>> JUST AHEAD ON BLACK ISSUES FORUM, AN EXTENDED EVICTION MORATORIUM GIVES RENTERS MORE TIME.

A LOOK AT HOW HBCUS ARE PROVIDING STUDENT DEBT RELIEF, AND THE ROLE OF THE BLACK CHURCH ON VOTING RIGHTS.

STAY WITH US.

♪ WELCOME TO BLACK ISSUES FORUM.

I'M DEBORAH HOLT NOEL.

RENTERS STRUGGLING TO MAKE PAYMENTS DUE TO COVID INFLICTED HARDSHIPS ARE ONCE AGAIN SAFE FROM POSSIBLE EVICTION.

JUST DAYS AFTER THE FEDERAL MORATORIUM'S EXPIRATION, AND MUCH PROTEST ON CAPITOL HILL BY PROGRESSIVES, PRESIDENT BIDEN EMPOWERED THE CDC TO EXTEND THE MORATORIUM IN MORE LIMITED TERMS THROUGH OCTOBER 3RD, CITING THE DELTA VARIANT AS A GAME CHANGER.

>> THE COURTS MADE IT CLEAR THAT THE EXISTING MORATORIUM WAS NOT CONSTITUTIONAL.

IT WOULDN'T STAND.

IN THE MEANTIME, WHAT I'VE BEEN PUSHING FOR AND CALLING FOR, BECAUSE WE HAVE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS THAT WERE GIVEN TO STATES TO PROVIDE FOR RENT AND UTILITIES FOR THOSE PEOPLE WHO CAN'T AFFORD TO STAY IN THEIR HOMES BECAUSE THEY CAN'T FIND AN APARTMENT, THEY CAN'T PAY THEIR RENT.

AND SO, WE ARE URGING THEM TO DISTRIBUTE THOSE FUNDS TO THE LANDLORDS.

>> PROBLEM IS, THE SUPREME COURT ALREADY RULED SUCH A MOVE COULD NOT HAPPEN WITHOUT CONGRESSIONAL APPROVAL.

THIS EXTENSION OCCURRED WITHOUT THAT APPROVAL.

WHAT'S IT MEAN FOR BIDEN AND FOR OUR ECONOMY?

TODAY'S ROUNDTABLE WEIGHS IN.

I'D LIKE TO WELCOME CLINICAL PROFESSOR OF LAW AT DUKE UNIVERSITY JESSE MCCOY, JOURNALIST COURTNEY NAPIER, AND PROFESSOR OF HISTORY AND POLITICAL SCIENCE AT NORTH CAROLINA A AND T STATE UNIVERSITY DR. ARWIN D. SMALLWOOD.

WANT TO OPEN UP WITH YOU JESSE.

THIS MOVE ESSENTIALLY EMPOWERED THE CDC TO ACT RATHER THAN CINCHING CONGRESSIONAL APPROVAL, WHAT KIND OF LEGAL BIND DOES THIS POSSIBLY LEAVE THE PRESIDENT?

>> WELL I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO KNOW THAT THE PRESIDENT IS TRYING TO READ THE TEA LEAVES.

SO THE SUPREME COURT HASN'T NECESSARILY SAID THAT IT'S UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

IT WAS ACTUALLY A LOWER FEDERAL COURT JUDGE AND WHAT THE SUPREME COURT HAS HEARD IS THE ARGUMENT ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THE STAY SHOULD CONTINUE TO BE IMPOSED OR IT SHOULD BE LIFTED.

IN THIS SITUATION, WHAT HE'S SEEN IS THAT THERE WAS BASICALLY A FIVE-FOUR SPLIT WITH THE MORE PROGRESSIVE JUSTICES SAYING THAT THE ORDERS SHOULD REMAIN IN PLACE AND THE OTHER JUSTICES SAYING THAT IS NOT.

THE ACTUAL SWING VOTE WAS KAVANAUGH, AND KAVANAUGH'S VOTE WAS FOLLOWED WITH AN EXPLANATION.

THAT EXPLANATION WAS THAT BECAUSE THE MORATORIUM WAS GOING TO END ON JULY 31ST.

HE DIDN'T FEEL LIKE THE STAY NEEDED TO BE LIFTED, SO THEY KEPT IT IN PLACE FOR JULY 31ST.

AT THIS POINT WE'RE BEYOND JULY 31ST AND BIDEN KNOWS THAT IF THE MERITS OF THIS CASE ACTUALLY GO TO THE SUPREME COURT, HE'S PROBABLY LOOKING AT A DEFEAT WHEN KAVANAUGH SWITCHES BACK TO BE WITH THE CONSERVATIVE JUSTICES.

SO WHAT HE'S TRYING TO DO IS OFFSET ANY POTENTIAL HARM THAT MAY COME IF THIS EVICTION MORATORIUM IS LIFTED.

