>> Crossley: WELCOME TO BASIC BLACK, SOME OF YOU ARE JOINING US ON OUR BROADCAST AND OTHERS OF YOU ARE JOINING US ON FACEBOOK AND TWITTER.

I AM CALLIE CROSSLEY, HOST OF UNDER THE RADAR 89.7.

TONIGHT RUTH'S RHYTHM-- ROOTS, RHYTHM AND CULTURE WE LIKE ARE YOU DEALING WITH THE EFFECTS OF THE CORONAVIRUS PANDEMIC AND ARE TAKING PRECAUTIONS.

WE ARE WORKING WITH LIMITED STAFF AND OUR GUESTS ARE JOINING US REMOTELY.

AFRICAN-AMERICAN ACTRESS AMANDLA CITIZENBERG ONCE ASKED WHAT WOULD AMERICA BE LIKE IF IT LOVED BLACK PEOPLE AS MUCH AS IT LOVED BLACK CULTURE.

AMANDLA WAS TALKING ABOUT THE PHENOMENON OF USING CERTAIN CULTURAL ASPECTS FROM COMMUNITIES OF COLOR DETACHED FROM THEIR CULTURAL ROOTS.

EXPERTS CALL IT CULTURE APPROPRIATION.

AND POINT TO EXAMPLES LIKE SINGER KATY PERRY PERFORMING WHILE WEARING GEISHA, WHITE RAPPERS ADOPTING THE STYLISTIC PHRASING OF AFRICAN-AMERICAN RAP ARTISTS AND SUPERMODEL KARLIE KLOSS WALKING DESIGNER RUNWAYS WITH NATIVE AMERICAN HEADDRESSES BUT IS THE CHERRY PICKING OF CULTURAL ASPECTS HARMFUL OR IS IT RESPECTFUL APPRECIATION AND WHY DOES IT MATTER?

JOINING US REMOTELY YULEIO RERICARDO VAR ELLA, FOUNDER AND PUBLISHER-OF-LATINO REBEL AND DIRECT EVER OF FUTURO MEDIA, EDWARD OF SAMPAN NEWSPAPER IN BOSTON AND CHIEF OPERATING OFFICER AT THE ASIAN AMERICAN CIVIC ASSOCIATION.

AND JUAN FERNANDEZ LOPARA VICE PRESIDENT AND CORPORATE BUSINESS DIVERSITY OFFICER AT TUFTS HEALTH PLAN AND HARVARD PILGRIM HEALTH CARE.

SUSAN X JANE, PRINCIPAL OF NAVIGATORS CONSULTING, SHE HAS OVER 25 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE WORKING IN THE FIELD OF CULTURE, DIE VERSITY AND INCLUSION.

WELCOME TO ALL OF YOU.

>> SO LET ME START THIS YEAH, JULIA, WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CULTURE APPROPRIATION AND CULTURAL APPRECIATION.

>> THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

I THINK CULTURAL APPROPRIATION, WE'RE JUST COMING OFF CINQO DE MAYO WHICH WAS A WEIRD CELEBRATION IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PANDEMIC, AND I THINK EXAMPLES OF CULTURAL A PROARKS IS WHEN THE RIGHT INTENT IS NOT BEING USED OR I THINK YOU TAKE SOMETHING LIKE CINQO DE MAYO WHICH HAS BECOME THIS, EVEN THOUGH IT IS, YOU KNOW, IT IS NOT EVEN CELEBRATED IN MEXICO, IT HAS BECOME SORT OF HOLIDAY IN THE UNITED STATES THAT HAS BEEN PRIMARILY FROM THE MEXICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY, BUT IT HAS BECOME SOMETHING ELSE.

AND IT HAS BECOME I THINK, YOU KNOW, ON PAR WITH ST. PATRICK'S DAY.

AND SO THERE ARE GOOD THINGS AND BAD THINGS AND THERE ARE A LOT OF BAD THINGS THAT HAVE HAPPENED WHERE IT BECOMES SORT OF LIKE MARKETING.

AND IT BECOMES A PLACE THAT I DON'T KNOW IF YOU APPRECIATE THE CULTURAL OR EVEN THE HISTORY OF WHAT CINQO DE MAYO IS ALL ABOUT.

AND THE FACT THAT IT IS NOT EVEN FULLY CELEBRATED IN MEXICO, IT IS NOT MEXICO'S INDEPENDENCE DAY.

I THINK THAT IS THE PERFECT EXAMPE OF IT'S BECOME PART OF THE AMERICAN FABRIC.

I DON'T THINK FOR THE RIGHT REASONS.

