(upbeat music) - These are the stories that move us, the stories that guide us, and the stories that reflect our community.

Filmed in our neighborhoods and at local haunts by those who call this city home.

Atlanta filmmakers are documenting stories that show the life of our city in a way we could only imagine.

These are the stories that we tell.

This is "Atlanta on Film."

(upbeat music) Hello, I'm your host, Jono Mitchell, and this is "Atlanta on Film."

WABE's weekly film series featuring a collection of stories that reflect our diverse community.

This episode is made possible by our friends at Out on Film, Atlanta's LGBTQ film festival.

In this episode, we learn that being our true selves sometimes comes at a price in the landmark documentary "Surviving The Silence" by Cindy Abel.

But first, we see what happens when a teenager makes his move on a school crush in this semi-autobiographical story by Adante Watts.

This is "Read Between the Lines."

(film reel clicking) (countdown beeping) (upbeat electro pop music) (upbeat electro pop music) (upbeat electro pop music) (upbeat electro pop music) ♪ I'm right here ♪ ♪ At your door ♪ ♪ I'm brand new ♪ ♪ I'm looking out for you ♪ ♪ Here we are ♪ ♪ I want it all ♪ ♪ And even more ♪ ♪ I wanna get to you ♪ ♪ I'm right here at your door ♪ (upbeat electro pop music) ♪ I'm right here at your door ♪ ♪ I want you too ♪ ♪ If I can get a little high I won't stop ♪ ♪ Get a little bit of speed and I go top ♪ ♪ I've gotta live like I'm drinking the last drop ♪ ♪ I don't wanna miss the chance to get drunk ♪ ♪ If I can get a little high I won't stop ♪ ♪ Get a little bit of speed ♪ (Amari clears throat) ♪ I've gotta make like I'm drinking the last drop ♪ ♪ I don't wanna miss the chance ♪ - Don't give me that look.

I came here to do it, so I'm gonna do it.

- You do realize that would involve you actually going up and talking to him, right?

And not just pining for him from afar like you've been doing for the last two weeks.

- I can't just go up and start talking to him.

I don't have the luxury of assuming every hot guy I see is also into guys.

Yeah, how, how would you feel, hmm, if some random guy came up to you and started hitting on you?

- Hmm.

I mean, I feel like I handled it well when you came on to me.

(chuckles) Look at us now, man.

- (groans) You're missing the point.

- No, I'm not.

I just don't think the fact that you don't know whether he's gay or not has nothing to do with that you're not gonna go up there and speak to him.

- It's a pretty significant factor.

- Oh, really?

Okay, how about we look at the facts, all right?

You're interested in a guy that you don't know is gay or not but that also happens to be the exact same reason as to why you're not gonna go talk to the guy.

I don't know.

That just seems pretty convenient to me.

That's all I'm saying.

You've never been able to ask anybody out, like ever, even before you knew you were gay.

That development did not help the situation at all.

- But Jenny- - Jenny McClendon does not count, bro.

- Well there was you- - And neither do I.

'Cause technically you never really asked me out.

- [Carlos] Okay.

- You kind of just told me you had a crush on me and then started to cry for, like, 45 minutes.

- Okay, okay, okay.

- But it's cool.

I got the solution to all this.

All right?

I got you.

- What?

What?

No, Amari.

- I got you.

- Amari, what are you doing?

(Carlos sighs) (gentle music) - I hate him.

(sighs) (gentle music) - He's definitely gay.

Or bi or pansexual.

You got a shot, okay?

You definitely have a shot.

(fist smacks) Ow.

Yo, a simple thank you would've sufficed, bro.

- How the did you find that out?

- Well, I was like, "Hey, what's up man?

So I wanna get a book for my gay best friend.

Do you got any suggestions?"

And that's when he was like, "Yeah, man.

Got just the thing for you."

- [Carlos] That is not at all what he sounds like.

- Shut up.

This is my story, okay?

- [Carlos] Okay.

- So he was like, "Yeah, man.

Got just the thing for you."

Then he proceed to show me a bunch of LGBTQ themed books that he liked.

(chuckles) - He works at Barnes & Noble.

It wouldn't be a stretch to believe he's straight and also familiar with a few LGBTQ book authors.

Plus liking gay-themed pop culture does not a gay person make.

You should know.

You are the biggest Ariana fan I know.

No, no, no, no, no.

And don't think I don't know that it's the real reason you let me call you Ari.

- You're right.

She's extremely hot and she's an amazing vocalist.

You're right I want you to call me by her name.

But you didn't let me finish, okay?

- Okay.

- After he gave me the paper, he was like "My ex was a really big reader and introduced me to a lot of those authors."

That's when I was like, "Oh, she must've been very happy you worked at a Barnes & Noble."

To which he responded, get this, "No, my ex was a guy... and the best part about our breakup was canceling his rewards account."

So, thanks to my sleuthing, you don't have any more excuses to go talk to him.

- Hey, hey, don't ever use the word sleuthing again.

- Guess what?

We are not leaving until you go over there and talk to him, okay?

- No, no, wait, no.

No, no, no, no, no, no.

No, dude.

Dude, you're my ride.

- Oh, yeah.

(Amari speaking foreign language) - Dude, are you kidding me right now?

- [Amari] Do your thing.

Do your thing.

(Amari laughs) (bright electro pop music) (Carlos breathing heavily) - Okay.

Okay, okay, okay.

You can do this.

You can do this.

Okay.

Okay, you got this.

Okay.

Okay, okay.

(bright electro pop music) Nope!

Dang it!

(PA system chiming) - [Announcer] Attention Barnes & Noble Shoppers, the time is now 8:30 and our store will be closing in 30 minutes.

Please make your final selections and bring your items to the register located at the back of the store.

Thank you for shopping with us and have a wonderful evening.

- No, I'm sorry.

Great.

(ambient synth music) (ambient synth music) (phone chimes) (ambient synth music) (ambient synth music) - [Milo] You need help finding anything?

- Hi.

Thanks.

- Hey, you're welcome.

You okay?

- Yes, you're fine.

I mean, I'm, I'm fine.

(chuckles) I'm great.

Thanks.

- Hey, I know you from somewhere, don't I?

- Yeah.

Oh, we had a few classes together last semester.

- Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Carlos, right?

- You remembered.

- Yeah, I have a thing for nice eyes.

Well, I'm gonna get back to it.

Just let me know if you need help with anything.

It's good to see you again, man.

- You too, (chuckles) man.

I don't know why I said that.

Milo, hold on.

There is something.

- Yeah?

- I was, I was wondering, I mean, I was curious if you might wanna hang out sometime with me?

I mean, not no, not like a, not like a date though.

Or it could be if, if you want to be but only 'cause I want it to be but if you want it to be- - No.

- Uh, what?

- I mean, I'm flattered I guess, but you're just not really my type.

- Oh.

- Where y'all magazines at?

- Oh, well there's those right there.

But we also have some on the other side of the store.

Here, come on, let me show you.

- Yo, what happened?

- I'm not his type.

- You're not his... - No, no, no, no, no.

Ari, it's all right.

I'm actually okay with it.

- You are?

- Yeah, yeah.

I mean, don't get me wrong, that was embarrassing and I would like to crawl in a hole and die now, but I did it.

And four hours ago, I wasn't even sure I'd get that far.

(Chuckles) - Oh yeah.

Progress, man.

That's good.

Hey, and don't even worry about it.

Screw that guy, okay?

You're a total catch.

He's the one missing out on everything.

Hey, but you know what this means now, right?

This new profound courage of yours, we finally get to test it out at the gay bar.

You know I've been wanting to go to one.

We gotta- - Stop, hey, hey, hey.

Baby steps, okay?

- All right, all right, let's go.

Come on, come on, come on.

- [Alex] All right, man, you're good to go.

- Thank you.

- Take care.

- Next in line.

(Carlos clears throat) Oh, this is, this is actually a really good book.

You know, he actually came to do a reading back when this first released, and I got to hang out and talk with him for like an hour after and he was, he was really chill.

- Yeah, yeah.

I remember that.

I was so mad because I was out of town that week.

