHEN SHE STARTED THE BOSSES WOULD SAY I IMMEDIATE YOU TO JUMP AND THEY WOULD SAY HOW HIGH.

NOW YOU SAY IT AND THE EMPLOYEE SAYS WHY?

IT'S A NEW THING.

SO THEY'RE DRIVING SOMETHING, FOLKS OF COLORS WHO ARE MILLENNIALS AND GEN ZERS CAN SAY WHY.

>> I AM A MILLENNIAL AND WHY IS A BIG QUESTION FOR ME.

IT NEEDS TO BE SIGNIFICANT AND HAVE IMPACT.

ANYTHING THAT'S GOING TO CAUSE ME TO DO MORE, I WANT TO KNOW WHAT IS THE GOAL WE'RE LOOKING TO ACHIEVE, AND, FOR ME, THAT IS IMPORTANT TO THE WORK I DO, SO IT'S OKAY FOR US TO QUESTION WHY AND FOR US TO HAVE A DIALOGUE AND OF THE CONVERSATION.

I THINK SO MUCH OF THIS IS REALLY ACTUALLY CAUSING US TO HAVE MORE CONVERSATION.

A LOT OF WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THE WORKPLACE IS WHERE PEOPLE ARE FEELING THIS -- WHERE THEY HAVE THIS INTENTION THAT THEY THINK THEY'RE COMING INTO A CONVERSATION, THINKING THAT IT'S OKAY TO HAVE THIS CONVERSATION, I WANT YOU TO DO MORE WORK, AND HEN WHAT WE ARE REALIZING IS THAT THE IMPACT THAT IT HAS ON AN EMPLOYEE IS QUITE DIFFERENT.

WHEN YOU'RE ASKING THEM TO DO MORE WORK, THE IMPACT OF THAT AND WHAT MY DAY-TO-DAY WILL BE LIKE, THE STRESS I WILL GO THROUGH AND THE OBLIGATIONS I ALREADY HAVE AND MY HOME LIFE ARE ALL COMING THROUGH MY MIND WHEN YOU'RE ASKING TO DO MORE WORK.

SO HOW DO I BRING THAT UP?

HOW DO I HAVE THAT CONVERSATION WITH MY MANAGER TO SAY, I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, I WANT TO KNOW WHY, I WANT TO KNOW THE OBJECTIVE THAT YOU'RE LOOKING TO ACCOMPLISH, AND I NEED TO ALSO VOICE TO YOU THAT IT MIGHT BE A LITTLE BIT TOO MUCH FOR ME TO TAKE ON RIGHT NOW BECAUSE I HAVE COMPETING PRIORITIES OR OTHER THINGS THAT ARE HAPPENING IN MY LIFE AND I'M SIMPLY NOT PRESENT TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT.

SO FOR ME IT'S AN IMPORTANT CONVERSATION.

IT'S A DIFFICULT ONE BECAUSE IT REQUIRES BOTH PARTIES TO BE VULNERABLE AND TO START PULLING BEHIND THAT CURTAIN TO SAY, HEY, I CAN DO IT, I WANT TO DO IT, BUT I NEED A LITTLE BIT MORE FLEXIBILITY AND UNDERSTANDING.

>> CAN I SAY I THINK THE POINT MELISSA BRINGS UP IS SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE, AGAIN, IT'S MOTTNOT THE EMPLOYEE'S JOB TO ASK WHY, IT'S THE MANAGER'S JOB TO EXPLAIN THE CONTEXT OF THE ASSIGNMENT AS THEY'RE GIVING IT.

I THINK PART OF WHAT WE'RE SEEING AND MAYBE HAVING COME OF AGE IN THE NON-PROFIT COMMUNITY WHERE WE MADE SURE EVEN BACK IN THE '90s THAT OUR EMPLOYEES WERE RESPECTED AND THAT LABOR WAS RESPECTED, THE IDEA YOU WOULD TELL AN EMPLOYEE TO JUMP OR TO MAKE A COPY, OR TO DO ANYTHING, BUT NOT EXPLAIN WHAT THAT VALUE IS, HOW IT HELPS WITH HOW WE'RE MOVING FORWARD AND, YOU KNOW, HOW IT ALLOWS FOR POSITIONS OF LEADERSHIP, RIGHT, ALL OF THOSE THINGS.

