Lakeland Currents.

Your public affairs program for north central Minnesota.

Production funding for Lakeland Currents is made possible by Bemidji Regional Airports serving the region with daily flights to Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport.

More information available at bemidjiairport.org.

Closed captioning for Lakeland Currents is sponsored by Nisswa Tax Service.

Tax preparation for businesses and individuals online at nisswatax.com.

Hello again friends, I'm Jason Edens your host of Lakeland Currents.

Thanks for joining the conversation today and thanks for your ongoing support of Lakeland Public Broadcasting.

The Muslim population in Minnesota is growing and currently stands at about 150,000 people which is two and a half percent of the state's population.

It's an important time of year for Minnesota's Muslim community and for the nearly two billion Muslims around the world.

It's the month of Ramadan.

I think it's fair to say that many of us know woefully little about the Islamic faith which can have negative and even dire consequences such as Islamophobia which is why I've invited our guest today, to help us better understand the cultural and religious significance of Ramadan.

Mr. John Emery is the Executive Director of the Islamic Resource Group based here in Minnesota.

John, welcome to the program and thanks for making time for our conversation.

Oh thank you so much for having me.

I'm curious if you can tell us just a little bit about the Islamic Resource Group and what is it exactly?

Thank you.

So, the Islamic Resource Group, we're a Minnesota non-profit.

We've been around over 20 years.

I think this is our 21st year right now that we're in.

We were founded again in 2001 as an organization just to help educate Minnesotans about the Muslim experience.

So we really believe that education is critical to intercultural understanding and cooperation.

So, to that mission or to that belief, we've been in training for the past 20 years or so, Muslim speakers to go around to different audiences all across the state and in fact the five-state area just to talk about what it means to be Muslim.

So, where might a speaker go for example?

Oftentimes, most often actually, we're helping facilitate learning for, you know, high school students and middle school students.

So, since learning about the five major world religions is a part of the state school curriculum oftentimes teachers around the state, you know, the average Minnesota school teacher doesn't have a personal experience or deep knowledge about what it means to be Muslim.

So, they'll invite in one of our speakers just to share with the students a little, you know, authentic experience about what it means to be Muslim as opposed to simply learning it straight from the textbook which you know a little dry and boring.

So, schools are a big audience for us, you know, from actually from kindergarten all the way up to college level.

The other thing is, we often we do a lot of interfaith, so we travel to churches all across the state and the five state region just doing interfaith conversations, making connections, building bridges, understanding how we can work together as faith communities to achieve, you know, social justice and positive ends and good work in the world.

But, we also do diversity training for like businesses, for governments, as well as law enforcement as well.

So, we speak in healthcare too.

We speak to a wide variety of audiences just to help them achieve their goals.

Oftentimes again if it's a public-facing institution like maybe again a hospital or something like that, we can come help facilitate some conversations and how they can provide better services to their Muslim patients.

Are your speakers of all ages?

Oh, my goodness yes.

Yeah we have it's a great range.

Just one of our newest speakers, she is a freshman at the University of Minnesota and I think our oldest, one of our, we have speakers who actually are still with us after 20 years who founded the organization, who are you know getting kind of not elderly but you know elder folks in our community.

So, it's a really broad range of experience and diverse backgrounds because we also reflect in our speaker base, the diversity within the local Muslim community.

So, obviously here in Minnesota we have a majority of East Africans in the Muslim community but we have Muslims from, you know, everywhere that a Muslim can come from in the world and our speaker base, our volunteer speakers reflect that diversity so both in terms of, you know, nation of origin, age, you know, experience, you know, men and women so it's a it's a real diverse community so when, you know, somebody invites in a speaker, sometimes you're gonna, you know, you don't know who you're gonna get but it's gonna be somebody with an interesting background and story to share with you.

So, it's a lot of fun.

You know, this is true for any world faith but there's sort of a fine line between education and proselytizing right?

So, how do you navigate or negotiate that space?

Yeah, that's great, that's really important to us because for Islamic Resource Group most of our presentations or dialogues are done in public space right?

In a space which is not sort of a faith setting right?

So, we do, like I said we go to churches and other houses of worship but most of the time we're in schools or you know businesses or something like that right?

