♪ (heroic music) ♪ ♪ ♪ - Hello and welcome to Comic Culture.

I'm Terence Dollard, a professor in the Department of Mass Communication at the University of North Carolina at Pembroke.

My guest today is Regine Sawyer.

Regine, welcome to Comic Culture.

- Thank you for having me.

- Now Regine, you are the curator of a new exhibit at the, I guess, Flushing Town Hall called Comics in the City.

Can you tell us a little bit about that exhibit?

- Sure.

So Comics in the City, Sequential Art Is, is my second art show at Flushing Town Hall in Queens, New York.

Sequential Art Is celebrates the artistry of comics, but specifically from the lens of what is sequential art to artists?

What does it mean to them?

Because for every artist, it can mean something differently.

And so all the art pieces reflect how artists feel about sequential art and what it means to them.

- Sequential art is this great playground for an artist, for a storyteller, because there's, a lot of people think of comics as a genre rather than a medium to tell interesting stories.

I think of comics in the way of maybe like a Jack Kirby laying out a page of the Fantastic Four, or perhaps the way Charles Schultz did it in Peanuts in the newspaper.

So as somebody who's looking at different styles, different artists, different approaches, what strikes you as the difference between what we normally would expect and what someone is interpreting?

- Well, it's about seeing things in sequence, right?

That's a part of the term, sequential art.

So seeing things in sequence, whether it's one, two, three, four, or even one, four, two, three.

It's about, in terms of the artist, what that means to them as they're seeing a story come to fruition as they're drawing it.

So for storyboards, for example, you'll absolutely see everything, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven.

Everything is direct.

But for a comic book artist, the sequence can absolutely be not as direct.

For example, we have an art piece called Chicken Worshipper, and you have all of these individual characters on a page.

There are no panels on the page, but you have all these different characters essentially trying to grab and reach this chicken.

And through all of the different, like the facial expressions, the body language, there is sequence to that in terms of them trying to grab this chicken.

So when I saw that piece, when I was looking through submissions, I said, "That's sequential art."

And I wanted to know more about that piece and that artist, and that's one of the reasons why I accepted it.

So it's just not as cut and dry as people think it is.

- It's gotta be fun.

The one thing that I love about this show is that I get to meet creators of all different styles, all different approaches to comics.

So as somebody who is going through these submissions and seeing, I guess, learning about new approaches to this, how does that sort of refresh your love of comics?

- Oh my goodness.

Well, I mean, I love comics regardless, you know?

But what it does is it just shows what other people think and feel about it.

And that's the important part of the art show.

It's asking the guests as they're coming in and ingesting the work, what they think sequential art is, as well as how they're receiving what they believe the artist thinks sequential art is.

And that alone energizes me because folks are looking at it in a unique perspective.

- It's interesting that you are at the Flushing Town Hall, which is in Queens, New York, one of the five boroughs.

So, you know, a lot of people think of Manhattan as being the home of the superheroes, but, you know, Spider Man's from Queens.

So what is it about Queens that makes comics, you know, the right location, Queens and comics going so well together?

- Well, I think it's just overall New York.

The mainstream comics was born in the Bronx.

And a lot of folks don't know that.

It was born in the Bronx.

So I think each borough has a unique twist on it.

I mean, for me, I'm a Queens girl, so I'm a little bit partial.

I think that Queens brings sort of a grounding to comics.

When I think of Spider Man, for example, I think of Peter Parker, who's just a regular school kid living with his aunt and uncle, and they're just trying to make ends meet.

It just tells a really good, like, working class story.

And it's reflective of what Queens is and has been.

And I think that's what's unique about Queens and what it brings to comics.

Peter Parker definitely exemplifies that.

- It's one of those things, when we think about comics, again, we're a lot of times thinking of those four-color heroes, but there's a lot of that great black and white work.

And that was one of the things I saw when I was looking at some of the pieces in the exhibit.

