>>WHEN IT COMES TO ISSUES FACING THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY IN CENTRAL FLORIDA, THERE ARE IMPORTANT, SOMETIMES DIFFICULT, CONVERSATIONS TO BE HAD, CONVERSATIONS THAT DO MORE THAN ADDRESS THE CHALLENGES, BUT ALSO PRESENT OPPORTUNITIES FOR BREAKING THE CYCLE.

HELLO, I'M STEVE MORT, AND WELCOME TO THE LATEST IN OUR NEWS NIGHT CONVERSATION SERIES, BREAKING THE CYCLE, LOOKING AT KEY ISSUES FACING CENTRAL FLORIDA'S AFRICAN AMERICAN FAMILIES.

WE RECENTLY HELD A SERIES OF LISTENING SESSIONS WITH BLACK COMMUNITY LEADERS TO FIND OUT WHAT THEY FELT WERE THE ISSUES WE SHOULD BE TALKING ABOUT.

OVERWHELMINGLY, THEY TOLD US THEY WANTED TO HEAR MORE ABOUT SOLUTIONS TO SOME OF THE SYSTEMIC PROBLEMS FACING THE COMMUNITY.

IN TONIGHT'S DISCUSSION, WE ADDRESS WHAT IS OFTEN REFERRED TO AS THE SCHOOL TO PRISON PIPELINE.

WE'LL EXAMINE SOME OF THE STRUCTURAL ISSUES BEHIND THE OVER REPRESENTATION OF AFRICAN AMERICAN STUDENTS IN THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM AND TALK ABOUT POSSIBLE WAYS TO BREAK THE CYCLE.

MY COLLEAGUE FROM WFTV CHANNEL 9, DARLENE JONES, JOINS ME IN THE STUDIO TONIGHT TO HELP MODERATE THIS DISCUSSION.

AND JOINING US FOR THIS IMPORTANT CONVERSATION ARE DR. LARRY WALKER, AN ASSISTANT PROFESSOR IN EDUCATIONAL LEADERSHIP AT THE UNIVERSITY OF CENTRAL FLORIDA, AND JENNIFER BELLINGER, A FORMER SCHOOL PRINCIPAL NOW WITH THE ORANGE COUNTY PUBLIC SCHOOL'S MINORITY ACHIEVEMENT OFFICE.

THANK YOU BOTH SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR TIME TONIGHT.

BEFORE WE BEGIN, I WANT TO PLAY YOU PART OF AN INTERVIEW I DID WITH SHERIFF JOHN MINA.

>>I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO SEPARATE ADMINISTRATIVE, DISCIPLINARY TYPE INCIDENTS FROM ACTUAL CRIMINAL EVENTS.

SO OUR MAIN PURPOSE THERE IS TO KEEP THOSE KIDS SAFE.

SO IN MY OPINION, LAW ENFORCEMENT SHOULD NOT BE CALLED FOR ANY TYPE OF ADMINISTRATIVE OR DISCIPLINARY ACTION THAT THE STUDENT MAY HAVE TAKEN, BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT TO GET LAW ENFORCEMENT INVOLVED IN SOMETHING THAT'S NOT A CRIME.

>>WHAT DO YOU THINK CONTRIBUTES TO THIS DISPARITY THAT WE SEE, RACIAL DISPARITY IN TERMS OF THE STUDENTS THAT END UP GETTING INVOLVED WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT AT SCHOOL?

>>YEAH, I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE DISPARITY IS, BUT FROM A LAW ENFORCEMENT PERSPECTIVE, I KNOW THAT WE RESPOND TO REPORTS OF CRIME.

SO IF SOMEONE IS REPORTING A CRIME TO US, NO MATTER WHO THE SUSPECT IS, NO MATTER WHO THE VICTIM IS, WE HAVE TO GO TO THAT CALL, WE HAVE TO MAKE A DETERMINATION IF A CRIME IS COMMITTED, AND UNFORTUNATELY IN SOME CASES, MAKE AN ARREST.

NOW THE GOOD NEWS IS IN ORANGE COUNTY PUBLIC SCHOOLS, THE SCHOOLS THAT THE ORANGE COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE ARE IN CHARGE OF, WE HAVE ONLY ARRESTED 29 STUDENTS LAST YEAR OUT OF 123,000 STUDENTS THAT GO TO SCHOOL THERE.

>>A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT WORRY ABOUT THE SCHOOL RESOURCE OFFICER MODEL ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THE WAY THAT A LOT OF POLICE FORCES SORT OF VIEW THEIR ROLE IN SOCIETY.

AND I'VE SPOKEN BEFORE WITH YOUR COLLEAGUE IN VOLUSIA COUNTY, WHO SAID A LOT OF POLICE DEPARTMENTS SEE THEMSELVES AS HAVING A WARRIOR MENTALITY, AND THAT'S JUST NOT RIGHT FOR THE CLASSROOM.

HOW DO YOU MAKE SURE THAT YOUR OFFICERS THAT YOU PLACE IN SCHOOLS HAVE THE RIGHT MENTALITY TO GO ABOUT DOING THEIR JOB, WHICH IS NOT GOING TO RESULT IN PEOPLE UNDER ARREST?

>>SO LAW ENFORCEMENT IS ONE OF THE MOST DIFFICULT AND COMPLEX PROFESSIONS IN THE WORLD, AND OFFICERS AND DEPUTIES HAVE TO BALANCE BEING A GUARDIAN 90% OF TIME, BUT ALSO HAVING THAT WARRIOR MENTALITY OF WHEN AN INCIDENT SUCH AS PARKLAND HAPPENS.

