WELCOME TO "KENTUCKY TONIGHT."

I'M RENEE SHAW.

THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH IS FOR JOINING us IT WAS A BUSY FIRST WEEK FOR THE 2021 KENTUCKY GENERAL ASSEMBLY AS REPUBLICAN LAWMAKERS DID WHAT THEY VOWED TO DO: PASS BILLS LIMITING THE GOV EMERGENCY POWERS.

TODAY A HOUSE COMMITTEE WAS FORMED TO CONSIDEN CITIZEN IMPEACHMENT PETITION OF GOVERNOR ANDY BESHEAR OVER HIS COVID-19 RESTRICTIONS.

ALL OF THIS AMID NEW TENSIONS NATIONWIDE, AFTER A MOB STORMED THE U.S. CAPITOL IN WASHINGTON AND THE FBI TODAY WARNS OF POSSIBLE ARMED PROTESTS IN ALL 50 STATES BEGINNING JANUARY 16th.

SO TO DISCUSS THIS PAST WEEK AND WHAT'S NEXT WE ARE JOINED IN OUR LEXINGTON STUDIO BY STATE REPRESENTATIVE ANGIE HATTON, THE HOUSE MINORITY WHIP AND A DEMOCRAT FROM WHITESBURG.

AND STATE SENATOR REGGIE THOMA THE STATE MINORITY CAUCUS CHAIR AND A DEMOCRAT FROM LEXINGTON.

IN OUR FRANKFORT BUREAU WE HAVE STATE SENATOR DAVID GIVENS, SENATE PRESIDENT PRO-TEM, AND A REPUBLICAN FROM GREENSBURG.

AND STATE REPRESENTATIVE DAVID MEADE, HOUSE SPEAKER PRO-TEM AN A REPUBLICAN FROM STANFORD.

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I WANT TO START WITH SOME OF THE NEWS OF REPRESENTATIVE HATTON ABOUT THIS IMPEACHMENT PETITION.

THE HOUSE TODAY FORMED A COMMITTEE ON WHICH YOU L. WHICH YOU HIT THE.

I THINK REPRESENTATIVE JASON NEMES THE CHAIR OF THAT COMMITTEE.

THIS IS A PETITION THAT WAS SIGNED BY FOUR SEVERANCES GOVERNOR BESHEAR'S COVID-19 RESTRICTIONS.

IT LISTS EIGHT GROUNDS FOR WHICH HE SHOULD BE PREACHED.

WHAT CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT THE WORK OF THIS COMMITTEE AND THE PROCESS?

>> WELL, RENEE, THE LANGUAGE THAT MANDATES THE FORMAT OF THESE COMMITTEES IS A LITTLE BIT VAGUE.

IT MANDATES THAT WE FORM A COMMITTEE, ANDY BEYOND THAT IT'S MORE PERMISSIVE LANGUAGE, AND WE'RE NOT SURE EXACTLY WHAT IT'S GOING TO LOOK LIKE.

BUT BEING A MEMBER OF THE COMMITTEE, I DON'T WANT TO COMMENT ON ANYTHING SPECIFIC ABOUT WHAT WE MIGHT BE LATER RULING ON OR RECOMMENDING BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO RECUSE MYSELF FROM A VOTE.

>> SURE.

>> BUT I WOULD SAY THAT WE WILL KNOW MORE AFTER THE COMMITTEE MEETS FOR THE FIRST TIME.

>> AND HOW MANY ARE ON THE COMMITTEE?

>> THERE ARE SEVEN.

>> AND IS IT A PARTISAN SPLIT EQUAL?

>> IT'S NOT EQUAL BUT IT'S NOT TERRIBLY UNEQUAL.

THERE ARE FOUR REPUBLICANS, AND I CAN TELL YOU THOSE NAMES IF YOU'D LIKE TO HEAR.

>> SURE.

>> SUES AN MYLES, REPRESENTATIVE NEM ES AS YOU SAID, REPRESENTATIVE MASSIE AND THEN ALSO REPRESENTATIVE KIM KING, AND THEN THE THREE DEMOCRATS ON THE COMMITTEE ARE REPRESENTATIVE PATTY MENTOR FROM BOWLING GREEN AND REPRESENTATIVE GEORGE BREON AND MYSELF.

>> SO HOW ARE THEY SELECTED?

IS IT RANDOM?

>> WE WERE JUST TOLD TODAY BY THE SPEAKER IN THEIR COMMITTEE ON COMMITTEES MEETING.

>> LET'S GO TO THE SPEAKER PRO-TEM.

REPRESENTATIVE MEADE, WHAT MORE CAN YOU ADD TO THIS DISCUSSION AND ABOUT THE PROCESS FOR THIS IMPEACHMENT PROCESS?

AND HOW IT WILL GO, THE POSSIBLE DATELINES-FOR-A RESOLUTION?

WHAT CAN YOU ADD TO THIS?

>> WELL, RENEE, THE HOUSE CLERK RECEIVED A PETITION FROM FOUR KENTUCKY CITIZENS, AS YOU SAID.

THAT WAS SUPPORTED BY ABOUT 50 AFFIDAVITS, INCLUDED WITH THAT, AND IT'S RARE THAT WE RECEIVE THESE IMPEACHMENT ARTICLES WHEN FILLED OUT PROPERLY, THE WAY THIS ONE IS WITH THE PROPER SIGNATURES TO IT, AND THE CONSTITUTION DICTATES AND THE STATUTE DICTATES HOW WE TAKE THAT UP, THAT THE COMMITTEE MUST BE FORMED,'S REPRESENTATIVE HATTON HAS ALREADY SAID.

THE REASON THAT THESE FOLKS WERE SELECTED FOR THIS COMMITTEE IS BECAUSE IF YOU REMEMBER LAST YEAR, WE FORMED A COMMITTEE THAT WAS GOING TO LOOK INTO THE IMPEACHMENT ONE OF OUR CIRCUIT JUDGES HERE IN THE STATE OF KENTUCKY, AND SINCE THOSE FOLKS HAD ALREADY BEEN SERVING ON THAT COMMITTEE, THEY HAD ALREADY GOTTEN EXPERIENCED WITH SOME OF THE WAYS THAT THAT SHOULD OPERATOR, WE DECIDED THAT THEY WOULD BE OPERATE, WE DECIDED THAT THEY SHOULD BE THE ONES TO CONTINUE IN THAT COMMITTEE, AND AS SHE SAID THOSE ARTICLES WILL BE SENT TO THAT COMMITTEE AND FROM THERE IT WILL BE TURNED OVER AND REPRESENTATIVE NEMES WILL BE SURE I'M SURE MEETING WITH THEM ON THAT.

AS FAR AS A TIMELINE, IT'S THE COMMITTEE'S PREROGATIVE FROM THAT POINT FORWARD TO DO THE INVESTIGATION AND MAKE THE DECISIONS FROM THERE ON.

>> SO THIS WORK COULD HAPPEN DURING THE INTERIM PART, CORRECT?

COULD THESE MEETINGS BE TAKING PLACE SO THAT BY THE TIME PART 2 OF THE SESSION RESUMES IN FEBRUARY, THERE COULD BE RESOLUTION?

IS THAT A POSSIBILITY, REPRESENTATIVE MEADE SOME OF.

>> I BELIEVE THAT THEY CAN MEET DURING THE INTERIM WHILE WE WERE OFF.

AS LONG AS THAT COMMITTEE WRAPS UP BY THE END OF SESSION, THAT IS ALL THAT MATTERS.

>> SO MANY PEOPLE ARE CURIOUS ABOUT HOW ONE PERSON OR A GROUP OF PEOPLE CAN GET THIS KIND OF PROCESS GOING, BUT IT SAYS A PETITION FOR IMPEACHMENT, 6.3.

O.30 ANY PERSON MAY BY WRITTEN PETITION TO THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES SIGN BY HIMSELF VERIFIED BY HIS OWN AFFIDAVIT AND THE THE AFFIDAVITS OF SUCH OTHERS AS HE DEEMS NECESSARY, AND SETTING FORTH THE FACTS FOR THE IMPEACHMENT ANY OFFICER.

SENATOR THOMAS, ARE YOU SURPRISED BY THIS ACTION?

AND HOW DO YOU HOPE THE HOUSE WILL RESPOND?

>> RENEE, I AM NOT SURPRISED BUT THIS IS CERTAINLY UNWARRANTED.

GOVERNOR BESHEAR HAS DONE NOTHING TO DESERVE BEING IMPEACHED.

YOU CERTAINLY CAN DISAGREE WITH HIS APPROACHES.

I PERSONALLY DON'T.

I THINK HE'S DONE AN EXTRAORDINARY JOB AND I'LL GO MORE INTO THAT LATER.

BUT TO DO SOMETHING THAT'S IMPEACHABLE, IT'S JUST WILDLY BIZARRE.

I HOPE ANGIE, REPRESENTATIVE HATTON AND HER COMMITTEE COME BACK AND SAY THIS IS TOTALLY UNFOUNDED AND LET'S MOVE ON WITH DEALING WITH MORE IMPORTANT BUSINESS THAT WE'VE GOT TO DEAL WITH THE STATE RATHER THAN FOCUSING ON SOME MERITLESS IMPEACHMENT CLAIMS.

>> SENATOR GIVENS, WE'VE HEARD THAT LAWMAKERS ON BOTH SIDES OF PERHAPS THE AISLE AND BICAMERALY HAVE BEEN RECEIVING COMPLAINTS FROM CONSTITUENTS ABOUT HIS RESTRICTIONS ENACTED BY EXECUTIVE ORDER BY THE GOVERNOR.

HAS THAT BEEN YOUR EXPERIENCE?

AND WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT THIS PROCESS?

AND IF IT WERE TO MOVE TO A SENATE TRIAL?

>> RENEE, FIRST OF ALL, THANKS FOR THE CHANCE TO BE ON YOUR PROGRAM AND TO TALK AT LENGTH ABOUT THESE SORTS OF THINGS.

I CERTAINLY HAVE SEARED HEFT ANGST FROM THE CITIZENS ACROSS THE COMMONWEALTH.

THE WORD "IMPEACHMENT" HAS BEEN RAISED A FEW TIMES IN CONVERSATIONS.

I HAVE LARGELY PUSHED BACK TO SAY I DON'T THINK THE GOVERNOR HAS DONE ANYTHING THAT RISES TO THAT LEVEL, BUT WE IN THE SENATE WILL CERTAINLY AWAIT ACTION BY THE HOUSE.

WE'RE ALL STUDENTS AND STEWARDS OF THE PROCESS, AND SO WE WILL CERTAINLY WAIT TO SEE WHAT THE HOUSE DOES.

>> Renee: SO REPRESENTATIVE MEADE I DO WANT TO ASK YOU JUST AS YOUR OWN PERSONAL OPINION DOWNTOWN BELIEVE THAT THE ACTIONS OF THE GOVERNOR RISE TO THE LEVEL OF IMPEACHABLE OFFENSES?

>> I'LL SAY THIS, RENEE, THAT THIS AGAIN IS EXTREMELY RARE IT HAS ONLY HAPPENED WITH A CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICER FOUR TIMES IN OUR STATE'S HISTORY.