HOWEVER WHAT WE HAVE ESTABLISHED IS KIND OF A CUMBERSOME MORATORIUM THAT IS TECHNICALLY IN EFFECT UNTIL OCTOBER THE 3RD, BUT ONLY APPLIES IN COUNTIES WITHIN THE UNITED STATES THAT HAVE EITHER A HIGH OR SUBSTANTIAL COVID TRANSMISSION DESIGNATION.

THE BENEFIT RIGHT NOW IS THAT I THINK IN NORTH CAROLINA, ALL BUT ABOUT 2 COUNTIES HAVE THAT DESIGNATION.

THOSE 2 COUNTIES BEING HERFORD AND BERTIE COUNTY THAT DON'T, BUT EVERYONE ELSE IS COVERED AND THE GOVERNMENT IS GOING TO DO A SEVEN-DAY EVALUATION.

SO EVERY WEEK THERE'S GOING TO BE A MEASURE TO SEE IF WE STILL FALL IN THAT HIGH OR SUBSTANTIAL COVID TRANSMISSION WAY.

THE FEAR HERE IS IF IT ANY POINT IN TIME WE FALL BELOW THAT STANDARD THEN THE MORATORIUM GOES AWAY.

>> WELL, THAT'S SORT OF HOPING FOR A GOOD OUTCOME OR JUST HOPING THAT WE QUALIFY SO THAT PEOPLE CAN HAVE THAT EXTENSION.

I DON'T KNOW WHICH IS WORSE BUT BUT COURTNEY, IT IS GOOD NEWS FOR RENTERS AND SHOULD BE GOOD NEWS AS WELL FOR LANDLORDS BECAUSE THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO BE THE ONES GETTING THESE FUNDS.

BUT THE PROBLEM IS THIS HASN'T REALLY BEEN ABOUT MONEY AVAILABLE, THE AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN HAS BEEN AVAILABLE FOR A LONG TIME, BUT ONLY ABOUT 3 BILLION OF THE 47 BILLION HAS ACTUALLY BEEN SPENT.

SO WHAT'S THE SITUATION HERE IN NORTH CAROLINA?

HOW IS GOVERNOR COOPER RESPONDING?

>> WELL FIRST OF ALL THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME AND WHAT PROFESSOR MCCOY SAID IS REALLY POINTING TO A LOT OF ISSUES.

IT'S A VERY CUMBERSOME SITUATION THAT WE FOUND OURSELVES IN THAT HAVE VERY VERY SMALL MARGINS FOR WHO CAN QUALIFY.

AND SO THE SITUATION WE'RE IN IS WHEN THE PANDEMIC STARTED UNDER THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION WE WERE THROWN INTO CHAOS AND WE'VE BEEN BUILDING AS PLANE AS WE'RE FLYING IN THE AIR.

AND THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION WE STARTED WITH THE PAPER AIRPLANE.

THERE WASN'T A WHOLE LOT THERE AS FAR AS DIRECTION FOR ANYONE INVOLVED WHETHER THIS ORGANIZATIONS WHETHER IT'S A MUNICIPAL GOVERNMENT, STATE GOVERNMENT, ETCETERA, AND SO WE'RE IN A SITUATION WHERE WE HAVE A PRESSING NEED WE HAVE UNPRECEDENTED SAFETY ISSUES.

WE HAVE THE MONEY BUT WE DON'T HAVE THE INFRASTRUCTURE TO GET IT OUT TO PEOPLE, AND WE'RE ALSO DEALING WITH A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO ARE DEALING WITH THIS SYSTEM FOR THE VERY FIRST TIME, PEOPLE WHO ARE FINDING THEMSELVES HOUSING INSECURE WHO HAVE NEVER BEEN IN THIS POSITION BEFORE AND REALLY DON'T KNOW HOW TO NAVIGATE ALL THE DIFFERENT LEVELS OF A VERY COMPLICATED SYSTEM THAT HAS BEEN TOO COMPLICATED FOR A VERY LONG TIME AND AFFECTING FAMILIES, ESPECIALLY BLACK AND BROWN FAMILIES FOR DECADES.

BUT NOW MUCH LIKE WE HAD WITH THE IRS AND GETTING OUR TAX RETURNS.

WE HAVE A FLOOD OF INDIVIDUALS LOOKING FOR HELP ALL AT ONE TIME AND WE DON'T HAVE THE INFRASTRUCTURE TO SUPPORT THEM.

>> SO FOR YOU IT'S ABOUT INFRASTRUCTURE, DOCTOR SMALLWOOD, LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT THE IMPACT ON THE ECONOMY, THE POTENTIAL IMPACT, ESPECIALLY IF THE ASSISTANCE DOLLARS JUST CONTINUE TO SIT.

I MEAN THE INFRASTRUCTURE WASN'T THERE.

THE INFRASTRUCTURE IS STILL REALLY ISN'T THERE.

SO WHAT'S GOING TO CHANGE IN THE NEXT COUPLE MONTHS?

>> AGAIN WE HOPE THAT THAT WILL ALLEVIATE ITSELF, I MEAN AT THE END OF THE DAY WITH EVERYONE'S SUBSCRIBING IS THE FACT THAT THERE WASN'T REALLY A PLAN TO DISTRIBUTE THE FUNDS.