I THINK OUR DEPUTIES HAVE TO HAVE THAT MENTALITY OF THEY NEED TO BE A MENTOR, A TEACHER, BUILD RELATIONSHIPS AND BUILD TRUST WITH THE STUDENTS, BUT ALSO BE THERE IN CASE THE WORST HAPPENS.

>>WELL, LET ME START WITH YOU, DR. WALKER.

JUST TALK US SORT OF THROUGH THE BIG PICTURE HERE.

WHY BROAD BRUSH STROKES ARE AFRICAN AMERICAN STUDENTS SO OVERREPRESENTED IN THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM?

>>WELL BROAD STROKES, WE GOT TO TALK ABOUT THE FACT THAT THE SCHOOL PRISON PIPELINES HAVE BEEN AROUND FOR DECADES.

AND IT WASN'T UNTIL 2011 DURING THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION WHEN THEN ATTORNEY GENERAL HOLDER AND SECRETARY OF EDUCATION ARNE DUNCAN HAD A PRESS CONFERENCE, AND THEN DESCRIBED SOME OF THE CHALLENGES AS IT RELATES TO DISPROPORTIONALITY IN TERMS OF BLACK AND BROWN STUDENTS BEING SUSPENDED AND EXPELLED.

SO AFTER THAT, WE HAVE SEEN SOME MOVEMENT IN TERMS OF URBAN, RURAL, SUBURBAN SCHOOL DISTRICTS LOWERING THAT DISPROPORTIONALITY IN TERMS OF SUSPENSION/EXPULSION RATES, BUT WE NEED TO DO A LOT MORE.

AND THIS CERTAINLY CONNECTS WHEN WE TALK ABOUT POLICING IN OUR COMMUNITY.

WE KNOW THAT AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITIES ARE OVERPOLICED.

WE KNOW THAT THEY'RE DISPROPORTIONATELY LIKELY TO BE STOPPED BY LAW ENFORCEMENT.

SO THERE'S ALL STATISTICAL DATA.

IT'S A CORRELATION BETWEEN THAT, IN TERMS OF THIS IDEA OF COMMUNITIES BEING OVERPOLICED.

ALSO, IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE, THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY TO LEARNING GAP IN OUR SCHOOLS.

SO I DON'T USE THE PHRASE ACHIEVEMENT GAP, I USE THE PHRASE OPPORTUNITY LEARNING GAP.

SO THAT MEANS THAT WE NEED TO MAKE SURE BLACK STUDENTS HAVE MORE ACCESS TO GIFTED AND TALENTED PROGRAMS.

SOMETIMES BLACK STUDENTS OR OTHER STUDENTS MAY...

SOME OF THEIR BEHAVIORS MAY NOT BE CONSISTENT WITH WHAT TEACHERS WANT.

AND SOME OF THAT IS STUDENTS ARE BORED, AND WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH BLACK STUDENTS IN GIFTED AND TALENTED PROGRAMS.

AND ALSO, AS IT RELATES TO COVID-19, SOME OF THE CHALLENGES WE'VE ENCOUNTERED: TECHNOLOGICAL, UNEMPLOYMENT, HOUSING AND FOOD INSECURITY, THESE ARE ALL ISSUES THAT DISPROPORTIONATELY IMPACT THE BLACK COMMUNITY.

SO WHEN WE TALK ABOUT SCHOOLS, THEY ARE THE CENTER OF THE COMMUNITY.

SO WE HAVE TO BE SURE THAT WE ARE ADDRESSING NOT ONLY THE ISSUES IN THE SCHOOL, BUT THAT WE'RE ALSO ADDRESSING ISSUES IN THE COMMUNITY.

>>WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT STUDENTS BEING EXPELLED OR SUSPENDED FROM SCHOOLS, TYPICALLY WHAT YOU'LL FIND IS THAT MINORITY STUDENTS ARE SUSPENDED OR EXPELLED AT A MUCH HIGHER RATE.

HOW DO SCHOOL DISTRICTS JUGGLE WITH THAT AND TRY TO CREATE A BETTER BALANCE?

>>WHAT I'VE SEEN IN MY SCHOOL DISTRICT IS LOOKING AT RESTORATIVE PRACTICES AND GIVING SCHOOLS STRATEGIES OF HOW TO WORK WITH STUDENTS BEFORE THEY'RE SUSPENDED.

SO WE ARE PROACTIVE IN HOW WE'RE DEALING WITH BEHAVIORS.

WE'RE PROACTIVE IN IDENTIFYING STUDENTS WHO MAY HAVE SOME ISSUES THAT NEED TO BE ADDRESSED.

WE'RE LOOKING AT IDENTIFYING STUDENTS WHO ARE GIFTED AND GIVING THEM THE OPPORTUNITY TO PARTICIPATE IN ADVANCED COURSE WORK.

SO THERE ARE THINGS THAT WE ARE DOING WITHIN ORANGE COUNTY PUBLIC SCHOOLS TO DECREASE THE NUMBER OF STUDENTS THAT ARE GETTING EXPELLED, DECREASE THE NUMBER OF STUDENTS THAT ARE GETTING SUSPENDED, BUT ALSO EXPOSING THEM TO OPPORTUNITIES THAT THEY MAY NOT BE ABLE TO AFFORD BECAUSE OF WHERE THEY LIVE, GIVING THEM THE OPPORTUNITY TO APPLY FOR THOSE TOP TIER COLLEGES, EXPOSING THEM TO WHAT IT WOULD BE LIKE.

INSTEAD OF JUST SAYING, "I'M NOT GOING TO COLLEGE," THERE ARE OPPORTUNITIES AVAILABLE FOR YOU, BUT WE GIVE THEM THE OPPORTUNITY TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THOSE OPPORTUNITIES THAT MAY BE AVAILABLE.