THREE THOSE TIMES IT WAS DISMISSED.

I BELIEVE IT WAS TWICE THAT IT MADE IT THROUGH THE HOUSE.

>> THE SENATE BUT ONLY ONE TIME HAS A KOUGL OFFICER IN OUR STATE BEEN IMPEACHED AND THAT I WAS TREASURER WHO ACTUALLY STOLE FROM THE TREASURY AND WAS CONVICTED OF THAT.

I HAVE TAKEN THE APPROACH, THE SAME AS THE SPEAKER, THAT SINCE WE ARE THE PRESIDING OFFICERS OF THE HOUSE, THAT IT IS NOT -- IT IS NOT SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO BE COMMENTING ON RIGHT NOW IN FORMING A BIASED OPINION ON.

I THINK THAT IT'S NOT AN ANSWER THAT'S GOING TO MAKE PEOPLE HAPPY ON EITHER SIDE.

BUT I THINK IF WE WERE CITIZENS GOING INTO A COURTROOM BEFORE A JUDGE, WE WOULD WANT TO KNOW THAT THAT JUDGE HAS NOT COME TO A PREDETERMINED DECISION PRIOR TO PUTTING US ON TRIAL, AND THAT'S WHERE WE STAND IN CONTINUING TO OPERATE IN AN UNBIASED MANNER.

>> AND THERE NEVER HAS BEEN A GOVERNOR THAT HAS FACED THIS LEVEL SCRUTINY IN AN IMPEACHMENT PROCESS, CORRECT?

IT'S BEEN CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS, THE TREASURER, AS YOU MENTIONED, JAMES W. HONEST DICTATE BACK IN 1988 WHO KIND OF VANISH WITHOUT A TRACE AND WAS IMPEACHED AND CONVICTED IN ABSTENTION.

SO THIS HAS NOT BEEN THE CASE FOR A SITTING GOVERNOR, SO THIS WOULD BE THE FIRST TIME THIS PROCESS WOULD TAKE PLACE.

>> THAT'S CORRECT, THIS WOULD BE THE FIRST TIME THAT I GOVERNOR HAS FACED IT.

>> IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE, REPRESENTATIVE HATTON ANY KNOW THAT YOU'RE IN A TENUOUS POSITION BAUERS ON THE COMMITTEE.

ANY OTHER LIGHT YOU CAN SHED ABOUT THE PROCESS AND WHAT WE CAN EXPECT?

WILL THOSE HEARINGS THAT YOU ALL UNDERTAKE, WILL THEY BE MADE PUBLIC?

WILL KET BE ALLOWED NOT BE ROOM TO SHARE THAT AND PUT SUNSHINE ON THAT PROCESS?

>> RENEE, I SURE DON'T HAVE THE ANSWERS YET.

WE WERE JUST APPOINTED TODAY, AND, LIKE REPRESENTATIVE MEADE JUST SAID, I WAS ON THE IMPEACHMENT COMMITTEE FOR THE JUDGE WHO WAS ACCUSED OF SOME WRONGDOING LAST SESSION, AND IN THAT CASE WE DID MEET ONE TIME TO ADOPT OUR ROLES RULES WHO ARE HOW WE WERE GOING TO OPERATE, AND WE ALL HAD SOME INPUT ON HOW THAT WAS TO TAKE PLACE SO I HOPE THAT'S THE CASE AGAIN.

>> WE'LL LEAVE IT THERE.

I DO THINK CONSTITUENTS, SENIOR CITIZENS CONCERNED ABOUT HOW MUCH TIME THIS MAY TAKE AWAY FROM OTHER CRITICAL MATTERS, AND KNOWING THAT THIS IS A SHORT ABBREVIATED 30-DAY SESSION.

A LOT OF THINGS HAVE ALREADY HAPPENED IN THE FIRST FIVE OR SIX DAYS, BUT PEOPLE ARE CONCERNED ABOUT HOW MUCH THIS IS GOING TO CONSUME THE ATTENTION OF LAWMAKERS AT SUCH A CRITICAL, CRITICAL TIME, REPRESENTATIVE HATTON.

>> I THINK THAT IT WILL CONSUME OUR TIME IF WE ARE TRYING TO READ ALL OUR EMAILS.

I WAS JOKING TODAY WITH THE SPEAKER THAT I WOULD REQUEST SIMILAR STAFF TO HELP ME DEAL WITH THE THOUSAND FOLD INCREASE IN eMAILS THAT I THINK I'M GOING TO GET NOW THAT I'VE GOTTEN ON THIS IMPEACHMENT COMMITTEE JUST BECAUSE THERE ARE SUCH STRONG OPINIONS ON BOTH SIDES, AND THOSE WHO WANT TO PROTEST FOR AND AGAINST THE GOVERNOR AND -- BUT HOPEFULLY IT JUST WILL EAT UP TIME FOR THIS COMMITTEE AND NOT SO MUCH FOR THE REST OF THE HOUSE.

>> LAST QUESTION TO YOU, REPRESENTATIVE MEADE.

SPEAKER OSBORNE DURING A PRESS CONFERENCE THAT WAS HEARD ON THE HOUSE REPUBLICANS FACEBOOK PAGE SAID THAT YOU DO HAVE THE OBLIGATION TO TAKE THESE ALLEGATIONS AND THIS PETITION SERIOUSLY.

AND I MENTIONED EARLIER ABOUT, YOU KNOW, ANY PERSON CAN FILE THIS AND GET THIS INTO MOTION.

HOW SERIOUSLY ARE YOU TAKING IT?

>> WELL, AGAIN, RENEE, THESE ARE SERIOUS ALLEGATIONS, AND WHEN WE RECEIVED THOSE ARTICLES IN A FORM THAT IS DRAFTED CORRECTLY AND PROPERLY AND FILLED OUT PROPERLY AND AS THE CONSTITUTION DICTATES, THEN WE HAVE TO TAKE IT SERIOUSLY.

AND AGAIN, THE ALLEGATIONS ARE TO UNDO AN ELECTION.

SO WHEN YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT THOSE THINGS AND THOSE TYPE OF CONSEQUENCES, WE ARE GOING TO TAKE IT VERY SERIOUSLY.

>> AND THIS IS NOT ABOUT BEHAVIOR OR A CRIMINAL WRONGDOING, PERHAPS.

IT'S ABOUT RESTRICTIONS THAT EVEN MAYBE -- NOT MAYBE -- THE KENTUCKY SUPREME COURT UPHELD.

AM I MISTAKEN IN MY INTERPRETATION OF THAT, REPRESENTATIVE MEADE?

AND OTHERS, FOR THAT MATTER.

>> THERE ARE SEVERAL ALLEGATIONS IN THOSE -- IF THATY.

PHIPPS WE HAVE OUR ATTORNEYS GOING THROUGH THAT RIGHT NOW, AND I'M REALLY AT NOT AT LIBERTY I GUESS TO COMMENT RIGHT NOW ON WHETHER OR NOT THAT WOULD BE UPHELD CONSTITUTIONAL OR NOT.

>> SENATOR THOMAS, DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING YOU'D LIKE TO CHIME IN IN?

RELIGIOUS LIBERTY THINGS, THOSE WERE THE THINGS THAT WERE CITED IN SOME OF THOSE CHARGES.

>> RENEE, WHERE IS THE WRONGFUL CONDUCT?

WOULDN'T HAVE A SITUATION WHERE GOVERNOR MEASURES STOLEN ANY MONEY.

WE DON'T HAVE A SITUATION WHERE HE'S BEEN CAVITY EVER CAVORTING WITH A FOREIGN NATION.

WE DON'T HAVE A SITUATION WHERE HE'S ENGAGED IN A INSURRECTION OF CAPITAL GROUNDS.

YOU CAN DISAGREE WITH US OR THE GOVERNOR OVER POLICY.

THAT'S A FAIR DEBATE.

BUT AGAIN, TO TAKE UP VALUABLE TIME AND RESOURCES OF THE LEGISLATURE AT A TIME WHEN WE'VE GOT TO DEAL WITH A PANDEMIC, A CRITICAL EMERGENCY THAT IS CLUTCHING AT THE THROATS AND KILLING OUR PEOPLE, THIS IS A GROSS WASTE OF TIME, RENEE.

>> I DO WANT TO GET TO ONE OF THE POINTS YOU MADE TO TALK ABOUT NOT NECESSARILY ABOUT THE INSURRECTION IN THE NATION'S CAPITOL, BUT WE DO KNOW THAT THE FBI HAS GOTTEN SOME INTEL, PERHAPS, THAT SUGGESTS THAT THERE ARE THREATS TO ALL THE NATIONS 50 CAPITOLS AND POSSIBLY AN UPRISING PLANNED AGAIN IN WASHINGTON THAT COULD START AS EARLY AS JANUARY 16th.

ON SATURDAY WHEN WE WERE THERE, WE ALL WERE THERE ON SATURDAY A RARE SATURDAY SESSION.

WILL THERE WERE SEVERAL DOZEN ARMED MILITIA ON THE GROUND IN FATIGUES ACTUALLY, MILITARY FATIGUES ROAMING THE CAPITOL GROUNDS.

AND I'M CURIOUS, SENATOR GIVENS, YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT THAT ACTIVITY.

I THINK MICHIGAN HAS EVEN TAKEN THE POSITION THAT THEY ARE BANNING WEAPONS INTO THE STATE CAPITOL.

HOW CONCERNED ARE YOU ABOUT THAT TYPE OF PRESENCE ON KENTUCKY STATE CAPITOL GROUNDS?

AND WHAT DO YOU THINK SHOULD BE DONE, IF ANYTHING, ABOUT IT?

>> RENEE, I THINK WE'RE ALWAYS MINDFUL OF THE SAFETY YOUR CITIZENS, THE SAFETY OUR COLLEAGUES, AND ALSO MAINTAINING THAT BALANCE OF PERSONS PERSON'S RIGHT TO PEACEFUL PROTEST.

PEACEFUL PROTESTING AND DANGEROUS RIOTING ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.

I'M VERY SUPPORTIVE OF PEACEFUL PROTESTING.

I'M STRONGLY OPPOSED TO DANGEROUS RIOTING OR INFLAMMATORY RHETORIC THAT INSIGHTS THAT SORT OF RIOTING.

INCYTES.

WITH REGARD TO THE CITIZENS WE HAD HERE ON SATURDAY, THEY WERE PEACEABLE.

THEY DID NOT CONDUCT THEMSELVES IN ANY FASHION THAT WAS DIRECTLY THREATENING.

THE PERCEPTION IS THAT WHEN YOU SEE FOLKS WALKING AROUND WITH LONG GUNS AND ARMS IN OUR SOCIETY TODAY, THAT SOMETIMES DOES CONVEY A SENSE OF THREAT.

NO ONE -- I WALKED THROUGH THE GROUP AS I WAS MOVING FROM THE ANNEX TO THE CAPITOL SATURDAY IN THE MIDST OF OUR PROCEEDINGS.

DID I NOT FEEL THREATENED AT THE TIME AND CERTAINLY HAD NO REASON TO FEEL THREAT.