AND BUT THE BATTLE HAS ALREADY BEEN LOST TO, D BASED, BUT I THINK LIKE THAT IS THE PERFECT EXAMPLE.

AND YOU HAVE SEEN A LOT OF, IN THE PAST, EXAMPLES OF PEOPLE CALLING IT LIKE CINCO DE DRINKO OR YOU KNOW, WEARING LIKE BIG SOMBREROS AND OTHER THINGS AND YOU KNOW, THERE HAVE ACTUALLY BEEN CASES IN THE MEDIA WHERE PEOPLE HAVE HAD TO APOLOGIZE FOR TAKING IT TOO FAR BECAUSE IT DOES PERPETUATE STEREOTYPES OF THE DRUNK MEXICANS OR LATINO PEOPLE.

SO THAT TO ME IS CULTURAL APPROPRIATION AT ITS WORST.

I THINK CULTURAL APPRECIATION IS WHEN YOU DO HAVE THE RIGHT INTENT AND ENGAGE THE COMMUNITY AND UNDERSTAND THAT WE NEED TO BE PARTNERS IN WHATEVER IS BEING PRESENTED OR DISPLAYED OR WE THIGHED TO BE AT THE TABLE.

AND IT IS A QUESTION OF REPRESENTATION AND THOSE COMPANIES AND THOSE ORGANIZATIONS THAT UNDERSTAND THAT ARE I THINK THE COMPANIES OF THE FUTURE AND THE COMPANIES THAT ARE LEADING THE WAY.

>> OKAY, SAME QUESTION TO YOU, JUAN.

YOU WANT TO PICK UP ON THE CINQO DE MAYO BECAUSE I KNOW THAT IS SOMETHING VERY IRRITATING TO YOU.

>> OH GOODNESS, INDEED SHALL-- INDEED, ORIGINALLY FROM COLUMBIA, IN FACT, GREETINGS FROM COLUMBIA, I'M CURRENTLY CALLING IN FROM MY NATIVE COUNTRY.

AND NO ONE IN COLUMBIA KNOWS WHAT CINQO DE MAYO IS, AS JULIO ACTUALLY TO SUPPORT WHAT HE STATED, ONLY 10% OF AMERICANS EVEN KNOW THE REASON BEHIND CINQO DE MAYO.

A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS MEXICAN INDEPENDENCE DAY.

THAT IS ACTUALLY ON SEPTEMBER 16th.

AS JULIO MENTIONED, IT IS CELEBRATES THE BATTLE OF PUEBLA DURING THE FRANCO-MEXICAN WAR OF 1862.

NO ONE KNOWS THAT.

AND TO HIS POINT, IF HE REALLY WANTS TO APPRECIATE THE CULTURE AT A MINIMUM, YOU SHOULD KNOW WHAT IS BEING CELEBRATED, AS OPPOSED TO JUST SIMPLY A PARTY AND GET DRUNK WHICH IS OFTEN THE CASE THAT DAY IN MEXICO, THE MEXICANS DO CELEBRATE IT, IT IS A DATE, A DAY WHEN FAMILIES COME TOGETHER, COOK, DANCE AND PRAY FOR THEIR ANCESTORS.

NO ONE REALLY KNOWS THAT.

IN MY AREA, IN BOSTON, WE HAVE A LARGE FAST GROWING LATINO COMMUNITY, 130,000 STRONG, AND IN THE GREATER BOSTON AREA, 2% PUERTO RICAN, ANOTHER 24% FROM THE DOMINICAN REPUBLIC AND THEN A GOOD AMOUNT OF SALVADORIANS, COLOMBIANS, VERY SMALL MINE ORDER OF LATINOS IN BOSTON ARE FROM MEXICO.

WHEN YOU MENTION CINQO DE MAYO, NO ONE KNOWS WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT I LIKE THAT THOUGHT OF CULTURAL APPRECIATION.

I ACTUALLY LIKE THE TERM CULTURAL ADAPTATION.

AS AN ORGANIZATION REALLY WANTS TO DO THIS RIGHT, YOU TAKE THE TIME TO CELEBRATE CULTURAL, NOT SIMPLY BY TRANSLATING AN AMERICAN SLOGAN AND TAKE THE TIME TO CUL TURLLY-- CULTURALLY ADAPT TO MAKE SURE IT RESTS WITH THE COMMUNITIES THAT YOU ARE TRYING TO SERVE, SO I ACTUALLY, I USE THE TERM CULTURAL CULTURAL ADAPTATION QUITE OFTEN.

>> SAME QUESTION TO YOU, WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CULTURAL APPROPRIATION AND CULTURAL APPRECIATION?

>> SURE.

