>> Major funding for "Chat Box" with David Cruz is provided by the members of the New Jersey Education Association, making public schools great for every child.

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David: Welcome to "Chat Box."

I'm David Cruz.

We know now Republican Jack Ciattarelli and Democrat Mikie Sherrill were the easier winners , but before we talk about that race, we want to talk to a couple of candidates who did not win this week but whose presence on the ballot elevated its quality.

We begin with Newark Mayor Ras Baraka, whose second-place finish came as a surprise to some but for others reflected the disaffection of some with the party.

He finished second behind Mikie Sherrill, becoming the person everyone was talking about this week.

Ras Baraka joins us now.

Welcome back to the show.

>> thank you for having me.

David: More than 160,000 votes.

You must know that nobody in the punditry had you finishing where you finish.

What happened?

Mayor Baraka: I imagine they thought that because we did not have the same amount of money everybody else had.

Obviously, we raised less money than anybody.

We were not endorsed by any of the parties or groups, but, you know, God is good.

We did what we did.

I think what that represents is not really about me.

It is about the party itself, how disjointed it is and there are a lot of progressives in the party that feel like they are left out, that their voices are not being heard, that their issues are not on the ballot, and I think the Democratic Party has to do a lot of work to bring this organization together, to bring the Democratic Party together to bring folks back in.

David: You are tearing up all my questions for me.

Appreciate that.

What about that progressive coalition?

Even when they helped to produce a victory in a statewide race, they often find themselves having to support Democrats who do not always deliver for them.

Mayor Baraka: Right.

I think we have to stay together .

What happens is we get picked apart, and I think it's going to be a little different this time.

What we have done is make people believe or understand how the vitality of the progressive wing of the party, that it is alive, its well, it is moving.

The fact that we won Essex County and Union County.

These are very serious counties, very populous counties, progressive voters of different nationalities, different backgrounds, and the party believe in the progressive agenda.

They just have to accept that and bring those folks into the mainstream wing of the party.

David: I have heard that before in other circumstances.

Certainly not this particular circumstance, but how does that happen?

It has always been said that power is not handed back.

It has to be taken.

Is the progressive wing of the party strong enough to force that kind of change?

Mayor Baraka: I think yeah.

I think what is happening nationally is part of that.

Ultimately, this primary was good.

It is good for the Democratic Party.

It is good to have different competition.

It is good for us to debate issues and push people to be more progressive and have people say what it is they believe and feel.

I think this helps the party.

If that helps create the party's identity, its direction, the fact that we had a very robust primary was important.

I think that is what we should be advocating for around the country in fact, so I think this is helpful.

A lot of progressives in the party have to be allowed to the table.

That is it, and people have to open the door or they will kick the door down and we don't need that.

And we don't have to have it.

David: You mentioned the parties and the bosses.

What do the results of this election say about them?

Mayor Baraka: I think because of the line, its deterioration, there still is a lot more work to do where that goes.

It it easier for other folks to take a shot across the bow, and that is what we did.

It means they do not have as much control or authority or power that they think they have, that they cannot move elections the way they think they can, and that people are becoming more and more engaged in issues and know what is going on.

They are paying attention to what is happening.

People have to find people's names on the ballot in order to vote for them, so they are becoming more educated about what is happening and more clear, and that is important.

These guys, their power is diminishing, which is good for democracy and for our party.

David: One of your fellow candidates, Steve Fulop, ran with about 40 candidates for assembly on his ticket.

Do you think we will see more of that as we go forward, where candidates feel freer to build that kind of coalition for themselves statewide in the race for governor?

Mayor Baraka: Sure.

People are going to feel like they have the authority and power to run, which is not bad.

I think that is what will happen and is probably healthy.

It is probably what should happen.

David: You had this big press conference late in the race pointing out some of Mikie Sherrill's shortcomings, and you used some pointed language.

Has your opinion changed since then?

Mayor Baraka: No.

Hopefully, she will address those things.

I would like her to address them.

It is not just her but the party itself that needs to address these issues.

Democrats have been in control, and we have had issues with equity in this state.

Equity in health, education, in wealth in this state, so it needs to be addressed and needs to be addressed properly.

That is part of the progressive wing of this party.

Racial equity, economic equity, they want these to be addressed.