So, we've always drawn, you know, been very careful to navigate that space in the sense that we believe in education.

So, we talk about about, you know, what it means to be Muslim, what our experiences are and we talk about the faith of Islam without teaching the faith right?

That's an important distinction to us and we also very very much believe in, you know, the principle of the First Amendment right?

So, we do not proselytize right?

We do not promote or denigrate any particular faith.

So, when our speakers, you know, we're all very carefully vetted and trained so that when, you know, we talk about what it means to be Muslim.

We are again speaking about the faith as opposed to proselytizing or promoting the faith right?

That's very important to us especially in, you know, school spaces.

Absolutely.

Yeah, so again we do want to provide that personal experience, you know, what does it mean to be Muslim but on the other hand, like I said it is an educational opportunity.

It's not an opportunity for us to, you know, as you say to proselytize.

Well, as I mentioned just a moment ago, this is a very important time of the year for nearly two billion people on the planet.

However, some of our viewers may not be familiar with Ramadan.

So, I was wondering if you could just simply define it and help us basically understand what it is, what is Ramadan?

Yeah, there's so many approaches we can take to the topic.

It's so vast and again for Muslims who are, you know, practicing, it's such a rewarding and I guess a deep, you know, practice right and time of the year.

So, but I'll approach simply like the basics.

What is it sort of mechanically?

So, Ramadan, first of all, is the name of the ninth month on the Islamic calendar and what Muslims believe and of course Muslims believe in a loving, merciful God and Muslims believe there are certain things that they should be doing throughout their lives.

And there's five core actions and we refer to these oftentimes and people may have heard like the five pillars of Islam right, which includes things like the testimony of faith and prayer, giving a wealth tax every year, making the pilgrimage every year or not excuse me making the pilgrimage at least once in a Muslim person's lifetime and so fasting is one of those five pillars and Muslims believe that God commands Muslims in the Quran, the sacred text of Islam, to fast during the month of Ramadan so that you might become more righteous or might become, what's another way, more pious people or another way of paraphrasing that would be fast during the month of Ramadan so that you might improve your relationship with God right?

A favorite scholar I listen to often expresses it that way.

So and how it works is Muslim, so during the month of Ramadan which is usually about 30 days, Muslims fast every day from dawn until sunset right?

So, starting dawn, I believe dawn for me this morning was 5 AM.

Sunset today for where I live is 8 PM.

So that means from 5 AM till 8 PM, you know, me and other Muslims in my, you know, in my city who are fasting, will be fasting from five till eight and what that means as well for Muslims, because I know we've got kind, of it's beautiful this year because we have this overlap with sacred time this year in terms of Lent and Passover and Ramadan, different fasting times for these different communities.

So, for Muslims what fasting means is abstaining from all food and all drink during the daylight hours, dawn until sunset.

Including water?

Not even water all day long.

At sunset, once Muslims break their fast, traditionally very, you know, with maybe some dates and milk, traditionally something kind of a light and do their sunset prayer and then, you know, and then eat their dinner after the sunset prayer is done.

And then during the nighttime hours, when Muslims aren't sleeping or praying or you know engaging in other acts of worship, they can eat and drink normally but then waking up early before dawn and having a light breakfast and then again fasting the next day for the 30 days of Ramadan.

So, Ramadan is the ninth month in the Islamic calendar.

So, does that mean then that Ramadan occurs at different times of the year each year?

Yeah, exactly right.

That's an important distinction because it's always the ninth month of the year on the Islamic calendar but what's unique or different about the Islamic calendar is that it's a Lunar calendar.

So, right, the January, February, March, right, that's based on the sun.

It's a solar calendar.

Sure.

Right?

So, you know the seasons come at the same, right, the same months, well, hopefully they come at the same months every year right?

We're a little late on spring this year but be that as it may, so what that means is for Ramadan, it's Lunar and the Lunar calendar is 11 days shorter.

So every year Ramadan arrives 11 days earlier.

I see.

So, one of the really fun things that I've experienced in I think about 18 years of fasting for me since I've been a Muslim is that no two Ramadans are ever quite the same because it's not a seasonal holiday right?

Every Ramadan brings its own sort of just different joys with it because the day length is changing right?

