>> From WXXI News.

This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Our connection this hour was made in May of 2002, when the state of Maine became the first U.S.

state to make an official effort to give students access to the internet, a statewide program made laptops available to certain grade levels.

Then Governor Angus King, who was excited about the new World Wide Web, was eager to give students opportunities to use it.

According to NPR.

Governor King said, quote, go into history class and the teacher says, open your computer.

We're going to roam, and we're going to watch an archeologist explore the catacombs.

This morning in real time.

King concluded by saying, quote, what a learning tool the internet is.

End quote.

Many states followed Maine's lead, and by 2024, the United States had spent $30 billion on laptops and tablets in schools.

That's according to Fortune.com.

And what has been the outcome?

Well, if you talk to psychologists and a lot of experts in the field of learning, the tech has done in many cases the opposite of empowering students.

It has made Gen Z less cognitively capable than previous generations.

In written testimony for the U.S.

Senate Committee on Commerce, Science and Transportation, neuroscientist Jared Kuhn Horvath said that Gen Z is the first generation in modern history to score lower on standardized tests than the previous one.

Research shows that the drop in test scores has a direct correlation to an increase in screen time.

Now, let's be clear.

That is not to say that technology is only going to be bad, but what is the most effective way to use it?

And what is there to say about the role of more traditional education models like hands on activities, field trips, other types of experiential learning?

Can students love learning again?

And if they don't, how can teachers reignite a passion for education?

The leaders of a local program offered by the Rochester Education Foundation say they believe they've got some of the answers.

And this hour we're talking about the Smile program and how organizers say it is boosting students Stem skills and their passion for learning without just outsourcing their thinking to tech.

And I'd like to welcome our guest this hour, the executive director of the Rochester Education Foundation is Amy Stein.

Welcome back to the program.

Nice to see you.

>> Thanks for having us.

>> Sean Coffey is here, doctor coffee is executive director of science and the Department of Teaching and Learning in the Rochester City School District.

Welcome, Sean.

Thank you.

Across the table.

Hello, Ryan Clair.

Principal of Dr.

David and Ruth Anderson Academy school.

That school number 16 in the RCSD.

Welcome.

Thanks for being here.

>> Glad to be here.

>> And a fifth grade student at school 16 is Harmony Davis.

This is a pretty cool field trip for you today, I think.

Harmony, how are you?

>> Good.

>> It's great to have you.

Pretty good student there.

>> One of the best.

>> One of the best.

So we're going to be talking about what, a fifth grade student, how fifth graders see this.

We're going to talk about how the educators in the room see this issue.

but I want to start just by making sure everyone knows the roles here and Amy Stein the Rochester Education Foundation.

It's been around a long time.

But for people who still don't know the mission, what's the elevator pitch?

What do you do?

>> So we have been in existence since 2005, and the Rochester Education Foundation provides programs and resources to improve learning and success for Rochester City students.

>> And Sean, as the Executive Director of Science and the Department of Teaching and Learning for the RCSD.

What is your Herculean task?

What do you have to do?

>> So we are responsible.

My department.

There's more than one of me and my team.

But our primary charge is to ensure that every kid has a really rich science experience.

K through 12, that is aligned to the New York State Science Learning standards.

beyond that, we try to ensure that that happens through professional learning for teachers.

we're in classrooms with students ensuring everybody's got supplies that they need.

and all things science.

>> How many schools is smile in Amy?

>> Smile is in every single one of the 25 elementary schools in the RCSD, as well as the Rochester International Academy.

>> Where could it go if let let's say you had more funding.

I can't do any fundraising for you, but everybody in the world needs more funding these days.

What do you want to do with this program?

>> Well, listen, this program is sensational.

The founder of the program is a gentleman named Dave Beck.

And he created this program 13 years ago.

And it started in one school, and it grew.

By the time he met me a few years ago it was a ten.

And now it is in all of the RCSD elementary schools.

And we want to keep it there and keep it there strong.

This program.

Evan is twofold.

It helps fund parent teacher organizations to give autonomy in our RCSD schools so that they can decide what's going to bring joy and love of learning into the school, as well as learning experiences that I'm sure Sean will talk about a bit that complement the Stem curriculum well.

>> So we're going to really talk about how smile works here.

And before the program began, we were talking to Harmony about some of the experiences that Harmony and classmates have had.

And it's going to be really fun to share what's been going on here, because whatever your idea of what's happening in schools, or if you're cynical about it, I think this could be a really curative kind of experience.

Hearing this.

Having said that, before we dive into that, let me just ask our guests in the room about some of that data that I was reading at the start of the hour.

I have a sister in law who's a teacher.

Her kids were grown up in schools around the time that everybody was starting to get laptops and tablets, and the idea for a while was, if you were going to be really in Stem, you know, every kid needed tech in the classroom.

Did Sean, did we overdo that?

I mean, what does the data tell you?

>> It's tough to say.

And I think that there's so many contextual variables that would impact, like how we tend to measure student success and usually through a state's lens that's done through test scores.

There's so many things that could impact a student's test scores.

what I look at is like, first and foremost, how do kids learn?

And the, the you know, the research on that is, you know, pretty forthcoming.

We know that kids, you know, construct a new knowledge from old knowledge.

They learn in a social context.

So they learn from one another.