I have to do it and we have to sit down and wrestle with each other until we get to a place we feel comfortable.

David: Mikie Sherrill says she is the agent of change and that Jack Ciattarelli, the Republican candidate, represents the status quo.

Is that how you see things right now?

Mayor Baraka: honestly, I think Ciattarelli represents Donald Trump, and that is a problem.

We don't need him anywhere near New Jersey.

His ideas are failing.

They have failed.

We knew they were going to, if its economic ideas or social ideas or any of these things.

Destruction of Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, the attack on DEI and immigrants.

It has been chaos since he has become president, and to bring this to New Jersey is problematic.

Ciattarelli has his own problems.

When he was a legislator come the things he voted against.

He is trying to put himself off as a working-class ally, but he has not been a friend to the working class ever, and I think the congresswoman is going to point those errors out, that he has not been a friend to the work and community, to working families, and certainly not to progressives in this state.

David: I know how much you love talking about your personal life, so let me ask this.

What is different about you having gone through this race, coming from where you have come from?

It is a different Ras Baraka emerging from this experience?

Mayor Baraka: Ideologically, I'm probably still the same in a lot of ways, but ultimately, I understand and have become more accustomed to building the kind of odd coalitions we need across the state.

Listen, there were people fired up in Tewkesbury, New Jersey.

My outlook on the possibilities that New Jersey has have broadly widened.

I think all these things that people have been saying, that the state is not ready for regressive politics, not ready for African-American leadership, these people are dead wrong and this state is on fire.

They are ready for good leadership.

I think they are fearful of losing to Jack Ciattarelli and Donald Trump, and that is what this election more out.

Ultimately, we have to bring the party together.

We need to do that more than anything.

David: Has it changed the way that you approach public life at all?

Mayor Baraka: Well, I mean, I have been attacking my introversion, trying to be less introverted and more outward in terms of what I feel, what I think, my opinions.

David: Although the shaking the hands and all of that.

Mayor Baraka: Yeah, pretty much.

Getting away from the activist self-defense mode I have always been in all my life and just really being more and more open to people to talking, to campaigning, but not just campaigning for office but campaigning for a new direction because we need that more than anything.

David: What is next for you?

Are you going to stick around Newark, or is another run for governor or some other office in your future?

Mayor Baraka: We will see.

I will always be in Newark.

I'm going to stay here forever.

At the end of the day, we are trying to figure it out, talking about what we want to do going forward, but we will always keep our eye on what's happening in the state as well.

We are not throwing away another opportunity to run for governor.

We may do that.

If we must, we must.

These people should do what they need to do to keep me at bay.

At the end of the day, we need to make sure we are pulling the party together and fighting for working families across the state.

David: We have less than a month ago before this state budget is due.

This is a really big thing for the state.

These elections are over now, but this state budget is potentially in crisis pending on what happens on the federal level, right?

Mayor Baraka: Absolutely.

It was in crisis before that, and now it is maybe in a deeper crisis because of what was happening federally, but I think that Donald Trump and his nonsense gives New Jersey an opportunity to say we can no longer subsidize billionaires and millionaires.

We need to have every ounce of money we can get in our budget.

We need it.

We need to repeal those tax cuts.

We need to put money in our budget.

We need a surplus, a rainy day fund because it is raining right now and it seems like it will be every day, so we need money in case those cuts are deep, to take care of ourselves in New Jersey.

The good thing is we give the federal government more money than they give us, so we have a little leverage.

David: We are running out of time here.

Will you or have you thought of who might be a good kind of lieutenant for Mikie Sherrill?

Mayor Baraka: I think she needs to consider very deeply the lieutenant governor position.

This would be an opportunity to bring the wings of the party together.

That's what it should be, honestly.

I would say it should be an African-American or Latino, black and brown person or obviously salvation, but I think somebody needs to be a lieutenant governor that can help her where she is weak.

More on, helping her secure those numbers.

There were a group between myself and Mayor Fulop, that's at lot of people.

You have to bring this people into the fold.

David: A progressive counterpoint.

Mayor Baraka: That's right.

David: Congratulations on this race and thanks for coming on with us.

Mayor Baraka: You got it.

David: Nobody expected Senator John Bramnick to win this week but he kept his message throughout.