- Well, you know, the sequel comes out in like a month and he did say he was planning on doing another tour.

So I guess you'll just have to make sure you can come to the next one.

I can introduce you, you know, 'cause him and I are like BFFs now.

(card reader chimes) - Well, I'll definitely be there.

(gentle music) - So, see you later then.

- Yeah.

Later.

- Next in line.

How's it going?

- What'd you get?

- [Carlos] Just a book.

- Speaking of introductions, I'm Alex.

Call me sometime.

Yo, who's Alex?

- Huh.

(upbeat electro pop music) ♪ If I can get a little high I won't stop ♪ ♪ Get a little bit of speed and I go top ♪ ♪ I gotta live like I'm drinking the last drop ♪ ♪ I don't wanna miss the chance ♪ - My name is Dante Watts.

I'm the writer and director of "Read Between the Lines."

"Read Between the Lines" is a story that follows Carlos.

He is a socially anxious college student and he is trying to ask out the bookstore clerk that he has a crush on, but given his predicament with his anxiety, talking to strangers and confessing his feelings for them, it's not necessarily the easiest thing.

So, ultimately, it's kind of a story about overcoming yourself, being your biggest obstacle and taking the leap to do something both scary and exciting.

(gentle music) "Read Between the Lines" was based on an actual experience that I had, similarly, trying to ask out someone that worked at a Barnes & Noble.

Unfortunately for me, I was never able to get to the point of actually speaking to them because my anxiety/fear of rejection is so intense that I just couldn't bring myself to do it.

But it did then inspire me to write a story about it and make myself feel better.

♪ The last drop ♪ ♪ I don't wanna miss the chance ♪ - Don't give me that look.

I came here to do it, so I'm gonna do it.

- You do realize that would involve you actually going up and talking to him, right?

- So I had been doing other short films previously to this one.

I wrote it and I still wasn't really planning on making it but I showed it to some people and they were like, "No I think you should make this.

This would be, you know, it could be something good."

It is still bizarre to kind of like see people relating to something so personal.

And this is the first film that I've made that was based on an actual story from me.

So that, even when I was making it, felt different because it felt so personal.

Like all while we were shooting it, it was very odd, like, setting up these scenes that were so close to the actual events and being reminded of that and like being taken back to that place almost.

But it also helped too, I think, creatively put me in an interesting head space to kind of get some of the performances and shots that I was looking for.

In Barnes & Noble, we shot two days in a row.

They were both overnight.

Initially we had the plan to shoot it in one day but I had already asked for two and they were like, "Yeah, you can have two."

So we were like, well, let's just keep the first day.

We'll do a rehearsal on the first day.

So, for that opening shot specifically, it took us 20 takes and the entire day to shoot it.

And so it was very fortunate that we kept that first day 'cause it would've just destroyed us the second day.

But we had a, the initially the shot was supposed to be we follow the cart around the corner and then we land on the "Read Between the Lines" book which is supposed to be sitting on the end cap but we were shooting with a Sony A7 which is kind of a smaller camera.

And then we were shooting on anamorphic lenses, which are large.

So you have this tiny camera with these giant lenses.

And the AC hated us because nailing that focus was so hard.

So after, I think like the 14th or 15th take, we were like, okay something's gotta change here 'cause this is not, this is not working out.

And then I had the idea to start on the book instead.

And so after pulling out of that and then following him around, I think from there it only took an additional two or three takes before we got it.

(gentle music) In all the films that I make, I try to tell stories that are both relatable but also accessible to people who can't relate to them.

While I set out to tell the story of this experience that I've been through, I wanted it to be accessible to everybody.

So like, it's not necessarily, it's not only gay people or only people of the LGBT community can relate to it.

Even if you're not looking at it from a romance perspective, it's still, like, at its core is about, you know, building up the courage to do something that you're not, that you didn't think that you could do.

And then when you actually do it, having that satisfaction and being like, wow, like I did that.

- You okay?

- Yes, you're fine.

I mean, I'm fine.

(chuckles) I'm, I'm great.

Thanks.

- Hey, I know you from somewhere, don't I?

- Yeah.

Oh, we had a few classes together last semester.

- Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Carlos, right?

- You remembered.

- Yeah, I have a thing for nice eyes.

- LGBT cinema, I would say, is important because just like pretty much anything else that you see people wanna be seen, they want to see characters and see stories that they can relate to on a personal level.

And it's definitely gotten better over time but it's still nowhere near I think, where it needs to be for people to kind of feel that validation.

I know when I was growing up, I would've loved to have a movie like "Read Between the Lines" to kind of see it, you know, queer relationships and that kind of story normalized where, you know, he has a best friend who supports him but is also straight.

And to just have that relationship and that experience to have that relationship and that experience be validated and to see like you're not the only person that has to deal with this and you're not alone.

I think that's the most important part.

(film reel clicking) (countdown beeping) - Directed by Cindy Abel, "Surviving the Silence" delves deeply into the national story of a highly decorated colonel who was forced to expel an army hero for being a lesbian.

What no one knew at the time was that same colonel was grappling with a secret of her own.

Decades later, the truth is exposed.

This is "Surviving the Silence."

(film rolls) (upbeat music) - Gays have always served in military.

And that's frankly the issue with a lot of change that goes on in the military.

It's just catching up with the reality.

It's not deciding if you're gonna change something going forward in terms of who can serve.

It's deciding whether you're gonna change the policies to reflect that people are already serving and let them serve openly and with integrity.

I first got involved in government professionally coming into the Clinton administration.

I wasn't out at the time.

I wasn't planning on serving in the military.

I had to get a security clearance.

Those days being gay was still grounds for denying you the clearance.

So it was a big deal that you had this candidate campaigning to end the ban on the military.

This compromise, don't ask, don't tell, is very quickly created because even though the president had talked about this during the campaign, the political will wasn't there.

That ends up having been a pretty bad compromise 'cause it puts people in the position of having to hide who they are.

And it still allowed the system to go after people, not just if someone revealed who they were, even though the asking was technically prohibited by this.

If they wanted to go after someone, they could find ways to get the information without it looking like it was an investigation.

It took 20 years of deciding whether we should get past the idea of banning gays and lesbians to create this awful compromise.

Almost 20 years of living under don't ask, don't tell, before it's repealed.

So you got four decades there of humanizing this of personalizing this and of culture changing in our country.

- Five years after the repeal of Don't Ask, Don't Tell, Fanning becomes the first openly gay secretary of a major military branch.

(audience applauds) - It's very different now than it used to be.

- I had had this dream about wanting to be a general and there were a few openings now coming up for female generals in the Nurse Corps and I thought, maybe I could do that.

And I applied for a top secret clearance as part of the investigation.

There was some question about sexuality and I made the statement, I am a lesbian.

Six months later I was called into my commander's office in the National Guard and they said, "Because of this statement that you made during your top secret investigation, the army is going to start discharge proceedings against you."

- You want to go out with an honorable discharge.

If you are discharged under some other less than honorable circumstance, it impacts your benefits going forward.

And that can be substantial; medical benefits, retirement pay, educational benefits, it stays on your permanent record and is a blemish on service.

People join the military for a number of reasons but one of the common elements is that commitment to service and to leave with that blemish that said you didn't serve in an honorable way has a particularly profound impact on someone to whom service is important.

- When the board was convened, I was so grateful because Patsy Thompson was the president of the board.

There were so many things I didn't know about her personally but she was somebody that I knew and trusted.

(gentle music) (gentle music) - Please welcome Pat Thompson.

(audience applauds) - Hello everybody.

- [Audience] Hello!

- We are not comedians but we'll do our best to entertain you with our story.

I was a depression baby, born and raised in rural North Carolina, a small town of about 3,000.

I was the youngest of five and my daddy worked in the cotton mill.

We were very poor, but I didn't know that.

We grew our own crops and we had our chickens and our pigs.

All five kids had one bedroom and they took me to church every Sunday and we just didn't know any different.

As I was growing up, the three girls were supposed to do housework; mopping and cleaning and dishes and helping cook.