I THINK WHAT'S HAPPENING IS WE'RE SEEING MILLENNIALS AND YOUNGER RESPOND TO LAZY MANAGEMENT, RIGHT, AND TO SHORT CUTTING MANAGEMENT.

I AM THE BOSS, I DON'T HAVE TO EXPLAIN ANYTHING TO YOU.

EVERYONE SHOULD QUIET QUIT ON YOU IF THAT'S HOW YOU'RE FEELING IN YOUR MANAGEMENT.

YOU KNOW, WHAT WE SEE WITH THE CLIENTS WE WORK WITH IS, YOU KNOW, EMPLOYEE SURVEYS OR THE CONVERSATIONS WILL BE GREAT, BUT THEN WHEN YOU ACTUALLY DIG DOWN, WHAT YOU SEE IS IT'S HAT INDIVIDUAL MANAGER -- THAT INDIVIDUAL MANAGER THAT REALLY IS THE QUALITY OF LIFE.

SO I THINK THIS IDEA -- YOU KNOW AND IT IS GREAT MILLENNIALS HAVE A VOICE AND SAY THING AS A JEN GEN XER I WASN'T RAISED TO SAY.

SO IT IS IMPORTANT EMPLOYEES UNDERSTAND EVERY BIT OF THE ASSIGNMENT.

>> Crossley: I'M GOING TO PUT IT BACK ON RACIAL TERMS, A SURVEY DONE BY BAMBI H.R.

ALLEN JONES, BLACK AND LATINO, 44% OF BLACK AND INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF COLOR EXPERIENCE BURNOUT, 81% EXPERIENCE OBSTACLES IN UPWARD MOBILITY.

I'M TAKING EVERYTHING YOU'VE SAID TO HEART, HOW DOES THIS DISCUSSION IMPACT AND INFLUENCE DIVERSITY AND INCLUSION, LAUREN?

>> OBVIOUSLY, THIS IS A CONVERSATION ABOUT REALLY RECIPROCITY.

I WANT TO FEEL LIKE I AM GIVING MY LABOR TO AN EMPLOYER WHO IS ALSO IN RETURN KIND OF INVESTING IN ME.

CONVERSATION FOR PEOPLE OF COLOR IS AM I GOING TO BE VALUED AND RESPECTED FOR WHO I AM IN A PROFESSIONALLY AUTHENTIC WAY AND IS THIS EMPLOYER GOING TO DO FOR ME WHAT I AM DOING FOR THEM?

WE HAVE TO SHOW UP THAT WAY AND I THINK WE HAVE TO CONTINUE TO DO THAT AS EMPLOYERS.

>> Crossley: DO YOU WORRY ABOUT THE QUIET QUITTING HAVING SOME KIND OF BACKLASH EFFECT ON THE EMPLOYEES WHO ARE LEFT, DON'T FEEL LIKE THEY CAN DO THAT, AND THEY OFTEN ARE FOLKS OF COLOR?

>> SO I DO WORRY ABOUT BACKLASH ON EMPLOYEES BUT I THINK THE BACKLASH IS MORE DESERVING FOR THE MANAGEMENT.

AGAIN, IT'S LAZY MANAGEMENT, WHY IS YOUR EMPLOYEE QUIET QUITTING AND WHY WEREN'T YOU ABLE TO RECOGNIZE IT BEFORE IT HAPPENED?

A LOT OF MANAGERS SOMETIMES DON'T EVEN KNOW WHO THEIR EMPLOYEES ARE, WHAT'S GOING ON IN THEIR PERSONAL LIVES, BECAUSE YOU NEED TO KNOW WHO A PERSON IS IF YOU PROPERLY LEAD THEM.

>> Crossley: MELISSA.

I AGREE THE EMOTIONAL INTELLIGENCE FOR A MANAGER TO BUILD RAPPORT AND TRUST IS IMPORTANT.

THAT'S WHAT GETS US THROUGH THE HARD MOMENT, WHEN WE KNOW THERE'S A BIG PROJECT COMING UP, EVERYBODY HAS TO PULL THEIR SLEEVES UP, WE HAVE TO CONTRIBUTE.