I WOULD AGREE WITH JUAN AND JULIO, IN TERMS OF INTENT, BUT I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO MAKE THE POINT THAT SOMETIMES SOMEONE MAY NOT HAVE A NEGATIVE INTENT AND STILL BE CULTURALLY APPROPRIATE, IN THINGS THAT ARE IMPORTANT TO THE CULTURE THEY ARE TAKING FROM.

I MEAN WE MENTIONED THAT-- EARLIER WHICH CHINESE CULTURE, WE CALL IT A CHEAP-- THERE WAS A CHASE NOT TOO LONG AGO THAT BECAME PRETTY INFAMOUS OF A HIGH SCHOOL GIRL, BASICALLY IT BECAME POLARIZING WHERE SOME PEOPLE WERE SAYING NO, DON'T STEAL FROM MY CULTURAL-- QUUL TURE TO MAKE YOURSELF LOOK BEAUTIFUL, NOT UNDERSTANDING WHAT IT MEANS BUVMENT I DON'T THINK THAT HIGH-SCHOOL STUDENTS ACTUALLY HAVE A NEGATIVE INTENT, WHEN SHE DECIDES TO WEAR THAT DRESS.

THAT DOESN'T NECESSARILY EXCUSE THE AK OF WEARING THE DRESS IN UNDERSTANDING AND RECOGNIZING THAT IN MANY WAYS BECAUSE OF HOLLYWOOD'S PERPETUAL PORTRAYAL OF ASIAN WOMEN AS ITEMS TO FETISHIZE, THAT IS PERPETUATING THAT MYTH OF FETISHISTIC ITEMS FROM ASIAN CULTURE.

SO THERE ARE, THAT IS A-- APPROPRIATION WITHOUT A CLEAR INTENT IT IS IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE THREAD THAT JULIO AND JUAN PICKED UP ON IS THE KRD THAT THERE HAS TO BE AN UNDERSTANDING.

AND UNDERSTAND THE CULTURE AND STOP AND THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE DOING BEFORE YOU DO IT.

>> SO SUSAN, SAME QUESTION.

>> I THINK OF CULTURAL APPROPRIATION OF TAKING JUST THE VISIBLE, THE SURFACE ASPECTS OF CULTURE AND DISPOATION OF THE REST OF THAT CULTURE.

I THINK WHEN PEOPLE ENGAGE IN CULTURAL APPROPRIATION, OFTENTIMES IT'S THE EXPRESSION OF CULTURE, THE BEAUTY, ART, MUSIC, DANCE, WITHOUT REALLY TAKING ON BOARD THE ISSUES, THE IDEAS, THE BELIEFS AND VALUES OF THAT CULTURE.

REALLY LEAVING THAT ON THE SIDE.

AND I THINK ESPECIALLY IN OUR OWN CULTURE WE KIND OF SHOP AROUND FOR IDENTITIES.

BUT WHEN THOSE COMMUNITIES REALLY NEED PEOPLE TO SHOW UP, PEOPLE ARE NOT AROUND.

YOU KNOW, AND I THINK THERE'S ALSO THIS IDEA OF APPROPRIATION, THIS IDEA OF PEOPLE GETTING FUNDS OR RECEIVING MONEY OR EARNING MONEY OFF THE BACKS OF OTHER PEOPLE'S CULTURAL CAPITAL SO I THINK ADDING THAT IDEA OF CULTURE AS CAPITAL, AS SOMETHING THAT IS VALUE -- VALUABLE AND COMMODITYIFIED IS IMPORTANT TOO.

ESPECIALLY WHEN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE WORLD OF FASHION AND ENTERTAINMENT, WE SHOULD UNDERSTAND THAT ARTISTS ARE COMMODITY FYING CULTURAL, PARTICULARLY BLACK CULTURE IN MY CONCERN, AND REALLY TRADING IN ON THAT.

AND THEY'RE EARNING A LOT OF MONEY WHILE NOT REALLY CONTRIBUTING TO COMMUNITY, THAT THEY ARE TAKING THOSE IDEAS FROM.

SO I THINK YOU CAN APPRECIATE CULTURE.

YOU CAN TAKE IN THE WHOLE CULTURE AND REALLY ENGAGE DEEPLY WITH IT, BUT YOU REALLY WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT ARE YOU NOT JUST SKINNING A CULTURAL AN WEARING IT AROUND LIKE A COSTUME.

>> SO SUSAN, I WANT TO GET YOUR RESPONSE TO JUSTIN BIEBER WHO HAS SAID I APPRECIATE BLACK CULTURAL-- CULTURE.

I'M USING IT IN MY SONGS, BUT I DON'T SEE BLACK AND WHITE.