So are you looking for a blend where it may be something that is a color art piece, maybe it's something that's just pen and ink, or are you looking maybe even for something that is digital that, for the first time, would be put into print because it was never actually on paper in the first place?

- Well, I was looking for all forms of comic book creation.

I mean, that included black and whites, that included colors, that included pencils.

There are a few pencil pieces in the show.

I wanted to see all the layers of comics.

I also even wanted some writers to send in some scripts.

I had put that in the submission, but no writer did.

So I'm hoping for the next show, we'll be able to have a writer have a script that's all edited to the gods so folks can see the process of that.

But when it comes to the art, I really wanted folks to see the different processes, from pencils to colors to lettered work.

I want them to see all the different ways comics are put together.

- And before we started our conversation here, we talked a little bit, and we talked about how we both got our love of comics from reading the funnies in the newspaper.

So I'm wondering, as somebody who is also from the New York area, as you are, what was it, was it the Daily News, was it the Post?

When you're reading those comics, is it something where it's like a family experience where you're sitting down and maybe mom's reading them to you or is this just something where you should be doing your homework, but you're gonna just start diving into those comics?

- I was four years old and my father used to read the Sunday Funnies to me.

We would read them cover to cover.

It was the Daily News.

I made him read everything from Cathy, which he asked me, "Why do I wanna know about this depressed 35-year-old woman?"

to Curtis, to whatever was in the funnies, we read it.

That was our pastime.

And it really was the gateway to my love of comic books and comic book creation.

- When you have that experience, it becomes more than just the characters.

It becomes the memory, it becomes the family lore.

I know in my family, I'll still talk to my brother about Mary Worth or my sister will send me the latest sad story from Mutz or something like that.

So it becomes this kind of family thing.

So when you do go back home and see family, are you still saying, "Hey, did you see what happened in Dick Tracy today?"

- Well, not so much when it comes to the newspapers and the funnies, but my brother is a huge MCU, DCU fan.

So I get all the text messages.

I get all the links to YouTube.

And whatever article he's read, and he's still very, he's my older brother.

He's also helped me get into comics, into mainstream comics.

So he's very, very passionate about the different things that are happening in the comic book industry in that way.

So that's how I keep up with my family, more so through the medium of movies and TV shows.

- Now, if I'm not mistaken, you sort of always wanted to be a comics creator.

And I know that's what you do now in between, curating really interesting exhibits, but you are perhaps somebody who had a lot of inspiration and drive early on in life.

So is it the case where you were like maybe writing comics after reading Cathy?

- Well, what happened was, as I mentioned, my brother introduced me to mainstream comics.

And when he introduced me specifically to the X-Men, that's when my whole world officially changed.

And I started drawing my own characters.

I still have my sketchbooks.

I started writing stories.

And once I got into high school was when I really leaned into it.

I started writing heavily then and actually took some of those stories and got into college with them.

I didn't write comic book stories, but took some of the characters and just created prose from it.

And so comics just stayed with me through high school, through adulthood.

I didn't go to school to become a writer.

I went to school to become a chef.

That's another story for another day.

I have a culinary arts degree, (laughs) I have a culinary arts degree.

But once I left, I left school, I became a corporate food manager.

I realized I still love comics.

I'm still collecting, but it suddenly hit me.

And I was considering getting a secondary cartooning degree at the School of Visual Arts.

And I was chatting with a friend about it at a local comic book shop in Manhattan.

And a gentleman overheard me.

He himself had his own independent comic book company and said, "Hey, I'm really interested "in what you wanna do and what you have."

And after meeting him, I started working for his company.

I was his managing editor for a year.

And once being with him, I realized I can do this for myself.

'Cause I taught myself how to write comics, how to edit comics, how to edit art, how to take submissions, all of those things while I was with his company.

And in late 2007 was when I started Lock It Down Productions and I published my first comic in 2009.

