>> From WXXI News.

This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Well, today we welcome the third of three candidate interviews in the race for New York State Comptroller.

You've already heard from Drew Warshaw and longtime incumbent Thomas DiNapoli.

And now we welcome Raj Goyle.

Goyle says he's running because he's tired of seeing the New York political machine keep people in the dark.

He doesn't like the way that Comptroller DiNapoli has managed state money.

Goyle believes there is more corruption that should be exposed.

And he's got a very interesting resume in electoral politics that we're going to discuss.

He lived in Kansas for some time and ran in deep red districts there, and has some experience with that.

Let's talk about all of that and more with our guest this hour.

Candidate for New York State Comptroller, Raj Goyle Raj.

Welcome to the program.

Thanks for being with us.

>> Thanks, Evan.

Appreciate you being here.

>> And a website, Raj Goyle.com.

If folks want to learn more, we are going to talk about, you know, some of your electoral background, et cetera.

But for those who don't know you, this is just a good chance for an introduction.

Tell people about yourself.

>> Sure.

Well, I'm very honored to be here and I'm running because we need better Democrats.

And we need, I believe Democrats want people who will fight.

And so I am somebody who I. We can lower utility rates.

Uh, Tom hasn't and I will we can cut Wall Street fees.

We can actually get help get ice out of New York.

We can do so many things with this office that we aren't doing right now.

And that's why I'm running.

Uh, I am a I've got an interesting background.

As you mentioned, I'm a dad, a husband, a son.

I live in New York City.

Uh, and I've got two teenage daughters.

I help get the cell phone ban through the legislature last year.

That's been a remarkable success.

I've run a business.

I'm a civil rights lawyer by training and worked at the ACLU and have been an advocate for change my entire life.

And I'm really honored to be talking to you today.

And I'm honored to be running.

>> I want to ask you a little bit about what you learned running in some of your earlier days in electoral politics in Kansas.

So one of the things that you did successfully, successfully was you ran for the Kansas State House, their state legislature, in a district that you said was very, very deeply red, one of the deeper ones in the country.

And you won.

Tell people more about that.

>> Yeah.

So I've been a committed progressive my entire life.

And one of the things I wanted to do, you know, I began my career as a civil rights lawyer.

I was a labor organizer.

And, and what I wanted to do was continue to fight for change.

And so I was fighting the Bush administration's invasion of Iraq and, and fighting there mass deportation policies.

And I had the idea to go back to where I grew up.

My mom and dad were still there and very close with my parents.

And I decided to take on a big challenge there because I wanted to prove that you could actually have progressive values in the hardest place in America.

So that's why I was very happy and proud of the fact that I was endorsed by Planned Parenthood, by the AfL-CIO, by Nancy Pelosi, by Barack Obama, and in fact was strongly supported by one of my primary opponents in this race, Drew Warshaw, uh, who is a longtime friend and had been, uh, I've been a big backer of all those campaigns.

And so, you know, the way that I won that first election was I knocked on 8000 doors.

I was here in New York.

I wish I could knock on all, uh, all 1 million doors of the folks that we expect to vote in this election.

Uh, but the real point was that we were able to, and what I was able to do was defend progressive values in and show that fight.

And it's because of being able to have to have fought successfully is how I know that we can reform Albany, um, Albany needs, uh, it needs new blood.

You know, Tom DiNapoli has been in Albany for 40 years.

He's been a politician for 50 years, longer than I've been alive.

Um, you know, my parents came from they came from they came from India to Rochester in 1970.

Uh, they trained at Rutte at Strong Memorial in Genesee Hospital.

And, um, you know, in fact, as you know, there's a very large South Asian community and population in Rochester and in the surrounding areas.

Uh, I, they moved actually before I was born, but it's a deep part of our family history and the immigrant story.

And I know that, frankly, that same theme of the fact that we can be fighting for progressive values to make sure that we lower utility bills, that we cut, that we grow the pension, that we cut Wall Street fees, that we invest in affordable housing, we get help get ice out of New York, stop funding a genocide abroad.

These are all things that we can do.

>> So when you say you want better Democrats, you want New York State, especially to have better Democrats.

What do you mean by that?

Specifically?

>> I think right now we are having a fight for the, uh, really the direction and in some sense, the soul of the Democratic Party.

And so if you think that, uh, you know, Zohran Mamdani, for example, in New York City and of course people all over the state of New York are responding to the fact that we have an affordability crisis that is choking New Yorkers.

Obviously, uh, in Rochester, the same.

And so what we need to do is actually do everything we can to tackle this affordability crisis and to, frankly, fight the authoritarian administration of Donald Trump.

And so we need Democrats who will actually step up to that fight.

And it's just very clear after after being in elected office for 53 years, that respectfully, it's time for Tom Dinapoli's way of politics, uh, to go.

It is time for change for people who will actually use every molecule of power to help you live a better life.

I don't think right now, with the crises we're facing, that a that a philosophy that we can't invest in affordable housing is the right one.

The concept that we can't fight utility bills, I think that's a problem.

I think the fact that we're giving away money to Wall Street fees, that's a problem.

We should be doing all of these things to help people live a better life.

And we're not right now.

>> Well, so would you put it this way?

Would you say a better Democratic Party is more to the left and less to the center, or do you not think of it that way?

>> I don't really I don't really think about it in terms of the in terms of right or left.

And I don't think any voter thinks about that.