I started fasting I believe it was fall, so shorter days, cooler weather and then, you know, through my life as a Muslim, you know, Ramadan traveled through the summer, summer solstice, the longest day of the year right?

Very hot long days for us and then now we're kind of approaching, I think in about 10 years or so Muslims at least in Minnesota or in Minnesota or a year excuse me all over the world, Muslims will be fasting around Christmas time, you know and again which for us is the shortest day of the year right?

Sure.

So, yeah it's every year it brings its fresh challenges and fresh rewards right?

Either be day length or temperature because this is the first Ramadan I can remember that, you know, there's been snow on the ground right?

So, we have a very cool Ramadan this year whereas like I said previous years, you know, it's been very warm or even hot.

That's really interesting, that there's this geographic component right?

So, does that mean then that during the month of Ramadan depending on where a practicing Muslim lives, the length of the fast will vary?

Yeah, again so I think in terms of the practice of being Muslim oftentimes the practices are very much connected, you know, with I guess with the, how do I want to say this, if you look at the prayers, the daily prayers, for example, they happen at certain times of a day, dawn, noon, mid-afternoon, right after sunset and in the evening and even those times can change depending on what season you're in and where you live exactly.

So, depending on where you live yeah, you might be fast, breaking your fast and starting your fast at different times, different clock times right?

It's dawn in Minnesota and maybe dawn at the Equator, but the clock times are going to be very different.

So, people who are living close to the Equator will actually not fast as long as we do in the summer right?

But, we might fast a shorter period of time in the winter compared to somebody maybe who's living on the Equator right?

Yeah, so it's very interesting how the practice oftentimes is tied into the reality of where we live.

That's super interesting to me.

So, I just want to ask one more question about that.

What if there's a practicing Muslim in a Nordic country, for example and Ramadan happens to fall near Summer Solstice?

That could be a very arduous fast couldn't it be because sunrise to sunset is potentially 20 hours?

Yeah or even I mean I believe there's in northern Europe there are Muslim communities in northern Europe and I believe they're above the Arctic Circle.

So, where the sun doesn't set it's, you know, if Ramadan happens in the summertime then yeah right?

I mean you can't not eat and drink for a week or two, you know, however long that is.

So, it kind of depends on each local community to the best of my knowledge will make their own decision.

I see.

Sometimes what they will do is they will pray according to a city further south again if we're talking about the northern hemisphere.

So, a city above the Arctic Circle might pray according and fast according to this time of the city below the Arctic Circle where the sun does set right?

So, again because it's not reasonable to never eat and drink, so they'll make some kind of accommodation, you know, sort of to fast on a slightly different time.

Still fasting, still breaking their fast but doing it in a way that's healthy for them.

Sure.

Well speaking of reasonableness, I was going to ask you about that.

Are there any exceptions that are made, for example, for people that are suffering with a chronic illness or for the elderly or any anything else?

So, it is an obligation.

Fasting is an obligation for Muslims but a person should be a healthy adult to be obligated to fast.

So, yes there are exceptions and exemptions for fasting.

So, yeah like you said if somebody has a chronic condition, you know, if they're managing diabetes for example, they may have an exemption from fasting.

Some people, I mean I know Muslims who are diabetic and they're able to manage and still fast but some may not be able to.

You know women who are nursing or pregnant also have an exemption if they choose.

It's very unique for different Muslims because some Muslims can right?

Sure.

But some may not be able to so there's exemptions there for people who, you know, who need it for health reasons.

So it's, sort of based on one's individual constitution and their ability or their stamina in a way?

Yeah, if there's a health condition or some kind of condition in the way like I said even, actually, even traveling there's an exemption for Muslims who are traveling.

Oh, okay.

So if a person is traveling a long distance then during Ramadan then they have an exemption that they can take during that time right?

Especially, if you can imagine like, you know, today if you're driving on the freeway, you know, doing 70 miles an hour, driving a lot, you know, hours and hours through Ramadan of course, you know, it might be safer for that person just to break their fast.

So, they don't get a little drowsy behind the wheel, for example.

Sure and at what age is a Muslim expected to begin observing Ramadan?

The obligation is for adult Muslims.

I see.

