What you are about to watch is part of an ongoing project undertaken by KVCR to document and preserve the personal experiences of war veterans living in southern California.

These sacrifices during wartime have contributed to the wellbeing of our nation and indeed, freedom itself.

KVCR's "Reflections on War" originated around Ken Burns' film, "The War".

Grant money became available to help create World War II-related projects but KVCR didn't apply for it.

I personally thought that we should not miss out on this project and moved it forward without the funds.

I felt this project was too important not to do.

The stories of our brave men and women who fought for our country should be told.

What first included only the experiences of local veterans and Japanese-Americans affected by World War II, now includes stories of the men and women who fought and supported American efforts in Korea.

You'll hear from some of these brave Americans for the first time today.

In the near future, KVCR will collect stories from Holocaust survivors, Viet Nam veterans, and veterans of the first Gulf War.

If interested in helping KVCR to fund this ongoing project, visit our website at KVCR.org/reflections.

We thank our veterans for their sacrifices, and we thank you for watching.

♪ [explosion sound effect] ♪ (with vocals) [gunfire effects] ♪ [with vocals] [gunfire effects] ♪ [ with vocals] [gunfire effects] ♪ [with vocals] ♪ [with vocals] ♪ David, VO: I was in the Army, infantry.

I enlisted in 1949.

I didn't want to go to school anymore cause I was behind in my classes.

So, my mama when I told her I was going to join the Army, she said 'well, I want you to be happy in life'.

And, she went with me and we signed.

David: She signed papers for me, and I joined at 17.

I was 17.

♪ David, VO: We arrived in Korea around the ninth of July, and we went up to the front lines, and the enemy was pushing already- ♪ south of the 38th parallel.

And, we were encountered by North Koreans.

♪ And, I was with a new outfit cause that morning tanks came in, busted through our lines and our C-O told us that the war was over, cause no more organization.

That we were all surrounded.

♪ David: That it was up to the individual, to each his own.

So, in the midst of me getting captured, I was out trying to get away from the enemy.

♪ But, they had tactics and they threw mortars at us, and everything.

And, they killed a few of the guys there.

And finally, they were right on top of us and they motioned to us to get up, with their bayonets, and we got up with our hands up.

And, they told us they weren't going to hurt us.

They were going to take us behind enemy lines.

♪ ♪ David: Well, they took us to a farmhouse and all that night and the next day, they were just bringing in all kinds of American prisoners.

♪ We wound up with a group of around 125 prisoners.

About three or four days later, they marched us into the city of Thaechon, and in the building there they had about another 125.

And mostly, we stayed in schoolhouses because those were the largest buildings to accommodate that many prisoners.

♪ David, VO: In August, we headed for the capital of North Korea.

There they had about another 350 guys, 400 guys.

Some guys knew each other, you know, cause they were all from the 24th Division.

We stayed there- oh, just a few weeks.

Then, they just moved us all around.

In the midst of all this, we lost a lot of prisoners.

♪ ♪ ♪ David, VO: When I got captured, I had a pair of nice shiny Jump boots.

They were too tight on me.

And the guy, this North Korean, took my boots away from me, not knowing that he was doing me a favor!

His dirty shoes were alright for me!

♪ So, I was kind of happy he took my boots away cause they were just damaging my feet.

♪ David: Being that we were captured in the summer, we didn't have winter uniforms.

And at one time, they divided 250 uniforms between the 750 prisoners.

Caps- one guy would get a cap.

Next day, I'd get a glove.

One guy got a jacket.

Another guy would, you know, wind up with pants.

So, if you had to go out on detail, you had to borrow stuff to get out in the cold weather, and go work.

♪ But as prisoners were dying, we were taking the clothing from the dead ones, and using that too.

♪ That first winter was very harsh for our troops.

We lost quite a few of them.

They died.

I mean, left and right.

I never seen nothing like it.

I, uh- ♪ I, you know, never in my life dreamt I'd ever seen so much death.

I slept with death.

And, we ate their food to survive.

♪ And, it was just a miserable thing.

I never- you know, I can't even begin to think, now that I'm older, that our troops had to go through so much to live.

And, I've always felt bad about my fellow men to die.

♪ ♪ ♪ David, VO: On Halloween night 1950, we started a march, and we marched for about two, three weeks.