- Again, what I love about comics is that it is this big community.

And the fact that, I know if I go back to Smithtown where I grew up and I go to Fourth World Comics, the owner is gonna recognize me, his son is gonna recognize me, and we're gonna have a great time reminiscing about comics.

And it seems that that is that same community for you when you go to your comic shop and the fact that you were able to make that connection with somebody else who probably has his own relationship with comic shops here and there.

So it's great that there's this community that we can all kind of tap into.

And I like how you just subtly threw it in there.

I started my own company, Lock It Down Productions.

So how do you sort of go from being a managing editor to taking the leap?

I'm assuming at some point you have to say, "Well, I can be this executive chef "or I can be someone who makes comics, "but maybe I can't do both."

So is it something where you have to make this leap of faith as well?

- Well, I did both.

(laughs) I did both.

Well, at the end of the day, I did it for me because I figured, you only live once and let me live this life to the fullest as much as I can.

And part of that was trying to see if I could make it in comics.

So being a managing editor, I was teaching myself how to do a lot of different things 'cause there was a lot of things he just let me just go off essentially and just figure it out.

So I went and did the research.

I read books about how to write comics.

I searched for comic book scripts and I also was transcribing his handwritten scripts.

So I was learning a lot about structure and technique as well as creativity.

As I mentioned, I received scholarships to college through my writing.

So I already knew how to write well.

I also was a camp fellow for the National Book Foundation for two years.

So I had the gift, but it was about structure.

It was about technique.

So I just delved into the research and realized, oh, I can do this.

I can publish this.

It'll be fine.

It'll work out.

And yeah, like I said, in 2009, I self-published my first comic.

- Was this also you doing the art or were you partnering up with someone?

- I was hiring artists.

I took submissions.

I put up ads all over the internet and I've received hundreds.

When I say hundreds, hundreds of submissions from people.

And I was able to whittle it down to a few folks and worked with these folks over several different properties that I have.

- You know, as somebody who knows how to write, knows how to create beautiful descriptions for a reader who might be reading a short story or a novel, how difficult is it for you to say, I'm gonna have to cut all that out and just explain it in a way that an artist can visualize it and I can trust their gift to bring it to life the way I envision it?

- It was trial and error.

It really was.

It really was trial and error.

I mean, I wrote a lot of scripts, started working with artists and started also, speaking of community, delving into the community of comics, talking to other writers and creators and having people look at my scripts and for them to say, "Virginia, this is too much."

Like, this is too much, this is too much text.

And I wanna say by the time I got to like my fourth book, 'cause I was writing a lot of scripts at the time, I just wanted to write them back to back.

I was able to do that.

I was able to, I just started censoring myself.

I started censoring, I don't wanna say censoring myself, but just knowing when to stop, knowing where to cut.

And I went back to the old scripts, cut them, and then continued on that path.

So now it's interesting when I work with artists and I have some artists that will say to me, "Oh my God, I love your scripts, you're so amazing.

"Like, you're so good, you're so good."

And that's such a compliment.

And then I have other artists who will say, "I'm not used to this freedom.

"Like, I'm not used to it.

"I don't know what to do with this."

And so I'll say like, "Well, if you want me to give you more instruction, I will."

And these are seasoned people.

These are not brand new folks.

But I'll go into the script and maybe add a little bit more 'cause at the end of the day, they have to write it.

So I wanna make it legible and I want them to feel comfortable with the work that needs to be done.

So that's how I do it.

I know how to cut myself off.

- We hear a lot about, like let's say Alan Moore, who's going to give really tight thumbnails of how he thinks every page should go.

Or somebody as loose as, let's say, Stan Lee, who would have a conference call with someone and just say, "Okay, come back in a month with those pages."

So are you doing something sort of along the lines of you're breaking the page down panel by panel or are you kind of saying, "This is what's going to happen "and this is maybe some of the talking points," and let the artist kind of interpret it that way?