EXPLAIN TO ME, THAT SAY QUOTE.

>> THAT IS DEFINITELY CULTURAL APPROPRIATION.

IS HE COMMODITY FIES BLACK CULTURE AND HAS COMMODITYIFIED IT THROUGHOUT HIS WHOLE CAREER.

HE WAS DISCOVERED BY USHER.

SO A BIG PART OF WHAT MADE HIM WHO HE WAS WAS HIS USE OF BLACK CULTURE, USE OF BLACK VERNACULAR, BLACK MUSIC STYLES.

AND SO TO SAY HE DOESN'T SEE BLACK AND WHITE WHEN WE ARE LIVING THROUGH A TIME WHEN THERE IS SO MUCH DIVISION, AND BLACK PEOPLE ARE STRUGGLING WITH VIOLENCE, POLICE BRUTALITY, POLITICAL MARGINALIZATION, TO SING AND DANCE LIKE US, THEN TO NOT CARE ABOUT US, I THINK IS THE WORST KIND OF COMMODITY IF I KAITION.

AND TO TAKE ON LOCKS WHICH HAS A SPIRITUAL AND SYMBOLIC SIGNIFICANTS OF THE CULTURE WHICH IS ABOUT ABOUT THE BLACK EXPERIENCE AND NOT MERELY THE EXPIRATION OF IT, REALLY IS AN INDICATION-- INDICATOR OF THE WORST KIND OF CULTURAL APPROPRIATION.

BECAUSE WE NEED PEOPLE TO SHOW UP FOR IT, NOT JUST WHEN THEY THINK IT'S CUTE.

>> SO YOU ALL GIVE GREAT EXAMPLES AND RESPONDED TO THEM AND I CAN IMAGINE SOME PEOPLE LISTENING TO THIS SAYING IT'S NOT NICE.

AND BUT YOU KNOW, WHAT IS THE HARM IN THE END.

I MEAN WHO IS HARMED.

SUSAN, YOU RAISED THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE MAKING MONEY SO YOU HAVE ARTICULATED ONE HARM IS THE PEOPLE FOR WHOM THE CULTURE IS DERIVED ARE NOT PROFEKED, AND THE MONEY THAT BIEBER WAS ABLE TO DERIVE, I WAS INTERESTED IN THE CASE OF THE WOMAN WHO HAD, I GUESS, IS PRETENDED TO BE LATINO AND WAS IN VERY HIGH CIRCLES IN THE LEGAL DEPARTMENTS AND LAWYERING IN NEW YORK.

AND THEN WAS DISCOVERED NOT TO BE SO.

IS THAT AN EXAMPLE OF HARM THAT YOU CAN POINT TO?

NESS THAT IS A CLEAR EXAMPLE OF HARM.

HER NAME WAS NATASHA BANNON, SHE WAS A CONTRIBUTOR TO LATINO REBELS AND WE HAD TO KIND OF DEPLATFORM HER BECAUSE OUR COMMUNITY SAW RIGHT THROUGH THAT.

AND AGAIN, I AM WITH EDWARD.

I DON'T THINK IT'S ABOUT BAD INTENT.

I DON'T THINK PEOPLE COME IN TO BE LIKE I'M GOING TO STEAL CULTURE, BUT I DO THINK THERE IS SOMETHING TO BE SAID ABOUT HOW APPROPRIATION IS USED AS A WEAPON, TO GET ACCESS TO MORE ACCESS TO POWER AND REPRESENTATION.

AND WHO ARE THE COMMUNITIES THAT SUFFER.

WHERE IS THE ARM HARM, THE HARM IS IN COMMUNITIES OF DOLLAR WHO DON'T HAVE THE ACCESS BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY THERE WAS A CLEAR EXAMPLE OF SOMEONE WHO ALSO, YOU KNOW, IN FAIRNESS HAD A LATINO STEP DAD, GREW UP IN A CULTURAL PLACE WHERE SHE MIGHT HAVE GROWN UP CULTURALLY THIS THAT WORLD, BUT WAS GIVEN OPPORTUNITIES BECAUSE SHE CLAIMED TO BE LATINA.

AND SO WHEN YOU START TAKING AWAY OPPORTUNITIES FOR LATINA LAWYERS WHO ALREADY HAVE PROBLEMS GETTING INTO PLACES OF POWER, THEN THERE IS HARM.

AND I THINK THE BIGGER QUESTION ABOUT WELL, THIS DOESN'T HARM THE COMMUNITY, I'M LIKE IT DOES.