>>SO JENNIFER, IN ORDER TO EFFECTIVELY DO THAT, DO TEACHERS, DO ADMINISTRATORS AT THE SCHOOL LEVEL, DO THEY NEED TO BE RETRAINED ON HOW TO IDENTIFY THOSE STUDENTS SO THAT A TEACHER UNDERSTANDS THAT BECAUSE A CHILD IS VERY TALKATIVE IN CLASS, IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THEY HAVE BEHAVIOR ISSUE, MAYBE THEY ARE JUST BORED?

>>TRAINING HAS TO BE ONGOING, BECAUSE THINGS CHANGE OVER THE YEARS.

SO SOMETHING THAT MAY HAVE BEEN PREVALENT 10 YEARS AGO IN HOW STUDENTS MAY ...

SOME PEOPLE MAY REFER TO IT AS WELL, BACK THEN THE STUDENTS JUST CAME AND SAT IN CLASS AND DIDN'T DISRUPT, BUT NO, THERE WERE STILL TALKATIVE STUDENTS.

THERE WERE STUDENTS WHO STILL HAD BEHAVIORS, BUT WE ALWAYS REFER TO BACK THEN.

AND I THINK WE HAVE TO CONTINUE TO TRAIN, BECAUSE WE CAN FORGET ABOUT STUDENTS WHO HAVE POTENTIAL JUST BECAUSE THEY MAY HAVE BEHAVIORS.

OR I JUST ENCOUNTERED ONE OF MY STUDENTS ... AS A SEVENTH GRADE TEACHER, I HAD A STUDENT, SHE WAS VERY TALKATIVE, HAD BEHAVIORS, AND SHE'S A TEACHER.

AND WHEN I WENT TO HER CLASS, SHE SAID, "THANK YOU FOR NOT GIVING UP ON ME, BECAUSE YOU COULD HAVE."

AND WE TALKED ABOUT SOME OF THE BEHAVIORS THAT SHE DISPLAYED, BUT IT'S JUST SOMETHING ABOUT WHEN YOU'RE A TEACHER ... AND I KNOW WHAT TEACHERS DID FOR ME, BECAUSE SCHOOL WAS A SAFE HAVEN FOR ME.

SO THAT'S WHAT I WANT TO DO AS A LEADER, MAKE IT A SAFE HAVEN.

WE'RE SUPPORTIVE.

IT'S COMMUNITY.

IT'S BEING THERE WHEN THE PARENTS CAN'T BE, BECAUSE OUR PARENTS ARE WORKING TWO OR THREE JOBS, SO MAYBE THEY CAN'T COME TO THE SCHOOL.

MAYBE THEY CAN'T COME TO THE PARENT MEETING, BUT IT'S OUR RESPONSIBILITY AS LEADERS TO MAKE SURE THAT OUR STUDENTS ARE GIVEN EVERY OPPORTUNITY TO EXCEL IN ANYTHING THAT THEY WANT TO DO.

>>I MEAN THAT'S INTERESTING.

DR. WALKER, JENNIFER MENTIONED THERE ABOUT SAFE HAVENS, BUT OF COURSE SCHOOLS HAVE HISTORICALLY NOT BEEN THAT.

AND A LOT OF PEOPLE POINT TO THE ISSUE OF ZERO TOLERANCE POLICIES THAT HAVE SORT OF TRIGGERED A LOT OF THESE PROBLEMS THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

I MEAN YOU'VE STUDIED THIS.

TALK TO US ABOUT HOW THOSE KINDS OF POLICIES HAVE FACTORED INTO THIS.

>>SO A LOT OF THIS CAN BE CONNECTED TO THE CRIME BILL IN 1994, WHICH WE KNOW IN - >>GUTHRIE SCHOOLS.

>>RIGHT.

SO A LOT OF ... BECAUSE OF SOME OF THE CRIMINALIZATION.

SO WE HAD FOCUSED ON ARRESTING LOW LEVEL DRUG OFFENDERS.

THAT DISPROPORTIONATELY IMPACTED THE BLACK COMMUNITY.

A LOT OF THAT TOUGH ON CRIME LANGUAGE FILTERED DOWN TO PRE-K THROUGH 12 SCHOOLS.

SO WHAT DO WE HAVE TODAY?

WE HAVE BLACK STUDENTS WHO ARE SUSPENDED THREE TO FIVE TIMES COMPARED TO THEIR WHITE COUNTERPARTS.

I WANT TO ALSO NOTE IN TERMS OF MY RESEARCH, MY COLLEAGUES AND I CONDUCTED A STUDY JUST THIS YEAR.

WE USED DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION DATA, BECAUSE I WANT TO ... PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND THIS IS NOT JUST AN URBAN SCHOOL DISTRICT ISSUE.

IT IS SUBURBAN AND RURAL.

SO WE LOOKED AT A RURAL LARGE STATE IN THE SOUTH, I'LL JUST SAY THAT, IN TERMS OF BLACK STUDENTS IN THE RURAL DISTRICT.

AND WHAT WE FOUND IS THOSE NUMBERS, IN TERMS OF SUSPENSION/EXPULSION, ARE COMPARABLE TO URBAN AND SUBURBAN SCHOOL DISTRICT.

SO THIS IS NOT JUST AN URBAN SCHOOL DISTRICT ISSUE.

IT IS A NATIONAL ISSUE.