WE UNDERSTOOD THE PROBLEM BECAUSE PEOPLE COULDN'T GO TO WORK BECAUSE THE VIRUS KEPT PEOPLE HOME AND TO AVOID BEING SICK AND OF COURSE PEOPLE DIDN'T ATTEND BUSINESSES WHETHER IT'S THE RESTAURANT INDUSTRY OR ANYPLACE ELSE AND BUT I THINK PART OF THIS - AND I'M GOING A LITTLE AFIELD - BUT PART OF THIS IS THE FACT THAT WE ARE EXISTING THIS PANDEMIC IS STILL AFFECTING PEOPLE UNEVENLY, AND SO PEOPLE WHO ARE AT THE HIGHER INCOME LEVEL WHO CAN WORK FROM HOME USING TECHNOLOGIES, THEY'RE IN A MUCH BETTER POSITION, AND SO I THINK MIKE WITH A LOT OF THINGS WHEN WE TALK ABOUT YOU KNOW EVEN OUR OWN VOLUNTEER ARMY.

I THINK THAT PEOPLE, YOU DON'T FEEL IT IF YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT PEOPLE ARE GOING THROUGH IN OUR MODERN SOCIETY, UNFORTUNATELY, YOU KNOW PEOPLE DON'T THINK THAT THIS IMPORTANT AND THAT GETS TO THE SPLIT IN CONGRESS AND WHY WE'RE HAVING SO MANY PROBLEMS OF TRYING TO GET THIS MONEY OUT TO THE PEOPLE.

BUT WE CERTAINLY HAVE TO CREATE THE INFRASTRUCTURE THAT CAN GET THE MONEY TO THE PEOPLE WHO REALLY NEED IT AND WE KNOW THAT THAT NEED IS THERE.

>> IT'S DEFINITELY GOING TO HAVE TO HAPPEN BECAUSE IT GETS INTO THE HANDS OF THOSE RENTERS IN ORDER TO GET INTO THE HANDS OF THE LANDLORDS SO THAT THEY CAN PAY THEIR BILLS AS WELL AND THIS HAS HAD GOT TO HAVE.

WE CAN'T JUST KEEP EXTENDING MORATORIUMS AND SO FORTH BECAUSE I WOULD IMAGINE THIS -- WHAT IS THIS REALLY DOING TO THE ECONOMY?

DOCTOR SMALLWOOD.

>> WELL AT THE END OF THE DAY.

MOST PEOPLE WILL HAVE TO -- YOU HAVE TO HAVE SECURITY AND AGAIN I TALK ABOUT THINGS IN TERMS OF SOCIAL CONTACTS IN TERMS OF OUR COMMUNITIES AND HOW OUR COMMUNITIES EXIST.

IF PEOPLE CAN'T HAVE SECURE HOUSING.

IT GOES BACK TO MARTIN LUTHER KING AND THE POOR PEOPLE'S CAMPAIGN.

IF PEOPLE CAN'T HAVE SECURE HOUSING AND THEY CAN'T HAVE JOBS THAT PROVIDE THEM WITH A LIVABLE SITUATION, THEN OF COURSE LIKE I SAID EVERYTHING FEEDS INTO THE ECONOMY.

FOR THE ECONOMY TO GROW WE HAVE TO HAVE WORKERS, WORKERS HAVE TO BE STABLE THEY HAVE TO HAVE A SECURE HOME ENVIRONMENT WHERE THEY CAN ACTUALLY GO TO WORK AND FOCUS ON THEIR JOB AND THEN THE ECONOMY ROLLS ALONG, IT MOVES AROUND PEOPLE THAT ARE CONSUMING, THEY GO OUT TO RESTAURANTS, THEY PURCHASE ITEMS, BUT ALL OF THAT REALLY COMES BACK TO THE WORKERS BEING SECURE AND I THINK WE'VE MOVED AWAY FROM THAT IN RECENT, IN RECENT YEARS DECADES, ACTUALLY THAT AGAIN, TOP HEAVY BUT THE BOTTOM WHERE THE PEOPLE ACTUALLY DO ASSEMBLE THINGS PUT THINGS TOGETHER AND REALLY KIND OF DRIVE THE ECONOMY.

WE DON'T SEEM TO AS A NATION UNDERSTAND THE CRISIS THAT THEY'RE IN AND SUPPORT THEM IN THE WAY THAT YOU KNOW WE SHOULD.

>> WELL WE'RE DEFINITELY AT A DESPERATE POINT I DO WANT TO ASK ABOUT THE HOPE PROGRAM JESSE.

HERE WE HAVE THIS RENTAL ASSISTANCE PROGRAM SET UP TO HELP PEOPLE WHO ARE HAVING DIFFICULTIES BUT IT'S BEING SAID THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT APPLYING FOR IT, BUT THEN WHEN THEY DO APPLY FOR ABOUT ONE OUT OF 3 PEOPLE ARE GETTING REJECTED SO WHERE'S WHERE'S THE HOLDUP?