Hey, where am I on the political spectrum?

That's, I think the way the political pundits may think about it, but most people are responding to is, can I afford my bill from R, Gandhi?

Can I actually afford my my rent?

Can I actually pay for groceries?

What what is the political system doing to make my life better?

And let's be also very you know, I'm not naive about this, which is most people don't think about the state comptroller.

It is not the role or the office that sort of rolls off the tongue.

And so one of the healthy things about this primary has been that I think we have put onto the onto the political map for sure, the idea that we should be using.

To get to your question about better Democrats, that we should be using every molecule of power to help people live a better life and protect our values.

Um, right now we Tom DiNapoli has half $1 billion in Palantir.

Our campaign broke that story.

And also, uh, you know, uncovered that that fact.

And, and he tripled down on that position and he continues to defend it.

And I don't think that that reflects right now where New Yorkers values are, that we should be investing in a company that is helping Ice terrorize Americans, um, immigrants and non-immigrants alike.

>> We're going to talk more about the specific proposals from Raj Goyle campaign.

My guest this hour, he's a candidate for New York State comptroller.

And listeners, if you've got questions, comments, et cetera., you know how to find us.

As always, the email address is connections@wxxi.org at wxxi.org.

You can call the program toll free, 8442958442958255263.

WXXI if you call from Rochester 2639994.

We're on YouTube as well.

On the WXXI News YouTube page, and you can join the chat there as well here.

So there is a Kansas based writer that I've read for years named Sarah Smarsh, and she.

Oh yeah.

And she has written, um, in some ways about her frustration at times with the Democratic Party for getting caught up probably in the culture wars and taking their eyes off what it truly means to support a working class of Americans, what it means to be for the worker and not for the management class.

And she's written books about this.

And one of the ideas, I think that that writers like Sarah have had is that if the Democratic Party were actually for the working class and the way that maybe it used to think it was or the way that it wants to be, that it that it could actually win in deep red districts, that it could win in rural areas.

Do you agree with that formulation?

>> I absolutely do, which is I'm a Roosevelt.

Um, and so and of course, that's why I, uh, Revere Hyde Park, uh, here in New York.

And so if you think about it, I don't believe any voter is off limits to our ideas and our values and making their lives better for them.

And so I think that our roots and we're now seeing this debate in the Democratic Party that I talked about earlier, which is that is the battle for the soul of the Democratic Party.

Are we going to be just a different, slightly different version of the Republican Party, or are we going to be a clear contrast in which we stand up for working families, to make them live, to help them live a better life that they can afford, that they can afford their rent, that they can afford gas that they can afford, um, you know, to get around and to be mobile and to grow and that we actually have an economy that works for them, not for the well-off, not for the rich, not for the corporations.

And frankly, I would say the state comptroller's office right now is completely AWOL in that battle.

That is not something that Tom DiNapoli is working on.

It is not something that he thinks that his office should be tackling.

And I agree that we should be growing that pension fund.

It should be growing faster and bigger and stronger under new management than it has for the last 20 years, and it can represent our values and help people live a better life.

I fundamentally believe that, and that's why I'm running.

>> Putting a bow on your Kansas career, why did you think you were able to win in a deeper red district >>?

>> I won that district, uh, twice because I was able to talk to 15,000.

You know, I knocked about 15,000 doors over two campaigns, and I could tell people that I am I am a deep progressive.

I'm going to I'm going to vote my values.

I Mai but my mission here is regardless of party is to help you have good schools and good jobs and good hospitals.

And that's what fundamentally people care about, and that's what I wish Tom DiNapoli would spend his time on.

I wish that office was fully empowered and utilized to help tackle those issues, but right now it's sitting on the sidelines and it's asleep at the wheel.

And that's why I that's why I've been so focused on the powers of this office, because one of the things that is most disturbing to me is to waste political power and talent in a time of crisis.

And we are in a five alarm fire right now for democracy.

We're seeing what's happening globally.

We're seeing what's happening here in the country, and we're seeing what Donald Trump is doing.

And we need more Democrats who fight back.

>> One of the arguments, maybe against the how viable a Mamdani kind of style politics would be elsewhere is.

Well, hey, look at Raj Goyle.

He did win in Kansas in a deep red district, but then he got tapped to run for Congress.

He runs against Mike Pompeo and he doesn't win.

And some of that idea of deep progressive politics may travel or may translate, but it's it's not good enough to win where it is purple or even where it is red in a bigger district.

What do you make of that?

>> Well, I think right now these distinctions and of course, I ran for Congress in a race in which Mike Pompeo called me a communist and a turban topper and a terrorist.

And so, you know, I've encountered I've lived a lot of those lives.

You know, I've lived a lot of, uh, I've seen a lot of political scars, uh, put it that way.

And, um, I would agree with you that of course, everything that works in a certain area doesn't quite work in another.

But I think what we're seeing right now is a recognition nationally in red, blue, upstate, downstate, that people are sick and tired of a political system that is not responsive to them and is only beholden to itself.

And I don't think you get a better contrast than this race in which you have literally an incumbent who's been in Albany for 40 years and has never investigated and never used the audit power to go after these utility companies, takes tremendous amount of political contributions from these corporate PACs.

I also happen to believe that we should not be in foreign bonds at all.

And the only candidate in this race from day one said I would cancel the foreign bond portfolio and that we should bring that money home here.