THERE WAS ANOTHER STATE THAT CAME OUT A YEAR OR TWO AGO THAT FOUND THAT BLACK STUDENTS ONCE AGAIN ARE SUSPENDED/EXPELLED DISPROPORTIONATELY, REGARDLESS OF SOCIOECONOMIC STATUS, BECAUSE I KNOW A LOT OF TIMES, AND SOMETIMES THERE MAY BE A PERCEPTION OUT THERE THAT THERE ARE ONLY A CERTAIN KIND OF BLACK STUDENTS THAT ARE BEING SUSPENDED.

NO, ALL BLACK STUDENTS ARE ENCOUNTERING THIS CHALLENGE IN PUBLIC AND PRIVATE INSTITUTIONS.

SO IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT, WHICH I SAID, TO CONTEXTUALIZE, UNPACK THIS CONVERSATION ABOUT SOME OF THE THINGS THAT ARE HAPPENING IN OUR SCHOOLS.

I WANT TO ALSO NOTE, BECAUSE I THINK JENNIFER SAID SOMETHING IMPORTANT ABOUT THE STUDENT SHE TALKED ABOUT.

I WAS ONCE THAT CHATTY STUDENT IN THE CLASSROOM.

I WASN'T A STRAIGHT A OR B STUDENT.

I TALKED A LOT, AS YOU CAN SEE, AND GOT MYSELF IN TROUBLE A LOT.

>>YEAH.

>>SO IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTICE THAT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT STUDENTS.

AND I'VE SAID THIS TO SOME OF MY STUDENTS, WE HAVE TO SHOW STUDENTS GRACE, PARTICULARLY DURING THIS TIME OF COVID-19, CONTINUING, PARTICULARLY CONSIDERING THAT BLACK COMMUNITIES ARE DISPROPORTIONATELY IMPACTED BY WHAT IS HAPPENING IN OUR COUNTRY.

>>WHAT WILL HAPPEN WHEN YOU HAVE ONE OF THESE ZERO TOLERANCE OFFENSES OR THINGS GET OUT OF CONTROL AT A SCHOOL?

LAW ENFORCEMENT TYPICALLY IS CALLED IN.

HOW ARE YOU ALL WORKING AS A DISTRICT TO TRY TO REDUCE THOSE NUMBERS AND THOSE SORTS OF ENCOUNTERS?

>>AS A FORMER HIGH SCHOOL PRINCIPAL, I ALWAYS BUILD A POSITIVE RELATIONSHIP WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT.

AND AS PRINCIPALS, THAT'S WHAT WE WANT TO WORK, BECAUSE WE ARE A TEAM.

SO IT'S HAVING THOSE CONVERSATIONS ABOUT WHEN DOES LAW ENFORCEMENT NEED TO STEP IN, AND WHEN IS THIS JUST A SCHOOL ISSUE?

SO WE ALWAYS HAD ALL ONGOING MEETINGS, WEEKLY MEETINGS JUST TO TALK ABOUT, OKAY, HERE'S WHAT WE SEE GOING ON IN THE SCHOOL.

HERE IS A POTENTIAL ISSUE.

LET'S SIT DOWN AND TALK WITH THOSE STUDENTS SO THAT WE CAN KIND OF AVOID HAVING STUDENTS ARRESTED.

WHAT CAN WE DO AHEAD BEFORE A STUDENT COMMITS A CRIME OR AN OFFENSE THAT WOULD BE AN ARRESTABLE OFFENSE?

>>I MEAN, THAT'S SORT OF THE RUB, ISN'T IT?

BECAUSE OFTENTIMES WE FOCUS ON LAW ENFORCEMENT AND THE ROLE OF POLICE, BUT OF COURSE THE TEACHERS IN THE CLASSROOMS ARE THE ONES THAT HAVE GOT TO CALL THE SCHOOL RESOURCE OFFICER IN.

I MEAN, WHAT DO YOU TELL TEACHERS ABOUT WHEN TO TAKE THAT KIND OF ACTION?

I MEAN, WHAT'S THE LINE?

>>SO WHEN WE LOOK AT OUR SCHOOL DISTRICT, YOU DON'T FIRST CALL LAW ENFORCEMENT.

>>YEAH.

>>IT'S ALWAYS YOU HAVE DEANS, YOU HAVE ADMINISTRATORS, YOU HAVE SUPPORT WHO DEAL WITH DISCIPLINE ISSUES.

AND THE LAW ENFORCEMENT IS NOT THE FIRST PERSON THAT'S CALLED.

AND WE ALWAYS LOOK AT IT AS THE SITUATION WHEN LAW ENFORCEMENT NEEDS TO STEP IN IS WHEN IT'S OUT OF THE SCHOOL'S HAND, WHEN IT'S A CRIME THAT'S COMMITTED.

IT'S NOT ALWAYS FIRST.

AND LAW ENFORCEMENT, IN SOME CASES, THEY'RE COUNSELORS TOO.

THEY'RE NOT THERE TO JUST ARREST.

AND I'M JUST LOOKING AT ... AND SOME PEOPLE MAY DISAGREE, BUT I'M LOOKING AT MY SITUATION THAT I WAS IN AS A PRINCIPAL.

WE WORKED AS A TEAM.

AND THAT'S WHAT IT WAS ALWAYS ABOUT, A TEAM EFFORT.

LET'S APPROACH IT.

WE'RE NOT GOING TO ARREST KIDS ALL THE TIME.

I DIDN'T WANT KIDS ... ONE RULE THAT I DIDN'T WANT KIDS ESCORTED ACROSS CAMPUS.

IF THEY HAD TO BE ARRESTED, LET'S TAKE THEM OUT THE BACK DOOR, BECAUSE I DIDN'T WANT MY OTHER STUDENTS SEEING THAT.

IT WAS LET'S NOT GO TO A CLASS AND ARREST SOMEONE AND WALK THEM OUT THE FRONT DOOR.

NO, THAT'S PRIVATE.