They need to try new things.

They need to make sense of, you know, phenomena that they experience.

they need to be able to think about their own learning, and then they have to be able to confront misconceptions.

And so those mechanisms for how people learn that like that hasn't changed over time.

Right?

So introducing tech to it you know, can help them kind of confront some of those challenges in certain ways and probably layers on some additional challenges in that too.

but if we can kind of address how kids learn in those ways, you know, I think tech or no tech, we're going to be pushing the envelope for student thinking.

>> Yeah, I have my older son turns 14 at the end of this month, and I talk to him a lot about my fear of just take A.I., my fear of how A.I.

could affect his passion to learn things, and the temptation of how A.I.

could be used versus using it in a way that actually levels up your thinking.

And I want to be the idealist who says, give that tool to students and they will level up.

My fear is, you know, I'm not blaming the students.

I'm thinking about humanity.

And it's a tool that can allow you to shorten the amount of work that you've got to do.

And I wonder how you just briefly, do you see A.I.

as a as a benefit or a deterrent for student learning?

>> I tough to say right now.

It's so new.

I know that at the district level, we've been getting trained in A.I.

and trying to look for different ways to leverage it to really increase student learning, and at the same time, try to minimize some of those negative effects that you just mentioned.

I don't think we've got a firm answer on that.

We're still doing a lot of learning ourselves.

one thing I do think is interesting, we've looked a little bit at how secondary or post-secondary is using it.

So colleges and they've kind of recognized that there is no way to like, stop kids from using that.

So they might as well lean into it.

and so what I know I have a couple of friends who have kids who are in college and like, what those kids are doing is like, they'll go to a lecture they'll use A.I.

just to kind of generate a podcast of the lecture that they just heard so they can listen to it, like over and over again.

and, you know, leverage like co-constructed notes with one another, like study together that way where I think that the, you know, institutions have had a really hard time is in assessment because if you, you know, if you're asking a kid to write an essay, they could just generate it.

And it sounds like the A.I.

you know, detection you know, software hasn't been able to catch all that.

So many of the post-secondary buildings are now using.

they're just doing in-class assessment, no notes, no anything else.

So it's the only way they can truly get an idea of what kids can do in that moment.

>> what you probably can't do.

I'm sure you agree with this.

This is how I feel as a parent is you can't keep kids sort of bubbled away from it right now, or maybe ever, because it is going to be a part of life.

And probably the workplace and everything in the future.

So you can't just be a Luddite and say, no tech, no A.I., no nothing.

At the same time, you know, the old refrain was like, well, if you just learn to write code, you know, then you'll have a future.

Well, Anthropic came out and their co-founder told The New York Times recently that by the end of this year, 99% of their code is going to be written by A.I.

That's amazing and horrifying to me.

So the RCSD has got to figure out how do you instill passion for learning, which we're going to talk about what what fires kids up and how do you put them on a path that says, we're reasonably certain that the skills you're learning are actually going to be relevant?

>> Yeah.

So I think one thing, you know, our department in particular has had you know, some we've grappled with a lot.

Is that to your point, the rate at which that technology is moving means that for Harmony, for example, here, like the jobs that will be available and will be productive for her when she gets out of high school, they don't exist right now.

So how can we prepare a fifth grade student for something that doesn't exist yet, and it just goes back always to how can we get kids to be, you know, productive, like just analytical thinkers?

How can we instill that curiosity in them?

and how can we get them to kind of develop some of those scientific literacy skills that are going to help them no matter what they're doing when they get out of school?

>> Well, Principal Claire, your school number 16 is what grades where?

>> pre-K through six.

>> So does this do you feel like the conversation we're having about tech in a little bit about A.I.

is really more for upper grades, older grades, or do you think it comes into play for you?

>> Well, I think the situation that you described as a parent with your son is how I view our students when they come through our doors.

we're aware of technology.

I think the bottom line, though, is Dr.

Kauf alluded to is you want curiosity, you want that wild eyed curiosity from your students.

throughout their day.

And that's exemplified by big moments.

It could involve tech but it could involve, you know, experiences.

And as a community school, we want to try to provide opportunities for the community to come into the school and for our students to go out to the community in the form of field trips.

And those educational experiences.

>> The older grades are more affected by, for example, a Bell to Bell cell phone ban.

Your school affected by that too, though.

>> Speaking for our school, we don't see cell phones as an issue in our building.

>> Okay, and even before the ban.

>> It wouldn't it didn't occur to me that it was a big issue in our school.

>> Okay.

Yeah.

That's interesting.

Well, let's talk about Harmony's experience and the reason we're here is that, you heard Amy describe smile a little bit.

Now it's in its 13th year.

Now it's 25 schools, 11,000 students every year.

Something like that.

Is that is that the latest number?

>> Correct.

It's about 11,000 students.

>> Okay.

Are you worried about students a passion for learning.

I mean, like you're also a parent.

You know, you got to think about how what fires kids up and, you know, does do you worry about this?

Do you like I'm holding up a phone, like, do you or do you think kids can balance a lot of this stuff if we teach them the right way?

>> I think I want to echo it is about that curiosity.

It's about that joy.

It's about that.

Wow.

That's interesting.