And so I said to my mother one day, why does Jimmy Jimmy was my older brother, Why does Jimmy not have to do dishes and why does he not have to clean house?

She said, "Well, you know he stacks wood and he mows the grass."

And I said, "Let me do that.

I'll do that and let him do this."

And she said, "Hush Patsy, he's a boy."

I had several jobs but my most long-term job was a place called Sammy's.

I hopped curb, I would go out to the cars and take the tray out.

I worked behind the counter.

I made the food as well and we would serve the colored people.

We called 'em colored then, at the back door, we couldn't wait on them in cars.

And I think about those things now, you know?

And I was doing what I was told to do even though I knew it wasn't right.

One day I did the usual, I turned the outside lights on and opened the doors to get ready for business.

And Sam the owner closed the doors and turned the lights off.

And I said, "Why are you doing that?"

And he said, "It's too early."

And I knew it wasn't too early.

So I thought, I don't know what's going on.

And I was really frightened that something was going to happen that I didn't want to happen.

So I went back and I turned the lights on and unlocked all the doors and he locked the doors and turned the lights off again.

And then he went into the back the storage room and called me back there.

Well, I didn't smoke but I got a pack of cigarettes, opened it took a cigarette out and I lit that cigarette and I went back and I said, "Yes, what did you want?"

And he took a hold of me and started fondling me.

And I said, "No, no, no, I don't want that."

And I'm pushing him away.

And he just would not stop.

And I still had that cigarette in my hand.

So I put that cigarette, the burning part right between his eyes and twisted it and he backed off.

And I said, "Now, what are you gonna tell your wife?"

So all evening the guys would come in and say, "Sam, what happened to you?"

He told everything but the truth.

But he never ever tried to touch me again.

- I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic... - In the World War II, we all were part of it.

The kids were told to go throughout the neighborhood and find as much iron as we could 'cause they needed iron to build ships and that.

And we also bought victory bonds.

And so we all felt like we were a part of the war.

My older brother, Fred, went in the Navy and he went to pilot training school and he loved it.

He told us what a great feeling it was to be able to fly.

At the end of his training, my parents were going to Oklahoma City to his graduation and they were all packing and ready to go when they had a knock on the door and Fred had been killed in a plane crash.

We were not allowed to view the body.

And that made it really difficult to know that he was really there.

So I used to think, well maybe he traded dog tags with somebody else.

And I would look at crowds and think maybe he was there, you know?

And so it was very difficult for me.

After my older brother died, my younger brother Jimmy received his orders to report.

So my mother looked at that and she took that paper and went to the recruiting office and she threw it on the table and said, "You killed one of my sons.

You're not having this one."

So they tore the paperwork up, threw it in the garbage can and she came back home and my brother didn't have to go.

And I thought, "Well, Jimmy can't go into the military but I can, I can join the military."

And so I did, as soon as I could.

(gentle music) I always wanted to know what was on the other side of the mountains.

That kind of led me to nursing school.

I decided to join the Air Force Nurse Corps and was assigned to make their Air Force Base Hospital in 1956.

Shortly after I got there, I had one of the medics that I was working with say, "You know, lieutenant, you are a very nice person but you have an invisible wall around you that we cannot penetrate."

And I thought, "Wow he's very intuitive 'cause I was a homosexual."

(laughs) Well, I played basketball with the enlisted personnel at May 3rd Air Force base where I was stationed and I was so happy to get to play basketball again.

That's how I met my first real partner.

She always went with me when I visited my family and they loved her.

She was my partner for 24 years and she was kind of like family but I don't think they ever suspected that we were more than friends, that we were just housemates.

They just didn't think about it.

When I was assigned to England, I cried all the way on that plane.

I just couldn't stop crying.

Having to leave the person that I love and going to a foreign country and I didn't wanna go.

And I was having to hide from my family, who I was.

So I stopped in Washington DC to try to pull myself together before I went down to North Carolina.

I never wanted to come out to my family because of the religion back there.

They have a church on every corner and people are really really religious and they're very anti-gay.

They feel like it's a sin and that's what they really, really believe.

And so I thought, well I don't wanna put my family through that.

It's going to upset them for sure.

So I just, I never chose to come out to them.

After my relationship, I really went through a very difficult time and I didn't say anything to my family.

The next time I was home my brother said, "Did Laverne do something to you?

Did she hurt you somehow?"

I said, "Why would you ask?"

He said, "I don't know, I just wonder."

So he felt, he could tell, he could feel my hurt and that would've been my best time to come out to him.

But I didn't, I wasn't ready.

I knew that whether I was in the military or wherever I was whatever job I did, I was gonna have to hide who I was because it was not acceptable at the time.

And there were a lot of enlisted women that were thrown out and they watched them.

They were trying to catch them.

I always felt somewhat protected as a nurse and as an officer because I really didn't feel like they were watching me.

But I knew they were watching enlisted women.

I actually dated one of the women for a while and she got kicked out because of suspected homosexuality.

And she called me at work and said "I have to be off the base by the end of the day and I don't have a way to go."

And I said, "Well just wait.

I'll come."

I got off at 3:30 and I backed my car up to her barracks and we loaded her stuff in and I drove her off base.

I thought, well if they say anything to me about doing that I'll say, "Well, I was just helping a friend of mine."

It was scary, those kinds of things.

You were always kind of leery 'cause you never knew.

You never knew if they were watching or listening or you know.

I dated a couple of the navigator students at Mather when I was there so that I could cover who I was.

It takes a lot of energy to do that.

And just not knowing and always having to be on guard.

I wonder how my life would've been if I had not had to guard.

And I did that until Laverne asked me, "Please don't do that anymore."

So I didn't.

I stopped dating.

It was nice not to have to date men.

And I was glad that she had asked me not to.

After we had broken up, it was really hard.

So I was invited to this party and thought, "Well, I really should go."

So I got dressed and I went, but I got lost.

I couldn't find the street.

I took a big breath and I thought, "Wow, at least I tried."

And I headed home and then I saw the street and I thought, "Oh, I guess that means I need to go."

At some point I noticed this woman talking to a woman that I knew and I thought, "Well, I don't know who the dark-haired one is but I know the other one is bad news."

So then I started talking to the dark-haired one.

We discovered that we both were running for exercise.

So I asked her if she would like to come over for breakfast the next day and we could go running.

And she said, "I don't like to run with anybody."

And I said, "Okay, well maybe we can try it and if it doesn't work, we don't have to do it."

So she agreed to come for breakfast.

I had all this nice healthy breakfast prepared for her but she didn't show.

And I thought, "Oh well she's not worth it."

She can tell you about that herself.

(audience applauds) - Well, I am very honored and pleased to be here tonight to share this with my wife, Colonel Thompson.

And thank you for allowing us to tell our story.

My life started 60 years ago as the first child of Holocaust survivors.

(somber music) My parents were immigrants, refugees.

(somber music) My dad was in Buchenwald for about six months.

My mother who was 20 years younger than my dad fled Germany, went to Shanghai and they were put into essentially a ghetto.

They got food from a kitchen somewhere.

And my dad, since he was older, he found work.

That background, I knew about it from an early age and I always knew that they had it hard and they survived in their way.

When they left Shanghai, they ended up going to Germany to a displaced person's camp for about six months.

I think my mom was 17 at the time.

And then they were able to come to United States went to Chicago and at that point my parents already knew each other.

My dad wanted to marry my mother and asked her if she would like to live in Chicago or live in California where he was living.

And she had decided California.

So that's where they settled.

(cheerful music) - As a child growing up, we were very middle class, very supported, very comfortable.

(cheerful music) (cheerful music) We're raised with a Jewish education like Sunday school.

So we went on the weekend.

We'd have a three hours of Sunday school education.

And I kind of really didn't take it in hook line and sinker.

I was always questioning, always looking around.

And being the odd person, we would celebrate the Jewish holidays.

So if they happened to be on a school day like for a Yom Kippur or Rosh Hashanah, we would not go to school and then have to go back and somebody would have to explain what was going on.

And my parents seemed to not want to necessarily hide anything, but they definitely didn't want to broadcast anything.