And of course, just this week it was it was revealed that Tom DiNapoli took an all expense paid trip to Israel, sponsored by the organization that he uses to actually buy these bonds.

And then he bought more bonds.

We know that he's got half $1 million in campaign contributions from law firms that he gives, that he gives multimillion dollar contracts to, um, that are very lucrative.

And so this is the kind of culture that I think repels that pay to play culture is what repels voters, regardless of where you are on the political, ideological spectrum.

Uh, and so that's why I think as particularly in Democratic circles, Evan, we're seeing a resurgence of people who want a politics that is responsive to them, regardless of what a pundit might label it.

>> My guest is Raj Goyle is running for New York State comptroller.

It's Raj Goyle.com.

And you know, you noted Raj that, you know, Drew Warsh pretty well.

And, uh, the other non-incumbent in this race.

So it's time to.

Napoli.

Drew Warsh.

Raj Goyle.

You've heard them all now on Connections and a lot of your critique.

I mean, I'm sure there are differences, but a lot of your critique of DiNapoli is similar to what Drew Warshaw is raising.

Um, you know, for, for voters who may be in.

>> In a vice versa, if I could say.

>> Oh, I'm not trying.

Okay, fair enough.

I'm not trying to raise one over the other.

I'm simply pointing out that there may be voters, there may be plenty of voters who really feel like your message is compelling, and they're wondering why there are two candidates opposing DiNapoli to do that.

Was that ever a conversation that you had with drew or that he had with you?

>> Well, you know, I have known drew a long time.

Obviously, anybody is welcome to get into this get and run for office, of course.

Yeah.

You know, and, and, and everybody has their, uh, their right to run.

And so, you know, in this case, I'm very proud of the campaign we've run and we have gotten our message out there.

I am proud we certainly raised more financial resources and had a lot of grassroots energy to power our campaign.

So I do think that we have a historic opportunity to unseat Tom in 20 days.

And of course, we're each running our own campaign.

>> So let's talk about some of the issues that you've been talking about.

And I want to work through them one by one so our audience can really understand where you are on them and how you would define them.

One of the things that that you talk about in one of your campaign videos is a pretty powerful story about medical bills.

You say that your daughter was born and needed intensive care, and you end up getting billed $50,000 for being out of network.

You said that only a few months after your father passed away, you were billed for blood tests.

That never even happened.

And those are very compelling stories, and they are unfortunately, sadly, somewhat pretty, pretty relatable for a lot of people.

But what does it have to do with the job of comptroller?

>> Well, I think what's really important is, as I mentioned, those stories and unfortunately, they are so, so common are what people are facing on a daily basis.

And so, for example, the state comptroller in other states, the state treasurer has actually helped tackle medical debt by working with the legislature.

Tom Napoli's not been in that game whatsoever.

We have a sweeping, devastating Trump budget, which is going to which is taking a meat cleaver to Medicaid.

7 million New Yorkers on Medicaid right here in New York.

And Tom Napoli has been largely absent from that fight.

This office, if it was on its toes, should be having hearings all over the state should be raising the alarm, should be should be having an impact analysis by region, by understanding exactly what needs to happen to do everything we can to combat these cuts.

And so medical debt is, of course, something that we are all living with.

I'm sure it's maybe something that's hit your family as well.

And so I raise that issue because it is yet another example of how this affordability crisis is choking the lives of New Yorkers and how we need to have this office be responsive to it and not avoid it.

>> Okay, so let's work through one by one here.

I want to talk about housing first here.

You said that you want to change how the comptroller invests money in housing.

We're talking about managing $280 billion.

And you don't like what this comptroller has done, and you do it differently.

It diagnose the problem as you see it, and then take us through what you would do.

>> Yeah, I would say two things, which is really most important, which is right now, Tom DiNapoli doesn't have an agenda for affordable housing here in New York and throughout New York State.

Even the city comptroller in New York City, Mark Levine, just announced recently a $4 billion initiative in New York City to build a to build affordable housing.

And so and Tom Napoli has said explicitly that he doesn't view it in his purview to invest in that.

I could just couldn't disagree in a in a debt and equity.

There are projects all over the state in which you could invest and get a great return while you're building affordable homes for New Yorkers.

And that is and that is what's that's what's absolutely, uh, pivotal to do.

And so, you know, here you've got what the, you know, the, the high prices.

I mean, you're thinking about median income and Rochester, Monroe County, around 50,000 bucks, uh, you know, very, very expensive to, to buy a home.

Uh, and of course, even to afford rent there.

So what I would say is that the state comptroller should be not only empowering the fund by cleaning up these excessive Wall Street fees, but we can invest in housing projects all across the state.

And he's sending money now out of state.

You know, I put in our launch video.

I think you I appreciate you watching that, which is we've got we've got precious dollars going to Orlando and going to Chicago, and it's not going upstate to actually say, how can we help the people of New York live a better life there?

That's what we mean by by actually investing in affordable housing.

>> I can't speak for the comptroller, and he has been on this program, um, to talk in his own words.

But, you know, I suspect he may say, look, you're starting to get outside the scope of the comptroller's office to some degree.

He is not here trying to invest money in ways that are detrimental to New York or detrimental to to values.

He is relying on smart investment advice that he gets from others.

He's trying to get a good return so he can manage New York New Yorkers money well, and he can manage a pension fund well.