And each time I see students participate in one of the programs from smile, that's the look on their face, by the way, it's called smile because Dave wanted the students to walk away with a smile on their face and feel great about what they're learning and what they're doing.

>> Well, Harmony, does that work for you?

What do you know about smile?

What has been your experience with the smile program?

>> It helps a lot when, like if you have a field trip, it helps if it if feel like it helps us with a lot of after school programs.

>> So take like a field trip for example.

What's an example?

Is this what we were talking about before the program with what were we talking about?

Oh, the to the Genesee River.

Is that an example.

So can you tell me about that.

>> So when we was at the Genesee River, we was learning about how the water can affect the animals in different ways.

And we figured out how we can keep the water clean by keeping out trash and pollution and how the water gets dirty from trash and pollution.

>> Principal Claire, do you want to elaborate on that trip to.

>> Yeah, I would just say that, you know, it's exactly what we were talking about.

You have a core curriculum, which our school is bound like every other school in the state.

But it's what you do with that curriculum to bring it to life.

you can't do that all the time.

But when you're students day has these moments in them, whether it be within lessons, within units, within the school year.

you see the results, you know, you remember those.

And I'm sure you know, when you're a student, you remember field trips, experiences.

>> Probably more than the average day.

>> so that, you know, that's what you're getting at.

You, you know, to get their attention and get them off the scroll, off the screen, dynamic learning in the classrooms by, you know, committed professionals and then, you know, partnerships with our community to support that.

>> Now that's great.

So as a fifth grade student, they said that you're doing really well in your classes.

You feel good about how you're doing as a student.

>> I do, but I wish I feel like I can do better.

>> Okay.

What do you want?

You know, you're only in fifth grade.

You don't have to have your whole life figured out.

But what do you want to do in the future?

>> I want to be a cosmetologist and a makeup artist.

>> Okay.

what subjects do you love?

Other subjects in school that fire you up?

What are they?

>> Music, art and gym.

>> Okay.

Are there subjects that you feel like aren't your strength?

>> Meth.

>> Meth.

Okay.

But you work at it.

It's worth it.

Okay.

take me through, like, an average school day, if you could.

So you're up pretty early, right?

I mean, I know kids got to get up early for school here, and your school day goes to, what, two, 3:00 in the afternoon?

What are you doing after school?

>> So I don't go in after school program.

Okay.

But my friend told me that they do, like they help out with your homework, and they were like.

How do I put this?

They would be supportive if, like, you're stuck on something, they'll help you with your reading, your writing and your math.

>> Yeah.

And as a fifth grader.

So when you're home, how much homework and night do you typically have?

>> I don't have no homework because the teacher doesn't give out homework.

Only homework we have is read 30 minutes a a night and practice a multiplication facts.

>> Okay, principal Claire has the idea of homework evolved and changed over the years?

>> Yeah, I think it has.

I think, you know, to Harmony's point, you know, they're with us till 315. not including bus rides.

Yeah.

so again, when you're at home, we want to expand that we want to give them opportunities, like Harmony said, to pursue their interests in reading and then, you know, making sure that, you know, your, your basic facts.

but to just keep on, you know, additional work just to call it homework.

we're pretty selective on what we expect from our parents and from our students.

>> I think when I was growing up, the idea was, if you're a first grader, ten minutes a day, second grader 20 minutes a day, is that outdated, like all the way up?

Is that outdated way of looking at it?

>> I think it's dependent.

I think it's dependent.

I think what we're looking at now is more of the purpose of homework.

You know, what can you accomplish during the school day?

And if we're going to assign it, as I indicated, be real selective, make sure that's meaningful.

Because when we do have students go home, we want them involved with athletics.

We want them involved with arts, music.

We have after school programs that serve a pretty high population of our kids.

so as long as it's relevant we're okay with homework, but it's we don't want busy work.

>> Okay.

Dr.

Kauf, do you want to add to that, too?

>> Yeah, for sure.

And I think you know, to Mister Claire's point the purpose really matters a lot.

with the shift to the New York State science learning standards in 2016 like, engaging in science in a, you know, classroom these days is so different probably, than how any of us ever engaged in science.

So, like, I know, when I was growing up, it was probably the same for everybody here.

You would, you know, go to class, you're going to take notes for a couple of weeks, then you're going to take a test and then you're just going to do that like 15 times.

And that's the school year, right?

so now we really want to engage kids in a totally different way, where it's not just about memorizing content, it's really about engaging in like the process skills of science to learn about the content.

And with some of those, like large themes of science sprinkled in there.

And so the old way of doing homework probably that, you know, we would have all experienced too, makes a lot of sense if the job is to memorize content.

But now, like in Harmony's case, she's experiencing science the way scientists would be doing science, like out in the field.

Right?

She's trying to make sense of phenomena in her classroom.

And so in doing a lot of that thinking, it doesn't mean that, like busywork homework is going to really achieve what it, you know, it would set out to do for her.

>> Okay, Amy, you want to add to that?

>> Well, I want to go back to the boat for a second.

I know I'm not in fifth grade, but I remember getting that experience with our partners at Cornhill Navigation, now called Rochester by Water.

this science experience is truly that.

So there I was with one of the classes and it's class by class so that they really have that intimate experience to learn.

And I don't know if you remember harmony, but when you first got on there, the educator said, how many of you have been on a boat?