NOW, WITH REGARD TO WHAT DO WE DO AND WHAT IS OUR PLAN, WE HAD ANOTHER DISCUSSION ABOUT THAT VERY TOPIC TODAY.

WE WERE UPDATED BY ONE OF OUR COLLEAGUES IN THE SENATE THAT'S LEADING AN EFFORT THAT STARTED IN THE SUMMER OF LAST YEAR AS IT RELATES TO CAPITOL GROUNDS, CAPITOL SECURITY AND HOW DO WE PROVIDE SPACE AND BALANCE.

WE NEED TO ALWAYS BE MINDFUL THAT CITIZENS, GIVEN THE CHANCE TO PROTEST PEACEFULLY, SHOULD BE GIVEN THAT SAFEGUARD.

THAT'S ONE OF THE TENANTS OF OUR DEMOCRACY, BUT NO ONE SHOULD FREEDOM, AND STRIKING THAT BALANCE HAS TO BE DONE THROUGH A PROCESS.

WE CAN'T UNILATERALLY OR ARBITRARILY SAY WE LIKE THIS GROUP, WE WANT THIS GROUP TO HAVE THE SPACE.

WE DON'T LIKE THAT GROUP, WE DON'T WANT THIS GROUP TO HAVE THE SPACE.

SO I THINK WE'VE GOT TO BE MIND OF THE OF THE PROCESS THAT'S STILL IN THE WORK NOW.

I FEEL CONFIDENT THAT YOU WILL SEE LEGISLATION FILED THE FIRST WEEK THAT WE RETURN AFTER THE BREAK AS IT WILL RELATES TO HOW DO WE MAINTAIN THIS SPACE, A SPACE THAT BELONGS UTILITY CITIZENS, CITIZENS WITH VOICES THAT WE AGREE WITH AND CITIZENS WITH VOICES WE MAY NOT AGREE WITH, HOW WE MAINTAIN THAT SPACE IN A SAFE WAY THAT MAKES EVERYONE FEEL WELCOME, NO ONE FEEL THREATENED, BUT EVERYONE HEARD.

>> WHO IS THE SENATOR IN CHARGE OF THAT PARTICULAR LEGISLATION, SENATOR GIVENS?

CAN YOU ENLIGHTEN US?

>> I CERTAINLY CAN.

THAT'S SENATOR DANNY CARROLL, AND HE IS GOING TO BE WORKING WITH ALL THREE BRANCHES GOVERNMENT TO MAKE SURE THAT ALL THE VOICES ARE HEARD AS IT RELATES TO EXECUTIVE BRANCH, THE JUDICIAL BRANCH AND OBVIOUSLY THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH.

>> REPRESENTATIVE MEADE, CAN I GET YOUR THOUGHTS ON THIS?

AND HAVE YOU ALREADY ALREADY BEEN IN CONVERSATIONS WITH YOUR BRETHREN IN THE UPPER CHAMBER AS WE SAY, TO TALK ABOUT THIS VERY ISSUE?

>> WELL, I WILL SAY THAT, FIRST, RENEE, GROWING UP, OWNING GUNS AND USING GUNS, GUNS DON'T ALARM ME AND LAW-ABIDING CITIZENS WITH GUNS DON'T ALARM ME.

SATURDAY THAT'S WHAT I SAW, WAS A PEACEFUL PROTEST AS SENATOR GIVENS HAS SAID.

GRANTED I ONLY WALKED THROUGH FOR JUST A FEW SECONDS, BUT NOTHING DREW AN ALARM FOR ME THAT IT WAS ANY MORE THAN JUST A PEACEFUL PROTEST.

WE EVEN HAD A REPORT AT ONE POINT THAT SAID THAT THEY WERE COLLECTING CANNED GOODS FOR UNDERPRIVILEGED AND DISABLED VETERANS.

SO NOTHING LED ME TO BELIEVE THAT IT WAS ANYTHING MORE THAN A PEACEFUL PROTEST.

AS FOR A CALL OF VIOLENCE TOWARDS THE CAPITOLS, I'VE HEARD THE SAME REPORTS THAT YOU HAVE, BUT I BELIEVE THAT THE PEOPLE OF THIS STATE ARE JUST GOOD, HARD-WORKING, OVENS PEOPLE, THAT THEY'RE KIND AND THEY'RE LOVING PEOPLE, AND I THINK THAT THIS STATE IS ABOVE THAT.

I BELIEVE THAT YOU WILL SEE PEOPLE HERE BUT I BELIEVE IT WILL BE FOR A PEACEFUL PROTEST, AND THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS FOR THOSE FOLKS TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT.

THERE'S A LOT OF DISTRUST RIGHT NOW THAT THEY FEEL.

AND IT'S IMPORTANT THAT THEY VOICE THAT.

BUT WHEN IT BECOMES DEGRADING OR IT BECOMES VIOLENCE, AT THAT POINT IT'S GONE TOO FAR, AND I AGREE WITH SENATOR GIVENS THAT IT DOESN'T NEED TO REACH THAT POINT AND SHOULDN'T REACH THAT POINT.

AND IF IT DOES, I HAVE FULL FAITH AND CONFIDENCE IN KENTUCKY STATE POLICE AND CAPITOL SECURITY TO DO WHAT IS NECESSARY TO PROTECT EVERYONE HERE.

>> REPRESENTATIVE HATTON.

>> WELL, RENEE, I NEVER FELT THREATENED.

I SUPPORT FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS AS WELL AS SECONDAO RIGHTS.

I'M PRETTY COMFORTABLE AROUND FIREARMS MYSELF.

THE ONLY THING -- I WILL SAY THAT THERE WAS SOME STAFF WHO WERE UNCOMFORTABLE, AND A LOT OF US DID HAVE FRIEND AND FAMILY MEMBERS WHO WERE WORRIED ABOUT US BECAUSE THEY WERE SEEING THIS ON THE NEWS, AND KNEW THAT WE WERE INSIDE AND IT WAS JUST AFTER WHAT HAD HAPPENED ON WEDNESDAY, BUT WE WERE INSIDE IN THE CHAMBER SO WE DIDN'T EVEN REALLY SEE VERY MUCH THEM.

THE ONLY THING THAT REALLY WAS THREATENING IS THE FACT THAT THEY WEREN'T GOING TO WEAR MASKS BECAUSE THIS IS STILL A PANDEMIC AND IT WAS INTERESTING BECAUSE WHEN THEY -- WHEN THE SECOND AMENDMENT PROTESTS WERE HAPPENING ALL LAST YEAR, ONE OF THE BIG CONCERNS WAS THAT PEOPLE WEAR MASKS' THEY WENT INTO THE CAPITOL WHICH WAS AGAINST THE RULES, SO THEY DIDN'T WEAR MASKS NOW WHEN WE'RE ASKING THEM TO.

OTHER THAN THAT I NEVER FELT THREATENED, AND I THINK PART OF IT'S BECAUSE KENTUCKY HAD FREE AND FAIR ELECTIONS.

OUR GOVERNOR AND OUR SECRETARY OF STATE WORKED TOGETHER TO MAKE SURE THAT OUR ELECTIONS WERE FAIR.

THEIR THAT IF PEOPLE WERE MORE WORRIED ABOUT THAT PROCESS HERE, THEN MAYBE WE'D BE MORE WORRIED.

>> BUT HAD THEY -- HAD THE CAPITOL ACTUALLY BEEN OPENED AND THEY COULD HAVE GOTTEN ACCESS TO THE ROTUNDA, TO THE THIRD FLOOR WHERE YOU ALL DO YOUR BUSINESS WEEK WOULD YOU HAVE FELT DIFFERENTLY ABOUT THEIR PRESENCE?

>> POSSIBLY.

YOU KNOW, THERE WAS A SIGN THAT HAD BEEN PRE-MADE, PROFESSIONALLY MADE SIGN DURING HANGING OF A PUBLIC OFFICIAL.

I THOUGHT THAT WAS AN OVERT THREATENING THING.

BUT WALKING AROUND, CHANTING, THOSE SORTS OF THINGS, MUCH LIKE THE BLACK LIVES MATTER PROTESTS, THEY WEREN'T SCARY.

BUT I GUESS IT WOULD HAVE DEPEND ON THEIR BEHAVIOR.

>> SENATOR THOMAS?

>> RENEE, I'M GOING TO AGREE WITH SENATORING GIVENS BUT I'M GOING TO TAKE ISSUE WITH WHAT REPRESENTATIVE MEADE SAID.

I THINK WHEN YOU PROTEST, A LOT DEPENDS, RENEE, ON WHAT KIND OF MESSAGE YOU WANT TO SEND TO PEOPLE.

YOU CAN PROTEST AND WALK, LOCK ARM IN ARM LIKE WE SEE IN THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT AND TO A LARGE EXTENT IN THE BLACK LIVES MATTER MOVEMENT, WALK, PEOPLE SINGING, PEOPLE CHANTING, AND THAT KIND OF GATHERING, AND THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT.

AND SENATOR GIVENS IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

OUR CONSTITUTION PROTECTS PEACEFUL PROTESTS, AND I I SAID THAT ON SATURDAY.

I, TOO, WALKED IN THAT CROWD, BELIEVE IT OR NOT, RENEE AND THEY WERE PEACEFUL AND THEY WERE POLITE.

I HAD NO ALTERCATIONS WHATSOEVER.

BUT GOING BACK TO THE MESSAGE, RENEE, WHEN YOU'RE CARRYING ASSAULT-STYLE WEAPONS THAT ARE QUITE VISIBLE AND YOU HAVE YOUR HAND OVER THEM, THAT'S A DIFFERENT MESSAGE THAN LOCKING ARMS AND SINGING SPIRITUAL SONGS, AND SO YOU'VE GOT TO TAKE THAT INTO ACCOUNT.

AND WHEN YOU DO THAT, YOU'RE SENDING A MESSAGE OF THREAT.

YOU'RE SENDING MESSAGES OF INTIMIDATION LIKE REPRESENTATIVE MEADE, I GREW UP WITH GUNS TOO.

I HAD GRANDPARENTS THAT HAD RIFLES AND SHOTGUNS AND HANDGUNS, SO I'VE BEEN EXPOSE TODAY THAT.

BUT I THINK YOU SEND A DIFFERENT MESSAGE, RENEE AI, AND THIS IS I WHY I STRONGLY DISAGREE WITH REPRESENTATIVE MEADE WHEN YOU'RE ON THE CAPITOL GROUNDS RIGHT NEXT TO THE DOORWAY WITH ASSAULT STYLE WEAPONS, CLEARLY, CLEARLY, CLEARLY VISIBLE, AND WITH YOUR ARMS LOCKED AROUND THEM.

AND THAT'S WHAT'S DANGEROUS.

>> SENATOR GIVENS, DO YOU HAVE ANY COMMENT TO THAT BEFORE WE MOVE ON AND WE'LL TALK ABOUT SOME LEGISLATION THAT IS MAKING ITS WAY TO THE GOVERNOR'S DESK.

>> RENEE, BRIEFLY, I DO.