And, the guy in charge of the march, the North Korean, he blew his whistle and everybody stopped.

And, he was going to kill three officers because they said that nobody paid attention to him.

♪ So, he thought they were just goofing off.

So, they lined up three guys.

He was going to set an example to us, and shoot'em all.

There was a little hole where he was going to put them three guys.

♪ And, the Commissioner of the Lord from the Salvation Army, he went up there and pleaded with that officer 'please, don't shoot those three men.

'Shoot me , instead.

'It's not their fault'.

♪ And, the guy says- he let two guys go, but he says 'I can't do that.

'I still have to get rid of one of'- and he killed the guy.

♪ Point blank.

Put a gun behind his back.

He was Lieutenant Thornton, and he was a good man.

And, I thought- when I know, when I witnessed that I always figured that it wasn't going to happen.

I said 'it can't happen'.

♪ I was young, naïve.

I figured it was only in the movies.

But, I actually seen it with my own eyes.

A man put a gun behind a guy's neck, and he shot him.

And, none of us have ever forgotten it.

♪ And on that march, we knew that guy meant business.

Whenever he said, whatever he said, we were going to follow orders.

♪ But like a lot of these guys that were wounded and everything that, you know, just couldn't keep up with the march, they did away with them.

♪ I never actually seen them get shot but you could hear that Berv gun just- [makes gun sound effects], putting them away.

And, we lost quite a few.

I mean, every day guys were failing to keep up.

♪ ♪ David: I had a friend- I talked to him before... you know?

He said "just leave me here.

"I can't make it.

"I'm hurting too much.

"I just can't.

I'd rather die".

♪ When I look back, he was on his 'fours'.

He was laying on the ground.

He was trying to push himself, like- I seen them eyes, like saying 'goodbye'.

♪ ♪ ♪ David, VO: When we ended that march, I stayed at this same house where they would bring guys there all the time to die.

They called that a 'hospital'.

(chuckles) ♪ David: They had about three shacks around in the area there.

Probably hold about 15 guys at all times.

And when they would put them in there, it was just to die.

♪ One day this guy on detail came by and he says "everybody thinks you're dead.

"It's a surprise to find you here and you're still alive.

"Whatever you do", he says, "don't leave here.

"You're going to see how bad it is in the outside "of them other shacks.

"Guys can die like flies'.

♪ It's just it's so cold.

No food.

So, I just ate some of that other- not only my ration, but I ate out of dead people's rations.

♪ A lot of times when they come and count heads, the guards, how many men are in there- we would keep the dead guys there another day or two, three.

♪ So, they would give some rations there.

That's what I lived on.

And, it got to- I reckon I liked them dead guys, cause it kept me going, too.

And, that's probably why I'm here today.

♪ ♪ David: By October 1951, our group of 750 men had shrunk to about maybe 300 personnel.

♪ And, we also had a group of civilians.

There was over a hundred civilians that got captured there in Seoul, Korea.

♪ ♪ David, VO: There were schoolteachers, priests, nuns, mostly all Europeans.

Salvation Army, too.

♪ ♪ David, VO: And then for some reason or another, they turned us over to the Chinese.

But when we got to the Chinese, they didn't think we were Americans.

♪ Thought we were Russians, or people from another country.

Cause we were all worn out.

We'd been dying, and it was just an unbelievable thing.

♪ And, the program changed.

It went from like black to white.

It just- they gave us uniforms which we never had.

♪ They gave us a blanket.

They gave us more food.

It was just entirely a different world with the Chinese.

To this day, I still can't believe it.

How could they have not- (gasps) David (sobs): How could- (pauses) the North Koreans, they had done what they did to us?

We lost so many nice guys.

And then with the Chinese, turned around and then they're nice to us?

I could never believe it.

♪ ♪ ♪ David: When you're young, you don't understand the whole picture of life.

You think you do, and you do to a certain point.

I grew up, I knew that I could never see my face in the mirror cause I wouldn't know if it was the same.

♪ But sometimes, I would lay down on my stomach to drink water out of the little streams.

Sometimes I could see a reflection.

And, I wondered- 'a year has gone by, 'two years have gone by.

'Now we're going to three years.

♪ 'I wonder what I must look like'?

You, you've grown.

The changes are in you.

You're a grown person.

You're a grown man.