And there's not as many hands as you would think for these kids that are ten and 11 years old coming here?

from the RCSD on to this experience, and they are, like she said, learning about the animals.

And do you remember looking in the microscope and seeing the bugs and things that were in the water and all of those parts and pieces looking through the binoculars when it was your turn on the boat, did you get a turn to drive the boat to?

Oh my gosh, we'll have to go back.

but it was a fantastic experience that the educators on the on the trip also told me they participated in the pre learning video that went along with it and then had lessons that were going to happen after leaving because it tied right into the curriculum.

So to your point of how are we doing all these things and how are we engaging kids beyond sitting on a screen?

This is it.

This is that hands on piece.

And then we are proud and pleased to have a booth at the Jazz Fest every year, thanks to M-A Bank.

We are there and we have our posters and our things up, and kids will come up to us and say, wait a minute, I was on that boat, or I was inside the whale, which I think we'll talk about, or I did this experience and it could be an experience they had that year or several years previously, because it connects to the learning that they do every day.

>> So as a student who maybe your your interest is less in math and science, but you get to go on the boat here.

Was that better than being in a classroom for the day?

>> Yes.

>> Yeah.

More of that, the better.

You think.

Okay.

When you do get home from school like you said you don't have a ton of homework but you're reading et cetera.

are you, are you picking up books for on your own.

Do you like to read.

>> Yeah I like to read.

>> Yeah.

do you have a phone?

>> I do.

>> You're in fifth grade.

Okay.

how do you do?

You try to regulate your own usage of the phone.

Do you have to negotiate with mom?

I mean, like, how do you do on the phone.?

>> Sometimes I would regulate it on my own, but sometimes I would have to negotiate with my mom.

>> Okay.

Do you feel like you use it too much?

>> Yes.

>> You do.

Okay, listen, I do too.

On my phone.

I probably everybody in this room, right?

We're all kind of working with that.

I think the mistake we make sometimes is talking about it like this as a kid issue.

When this is a society issue, this is a and attention spans is not just a kid issue, it's a society issue.

So I'm with you there, Harmony 100%.

But in general, how do you make sure as a student but also just as a person, that you're trying to find the right balance that says, hey, I'm going to do some reading, I'm going to spend some time on my phone, but I'm not going to be on it all day or all night.

I'm going to be a good student.

I'm going to be prepared.

How do you how do you balance that?

>> So I, I read chapter books.

So I would be like 5 or 10 chapters if I'm feeling good and then like for the rest of the time I'll just be on my phone.

>> Okay.

There you go.

Chapter books is those should never go out of style.

That's just that's just my opinion.

Do you have to do you get assigned books for school?

Not full books yet.

Okay.

All right.

Well that's very interesting.

Do you have friends or peers you think are addicted to their phones?

>> Yes.

>> Yeah.

Okay.

All right.

Well I mean like, look, that's the world we're growing up in and that's, that's why we're having this conversation.

Because, you know, we've talked in the past to Amy Stein and the team from the Rochester Education Foundation about the Smile program and about some of the efforts they have.

But, you know, that's the uphill battle is getting students to be fired up and and to feel like they can be invested.

And I want to ask Dr.

Coffee a little bit more about this idea that, you know, this is a student across the table from you.

Her interests are art, music.

You know, it wasn't just science math, but she gets to go on these field trips.

Do you think that you can have you seen evidence that students who don't feel a passion for something, walk out of some of those experiences and go, I had no idea.

>> Absolutely.

And I think you know, one thing that's true, not just in the RCSD, but, you know, nationwide is that students oftentimes have a really hard time seeing what they do in the classroom in the broader sense of, you know, community or like jobs, careers, post-secondary things like that.

and so experiences like this are what make the classroom learning really tangible for them in many instances.

So for instance, like the, you know, the fifth grade river trip, that Harmony would have gone on the data that the students collect actually gets submitted and processed in a county wide repository of data.

So, like scientists in the field use the data that the students collect and like that's very real for students.

They're out there actually collecting data.

They're out there like analyzing data.

They're designing their own experiments.

and it's not just something that they do in school like that goes on to inform decisions that get made about the the actual Genesee River itself.

take for instance, the fourth grade field trip to the MSC.

You know, that is a field trip based exclusively on discrepant events for kids, right.

so things that are really going to challenge their misconceptions about how the world works and gets them really interested in things that they might have otherwise never experienced before.

so things like that you know, certainly leverage a kids passion.

Sometimes it helps them find a new passion.

and where we see a lot of benefit is connecting those experiences to things that they're doing in the classroom.

So all of a sudden, some of that classroom learning just kind of comes to life in a way that we, you know, couldn't do with the resources we have in the four walls of a school.

>> Well, but another reason that some sometimes I think teachers might feel roadblocked from getting a chance to do those experiences is they feel we talked to a lot of teachers who feel like what's changed a lot in the last generation is the amount of time you have to teach to tests, you have to teach to standardized tests.

You feel like a little of the creativity that you'd like to have might not be.

You might not have as much room for that.

Are you concerned about that?

Or do you feel like you've got a little equilibrium in that way?

>> I mean, obviously, you know, the weight of the, you know, state assessments, you know, weighs heavily on schools.

but what we like to think is that we've designed educational programs specifically for students to maximize true understanding.