IT'S INFRASTRUCTURE, BUT ALSO THE REJECTION.

DOES SOMETHING NEED TO HAPPEN WITH THAT?

>> SO I THINK THE INFRASTRUCTURE IS A BIG PIECE AND JUST TO GIVE CONTEXT, SO WE STARTED THE CDC MORATORIUM IN AUGUST OF LAST YEAR.

WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY KIND OF BUDGET FOR RENTAL SUPPLEMENTATION UNTIL JANUARY OF THIS YEAR.

SO WE'RE TALKING SEVERAL MONTHS THAT PEOPLE WERE WERE CONTINUOUSLY ACCUMULATING MORE RENTAL DEFICITS, MORE ASSOCIATED FEES.

ON TOP OF THAT THE EVEN THE AGENCIES INCLUDING NC HOPE WHO RECEIVED THE FUNDING ARE IN CHARGE OF DISPERSING THE FUNDING, THEY DIDN'T GET GUIDANCE FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF TREASURY TIL THE END OF FEBRUARY.

SO THEY ARE ALWAYS FEARFUL OF THE BACK END AUDIT, OR BEING TOLD THAT THEY DID SOMETHING WRONG.

THAT MIGHT IMPACT THEIR ABILITY TO GET FUTURE GRANTS AND BE ABLE TO PROVIDE THE SERVICES.

SO ESSENTIALLY WE'VE BEEN LOOKING AT PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN TRYING TO ADMINISTER FUNDS SINCE MARCH.

AND THE BOTTLENECK IN TRAFFIC FOR ALL PEOPLE WHO NEED THE SERVICES ON TOP OF THE FACT THAT THE CUMBERSOME REQUIREMENTS FOR DIFFERENT DOCUMENTATION AND FORMS FOR WORKING PEOPLE THAT CAN BE A LOT.

AND SO WHEN PEOPLE DON'T HAVE THOSE FORMS OR IF THEY DON'T RESPOND IN A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF TIME, THAT'S GOING YOU HIRE REJECTION RATE, BUT IT IS IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE TO KNOW THAT NATIONALLY, THERE ARE 47 BILLION DOLLARS EARMARKED FOR RENTAL ASSISTANCE.

SO IT'S IMPORTANT IF YOU ARE IN THE AREA THAT DOES NOT HAVE NC HOPE OR DOES NOT HAVE A MUNICIPALITY THAT'S ALREADY PARTICIPATING IN THE PROGRAM, PLEASE CALL 2, 1, 1, AND FIND OUT WHAT RESOURCES ARE AVAILABLE IN YOUR AREA BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY THE MONEY IS THERE.

>> IT'S THERE AND PEOPLE SOME PEOPLE ARE NECESSARILY ASKING FOR IT SO I WOULD JUST LIKE TO ADD TO WHAT YOU SHARED JESSE, IF YOU OR SOMEONE, YOU KNOW IS BEHIND ON RENT DUE TO COVID ECONOMIC IMPACTS YOU MAY QUALIFY FOR ASSISTANCE INFORMATION ON THE HOPE PROGRAM THAT'S THE HOUSING OPPORTUNITIES AND PREVENTION OF EVICTIONS PROGRAM IS AVAILABLE ONLINE AT HOPE.NC.GOV OR YOU CAN CALL 888-927-5467.

THIS PAST WEEK NORTH CAROLINA CENTRAL UNIVERSITY CLEARED OVER 10 MILLION DOLLARS IN OUTSTANDING TUITION, FEES AND SUMMER SESSION COSTS FOR MORE THAN 5200 STUDENTS.

THEY JOIN MANY OTHER HBCUS WHO HAVE USED FEDERAL MONEY FROM THE AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN AND CARES ACT TO RELIEVE THE DEBT BURDEN FOR STUDENTS.

SO FAR HERE IN NORTH CAROLINA, THOSE UNIVERSITIES INCLUDE LIVINGSTONE, SHAW, ELIZABETH CITY STATE UNIVERSITY, JOHNSON C SMITH UNIVERSITY, FAYETTEVILLE STATE AND SAINT AUGUSTINES UNIVERSITY WHICH CANCELED 8 MILLION DOLLARS IN STUDENT DEBT.

HBCUS ACTUALLY RECEIVED 2.6 BILLION OF THE 40 BILLION DOLLAR COVID RELIEF DOLLARS SET ASIDE FOR HIGHER EDUCATION THAT'S ABOUT 6 AND A HALF PERCENT.

ACCORDING TO UNCF HBCUS MAKE UP ONLY 3% OF THE COUNTRY'S COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES, HOWEVER THEY ENROLL 10% OF ALL AFRICAN-AMERICAN STUDENTS AND PRODUCE ALMOST 20% OF ALL AFRICAN AMERICAN GRADUATES.

COURTNEY, HOW HBCU SHOWING UP FOR THEIR STUDENTS IN THE MIDST OF THIS PANDEMIC?