They say 'oh, my god.

I'm 19.

I'm 20'.

♪ I wonder, 'what am I now?

What do I look like'?

And, I would smile and then look at my reflection in the water.

Lot of cold water up there.

And, we lived in the dark.

Not ever knowing what was around us; which way was south, north, east, west?

♪ We didn't know whether there was a war going on, or what was going on.

And, you lose all your sense of being a human being like you used to be when you were young.

And we all had animal names, a lot of the guys.

Cause we really thought we were animals.

♪ That's how our life got to be because of our way that we were living, and everybody was always hungry.

I mean, one time I ate bones.

They had been in the soup for I don't know how long.

♪ And they threw them away, and I said 'oh, heck.

I'm going to eat some of them bones.

I don't give a damn.

If the dogs can eat them, why can't I?

What difference is it going to make?

♪ ♪ David: But, now- now when I think about life, it's scary now.

Because sometimes I often wonder 'what would young people do'?

And, I look at them and I just can't imagine.

♪ David, VO: Just, uh- a life that I hope that no one ever has to go through.

♪ [with vocals] ♪ ♪ David: Some guys used to eat snakes.

We'd kill snakes, and we just brought them to two, three guys and they liked their snakes.

And, we used to eat frogs.

♪ We'd go gigging in the rice paddies.

Get them little bitty frogs, just roast them with coals outside there.

Eat the bone and everything to keep us going, cause we're all too weak.

And, I was afraid of death, which is normal I guess for anybody.

♪ I didn't want to give up.

I wanted to live.

I wanted to come back home.

I- when I used to go out on wood detail, and we had to climb mountains, big hills, and get wood for our own use.

♪ When I would climb up there, I could see beyond.

And, I would ask the Lord when I was up in them hills 'what have I done so bad in this life, dear Lord?

'Why are you punishing me so much'?

(gasps) 'I want to go home.

'I wanna see my home'.

♪ And, I kept the faith and He gave me strength.

And, He made my wishes come true.

I came home!

And when I- at nighttime when I pray, I always pray not only for myself but for the ones that stayed behind.

I hope they're never forgotten.

(sniffles/gasps) ♪ ♪ ♪ Jack: I was in high school, and a friend of ours decided that we should all join the Marine Reserves.

♪ So, we all traipsed down to the armory in Chavez Ravine, and joined the Marine Reserves.

And, there wasn't any war going on at the time.

This was probably in 1947, and we were just making some money, you know?

At the time the Korean War came out, I knew nothing about Korea or what was happening.

I was by that time, I was in the drama department at Los Angeles City College and that's what I was involved in.

I was sitting on the arcade one day, and this kid came and said "oh, you've been called'" I said "what do you mean I've been called?"

He said "for the Korean War".

I said "what do you mean "I've been called for the Korean War?"

He said "well, look at this newspaper".

And there was a picture that had been taken at summer camp, and I was right in the middle of the picture, and it said "Marines Called".

And, I said "but I haven't got a letter.

"I haven't been called'.

I went home that day, and there was a letter in my mailbox!

(chuckles) And, I was called back in to the service.

Anyway the next thing I know, we're climbing down cargo nets going, making the Inchon Landing.

And, they had us land at a certain time because there was a fifteen foot tide, and there were sea walls.

So, we had to go in at high tide.

We landed on the beach, and we had our packs on.

And, it's explosions and machine guns going off, and it's like being in a war movie.

That's what it was like to me.

And, I can remember lying in the mud firing at these white figures.

Then they fall, but I don't know if they've ducked or I've hit them.

And then later on, we carried 'wounded', out.

But there were no stretchers, you know?

♪ We carried them in ponchos.

So, six people had to carry, with the guys crying and screaming and bleeding, and you know?

♪ And, you have to get over that feeling: 'well, I can't do this'.

You have to do it!

There's no way- no two ways about it.

You just, you know, have to get up and go.

♪ ♪ [with vocals] ♪ [machine gun fire/ exploding bombs] ♪ [with vocals] Jack: Going over, I was on the boat going over.

I was an ammo carrier for machine guns.

And they said one day, 'you know, we're going to make Traynor, who is the runner, we're going to make Traynor an ammo carrier, and we're going to make you the runner'.

So, I was a runner for machine guns and I had to be with the lieutenant, and he would decide where the machine guns were to be placed.