And that are you you know, I'm wondering if you think you're getting outside the scope of what the comptroller should be doing.

>> I just could not disagree.

I could not disagree more.

Uh, and in fact, that concept, um, let's actually break that down on, on two fronts.

So he's saying that he's relying on sound financial advice.

That's sound financial advice has had the state pension fund underperform the market.

And moreover, has not followed the actions of many other state treasurers, other pension funds which have successfully invested in affordable housing.

It's not because he shouldn't do it.

It's because he doesn't want to do it.

And that's a difference of political will.

Moreover, this smart, political, uh, sorry, smart financial advice you're mentioning, it isn't free.

It's costing us nearly $1 billion for many of these folks who are not even performing, who are actually costing us money.

It's a double whammy.

You know, one story I always like to tell, uh, Evan, is that, you know, everyone I think knows who Warren Buffett is.

And so if Warren Buffett had set up his company, Berkshire Hathaway, as a closed end hedge fund, it would be worth eight times less than it is now as a public company, because of the cancerous nature of fees and the way that it's so corrosive, so Tom DiNapoli is, of course, spending billions of our dollars on these Wall Street fees.

We're not getting getting anything out of it in return.

And so that's why I couldn't, I couldn't fund, I couldn't disagree more fundamentally that we should that we can do these things and get a good return.

On DiNapoli is way of thinking about this is frankly, you know, from a different era.

>> Okay.

And so this also brings us to how money is invested and where it sort of ends up.

And you're talking often about investing money that goes to, well, you mentioned Palantir.

Um, you've mentioned Tesla.

You've mentioned Magna supported firms.

And I want you to describe how you would go about making sure that if you are the comptroller, that that money isn't going ever to those places.

>> Well, it's a very simple process because of course, Tom is the sole trustee.

The comptroller can make unilateral decisions, unlike most pension funds, which have a board process.

And so the point is really about leverage, which is why Elon Musk was literally taking a chainsaw, sitting on stage with Donald Trump, costing us money, causing unnecessary deaths here and abroad, taking a wrecking ball to the government.

We were still propping up companies that he runs.

And I'll give you a great example, Evan, around SpaceX.

I don't know if you've if you've tracked this at all, but the index funds are being corrupted and manipulated as we speak for the SpaceX IPO next week.

And that's to make Elon Musk because he has this insane goal of being the world's first trillionaire, uh, which is just mind boggling on every aspect.

And we are eroding, chief protections, very key protections for average investors.

All of us are going to be holding space because he's bullying the index funds to erode basic investor protections.

Where is Tom DiNapoli?

With the leverage of the $300 billion pension fund standing up for the American investor and standing up for the average American, he's not in that battle.

And we should be.

And Palantir, let me be very specific about this, because and if you if you had time on the show, I would encourage you please to press him on this.

He put in Q1 of 2025, they bought Palantir stock.

He claims it was in an in an index fund, but less than six months later, it's he's up to nearly half $1 billion of value of Palantir stock.

The S&P doesn't change its weighting like that.

That means they're actively buying that stock.

So you earlier were sort of positively mentioning well, he's got these financial advisors, these financial advisors are buying are buying up a stock that New Yorkers don't want us in.

And we don't need to be in for a healthy return.

>> Yeah, to be clear, I'm simply relaying what the comptroller has said, which is, of course, that he is trying to do nothing but handle the money intelligently and rely on people who are, you know, who are paid to evaluate this stuff.

And I, you know.

>> If I could.

>> Yeah, yeah.

>> Go ahead.

I think.

>> That right there is the point.

So this gets to the very essence of the critique, which is, he says, I'm basically what is he just a he's just there as a caretaker.

He's just a, a puppet that says, oh, what am I supposed to do?

I'm just bobbing in the ocean here.

I just pay some people and I hire some people.

And geez, I haven't been indicted personally.

Um, although, of course his deputy did go to jail for taking bribes and misallocating billions of dollars of pension fund money.

We have law firms who he's giving contracts to give him half $1 million of campaign, uh, contributions.

Uh, it's a very, in my view, unusual and strange conception of the role, which is, is simply to say he's not accountable for anything.

And yet and yet here he is wanting a sixth term.

>> Well, and so part of what he also argued on this program is that divesting to, to peel out individual categories of investment, whether it's a firm like Palantir, whether it's a category like fossil fuels, is not as simple as just checking a box and pushing a button that, you know, he didn't come out and say it would be impossible on this program.

But he said it's it is being played up in this campaign to be a lot easier than that would be.

>> Well, I can't speak to it.

Seems like anything that helps New Yorkers is difficult for Tom DiNapoli, and therefore he doesn't really want to do it.

Um, the New York City pension fund, which is, by the way, basically the same size as the state pension fund, successfully divested from fossil fuels, period.

And that, by the way, has five pension funds, uh, with, uh, very, very complicated board structures.

They were able to do it pension funds and endowments all over the world have been able.

Tom just doesn't want to do it.

And maybe he doesn't know how to do it, but that's why we need change.

And so, you know, and divesting from Palantir, to just be very clear, is his people are actively buying up the stock.

They can obviously actively sell the stock.

And this is we can have our returns and our values simply.

Tom, again, seems to always argue that he just shouldn't be held accountable for anything that he's not responsible for the fact that he's been in one of the most powerful jobs in New York for 20 years.

And what's happened in those 20 years, costs have skyrocketed.

We're choking on the affordability crisis.