>> WELL, THEY ARE REALLY SENDING A BEAUTIFUL MESSAGE TO THE REST OF THE COUNTRY ABOUT HOW ADMINISTRATORS AND INSTITUTIONS CAN SUPPORT STUDENTS AND HOW THEY CAN HAVE A RIPPLE EFFECT INTO OUR COMMUNITY, AND SO YES, WE SEE DEBT BEING CLEARED AT ALL OF THESE HBCUS WHICH IS BEAUTIFUL, BUT I ALSO WANT TO POINT OUT THE HBCUS HAVE DONE AN INCREDIBLE JOB SUPPORTING THEIR STUDENTS AND THE HEALTH OF THEIR STUDENTS AND FACULTY THROUGHOUT THE PANDEMIC THERE HAVE NOT BEEN THE MAJOR BREAKOUT AND ISSUES THAT WE'VE SEEN IN OTHER LARGER SYSTEMS LIKE THE UNC SYSTEM LIKE NC STATE AND DUKE THAT ARE HAPPENING HBCUS AND I REALLY THINK THEY SHOULD BE COMING TO THOSE ADMINISTRATORS AND ASKING HOW DO YOU CREATE A CULTURE OF COLLECTIVE CARE AND RESPONSIBILITY TO CREATE SUCH A HEALTHY I'M LEARNING AND WORKING ENVIRONMENT AND SO I REALLY WANT TO CRUNCH CONGRATULATE HIM ON THAT AS WELL AS RECENTLY THE USDA WAS ABLE TO GIVE OVER 21 MILLION DOLLARS TO LAND GRANT UNIVERSITIES - MANY OF THOSE ARE HBCUS - TO HELP BLACK FARMERS AND SO THE BEAUTIFUL THING ABOUT HBCUS RIGHT NOW IS THAT THEY ARE ALLOWING TO SUPPORT TO FLOW THROUGH THEIR INSTITUTIONS AND NOT JUST BOTTLENECK IN THEIR INSTITUTIONS AND THAT IS A MESSAGE THAT THE REST OF THE COUNTRY NEEDS RIGHT NOW.

>> YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

THEY'RE SHOWING TRUE LEADERSHIP, AND OUR GREAT EXAMPLE OF HOW YOU CARE FOR THAT CLIENT AND ALSO HOW YOU EXTEND WHAT YOU HAVE TO THEM, AND THE NUMBERS SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES IN TERMS OF HOW MANY GRADUATES COME OUT OF THESE INSTITUTIONS HAVING COME IN AT A DEFICIT IN MANY WAYS BUT THEN CERTAINLY A CONTRIBUTING TO SOCIETY DOCTOR SMALLWOOD THIS WILL HELP THOSE WHO ARE CURRENTLY ENROLLED FORBES MAGAZINE REPORTED THIS IS A RACIAL WEALTH GAP GAME CHANGER BUT BUT HOW MUCH IS IT REALLY IS A GAME CHANGER?

>> WELL I'M SAYING THAT MANY AFRICAN-AMERICANS, PARTICULARLY THOSE WHO COME FROM DISADVANTAGED AND POOR BACKGROUNDS AND I WOULD COUNT MYSELF AMONG THAT GROUP THAT FIRST GENERATION FAMILY, VERY POOR FROM BERTIE COUNTY.

THAT WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO USE STICKS AND STONES AND REALLY MAKE THINGS, REALLY CREATE THINGS.

AND HBCUS A BEEN A MAJOR PART OF THAT IN TERMS OF UPLIFT REALLY FROM THE TIME OF SLAVERY IN TERMS OF ASSISTING PEOPLE WITH GIFTS THAT WE'RE GETTING LIKE THE MACKENSIE SCOTT GIFT THAT WAS GIVEN TO NORTH CAROLINIA A&T WE'VE BEEN YOU KNOW TRYING TO SUPPORT OUR STUDENTS, GIVE THEM SCHOLARSHIP MONEY, SUPPORT THEM IN THEIR ENDEAVORS, AND AGAIN, YES, YOU KNOW WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT OUR STUDENTS ARE NOT ONLY ACADEMICALLY PREPARED TO BE COMPETITIVE IN THE NEW WORK FORCE, BUT WE WANT TO HELP THEM PARTICULARLY FIRST GENERATIONS BECAUSE I THINK ALL HBCUS HAVE A PERCENTAGE OF THEIR POPULATION THAT IS FIRST GENERATION, YOU KNOW AND CERTAINLY COMING FROM A DISADVANTAGED BACKGROUND, WHETHER IT'S THE URBAN BACKGROUND OR RURAL BACKGROUND.

>> I DON'T WANT TO MAKE THE MISTAKE.

I DON'T WANT TO MAKE THE MISTAKE, ACTUALLY, OF ASSUMING WHAT YOU KNOW ALL OF THESE HBCUS ARE DOING THEIR PART TO HELP OUT IN AN EMERGENCY AND NOW BASED ON THAT WE HAVE A RACIAL WEALTH GAP CHANGE.