AND I WAS PLEASED WITH THE CONVERSATION THAT I HEARD AROUND THE CAPITOL THIS WEEK, AND WE HAD TWO OR THREE INTERESTING AFTERNOONS OF FLOOR SPEECHES OVER THE COURSE OF THE LAST SIX LEGISLATIVE DAYS AS IT RELATED TO THE ANXIETY OUR CITIZENS ARE FEELING, THE VOICES OF FOLKS WHO ARE FRUSTRATED WITH A SENSE OF POWERLESSNESS, AND I THINK WE ALL NEED TO BE CIVIC-MINDED AND WE ALL NEED TO BE MINDFUL THAT WE'RE PRACTICING AN ONGOING EXPERIMENT IN SELF-GOVERNING WE TREES ARE REPRESENTATIVE DEMOCRACY.

GOVERNMENTS RISE AND FALL.

THE WORDS WE USE MATTER.

THE TONE WE THAT WE USE MATTERS.

AND WE HAD A FEW SPEECHES ON THE FLOOR THIS WEEK THAT SPOKE, TRYING TO BE THE SORT OF MODEL FOR OUR YOUNG PEOPLE WHERE WE CAN ARGUE VIGOROUSLY, WE CAN ARGUE PASSIONATELY, WE CAN ARGUE WITH WORDS THAT ARE SOMETIMES CRITICAL AND SOMETIMES HARSH, BUT IF WE CAN MODEL THAT THROUGH WORDS INSTEAD OF THROUGH VIOLENCE, INSTEAD OF THROUGH DAMAGE, INSTEAD OF THROUGH THE TAKING OF LIFE, MAYBE WE CAN MODEL FOR THESE YOUNG PEOPLE WHO ARE OUR FUTURE THE SORT OF VOICES THAT THEY NEED TO HAVE AND CAN WE STRENGTHEN THOSE VOICES AND GIVE THOSE UNVOICES PLATFORMS?

I HOPE WE CAN.

CAN WE ALSO GIVE THEM THE DISCERNMENT TO LISTEN TO DISSENT AND TRY TO UNDERSTAND?

ONE OF THE PHRASES THAT E L. WE OFTEN HEAR SPOKEN IS SEEK TO UNDERSTAND BEFORE YOU SEEK TO BE UNDERSTOOD, AND IF WE COULD ALL TRY TO DO A BETTER JOB OF THAT, MAYBE WE'D BE BETTER MODELS.

>> WISE WORDS.

THANK YOU, SENATOR GIVENS.

YOU ARE WATCHING "KENTUCKY TONIGHT," AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE 2021 KENTUCKY GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

IT'S BEEN A BUSY PAST SIX DAYS.

A LOT HAS BEEN ACCOMPLISHED AND MORE WORK TO DO, SO WE THANK YOU FOR TUNING IN TONIGHT FOR THIS IMPORTANT DISCUSSION.

THIS QUESTION FROM DAVID SILEMAN, ZYLMAN FROM LOUISVILLE ASKS, CURIOUS WHAT SPECIFIC MOVES WOULD REPUBLICANS HAVE TAKEN TO FIGHT COVID HAD THEY BEEN GOVERNOR.

AND REPRESENTATIVE MEADE, I'LL ASK THAT OF YOU FIRST, SIR.

>> WELL, I THINK IT'S -- WHEN THIS ALL STARTED, WE WERE VERY SUPPORTIVE OF WHAT THE GOVERNOR DID.

WE ALL SAID THAT HE TOOK THE APPROPRIATE ACTIONS.

HE SHUT THINGS OPPORTUNITY FOR FIRST COUPLE OF WEEKS TO GET EVERYONE'S ATTENTION, TO TELL TEM WHAT THIS DISEASE WAS ABOUT AND WHAT IT DID, HOW RISKY IT WAS TO CATCH THIS VIRUS AND HE DID THE APPROPRIATE THINGS, BUT HE IMMEDIATELY NEEDED TO MOVE INTO REOPENING THIS ECONOMY.

AND DURING LAST SESSION I THINK IT GETS OVERLOOKED THAT WE OFFERED A PLAN ROW OPENING THE COMMITMENT ACTUALLY CAME THROUGH THE HOUSE.

WE VOTED ON THAT BILL AND WE MADE A LOUT STATEMENT WITH WHERE WE FELT THAT WE SHOULD GO IN PRESENTING OUR ECONOMY BUT ALSO PROTECTING THE SAFETY OF THE PEOPLE OF THIS STATE.

AND I THINK THAT THAT IS WHAT GETS LOFTY MANY TIMES OF THIS CONVERSATION BECAUSE YOU'RE ONLY HEARING ONE OF TWO SIDES.

THEY WANT TO MAKE YOU THINK THAT YOU ARE EITHER FOR OPENING UP THE ECONOMY OR YOU'RE FOR SAVING LIVES.

BUT I BELIEVE THAT THE MAJORITY OF KENTUCKIANS FALL RIGHT THERE IN THE MIDDLE OF THAT.

THEY BELIEVE THAT WE CAN OPEN UP THIS ECONOMY, KEEP IT RUNNING, WHILE SAFELY PROTECTING THE LIVES AND THE HEALTH OF THE FOLKS OF THIS STATE.

AND THAT'S WHERE MANY OF US FALL INTO, AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO WITH SOME OF THE LEGISLATION THAT WE'VE BEEN PASSING THIS WEEK.

>> AND TO GET TO THAT VERY POINT, REPRESENTATIVE MEADE, SENATE BILLS 1 AND HOUSE BILL 1, AND LET'S START WITH HOUSE BILL 1 WHICH ADDRESSES REOPENING THE KENTUCKY ECONOMY, PUBLIC AND PRIVATE SCHOOLS AND BUSINESSES, DAYCARES, ET CETERA, SO LONG AS THEY COMPLY WITH CDC OR EXECUTIVE BRANCH GOVERNORS' GUIDANCE, WHICHEVER IS LEAST RESTRICTIVE.

TODAY DURING THE GOVERNOR'S CORONAVIRUS PRESS BRIEFING HE READ A LETTER FROM THE CURRENT CDC DIRECTOR ROBERT REDFIELD, AND IT SAID THAT THE CDC GUIDANCE SHOULD BE INTERPRETED AS REGULATION RATHER THAN MEANT AS RECOMMENDATIONS.

IT SHOULD BE USED IN CONSIDERATION FOR SPECIFICS STATE AND/OR LOCAL REGULATIONS, BUT THIS GUIDANCE IS MEANT TO BE FLEXIBLE AND ADAPTABLE.

IT'S NOT MEANT TO BE PRESCRIPTIVE OR INTERPRETED ARSE STANDARDS THAT CAN BE REGULATED.

DOES THAT CHANGE YOUR MIND AT ALL ABOUT WHAT IS HEADING TO THE GOVERNOR'S DESK WHEN IT COMES TO CHANGING HIS EMERGENCY POWER AUTHORITY?

>> NO, BECAUSE EXACTLY WHAT YOU JUST READ IT.

READS THAT IT CDC GUIDELINES OR EXECUTIVE BRANCH DIRECTIVES, WHICHEVER IS THE LEAST RESTRICTIVE.

AND AS THE GOVERNOR MENTIONED LAST WEEK, THE CDC CAN BE MORE RESTRICTIVE AT TIMES.

WHAT WE MEAN BY THAT IS HE CANNOT GO ANY MORE RESTRICTIVE THAN THE CDC.

AN EXAMPLE OF THAT IS HERE JUST A COUPLE MONTHS AGO, THE CDC RECOMMENDED THAT SCHOOLS STAY OPEN AND THAT IS ONE OF THE SAFEST PLACES FOR CHILDREN TWO YET WE HAD OUR SCHOOLS SHUT DOWN.

IN THAT INSTANCE YOU WOULD GO BY THE CDC GUIDELINES AND WE COULD HAVE THOSE SCHOOLS OPEN.

NO, IT DOESN'T CHANGE MY MIND POINT I THINK THAT BILL IS DRAFTED, WHEN IT SAYS THE CDC OR THE GOVERNOR -- NOT THE GOVERNOR'S BUT THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH DIRECTIVES, THE LEAST RESTRICTIVE THOSE TWO, FOR THOSE BUSINESSES, FOR THOSE SCHOOLS TO CHOOSE BETWEEN I THINK THAT THAT IS A GOOD PIECE OF LEGISLATION AS WE SEND IT ON TO THE GOVERNOR.

>> WITH A NEW COMMISSIONER AND POSSIBLY A NEW CDC DIRECTOR, THEY COULD BE PRETTY STRINGENT, SENATOR THOMAS, MORE SO THAN MAYBE WHAT THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH AND HAVE BEEN IT SAYS WHICHEVER IS LEAST RESTRICTIVE.

>> RENEE, I SAT ON THE SENATE FLOOR ON SATURDAY, AND I'M GOING TO REPEAT THIS ON YOUR SHOW TONIGHT.

I THINK IT IS VERY BAD POLICY FOR THE PEOPLE OF KENTUCKY WHEN YOU ADVOCATE GOVERNING TO AN ENTITY THAT'S NOT REFLECT STATE.

ABDICATE -- THAT HAS NO ELECTED OFFICIALS IN THE STATE, THAT REALLY IS JUST A UNELECTED -- BODY OF UNELECTED OFFICIALS SOMEWHERE OUTSIDE KENTUCKY.

KENTUCKIANS SHOULD GOVERN WHAT WE DO IN THIS STATE, NOT SOME ARTIFICIAL THAT THE MAT ENTITY THAT'S LOCATED SOMEWHERE ELSE.

-- THAT THE INAT MAT ENTITY.

IT GOES DEEPER THAN THAT, AND I KNOW SENATOR GIVENS IS GOING TO COMMENT ON THIS AND YOU SHOULD GO TO HIM NEXT.

THE WAY THE LANGUAGE IS WRITTEN, IT SAYS, WE MUST FOLLOW EITHER WHAT THE CDC PROPOSES, GUIDELINES THAT THE CDC PROPOSES OR WHAT THE GOVERNOR PROPOSES, WHICHEVER IS THE LEAST RESTRICTIVE.

MY POINT IS WHAT IF KENTUCKY DOESN'T IMPOSE ANY GUIDELINES OR SAYS NOTHING ABOUT IT.

IF THAT'S THE CASE, THEN THE LEAST RESTRICTIVE MEASURE IS WHAT KENTUCKY HAS DONE, WHICH IS NOTHING.

OKAY?

WHICH MEANS THAT BUSINESSES, CHURCHES, SCHOOLS CAN DO WHATEVER THEY WANT TO DO, WHICH I THINK, RENEE, THAT LEADS US TO THE WILD, WILD WEST WHERE PEOPLE CAN GO AND DO ANYTHING THEY WANT IN A TIME OF A PANDEMICS WHERE WE'VE GOT TO HAVE SOME KIND OF CONTROL.

>> SENATOR GIVENS, TO THAT BE POINT, AND THE GOVERNOR, GOVERNOR ANDY BESHEAR, OFTEN INVOCATION REFERENCE TO SOUTH DAKOTA, AND EVEN TO TENNESSEE WHO HAS POSITIVITY RATES THAT ARE WELL ABOVE 15%, THAT HE CONTENDS THE MITIGATION STRATEGIES HAVE WORKED AND HAVE SAVED LIVES.