Democrats have let Donald Trump win two of three presidential elections.

I think I would humbly suggest that we can use this office to do better.

>> So in a moment, what we'll do after our only break is we'll, uh, we'll take some emails on some of the subjects we've talked about, and then we'll go, um, a little farther afield with Raj Goyle, who is running for New York State comptroller.

One other point on this that I want to ask you about related to the pension fund.

You've said not only that, that you can grow the pension fund, you can do better, that you can beat the market, or at least equal the market, and that the current comptroller has failed to meet the market's gains.

But you've also said that you can you can tell New Yorkers you'd put more money in their pensions, not just the pension fund, but New Yorkers would have more money in their pensions.

Is that over promising?

>> Well, to be clear, if you have.

>> A larger pension fund, of course, each individual pensioner has a defined benefit pension plan based on their years of service.

And of course, we just had this compromise on tier six.

And so but over time, even if you grew the pension fund and it was actually a fatter fund, of course, what you could do is you could potentially increase the rate of return.

You could, in fact, with draw down or decrease the employer contributions and the employee contributions.

In the past, the pension fund used to do that actually, when there were when there were stronger years, they would try to dial that down.

But the current way that it, because of the current structure, which is operating as it is, if you actually had more money, you actually can then think about putting more money in people's pockets.

Yes, putting more money in their pensions.

And again, we're talking over time.

And so individual pensioners, if there was more money, like take a state budget when Ty flush and they and there is more money, we divide that pie and we try to distribute it more fairly and to more people.

And the same concept goes with a pension fund.

If the pension fund was $350 billion, as opposed to $300 billion and was divided among the same amount of retirees, yes, we could have a conversation around the fact that we could distribute more in the formula of what people actually get in their defined benefit pension plan.

>> Okay.

I can understand that it is potential.

There's a potential to have that conversation, but simply growing, if you became comptroller and all of a sudden we did better in growing the pension fund, that doesn't automatically de facto mean people get more in their pensions.

Fair.

>> No, of course people are.

People are contractually obligated to get the pension funds in their defined benefit pension plan.

Right.

Based on the current formula, no question.

But once you have a better managed fund and you had more money, you could of course, the formula can be changed at any time.

And if it could be made more generous for the pensioners.

In fact, current, uh, the current crop of pensioners, we should consider that.

>> All right.

Let's take this only break of the hour questions from the audience for Raj Goyle, who's running for New York State comptroller on the other side of this break?

Coming up in our second hour, we meet some Rochester City School District students who are getting ready for the second annual Flower City Frenzy Robotics Competition this weekend.

But it feels a little different now.

Robotics has always been interesting for outsiders to observe, but now with AI and these companies making robots that can do a whole lot more than they used to, what's the human element here?

We'll talk to the students about that next hour.

>> Support for your public radio station comes from our members and from Mary Cariola, center, proud supporter of Connections with Evan Dawson.

Believing an informed and engaged community is a connected one, Mary cariola.org.

>> This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

All right.

First up, William and Rochester emails to ask a number of questions here.

He says, uh.

Will the candidate fully divest from Israel, i.e., and this is, in William's words, those pesky bonds Raj.

>> I am the only candidate in this race and have said from day one that I will cancel the entire foreign bond portfolio.

Um, and I will of course, on on minute one, sell those bonds.

And I have also been very clear that I do believe Benjamin Netanyahu is a war criminal.

I do believe that we are witnessing a very horrible and sad genocide in Gaza.

Um, that has not been a and of course, Tom DiNapoli, as I mentioned earlier, just this week, the Intercept revealed startling news that he took an all expense paid trip to Israel, sponsored by the organization.

Uh, that facilitates those bonds.

And then, of course, he increased the position in those bonds.

Tom DiNapoli has has been very, very clear on the entire foreign bond portfolio, which is, you know, we have over 200 countries in the world.

He has the overwhelming majority in one country in Israel.

I will bring that entire bond portfolio home here to New York.

And so we know Tom's position.

And I do think it's worth noting that, um, you know, the other candidate in this race was, was for the bonds, um, you know, as, as recently as just a few months ago and, you know, respect the fact that he's changed his position on that, but on one of real moral clarity and, uh, and conviction like this, I think consistency is very, very important.

And, uh, you know, from day one and it's cost me, uh, to be clear, I have lost friends, I have lost supporters.

Um, I have received a very, very healthy amount of criticism for my view on this, but I'm sticking with this position because I believe it's the right thing to do.

>> Next question from William is, will he fully divest from fossil fuels such as Exxon?

We've talked about that.

The answer from the candidate is that he would be able to do that.

The third question from William is, um, would the candidate fully divest from arms manufacturers such as Raytheon and Boeing?

>> Well, I think what has to happen is what I've talked about is that we have a values screen in the pension fund.

And Evan, you asked me about this earlier, which is we have to take a good look at.

And there is a human rights standard, which is.

I believe that if there are, uh, you know, obviously it would take a look at any investment in the pension fund.

The point is obviously to grow that fund, and it is not to play politics and look for every single company that obviously, uh, offends some people's values.

But if there's a clear like, as I said, like on Palantir, on the foreign bonds, and if there are companies that are violating our, our values, then I'll certainly take a good look and very open to divesting.

>> Okay.

Um, William, thank you for the email.

Let me get a phone call from David.

>> Thank you.

>> William.

Hey, David.