Probably from seeing Germany growing to antisemitism so rapidly and so harshly in the '30s that they just had to keep a lower profile.

And I got a sense of that.

Just be there, be good, be who you are, but don't broadcast everything.

I knew even before as a teenager, my attractions were more focused towards females.

I certainly knew how the world worked and was expected of me.

It never seemed quite the thing for me, and it wasn't clear why.

I never remember hearing anything negative about gay people, and not hearing about it made me think that it didn't exist.

So what's wrong with me?

Why am I feeling this way?

I felt that my world, especially as a teenager was too protected, too closed down, not enough exposure.

I'd come home from a school I was distraught.

I can't think that it was necessarily because I thought I was gay.

I didn't know what that meant at the time, but I just knew the life I was in was not enough for me.

My grandfather was a veteran of World War I.

He was a typical German soldier, very stoic, very serious and always had the idea that going into the military was a really good idea for even women.

And he also said it to me when I was growing up.

"You might think about joining the army.

You'll learn things, give you discipline."

But I knew it was definitely not for me.

I never wanted to be told what to do even from a young, young age.

And I was lucky to be growing up in the '60s and '70s when the Free Love movement started and wanted to express myself.

I know that was difficult for my parents and my grandfather to see that I probably was going off on some crazy tangent.

- [Announcer] Thousands of demonstrators opposed to the Vietnam War assembled in the nation's capitol for a mass protest.

(tense music) (crowd cheering) (helicopter whirling) (soft rock music) - I considered myself a pacifist.

I watched the Vietnam War footage on TV.

I didn't understand why we had to go there.

And I remember one time there was, I think a bus of people that were gonna go protest, and I thought, "I wish I could do that.

I really wanted to do it."

I didn't, I had a sense that that wasn't a good thing.

From my family's perspective, what came through to me was always, "You have such potential."

And that has pushed and tugged and twisted through me for years because I felt that I had to live up to that potential.

I didn't know what it was.

I didn't know how it should manifest itself.

I thought, "Well, if you have potential, you have to excel and you have to be out there in the world and you have to make an impact."

My feeling was I wanted to be an artist.

I loved finding things, making things, putting things together, but never felt that art was going to be something that I should use as a profession.

I knew my family's history, and I knew that we lived in a wonderful, comfortable society.

Why can't we just get better instead of regressing and getting worse?

That has been a point of grief for me and anger, and it depressed me a lot.

I didn't know how I... Why would I continue to wanna live in this kind of a world?

And I think what I needed to do was find something that was going to work for me.

Since my potential was not being fulfilled so I had to do a lot of exploration.

There was a ship that I could take as a student from New York to Naples.

It was an Italian Liner.

One of the stewards was very interested in me and I was very experimental and open.

Okay, I'll see where this goes.

He didn't speak much English.

I didn't speak much Italian, but didn't really need that.

So it was fun.

This is like the movies.

I'm going to enjoy this.

And just wanted to open myself up to lots of different experiences.

In '83, I decided this was my time to move on, do something different.

I said, "I'm outta here."

I found out when the next Greyhound bus came and took a cross-country trip.

(gentle music) When I came back, I knew that there was time to really come out to myself.

At that time, my youngest sister, Phyllis opened a little shop on her own.

I said, "You know, I'd be willing to work with you and move to the Sacramento area."

And I found then a little apartment.

And first thing I did was open that phone book and look for something.

"How can I learn more about what's going on?"

So I looked up something like sex.

I don't know what it was.

It had to do with that.

And I called a number and I said, "Where can a woman meet other women?"

And he said, "Well, there's this bar and there's this bookstore and there's this magazine or a newspaper."

So I had something to go with and started to explore, and then I was like a kid in a candy store.

Shortly after that, I decided I needed to come out to my mom and my sisters for sure.

I worked with my sister Phyllis, so she was supportive.

I don't think she was terribly surprised.

I told my other sister, Kathy, and she was just wonderful and loving.

But the big one was telling my mother.

I knew that I wouldn't ever be rejected.

I just didn't know how she would handle it.

Being raised in a family that kind of kept a low profile, one thing I do remember my mother saying also when I came out to her was, "Do you have to tell everybody?"

And I knew that was a significant thing in her mind to deal with because when one person comes out, essentially the family comes out on some level, and she did not want to come out as the mother of a lesbian, I'm sure because she was just hoping it would pass over.

So I knew that I had to kinda keep a low profile.

I wasn't sure how to reconcile it in my mind because I knew in those years that still it was baby steps for the gay community to start being out more and coming out more and having more rights.

But I wasn't really sure how that was going to go, and I wasn't sure how I should be to preserve a harmony and to move on and move out and be active.

I found out that there was a gay community here and there was a women's bookstore and they had a bulletin board, and on there was an ad for a lesbian support group.

I thought, "Oh, this will be good for me.

I'll call."

And I did call.

This was the first meeting of that particular organization and I wanted to meet more people.

- And you did?

- And I did.

So I got in there.

And when Pat came over, I kinda thought she was new into the LGBT world.

She just seemed so straight to me.

And maybe there would be an ex-husband and a couple children.

I was just open, and when she said, "You want to go running together?"

I said, "Okay, I don't really like to run with people, but I'll do it."

She seems nice.

I'll find out who this person is.

And when I got here, which I ended up postponing by a couple of hours.

(laughs) - Came here, I saw this big house and said, "Yeah, she's a straight woman who's starting out just like me."

But no, I found out that that 24-year relationship was with a woman.

I don't know if I even heard about being connected to the military.

I'm not really sure when you told me, but it wasn't something that I could understand how the impact would happen.

(somber music) - [Pat] I bought this house in '81.

I was working at McClellan Air Force Base.

And when I walked into the foyer, I just absolutely fell in love with this house.

- [Barb] So when I came to live here with her and be together, I just looked around and I could see all the potential, and that really motivated me to find a way to learn how to do construction.

- I trusted her to do a good job because I had seen her put a window in that she had never done before, because the guy that we had hired to do it flaked out, and the window was open, the birds could fly in.

And so she said, "Okay, I'll do it."

- And we couldn't reach him, so there was no recourse.

It was either just wait and never know when he was gonna show up or do something.

And I was angry.

And I figured, "If this idiot could do it, I could certainly do it."

I had no idea how to do it, but I figured it out.

He had left his tools.

So I get out on the roof and start cutting boards, and I said, "Pat, I cut a board and it fits."

So the guy showed up the next day, I showed him the window, and he said, "Oh, you did a really good job.

How long have you been doing this work?"

I said, "Well, since yesterday when you didn't show up."

So I learned that I liked that a lot.

The physical as well as the mental part of working on houses, and this was a great, perfect palette.

I was passionate about it and I wanted to make it a place that we could feel at home and safe and comfortable.

During that time period, we were able to replace our fences in the backyard.

Went up as high as we could.

That gave us more privacy.

And then at one point, we put a fence around the front yard.

It's a wrought iron fence, but it still encloses us.

For appearance's sake, I was able to build a secret passageway that went from our bedroom and the bedroom that was supposed to be my bedroom.

We thought that we would be able to use that if we had house guests that didn't feel comfortable knowing who we really were.

It was not a good feeling living in a place that we considered our home that we had to hide from people that came in here.

But we had to do that quite often.

I did a lot of the construction myself, but I had to get subcontractors for certain things that I couldn't do.

These guys would come in and they would say, "Oh, where's your husband?"

And I would just say, "You know, it's just hard to find a good man these days."

"Well, what do you do with this big house?"

"Well, we're gonna do a bed and breakfast."

That pacified them.

"That's a great idea.

That's a perfect house for a bed and breakfast."

Those were our ways of hiding, covering, keeping safe.

- [Pat] We both were resigned to the fact that we couldn't be out and that we had to really protect ourselves.

- I was angry.

I had a lot of anger about that, and I still knew that it had to be the way it was for that time.

And it wasn't only our society, but it was the fact Pat was in the military.

So I knew that had to be a factor of keeping a low profile.

- When we were working in the front yard, this guy came over and he said, "I wanna ask you something.

What's the relationship between you two women?"