Then, it was my job to go to that machine gun squad and say 'you're supposed to be on this hill, 'you're supposed to be over there'.

And because I was a runner, I was transferred from one squad to another, you know?

I was never really in the same place.

And- a skirmish would happen with this squad- which I'd just been with, but I was with this squad now.

So, I was moved around a lot.

And (gasps)- as I told you, on the boat, they changed- (pauses) Traynor and me.

He was an ammo carrier.

He was a runner, and then they made him an ammo carrier.

He was killed the first couple days in.

And, I have to go pick up his body.

(gasps/sniffles) Jack: I'm sorry!

I had to pick up his body.

And- (pauses) he'd been married for four days before he was shipped out.

Jack: He'd been shot in the head.

♪ [with vocals] ♪ ♪ [with vocals] Jack: People, I found out who were 24 and 25, really couldn't handle it.

It's the 18 year olds, 19 year olds, 20 year olds who haven't really started a life.

They were the ones that are really fighting the wars.

And I mean, when you're 17, 18, you know, I didn't think anything was really going to happen to me.

I mean, I was scared.

I was so fortunate, you know?

I remember the guerrillas overran our positions once, and our first company, our first platoon was practically wiped out.

And (ahem), we were walking down a railhead going back to the headquarters, and they said 'halt, who goes there?'

And so our first sergeant and our lieutenant went to give the password, and they were Koreans!

They opened up with machine guns.

And like, four or five men on this side were hit.

And then, every other man on this side was hit.

The lieutenant was in front of me.

I wasn't; he was hit.

The man behind me was hit.

And, I remember we dived into the rice paddies.

This one corporal, Corporal Pratt, he was the machine gunner at the time.

He grabbed the machine gun.

Now, you can't hold the machine gun like they do in the movies, and fire it in the air.

But, he kept them away!

You know, he just held it on his hip.

I mean, it was- you know, going all over the place.

But, you could see the Koreans circling us, you know?

And, we pulled back into perimeter and sort of dug in.

Now for some reason, they didn't attack.

I don't know why, you know?

But, they could've totally wiped us out, you know?

♪ [with vocals] ♪ Jack: I think the first dead Korean I saw was- (pauses) had been run over by a tank.

And, it was just like a rug on the road, you know?

And- and then, we went by a field of dead Koreans that we had to walk through, you know?

And no, it doesn't get easier but you get hardened to it.

And, we get to Seoul.

The whole city is in flames.

People are bucket brigades, trying to put the fires out.

And the peasants, they don't know what's going on, you know?

And mostly, what I'm seeing is ruins and buildings burned down.

And, poor children who've lost their parents who are begging, you know, for some food from you on the streets.

I mean, war is so horrible.

And, I remember first seeing some captured enemy, and I just sort of looked at them.

I don't remember really any reaction that I had except "oh, that's the enemy.

"That's who we're fighting.

"That's who we're supposed to hate", you know?

Jack: You have to sort of, I guess, be taught to hate the enemy so you can fight the war, you know?

If you didn't-, Jack: If you didn't, I don't, I- Jack: You have to be taught that they're different, I guess, you know?

♪ And that's I think what's wrong with our society.

That, you know- we're all the same.

We all bleed.

♪ ♪ [marching footsteps] ♪ (firing of artillery) ♪ ♪ Jack: I made the Inchon Landing in 1950.

I was there for nine months.

And what's interesting to me, you know, is that they train you to go to war, but they don't train you for civilian life again.

And, you just have to sort of assume, you know, that persona you had before, and be that person.

And, I remember somebody came up to me and said 'you were so different when you came back 'but now, you're just like you were'.

So, I don't know whether I hid it, or- (pauses) I just became my old self again.

And, there wasn't a conscious adjustment.

I came back and I went right back to City College on the G-I Bill, and went into the drama department.

I got my first job and got my Screen Actors Guild card.

My agent Isabel Draismer called and said 'you have an interview at Warner Brothers.

'It's the new James Dean movie'!

And, I played the character of Moose.

And Beverly Long, who was in the film, and I went to see "East of Eden" and we're bowled away by the performance.

And realized, 'oh, my gosh.

We're going to work with this guy!'

You know?

But everyone asks me 'what is he like?