Go ahead.

>> Oh, well, thanks.

Uh, yeah, I'm calling you from out in San Francisco, and I heard you mention that, uh, boycotting, uh, Exxon would be a smart idea.

And actually, uh, Chevron used to be based right out here in the San Francisco Bay.

And every day that they were operational, they were polluting the bay.

And so to shut them down was actually an advantage to San Francisco because there was less pollution.

And I'm wondering about being able to calculate externalized costs into the advantage of the taxpayers.

So, for example, if gasoline prices are going crazy and they're going to continue to go crazy because there's never going to be a settlement as long as profiteers are involved in the negotiations, then create a mass transit system that works for the entire state, not just for the New York metro area, but for the entire state.

And so that the money that people would drop in the gas station, it actually gets put back into their pockets and comes back in revenues, in sales tax for things that they buy once they get to their destination.

>> David.

Thank you.

Raj what do you think, David?

>> I appreciate the question very much.

And I think it's great that we have a caller out in California.

Uh, so a couple of things I would say to that, which is, um, it is clear and as I mentioned earlier, that we can divest the pension fund from fossil fuels.

And again, I'm the only candidate in this race from day one who said I would do that.

And I've been consistent on that, I think to your larger point around mass transit, of course, in, um, you know, in Rochester, you have the BTS and, um, if there was anything that the, that an audit could do that would be helpful to, uh, to the area, I of course, will embark on that.

And of course, we should be having more public transit because if it's proven that that is what is that?

Not only is it good for our environment and good for our planet, but we've proven, particularly in the New York City metro area, the power of mass transit and the power of public transit.

That being said, a huge area of opportunity is the MTA budget, and I have promised to audit the MTA aggressively and fearlessly, and to find out and to call out anything that is that is excessive.

We are still spending vast amounts of money that that many people have said is unnecessary.

The cost per subway mile here in New York City is is hugely larger than most other major cities in the world.

You know, we could we can very likely do better.

Um, and if I could, you know, one of the things that I've mentioned before is about utility rates, and I've been mentioning this audit power.

So to your question is take this Public Service Commission.

It's a very small, uh, an obscure but extraordinarily powerful agency in Albany.

The utility companies go to that agency, to the PSC, say that we want rate hikes, and then they go into secret settlement discussions.

Very little transparency.

And the PSC basically says, sure.

And they have some, you know, jawing back and forth.

But that has been the tradition.

These utility companies have become Frankensteins.

They the the CEO of con Ed, uh, you know, gets paid $20 million a year.

They have a guaranteed rate of return on their equity, which is sort of crazy.

When I ran a business, you know, I wish I had had those kind of favorable terms.

And we have lost our way completely on, on utilities.

And that's why they keep jacking up our prices.

And that is an example of not only and the state pension fund is invested in several of these public these publicly traded utility companies.

So that's an example of how a comptroller, both using the audit authority, using the shareholder power can can help bring down utility rates, which which I will which I will work every fiber of my being to help make happen, but also do something that's good for the environment.

>> David, thank you for the phone call.

Uh, let me get a couple emails from Dallas and Dallas and not the state.

The person in this case here, David David called from California.

Dallas is in Rochester.

Uh, Dallas says in response to your to your response to William's email, he says, it sounds like candidate Goyle owns Raytheon stock.

Do you want to put that to bed?

>> Uh, I don't believe I own any, uh, any Raytheon stock, uh, but I will, uh, but we'll circle back.

>> Well, and so look, I mean, he's being a little cheeky listening to your response there, but I right.

This is where I think it is fair to kind of make sure that we put a fine point on this.

You've talked about the way the current comptroller chooses to invest in housing in Orlando and not, in your view, more more affordable housing for New Yorkers or for in Palantir, in Tesla, in other stocks, in fossil fuels.

These are sometimes categories or sometimes individual stocks that you think should be out of bounds.

But, you know, then you say like, well, you know, Raytheon, we can look at that.

We can look at, you know, gun manufacturers, but we still have an obligation to make money.

And I want to make sure I understand.

I mean, is obligation, number one, to invest and make the most money possible?

Or is it to say, we're going to make the most money possible within a set of values?

And if the opportunity to make more money for our fund is there, but it goes outside of our values, we're not taking it.

>> It's the latter.

And you know this this is the way that many, many modern fund management works and is is something that, of course, you have to take a look at every investment.

And I will just say very quickly, because it was asked about, I'm.

I have pledged to put all my personal investments in a blind trust.

I can't believe that Tom DiNapoli actually still trades individual stocks while he's managing the pension fund.

And some of those stocks are actually in the pension fund.

And so I have been very clear about my personal finances.

And I have said, look, I will be I will put my money in a blind trust when elected, and I won't even know what is happening in my personal portfolio.

And I think that's an obligation.

I can't stand these members of Congress trading stocks and trading positions.

Um, I think it you know, it angers a lot of people certainly, certainly angers me.

Uh, as to your question about the values of what we invest in, DiNapoli himself divested from gun manufacturers after he was criticized after Sandy hook.

It took him a long time.

He, of course, has a political position when it comes to the Israel bonds.

That is actually that is a that is a political, um, obviously position.

It doesn't make really any financial sense.

Uh, and so we can, we should, and I will ask state Comptroller, lay out what the value systems are.

And of course, now, uh, you know, that will be my obligation when I am elected state comptroller.