So, usually any, if you look at pre-modern faith traditions and Judaism might be a good example too, right Bar Mitzvah, Bat Mitzvah's of 13 years old right?

So, in the Muslim tradition it's usually, you know, puberty is considered the onset of religious responsibility.

So, you know, again that's not like a solid, you know, a fixed number but it's kind of up to the individual but usually around that age of 13 is when Muslims believe that they become responsible or obligated to practice the faith right, with you know prayer and fasting and all and so on and so forth.

In my experience, you know, just you know with other Muslims and you know raising our own children is that what we try to do is we try to teach the good habits when they're younger right?

So, as the kids are growing up, we will try to maybe encourage them to fast a little bit, you know, when they're very young, you know, they might start noticing, you know, because Ramadan is such a special time for us so we want the kid, you know, the children to have a great time as well too, you know, we're going to the the mosque and you know they get to stay up late past their bedtimes during Ramadan right?

So, it's a very special time for the kids too right and so insofar as they experience it.

But, you know, at some point they start to realize, you know, we're teaching them...mom and dad are fasting so then they say like well, I would like to fast too right?

They want to be a part of the festivities and the celebration and the worship and everything that's going on and then so at a young age we might say like now you can skip your snack today, you know, depending on what time of year, you get home from school you skip your snack when you get home from school and then you're fasting with mom and dad and brothers and sisters right?

And as they age, as they're approaching that age of, you know, 13 or so, you know, maybe fasting a little bit more each day, you know, or maybe fasting a whole day or several days or so, you know, so sort of building up to adulthood or building up to that responsibility.

Sure.

So, by the time they hit that age then they're ready to experience and worship with, you know, with the family and with the community.

So, yeah so, 13 is kind of roughly the age but we try to work them up to it and give them practice doing it up to that.

Well, it's my understanding John and please correct me if I'm wrong, that there are basically two denominations for lack of a better term within the Islamic world, Sunni and Shia and I'm curious, do both Sunni and Shia Muslims practice or observe Ramadan in a similar fashion or are there any differences?

Yeah, to the best of my knowledge it's very similar.

So, and again I'm going to generalize a little bit here because when we talk about, you know, like you said almost 2 billion Muslims in the world, I mean there are there are many exceptions in many different sorts of communities but generally speaking the practice to the best of my knowledge is the same right?

So, yeah, Shiite Muslims or at least most of them that I'm aware of, are familiar with, they do practice Ramadan as well.

Dawn until sunset fasting and so on and so forth.

I'm going to segue a little bit and one of the, we have two Shiite mosques in the Minneapolis-St. Paul area and in fact one of them is inviting guests in as a part of a series called Taking Heart Every Year.

Taking Heart Every Year.

Okay.

So I'll explain.

So, Taking Heart is a series of special community events that happen at mosques during the month of Ramadan every year, almost every year because the last two years we've taken time off but the Minnesota Council of Churches helps mosques across the state organize during the month of Ramadan like special open houses.

So, if you go to any mosque, most mosques in the state and in the world will have breaking fast dinners in the evening.

So, you know, Muslims will go to their local mosque, you know, at sunset, break fast with their fellow Muslims, pray at the mosque and then sit down to dinner at that mosque.

Oh really at the mosque?

Yeah, absolutely very common.

So, most mosques are doing that oftentimes every night during Ramadan for them for, you know, with the intention of being primarily for the Muslim community.

But many, many mosques, I think 19 this year and, you know, in collaboration with the Minnesota Council of Churches are hosting special like open house breaking fast dinners right?

Where it's, yeah, of course, you know, come in as a Muslim, come and break fast this evening but also intentionally inviting in members of the community, neighbors, you know, local leadership, mayors and so on and so forth.

Come into the mosque.

So, you can kind of learn a little bit about the, you know, what a mosque is, what it looks like, who the people are, get to know your Muslim neighbors but also just to take the time to break fast with your neighbors, your Muslims who are fasting and celebrating this the sacred month of Ramadan.

This year as I said, I think we have 19 this year who are participating in the Taking Heart dinners and in fact one of those 19 is one of the Shiite mosques in the Minneapolis area.

So, yeah, so they're also participating in the same program and you know welcoming people into their mosque as well just to share a little bit about them and their community and kind of what the month means to them.