WOULD THIS LEGISLATION POSSIBLY LEAD TO A WILD, WILD WEST SCENARIO THAT SENATOR THOMAS DESCRIBED?

>> RENEE, I CERTAINLY DID NOT FEEL LIKE IT'S GOING TO LEAD TO ANY SORT OF A WILD, WILD WEST CON FLAGGATION OF ACTIVITIES, AND I THINK WE NEED TO BE MINDFUL OF THE FACT THAT THERE IS A LOT OF FRUSTRATION.

WE'VE HEARD LOTS OF FRUSTRATIONS AS LEGISLATORS.

WE SPOKE TO THE IMPEACHMENT CONVERSATION A MOMENT AGO.

THERE'S A PACKAGE OF LEGISLATION THAT YOU HAVE SEEN MOVE THROUGH THE PROCESS THIS FIRST WEEK, THE FIRST FIVE DAYS, NOW THE SIXTH LEGISLATIVE DAY, AND THOSE RELATE TO THIS LANGUAGE IN HOUSE BILL 1 THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SPECIFICALLY, TARGETING EXECUTIVE ORDERS THAT WE FEEL MAY HAVE BEEN MAY HAVE GONE TOO FAR IN STRIKING THE BALANCE.

WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE GOVERNOR, I THINK REPRESENTATIVE MEADE DID A WONDERFUL JOB SPEAKING TO THE FACT THAT EARLY ON WE WERE ALL VERY SUPPORTIVE.

WE GAVE THE GOVERNOR LOTS OF LATITUDE.

WE WERE ABOUT 45 DAYS IN SESSION, 45 DAYS, ABOUT A MONTH AND A HALF IN SESSION AT WHICH THE GOVERNOR WAS GIVEN WIDE BERTH TO NAVIGATE THESE WATERS.

WE HAD A LOT OF FRUSTRATION, THOUGH, OVER THE COURSE OF THE SUMMER AND ESPECIALLY INTO THE FALL AND WINTER IT'S A SEEMS THAT THE BALANCE TIPPED IN WAYS THAT DAMAGED OUR ECONOMY, IT DAMAGED THE EMOTIONAL WELL-BEING OF LOTS OF OUR CITIZENS, AND IT CERTAINLY HAD A RIPPLE EFFECT ACROSS THE COMMONWEALTH.

SO THE PACKAGES OF LEGISLATION THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, HOUSE BILL 1, THE WORK THAT WE'VE DONE IN SENATE BILL 1 AND SENATE BILL 2, AND ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL PIECES OF LEGISLATION IS ONE I HOPE WE GET THE CHANCE TO SPEAK TO, WHICH IS THE SPEAKER'S CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT GIVING US THE ABILITY TO COME BACK INTO SESSION BECAUSE WHEN WE TALKING ABOUT THE LEGISLATION AND THE FRUSTRATION, IT IS THAT CITIZENS' ADVISORIES NOT BEING HEARD, IT IS SOMETHING THAT PRESIDENT STIVERS AND THE SPEAKER HAVE BOTH SPOKEN TO IN THAT WE, AS THE VOICE OF THE PEOPLE, HAVE NOT BEEN ENGAGED WITH THE GOVERNOR IN THESE CONVERSATIONS.

THE MORE VOICES WE CAN HAVE IN THE ROOM, THE MORE OPINIONS WE CAN HAVE HEARD, THE MORE BUY-IN WE CAN HAVE TO DECISIONS, AND THE BETTER COLLECTIVE DECISION WE CAN ARRIVE AT.

AND SO I WOULD BE HOPEFUL THAT SOMETHING LIKE THIS CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT, WHICH WOULD DO AWAY WITH A LOT OF THE PRESSURE THAT WE FEEL TO PASS THIS LEGISLATION, IS SOMETHING THAT WE CAN GET THE CITIZENS TO TAKE A LOOK AT AS WELL.

>> SO THAT MEASURE WOULD ALLOW -- IT'S A PROPOSED CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT, WOULD PRETTY MUCH STRIKE THE DEADLINE DATES OR THE TERMINATION DATES OF THE SESSION, MARCH 30th AND ODD-NUMBERED YEARS, APRIL 15th AND EVEN NUMBERED YEARS AND GIVE YOU THE LATITUDE TO ADD TEN ADDITIONAL DAYS.

REPRESENTATIVE HATTON, DO YOU HAVE ANY CONCERN ABOUT THAT?

AND ONE THING DO I BELIEVE THAT WAS MORGAN McGARVEY WHO SAID ON THIS VERY PROGRAM LAST MONDAY NIGHT WAS THAT HE WAS AFRAID IT WOULD NO LONGER BE A CITIZENS LEGISLATURE, THAT THERE WOULD ONLY BE A CERTAIN TYPE OF PERSON WITH A CERTAIN PROFESSION AND A CERTAIN FINANCIAL LATITUDE THAT WOULD BE ABLE TO RUN AND HOLD A SEAT IN THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY BECAUSE YOU'D PRETTY MUCH HAVE AN OPEN-ENDED SCHEDULE.

>> WELL, THERE'S EVER THERE EXTENSIVELY EVER SEVERAL THINGS THAT BOTHER ME ABOUT THIS BILL.

ONE THING IS THAT IT IS CLEARLY NOT CONSTITUTIONAL.

IT'S AN OVERPREACH IT'S SOMETHING THAT IS SPECIFICALLY SET ASIDE TO THE GOVERNOR TO CALLS INTO SPECIAL SESSION.

AND IF WE WERE ABLE TO CALL OURSELVES INTO SPECIAL SESSION, IT'S BASICALLY A BACK DOOR PAY RAISE FOR LEGISLATORS, AND NO ONE WOULD COME STRAIGHT OUT AND SAY, I'M GOING TO PROPOSE A BIG PAY RAISE FOR LEGISLATORS, BUT I MEAN, THAT'S WHAT THIS DOES, IS THAT -- I MEAN, IT COSTS $65,000 A DAY FOR A SESSION, AND I MEAN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PER DIEM FOR LEGISLATORS.

IT'S INAPPROPRIATE FOR US TO BE THE ONES TO CALL OURSELVES INTO SESSION BECAUSE WE STAND TO FINANCIALLY GAIN FROM THAT, AND, YOU KNOW, THE TEN EXTRA DAYS JUST -- IT WOULD BE A BACK DOOR PAYDAY FOR LEGISLATORS.

>> SO REPRESENTATIVE MEADE, CAN YOU RESPOND TO THAT CRITICISM ABOUT IT BEING A PAYDAY FOR LEGISLATOR WHEN IT DOES COST $65,000 TO $70,000 A DAY TO RUN ONE DAY IN A SESSION.

>> I CAN.

IT'S ABSOLUTELY NOT CALLING OURSELVES INTO SPECIAL SESSION.

AS YOU DESCRIBED THE BILL PRETTY ACCURATELY THERE, RENEE, AS YOU STARTED, WE'RE REMOVING THE DEADLINE, THE DROP DEADLINES OF HAVING TO BE OUT ON MARCH 30th IN THE SHORT YEARS CAR.

15th IN THE LONG YEARS IT.

JUST SAYS AS WE GO THROUGH THIS PROCESS, AND YOU'VE SEEN THIS PROCESS PLAY OUT, RENEE.

AS WE'RE DOING THINGS, WORKING ON BILLS, WORKING ON LEGISLATION, THERE WILL BE DAUS WHERE THERE'S NOT MUCH BLOWING GOING ON ON THE FLOOR.

WE'RE JUST GOING THROUGH PROCEDURAL MATTERS AT THAT TIME.

THOSE ARE DAYS THAT WE COULD SAVE AND WE WOULDN'T HAVE TO COME IN AND WASTE THAT LEGISLATIVE DAY, SO WE COULD BANK THOSE DAYS AND THEN, AS WE WENT THROUGH THE YEAR, WHEN WE FELT THAT WE COULD COME IN AND MAKE BETTER DECISIONS OR WE WERE PREPARED TO MAKE THOSE DECISIONS, THEN WE COULD CALL OURSELVES BACK IN AND ACT ON THOSE MATTERS.

BUT WE'RE NOT INCREASING THE NUMBER OF DAYS EXCEPT FOR THE TEN, AND WHAT THAT MEANS IS IF WE SAVE A DAY AND IT'S BANKS AND WE COME BACK IN AND WE FEEL THERE IS SOMETHING NECESSARY FOR TO US TAKE UP ON A 3/5 VOTE OF BOTH CHAMBERS, WE CAN EXTEND THAT SESSION BY TEN DAYS, AND, OF COURSE, YOU HAVE SEEN EVEN IN THE SAME PARTY HOW DIFFICULT IT IS TO GET A 3/5 VOTE SO IT'S GOING TO HAVE TO BE SOMETHING THAT IS REALLY IMPORTANT FOR US TO BE ABLE TO TAKE UP BEFORE THAT'S EXTENDED.

>> WHEN I THINK REPRESENTATIVE MEADE, YOU JUST HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD THERE.

I THINK MAYBE SOME PEOPLE ARE CONCERNED, COULD IT JUST BE ANYTHING.

BUT YOU'RE SAYING IT WOULD BE AN ISSUE OF SIGNIFICANT MAGNITUDE THAT WOULD CAUSE TO YOU TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THAT TEN-DAY ADDITION.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

LIKE I SAID, IT REQUIRES A 3/NEVADA VOTE OF BOTH THE HOUSE AND THE -- 3/5 VOTE OF BOTH THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE.

>> SENATOR THOMAS, YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT THIS LEGISLATION.

AND IT WOULD GIVE SOME LATITUDE AS REPRESENTATIVE MEADE NOTED.

THERE ARE SOME DAYS WHEN THERE'S NOT AS MUCH ACTIVITY AND YOU COULD DEFINITELY USE THOSE TOWARD THE END AB PARTICULARLY IN A BUDGET NEGOTIATION YEAR WHEN THAT TIME IS NEEDED.

>> I'M GOING TO ASK YOU A QUESTION ON TWO POINTS YOU MADE THAT I DO WANT TO COMMENT ON.

WHEN SENATOR GIVENS SAYS THAT HE WANTS THE PEOPLE'S VOICES TO BE LEADER HEARD, THE PEOPLE'S VOICES HAVE BEEN HEARD THIS YEAR, RENEE.

LET'S NOT FORGET THAT OUR GOVERNOR IS ELECTED BY THE PEOPLE OF KENTUCKY.

AND SO WHEN HE ACTS, HE'S ACCOUNTABLE TO THE PEOPLE'S VOICES.

AND THEN TO EXTEND THAT POINT, TO WHAT YOU SAID EARLIER, AS I'VE SAID MANY TIMES, AND I POINT THIS OUT AGAIN THIS WEEK, THIS GOVERNOR HAS DONE AN EXTRAORDINARY JOB, AND I'M NOT JUST SAYING THAT TO BE PARTISAN.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT HOW HE'S DONE IN COMPARISON GEOGRAPHICALLY -- I'M NOT COMPARING US TO MAINE, I'M NOT COMPARING TO OREGON.