IT'S HAVING THE REPORT AND TRUST TO KNOW THIS PERSON CARES ABOUT MY WELL BEING, THEY'RE INTERESTED IN SETTING ME UP FOR SUCCESS.

THIS COULD BE A GROWTH OPPORTUNITY WHERE WE COULD GROW AND LEARN A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT YOUR LEADERSHIP STYLE.

SO I DO THINK THERE IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR US TO HAVE A CONVERSATION ABOUT, WILL THIS SET ME UP FOR SUCCESS BEYOND THIS PROJECT?

WHAT WILL THAT LOOK LIKE, IF I WANT TO BECOME A MANAGER MYSELF, OR IF I WANT TO BECOME A SENIOR LEADER, CAN WE HAVE THAT CONVERSATION?

SO OFTEN, IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE OPEN THAT SPACE UP AND HAVE THE DIALOGUE, BECAUSE IF YOU'RE JUST TELLING ME I'M GOING TO DO MORE WORK FOR THE SAKE OF MORE WORK, I'M NOT INTERESTED.

BUT IF YOU'RE TELLING ME I'M GOING TO DO MORE WORK BECAUSE I THINK IT'S GOOD OPPORTUNITY FOR YOU AND GOOD VISIBILITY THROUGHOUT THE ORGANIZATION AND I SEE YOU HAVE REALLY GREAT TALENT AND I THINK UNITED KINGDOM DO REALLY WELL IN WHATEVER FIELD YOU'RE LOOKING TO GO INTO IT.

LET'S TRY IT OUT AND YOU ASK QUESTIONS AS WE GO THROUGH IT.

I THINK THE TERM "MANAGER" SHOULD CHANGE AND BE CALLED COACHES BECAUSE AT THE END OF THE AT A YOU'RE COACHING AND SETTING PEOPLE UP FOR SUCCESS.

THAT'S WHAT DID A GOOD MANAGER DOES.

>> Crossley: WE MOW THE SUCCESS OF ANY BUSINESS IS INCUMBENT ON LEADERSHIP FIGURING OUT HOW TO HAVE THIS INTERACTION WITH EMPLOYEES.

MALIA, IMPACT ON DIVERSITY AND INCLUSION.

>> IF IT'S IN AMERICAN CAPITALISM, IT WOULD NEGATIVELY IMPACT PEOPLE OF COLOR, BLACK PEOPLE IN PARTICULAR, BLACK WOMEN PROBABLY THE MOST, RIGHT, AND, SO, I THINK, YOU KNOW, IT GIVES US A CHANCE TO CIRCLE UP AND SAY, OKAY, HOW ARE WE GOING TO REALIGN OUR STUFF, RIGHT?

HOW ARE WE GOING TO START REJECTING SOME OF THESE NOTIONS?

AND, YOU KNOW, I GO BACK TO THE MARTIN LUTHER KING MEMPHIS MARCH, RIGHT, AND HOSE SIGNS, I AM A MAN.

I THINK US REMINDING OURSELVES THAT WE ARE NOT BEASTS OF BURDEN, BUT THAT WE ARE HUMAN BEINGS, WILL ALLOW US TO REIGNITE OUR FORM OF A LABOR MOVEMENT AND ALSO, YOU KNOW, WE MIGHT NOT DO QUIET QUITTING.

WE MIGHT DO IT IN A DIFFERENT WAY, BUT I LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING HOW WE'RE DOING IT BECAUSE IT'S PROBABLY GOING TO HAVE GREAT FOOD, MUSIC AND COLORS TO IT.

>> Crossley: AND, SO, YOU STARTED WITH SUPREMACISTS, LAUREN, IN THIS DISCUSSION, AND I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT, WE'VE SAID IT SOMEWHATO BLOKELY BUT LET'S BE DIRECT, A LOT OF A LOT OF WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS HISTORICAL LINKAGES TO ENSLAVEMENT.

>> EVEN CALLING IT QUIET QUITTING IS AN ADDAGE BACK TO THAT TERM, WHY ARE WE CALLING IT QUITTING IF PEOPLE ARE NOT QUITTING AND THEY'RE DOING WHAT'S BEING ASKED AND EXPECTED OF THEM?