AND IF IT HAPPENS, IT HAPPENS, BUT THAT'S NOT FOR THE OTHER STUDENTS TO BE ...

I WANTED TO PROTECT THAT STUDENT FROM THE EMBARRASSMENT OF OTHER STUDENTS BEING ABLE TO SEE THAT.

BUT IT'S A CONVERSATION, AND WE HAVE TO LOOK AT WORKING TOGETHER AS A TEAM.

>>I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE SCHOOL RESOURCE OFFICERS ON CAMPUS, BECAUSE THERE HAS BEEN CONTROVERSY ABOUT SORT OF HAVING POLICE IN A SCHOOL ENVIRONMENT THAT IS SUPPOSED TO BE A SAFE HAVEN.

>>SO IT STILL GOES BACK TO RELATIONSHIP.

WHAT RELATIONSHIPS HAVE SCHOOL LEADERS BUILT WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT, WHERE THEY'RE NOT SEEN AS, "I'M HERE TO ARREST ANYONE.

I'M HERE TO ARREST ALL STUDENTS?"

WHAT KIND OF CONVERSATIONS ARE LAW ENFORCEMENT HAVING WITH STUDENTS THAT'S RELATED TO EDUCATION AND NOT ABOUT YOU COMMITTING A CRIME?

SO WE HAVE TO OPEN THE DOOR FOR MORE CONVERSATION, WHERE THEY CAN BUILD RELATIONSHIPS WITH THE STUDENTS AND NOT JUST, "OKAY, I'M HERE TO ARREST.

I'M HERE TO FIND OUT IF YOU'RE ON PROBATION.

I'M HERE ..." SO IT HAS TO BE BIGGER THAN THAT.

AND WE HAVE TO HAVE MORE CONVERSATIONS WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT AND SCHOOL LEADERS AND STUDENTS AND JUST TALK ABOUT HOW DOES IT MAKE ME FEEL WITH THIS PARTICULAR ... BECAUSE LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS ARE DIFFERENT.

THE RELATIONSHIPS THEY DEAL WITH STUDENTS ARE DIFFERENT.

SO IT HAS TO BE FOR THAT SCHOOL AND THAT LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER THAT THEY BUILD A RELATIONSHIP WITH THOSE STUDENTS, WITH THE TEACHERS, WHERE WE ARE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER, THAT I WANT TO SEE THE STUDENTS SUCCEED, I WANT THE SCHOOL TO BE SUCCESSFUL.

WE WANT THE ENVIRONMENT TO BE PEACEFUL WHEN LAW ENFORCEMENT, WHEN THEY NEED TO DO THEIR JOBS, THEY CAN DO THEIR JOBS, BUT THEY'RE THERE AS A SUPPORT, NOT TO HURT OR NOT TO HARM STUDENTS OR ARREST STUDENTS.

>>I MEAN, IT'S INTERESTING, ISN'T IT, LARRY?

I MEAN, WE'VE HAD A NATIONAL CONVERSATION ABOUT SYSTEMIC RACISM IN POLICING.

AND OF COURSE THE SROS ARE PART OF THE POLICE FORCE.

THEY'RE IN THE SCHOOLS.

HOW DO WE MAKE SURE THAT SORT OF THOSE ISSUES DON'T BLEED OVER INTO THE CLASSROOM AND SORT OF START THAT CYCLE OF RACISM THAT EARLY?

>>YEAH.

SO I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT ...

THIS IS AN IMPORTANT QUESTION, THAT SCHOOLS, WHEN I TALK ABOUT THEIR COMMUNITIES, SO THEY'RE THEY'RE PART OF A LARGER COMMUNITY.

>>YEAH.

>>I THINK JENNIFER MAY HAVE HIGHLIGHTED A GREAT POINT ABOUT RELATIONSHIPS.

THAT'S KEY, BUT IT'S ALSO IMPORTANT TO KNOW WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THAT, WE TALK ABOUT ZERO TOLERANCE POLICIES IN THE 1994 CRIME BILL AND CRIMINALIZATION OF BLACK CHILDREN.

WE SAW THAT HERE IN FLORIDA A COUPLE YEARS AGO.

LAST YEAR, THE STATE HAD TO PASS A LAW TO PREVENT LAW ENFORCEMENT FROM ARRESTING CHILDREN UNDER SEVEN YEARS OF AGE.

THAT OCCURRED BECAUSE OF AN INCIDENT OF AN SRO ARRESTING A SMALL BLACK GIRL WHOSE BEHAVIORS... JENNIFER AND I BOTH WORKED IN SCHOOLS, THEY COULD HAVE BEEN ADDRESSED.

SO YOU PUT SHACKLES, YOU ARREST A CHILD WHOSE FINGERS, HANDS AREN'T EVEN BIG ENOUGH TO GO AROUND.

SO THAT'S A PROBLEM, SO WE CAN'T ALLOW THAT TO HAPPEN.

COMMUNICATION IS IMPORTANT, BUT AS AN EDUCATOR AND AS A PARENT OF A BLACK SON, WHAT WE REALLY NEED IS WE NEED TO INCREASE THE AMOUNT OF FUNDING OF MENTAL HEALTH AND SUPPORT SERVICES TO AVOID FOOD AND HOUSING INSECURITY, BECAUSE STUDENTS IN OUR CLASSROOMS ARE RESPONDING TO STRESSORS.

SO FOR INSTANCE, RELATING COVID-19, THEY COULD HAVE LOST ONE, A PARENT, A FAMILY MEMBER, A GRANDPARENT, ET CETERA.

THAT'S LONG TERM TRAUMA.