BECAUSE NOT ONLY DOES IT CREATE THIS FALSE PERCEPTION ABOUT HOW LATINOS ARE VIEWED, IT ALSO GIVES SORT OF, I THINK, THE WHITE POWER STRUCTURE AN OUT TO BE LIKE YOU KNOW WHAT, THIS IS GOING TO,-- WE DON'T HAVE TO WORRY-- SO THEN WE'RE CONTINUING TO FIGHT FOR REPRESENTATION, FIGHT FOR THE CRUMBS, FIGHT FOR THE SEAT AT THE TABLE.

AND SO THE EXAMPLES WHERE WE CAN HAVE THAT ACCESS TO POWER WHEN OTHER PEOPLE ARE NOT LATINO OR NOT MUCH COLOR COMING AND TAKING AWAY FROM US, THEN IT IS JUST A LOST OPPORTUNITY.

I KNOW SO MANY LATINA LAWYERS WHO TOLD ME THAT THEY JUST FELT HURT, AND IGNORED WITH THIS.

AND I THINK IT'S MORE SERIOUS AND I DO THINK IT IS SOMETHING THAT I AM GLAD WE ARE TALKING MORE ABOUT IT.

SO BUT THAT IS A CLEAR EXAMPLE OF HARM.

CUZ IT HAPPENED.

IT IMPACTED LATINA LAWYERS AND I KNOW THAT FOR A FACT.

>> JUAN, IN YOUR ARENA IN THE CORPORATE SPACES, YOU'VE SEEN IT BE HARMFUL.

>> YEAH, ACTUALLY WHAT COMES TO MIND IS IN THE SO CALLED SUPPLIER DIVERSITY SPACE OF OPPORTUNITIES FOR MINORITY, BUSINESS ENTERPRISES, THERE IS A REASON WHY THERE IS A CERTIFICATION PROCESS FOR WOMEN-OWNED BUSINESSES, MINORITY OWNED BUSINESSES, LGBT AND OTHERS TO BE CERTIFIED, BECAUSE PRIOR TO THAT, THERE WERE COMPANIES THAT WERE TAKING ADVANTAGE AND TAKING UP THAT OPPORTUNITY FOR A MONTH, DIVERSE SUPPLIERS BY CLAIMING TO BE, AND MAYBE THEY WOULD HAVE ONE OR TWO INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE DIVERSE AND JUST THERE TO GET ACCESS TO THAT CONTRACT.

SO THERE WAS A REASON WHY MANY ORGANIZATIONS PUT OUT THE PROCESS SO THERE COULD BE MORE OPPORTUNITY FOR MINORITY BUSINESS ENTERPRISES TO BID ON CONTRACTS.

AND IT IS A PAINFUL EXERCISE FOR MANY TO GO THROUGH, TO BE CERTIFIED BUT IT WAS NECESSARY BECAUSE THERE WERE INSTANCES OF COMPANIES THAT WERE NOT-- WE ALREADY KNOW THAT THERE IS LIMITED OPPORTUNITY TO BEGIN WITH, SO THAT IS NOT WHAT COMES TO MIND IN THE CORPORATE SETTING AS TO WHY WE NEED TO BE VERY INTENTIONAL ABOUT HOW WE GO ABOUT THIS, AND THERE, THAT IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF CULTURAL APPROPRIATION.

>> EDWARDS, SAME QUESTION TO YOU, HOW IS IT HARMFUL?

>> I THINK IN GENERAL CULTURAL APPROPRIATION PUTS SOMEONE INTO A PLACE WHERE THEY LOOK LIKE THEY'RE COMING FROM A PLACE OF AUTHORITY BECAUSE IT LOOKS LIKE THEY HAVE COME FROM THAT CULTURE IN SOME WAYS, SLIP OR FORM.

HAVE I A PERSONAL STORY IN PARTICULAR, IN ADDITION TO WHAT I WAS SPROA DUECED AS, I TEACH AT HARVARD UNIVERSITY FOR MARSHAL ART ITS, IT IS ONE OF THE ARENAS WHERE CULTURAL APPROPRIATION HAS OCCURRED.

BOTH IN HOLLYWOOD AND LOCALLY, THE GENTLEMAN WHO STUDIED IN SCHOOL, IS HE NOW TEACHING IN ANOTHER STATE.

AND HE EARNED HIS LIVING DOING CHINESE WELLNESS HEALING, SO MOST PEOPLE SEE HIM, BUT RECENTLY WE FOUND HIM ONLINE SPOWTING ABOUT KUNG FLU, WITH YOU HAN VIRUS AND STUFF LIKE THAT-- WUHAN VIRUS SO SOMEONE?