THE REALITY IS THESE SCHOOLS HAVE BEEN FINANCIALLY.

MANY OF THEM ANEMIC FOR A LONG TIME AND THE EMERGENCY RELIEF FUNDS COME INTO TO TRY TO EVEN THEM BACK OUT TO THAT ANEMIC POSITION.

SO HOW MUCH HAS THE RACIAL WEALTH GAP CHANGED FOR THIS GRADUATING CLASS AND FOR A COUPLE OF OTHERS PAST, IT'S CERTAINLY GOING TO HELP AND THAT IS GREATLY APPRECIATED.

BUT THERE'S MORE I WOULD SAY THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE IN ORDER TO TRY TO YOU KNOW GET TO RACIAL WEALTH GAP DIMINISHMENT.

>> CERTAINLY I MEAN, AND THAT'S GOING TO BE THE CASE NO MATTER WHERE.

I MEAN AGAIN IF WE TALK ABOUT CHAPEL HILL WHICH IS PROBABLY CLOSE TO 25% AFRICAN AMERICAN.

I MEAN THERE ARE NUMEROUS STUDENTS THERE WHO YOU KNOW REALLY CAN'T AFFORD THEIR EDUCATION.

SO THIS IS NOT JUST HBCU I MEAN TODAY WITH INTEGRATION THERE ARE AFRICAN AMERICAN STUDENTS AT DUKE ALL OVER THE PLACE IT MAY BE THE -- AND MANY HAVE BEEN CANNOT AFFORD THE TUITION OF A DUKE OR A WAKE FOREST, AND SO UNLESS THEY'RE ON SCHOLARSHIP.

IF THEY LOSE THAT SCHOLARSHIP THERE HAVE A STAGGERING AMOUNT OF DEBT FOR WHAT THEY MAY BE GETTING A DEGREE IN.

SO THE RACIAL WEALTH GAP IS NOT GOING TO BE RESOLVED BY THE FUNDS THAT ARE COMING FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT BECAUSE WE'RE ALREADY IN A DESPERATE SITUATION.

THE A&T IS A MAJOR PART OF THE GREENSBORO COMMUNITY AND THE TRIAD COMMUNITY, WE WERE A LEADER IN HAVING SHOTS GIVING SHOTS TO PEOPLE IN THE GREENSBORO COMMUNITY FOR VACCINES FOR COVID AND GETTING INFORMATION OUT TO THE COMMUNITY, WE HAVE AN ALZHEIMERS INSTITUTE WE WORK WITH AFRICAN AMERICAN FAMILIES.

WE ARE A MAJOR PART OF THE GREENSBORO COMMUNITY AND WE'RE LOVED BY THE GREENSBORO COMMUNITY AND LEADING IN OUR COMMUNITY AND IN OUR STATE AND IN OUR NATION.

TO ME, IT'S LIKE TO ME IS APPLES AND ORANGES, WE'VE ALWAYS AGAIN TAKEN STICKS AND STONES TO CREATE GREAT LEADERS AND PEOPLE WHO ARE VERY SUCCESSFUL.

WE DON'T HAVE THE RESOURCES OF A DUKE OR CAROLINA, OR SOME OF THE OTHER MAJOR INSTITUTIONS, BUT WE'VE TAKEN THE RESOURCES THAT WE HAVE AND WE MANAGE THEM WELL AND WE'VE PRODUCED QUALITY STUDENTS WHO HAVE GONE ON TO BE VERY SUCCESSFUL.

>> WELL THAT IS CLEAR THAT IS ABSOLUTELY CLEAR AND JESSE THIS EMERGENCY RELIEF FUNDING, THE SCHOOLS COULD APPLY TO FUNDS OWED THEM BUT NOT NECESSARILY TO FEDERAL STUDENT LOANS.

SO IS THERE ANY WAY TO GO AFTER THAT DEBT?

>> WELL RIGHT NOW I THINK THE PROBLEM IS THAT EVERYTHING IS TIED TO COVID, SO WE HAD TO CHANGE THE WAY THAT WE DID OUR ACADEMICS.

WE HAD TO CONVERT TO ZOOM CLASSES.

AND THERE WAS A COST TO THAT THERE'S ALSO A PENALTY TO THOSE PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T HAVE INTERNET ACCESSIBILITY.

SO WHAT THIS DOES IS TRY TO AT LEAST ALLOW OR PATCH TOGETHER SOME RELIEF FOR THE STUDENTS IN THE CURRENT TIME.

THE HOPE HERE IS THAT IF YOU HAVE THESE ADDITIONAL GRANT FUNDS AND STUDENTS ARE ABLE TO RECEIVE THOSE THAT THEY MAY NOT NECESSARILY NEED TO TAKE OUT THE ADDITIONAL FEDERAL FUNDING THAT THEY WOULD NORMALLY TAKE OUT.