I said, "We're sisters."

He threw his hands in the air and he said, "That's what I told him.

That's what I said."

And he went home.

He was so happy.

- And that was okay.

Sisters could live together.

- Yeah, it was okay to be sisters, but I'm sure they had talked about the fact that maybe we weren't sisters.

He just had to clear that up.

I lied to him, but I felt that I had to.

There was another time that we felt threatened because we had two women that were renting the basement apartment.

One day, we found them sitting out on the front steps smooching.

I thought, "Oh, gracious, we have to stop that.

What will the neighbors think?"

- Not so much to me what they would think, is what they might do.

- Yes, of course.

- Just personal safety.

- Yes.

- It was a constant threat that was a low level threat, but it was always there.

The county we live in is one of the most conservative counties in the state.

- [Pat] Predominantly anti-gay.

- It was just always something you had to be aware of, and that does create stress in a life.

(gentle music) - [Pat] Barb would go with me to North Carolina when I would go.

She got to meet my family.

- Pat had told me a little bit about her family history, getting me adjusted to a different culture.

Coming from a Jewish middle class background and going to a southern, traditionally Christian religious family.

How more opposite could you be?

I understood that I had to keep it low key.

- And so you did.

(chuckles) Yeah, she was wonderful because she knew that I wasn't out to my family at that time.

I loved my family and I didn't want to lose them.

And I was 3,000 miles away, so it was easy for me not to come out until now.

I very well remember meeting her family I was nervous about.

Her mother being very close to my age, I was not sure how that was gonna go or if I was gonna be accepted by that family, but they were just wonderful.

They just couldn't have been nicer to me.

They made me feel better and put me at ease.

- I don't remember feeling real nervous or anything.

I just wanted them to know Pat and wanted her to know them and... - So we got through that.

(gentle music) (case snaps open) (trumpets buzzing) - I was very concerned about the age difference when we first met.

- [Barb] But it took you a while to get over the age difference.

- [Pat] Yes.

- [Barb] And to trust that it wasn't gonna be a big barrier.

- [Pat] Yes, it didn't.

And Barb convinced me that it didn't matter.

It didn't really make a difference Oh, dear.

- [Friend] Oh, Barb's still sleeping, be careful.

- Uh-oh, be careful.

(laughs) - My parents had a 20-year age difference, which is very similar to ours and that worked out just wonderfully.

(gentle music) - [Pat] I've been very fortunate to have good health and to be able to remain active.

- And that was something I think I thought about years ago.

When I'm 60, she's gonna be 80, and at that time, 80 was older to me.

- It's still old.

It's old, but it's not old like it used to be.

It used to be 80 was these people creeping around in wheelchairs.

And I'm so thrilled that you want to do everything and you can do everything and that makes a huge difference.

- I'm surprised you didn't run away when you thought about me in a wheelchair, and all that.

- I thought I'd be the first one in a wheelchair.

I'd fall off a ladder somewhere out there and never move again.

- Oh, you did.

- When did you think this could really be something?

- Right away.

Yeah.

- [Barb] Yeah?

It didn't occur to me right away.

- [Pat] We kind of eased into our relationship.

- [Barb] And I liked Pat.

She was easy to talk to, and she was easy to be around.

- I was drawn to Barb in a way that I didn't understand.

It was just something about you that I liked right away.

I was a little upset that you didn't want to go running with me and I had a pretty long list of qualifications for my next partner.

- And then I found out I had to live up to that.

(laughs) If I did have the list, it didn't include somebody who was in the military, especially being so much anti-war that I was, so I had to reconcile the fact that Pat was in the military, but then when she was a nurse, I thought, "Okay, she's taking care of those poor people who are injured, so I can be proud of that."

It took me a lot of learning to understand how the military worked.

I still don't really get all of it, but I could let that be okay with me, even through the separations we had.

(dramatic music) - [Barbara] She said that she had an assignment to Washington DC for three years.

- [Pat] I was asked to be the First Army National Guard Chief Nurse.

I was their first choice.

It was the top rung of my career ladder - That really rocked my world because I had no idea what that would mean.

I really didn't know how I would continue on in this relationship with that long distance.

- I knew that when I left to go to Washington, there was some possibility that our relationship would not survive that.

- [Barbara] I just wasn't sure.

It was hard to think forward three years and see how this relationship could play out.

- [Pat] I knew I had to go.

It was very important to me to go.

I really wanted her to go with me but she was part owner of a business in Sacramento.

- [Barbara] I felt like I had made a commitment by that time and that's when we decided to solidify that commitment by purchasing the gold bands engraved and had our little ceremony out on a rainy night in the car in the parking lot, a little while before she left.

So that was it.

And I knew that I was pretty much in it for the long haul whatever that meant, and would do my best to be a faithful companion, spouse in the relationship.

- [Pat] I wore the gold band and told my family that's a friendship ring.

- [Barbara] Did they ask?

- Well, I knew they would see it and wanna know why I was wearing that ring on my married ring finger.

So that's what I decided to tell them.

And it was wasn't too far from the truth, you know.

- Oh yeah.

- Because it was, - Quite a friendship.

- Yeah, a really good one.

- Within our first year together I began to understand the role of a lesbian partner of a military officer.

It was simple.

Say nothing, do nothing and be invisible.

No clues to our real relationship could ever be revealed in any possible military situation that could threaten her career.

And that was a very touchy subject for me.

- [Pat] When I got to the Pentagon we frequently could not talk on the phone.

We didn't have cell phones, then of course.

we just talked when we could.

- [Barbara] We did not know for sure if the lines might be tapped.

- [Pat] We had heard that they were, - [Speaker Phone] That's a long time of... - So just to be safe, we had to develop a code so that we could communicate.

We got involved with a local psychologist and she wanted lesbians to do a written survey about relationships with a one to five answer code.

So we each took it and started talking.

What did you put for that?

I put a five.

What did you put for that?

I put a five.

We put fives for everything, and we thought that's a good number, that's a good code.

We did our five, our high five, and that's what we did.

There'd be times on the phone, I'd say, you know, it was 55 degrees today.

- Or I'd say it's 5:55 right now.

So we'd throw that in.

And so we always knew that that was saying that I love you without being obvious.

And you were absolutely right when you were talking about the military.

Just hate this oppression.

- [Pat] It's hard for both of us.

I love you for all of the tolerance that you exhibit.

- We were careful about showing any kind of physical affection in public.

When Pat was in Washington.

We were really glad when it rained because we'd got the umbrella.

- [Pat] We loved walking by the White House all cuddled up, - With the umbrella.

That was the way to be close without being obvious.

We've always been rather careful about that.

We were always on guard and society let us know that that was the best way to survive.

- Oh, we are so programmed from wee little that we understand our role because we know we're different.

And so we just do what we have to do.

- Different and disapproved.

I always wanted to say, just screw this because I hated the whole idea.

And there were times when Pat would be leaving to go back to Washington and that was a good excuse to give this long hug at the airport because people do that all the time.

So nobody would look twice at you if you were getting this wonderful long hug or crying when the person left because that happens all the time.

So, that was a safe place.

- [Pat] One time in Washington DC I met her at the airport and we found a broom closet, and we went into that broom closet and closed the door.

Didn't we?

Yeah, 'cause we just had to get close together for more than 30 seconds.

This is just time to, - And nobody seemed to notice.

- So yeah, we would carve out our little spaces and make a life that it was second class, but it got us through.

- After my three year assignment was over I walked out of the Pentagon, took a deep breath and was happy to be going home to California and the woman I loved.

After returning home I really, I remained active in the Army National Guard.

And then in 1992, I received a call from California State Headquarters.

I was asked if I would go to Washington State to preside over a federal recognition board.

They needed a colonel for that job.

And I thought, well, maybe Cammermeyer isn't available because she was their State Chief Nurse.

So a few days later I'd get a large cardboard box in the mail, opened it and it is full of classified information.

And so I take out papers and start looking at them and realize what that Federal Recognition Board is really about.

I said, oh, no, no, no I can't do this because this is about Colonel Cammermeyer.

- I was born during Nazi occupation in Norway.