And our belief is that if students develop that really rich understanding, then the assessments should not be a huge problem for them, you know?

so ultimately, what we really wanted to do is design programming.

That's going to work really well for what we know about how kids learn, and something that's going to speak to them as as individuals.

>> Principal Ryan Clair standardized tests just write too much, not enough.

>> I'm okay with a standardized test.

I think you need standard standardization, but at the end of the day, that is a, you know, approximately for our assessment for math and Ela.

so we use that data, but does it define, you know, the success of our kids and the learning?

not entirely.

So like I said before, we teach to the standards as Dr.

Coffey alluded to, and then we rely on the teachers, they're the professionals to take that, bring that to life, get that curiosity, which we know is the engine for learning.

and if we do those things right, the students should have no problem on that test.

>> We had Dr.

Ross Green on the program last week.

He's the author of a number of books, and his newest book is called The Kids Who Aren't Okay.

And he has some issues with some of the way that American schools have set up not only discipline, but also how we standardize testing, what we expect of students.

His view is that while it's important to have standards that we want all students to learn, it is more important for schools, especially schools in in for a variety of reasons, challenging districts to say, if you're starting, you know, you know, somewhere on the line, I want you higher by the end of the year.

I don't need you at the top of it.

I don't need everybody exactly in the same place.

But I need to know there was progress.

And he believes standardized testing and the way some some of the schools are set up.

And in this country make it so that we force students to have to be at the same place, then we hold them back or we discipline as opposed to individual sort of evaluation, saying, are we firing you up?

If you started here, are you getting started?

Actually, you're getting to why you may not need to get to Z, but we can at least advance you.

How do you feel about that?

>> Yeah, I'm familiar with Dr.

Green's work, and it's right on the money.

I think when you mentioned growth the standards are standards.

A test is a test, but the growth of students is going to vary significantly.

so that's really the challenge of education.

Can a student walk into your school and your classroom, and can we meet his or her needs so that they grow and reach their full potential?

That's going to look differently for each student.

It's going to look you know, social emotional lens, which I know you know, Dr.

Green that's his area.

You got academics.

there's so much into, you know, having our students grow and achieve.

>> Dr.

Kauf, can you add to that, too?

I'm curious to know how you think the assessment of students, if we're doing it right.

>> Yeah.

So I think, you know, there's so many different ways to assess a student.

And I think the way that state accountability systems are set up right now really rely heavily on those state standardized tests.

That's a really one dimensional way of assessing a kid.

I think we would teach all of our teachers, you know, in the district and, you know, Mr.

Keller would say the same thing that when they're assessing kids in their own classroom, they'd come up with a variety of assessments because every kid is going to show them you know, their understanding of mastery in a very different way.

And so we want to make sure that every kid has the opportunity to be able to demonstrate that level of mastery.

so to Dr.

Greene's point, I mean, it is very one dimensional.

so in thinking about that, the charge of our schools and our district is just to ensure that we are educating the whole child, right?

We can't solely focus on standardized tests.

They are part of what we do.

but we really have to make sure that what we're doing is right by kids in developing them in every possible way that's going to make them successful when they leave us.

You know.

>> You want to add to that?

>> Yeah, I was just going to say a trap would be to get into test prep.

You don't want to go there.

You want to go again to the standards, bring them to life.

find a student's passion.

>> Why not test prep.?

>> So test prep is fine.

If you want to just talk about the format of the test to to make sure that students are prepared.

but again, you teach to standards and you're not, you know, a multiple choice test based on a written response is, is one piece of the pie?

if you look at what it would take for a successful student leaving our system, you would want more than just do good on a multiple choice test on a grade level test, you would want things like creativity.

You would want things, like presenting collaboration skills like that.

in addition to the doing okay on a test.

>> Harmony as a fifth grade student, do you feel good about test taking?

Do you get nervous about tests?

How do you feel about it?

>> I would feel good if I like study for it, and if I remember the stuff that she taught or they taught.

But sometimes I'm nervous.

>> Okay.

but in general, you don't get too stressed about it.

No, no, I, I really appreciate you saying earlier this hour that you feel pretty good about your academics.

Do you think you can do better in certain subjects?

Your principal is sitting next to you going like, you're doing great.

You know, I mean, like, he's they're very proud of you.

They're very proud of you.

But I think it's great that you feel like you want to get better.

What?

What is it that makes when you're doing really well in a class?

Why do you think you do well?

And when you're not as fired up, what do you think holds you back a little.?

>> Like when I'm doing well in class, like I'm awake and I'm not tired and I'm actually enjoying the lesson.

But when I'm like, not as well.

I'm tired and kind of not enjoying the lesson.

>> Okay, so maybe a different question related is to you what makes a great teacher?

>> what makes a great teacher is when a teacher supports you, no matter what it is and is always there for you, and you can talk to them about anything.

>> Do you have teachers like that?

That's great.

you know, and I know your principal is very eager to hear your answer there.

I noticed what she didn't say.

She didn't say is a great teacher.

As a teacher who always produces the same high level of test scores, that was not her answer.

Her answer was about the human interaction.

what makes a great teacher in your school?

>> It's.

You nailed it.

It's education is about experiences and relationships.

It's that relationship between an adult, a professional under the care.

of beautiful students like Harmony and making sure they reach their potential.

engaging lessons, Connections, Connections to family.