I'm curious about sort of the religious foundation of Ramadan.

Is one of its objectives, if you will, to instill a sense of compassion for those that are food insecure?

That's, you'll hear that a lot from different Muslims.

That's a meaningful connection that many Muslims have during the month of Ramadan right?

Having a sense of, you know, empathy for people right?

They'll say maybe for people who don't have enough to eat every day right but if we look again, if we look sort of at the faith and what what the faith teaches, is that again it's what Muslims believe is, God says in the Quran, fast so that you might become more pious or more righteous people.

So, sort of, you know, sort of objectively if we look at the faith that's the real reason that Muslims believe they should fast is because of the connection to God and developing, you know, that better connection with God right and working on their behavior and we can talk more about that in a moment.

But, so yeah, I would say many people, Muslims do really connect with that sense of compassion, you know, feeling that compassion but I tend to kind of lean more on the strict sense and that we do this or Muslims believe they do this because it's about that act of worship and it's about that connection with God that as Muslims right, that's kind of the, you know, 12 months out of the year that's really our intention is to work on that connection with God right and to fulfill what God wants us to do right?

Because as, you know, Muslims believe in a loving merciful God who wants good things for us and since God created us then Muslims trust that what God wants us to do is the best thing for us but the reality is working on our relationship with God also does mean that charity and, you know, these things and service and good deeds and so on and so forth right?

So, as Muslims are working on their relationship with God, it also does right because Muslims believe what God wants us to do is to serve other people and so that also, but so there is that connection with other people and the compassion and service and so on and so forth, so that is real.

So, yeah, I totally respect that as well.

So, you describe Ramadan as a very joyous time of year, very even celebratory, this might be my inference but I hear you say it's a very celebratory time as well.

What is the, can you describe the process of breaking the fast on a daily basis?

Is this also a time to be with family and friends?

Oh, my goodness, yeah, there's like as when we began this, like I said, there's so many different ways we can approach this in terms of, you know, just how individual Muslims approach this and kind of what the rewards are for, you know, because every Muslim approaches Ramadan and fasting with their own challenges, you know, what they're working on in their life and so on and so forth, so sometimes the rewards can be very different too.

It, I would say, let me start it is an act of worship right?

So, again it's Muslims working on their relationship with God, trying to be more, you know, righteous and sort of, you know, do better, what God wants them to do right?

So, there is this very serious aspect to it.

Where it is worship.

It is very intentional right but to me, you know, again I experience it very much there is, you know, with worship and you know with the love of God, there also is, you know, a sense of joy and celebration to me because it is a time of community right?

We can, you know, an individual Muslim can do it on their own, you know, sometimes that happens if people are, you know, living in a remote place where they don't have a Muslim community but really for for Muslims, the ideal is to really to do it as a community right?

So, what you'll see is again many Muslims, you know, what we do is, you know, wake up at home as a family, usually have an early morning breakfast right before dawn.

That early morning breakfast can be very important you know and then once that's done, we set aside our food and our drink, wash the dishes maybe go do our morning prayer and you know at that, it's Ramadan is life.

So, it's not an exemption from our normal responsibilities right?

It's, I mean we work and you know whatever we're doing, we fulfill our normal responsibilities.

I wanted to ask you a little bit about that, excuse me for interrupting, but I wanted to ask you a little bit about the practicalities of observing Ramadan and yet still being teachers and firefighters and engineers and CEO's.

Are there any accommodations that are made or any accommodations that are appropriate?

Sometimes.

There can be.

A friend of mine, she has a daughter who's in, you know, about the same age as my oldest daughter about seventh grade right now and she's in basketball right now right?

So, she's actually, it's traveling basketball and they have a tournament I think she was telling me they have a tournament next weekend right?

So, she's traveling I believe to Wisconsin to play basketball and engage in this tournament but for her again as a Muslim because Ramadan is such an important time of the year, she's not going to set aside fasting to, you know, she's not gonna sacrifice this sacred time or sacrifice the practice for like, you know, for basketball or these other concerns.

I mean basketball, you know, this is an important hobby for her, it gives her a great deal of joy in her life but Ramadan for Muslims, I would say is more important.