We will look at the entire fund and we will find out exactly what what companies we believe.

Um, violate our values.

We know that Palantir does.

We know that these foreign bonds do.

And of course, if there's more, we'll happily take those on.

And that's part of the job.

When I'm elected.

>> The other part of Dallas email is something that you you alluded to when you talked about your position on Israel, Gaza and genocide and, and the cost that you have occasionally paid, but the reasons that you haven't moved off of that position?

Dallas, here's you describe that.

And he says hating Jews is a winning democratic strategy.

I know you've heard that.

So I want you to to address people who hear you on this issue and equate that to hating Jews.

>> Well, obviously, I couldn't disagree with that more.

That's deeply, deeply hurtful.

And of course, um, uh, all I could say to that is I have nothing but love and admiration for my Jewish brothers and sisters, uh, here in New York and, and around the world.

I have talked about the rising scourge of anti-Semitism, which is very, very real.

We must do everything we can to combat that.

Um, but of course, you know, the reality is, and this is a dividing line, which is, I believe, that criticism of a foreign state and a foreign military is not the same thing as, as, as being anti-Semitic.

And I have great respect and admiration for people who, uh, think differently on that.

But that is just something we're going to have to agree to disagree on.

But let me let me be very, very clear that I'm a former civil rights lawyer.

I worked at the ACLU.

I have stood up.

I was raised in a very, very conservative area, someone who was of color on the first of my family born in this this country, the immigrant experience is very, very real and personal to me.

And so I can't stand and will never stand for discrimination of any kind on any person, on any grounds.

Uh, it's not the New York way.

It's not the American way.

And I'll go to my grave with that belief.

>> Uh, all right, this next question, a little less heat.

In fact, this is maybe the most important question of the hour here.

This is from Wendy or Wendy's comment.

She says it's controller, not controller.

Why did Tom DiNapoli say controller?

It's just not right.

I've been told Raj you can say either.

I don't know the actual answer here.

>> Um, you mean you could say controller or controller?

Yes.

Or I thought I thought you say the debate is is it controller or controller?

I thought it was more the emphasis on the wrong syllable.

>> Debate.

See, this is the most question of the hour, but your understanding.

It's not controller.

Is that correct?

>> Well, it's certainly not controller.

The the job is in the Constitution controller.

And as I said, typically the debate has been over what, which, uh, which syllable that you emphasize.

I happen to say controller.

I, I hit it hard on the, on the first syllable.

Um, and some people say controller and, uh, so we're going to have to, we're going to have to rage on that debate for a long, long time.

>> And there.

>> You go.

And as I said that, it's certainly the most vital question of the day.

>> How about this?

Uh, if more people know who the controller is or the controller is, you won't care how they pronounce it.

You'll just probably be happy that they know who it is.

Is that fair?

>> I would agree with that.

>> Look, I do think that it is important.

If I'm not mistaken, I believe in Florida.

I you know, it's more like the the treasure rule they renamed it the CFO.

And, um, I certainly am open to a discussion around renaming the office because I do think that the more that, you know, in all seriousness, jokes aside, the more that we have people understand and that there is more transparency.

You know, you saw in my launch, I talked about the Albany insiders.

They don't want you to know how powerful this office is.

They don't want to be held accountable for all the things this office could do to make your life better.

And the more that we bring that out of the shadows, for good or bad, I need to be held accountable.

You know, should I be honored to win this election and to win this office, I need to be held accountable each and every day, and I welcome that responsibility.

I treasure it, and I think Tom DiNapoli probably has a different view of that.

>> All right, back to email and then I'll grab a phone call.

Greg emails to say Evan Mamdani won in New York City.

He would not win in Monroe County.

He would certainly not win in Kansas.

What does your guest think?

>> Well, obviously I'm running my race.

And so, you know, Zoran is his own person and I'm running for the state controller.

And I would be honored to earn votes in New York City and Monroe County and Rochester, Western New York, North County, wherever it is.

Um, you know, I'm running in all corners to say that I believe that this agenda is the one that we need to tackle the affordability crisis to fight Donald Trump and to make sure that we have the best opportunity for New Yorkers to live a better life.

We can cut utility rates, we can cut Wall Street fees, we can invest in affordable housing.

We can get ice out of New York.

I believe that's a mainstream agenda that's not associated with a particular faction or, frankly, even party.

You know, I'm very heartened by the fact that there is I saw that there was a Republican, uh, elected official who was against an Ice detention center in Orange County.

Um, you know, I applaud that kind of courage.

But here in the Democratic Party where we know that where we have to stand up and fight, we do need better Democrats, people who stand up for these issues.

And that's why I think we're resonating with people all across the state.

>> Got a couple of emails from people want to know if you would, as comptroller, oppose call centers or data centers.

Data centers, I think is the question on AI.

And if there is a role for the comptroller's office in this.

>> Absolutely.

In fact, I've talked about being the affordability watchdog, and I've talked about how we can audit the Public Service Commission.

I'm glad this question was raised.

Um, I do support the proposed moratorium on data centers.

I think it's very, very important that we take a pause on this.

And in fact, in my utility regulation and my utility watchdog proposal, I was very clear that, as I mentioned, we will open the books of these utility companies via auditing the Public Service Commission, claw back money on rate hikes that they have unnecessarily gotten.

And I also think that we shouldn't be subsidizing Google and Jeff Bezos and and the tech and big tech and these data centers.