A POSITION OF POWER, LOOKING LIKE HE IS FOR THE CULTURE IS SPREADING BAD REQUIREMENTS ABOUT THE CULTURE.

SO THAT IS WHERE CULTURAL APPROPRIATION IS HARMFUL.

>> NOW HERE IS A QUESTION THAT ALL OF YOU CAN APPRECIATE.

IS IT OKAY I WANT YOU TO START OFF-- IS IT FOR ONE ETHNIC GROUP TO CULTURALLY APPROPRIATE SOMEONE ELSE AND ANOTHER ETHNIC TBROWP.

>> I THINK THAT IS STILL PROBLEMATIC WHEN IT COMES BACK TO THE DECISION WHETHER TO UNDERSTAND WHEN THEY DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT, WHETHER IT IS PREESHES OF APPROPRIATION, I KNOW FOR EXAMPLE, IN JAPAN THERE IS A TIME PERIOD WHERE THERE IS A LOT OF ADOPTION OF AFRICAN-AMERICAN CULTURE.

THEY WERE OBSESSED WITH RAPPERS, LIKE DRESSING LIKE THE RAPPERS WERE DRESSING.

IT COMES DOWN TO WHETHER THEY ARE USING THAT TO TAKE AWAY FROM THE MUSIC SCENE OR WHETHER THEY ARE USING THAT BECAUSE THEY REALLY LOVE RAPPERS.

AND I DON'T PARTICULARLY HAVE A PERSONAL OPINION ABOUT THIS BECAUSE I ONLY KNOW SO MUCH ABOUT CULTURE IN JAPAN.

BUT THAT WAS JUST AN EXAMPLE WHERE I SAW THAT HAPPEN.

BUT THEN ON TOP OF THAT, THERE IS, YOU KNOW, ALSO A LOT OF EVEN WITHIN ASIAN CULTURES, A LOT OF DIVISIONS AMONG ETHNICITIES, SO IF YOU GO TO CHINATOWN YOU FIND A LOT OF JAPANESE RESTAURANTS OPENED BY CHINESE OWNERS OR YOU KNOW, KOREAN OWNERS.

SO THEN THE QUESTION IS WHETHER THEY'RE SELLING THEIR FOOD OFF AS AUTHENTIC JAPANESE FOOD, AND THEN IF THEY ARE DOING THAT, ARE THEY CASTING THE WRONG IDEA OF WHAT JAPANESE CULTURE PUTS OUT THERE IN TERMS OF FOOD, AND I MEAN ANOTHER EXAMPLE WHICH UNFORTUNATELY WAS AGAIN CAUCASION AN ASIAN CULTURE, IN NEW YORK, THERE WERE A STRING OF RESTAURANTS.

AND EACH CALLED LUCKY, ONE OF THEM IS OPENED BY GORDON RAMSEY.

LUCKY CAT.

AND SO THERE IS AN OUTCRY ABOUT THAT BECAUSE THEY WERE ALL BASICALLY SAYING THAT ASIAN, CHIEB EASE FOOD IN PARTICULAR, WASN'T HEALTHY, WAS DIRTY AND THAT WAS SORT OF THEIR SELLING, SO THAT IS THE OUTCOME.

>> SUSAN.

>> I THINK THAT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT EDWARD POINTED OUT THAT IS REALLY IMPORTANT TO THINK ABOUT IS POWER AND VOICE.

AND I THINK WHEN PEOPLE THINK ABOUT WHY IS IT HARMFUL, IT IS THAT WE HAVE A LOT OF CONVERSATION AROUND CULTURE IN OUR DIALOGUE RIGHT NOW.

AND WHOSE VOICE GETS TO REALLY SPEAK FOR A COMMUNITY, WHO GETS TO TAKE UP THAT SPACE.

AND SO AS WE THINK ABOUT FOR INSTANCE THE BLACK COMMUNITY, HIP-HOP CULTURAL, IT IS ALL AROUND THE WORLD AND WE SEE MANY WAYS THAT CULTURES TAKE THAT ON BOARD AND MAKE IT THEIR OWN.

AND WE SEE THE WAY THAT PEOPLE APPRECIATE LIKE DEEPLY APPRECIATE THE STRUGGLE AND THE HISTORY OF CULTURES, CROSS CULTURALLY AND I THINK THAT IS ALWAYS REALLY IMPORTANT TO DO BECAUSE THAT IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT MAKES IT REALLY RICH, AND ENGAGING TO ENGAGE WITH OTHER PEOPLE, IS TO LEARN MORE ABOUT THEM.

AND TO LEARN MORE ABOUT HOW THEY EXPERIENCE THE WORLD.