My parents were part of the Norwegian Underground and we had people who were needing protection living with us for short periods of time to escape the Nazi hunts.

I was just a baby at the time.

It was typical that you walk around in the middle of winter with the baby carriage and that sort of thing.

Only my mother had put some guns that they were given underneath my mattress, and then would pop into an alley and somebody would jump out, took the guns, and then she'd proceed on.

So, I consider sort of a gun runner to begin with.

Being raised under that horrible situation, there's some things involved in how you develop your character that you stand up against the bad guys.

And for us, it was, you know, taking a stand against the Nazis.

I ended up joining the military, graduating, going on active duty first to Texas, then to Fort Benning, Georgia and then to Germany where I ended up meeting my husband and we were married over there.

And I remember vividly feeling that my life is over.

Part of getting married meant that you lost your identity.

We went to Vietnam and then we came back together in 1968, decided that we were gonna start our family, ended up having four sons and my marriage just was getting more and more difficult.

So, became suicidal and almost drove into a telephone pole and then ended up getting some help.

And you know, didn't come up with any resolution other than I needed to get out of this marriage.

I'd had this very forward moving life.

Some friends decided that I needed to meet somebody.

So, they set it up.

I guess one would say the rest is history because we've been together ever since.

The following year when I was then wanting to go to the war college and seeking a top secret clearance as part of the investigation, I had put words to myself in terms of self-identifying as a lesbian and that was based on my relationship that I had formed with Diane.

I thought it was a matter of speaking truth of not ever being in a position of being blackmailed.

So now here I have just told the investigator that I am a lesbian and that is contrary to military standards, and he was going to have a field day.

And for the next five hours I was grilled.

And when I got home and I told Diane what I had said, she said, "Your career is done."

Six months later, I was called into my commander's office in the National Guard and they said, "The Army is going to start discharge proceedings against you."

And I was stunned.

I was embarrassed.

I was hurt.

- For someone like Grethe Cammermeyer, for whom duty and service is clearly so important, the idea of having dedicated your life to the military in that way and all of the sacrifices that come with it, to then have the military say, that dedication was not honorable, your service was not honorable.

That had to be, I would imagine for her, what would've been the the biggest loss - Military family was so important to me.

I just loved being in the military.

I loved representing America.

I loved wearing the uniform and the pomp and ceremony.

- And now they want to kick her out and they want me to preside over that board.

- I would imagine that her decision tree starts with, do I have to do this?

Am I gonna have to proceed?

If I don't, what does that mean?

So, I either move forward with this process I've been given or I don't.

And if I don't, I'm in a sense outing myself because there's gonna need to be an explanation for why am I refusing to do this?

- I've been in the military by this time for 26 years.

I had a PhD in nursing.

I had a bronze star from Vietnam.

I was VA Nurse of the year.

I had four kids.

Now, how dangerous am I to national security?

But they were coming after me.

I had always believed that the Army took care of its own.

And now here they weren't doing that but I didn't want to believe it.

I decided I would challenge my discharge rather than retire.

What do you do as a single person trying to figure out how do you fight the system when you're in the system and knew nothing about lawyers?

I ended up getting hooked up with Lambda Legal Defense and Education Fund.

They were starting a branch in Los Angeles and their first attorney was going to be Mary Newcombe.

We knew that we would probably lose.

They knew.

I was sure that we were gonna win because I was too good to lose in my delusion of grandeur - The Department of Defense was not gonna magically change overnight and decide that Grethe belonged when no one else did.

Grethe had stated she was a lesbian.

Grethe was not gonna withdraw that.

- Grethe Cammermeyer at that point is gonna be discharged regardless.

If Thompson doesn't do it, she's gonna have to figure out and the Army's gonna have to figure out what to do with her.

But someone else is gonna step into that role and oversee the process.

She clearly decides to stay and to run the process and so then she's gotta figure out how she's gonna do it.

- [Grethe] I started looking at the regs and reviewing what was possible and what was not possible.

- The only result that was possible for that board was to discharge Grethe but we did want to be able to take it to the next level and have a court really have to consider the harder issues about why is it okay to have this regulation that bars gay men and lesbians from serving in the military?

- [Grethe] You can't add anything.

Once a case has been heard and you go on to the appeal you have to base it on the record.

- So the administrative record was our spring springboard for getting these issues before a court.

We wanted to put in every bit of evidence we could to allow that to be part of the record.

When we were informed that Colonel Thompson would be the presiding officer, I had no idea who she was.

- [Grethe] She was Chief Nurse of the military.

But there were so many things I didn't know about her personally.

- If Grethe suspected Colonel Thompson was a lesbian she never told me.

I had no idea.

- I was so grateful because she was somebody that I knew and trusted.

- I started getting calls from the Sixth Army headquarters.

The captain kep on saying, "The General wants it done right away."

And I said, "Well, I'll see what I can do."

And then I'm in touch with the people from Cammermeyer's side and they were saying, we can't do it right now because we are waiting for some important people that want to testify.

I said, okay, "I'll hold off as long as I can."

So I would get a call about every two or three days.

"The general wants you to get that board going."

And I said, yeah, "Well, I'm working on that."

"Do you understand that the General really wants that board done and he wants you to do it right away?"

And I'd say, "Well, I'm doing my best, yeah.

Okay, sure.

Thank you."

And so finally I was able to hold him off until they could get the people that they needed there for Colonel Cammermeyer.

- It was only because of the example set by Colonel Thompson that evidence was all accepted.

- The way she did it to sort of slow down the process, make sure that that everything's entered in the record, that Grethe gets her say, risks also bringing attention to her because, if she didn't wanna out herself and didn't wanna bring any suspicion or attention to herself, the easiest thing would've been to run that process as quickly as possible and get it done and deliver what the army clearly wanted which was the discharge of Grethe Cammermeyer.

- I certainly did think this could be me As LGBT and the military that's the one thing we always have in the back of our minds, am I gonna get kicked out?

Am I gonna say something or do something?

So you just kind of live day by day thinking, well, I got through another day, I got through another month, I got through another year.

I didn't get investigated that I know of.

So of course that made me get into her feelings and what was going on with her.

And that made it very difficult for me since she was one of my own.

When I got calls from the Captain, the General was trying to push me.

And Generals can do that and we are supposed to do what the generals say, of course.

But I was in between the two sides.

(dramatic music) It was difficult to pack and to go up there and to be on that board and be on the other side and be looking at her, knowing what was going to happen, listening to her state surgeon, say, please, whatever you do, do not take this nurse away from me.

Listening to her daughter-in-law who had tears running down her face, talking about her boys and how they loved camouflage and how they loved the military.

And there were times that it was very hard for me not to have tears running down my face too, you know.

And I kept talking to myself, Pat, you can't.

You know, you're president of this board.

You can't get emotional and you have got to be stoic.

And so I tried.

I did the best I could, you know.

It was really difficult.

One of the most difficult jobs I've ever had to do.

The last night, I spent most of the time writing what I would say to her the next day.

And one of the things that I felt strongly about was, if the regs changed, then this case would be re-looked.

And so when I met with the board before the hearing, they voted down almost everything I had written.

I said, okay, I'll give that up, but I'm gonna keep this in.

- I truly believe that you are one of the great Americans Margarethe, and I've admired you for a long time and the work that you've done and all that you've done for the Army National Guard.

Notwithstanding the board finds that Colonel Margarethe Cammermeyer is homosexual as defined in AR 135-175, and as evidenced by her statement to DIS agent Brent B. Troutman on 28th, April, 1989 and her admission under oath to this board that she is a lesbian.

I had to tell her that it is now my sad duty to tell you that we have to take your federal recognition.

You will no longer be able to serve in the military.

- Duty, honor, country.

These are real values instilled in the people who serve to live those values as Grethe Cammermeyer clearly did and then have the military discharge you and say that it wasn't honorable service, takes away all of that.

- It's so hard for someone to be complicit in an action they don't believe in.

And she already had made it clear she didn't agree with the fact that Grethe had to be discharged.

I was positive that it had cost her so deeply to have to do it herself.