BUT RIGHT NOW THERE DOESN'T SEEM TO BE ANY CONSENSUS ON ANY KIND OF ALLEVIATE SOME OF THE STUDENT LOAN DEBT AND I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT IS GOING TO BE THE ISSUE OF OF TOMORROW.

>> THIS WEEK MARKS THE 56TH ANNIVERSARY OF THE 1965 VOTING RIGHTS ACT WAS SIGNED ON 8/4/1965 AND AS MANY OF US NO LESS THAN 50 YEARS LATER IN 2013.

THE SUPREME COURT STRUCK DOWN A CRUCIAL ELEMENT OF THAT LAW THE REQUIREMENT THAT THOSE STATES WITH A HISTORY OF DISCRIMINATION OBTAIN FEDERAL APPROVAL FOR NEW LAWS ON VOTING RIGHTS SINCE THAT TIME GROUPS HAVE PUSHED TO REINSTITUTE THAT PROVISION THROUGH THE JOHN LEWIS VOTING RIGHTS ACT AND ALSO S-1, THE FOR THE PEOPLE ACT I'M GOING TO OPEN UP WITH YOU COURTNEY, YOU KNOW THE BLACK CHURCH WAS ON THE FRONT LINES LEADING THE FIGHT FOR VOTING RIGHTS AND FOR JUSTICE IN THE 1960'S WHERE DO YOU THINK THE POLITICAL INFLUENCE OF THE BLACK CHURCH STANDS TODAY.

>> I THINK THAT'S SUCH A GOOD QUESTION BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE THERE IS DEFINITELY - THERE IS A THERE IS A LAG IN THE WAY FOR MANY YEARS IN THE WAY THAT THE BLACK CHURCH HAS SHOWN SHOWED UP FOR ACTIVISM BUT I FEEL LIKE THERE'S DEFINITELY A RESURGENCE HAPPENING.

THE MARCH THAT YOU SAW IN GRAHAM LAST YEAR THE MARCH TO THE POLLS WAS ACTUALLY LED BY A PASTOR.

AND HE WAS ONE OF THE FIRST PEOPLE WHO WERE ARRESTED AND I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND THAT THIS NEW GENERATION OF FAITH LEADERS IS VERY VERY MUCH CONCERNED WITH THE RIGHTS OF THEIR PEERS, WHETHER THAT BE CRIMINAL JUSTICE ISSUES AND POLICE BRUTALITY WHETHER THAT THE ISSUES OF HOUSING ISSUES OF POVERTY AND ALSO OF COURSE ISSUES OF VOTING RIGHTS.

THEY ARE IN THE SAME SPIRIT AS JOHN LEWIS AND THEY ARE PUTTING THEMSELVES OUT THERE AND ALL THE GREAT MINISTERS THAT WE HAVE OUT THERE RIGHT NOW LEADING THE WAY OUR ELDERS LIKE REVEREND BARBER, REVEREND JESSE JACKSON AND OTHERS WE'VE DECIDED YOU KNOW WHAT WE HAVE A FAITH THAT INCLUDES ACTIVISM AND THEY'RE GETTING OUT THERE AND THEY ARE DOING THEIR PART.

>> AND DOCTOR SMALLWOOD THERE IS THIS IDEA THAT IT'S THE MORAL IMPERATIVE THAT IS DRIVING POLICY TODAY BUT WE'RE DEALING WITH A VERY DIFFERENT ENVIRONMENT AND A VERY DIFFERENT LEGISLATURE, SO WHAT HOPE DO YOU HAVE FOR THE PASSAGE OF THE JOHN LEWIS VOTING RIGHTS ACT AND ALSO FOR THE FOR THE PEOPLE ACT THEY THEY'VE BEEN OUT THERE FOR SOME TIME NOW.

>> THOSE ARE VERY DIFFICULT QUESTIONS BECAUSE A PERSON YOU KNOW GROWING UP IN THE ERA THAT I GREW UP IN LATE 70'S, 80'S EARLY 80'S.

I WOULD NEVER HAVE THOUGHT WE WERE AS A NATION WOULD BE WHERE WE ARE TODAY.

I MEAN THERE'S A LOT OF OPTIMISM WITH INTEGRATION AND SO FORTH THAT THERE WAS A LOT OF OPTIMISM IN THE 80'S 90'S.

IF THE NATION DOES NOT WORK TO RESOLVE THIS POLARIZATION THAT'S EXISTING IN THE COUNTRY.

IT'S GOING TO BE DIFFICULT FOR US TO MOVE ANY TYPE OF LEGISLATION OR AND YOU KNOW WE AND WITH THE PANDEMIC AND THE OTHER THINGS THAT WE'RE CONFRONTED WITH IN THE FUTURE INFRASTRUCTURE, WHICH DOES NEED TO BE REPAIRED, EDUCATION, LIKE YOU SAID AGAIN THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM, WE HAVE VERY DIFFICULT ISSUES THAT NEED TO BE RESOLVED.

AND IF WE DON'T -- WE HAVE TO FIND A WAY.

I KIND OF HAVE A SHORT ANSWER FOR YOU.