IT'S NOT CALLED QUITTING BECAUSE IT BENEFITS CERTAIN PEOPLE AND THE INSTITUTION SO WE'RE GOING TO CALL IT SOMETHING TO MAKE IT NEGATIVE EVEN THOUGH IT'S NOT WHAT WAS SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN IN THE FIRST PLACE.

>> Crossley: IN YOUR CONSULTING, MELISSA, DID YOU SEE THE GREAT RESIGNATION IMPACTING A LOT OF FOLKS OF COLOR, THEY JUST SAID, THIS WASN'T QUIET, I'M OUT?

>> YEAH, LAS VEGAS A LOT THAT HAPPENED AND WE'RE STILL GOING THROUGH IT.

IT'S STILL NOT QUITE OVER, BUT I CERTAINLY THINK PEOPLE WERE CALLED INTO FIGURING OUT HOW DO I FIT INTO THIS ORGANIZATION?

I NOW WENT FROM, IN 2020, IN THE PANDEMIC MANY PEOPLE WENT REMOTE, AND NOW THEY HAVE OBLIGATIONS AT HOME HAT THEY WERE FULFILLING MORE AND BEING MORE PRESENT WITH, AND THEY LIKED IT.

SO I DO THINK THERE IS CERTAINLY A CONVERSATION HAPPENING NOW WHERE PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT DO WE STAY AND DO THE THINGS THAT WE DID BEFOREHAND, OR DO I ADJUST TO THE NEW CHANGES THAT HAVE HAPPENED?

AND I THINK THAT'S WHERE THIS HYBRID WORK ENVIRONMENT IS COMING FROM WHERE STRONG PLAYERS ARE SAYING I'M A STRONG PLAYER, I WANT TO STAY HERE, BUT I ALSO NEED YOU TO HAVE FLEXIBILITY AND UNDERSTANDING I NEED TO ADJUST A LITTLELITTLE BIT MORE IN THIS WORK ENVIRONMENT, CAN YOU ADAPT TO THAT.

SO I DO THINK IT AFFECTED DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES AND I THINK PEOPLE ARE BEING MORE VOCAL.

I'M A MOM, I HAVE KID AT HOME, ID NEED YOU TO UNDERSTAND THAT, I WANT TO BE AT HOME SO I CAN PICK THEM UP FROM SCHOOL.

THAT'S IMPORTANT.

>> Crossley: IN THE END, DO YOU THINK THIS WILL INCREASE WORKPLACE INEQUITIES, MALIA?

>> THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.

KNOWING WHO CAN QUIET QUIT AND WHO CAN NOT, I THINK IT ABSOLUTELY WILL AFFECT WORK INEQUITIES, AND THAT'S WHY I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE HAVE OUR ANSWERS, RIGHT, AND HAT WE UNDERSTAND WHAT WE'RE DOING TO PROTECT OURSELVES.

I ALSO THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE SEEING A RISE IN, YOU KNOW, -- LED BUSINESSES.

AND HOPEFULLYHOUSE A MORE DIVERSE ECONOMY THAT HAS A CULTURAL PERSPECTIVE ON WHAT A HEALTHY WORK ENVIRONMENT LOOKS LIKE.

BUT I THINK IN THE IMMEDIATE FUTURE, IT'S GOING TO PUT A LOT MORE BURDEN ON THE PEOPLE WHO DON'T FEEL LIKE THEY CAN QUIET QUIT TO PICK UP THE WORK OF THE OTHERS.

>> Crossley: LAUREN.

I AGREE.

I THINK IT CAN LEAD TO INEQUITIES IN THE WORKPLACE BECAUSE FOR THOSE WHO DO QUIET QUIT, THERE WILL BE THOSE WHO DON'T, AND THOSE PEOPLE WILL CONTINUE TO GET ALL THE BENEFITS AND ACCOLADES BECAUSE THEY WILL CONTINUE TO PUT IN MORE.

AND IF THIS KIND OF REVOLUTION WILL BENEFIT EVERYONE, EVERYONE HAS TO PARTICIPATE IN IT.

>> Crossley: MELISSA.

I THINK PEOPLE HAVE A LOT OF ENERGY INSIDE OF THEM AND THEY JUST WANT TO BE REWARDED AND ACKNOWLEDGED.