And yet, I knew that no one else would have been as sensitive to how Grethe felt about being discharged, the cost of Grethe's discharge.

She made such a dramatic difference in the case because of her personal integrity and the statements she made.

I just remember this special moment in time where she articulated everything that was wrong with the regulation, but yet still did her duty.

And I can only imagine how painful that was for her.

(somber music) - After that was over, I was in my car, going back to my quarters, and I cried all the way.

I was really emotionally drained.

I was feeling guilty because I had had to stand up there and take her federal recognition away.

And it wasn't something I wanted to do, but I had done it to her, to one of my own.

But I knew that if I didn't do it, somebody else would do it.

And I was hoping that something that I did, or something that I said, would help her case in the future.

And was hoping that she would be reinstated.

- I don't think there's anything she could have done to save Cammermeyer, beyond what she did do, which was make sure that the proceedings and the official record included everything that Cammermeyer had done in her career.

- I ended up feeling some depression, which I had never felt in my life before.

(somber piano music) I just couldn't shake it.

- The Cammermeyer hearing was so very stressful for Pat, and in turn, for me, especially since I couldn't be with her during that time.

- [Patsy] My next significant military duty was to Panama in 1993.

I returned home from Panama and a retirement dinner was planned by my unit.

- I'm very proud of Patsy Thompson.

We all ought to be proud of her.

She's a citizen.

She's a volunteer.

She's a soldier.

And better than that, she's a nurse.

- [Audience Member] Yes!

Go!

(crowd applauds) - [Patsy] During such occasions, heterosexual couples are allowed to have their spouse next to them at the head table.

But at my dinner, Barb had to sit at another table that was across from me.

"Don't Ask, Don't Tell" was in effect.

And I had no say as to who sat at the head table.

However, we got through it and I was just happy to be retiring, and have more time at home with Barb.

- In 1994, a book about Grethe Cammermeyer's life, titled "Serving In Silence", was published.

Grethe became a national speaker.

She had a speaking engagement at UC Davis, during the time that Pat was on active duty in Panama.

And I attended her speech and approached her afterwards.

- [Grethe] One day, I was at UC Davis.

And after my talk, I was approached by a young woman.

She handed me her card.

And it had both of your names on it.

And I was absolutely floored.

Suddenly, there was this flash in my mind of, "My gosh, what did I put you through?"

- I felt guilty.

I don't know if I would call it betraying you.

I - - Well, I certainly never felt betrayed.

I felt, really, that I couldn't have been more supported under the circumstances of you having to discharge me.

And knew that it was an untenable situation.

Being President of my Board was the most important thing that could ever have happened to my case.

And I would take the liberty to say, to help then, with the repeal of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell."

- I was there reluctantly.

- Your very presence, as well as how you allowed the testimonies to take place, that was vital.

And the reason it was so important was that nobody else would have tolerated, or given us the time to get depositions.

- Well, Sixth Army certainly didn't want to.

- No, they certainly didn't.

If you hadn't given us time to get those last depositions that were very difficult to get, we wouldn't have been able to have the case, that then ended up going to federal court and ruled in my favor that it was unconstitutional.

- Thank you for telling me that because I really wasn't aware and I thought, "Well, I can just get on with my life now."

But I just couldn't forget because at that time, I didn't know that I had played an important role.

- So I was contacted by Barbara Streisand.

They wanted to make a movie.

And when the movie was going to be shown down here, I really wanted you to be part of that, celebrating with us, because we had gotten that far in terms of telling the story of everybody.

And by this time, I knew it was your story also.

It's like, "What is life like, when you have to live under this shadow and concern, and put in situations that are so personally uncomfortable and professionally untenable and that you have done with such grace?"

- Thank you.

It was the first time I had seen you since the Board, and I was glad that you had persisted and insisted that I come to the premiere, because that was a big weight off of my shoulders.

I thought, "Oh my God, that's why I had to be there," you know?

And so that really made a big difference for me.

- We won because of you.

We won our case because of you.

I can't thank you again, enough, for the impact that you had on my life and also the lives of so many others.

- You're very welcome for anything I was able to do.

The greatest thing was when you got reinstated.

- [Grethe] The job that we both had to do was to begin the process of changing the policy.

And even though "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" came in between, we were part of the beginning - - [Patsy] Yes.

- [Grethe] Of the end.

So we can both be proud of that.

- Progress has been fast and relatively recent.

And so when you think back to times, you had people who weren't serving, who were living their lives in a very closeted way.

I wasn't even out when Grethe Cammermeyer was going through what she was going through.

Even at the end of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell", there's still a lot of people serving in silence.

A lot of people thought mistakenly that transgender service was a part of the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy, and therefore was allowed when "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" was repealed, but it wasn't.

I was Chief of Staff to the new Secretary of Defense, Ash Carter, and some very senior people were asking, "What's your intention?

Are you gonna tackle this?"

We pulled the senior leadership together, civilian and military, and he says, "You know, if we're gonna do this, we need to do it with the doors wide open so that people feel welcomed."

- I'm announcing today that we're ending the ban on transgender Americans in the United States military.

Effective immediately, transgender Americans may serve openly.

And they can no longer be discharged, or otherwise separated from the military just for being transgender.

- Post- "Don't Ask, Don't Tell", I was at a senior leadership meeting, and a two-star general came up to me, and took me sorta by the arm and said, "We're a lot alike."

She was slowly easing her way into revealing she's had a partner for 17 years, who's never been able to be a part of her Air Force life.

She's a two-star general.

About to retire, and is debating whether or not to bring this woman openly to her retirement ceremony.

So there's a lot of people struggling with that question and deciding what to do.

And we make those decisions based on worst-case scenarios.

What we fear, the reaction that we might get.

In my experience, there's actually this untapped bastion of support looking for an opportunity to express itself.

And so you have people that you know support you.

You have people that you know will support you.

But you have these people you don't even know exist that are looking for ways to support you.

- Once you begin to tell your story, it impacts people.

- Thompson represents what countless others and we'll never know, had to do in order to serve their country.

Even when you can serve openly, you're making enormous sacrifices that impact your family.

That impact you.

And to have to do it closed, and not to be able to acknowledge your family, who you are, I can't think of a larger sacrifice other than the ultimate one of giving your life.

- You telling your story, and Barbara telling her story, enables others to see that they can also.

And that's, I think what is so important.

The freedom that comes with living your truth is just so emancipating, that allows the door to open.

- [Off-Screen Voice] Action.

Today is the day of Barb and Pat's wedding at City Hall, in San Francisco, California.

- [Patsy] I've been silent long enough.

It's so nice to be able to be who I am now and even to my family.

Coming out to them at the age of 80.

I feel good that they now know who I am.

- [Barb] We had really not come out so totally to the world.

- We also were not out, even to our neighbors.

- [Barb] We thought, "It's a good time to do it."

We know the professor who was looking at having somebody speak for the "Sierra College Gay Pride Days".

So we set it up.

We had never shared any of the details of the story publicly.

- So here we are, up there speaking to a crowd of 500.

I had no idea that there would be so many people in that audience.

(crowd cheering wildly) - [Barb] We have spoken at community colleges, civic groups, churches.

- Thank you so much.

- We are telling people about what's going on in our lives, very openly, to educate.

It's not from a point of view of blaming or accusing, or anything like that.

It's very much, "This is how our life was, and it's better now."

We spoke where my mother lives, at a senior community.

And she seems to be more comfortable with who we are.

We have volunteered as hospice volunteers for over 20 years.

Pat still does that work and has gotten awards for it.

- [Patsy] It's perfect volunteer work for me.

I go out and visit veterans and I thank them for their service.

It just really warms my heart.

- Veterans just start opening up to her.

They're really grateful for that as well, because it's their last chance.

And her work has been incredibly good and and powerful.

- [Patsy] We decided to write a book as well.

- [Barb] And to do a film about our story.

Changed our lives dramatically.

It has given us the street cred to get more people interested in hearing our story.

My feeling was, "Oh yeah, this is just a quaint little tale of two women who suffered through this".

But it's good for history.