And then when there's a bottleneck in that, that we have the resources as a school to meet the needs of all the children.

we are a community school.

As I said earlier, one of the reasons why I think we're here is we do a very good job of getting our students out into the community, bringing community members and programs into our school.

we were just talking before, and Harmony's getting on the bus this week for another field trip, going to the RPO is that tomorrow.

>> I'm going to the RPO.

Yeah, yeah.

So we're going to talk after our only break about the whale.

We got to talk about that.

But Amy, I mean you've seen a lot of teachers in action.

What do you think makes a great teacher.

>> Exactly what they said.

Somebody who comes to the table caring about the students.

People come.

You know, I'm privileged because everyone who comes to to meet with me is coming for the extras or the things that they don't consider extra, the things that they consider essential for their kids.

And they all view their kids in their classrooms as their kids.

And that love of each student is really what I think makes the teachers phenomenal.

>> Dr.

coffee.

What makes a great teacher?

>> Yeah.

Same thing.

I always said three things one strong content knowledge, two strong pedagogical knowledge, and three, just a willingness to go above and beyond to make Connections with kids and everybody else in that building.

>> Harmony.

Here's what's really cool about this.

The teachers who you're thinking of now, who you love now, you will never forget their names.

You will think about them throughout your whole life and your career.

I can I can sit here and give you a short list of names from third grade, fifth grade, seventh grade, ninth grade.

The people who changed my life.

And there's probably a lot of teachers who were good, who maybe I just didn't realize I wasn't the perfect student.

Harmony.

but the best teachers you'll never forget.

And that's really, really cool.

Go ahead.

Ray.

>> Yeah, I actually posed that question.

We had a half day just recently, and randomly I just said, who remembers their second grade teacher in front of the whole staff?

And so staff members, everybody had their hand up.

so yeah, we're in the education business, but we're in the transformation business.

It's just taking kids where they are and just seeing that growth and, you know, working alongside them, with them to achieve their goals.

The best.

>> So do you want to shout out any teachers before we go to break here?

Who do you want to shout out?

>> My kindergarten teacher, Miss Young, and my third and fourth grade teacher, my third grade teacher was Miss Feltman.

My fourth grade teacher is Miss Hell and Miss Galvin.

In my fifth grade teachers, Mr.

Dowd and Miss Hale.

>> Good stuff.

Yeah.

You know those folks there.

I think their.

>> Shout out.

Yeah.

they they go hard.

>> We're talking to Harmony Davis, a fifth grade student at the doctor, David and Ruth Anderson Academy school number 16, in the Rochester City School District.

The principal of that school is Ryan Clair.

Who's with us?

Dr.

Sean Coffey is executive director of science in the Department of Teaching and learning at the Rochester City School District.

And they're all talking about this program through the RAF, the Rochester Education Foundation executive director, Amy Stein, is with us.

When we come back, we're going inside the whale with the RAF.

That's next.

I'm Evan Dawson, host of Connections.

We bring you in-depth conversations with newsmakers, with people from all backgrounds and points of view in our community.

And it's a chance for you in the audience to join the conversation in various ways.

Two hours every weekday.

We're proud to bring you these conversations, and we look forward to joining you next time on Connections.

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>> I've got a note here on a young man who was being tutored in math by the founder of smile, who left his elementary school classroom to go take the ninth grade Regents Algebra test and had a standing ovation from his class.

Do you know this story?

>> Amy Stein Marcus did this.

So not only does smile lean heavily into the science, but now there's smile math.

And this is newer.

it's pretty sensational.

There is a group of students from RIT, and there's some now from U of R working together to come and tutor students at Loretta Johnson Middle School, as well as soda at the middle school levels in algebra and Dave Beck and a couple of other tutors are working at school, 23 at 15 and at 12.

But I believe, Marcus, this young man that you speak of, scored one of the top scores for the ninth grade region test.

>> Amazing story.

So tell me a little bit more about what smile offers students.

>> Well, it's all of these experiences.

It's really tied deeply into the curriculum.

I think that we, we Dave more Dave than myself, but we talked to Sean Coffey on the regular and each of the principals and the teachers, the ideas of what to do and how to bring the curriculum alive comes from Dave and from them.

But there is a partnership with Lollipop Farm for different things that are happening with second graders.

There's a partnership with Rochester Ecology Partners, there's different cool things happening.

There's a hot air balloon that comes from Liberty Balloon and our partners at Remax that comes into the schools.

That's really, really cool.

And they get to did you guys have that yet?

You will that come and make that really come alive.

There's also a group of fourth graders like five different schools will go to RIT and learn about engineering and go tour and see all the engineering buildings and do hands on science experiments.

So it's event after event and program after program that is brought to us through the Smile program that Rochester Education Foundation makes happen in partnership with everybody sitting in this room, really.

And of course, Dave Beck and members of the community that donate to it.

>> And tell me the story of the whale.

>> Well, the story of the whale is this the whale that comes to us from Gloucester, Massachusetts, from the whale mobile and the phenomenal educators there.

is based on a real whale named Niall.

And I didn't know this, but we learned together that the whale is named for a marker on the whale.

And this whale, Niall, has a mark on its flipper that looks like the Nile River.

And that's how they each get their name.