You know, I heard the governor said she wants to be a local issue.

Yes, of course, it should be a local issue to make sure that we're not taking that we're not polluting our water, we're not trampling on our land, that the noise concerns are addressed, but we can't have a rush.

We can't have a big tech gold rush here on the backs of local community.

Um, we must make sure.

And as comptroller, I would use that audit of power and of course would work the legislature and I would be a fierce advocate to make sure that we are not subsidizing data centers and that we're making sure they only proceed when we have a clear set of rules that have local community engagement.

And that's why I support Torium as well.

>> All right.

Let me get Andrew in Rochester on the phone.

Hey, Andrew.

Go ahead.

>> Hey, Raj.

Hey, Raj.

Look, you you want to divest that of all the all the stuff that doesn't meet your progressive religion.

And you should read John chapter nine a couple of times, like three times so that you can figure out how cruel religion is.

But what if you upend the whole pension system, and it doesn't make any more?

I mean, it falls short.

It doesn't.

It wouldn't.

The local property tax people, uh, payers have to pay more to meet the pensions for all the firefighters and teachers.

>> Hey.

>> Uh, Andrew.

Evan, I think I heard that question.

Oh, yeah?

>> Yeah.

Did you not hear the, the totality of the question?

Raj.

>> Oh, wow.

This is on my end.

>> 000.

If he's not hearing, let's make sure Raj can hear.

>> Okay.

>> Hold on a second here, Andrew.

We've just got a tech issue.

Raj just trying to figure it out, I know.

Raj can you hear us?

Let's.

>> Can you hear me?

>> I, I can hear you.

Can you hear us?

>> Uh, Evan?

>> Evan, do you still have me?

I'm sorry.

>> For that.

>> I, I can hear you.

Raja.

Oh, boy.

Why don't we do this?

Why don't why don't we, um, see if we can get Raj back here for the last few minutes?

>> Yes.

>> Yes, yes.

>> Oh, you got me back here.

Do we have your Raj?

Oh, man.

This is rough.

Okay, let's let's let's cut Raja end here.

And what we'll do is.

Andrew, do me a favor.

Andrew, explain something to me.

Are you still there?

Andrew?

Yeah.

Explain something to me.

What is your.

Do you use the term progressive religion and you.

And you want them to study up on religion?

>> Yeah.

>> That is your characterization of a set.

>> Of values.

Hear me now.

>> Um, I can hear you.

Raj.

Can you hear us?

That's the problem, guys.

Let's cut his mic.

>> And.

>> Jump in and and, and I.

>> Oh.

>> Go ahead.

Raj.

Yeah.

If you can hear us, go ahead.

>> I.

>> I apologize.

One, one thing we're going to have to do as a, as controller is make sure that we have a greater, uh, greater bandwidth.

Uh, you know, I don't know what's happening with spectrum here.

Um, so if you can hear me, you know, the question I'll leave aside, I respect all religions.

And of course, I, my, my policy positions have nothing to do with religious fervor.

They have to do with making life better for New Yorkers.

But the specific question was around the fact that, yes, the local property tax issue is a great one to raise, which is what happens now, is that local the state pension fund, of course, has government employees.

And so their employer, local government.

And so the contribution into the pension fund for those individuals pension is funded by property taxes.

If we manage the fund better and smarter, cut Wall Street fees, we could in fact reduce property taxes.

And to the implication of the question that somehow the policies I'm suggesting, uh, would would harm the fund, much to the contrary.

Right now, the pension fund should be managed and should be performing better than it is.

As I said, there are many examples of pension funds that have, in fact, the New York City pension fund increased its value after it divested from fossil fuels.

So we will manage this fund ruthlessly and efficiently and grow it.

And therefore, yes, we can indeed reduce property taxes if we continue to grow the fund properly.

>> Raja, I want to thank you for the time.

I don't even know if you can hear me anymore, but I just want to say, um.

Thank you.

Thank you for hanging in with all The tech here.

I'm going to squeeze one last question.

We got to do this in like 20s.

Maureen in Canisius says as a lifelong New York State public employee and current retiree, I want to know how you are addressing Nysut and other public employee unions unflagging support for DiNapoli.

Are they being duped by the current corporate party?

That's Maureen and Canisius.

Can you do that in like 25 30s?

>> I work closely with Nissa to get the cell phone ban in public schools through.

I'm very proud of that.

And of course, I do support the tier six reform.

That just happened.

Of course, it was a compromise measure, but when I'm elected I will work closely with anybody that is doing good work for New York.

People who have supported my opponent or not.

And of course, you know, if you have a any concerns with Nysut, please, please feel free to voice that.

I would have you know, I'd love I know they're endorsed my opponent and work with them, but I will work hand in glove with anybody to make life better for you and for New Yorkers.

And of course, protect our education system.

>> The candidate's website is Raj Goyle.

Goyle.com.

You've now heard all three candidates on the Democratic primary ballot.

That's Drew Warshaw, Thomas DiNapoli, Raj Goyle for New York State Comptroller.

Raj.

Either way, win or lose, I hope you come back on this program and keep talking to us.

And thank you for making time for listeners to hear you today.

>> I'd be honored.

Thanks so much, Evan.

>> That's Raj Goyle, New York State comptroller candidate voting happening in 20 days officially.

And then we'll know who the candidate on the Democratic side will be.

More Connections coming up in just a moment.

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