SO WE NEED TO DRAMATICALLY INCREASE MENTAL HEALTH SUPPORT SERVICES, AND WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE TRAIN TEACHERS, ADMINISTRATORS, AND SCHOOL-BASED STAFF TO TALK ABOUT STEREOTYPES AND MISCONCEPTIONS.

AND I KNOW THAT'S BEEN A BIG CONTROVERSIAL TALK ABOUT RACISM IN THIS COUNTRY, BUT SYSTEMIC RACISM IS REAL, AND WE SEE IT THROUGH THE DATA RELATING TO THE SCHOOL TO PRISON PIPELINE.

>>I WANT TO FOLLOW UP A LITTLE BIT ON THAT QUESTION, BECAUSE THE SAME BLACK AND BROWN CHILDREN WHO ARE IN OUR SCHOOLS ARE THE SAME CHILDREN WHO DO SEE THE PROTESTS HAPPENING ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

THEY DO HEAR THE NARRATIVE OF POLICE SHOOTING BLACK AND BROWN PEOPLE IN THEIR NEIGHBORHOODS.

SO HOW DO YOU MAKE THE CHILDREN AWARE THAT THE POLICE ARE HERE FOR THIS REASON AND THAT ISSUE THAT'S HAPPENING OUT THERE IS A SEPARATE SITUATION?

>>YEAH, I UNDERSTAND THAT.

I THINK THEY'RE ACTUALLY THE SAME THOUGH, BECAUSE IF WHETHER YOU'RE A PRE-K THROUGH 12 EDUCATOR OR YOU TEACH IN HIGHER EDUCATION, YOU HAVE TO HAVE ... WE'RE ALL AMERICANS HERE.

SO WE NEED TO HAVE HONEST CONVERSATIONS, BECAUSE THOSE CHILDREN WHO HAVE SEEN, WITNESSED A PARENT OR SOMEONE ELSE FALSELY ACCUSED OR STOPPED DISPROPORTIONATELY, THEY SEE THAT.

SO WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE LIVED EXPERIENCES OF MEMBERS OF THE BLACK COMMUNITY, YOU'RE AWARE AT A VERY EARLY AGE, FOR BLACK CHILDREN, THAT THESE ARE THINGS THAT HAPPEN IN THE COMMUNITY, REGARDLESS OF YOUR SOCIAL ECONOMIC BACKGROUND.

SO WHAT WE HAVE TO DO IS HAVE THE OPEN DIALOGUE.

WE NEED TO HAVE A CONVERSATION ABOUT THAT.

AND ONCE AGAIN, I UNDERSTAND THE POLITICAL CLIMATE RIGHT NOW HAVING THESE CONVERSATIONS, BUT I CAN SAY PERSONALLY, NOT JUST AS A RESEARCHER, BUT AS A BLACK MALE, AS A FATHER, I WANT TO HAVE THESE CONVERSATIONS BECAUSE I WANT TO ENSURE THAT MY SON IS SAFE.

>>PART OF TRYING TO KEEP THE ARREST AND EVEN THE DISCIPLINES DOWN IS RESTORATIVE JUSTICE.

>>YES.

>>WHEN I HEAR ABOUT RESTORATIVE JUSTICE, I THINK IT'S AN AMAZING PROGRAM.

I THINK IT WORKS WONDERS IN CERTAIN SITUATIONS.

TALK TO US ABOUT HOW THAT WORKS AND THE GOAL OF THAT PROGRAM.

>>SO WE HAVE RESTORATIVE PRACTICES.

IT'S LOOKING AT PROVIDING STUDENTS, WHETHER IT'S A STUDENT ON STUDENT SITUATION OR A STUDENT AND TEACHER, STRATEGIES FOR HOW DO I RESOLVE CONFLICT?

HOW DO WE WORK THIS ISSUE OUT BEFORE A PROBLEM OCCURS, BEFORE I'M KICKED OUT OF A TEACHER'S CLASS, BEFORE I'M SUSPENDED?

OR EVEN IF A SUSPENSION HAS TO INCUR BECAUSE OF CONSEQUENCES OR THE OFFENSE, LET'S ENSURE IT DOESN'T HAPPEN AGAIN.

SO IT'S MAKING SURE THAT SCHOOLS, THERE ARE TRAINED STAFF, WHETHER IT'S TEACHERS... WE HAVE TRAININGS AVAILABLE FOR TEACHERS, FOR ADMINISTRATORS, SO THAT THEY KNOW HOW TO USE THOSE STRATEGIES AND WORK WITH STUDENTS IN THE CLASSROOM WHEN THEY SEE CERTAIN BEHAVIORS BEING DISPLAYED, BUT WE ALSO WANT TO USE IT AS A WAY TO REDUCE SUSPENSIONS OF STUDENTS.

SO A STUDENT MAY HAVE COMMIT AN ACT OR AN OFFENSE THAT REQUIRES A THREE DAY SUSPENSION, BUT INSTEAD OF THAT SUSPENSION, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A CONVERSATION.

AND THEN YOU CAN GO BACK TO CLASS.

>>ARE THESE KINDS OF PROGRAMS, DR. WALKER, WORKING?

WE SEE THESE KINDS OF PROGRAMS PLAYING OUT NATIONWIDE.

ARE THEY HAVING RESULTS?

>>YEAH.

WELL, I THINK WHAT JENNIFER TALKED ABOUT, WHAT THEY'RE DOING IN ORANGE COUNTY AND THEY'RE DOING AN EXCELLENT JOB, BECAUSE THEY SERVE A DIVERSE STUDENT POPULATION.

SO YEAH, THOSE PROGRAMS ARE IMPORTANT.