He joins us.

Senator Bramnick, welcome.

Regarding this week, as expected, I think, third place.

What would you have done differently?

Senator Bramnick: Could not do much differently.

We had a few factors.

Jack had been running a few years, build a good, statewide group of people, one.

Two, I was probably least trump-y in that group.

You put together the organization Jack had for eight or nine years, put together the audience that Spadea had for those years.

My audience was a safe district and a traditional Republican.

I've got to tell you, as a traditional Republican, that does not sell all that well today.

David: As I said in the intro, you stuck to your guns, but I guess it was hard to be heard over the din of Ciattarelli and Spadea and all their media buys and stuff, but would voters in your party be ready to listen to your message, even if you had, say, $40 million from a union PAC?

Senator Bramnick: I think a percentage of voters would.

Many of my advisers told me I was not angry enough.

Somehow today, you have to hate the Democrats.

You have to be mad at everybody.

It's not my personality, number one.

It is not how I have basically been a Republican 25 years.

I come out of the model, Tom Kane Senior, the Bush family, Reagan, I cannot change that.

Rodney Freeling, Huizinga, Leonard Lance.

I don't know if that is ever going to come back again, but that is why I a Republican, because of those people, and I just cannot change.

David: You touch on it.

This could turn out to be this election, could turn out to be the kind of election where the definition of what it means to be a Republican in New Jersey could change, no?

Senator Bramnick: One thing about politics -- it constantly changes.

I never say that politics has changed forever.

Who would think that the Republicans became the party of the working people?

Who would have ever thought -- they never thought Donald Trump could win a second time, so I can tell you long term, I deeply believe that the traditional values of the Republican Party will come back.

When and how, I don't know.

David: Did you moderates failed to expand the party or alter its message?

Senator Bramnick: I think what happened was working people did not think that the Democrats are doing the job for them.

I believe this is economics.

People are angry.

People making salaries of 150 thousand dollars, they are struggling.

The bottom line is Democrats have not delivered nationally.

Donald Trump comes along.

A new message from the Republicans, and it appears that we, the Republicans, are now gaining the working-class people of America, so that, I think, was the underlying message, and the anger comes from people who simply cannot pay their bills.

If we as Republicans can continue to help those people, I think it will look like the Republican Party is going to be in the majority.

David: Where do you see that happening?

Trump's economic plan does not appear to be focused on helping working-class people at all.

Senator Bramnick: At this point, working-class people believe that the Republican Party hears them.

If the trump doctrine is -- if the trump doctrine, his economic plans, work, I cannot tell you that, but right now, there's an antidemocratic message that has been pretty clear, and they seem to have lost the working-class people now.

You are asking me policy.

I'm talking politics, and I always say, there's always two different discussions.

What's the policy, what's the politics.

Right now, the politics seems to be pro-Republican, as you can see at the national level.

David: Do you think the trump affiliation will be a help or hindrance for Jack Ciattarelli in the fall?

Senator Bramnick: In New Jersey, it is a different story.

In New Jersey, Kamala Harris won by a couple of thousand votes and I did not think Kamala Harris was a great candidate.

It will be based on how popular Donald Trump is in September and October, and if he is extremely popular, that will help Jack Ciattarelli.

If he is unpopular, that will hurt Jack, period.

We don't know that.

The half-life of politics is about 30 days.

David: What about nationally now?

Is there a figure in your party that can challenge Donald Trump?

Conversely, is there someone on the Democratic side who can build a bridge?

It does not feel like you can have a Ronald Reagan/Tip O'Neill relationship in this era, can you?

Senator Bramnick: You are not allowed to have that.

They attacked me because Governor Murphy was in my backyard having hotdogs, right?

That was the first debate.

I'm going, you mean I'm not supposed to talk to the governor of the state of New Jersey?

Absolutely amazing.

David: What about nationally?

Is there someone who can challenge this president from the Republican Party?

>> Not right now.

I don't think he's going to be challenged right now, that's for sure.

David: Is it too soon to ask about state issues with you again?

Senator Bramnick: No, I love state issues.

I am still in the Senate, everybody.

David: Let's talk about this budget which is the big pending item for the legislature.