- I do do a full script.

I do do a panel breakdown.

But I leave it up to them how it's going to look.

So if they cut out a panel, it's fine.

If they decide for it to be a splash page with an insert panel or two, that's fine.

But I at least give them the overview of what I'm seeing as the writer.

But I just try to make sure that I don't put down more than five panels on a page.

Every once in a while, there's a sixth one.

And I know at the end of the day, that artist is going to figure it out and make it look good.

So if I messed up, they'll fix it up for me.

- You mentioned that you showed your work to other comic professionals.

And the one thing I've learned from doing this show, many things that I've learned from doing this show, but one in particular is the kindness of the comic community.

How the professionals, for 99.9% of the people that I've met, they've all been willing to say, "Let me see what you're doing.

"Let me offer you some suggestions."

And sometimes the criticism might be a little like, "No, you need to do this, this, and this."

But it's never said out of spite.

It's always said out of, "This is a professional "talking to a professional."

So as you're kind of dealing with being the new writer at the time, getting this feedback from a comic professional, is it something where perhaps you've got that resistance because, "No, I know what I've done is good."

Or are you taking the approach of the scholar who is going to say, "I'm going to lean back, listen, "and then put the information together "and see what makes the most sense to me."

- I think initially, I was just annoyed that I was gonna have to fix it.

(laughing) It's like you understand that someone is correct, but you're just trying to figure out, "Oh my God, I visualized it like this."

And I'm very much a visual person.

Like I write cinematically.

So I said, "Okay, how can I put cinema on this page "that isn't 20 panels?"

I had to work that out.

And once I worked that out, after I got the critique, I went and I fixed it and then went back and said, "Okay, read this.

"Let me know if it looks better "and give me a thumbs up, thumbs down.

"Do I have to go back?"

And so it was great to get the thumbs up.

And then I just continued on along that vein.

I just, like I said earlier, like I just went backwards, looked at the old scripts.

And then as I was writing new scripts, I just started editing myself.

Like that's not necessary.

That's not necessary.

Three panels, that's it.

Two panels, that's it.

Four panels, that's it.

- And I'm imagining over the years working with different artistic partners, you've developed a relationship with some of them where they can, you feel that they can just get something that you're doing and vice versa.

So when you are working on a project, is it a lot of talk up front about what you envision or is it something where I'm just gonna send it to you 'cause I know you're gonna do a great job and then they can call you back and say, "Oh, I've got an idea about this and that."

- Basically I just send it to them.

I send it to them and see what they say about it.

See if they, number one, if they like it.

And two, if it's something that they can work with.

And if there's any questions or any conversation that either one of us wanna have, we just have it.

I had the absolute pleasure of working with Aletha E. Martinez who was a veteran of 20 plus years on my first DC Comics project back in, what was it?

2021?

I think 2020 or late 2020.

And I sent her my script and she said, "Oh, this is great, I got this."

Like she didn't ask me anything else.

She just ran with it like, "I love your scripts, I love the way you write."

I said, "Thank you."

And she just did it.

And that made me feel good.

That let me know, like that validated me.

Like, okay, I've come a long way.

She didn't even have to blink, she just did it.

She didn't have to ask me any questions.

So that felt really good.

- You're in New York and around the time that we're taping this, New York Comic-Con just has happened.

So how important is a convention for you as maybe meeting people who enjoy your work, but also maybe meeting an artist who you wanna work with?

- My going to conventions is a little bit different compared to other creators, because I'm the founder of Women in Comics Collective International.

When I go, like I go in the capacity of both of creative and the founder of this organization.

What ends up happening is people come to me, which is really weird to me.

It's really weird as a long time comic book creative and fan, it's still a bit weird.

I don't have to go looking for people.

Like oftentimes they come to me or I walk through artist alley and someone's screaming my name.

So that's the beauty of it.

That is the beauty of it.

But publishers may not know me as much.