AND I WANT TO KIND OF CORRELATE THIS IN TERMS OF WHY THOSE PROGRAMS MATTER, PARTICULARLY RELATES TO THE BLACK COMMUNITY, BECAUSE HISTORICALLY IN THE BLACK COMMUNITY, WHAT HAPPENED IS YOU SOLVED ISSUES BY COMMUNICATING TO YOUR NEIGHBOR.

SO THIS IDEA OF RESTORATIVE PRACTICES IS CONSISTENT WITH CULTURAL NORMS.

SO IT IS REALLY CRITICALLY IMPORTANT TO HAVE THESE OPEN DIALOGUE CONVERSATIONS, BECAUSE JENNIFER HIGHLIGHTED A POINT ABOUT DEESCALATING ISSUES BECAUSE ... AND SHE KNOWS THIS AS A FORMER SCHOOL PRINCIPAL, BECAUSE IF YOU DON'T DEESCALATE IT, THOSE SAME ISSUES BLEED INTO THE COMMUNITY, AND THEN IT COULD CAUSE LONG TERM PROBLEMS, IN TERMS OF CREATING RIVALRIES THAT MAYBE WEREN'T THERE BEFORE.

SO YEAH, THESE PROGRAMS ABSOLUTELY DO WORK.

PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPMENT IS KEY.

AND WE HAVE TO HAVE A REALLY HONEST CONVERSATION ABOUT HOW YOU VIEW BLACK CHILDREN.

AS A FORMER EDUCATOR, I'VE BEEN IN PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPMENT TRAINING.

I'VE ALWAYS CONDUCTED THESE TRAININGS.

I'M IN A TRADITIONAL TEACHER EDUCATION PROGRAM.

AND I'VE BEEN IN A ROOM WHERE PEOPLE HAVE MADE OFFENSIVE COMMENTS ABOUT BLACK STUDENTS WITH ME IN THE ROOM, AS IF I'M NOT THERE.

SO IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT, LIKE I SAID, THAT WE CONFRONT THESE ISSUES ABOUT WHY BLACK STUDENTS ARE THREE TO FIVE TIMES LIKELY TO BE SUSPENDED IN URBAN, RURAL, AND SUBURBAN SCHOOL DISTRICTS THROUGHOUT THE UNITED STATES.

ALSO, WHAT I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT IS WE SHIFT THE BLAME FROM BLACK STUDENTS AND WE FOCUS ON SYSTEMS, BECAUSE IF WE'RE SUSPENDING CHILDREN AT THIS RATE, IT'S NOT ABOUT THE STUDENTS, IT'S NOT ABOUT THE COMMUNITY.

OBVIOUSLY THE COMMUNITIES HAVE THESE SUPPORT SERVICES, BUT IT IS ABOUT THE SYSTEM THAT NEEDS TO CORRECT ITSELF.

>>HOW DO YOU TALK TO TEACHERS ABOUT THEIR VIEWS OF STUDENTS?

I MEAN, TEACHERS COME INTO CLASSROOMS WITH THEIR OWN SET OF PREJUDICES AND THEIR OWN SET OF STEREOTYPES.

>>WE HAVE, WITHIN ORANGE COUNTY, CULTURALLY RESPONSIVE BASED TEACHING, WHERE WE WORK WITH TEACHERS ON HOW THEY SEE THEIR STUDENTS.

AND WE WORK WITH THEM ON HOW DO WE LOOK AT STUDENTS AND SEE THEM FOR WHO THEY ARE AND NOT JUST BY THE COLOR OF THEIR SKIN, THAT THEY HAVE POTENTIAL.

NOW, IT'S ALWAYS A WORK IN PROGRESS.

WE HAVEN'T FIGURED IT ALL OUT, BUT WE'VE STARTED BY PROVIDING TRAINING FOR TEACHERS AND THEN WORKING WITH THEM ONGOING.

IT'S NOT JUST A ONE DAY TRAINING.

NO, WE HAVE TO CONTINUE TO GO BACK TO IT.

HOW DO WE SEE THE STUDENTS WHO WE WORK WITH?

HOW DO WE SEE THE STUDENTS SITTING IN OUR CLASSES?

HOW CAN WE ENSURE THAT WE WANT THE BEST FOR THEM AND THAT WE'RE SHOWING THEM AND WE'RE PUTTING ALL OF OUR THOUGHTS ABOUT A STUDENT TO THE SIDE AND WORKING WITH THE STUDENTS WHO WE HAVE IN OUR CLASS.

>>WE TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT ZERO TOLERANCE AND ALL OF THAT, BUT ALL OF THAT IS WRITTEN INTO SCHOOL DISCIPLINE CODES.

HOW MUCH WORK HAS GONE INTO REVAMPING AND REVIEWING SCHOOL DISCIPLINE CODES TO KIND OF GET US UP TO A 2021 STANDARD OF WHAT SHOULD AND SHOULDN'T BE THERE?

BECAUSE A LOT OF IT IS 10, 15, 20 YEARS OLD.

>>I'LL SAY FOR ORANGE COUNTY, IT'S REVIEWED EVERY YEAR AND CHANGES MADE EVERY YEAR, BUT YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT ... YOU HAVE LEVEL ONE OFFENSE UP TO A LEVEL FOUR.

AND WHEN A STUDENT COMMITS AN OFFENSE, YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT IT.

MAYBE IT'S NOT A THREE, MAYBE IT'S JUST A ONE, WHERE THAT'S JUST A VERBAL CONVERSATION OR THAT'S A PHONE CALL HOME.

EVERY OFFENSE IS NOT A SUSPENSION.

IT'S NOT JUST AN, "OKAY, YOU COMMIT THIS OFFENSE AND IT'S A 10 DAY SUSPENSION HOME," BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT OKAY, WHAT OCCURRED?