I THINK THE LINE IS ARE YOU TRADING IN ON STEREOTYPES OF THAT CULTURE, ARE YOU TRADING IN AND LOOKING AT THEM THROUGH A WHITE GAZE OR ARE YOU REALLY APPRECIATING THAT CULTURE.

WE CAN THINK ABOUT HIP-HOP GROUPS LIKE THE WUTANG CLAN S THAT APPROPRIATION OR APPRECIATION.

AND HOW DO WE BEGIN TO KIND OF WORK THAT OUT.

I THINK IT CHANGES OVER TIME.

THERE IS A LOT OF CROSSOVER LIKE I SAID PARTICULARLY IN HIP-HOP, HIP-HOP SAMPLES CULTURE FROM ALL AROUND THE WORLD AND THERE ARE LOTS OF EXAMPLES ABOUT THAT, BUT AS PEOPLE ARE REALLY WANTING TO HAVE MORE AUTHENTIC VOICE WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE MAKE SPACE FOR THOSE AUTHENTIC VOICES AND NOT TAKING UP AIR TIME FROM OTHER CULTURES EVEN IF THEY ARE OTHER MARGINALIZED CULTURES.

>> SO HERE IS THE DEAL.

SO MANY PEOPLE KNOW WHAT THEY KNOW ABOUT A CULTURE ONLY THROUGH THE CERTIFICATE STEREOTYPES.

SO THEY THINK THEY ARE BEING APPRECIATIVE OF OR RECOGNIZING THE CULTURE BECAUSE THEY ONLY KNOW THE STEREOTYPES.

SO WHAT DO YOU DO WITH THAT?

HOW DO YOU UNTANGLE THAT SO THAT THERE IS THE APPRECIATION PIECE COMES WITH AN INTENT AND UNDERSTANDING THAT THEY'RE ACTUALLY IS A CULTURE ATTACHED TO IT.

AND WHAT YOU HAVE THOUGHT TO BE CULTURE IS ACTUALLY STEREOTYPE.

>> I MEAN WE ALL HAVE INFORMATION AT OUR FINGER TIPS RIGHT NOW, SO THE FIRST THING IS TO KIND OF GO DOWN THE RABBIT HOLE.

AS YOU SAID, CINQO DE MAYO THIS WEEK, AND SO YOU KNOW, I SAW LOTS OF PEOPLE POSTING INFORMATION ABOUT WHY YOU SHOULD THINK ABOUT IT A LITTLE DIFFERENTLY THAN YOU HAVE.

SO IF PEOPLE WANT TO APPRECIATE CULTURE, THAT INFORMATION IS OUT THERE.

AND AVAILABLE.

THERE ARE LOTS OF PEOPLE THAT ARE ONLINE OR IN THE REAL WORLD, HOSTING EVENTS AND OPPORTUNITIES FOR PEOPLE TO CONNECT TO A CULTURE.

SO IF YOU WANT TO KNOW MORE ABOUT A CULTURE, GO AND VISIT IT, WHETHER IT IS DIGITALLY OR IN PERSON AND LEARN.

GO AS SOMEBODY THAT IS CULTURALLY HUMBLE AND OPEN TO HEARING AND LISTENING BEFORE YOU JUST TRADE IN ON THOSE STEREOTYPES.

AND IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANY ENGAGEMENT OF PEOPLE OF A DIFFERENT BACKGROUND, IT MIGHT BE A REALLY GOOD OPPORTUNITY TO EDUCATE YOURSELF.

THE INFORMATION IS OUT THERE.

BUT AS EVERYONE SAID IT IS ABOUT INTENT.

DO YOU REALLY INTEND TO BE RESPECTFUL, IF SO THAN DO YOUR WORK.

>> JUAN, YOU KNOW I HAVE A FAVORITE STATEMENT WHICH IS THE ROAD TO HELL IS PAVEED WITH GOOD INTENTIONS, SO I'M JUST GOING TO PUT THAT OUT THERE, AND ASK HOW DO YOU GET, WHAT DO YOU DO WITH PEOPLE WHO HAVE ACCEPTED THE STEREOTYPE AS THE CULTURE?

>> YEAH, SO WHENEVER PEOPLE ASK ME WHERE I AM FROM AND I SAY I'M FROM COLOMBIA, OFTEN WHAT I GET IS OH, HAVE YOU SEEN NARCOS ON NETFLIX.

>> OH WOW.

>> AND IT IS JUST EXPLAINS THE STEREOTYPE OF A COUNTRY THAT HAD A STRUG ELEVATOR YEARS AGO WITH NARCOS AND ALL THAT BUT THE COUNTRY HAS SO MUCH MORE TO OFFER.