I'M COMPARING TO STATES AROUND US.

RENEE, WE HAVE THE FOURTH LOWEST NUMBER OF CASES, AND ALL OF THOSE STATES THAT HAVE A LESS NUMBER OF CASES THAN US HAVE POPULATIONS ANYWHERE FROM 1 MILLION TO 2 MILLION LESS THAN US.

LEN WE HAVE THE THIRD LOWEST NUMBER OF DEATHS, AND THOSE STATES HAVE FEWER NUMBER OF DEATHS, AGAIN IN POPULATIONS OF 1 MILLION TO 2.5 MILLION LESS THAN US.

HE HAS DONE AN EXTRAORDINARY JOB.

SO WE'VE GOT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT FACTUALLY.

NOW TO YOUR POINT.

RENEE, I'M IN FAVOR OF EXTENDING OUR NUMBER OF DAYS.

I THINK WE HAVE TO LOOK AT WHERE WE ARE IN THIS MODERN 21st CENTURY HIGHLY TECHNOLOGICAL ECONOMY.

WE NEED TO HAVE A WINTER SESSION AND A SUMMER SESSION.

I'VE SAID THAT TO SENATOR GIVENS ALREADY.

OUR WORK DOESN'T STOP, SHOULD NOT JUST STOP IN APRIL OR MARCH.

WE NEED TO LOOK AT WHAT IS GOING ON IN THE SUMMER, IN THE FALL, AND BE ABLE TO HAVE ADDITIONAL DAYS.

SO I AM IN FAVOR OF AMENDING THE CONSTITUTION.

AGAIN, I'VE SHARED THIS WITH MY REPUBLICAN COLLEAGUES.

AND LOOKING AT HOW WE CAN BE ABLE TO COME BACK RESPONSIBLY AND CONTINUE TO DO THE PEOPLE'S WORK.

WHAT I AM AFRAID OF, AND I TOTALLY AGREE WITH REPRESENTATIVE HATTON HERE, IS YOU CAN HAVE A 3/5 VOTE, RENEE, JUST TO COME BACK TO DEAL WITH ISSUES, BUT THEN YOU'VE STILL GOT TO PASS LEGISLATION WHEN YOU GET BACK.

AND SO NOW PEOPLE SAY, YEAH, I WANT TO COME BACK.

AND THEN WE SQUABBLE FOR HOW LONG?

A WEEK, TWO WEEKS, THREE WEEKS?

AND NOT GET ANYTHING DONE?

THAT'S JUST NOT GOOD GOVERNANCE, RENEE, AND OHIO SO THAT'S WHY I'M VERY -- AND SO THAT'S WHY I'M VERY LEERY OF US KOUVARIS IN SESSION.

>> I GUESS THERE'S SOME ASSUMPTION THAT YOU WOULD DO AS HAS BEEN DONE BY SPECIAL SESSIONS BY THE GOVERNOR, THAT THERE'S BEEN A NEGOTIATED BILL BEFORE YOU ARRIVE AND CONVENE AT 12:00 NOON ON WHATEVER SAID DAY YOU ARE.

>> ABSOLUTELY RIGHT, AND THAT'S HOW WE SHOULD GOVERN.

NOW, AGAIN, HAVING ADDITIONAL DAYS, I'M ALL FOR THAT BECAUSE, RENEE, THE REALITY IS THAT WE REALLY AREN'T PART-TIME LEGISLATORS.

I MEAN -- >> GUTS THIS MOVE YOU INTO BEING A FULL-TIME VOTING IN THE.

>> IT PROBABLY GETS US CLOSER TO DOING THAT.

AGAIN -- FULL-TIME LEGISLATOR.

>> ADVERTISEMENTS HAVE VANG.

EVENTS OCCUR OUTSIDE OF THE MONTHS OF JANUARY, MARCH AND APRIL THAT NEED OUR ATTENTION AND WE CAN DEAL WITH THAT IF WE HAVE A ADDITIONAL SITUATION SHORTER SESSION OBVIOUSLY, BUT AN ADDITIONAL SESSION SOME TIME LATER IN THE YEAR.

>> SO THIS BILL, THIS -- I WANT TO TALK ABOUT HOUSE BILL 3 SINCE -- I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S ANY FURTHER COMMENT IN FRANKFORT ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR PROPOSED CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT.

IF ANYTHING HAD ANYTHING, I'LL GIVE YOU AN OPPORTUNITY BEFORE I MOVE ON.

IF NOT -- >> RENEE, I WOULD SAY ONE THING ABOUT IT.

I APOLOGIZE.

BUT I DON'T GREE THAT THIS WOULD MAKE US A FULL-TIME LEGISLATURE BECAUSE IF YOU'RE IN A POSITION LIKE I AM -- I HAVE SEVERAL BUSINESSES AND I HAVE A FULL-TIME JOB INDEPENDENTLY FROM THOSE BUSINESSES -- AND FOR ME TO TAKE OFF THREE TO THREE AND A HALF MONTHS OF THE YEAR, IT'S STRAIN SOME YEARS, AND SO TO BE ABLE TO POSSIBLY SPREAD THIS OUT THROUGHOUT THE YEAR, I THINK WOULD BE EVEN MORE BENEFICIAL FOR THOSE PART-TIME LEGISLATORS AND WOULD BE EVEN MORE ATTRACTIVE TO GETTING QUALITY PEOPLE INTO THESE POSITIONS.

>> THAT'S AN INTERESTING POSITION.

>> THIS IS SENATOR GIVENS.

I WOULD LIKE TO WEIGH IN AS WELL?

N. THAT 39 OTHER STATES HAVE SOME FORM OF BEING ABLE TO COME IN OVER THE COURSE OF THE YEAR, DEAL WITH ISSUES THAT COME UP AT THAT POINT IN TIME, AND THEN ADJOURN UNTIL A DATE CERTAIN OR UNTIL THE END OF THE YEAR.

THERE'S A BIPARTISAN GROUP OF LEGISLATORS NOW WORKING ON A COMMITTEE SUB HERE ON THE SENATE SIDE FOR THIS LEGISLATION.

WE'RE INVOLVING THE SPEAKER IN ALL THOSE CONVERSATIONS.

MINORITY LEADERSHIP IS WEIGHING IN AS WELL.

AND SO IT'S A -- IT'S A VERY DELIBERATIVE, THOUGHTFUL APPROACH TO HOW DO WE CREATE AND MAINTAIN A CITIZEN LEGISLATURE THAT STILL HAS POWER TO BE ABLE TO BE THAT VOICE OF THE PEOPLE WHEN SOMETHING ARISES THAT NO ONE HAS FORESEEN, AND STRIKING THAT BALANCE IS SOMETHING WE'RE WORKING HARD TO DO AND I THINK YOU'LL SEE SOME GOOD LEGISLATION THAT WILL STILL PRESCRIBE THAT WE HAVE THAT VAST MAJORITY OF THE SORT OF SESSIONS WE HAVE NOW WITH SOME DAYS THAT WE CAN CARRY FORWARD LATER IN THE YEAR SHOULD THE NEED ARISE.

>> AND I THINK, SENATOR GIVENS AND CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG -- I COULD BE MIXING UP MY COMMITTEES -- BUT DID YOU PRESENT A SUB COMMUTE COMMITTEE WHO THAT BILL THAT WAS NOT ACTED ON?

IS THAT A STARTING PLACE FOR A NEGOTIATED COMPROMISE ON THIS?

>> IT IS ONE OF THE STARTING PLACES WITH THE SPEAKER IN THE ROOM AND HIS WORK ON HIS ORIGINAL BILL.

THAT'S STATERRING PLACE.

MY COMMITTEE SUB IS ANOTHER STARTING PLACE.

AND WE'RE LARGELY WORKING AROUND THE QUESTION AND SOME FASCINATING LEGISLATIVE SORT OF PRINCIPLES, DO BILLS ROLL OVER FROM ONE PART OF THE SESSION TO ANOTHER OR EVEN FROM AN ODD-NUMBERED YEAR TO AN EVEN-NUMBERED YEAR SO WE DON'T HAVE THE HAVE HAVE TOOT ALL THE REDRAFTING THAT WE CURRENTLY DO?

HOW DO WE FIND MECHANISMS TO MAKE SURE ALL THE VOICES ARE HEARD?

HOW DO WE FIND THE ABILITY FOR THE LEGISLATURE TO BE CALLED BACK BUT NOT IN A FRIVOLOUS K FASHION AND LIKELY FOR NO MORE THAN UP TO 12 DAYS OUTSIDE OF THAT NORMAL SORT OF CALENDAR.

>> AND NONE OF THAT WOULD PRECLUDE THE GOVERNOR WERE BEING ABLE TO CALL TELL GENERAL ASSEMBLY INTO SPECIAL SESSION, CORRECT?

>> CORRECT, ABSOLUTELY CORRECT BECAUSE THE GOVERNOR NEEDS TO MAINTAIN THAT ABILITY FOR EXTRAORDINARY CIRCUMSTANCES TO CALL THE LEGISLATURE BACK INTO SESSION SOLELY TO DEAL WITH WHATEVER HE OR SHE PRESCRIBED THAT WE DEAL WITH IN THAT SPECIAL SESSION CALL.

>> OKAY.

VERY GOOD.

WE'LL CLOSE THAT DISCUSSION OUT AND TALK ABOUT HOUSE BILL 3 THAT I DO BELIEVE IS GOING TO BE IN A SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE TOMORROW AT NOON, AND THIS IS INVOLVING CLAIMS INVOLVING THE STATE, A CONSTITUTIONAL QUOR AN ADMINISTRATIVE REGULATION THAT'S FILED MOSTLY IN FRANKLIN CIRCUIT COURT, AND WE HEARD CHIEF JUSTICE JOHN MINTON ON SATURDAY MORNING, I BELIEVE IT WAS, TESTIFY AGAINST THIS MEASURE AND CALLING IT UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

I'M CURIOUS ABOUT YOUR THOUGHTS, SENATOR GIVENS, I'LL STICK, YOU ON THIS MEASURE THAT WOULD CREATE THREE NEW DISTRICTS BASED ON POPULATION AND GEOGRAPHY.

WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS TO DEAL WITH THESE KIND OF CIVIL ACTIONS INVOLVING THE STATE AND THE VENUE FOR WHICH THEY SHOULD BE ADJUDICATED?

>> WELL, WE'VE LONG HAD SOME FRUSTRATION IN THE LEGISLATIVE BODY ABOUT THE COURT OF VENUE BEING FRANKLIN CIRCUIT AND POTENTIALLY THAT NOT BEING REPRESENTATIVE OF THE VOICES OF THE ENTIRE COMMONWEALTH, BUT I MUST SAY I HAVE GREAT RESPECT FOR THE CHIEF, CHIEF JUSTICE MINTON AND HIS TESTIMONY WAS EXCITE QUITE EXCELLING AND HIS PASSION FOR THE WORK HE DOES AND FOR HIS COMMITMENT TO TRY AND SEE US DO GOOD LAW, AND SO IN LIGHT OF THAT, I THINK YOU'RE GOING TO SEE A DIFFERENT VERSION LATERS THIS WEEK.