', and he's a 24 year old who was really just trying to find out who he was, you know?

And, had a good inkling of things to do on screen.

His mind kept working.

And then, Elvis!

Elvis was a couple years later, I think in '54- "King Creole".

And, I played Dummy who was a deaf mute, and kills Walter Matthau and saves Elvis' life.

During takes, he would play his guitar on the set and sing, you know?

They were both very successful movies.

And, "Rebel" is bigger now than it, you know, was then.

And there'd never been a film where a star had died that had made any success.

And, Warner Brothers had two!

"Rebel without a Cause", and "Giant".

But then, this cult thing caught on, and I was very fortunate, you know?

But I must say I wouldn't want to ever do it again.

But, I'm glad I was in the Marine Corps and I'm glad I had that experience, and I guess there's always hope.

♪ ♪ Jack: There's always God watching over us.

♪ ♪ Jack: And, that's what will get us through.

♪ [with vocals] ♪ ♪ [exploding bombs/ machine gun fire] ♪ Robert: I joined the National Guard in 1950, and then six months later, I volunteered for Korea to regular Army.

I was 16, and I lied about my age [chuckles] to get in.

And, I was supposed to graduate in June of '51.

I was on the front lines in June.

As a matter of fact, I didn't even know where it was.

'Korea?

What's that?'

After I volunteered, I found out where it was.

And, I only had my mom.

She was always working and it was more or less to get out of the house, you know?

To do something.

There was no work, anyway.

Unless you went out to pick oranges.

(chuckles) And, nobody liked to pick oranges!

And, you know, you're away from home for a month, and before you know it, it's two months, three months.

Then, it starts hitting you, and it was a bad place.

There was no buildings.

The villages were all gone, burnt.

And the smell was something else.

So, that started everything.

You know, what am I doing here?

Seeing things that you mentioned, you'd even see death.

People suffering, starving.

It was hard to see all that.

I mean, the kids- they were always crying cause they were hungry.

And, I know there was one incident where I saw an old lady eating food out of a garbage can, and I gave her my C-rations which was corned beef hash, and I hated it.

And, I gave her this food, and she got down and kissed my boots.

Man, I felt about that big.

I thought, 'oh god, you know?'

I had never seen that before.

You know, starving.

So, it hits home.

♪ ♪ ♪ Robert: My first experience with combat was in a mine field at night.

We were on patrol and we were caught in a mine field, and the mines started going off around us.

I could hear guys yelling, screaming.

♪ And, my sergeant says 'get up and run like hell'.

And as we were running, it was kind of an incline downhill, you could still hear the mines going off.

[exploding bombs] Robert: It scared the hell out of you!

(chuckles) You know?

You could- I don't know.

Your whole body changes.

Your body changes- well, I was hardened.

♪ Very hardened on death, and suffering and all that.

I didn't give a damn.

I didn't care.

At first, everybody's real careful, you know?

Then, there's times where you can't hide underneath your helmet.

That's all!

(chuckles) You get small.

But, we moved up to the front lines.

My sergeant, he was supposed to go home the next day.

He was being rotated, and he was from World War II.

And, I never thought- to me , he was an old guy, you know?

And, he was hit by a sniper right next to me.

And, he kind of groaned and that was it.

And, he got killed there.

♪ ♪ Robert: I carried a bazooka.

And they- I wasn't in use.

I mean, there was a B-A-R and machine guns and all that.

And if they wanted me, they'd call.

Like, to knock out a kill box or something like that.

But, I wasn't called on.

But one time we were on patrol, and these Chinese were working up this draw.

And, my friend next to me had a B-A-R.

And we started a fire fight.

And, I said 'there's two of them down there'.

He says 'where?'

He said 'I can't see them'.

I said 'well, I can see them'.

So, I got his B-A-R and I fired to where they were at.

[machine gun fire] Robert: And, the next day we went down and check.

And, the two that I got, I felt terrible.

I felt bad because they had wallets and stuff.

And, they had their girlfriends or whatever, and I thought 'oh man, oh shoot!'

♪ Then, I figured this could've been me , you know?

That changed things around.

It's a good thing I was young.

But that sticks with me a lot, you know, you kill somebody.

And it can be 50, 60, 70 years.

I'll never forget those guys' faces.

It just stays with you, you know?