AND AS A WAY FOR PEOPLE TO, I GUESS MAKE A CONNECTION, IN AN ODD WAY.

AND SO I POLITELY EDUCATE THEM ON OTHER ASPECTS OF THE COUNTRY.

THE PEOPLE, THE CULTURE, THE MUSIC, YOU KNOW, THE COFFEE, THE EMERALDS, THE MANY GREAT THINGS ABOUT COLOMBIA THAT MOST PEOPLE JUST DON'T KNOW ABOUT.

AND SO THAT IS A VERY CLEAR SORT OF INTERACTION THAT I GET FROM PEOPLE WHO I GUESS ARE WELL INTENDED AND WANT TO MAKE THAT DECISION BECAUSE THEY'VE SEEN SOMETHING ABOUT COLOMBIA ON NETFLIX.

A SHOW THAT IS ACTUALLY THE MAIN ACTOR IS NOT EVEN FROM COLOMBIA.

HE HAS A TERRIBLE COLOMBIAN ACCENT.

>> I DIDN'T KNOW THAT.

>> SO I COULDN'T EVEN WATCH IT BECAUSE IT WAS SO BAD T WAS LIKE WATCHING SOMEONE TRYING TO DO A REALLY BAD BOSTON ACCENT ACCENT, THAT IS HOW BAD IT WAS.

SO I TAKE THE OPPORTUNITY, I USED TO GET UPSET, AND NOW I SEE IT AS AN INVITATION TO SHARE MORE ABOUT THE COUNTRY.

AND ACTUALLY ONE OF THOSE INTERAKS FROM A FEW YEARS AGO TURNED THAT SOMEONE WANTING TO COME VISIT AND FELL IN LOVE WITH THE COUNTRY, THE PEOPLE, THE MUSIC, THE FOOD.

SO YOU KNOW, THERE IS A FINE LINE THERE WHERE SOME PEOPLE ARE JUST IGNORANT.

AND YOU CAN IGNORE THEM.

AND BUT OTHERS ARE, THEY WANT TO HAVE A WINDOW INTO LEARNING MORE.

THEY JUST APPROACH IT IN THE WRONG WAY.

>> EDWARD, WOULD YOU ADD TO THAT?

>> YEAH, I THINK IN ADDITION TO URGING PEOPLE TO GO EDUCATE THEMSELVES, I THINK YOU NEED TO TAKE A LOOK AT THE INSTITUTIONS THAT PER SPET YAIT THE STEREOTYPES SO PEOPLE HAVE MORE OPPORTUNITY IN LEARNING OF OTHER CULTURES, THE TWO HAVE I IN MIND IS HOLY WARD, THERE IS A LOT OF-- HOLLYWOOD, THERE IS A LOT OF CULTURAL APPROPRIATION WHERE THEY CAST ROLES FROM OTHER CULTURES, NOT WITH ACTORS FROM THERE, CRAZY RICH ASIANS THEY HAD AN ALL ASIAN CAST BUT IT WAS A NARROW LENS OF ASIAN CULTURE.

FOR EXAMPLE, SOME OF THE MARVEL MOVIES LIKE DR.

STRANGE WHERE THEY CAST WHAT COULD HAVE BEEN ASIAN ROLE AS AN IRISH PERSON.

AND USED THAT IRISH PERSON TO BASICALLY TELL THE STORY OF NEPALESE CULTURE AND MARTIAL ARTS, SO IT WAS NOT THE GREATEST WAY OF TELLING THE STORY ABOUT THE CULTURE.

AND THEN ALSO I JUST RECALL GROWING UP, IN WORLD HISTORY WHAT WE LEARNED ABOUT ASIA WAS OPIUM WAR, COMMUNISTS, VIETNAM WAR, THERE WAS VERY LITTLE TALK ABOUT THE BENEFITS THAT CAME FROM OTHER CULTURES, MOSTLY THE NEGATIVE INTERACTIONS BETWEEN AMERICA AND THOSE CULTURES.

>> BUT THAT IS A GOOD PLACE TO LEAVE, TO END OUR DISCUSSION RIGHT NOW.

AND I THANK YOU FOR THAT ILLUMINATION, FOR ALL OF YOU TO ILLUSTRATE VERY CLEARLY WHAT CULTURE APPROPRIATION AND WHAT CULTURE APPRECIATION IS.

BUT THAT IS THE END OF OUR BROADCAST AND THE END OF OUR SHOW, THANKS TO ALL OF OUR GUESTS AND THANK YOU FOR JOINING US, STAY WITH US AS WE CONTINUE OUR CONVERSATION ON FACEBOOK AND TWITTER.