I DO WORK PERSONALLY I TRY TO WORK WITH GROUPS OF ALL BACKGROUNDS AND OF ALL POLITICAL PERSUASIONS TO HELP PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THE OLD WAY IN WHICH THINGS WERE DONE WHETHER IT'S HERE IN NORTH CAROLINA PARTICULARLY HERE IN NORTH CAROLINA WAS THAT PEOPLE HAVE THAT UNDERSTANDING AND CONSENSUS THAT WHAT WAS BEING DONE WAS FOR THE BEST INTEREST OF THE STATE OF NORTH CAROLINA WHETHER WE'RE TALKING ABOUT FUNDING EDUCATION OUR UNIVERSITY SYSTEMS WHETHER WE'RE TALKING ABOUT OUR K THROUGH 12.

AND THERE WAS A CONSENSUS AMONG DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS, AND AMONGST MANY PEOPLE IN THE STATE THAT THESE THINGS ARE NECESSARY, THE ROADS, BUILDING GOOD ROADS, IN NORTH CAROLINA WHO BECAME KNOWN AS THE GOOD ROAD STATE.

SO IT IS IMPORTANT BUT NOW WE'VE CHANGE WE DOUBLED IN SIZE.

WE HAVE SOME OF THE SAME POLITICAL DIVISIONS THAT EXIST AND OTHER KINDS OF OTHER STATES.

BUT WE HAVE TO STAY IN THE CASE OF NORTH CAROLINA.

>> WE HAVE TO STAY TRUE TO WHAT BROUGHT US TO WHERE WE ARE TODAY -- >> ABSOLUTELY AND THAT'S A VERY HONEST ASSESSMENT, VERY HONEST KIND OF PERSPECTIVE TO SHARE WITH US.

JESSE WHAT ARE YOUR HOPES FOR PASSING EITHER PIECES OF THESE LEGISLATION?

>> SO I THINK THE DEGREE OF PARTISANSHIP THAT WE'VE SEEN OVER THE PAST REALLY THE PAST 4 YEARS.

WE KIND OF KNOW WHAT THE RESULT IS GOING TO BE THERE'S GOING TO BE LARGE MOBILIZATION, LARGE EFFORT TO ENSURE THAT BLACK PEOPLE ESSENTIALLY DON'T GET THE RIGHTS THAT THEY SHOULD HAVE, THAT WE ALREADY HAVE FOUGHT FOR OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

AND HONESTLY I MEAN IT MAY BE CONTROVERSIAL, BUT SOMETIMES IT GETS TIRING AND EXHAUSTING FIGHTING FOR SCRAPS THAT WE SHOULD ALREADY HAVE RIGHT.

SO AT THE SAME TIME I LOVE SEEING THAT BLACK CHURCHES AND BLACK MOVEMENTS AND BLACK LIVES MATTER AND EVERYBODY COMING TOGETHER TO PUSH MOVEMENTS AND FORCE THESE QUESTIONS AND FORCE THESE CONVERSATIONS, BUT THE PROBLEM IS UNTIL YOU HAVE THE NUMBERS, EVERYTHING THAT WE DO WE ALWAYS HAVE TO HAVE A COALITION OF ALLIES AND SUPPORT AND IT'S IT'S VERY DIFFICULT FOR US TO GET OUR BASIC NEEDS BECAUSE WHAT HAPPENS IS EVERYBODY ELSE CHIPS AWAY FROM WHAT WE NEED TO GET WHAT THEY WANT AND LEAVES US WITH WITH NOTHING AND SO WE'RE FIGHTING FOR THE SAME QUESTIONS.

SO I WANT TO BE OPTIMISTIC BUT AT THE SAME TIME I WATCH CNN AND PBS.

[LAUGHTER] >> WE APPRECIATE THAT YOU'VE ALL BEEN SO HONEST AND I APPRECIATE BEING A PART OF THE PROGRAM.

JESSE MCCOY, COURTNEY NAPIER, DOCTOR ARWIN SMALLWOOD, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME TODAY AND FOR YOUR INSIGHTS, >> THANK YOU FOR HAVING US >> THANK YOU.

>> I WANT TO THANK TODAYS GUESTS.

WE INVITE YOU TO ENGAGE WITH US TWITTER OR INSTAGRAM USING THE HASHTAG "BLACK ISSUES FORUM".

YOU CAN ALSO FIND OUR FULL EPISODES ON PBSNC.ORG/BLACKISSUESFORUM.

OR LISTEN AT ANY TIME ON APPLE ITUNES, SPOTIFY, OR GOOGLE PODCASTS.

FOR BLACK ISSUES FORUM, I'M DEBORAH HOLT NOEL.

THANKS FOR WATCHING!

♪ - QUALITY PUBLIC TELEVISION IS MADE POSSIBLE THROUGH THE FINANCIAL CONTRIBUTIONS OF VIEWERS LIKE YOU WHO INVITE YOU TO JOIN THEM IN SUPPORTING PBS NC.