Is it fair to say you may make it through this budget, but the next budget is going to be a big problem for the next governor, no?

Senator Bramnick: Of course, and everything will depend on how the income to the state -- does it increase?

Does it stay the same?

But if it was to go down, they would be very serious problems in the state of New Jersey, so, yes, it is an incredible challenge.

As you have seen, Governor Murphy has had to make some cuts, and that is not something Governor Murphy likes to do, so it's going to be an extremely difficult budget, known -- not only this year but in the future .

David: And you guys being in the minority can only watch.

You have not been brought in on budget questions, have you?

Senator Bramnick: You get brought in if you agree to vote for the budget and then they give you stuff.

You want some stuff and you want to vote for the budget, you will be brought in.

David: "And then they give you stuff."

Senator Bramnick: Welcome to New Jersey.

David: The last time Republicans flipped any assembly seats and they assembly is up in the fall, was when Jack Ciattarelli did it a couple of cycles ago.

Is he the guy that is going to help flip the house this fall?

Senator Bramnick: Flipping the lower house will be quite a mountain to climb because of how these districts have been created, gerrymandered.

It is very, very difficult, close to impossible to flip and make it a majority of Republicans in the assembly.

The districts are just to to find to help Democrats right now.

David: What does assembly man Ciattarelli have to do in the fall to reach out to independent voters or even Democrats?

Senator Bramnick: I think his message will be clear -- you need balance.

You don't want one-party politics in Trenton.

One-party politics has not really created an affordable economy.

He has to say, look, you may not love me, but on the other hand, do you really want one-party down there that has not worked real well?

It really should be less about Jack and more about balance in Trenton and how important it is.

And then you get policies in the middle.

I would be less about myself and more about the big picture.

David: That is your pitch.

You have been making it since you announced, but Jack Ciattarelli's pitch is let's get the immigrants out of here.

Let's lower tax on business, etc.

Senator Bramnick: Getting the immigrants out I'm not sure cells in a general election.

Giving some breaks does make sense as long as you are also helping the middle class, but I don't think the anti-immigration message is going to be sold much in the general election.

I just don't think it cells much in New Jersey.

David: You are a youthful man with some gravitas and comedic chops with a reputation for bipartisanship.

Is there a role for someone like you to play in today's Republican Party in New Jersey or in today's state Senate?

Senator Bramnick: I hope so.

I'm sticking around.

There is always hope, and hopefully bring -- hopefully being nice to people, civility, statesmanship, hopefully there is a place.

If there is, we are in big trouble.

David: What do you think Jack Ciattarelli should be looking for, either geographically or someone's background, when it comes to lieutenant governor?

Do you have anybody in mind?

Senator Bramnick: I don't.

That is really outside of my pay grade.

You would have to ask the political pundits that one.

I'm just a state senator, not really an expert on statewide politics when it comes to lieutenant governor's.

I just don't have enough knowledge.

David: What are you going to do?

You have -- what?

Two years left on your turn?

Senator Bramnick: I'm going to try to get on "Chat Box" as much as possible and then try to get on the news at 6:00 p.m. No, what I'm going to try to do is what I have always done, try to be honest, represent my constituents, and do a good job and not be angry.

David: What kind of role do you think you will play with the Ciattarelli campaign?

Have you been asked to be an advisor?

Will you go out there and stomp with him?

Senator Bramnick: If I'm asked, we will sit down and talk about it.

Depends what he asked me to do, but I'm a Republican.

I support Republicans.

Simple as that.

David: But not as lieutenant governor?

Senator Bramnick: No, I'm not a lieutenant governor type of guy.

David: Thanks for coming.

Good to see you.

That is "Chat Box" this week.

We are on blue sky now.

You can keep up with what the rest of the team is up to when you subscribe to the NJ Spotlight News YouTube channel.

For the entire team at Gateway Center in downtown Newark, we thank you for watching.

We will see you next week.

>> major funding for "Chat Box" with David Cruz is provided by the members of the New Jersey Education Association, making public schools great for every child.

Promotional support for "Chat Box" with David Cruz is provided by insider NJ, a political intelligence network dedicated to New Jersey political news.

Insider NJ is dedicated to giving serious political players and interactive forum for ideas, discussion, and insight.

Online at insiderNJ.com.