So, even if Muslims are doing, I mean farmers like I said, when Ramadan is in summer, I mean farming is hard.

There's many active people working outdoors.

I mean Muslims are still going to fast if they can right?

This is possible.

They still will fast.

So, some of the accommodations typically we ask for are maybe some flex time if possible, you know, if Muslims can adjust their schedule maybe working earlier in the morning so they can maybe have a nap in the afternoon just giving them some flex time to kind of work around their schedule they can still do their eight nine hours but just kind of, you know, adjusting the time a little bit is very helpful.

If somebody's working a shift schedule, making sure that they're able to break their fast at sunset, you know.

Again, we have many Muslims in greater Minnesota right, oftentimes working at like meat plants, you know, Jenny O, you know, those kinds of plants right?

So, that's those lines, you know, they run oftentimes 24-7.

But the accommodations that's been made at many of them is they will actually shut down the line if they have a lot of Muslim employees.

They'll actually stop the line for a few minutes so that those Muslim employees can go break their fast and you know eat a little bit of dinner, do their prayers and then they'll come back and you know start up that line again and keep working right?

So, some accommodations like that are very reasonable and helpful to Muslims but for the most part, it's doing our normal routine you know.

Unfortunately, we probably only have time for one more question but I'm really eager to learn a little bit about the festival that marks the end of Ramadan.

I was wondering if you could tell us about that.

They're the two most important holidays on the Muslim calendar.

We call them Eid so E-I-D is an Arabic word.

In Arabic?

Yeah, Eid.

So, in Arabic it means holiday but in, you know, English we kind of kept that word to refer to the specifically the two major muslim holidays every year.

So, the second most important one happens after Ramadan is over every year.

So, I believe the predicted date for that this year, oh my goodness, I believe it's May 2nd.

Okay.

If memory serves, my memory gets a little fuzzy this time of year but I believe that's May 2nd.

It's a great holiday.

So, Muslims, you know, after that last day of fasting, early the next morning Muslims wake up and go to a special morning prayer as a community right?

Again, it's a community prayer, worship service that Muslims do together and oftentimes it'll be like in my experience, it's oftentimes the biggest prayer of the year or one of the two biggest prayers of the year.

In terms of turnout?

In terms of turnout.

Okay.

And oftentimes Muslims won't do it at the mosque.

They'll actually do it at maybe a community center or a high school gymnasium because you know it's kind of one of those things everybody comes together.

It's so important to Muslims and celebrate that early morning prayer together and then spend one, two or maybe even three days just celebrating the holiday.

Traditionally, it's a three-day holiday and many Muslims here will practice it as a three-day holiday.

You know, some Muslims might just take the one day off of work or school but if we can we'll, you know, we'll spend that three days visiting with other Muslims, you know, having lots of open houses, going to different like festive, you know, like little carnivals, making it fun for the kids.

Sure.

But really, just it's a holiday.

It's just a ton of fun just like other faith communities celebrate their holidays as well but yeah and so it's called Eid and so one thing that's I guess very welcome to hear from our friends who aren't Muslim is the expression Blessed Eid.

That's the expression that Muslims use with each other.

When Eid arrives we say Blessed Eid or in Arabic we say Eid Mubarak and so it's a welcome expression to hear from our neighbors who aren't Muslim and I'd invite people, you know, you and you know others to use that expression if they have Muslim friends to say "Hey Eid Mubarak" right, You know?

I because it's great, you know, when people know kind of what we're going through.

It's just such a joy to hear that.

Absolutely.

And it's always such a pleasure to hear Eid Mubarak from our neighbors and stuff.

So, Eid Mubarak is something that people say at the end of Ramadan, not during Ramadan.

Yeah, not during, yeah after right.

So, like I said I believe the predicted date is May 2nd this year.

So, yeah after Ramadan is over, the first day of the next month on the Islamic calendar we say Eid Mubarak.

John, it was such a pleasure to meet you and I want to thank you so much for helping us better understand Ramadan.

Thank you so much.

This has been a great pleasure.

Thank you.

And thank all of you for joining me once again.

You can continue the conversation on Twitter - tweet me @currentspbs.

I'm Jason Edens your host of Lakeland Currents.

Be kind and be well.

We'll see you next week.