And check this out.

When I was in Cape Cod over the summer in Provincetown, I saw the whale boats going out, and they told me I could go see Niall.

So not go become senile.

Go see.

>> That's how I heard it.

>> Go see Niall the Whale in action.

in the water.

But here we are, bringing this to our students at RCSD, and they are able to participate in this amazing program where they even get to go inside.

But I'll let Harmony tell you about that.

but when I, when I was there, here I am with students that have never seen the ocean.

And this brings it to life for them.

>> Yeah.

You really can't understand how big a whale is until you kind of see it.

Did you see this thing?

What was that like?

Harmony.

>> So when I walked inside, I was actually kind of nervous.

>> Was it like in your gym or was it.

>> In my gym?

>> In the gym.

Okay.

Yep.

>> When I walked inside, I was kind of nervous to see it.

But when I actually stepped inside, it was actually cool because they taught us how.

Because I always thought Wells had teeth.

But turns out they don't.

They just have like these little hairs inside their mouth that lets the water out but keeps the food in.

>> Okay, awesome.

was it bigger than you thought it would be?

>> Yes.

>> Okay.

and you could learn about whales in a book or in a class lecture.

Why was this better?

>> Because it actually because I like to visual things before I actually read about it.

And when I visualized when I saw it, I went, I wanted to read more about it.

>> Well yeah, I mean, I can't Amy, that's one thing that was not part of my curriculum growing up.

I didn't get to kind of go inside and see the full size of a whale here.

Were you there on that day, principal?

>> Yeah, it was definitely there.

And, you know, to Harmony's point, you know, when you walk in and and the anticipation before you go in there because there's a lot of pre learning and reading and also post as well reflection.

But yeah going in the gym and seeing a whale and having the kids in there.

and then there's teaching stations outside of that.

that's what you're looking for.

And you know, that's what I mean when you toggle between, you know, the transactional and the transformational, you have to have those moments within your, your day, your week, your year that really define the learning.

>> Well.

And so in the last ten minutes, I just want to talk a little bit about how these experiences that the Education Foundation is bringing, how they tie to the question of how we design schools to begin with.

And, you know, Dr.

Coffee, as the executive director of science and the Department of Teaching and Learning at the Rochester City School District, you're not charged with reinventing a classroom.

But if we were creating classrooms from scratch now in 2026, would they look like K through 12 classrooms.

>> Like compared to a traditional K through 12 classroom?

You know, I think there would be elements of a K through 12 classroom.

But if we could just remain resolutely focused on those ways that we know people learn, I think that would get us there.

And I know we talked about it a little bit before, but like just finding ways to get kids to make sense of natural phenomena, build knowledge based on old knowledge really have to think deeply about their learning, challenge some misconceptions.

you know, learn together.

Those are all things that look really different from probably how we experience school when we were kids.

but finding ways to build those in and then really tie them to the greater community, I think that's a piece that we could certainly build on if we were redesigning a school.

And I think that's really where, you know, the RAF and the Smile Foundation comes into play.

Right?

>> Yeah.

I mean, I wonder if Principal Claire, if you had the keys to the castle and you were redesigning or designing schools from scratch.

Now, what would they look like?

>> I think about that a lot.

It's it's my career's work.

It's my life's passion.

I think school is evolving, and it should be evolving.

You mentioned technology.

We're mentioned learning experiences.

There's literacy.

but like I said before, at the end of the day, it's that curiosity that has to be the common denominator in the bottom line that hasn't changed.

So yeah, I think we got to keep being progressive.

We want to be on the cutting edge of education to provide our students with what they deserve, which is the best.

>> Would it be a teacher in front of a classroom, lecturing to students, sitting at desks still, or would it look different?

>> I think, you know, within that, so that that's what I meant with the transactional and the transformational within that, what's really changed that I've seen recently is, is students owning their learning.

So the anatomy of a lesson where students are discussing talking, they're debating, they're questioning, they're asking the questions instead of the teacher asking questions to them.

If you come into our school, that's really a hallmark of what you would see.

You would see engaged, active, curious children.

but yeah, to to your point, you I want it to be more I want to bring the experiences to the kids and I want them in their community learning.

there probably is a ways to go in that area.

>> Harmony.

Do you feel like you know, as a fifth grade student yourself here?

you does does the school setting feel like it works to, to get students to learn?

>> Yes.

And it works because not only do the teachers teach, sometimes when the kids understand it, they will come up with their math book and show it and teach the class what they did and teach them.

Basically, it's basically the teachers teaching students and students teaching students.

>> Yeah.

So a lot more of that collaboration, not just top down, a lot more interaction.

that's probably what you what you want to see, right?

>> Yeah.

Our teachers are skilled professionals.

So it's a profession.

It's an art.

And when done, it is it's it's artwork and you're creating this dynamic with children under your care that you're you're getting, you know, those outputs that you described.

And that's through planning.

It's through execution of a lesson.

and it's it's nice to hear that.

That's what I see when I go in our school is not a lot of teachers up on the front of the board.

I see and hear a lot of talking, discussion and having the cognitive load shift to the scholars.

>> Yeah.

That's great.

Amy, anything you want to add on how we design schools these days?

>> I just am excited that they invite me to come into them all the time, and we get to see the students really thriving.