♪ ♪ ♪ Robert: One thing that really sticks in my mind, we had six prisoners laying on the ground.

And, a guy asked 'what are we going to do with those prisoners?'

'Kill them'.

And, I was standing right there.

♪ And, if you ever seen a man's face- face of death, you'll never forget it.

They must've understood what he said.

And, they shot him- cold blood.

But the thing is you're- like I said, I got hardened to that later on.

It didn't even bother me.

♪ But I still think back, and you know, those poor Chinese they suffered also.

They didn't have boots.

In the wintertime, they were walking around with icicles on their feet and everything else.

They were like lambs being led to slaughter.

They didn't- they didn't even know what the hell they were doing there in the first place, a lot of them.

♪ ♪ [howling wind] ♪ ♪ Robert: I spent two winters there, and it was nasty.

And one time, I was checking my guard and we had a young replacement.

And, it was windy and snowing, blizzard type.

I mean it was colder than heck.

♪ I kept getting closer and closer, and when I got up there, he was shaking.

I said 'what's wrong?'

He said 'I just fired my rifle and it jammed'.

And, he fired it at me, point blank!

♪ He didn't know who the hell I was, but I was just checking my guard.

And, you know, when it's all that snow and junk flying around, you can't see anything.

♪ But after I found out his gun jammed, that was it.

I was ready to come home.

And I tell you, the misery of rain and cold and- I mean, it's bad.

Very bad.

And, that was a close call.

♪ ♪ ♪ Robert: There was this Polock from Chicago, Milushinek- Richard.

And there was Chris Phillips from Texas, and Owen Silver from, uh- Steubenville, Ohio.

And Fleener.

That's about, maybe 10 of us guys that were really, you know?

All young guys.

I mean, now are old guys.

But I never saw none of those guys again.

♪ ♪ Robert: And of course, I had a friend Richard Martinez.

He was my age.

Born in '33.

We hit it off right away.

I don't know why.

Then one morning, he went out on patrol with- it was another squad.

And that afternoon, he didn't come back.

I don't know how, but he got shot, and that was it.

♪ And then after that, there was one incident where my Korean interpreter, his name was Big Mike, and we were good friends.

We'd share our food and everything.

♪ And we had other interpreters, but it was Big Mike who told me about the 'baby-sans', the 'mama-sans', all that stuff.

Anyway, every time we moved up, our outfit would go first.

You know, like a spearhead.

♪ So when we moved up to the front lines, we had an incoming round hit and there was- I mean, I got dirt in the face and everything.

♪ I didn't get wounded but Big Mike was hit and was gone, burnt.

And that's pain, you know?

But to talk about this, you got to talk to a person that knows or has been through what you've been through.

♪ You have to have been there to feel it, to see it.

I can talk to people till I'm blue in the face; they don't know what the hell I'm talking about, you know?

You can talk about it and write about it, but to experience it, smell it, feel it, taste it and all that.

That's, you know- when it comes back to you.

♪ ♪ ♪ Robert: The worst part of the Korean War was you sacrificed all those lives.

But all I can tell the G-I's now- (pauses) I'm proud that I was there.

I can say after going back twice, I feel very, you know, happy!

There is a sense of pride to see progress in the people, and the kids laughing.

The little kids, I'll say 'oh, hi!

How are you?'

and all that stuff.

Babies, you know, kindergarten people, and that's very good to see.

Happy, happy faces.

♪ [with vocals] ♪ ♪ Frank, VO: What are your thoughts on the phrase 'The Forgotten War'?

What are your thoughts?

♪ Jack: It really makes me angry, you know?

We lost a dear friend, Ray Cowles, over there.

He was one of the four of us that joined the Marine Reserves.

And, uh- (pauses) Traynor, you know?

♪ Several of the other people in my company.

It's, it's- are they really forgotten?

♪ Robert: Now, I'm glad that we're being recognized after so many years cause the people that are old, they know what they went through.

♪ Suffering and no food, and stuff like that.

But the younger generation, they've got it all.

They've got everything.

♪ David: Whether Korea was a big thing or a little thing, all I know is that I was there.

♪ But it never made me think like it was a forgotten war, nothing.

Cause maybe to the general public it was, but when you leave it and know what happened to you, how can you forget it?

It's embedded in you.

Korea will never be forgotten.

Not to me, ever.

♪