Today, the story is not a quaint little tale that we can march off into the sunset together, smiling and holding hands and having all our rights.

We're watching them disappear, daily.

I feel it's even more important now to get out there.

I've been wanting to do something to give back.

First, it was hospice work with our dog.

And then we got involved with our local PFLAG chapter.

- [Crowd] This is what democracy looks like!

- [Barb] I felt that I needed to take the next step.

Doing something that has an impact.

The RATT Pack is "Resistance Action Tuesdays and Thursdays".

And I started that group because after the 2016 election, I knew that people needed some support.

So my thought was to get a group of people together, like-hearted, like-minded, and I put out the word.

- [Patsy] I jumped on board right away because I needed to do something too.

- [Barb] We just kept on adding people.

- With all of my years of military and loving this country, I am so distressed.

Our democracy has been practically destroyed.

And it breaks my heart.

It really does.

- Shut your mouth.

Shut your mouth.

(beep) (beep) Oh, yeah.

I'm a hate crime.

I'm a walking hate crime.

- [News Anchor] This video was captured on May 10th as protestors outside Representative Tom McClintock's office say they were being harassed by a small group of counter-protestors.

- Incessantly harassing us verbally, and occasionally, physically.

He is in your face.

- You and your lesbian lover, Barb?

Don't let her brag, don't want you to stroke out.

- It was very stressful.

He found out our name and where we lived.

And I didn't know if he might show up here.

It was truly the face of what this regime has perpetrated on our country, and we got it firsthand.

- [Patsy] Most of the people driving by are really nice.

They blow their horns and they give us thumbs up.

- [Barb] We've had people bring us hot coffee on a cold and rainy day.

People stop and drop off cold water when it's been super hot out there and thank us.

- It feels like a great release to be able to stand up and hold our signs and try to educate the public.

I have a lot of hope in my heart that this country will be rebuilt.

Our democracy will be back strong.

- The biggest positive in my whole life is to be able to do this together with Pat.

We have an impact in our community.

And I feel like that was what my life was destined to do.

I have waited for this my whole life.

(inspirational music) (inspirational music) (gentle music) - My name is Cindy L. Abel.

I am the director, producer and co-writer of "Surviving the Silence."

"Surviving the Silence" is the untold story of two women in love, who helped change US military policy.

At its core, it's a love story, that also reveals unknown history.

Some people have heard of Colonel Margarethe Cammermeyer, who was dismissed from the Army in 1992.

But many people don't know the backstory.

The story behind the story, if you will.

There was a closeted lesbian colonel, who was charged with dismissing her colleague, Colonel Cammermeyer, for having admitted that she was a lesbian during a security clearance interview.

So Colonel Thompson thought, "How can I do this?

I can't do this to one of my own, even though I'm closeted."

And so she looked at all the different ways that she could handle the situation.

And in the end, the way she handled things led to the eventual reinstatement via Civil Court of Colonel Margarethe Cammermeyer.

I had never heard the story.

It hadn't been shared publicly until eight years ago.

And I happened to be in the room when the story was first told.

I was in Roseville, California, screening my first film, "Breaking Through, Out of the Closet, Into the Halls of Power", about openly LGBTQ elected officials.

And afterwards, these two nice women came up to me and were very kind and generous with their comments.

And then they said, "You know, we're gonna be giving the keynote speech tomorrow."

And I said, "Oh, really?

Tell me a little bit more."

And so they went on to tell me about how they had been together for over 30 years.

How one of them, Colonel Patsy Thompson, had served in the military and had been closeted, in order to not lose her career.

And then she said, "Are you familiar with Colonel Grethe Cammermeyer?"

And I said, "Yes, of course, she's long been a hero of mine."

And then she said, "Well, my wife Pat is the one who had to kick her out."

So I asked her a little bit more about it, and I said, "Well, Colonel Cammermeyer has been one of my heroes since I was first coming out.

Why have I never heard about this?"

And she said, "Well, tomorrow night will be the first time we ever talk about this publicly."

And so next night, I showed up with my tripod on my shoulder and my camera in tow.

And set up and just started filming their talk.

And afterwards I went up to them and I said, "I wanna tell your story."

And they said, "Oh, okay."

And I said, "No, you don't understand.

I want to make a movie about your story."

And they're like, "Oh, oh!"

- I was in between the two sides.

It was difficult to pack and to go up there and to be on that Board and be on the other side and be looking at her, knowing what was going to happen.

I had to tell her that it is now my sad duty to tell you that we have to take your federal recognition.

You will no longer be able to serve in the military.

- In early 2016, we thought we had finished filming.

And we were ready to, as one of our stars, if you will, Barbara Brass, Colonel Pat Thompson's wife, says, "We thought this was just gonna be a movie where we were just walk off holding hands, walking into the sunset."

You know, two women who keep love alive for all this time, all the struggles they went through, with having a government that did not view them as equal.

You know, Pat dedicating her life to serving a country, and loving her country so much, but the country not loving her back in the same way, or not as much.

And so we thought, "This will be a nice little story."

You know, love wins.

And then came 2016.

There were a lot of things that were starting to trigger both Colonel Thompson and her wife, Barbara Brass.

Barbara comes from a family of Holocaust survivors.

Her mother, her father, and her grandfather.

And so, as she started seeing anti-Semitism pop up, you can imagine the impact that that had on her.

Prior to that time, for about a year and a half, transgender folks were allowed to openly serve in the US military.

And then the President, after the election, said, "Oh, no, no, no.

We don't want transgender soldiers."

And so no one else could join who identified as transgender.

And so that was one more hit at the military who we thought had made all this progress.

And so as this was happening, it was like, "We are not at the end of the story yet."

And so we went back out, we continued filming, to provide the context of people work really hard, they become visible, they help change laws.

A new President comes along and those laws can change, just like that.

And so we had to include that in our film because that's one of the things.

It's not just a love story.

It's not just history about these two older white women who went through trials and "ta-da", emerged on the other side.

It really is a sense of how America does history.

And if we look at a lot of the civil rights battles, every single thing that has been won is now up for grabs again.

And it's like, "We never get to rest."

And that's what's so inspiring to me about this story, is it's a love story.

It reveals history.

It's about two women.

And yet it's about all of us.

As LGBTQ folks, we often don't know our history.

There's a lot of stuff that isn't taught in school.

One of them being, the contributions of the LGBTQ community.

And so we're left with stereotypes.

We're left with these little film bits here and there that are not really representative most of the time, of most of our experiences.

And yet, we're judged and evaluated and voted upon by people who only see the stereotypes and the little tiny sound bites.

Having our film, "Surviving The Silence", be the opening night film for "Out on Films" festival, was just a tremendous honor.

Here's this film that we worked on for seven years, finally coming to fruition.

And being able to present it to the world and say, "Okay, here's my baby.

What do you think?"

Feel free to judge.

It's a little bit daunting.

And at the same time, it's also a really great honor to say, "Here's a story that I think will help change your life and will have impact on your life, please take a look."

We're coming up on our 50th Film Festival in a couple weeks.

And there are film festivals that are Human Rights Festivals, LGBTQ Festivals, Women's Festivals, Independent Film Festivals.

And it's unbelievable sometimes to me, that here's a story that we set out to tell because something told me there's a story here that we need to dig more and discover more and share.

And now the world is receiving it.

And receiving it so kindly and so generously.

And that's a tremendous honor.

- After so many amazing films, it seems our time together has come to an end.

I want to thank "Out on Film" for helping us curate an incredible selection of work from local filmmakers telling queer stories.

"Out on Film" provides a platform for the filmmakers they champion.

As an audience, we get to experience so many beautiful, funny and heartwarming stories.

It's our honor at "Atlanta on Film" to present this showcase of work for people learning about films or filmmakers themselves, to watch and be inspired by the creations of their fellow Atlantians.

Next week, come back to meet our next host, Bobby Huntley, and watch some great films shared with us from our partnership with the "Morehouse Human Rights Festival."

With that, I'm your host, Jono Mitchell.

This is "Atlanta on Film".

Have a great evening.

(light jazz music) (light jazz music) W-A-B-E (music tones)