It's a lot of fun.

>> let me read an email from Kristen who's concerned about teachers who just said, you know, she's seen stories about teachers.

Just, you know, what they're paid.

And are people inspired to go into the profession?

Do some teachers, do they pick up second jobs?

She says it's sad that our wonderful teachers can't make enough of a living that sustainable.

I'd love to hear how we can better support teachers.

This profession won't survive if changes aren't made.

That's from Kristen.

doctor coffee, what would you say to Kristen?

>> Yeah, I mean, I think certainly if you were to go into, you know, buildings and talk to teachers, a lot of those same concerns might be echoed.

you know, I think one thing that teachers really want is a lot of space to do what they know is best with kids.

and so supporting them in that work.

And I know if you were to talk to Mr.

Keller about that, you know, that's a focus of his building, right?

Is like, how do we lift up the teaching staff in a way that's going to make that product in the classroom every day, you know, really rich for the students?

and so finding ways, you know, just to support them in any capacity that they need is really important and keeps them in the profession.

a lot of those other structural things, we don't necessarily have a say over like, I unfortunately, like can't pay teachers more money.

>> If I.

>> Get, you know, even if I wanted to you know, or necessarily give them more time off, that's all, you know, contractual but making, you know, that that space every day where they, you know, come into work something that they connect with, making sure that they're fully supported and that they find joy in what they do.

You know, those are the things that we would like to do just to try to support them further.

>> Principal Claire, how your teachers doing?

>> I love our staff.

I think like Dr.

Coffee said, I think if they're supported and they have what they need to be successful, that's what they want.

They want resources.

they want a degree of autonomy.

within the framework of the curriculum to do do what they do best.

I feel like if you walk through school 16 and I would invite you to come down one day, you'll see what I described.

I'm very proud of our staff and what they deliver to our students and our families.

>> And let me close with this.

You know, a lot of the talk about inspiring students test scores, prep, all of that stuff, a lot of the focus, understandably, is on on students who you know, might be not at grade level or struggling.

David writes to us, a listener named David writes to us just with a note on the importance of making sure that your offerings can help, you know, bring students forward when they need the help.

But also can let students shine when they're really ready to shine.

The harmony of the world.

This is what David said.

He says we're talking over 50 years ago now.

But when I was in fifth grade, my teacher let me work through the books that were available, and by the end of the year, I'd completed the ninth grade math curriculum.

My family moved the next summer, and come September, I was in a school where my teacher would not let me work ahead.

I got bored and that became the root of me skipping school as much as I could.

I eventually recovered, but never regained my interest in math until I found myself working out a closed solution for a difficult statistical problem.

As a grad student.

I caught on then, but I could still get that I could still get interested.

But it was situational only, and to this day I get bored quickly when I don't see an immediate application.

It's very, very important, I'd say, to keep the opportunities open for the really bright students.

It's so important and can keep their minds much more open than they would otherwise be.

That's from David.

What do you think, principal?

>> I would second that.

and that speaks to the challenges of the profession.

you got 450 students.

They're all at different levels.

Absolutely.

That's our responsibility, though.

You got to challenge a student that that he's describing right there.

you got to support others to, to try to reach that standard.

it's difficult work.

but as I alluded to, I feel we're doing a good job there.

But, yeah, there's always room to grow and and get better.

>> Harmony.

Do you feel appropriately challenged in school?

You feel good?

Where?

Where you're at?

>> Yeah.

>> All right.

Well, it's been great talking to you this hour, and I'm going to close by asking the executive director of the Rochester.

Amy Stein.

If people want more information on what you're doing, if people wanted to see your work expand, if people wanted to bring you to where you haven't been before, what do you want people to understand about what you're doing.?

>> That we are in it to help students thrive every day of the week.

And it's it's our job as the village.

It's our job as the community.

And we get to we get to put smiles on kids faces because they love learning.

We get to help them succeed and to grow.

And we want all the partners we can have.

So if anybody wants to reach out I'm at Amy at Rochester Education Foundation and our website is Rochester Education Foundation.

And they can see it all again.

>> You've been around for how long?

>> we are 20 year, 21 years now.

>> And if you're just joining us and you missed earlier this hour, every one of the 25 elementary schools in RCSD, 11,000 students you've been working with.

So.

But maybe still room to grow.

Who knows?

>> Hey, we can still grow.

We serve over 20,000 students with all of the programs that we have.

And we're never stopping.

>> Thank you for making time for us this hour.

Thanks for organizing this conversation.

Amy Stein executive director of the Rochester Education Foundation.

Nice seeing you back here.

Thank you.

Dr.

Sean Coffey, executive director of science in the Department of Teaching and Learning at the Rochester City School District.

Thank you for sharing your experience.

Come back sometime.

>> Of course, I appreciate it.

>> I really enjoyed it.

Harmony Davis don't you come back sometime, go back to school?

Actually, you know what?

You're going to the RPO tomorrow.

You're always doing cool stuff.

You can come back anytime you want.

Fifth grade student at school number 16.

Great meeting you.

Thank you for being here, Harmony.

And thank you to Harmony's principal Ryan Clair principal of the doctor, David and Ruth Anderson Academy School in the Rochester City School District.

Thanks for being here.

>> Thanks for having.

>> Us from all of us at Connections.

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