So for San Diego Comic-Con, for example, I went and I chatted with some publishers and editors that I hadn't met at previous shows and just chatted with them about the possibility of working with them and so forth.

So that's one of the things that I will do.

I'll go to a booth and say hello and introduce myself.

And now it's a little bit easier 'cause I have an Eisner Award.

So when I say I have an Eisner Award, they definitely wanna know more about me.

So that's interesting.

It's a little bit different than other folks.

- You've segued into two things that I was planning on talking about.

Your Eisner Award and the founding of Women in Comics.

Tell us about Women in Comics.

It seems like based on the name, it's about Women in Comics, but it probably has a lot more to it than that.

- Women in Comics is a organization, it's WINC for short, is an organization that supports women and gender non-conforming folks of color working in the comic book industry.

And we do that by hosting professional and educational events like panel discussions, workshops, art shows, live model drawing events.

We also have a conference here in New York City.

The organization has been around, oh my goodness, over 13 years.

Next year will be our 14th year.

And last year we received Bob Clampett Humanitarian Award at the Eisners.

That was a shocker and a joy.

(laughs) And a joy.

- And I mean, first off, anytime that you win a major award, it's gotta be rewarding because you are, you're doing something because you have a passion for it and someone is recognizing that impact that you're making.

So in the almost 14 years of Women in Comics, you're talking about these panels, these workshops.

Have you seen some of the people who started with you maybe becoming professionals and moving on and starting their own IP and kind of getting their foot in the door?

- Yes.

We've assisted with helping more people than I can count in working in the comic book industry and starting their careers.

It's a joy to see some folks producing their own work, whether it's self-publishing it or working for other companies.

And it's also working with veterans who thought that they only could get so far in the industry and they felt that Women in Comics revived their career.

It's just been a joy.

It's been an absolute joy just to see the ways in which we've helped people and also ourselves.

I mean, definitely starting this organization has helped me as a creative person.

But it's really wonderful to see how it's evolved and the impact it has been on the industry.

- And when you win an Eisner Award, obviously it's the ultimate feather in your cap in the comic industry.

So I'm imagining as somebody, are you walking down the street with it or is this just something that people, they're aware because it is that prestigious, it's like the Academy Awards of Comics?

- I should, I should have a necklace made out of it.

I really, really should.

Well, the funny thing is being recognized for it specifically because I did do a very emotional speech.

And so to walk around the show and say, "Hey, you were that woman from last year," has been really funny to say the least.

- Well, they are telling us that we have just a few minutes left in our conversation.

What I really wanna do is connect the audience watching with where they can find out more about you, your work, Women in Comics, and about maybe some upcoming art shows.

So where can they find you on the web?

- You can find me at lockitdown, L-O-C-K-E-T-T-D-O-W-N on Blue Sky.

Also on Instagram is Lock It Down Official.

You can find me there.

Also for Women in Comics, it's www.womenincomicscollective.org.

And you can learn all about the organization, the next events that we're doing, curating.

In terms of any events that I'm personally doing, I would say just check my social media.

- Well, Regine, they are telling me that we're out of time.

I wanna thank you so much for taking time out of your schedule to talk with me today.

It's been a great conversation.

- Thank you, I had a wonderful time.

Appreciate you.

- And I'd like to thank everyone at home for watching Comic Culture.

We'll see you again soon.

(heroic music) ♪ ♪ - Comic Culture is a production of the Department of Mass Communication at the University of North Carolina at Pembroke, giving broadcasting majors professional experience and onscreen credit before they graduate.

♪ - Only at UNC Pembroke can you find what makes you special.

- We are mission focused, service minded, and grounded in our unique heritage.

- And most importantly, you would find who you are, what you love, and who you want to become.

- With the NC Promise tuition plan, it's all more affordable than you might think.

- Discover your passions.

- It's all at your fingertips to explore, and it starts right here at UNC Pembroke.