I WONDER WHETHER OR NOT PEOPLE WILL TAKE THAT ENERGY AND APPLY IT OUTSIDE OF WORK.

CAN I APPLY IT TO STARTING A NEW BUSINESS ONLINE, A HOBBY THAT I CARE MORE ABOUT?

IF WE'RE NOT CAREFUL IN THE MOMENT THAT E.R.

WE'RE IN NOW, I THINK WE'LL LOSE A A LOT OF HIGH-POTENTIAL EMPLOYEES THAT WANT TO BE APPRECIATED.

IF I'M NOT APPRECIATED I WILL TAKE MY WORK TO SOMEPLACE ELSE THAT I CARE ABOUT.

THERE ARE PLENTY OF WAYS TO MAKE MONEY IN THE GIG ECONOMY AND WITH ACCESS TO YOM PLATFORMS, IT'S EASY AND INTERESTING TO START A BUSINESS AND IT'S FUN.

WE'RE IN A DELICATE MOMENT WHERE WE HAVE TO BE AWARE THAT THAT ENERGY CAN GO IN MULTIPLE DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS AND WE NEED TO BE MINDFUL OF THAT.

>> Crossley: IS THIS A PIVOTAL MOMENT WHERE WE LOOK BACK AND SAY THIS IS THE TIME?

>> OH, MY FOR, ABSOLUTELY.

I FEEL LOST A CASE STUDY IN HOW WE WORK TOGETHER THAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN, AND I'M SURE PLENTY OF SCIENTISTS ARE THINKING ABOUT HOW DOES EMOTIONAL INTELLIGENCE, WORKPLACE ENVIRONMENTS AND INCLUSIVE LEADERSHIP ALL COME TOGETHER IN THIS ONE MOMENT?

WE ARE REDEFINING HOW WE WORK RIGHT NOW TODAY, AND I'M SURE, 20 YEARS FROM NOW, WE'RE GOING TO BE, LIKE, THAT WAS THE MOMENT IT HAPPENED.

>> Crossley: LAUREN.

I THINK, YES, FOR EVERYONE WHO IS QUIET QUITTING, YOU WILL NOTICE THEY MAY BE POURING THEIR ENERGY INTO SOMETHING THEY LOVE AND DESIRE LIKE THEIR PASSIONS.

AT ONE POINT PEOPLE WERE PASSIONATE ABOUT THEIR WORK BUT THEY FELT UNDERVALUED.

AND IF WE CAN BRING MORE FUN BACK INTO THE WORK, YOU WILL SEE IT POURED BACK INTO THE WORKPLACE BUT UNTIL THAT HAPPENS IT WILL BE A DEFINING MOMENT.

>> Crossley: DEFINING MOMENT?

YEAH, WORKFORCE AND LABOR CAPITALISM IS BEING REDEFINED BECAUSE WE'RE BEING REDEFINED RIGHT NOW.

SO I THINK, AS WE'RE SEEING WITH COVID AND QUARANTINE AND WAR AND ALL OF THESE THINGS, THAT PEOPLE ARE SORT OF LOOKING, I MEAN, HOW AM I GOING TO PURSUE MY HAPPINESS?

SO I THINK WE'RE ABSOLUTELY IN A MOMENT OF REDEFINITION AND THE ECONOMY AND HOW WE RUN OUR ECONOMY ON LABOR IS GOING TO HAVE TO BE REDEFINED AND COMPANIES WHO DO IT QUICK AND DO IT -- YOU KNOW, DO IT WELL WILL BE ABLE TO RETAIN TALENT MOVING TO THE NEXT 75 YEARS WE HAVE IN THIS CENTURY.

>> I'VE GOT A FEW SECONDS.

DID IT REDEFINE YOU?

>> QUIET QUITTING?

>> Crossley: MM-HMM.

NO, I'M STILL WORKING ON IT BUT THAT'S BETWEEN ME AND MY -- (LAUGHTER) >> Crossley: DID IT REDEFINE YOU?

>> YES.

I HAD TO TAKE BACK MY AGENCY AND SAID I CANNOT DO THIS.

>> Crossley: MELISSA.

MY POWER HOURS ARE BETWEEN 10:00 AND 1:00.

I GET MY BEST IDEAS THEN >> CROSSLEY: THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

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