WHAT HAPPENED?

WHAT TRIGGERED THIS STUDENT?

DID HE NOT EAT LAST NIGHT?

DID THEY GET EVICTED?

DID THEY SLEEP IN THEIR CAR?

WE HAVE TO LOOK AT ALL AND HAVE CONVERSATIONS AND REALLY GET TO KNOW WHO YOUR STUDENTS ARE ON THE CAMPUS.

AND THAT'S WHY GOOD LEADERS KNOW THEIR STUDENTS AND THEY KNOW, OKAY, SOMETHING DOESN'T LOOK RIGHT THIS MORNING, SO LET ME PULL THIS STUDENT TO THE SIDE BEFORE SOMETHING HAPPENS.

>>WE'VE HEARD A LOT ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING ON THE COUNTY LEVEL.

AND I WANT TO KIND OF CLOSE BY TALKING ABOUT THE STATE AND FEDERAL LEVEL.

WHAT IS THE ROLE OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND THE STATE GOVERNMENT TO THIS WHOLE PUZZLE?

WE'LL START WITH YOU, LARRY.

>>THEY PLAY A HUGE ROLE.

I GAVE THE EXAMPLE EARLIER ABOUT ATTORNEY GENERAL HOLDER AND THEN SECRETARY OF EDUCATION ARNE DUNCAN IN 2011, ESSENTIALLY TELLING STATES NOT SO GENTLY THAT THEY'RE DOING A BAD JOB IN TERMS OF SUSPENSION/EXPULSION OF BLACK AND BROWN CHILDREN.

SO THE FEDERAL AND STATE, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT STATE LEVEL, THE STATE LAST YEAR PASSED LEGISLATION YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO ARREST CHILDREN UNDER THE AGE OF SEVEN, LIKE I SAID.

SO WE'VE STARTED THE ENGINE, SO TO SPEAK, TO USE AN ANALOGY, BUT WE NEEDED TO GET IT REVVED UP A LITTLE BIT, BECAUSE THESE DISPROPORTIONATE NUMBERS STILL EXIST.

AND WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT FOR YEARS AND DECADES, THEY'RE NOT CEMENTED.

SO WE DON'T WANT TO HAVE THIS FIVE, 10 YEARS FROM NOW, WHEREVER WE ARE, WE DON'T WANT TO HAVE THIS ... YOU BRING US BACK DOWN THIS SAME CONVERSATION AS AN ANNIVERSARY EPISODE, WE'RE STILL DEALING WITH THE SAME ISSUES.

AND LIKE I SAID, I'M GREATLY CONCERNED, NOT JUST AS A RESEARCHER, BUT AS A PARENT EDUCATING THAT HAS A BLACK SON, SO THIS IS NOT JUST A ...

I'M NOT JUST A RESEARCHER.

THIS IS VERY PERSONAL FOR ME.

SO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND ITS CURRENT SECRETARY OF EDUCATION NEEDS TO KIND OF FOLLOW THAT SAME PATTERN WE SAW A FEW YEARS AGO, AND BEING CLEAR TO CERTAIN JURISDICTIONS THAT ARE NOT... THEIR NUMBERS ARE NOT COMING CLOSING FAST ENOUGH, THAT THEY HAVE AN OFFICE OF CIVIL RIGHTS IN THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION.

AND AT THE STATE LEVEL, THE STATE NEEDS IS TO TAKE ADDITIONAL ACTION.

IN MY OPINION, SEVEN AND UNDER, YOU NEED TO RAISE THAT.

I THINK IT COULD BE RAISED.

JENNIFER TALKED ABOUT KIDS WHO ARE ARRESTED, TAKING THEM AROUND BACK, BUT WE HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFUL WHO WE CRIMINALIZE.

AND PARTICULARLY WE KNOW THAT BLACK CHILDREN ARE MORE LIKELY TO BE CRIMINALIZED BASED ON PERCEPTIONS PEOPLE HAVE, SO WE NEED TO MAKE SURE WE RAISE THAT AGE LIMIT, IN MY OPINION.

>>ONE THING I WANTED TO FOCUS ON IS MAKING SURE WE HAVE FUNDING FOR SERVICES, MENTAL HEALTH COUNSELING.

THERE NEEDS TO BE FUNDING FOR SCHOOL DISTRICTS TO SUPPORT STUDENTS, AND TO EVEN BE ABLE TO SUPPORT THE FAMILIES.

IT'S NOT JUST THE STUDENTS, BECAUSE NOW WE HAVE TO LOOK AT ... THAT STUDENT HAS TO GO HOME.

SO HOW CAN WE ALSO SUPPORT THE FAMILIES TO ENSURE THAT WHAT WE'RE DOING AT SCHOOLS, THAT THEY NOW HAVE THAT SUPPORT AT HOME AS WELL?

>>WELL, WE THANK YOU BOTH SO MUCH FOR YOUR PERSPECTIVES ON THIS VERY IMPORTANT ISSUE.

AND THAT IS ALL THE TIME WE HAVE FOR TONIGHT.

A REALLY IMPORTANT CONVERSATION.

MY THANKS TO LARRY WALKER AND JENNIFER BELLINGER.

YOU CAN FIND MORE OF THIS DISCUSSION ON OUR NEWS NIGHT CONVERSATIONS WEBSITE AT WUCF.ORG/CONVERSATIONS.

AND BE SURE TO JOIN US IN THE COMING WEEKS AS WE LOOK FOR SOLUTIONS TO MORE KEY ISSUES FACING CENTRAL FLORIDA'S AFRICAN AMERICAN FAMILIES.

UNTIL NEXT TIME, TAKE CARE AND HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.