I DON'T KNOW IF IT WILL BE LATER THIS WEEK OR WHEN WE COME BACK IN FEBRUARY.

BUT YOU'LL SEE A DIFFERENT APPROACH TAKEN THAT TRIES AGAIN TO FIND WAY FORWARD WITHOUT VIOLATING AND TELLING AN EQUAL, COEQUAL BRANCH GOVERNMENT WHAT THEY MUST DO.

>> EVEN THOUGH I THINK THE POINT WAS MADE BY A JUDICIARY CHAIRMAN SENATOR WHITNEY WESTERFIELD, SENATOR GIVENS, THAT OFTEN THE JUDICIARY DOES TELL THE LEGISLATURE WHAT TO DO, RIGHT?

SO I THINK THAT POINT WAS MADE.

>> I DON'T KNOW THAT THEY SO OFTEN TELL US WHAT TO DO AS THEY TELL US YOU JUST CAN'T DO IT THAT WAY.

>> THAT WAY.

OKAY.

GOOD CLARITY WHO THAT.

SO I WANT TO GO TO THE TWO LAWYERS WHO ARE SITTING IN LENGTH WITH ME, REPRESENTATIVE HATTON.

I'LL GO TO YOU FIRST.

YOU VOTED ON THIS BILL.

>> RENEE, THERE ARE A NUMBER OF PROBLEMS WITH THIS BILL, AND I'M REALLY GLAD TO HEAR SENATOR GIVENS TALK ABOUT HOW A COMPROMISE IS GOING TO BE MADE IN LIGHT OF THE WISDOM THAT CHIEF ADJUST MINTON SHARED WITH US.

THE -- JUSTICE CHIEF JUSTICE MINTON.

THERE ARE CONSTITUTIONAL ISSUES AS.

YOU DIDN'T HAVE THAT OPINION YOURSELF, AS FAR AS I KNOW.

BUT WE CAN'T TELL ANOTHER BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT WHAT THEY CAN DO AND WHAT THEY SHALL DO, AND SO IN THAT WAY IT'S CONSTITUTIONAL.

BUT THERE'S BEEN IS OUR GRAPES FOR YEARS OVER RULINGS FROM THE -- SOUR GRAPES FOR YEARS OVER RULINGS FROM THE FRANKLIN CIRCUIT COURT, AND EVEN WHEN DEMOCRATS WERE IN CHARGE YEARS AGO, SOMETIMES WE WOULD TALK ABOUT DOING THE SAME THING BEFORE I GOT HERE BECAUSE WE'D BE UPSET WITH THESE RULINGS, BUT THE FACT IS WHEN WE, AS AN ATTORNEY, ANY TIME YOU GET IR CASE REASSIGNED TO ANOTHER JUDGE, IT IS A DELAY TO TRY AND GET YOUR -- THE NEW JUDGE APPOINTED AND THEN TO HAVE THE CALENDAR OF THE NEW JUDGE AND ALL OF THE ATTORNEYS WORK OUT TOGETHER, AND IMAGINE DOING THAT WITH THREE JUDGES FROM ACROSS THE STATE.

IT'S GOING TO BE A VERY UNNECESSARY DELAY TO HAVE THIS THREE-JUDGE SUPER CIRCUIT.

AND I DON'T KNOW SPOKE WITH THE CIRCUIT JUDGES ASSOCIATION.

I DON'T THINK THEY'LL WELCOME THIS.

AND I THINK THAT WHEN PEOPLE ELECT A FRANKLIN CIRCUIT JUDGE, THEY KNOW THAT THIS IS THE SORT OF EXPERTISE THAT'S GOING TO BE EXPECTED FROM THEM, AND FRANKLIN CIRCUIT IS VERY RARELY OVERTURNED.

THOSE JUDGES HAVE A GREAT DEAL OF EXPERTISE.

>> SENATOR THOMAS.

>> JUST BRIEFLY, RENEE, WHAT THIS BILL DOES IS IT PICKS THE JUDGES TO HEAR CASES INVOLVING ISSUES OF STATUTE, CONSTITUTION CONSTITUTIONALITY, ADMINISTRATIVE REGULATIONS.

THAT IS TOTALLY WITHIN THE PURVIEW OF THE JUDICIARY AND CHIEF EXECUTIVE JUSTICE MINTON IS RIGHT.

IT.

THERE'S NO WAY THIS CAN BE UPHELD AS BEING CONSTITUTIONAL.

IT'S OUTSIDE THE 11:00 PURVIEW.

AND SO FOR THAT REASON I THINK THE APPROACH THAT IS PRESENTLY TAKEN IS SERIOUSLY FLAWED.

>> ANY OTHER COMMENT ON THAT BEFORE WE MOVE TO ANOTHER BILL THAT THE GOVERNOR COMMENTED ON TODAY, AND THAT WAS HOUSE BILL 5 INVOLVING THE REORGANIZATION OF BOARDS, COMMISSIONS, CABINETS.

HE SAID, YOU KNOW, PREVENTING HIM FROM REORGANIZING HIS OWN CABINET WHEN THE LEGISLATURE ISN'T IN SESSION WITH IS A FORM OF MICROMANAGEMENT THAT WOULD PREVENT HIM FROM EXECUTING THE LAWS, SENATOR GIVENS, THAT THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY PASSES AND THEN CAN LEAD TO MORE SPECIAL SESSIONS.

YOUR REACTION TO THE GOVERNOR'S REACTION, SIR.

>> I'M GOING TO ECHO WHAT MY COLLEAGUE AND FRIEND ROBERT STIVERS SAYS ON THIS ISSUE.

THE GOVERNOR HAS SAID, AND HE TOLD US THIS IN THE MIDST OF THE COVID EPIDEMIC, THE COVID EPIDEMIC AS WE WERE FIRST ENCOUNTERING IT LAST SESSION, WE WANTED TO DO SOME LEGISLATION RESTRICTING HIS ABILITY TO REORGANIZE SOME BOARDS AT THAT POINT IN TIME.

AND HE SAID, DON'T DO THAT.

HE SAID, YOU DON'T CHANGE -- HIS WORDS TO US, HIS WORDS TO THE LEGISLATIVE BODY AND TO THE MEDIA WAS, YOU CONTINUES TO NEED DON'T STRAIN ME.

I'M NOT GOING TO BE CHANGING LEADERSHIP IN TIMES OF CHAOS AND ANXIETY.

AND SO AS SOON AS WE LEFT FRANKFORT, WE SAW BOARDS REORGANIZED.

WE SAW NEW APPOINTMENTS.

WE SAW FOLKS THAT WERE TALENTED, QUALITY INDIVIDUALS LIKE WARN BEADLE THAT WE TALKED A LOT ABOUT AS IT RELATES TO THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE ON POLICY, BE FORCED OUT AND PEOPLE PUT IN THAT HAD LITTLE OR NO EXPERIENCE IN THAT SPACE.

WE CERTAINLY HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO DO WHAT WE'RE ATTEMPTING TO DO AS RELATES TO STABILIZING THESE BOARDS, NOT PERMITTING TURMOIL, ENHANCING THAT TRANSITION PERIODS FROM ONE GOVERNOR THE TO NEXT AND TRYING TO STABILIZE GOVERNMENT.

IT'S A SHAME AND WE SHOULD NOT HAVE TO BE DOING THIS.

BUT WE HAVE SEEN THIS GOVERNOR AND OTHER GOVERNORS ABUSE THESE SORTS OF POWERS TO TURN BOARDS UPSIDE DOWN, BRING IN DIFFERENT MINDS THAT DO NOT REPRESENT CONTINUITY AND STABILITY.

AND SO THAT'S THE GENESIS FOR THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION, IN MY OPINION.

>> SENATOR THOMAS, THAT'S NOT JUST EXCLUSIVE PERHAPS TO THIS ADMINISTRATION BUT THAT PRACTICE CERTAINLY HAS BEEN WITH OTHER ADMINISTRATIONS AS WELL, RIGHT?

>> WELL, NO, RENEE, IT HAS NOT BECAUSE WHEN OTHER GOVERNORS PRIOR TO GOVERNOR BESHEAR WANTED TO COME IN AND MAKE CHANGES, I WANT TO SAY, GOVERNOR BEVIN THE LOUISVILLE BOARD AT A TIME WHERE THERE WERE ISSUES ABOUT ACCREDITATION ARE BEING CHALLENGED.

WE AGREE WITH THAT.

I MEAN, WE CERTAINLY DIDN'T WANT TO DO ANYTHING THAT WAS GOING TO JEOPARDIZE THE ACCREDITATION OF THE UNIVERSITY OF LOUISVILLE, AND SO WE ALLOWED GOVERNOR BEVIN TO DO WHAT HE HAD TO DO TO MAINTAIN THE ACCREDITATION OF THAT IMPORTANT AND VALUABLE UNIVERSITY.

RENEE, WE SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO TELL THE GOVERNOR HOW HE WANTS TO STRUCTURE BOARDS OR COMMISSIONS OR HOW HE WANTS TO REARRANGE HIS FURNITURE OR HOW HE WANTS TO DECIDE WHO HE WANTS TO PUT IN POSITIONS HE HAS.

THE GOVERNOR IS GIVEN A LOT OF BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS THAT HE HAS TO MANAGE.

HE SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO THAT WITH, AGAIN WITHOUT OUR OVERSIGHT.

THE THING WE HAVE SEEN HERE TONIGHT, RENEE, IS THAT WE'RE TRYING TO TELL THE JUDICIARY, YOU KNOW, HOW TO HANDLE THEIR CASES.

WE'RE TRYING TO TELL THE GOVERNOR HOW LONG HE CAN ACT, 30 DAYS AND THAT'S IT.

RENEE, THAT'S -- WE NEED TO KEEP A CHECK ON OURSELVES SOMETIMES WITH REGARD TO THE SEPARATION OF POWERS DOCTRINE, AND I THINK THIS IS ANOTHER EXAMPLE, RENEE, OF WHERE IN TIMES OF CRISIS, IN TIMES OF NEED, WE'VE GOT TO GET HAVE GIVE FLEXIBILITY TO GOVERNMENT, TO THE GOVERNOR AND OUR GOVERNMENT.

THE GOVERNOR AGAIN, LET ME REMIND YOU, IS ELECTED BY THE PEOPLE AND IF THEY DON'T LIKE WHAT HE'S DOING, THEN FOUR YEARS LATER THEY CAN REMOVE HIM.

>> I WOULD AGREE, RENEE, THAT THERE'S AN OVERALL TONE OF JUST OVERREACH AND EXPANDING POWER BY THIS LEGISLATURE THIS YEAR, AND I GUESS IT'S JUST BECAUSE THIS SUPER DUPER MINORITY, AS WE'LL CALL THEM.

>> MAJORITY.

>> SORRY.

SUPER, DUPER MAJORITY BECAUSE THEY CAN.

>> WELL, LEGISLATIVE INDEPENDENCE, REPRESENTATIVE MEADE, HAS ALWAYS BEEN A TENANT THAT I KNOW SPEAKER OSBORNE UPHOLDS, AND I KNOW SENATE PRESIDENT ROBERT STIVERS APPRECIATES LEGISLATIVE INDEPENDENCE.

>> ABSOLUTELY, RENEE, AND IT'S MORE ABOUT EFFICIENCY IN GOVERNMENT.

SENATOR THOMAS JUST NOW DISCUSSED THE UNIVERSITY OF YOU LOUISVILLE REORGANIZER.

WE ACTUALLY HAD RECEIVED LETTERS, AS HE STATED, FROM CREDIT AGENCIES TELLING US THEY WOULD LOOK FAVORABLY WON THAT IF WE REORGANIZED THE BOARD AT THAT TIME.

THAT WAS TO HELP OUR CREDIT EXPLAINING IT WHAT THE UNIVERSITY OF LOUISVILLE WAS GOING THROUGH.

I ALSO REMEMBER IN 2017 WHEN WE CAME INTO THE MAJORITY, I WAS A THE HOUSE CAULK CHAIR AT THAT TIME, THE MAJORITY CAUCUS CHAIR, AND GOVERNOR BEVINY CAME TO US ASKING TO US REORGANIZE THE KENTUCKY DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION, A FULL RE, AND WE TOLD HIM AT THAT TIME YOU NEED TO DO THAT PROPERLY, YOU NEED TO DO THAT ACCORDING TO STATUTE, AND SO WE DIDN'T ALLOW HIM TO REORGANIZE THAT ENTIRE BOARD AT THAT TIME.

HE DID THAT IN THE PROPER MANNER WHEN THE APPOINTMENTS CAME UP.

HOWEVER, THIS HAS BEEN USED 446 TIMES BY THE PREVIOUS FIVE GOVERNMENTS.

GOVERNMENT CANNOT OPERATE IN AN EFFICIENT MANNER ABOUT THAT MUCH TURNOVER, AND THAT'S REALLY WHAT THIS IS ABOUT.

>> SO I WANT TO MOVE NOW TO TALK ABOUT SOME ACTION THAT YOU ALL TOOK TODAY ON THE BUDGET BILLS.

THE HOUSE PASSED THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH LEGISLATIVE BRANCH AND JUDICIAL BRANCH BUDGETS, BUT THESE ARE JUST CONTINUATION BUDGETS TO ACCOMPLISH A GOAL OF GETTING TO NEGOTIATIONS.

IS THAT CORRECT, REPRESENTATIVE MEADE?

>> IT IS.

WHAT YOU HAVE SEEN IS PRETTY MUCH JUST A FLATLINE BUDGET JUST A CONTINUATION FROM WHAT WE SAW LAST YEAR, AND THE REASON FOR THAT IS WE FELT LIKE WE NEEDED TO MOVE QUICKLY THIS YEAR.

WE LEARNED THE LESSON LAST YEAR THAT A PANDEMIC LIKE THIS COULD POP UP AT ANY TIME.

SOMETHING ELSE COULD POP UP AT ANY TIME.

AND WE NEEDED TO GET THESE BILLS MOVING SO THAT WE'VE GOT SOMETHING OUT THERE TO START THE PROCESS AND GET MOVING DOWN THE ROAD.

THIS WILL GO OVER TO THE SENATE.

I'M SURE THEY'LL MAKE SOME CHANGES LITTLE BIT.

COME BACK.

WE'LL GET IT CONFERENCE COMMITTEE AND WE'LL BE ABLE TO WORK THE IN CONFERENCE OVER THE BREAK AND BE READY TO MOVE ON THAT AS WE COME BACK IN FEBRUARY.

>> SO WEDNESDAY YOU'RE HOPING THE TO GET IT BACK TO THE HOUSE AFTER THE SENATE HAS DONE ITS WORK AND DO EXACTLY WHAT YOU SAID, WORK OVER THE BREAK TO HAMMER OUT A COMPROMISE.

>> WE ARE HOPING FOR THAT.

I WILL LOOK AT MY COLLEAGUE IN THE SENATE, SENATOR GIVENS, AND SEE WHAT HE HAS TO SAY ABOUT THAT.

>> I'M LOOKING AT YOUR COLLEAGUE, TOO, SENATOR GIVENS.

WHAT SAY YOU, SIR?

>> RENEE, I THINK IT IS VERY APPROPRIATE THAT WE BE IN THIS PLACE AND IT'S AN ODD PLACE AGAIN BECAUSE IT'S THE RESULT OF THAT SPRING 2020 COVID.

THE HOUSE WENT THROUGH THE BUDGET.

ONE OF THE FIRST TIME I'VE EVER BEEN HERE IN THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY AND WE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE DONE THE BUDGET IN A POSITIVE FASHION, NOT CUTTING BUT YOU PUTTING MONEY WHERE OUR PRIORITIES ARE.

IT WAS THE FIRST TIME WE WERE WITH HEADED WITH MOTIVE REVENUES.

THE HOUSE DID THEIR WORK.

PASSED TO IT US.

THREE-QUARTERS OF THE WAY THROUGH OUR SENATE BUDGET PROCESS, IT BECAME PARENT THAT COVID WAS REAL AND THE CONCERNS WERE REAL AND THE ECONOMIC IMPACT WAS VERY, VERY UNCERTAIN.

WOULDN'T AHEAD AND PASSED OUT OF THE SENATE THE SORT OF BUDGET WE WOULD HAVE LIKED TO HAVE DONE AS A TWO-YEAR BUDGET, AND THEN ONCE WE GOT INTO CONFERENCE IT BECAME APPARENT THAT A ONE-YEAR BUDGET WAS ALL THAT WE COULD DO AND DO IN A WAY THAT WAS SOUND, NOT KNOWING WHAT THE SECOND YEAR REVENUES WOULD LOOK LIKE.

SO HAVING SAID THAT, I WANT TO GO BACK BRIEFLY TO THIS CONVERSATION ABOUT THE CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT BECAUSE THIS IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF THE SORT OF SESSION THAT I'D LOVE FOR US TO BE ABLE TO EXTEND A LITTLE.

WE'RE GOING TO TRY TO DO ABOUT 60 DAYS OF WORK IN A BUDGET PROCESS IN 30 LEGISLATIVE DAYS.

BUT NONETHELESS WE'RE GOING GOT IT DONE.

THE HOUSE HAS WORKED SKILLFULLY WITH US TO TRY TO GET A BUDGET ON CONVERSATIONS.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE CONSENSUS FORECAST GROUP MEETING EARLY IN DECEMBER, THOSE REVENUE PROJECTIONS WERE BETTER THAN WE HAD EXPECTED.

THE THE DRS.

RECEIPTS INDICATED THAT DECEMBER WAS AN EXCEPTIONAL MONTH GIVEN THE UNCERTAINTY WE WE WERE GOING IN, WE HAD NO IDEA WHAT THE FUTURE HELD FOR US.

THEN ON TOP THAT OF WE'RE HEARING THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IN THIS SECOND ROUND OF CARES MONEY IS GOING TONIGHT FUSE ABOUT $5 BILLION INTO THE KENTUCKY ECONOMY.

SOME PORTION THAT OF FLOWING THROUGH THE STATE, A SIGNIFICANT POURS THAT OF FLOWING DIRECTLY TO CITIZENS TO TRY AND MEET THOSE HOUSEHOLD NEEDS THAT OUR FAMILIES ARE STRUGGLING WITH.

SO WE POTENTIALLY ARE FACED WITH THE OPPORTUNITY TO PUT A LOT OF MONEY INTO A BUDGET RESERVE TRUST FUND FOR UNCERTAINTY THAT MAY LIE AHEAD, INVEST SOME OF THOSE FUNDS IN THE PLACES IN GOVERNMENT THAT WE FEEL ARE MOST BENEFICIAL TO THE CITIZENS OF THE COMMONWEALTH, AND AT THE SAME TIME TRYING TO CONTINUE TO FUND THESE PENSION SYSTEMS.

BUT WE HAVE LIGHT OF WORK TO DO AND A SHORT TIME TO DO IT IN, BUT WE'VE GOT TALENTED STAFF, COLLEAGUES THAT I AGREE WITH THAT ARE TALENTED, COLLEAGUES THAT I DISAGREE WITH THAT ARE VERY TALENTED AND BRING A LOT TO THE TABLE AS WELL.

>> SO IN THE MINUTE AND A HALF THAT WE HAVE REMAINING, SIR, I DO WANT TO ASK QUICKLY ABOUT BREONNA'S LAW.

THAT WAS NOT PART OF THE TOP TEN THAT WENT THROUGH THE SESSION.

QUICKLY, WHERE DOES THAT STAND?

BECAUSE THAT GOES TO A PRIORITY FOR SEVERAL STITZ ACROSS THE STATE.

WHO WANTS TO COMMENTS ON THAT?

SENATOR THOMAS, REAL QUICKLY, SIR.

>> I THINK THAT'LL BE SENATE BILL 4.

SENATE BILL, IF HASN'T BEEN DESIGNATED YET.

I THINK WHEN SENATE BILL 4 IS ANNOUNCE THE, YOU'LL SEE IT DEAL WITH POLICE REFORM, SO JUST BE ON THE LOOK-OUT FOR THAT.

>> AND THAT'S NO-KNOCK WARRANTS PLUS?

>> I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT PLUS PLUS IS BUT THERE IS A PLUS LIST THERE.

>> ARE YOU THE SPONSOR?

>> NO, I'M NOT ON SENATE BILL 4.

>> NOT TO SENATE BILL 4 YOU WOULDN'T BE.

THAT'S PROBABLY SENATOR STIVERS.

I THINK HE HAD MENTIONED THAT BEFORE.

WE'LL FOLLOW UP ON THAT IN THE WEEKS TO COME.

I REALLY DO APPRECIATE YOU ALL BEING HERE WITH US.

THIS IS OUR SECOND WEEK OF TALKING ABOUT THE WORK OF THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY, AND WE REALLY APPRECIATE YOU ALL MAKING THE TIME HAD TO TALK WITH US BECAUSE IT'S A VERY BUSY, BUSY SEASON AND WE'LL BE RIGHT HERE WATCHING IT ALL.

WE'LL BE STARTING OUR COVERAGE TOMORROW MORNING.

THERE ARE SOME MEETINGS AND CHAMBERS, OF COURSE, YOU CAN WATCH IT ALL ONLINE AT KET.ORG.

AND BE THEN WE'LL HAVE A WRAP-UP FOR MANY TOMORROW NIGHT.

I'LL CAN BACK WATT 11:00 P.M. EASTERN TIME TO GIVE YOU THE SKINNY ON WHAT WENT DOWN.

WHAT DAY IS TOMORROW?

>> DAY 12.

>> DAY SIX OF THE SESSION.

DAY SEVEN OF THE SESSION?

>> DAY SEVEN OF THE SESSION.

DAY SEVEN.

THANK YOU, SENATOR GIVENS AND REPRESENTATIVE MEADE AND REPRESENTATIVE HATTON AND SENATOR THOMAS.

THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH.

GOOD LUCK TO YOU IN THE DAYS AHEAD TUNE IN TONIGHT 11:30 EASTERN AS CASEY PARKER-BELL REPORTS ON LEGISLATIVE ACTION IN THE STATE TO RECAP THE ACTION.