♪ ♪ >>> COMING UP, LUCKY SEVERSON ♪ >>> COMING UP, LUCKY SEVERSON REPORTS ON BRAIN SCANNING THAT >>> COMING UP, LUCKY SEVERSON REPORTS ON BRAIN SCANNING THAT COULD HELP PREDICT WHETHER REPORTS ON BRAIN SCANNING THAT COULD HELP PREDICT WHETHER SOMEONE MIGHT COMMIT TERRIBLE COULD HELP PREDICT WHETHER SOMEONE MIGHT COMMIT TERRIBLE VIOLENCE.

SOMEONE MIGHT COMMIT TERRIBLE VIOLENCE.

SHOULD IT BE USED?

VIOLENCE.

SHOULD IT BE USED?

AND A REPORT CARD ON POPE SHOULD IT BE USED?

AND A REPORT CARD ON POPE FRANCIS MORE THAN SEVEN MONTHS AND A REPORT CARD ON POPE FRANCIS MORE THAN SEVEN MONTHS INTO HIS PAPACY.

FRANCIS MORE THAN SEVEN MONTHS INTO HIS PAPACY.

WHAT EFFECT IS HE HAVING ON THE INTO HIS PAPACY.

WHAT EFFECT IS HE HAVING ON THE AMERICAN CATHOLIC CHURCH?

WHAT EFFECT IS HE HAVING ON THE AMERICAN CATHOLIC CHURCH?

A HIGHLY CONTROVERSIAL BOOK AMERICAN CATHOLIC CHURCH?

A HIGHLY CONTROVERSIAL BOOK ABOUT JESUSREMENT A HIGHLY CONTROVERSIAL BOOK ABOUT JESUSREMENT COMPANY.

ABOUT JESUSREMENT COMPANY.

>> WELCOME.

COMPANY.

>> WELCOME.

I'M BOB ABERNATHY.

>> WELCOME.

I'M BOB ABERNATHY.

IT'S GOOD TO HAVE YOU WITH US.

I'M BOB ABERNATHY.

IT'S GOOD TO HAVE YOU WITH US.

RELIGIOUS LEADERS ARE AMONG IT'S GOOD TO HAVE YOU WITH US.

RELIGIOUS LEADERS ARE AMONG THOSE CRITICIZING NEW CUTS TO RELIGIOUS LEADERS ARE AMONG THOSE CRITICIZING NEW CUTS TO THE U.S. FOOD STAMP PROGRAM THAT THOSE CRITICIZING NEW CUTS TO THE U.S. FOOD STAMP PROGRAM THAT TOOK EFFECT NOVEMBER 1st.

THE U.S. FOOD STAMP PROGRAM THAT TOOK EFFECT NOVEMBER 1st.

FOR MONTHS FAITH-BASED GROUPS TOOK EFFECT NOVEMBER 1st.

FOR MONTHS FAITH-BASED GROUPS HAVE WARNED THIS WOULD HURT FOR MONTHS FAITH-BASED GROUPS HAVE WARNED THIS WOULD HURT STRUGGLING AMERICANS AND STRAIN HAVE WARNED THIS WOULD HURT STRUGGLING AMERICANS AND STRAIN THE RESOURCES OF CHARITIES THAT STRUGGLING AMERICANS AND STRAIN THE RESOURCES OF CHARITIES THAT HELP THE POOR.

THE RESOURCES OF CHARITIES THAT HELP THE POOR.

THE NEW CUTS, WHICH TOTAL $5 HELP THE POOR.

THE NEW CUTS, WHICH TOTAL $5 BILLION OVER THE NEXT YEAR, THE NEW CUTS, WHICH TOTAL $5 BILLION OVER THE NEXT YEAR, AFFECT NEARLY 48 MILLION BILLION OVER THE NEXT YEAR, AFFECT NEARLY 48 MILLION AMERICANS WHO RECEIVE BENEFITS AFFECT NEARLY 48 MILLION AMERICANS WHO RECEIVE BENEFITS UNDER THE SUPPLEMENTAL NUTRITION AMERICANS WHO RECEIVE BENEFITS UNDER THE SUPPLEMENTAL NUTRITION ASSISTANCE PROGRAM, OR S.N.A.P.

UNDER THE SUPPLEMENTAL NUTRITION ASSISTANCE PROGRAM, OR S.N.A.P.

EXPERTS ESTIMATE THOSE ON FOOD ASSISTANCE PROGRAM, OR S.N.A.P.

EXPERTS ESTIMATE THOSE ON FOOD STAMPS WILL RECEIVE BETWEEN 5% EXPERTS ESTIMATE THOSE ON FOOD STAMPS WILL RECEIVE BETWEEN 5% AND 8% LESS.

STAMPS WILL RECEIVE BETWEEN 5% AND 8% LESS.

NEXT WEEK CONGRESS WILL DEBATE AND 8% LESS.

NEXT WEEK CONGRESS WILL DEBATE MAKING EVEN LARGER CUTS OVER THE NEXT WEEK CONGRESS WILL DEBATE MAKING EVEN LARGER CUTS OVER THE NEXT DECADE.

MAKING EVEN LARGER CUTS OVER THE NEXT DECADE.

>>> THIS WEEK MARKED THE NEXT DECADE.

>>> THIS WEEK MARKED THE ONE-YEAR ANNIVERSARY OF >>> THIS WEEK MARKED THE ONE-YEAR ANNIVERSARY OF HURRICANE SANDY, THE DEADLY ONE-YEAR ANNIVERSARY OF HURRICANE SANDY, THE DEADLY STORM THAT DEVASTATED PARTS OF HURRICANE SANDY, THE DEADLY STORM THAT DEVASTATED PARTS OF THE MID-ATLANTIC COAST, LEAVING STORM THAT DEVASTATED PARTS OF THE MID-ATLANTIC COAST, LEAVING THOUSANDS HOMELESS AND CAUSING THE MID-ATLANTIC COAST, LEAVING THOUSANDS HOMELESS AND CAUSING MANY BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN THOUSANDS HOMELESS AND CAUSING MANY BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN DAMAGE.

MANY BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN DAMAGE.

A YEAR LATER FAITH-BASED RELIEF DAMAGE.

A YEAR LATER FAITH-BASED RELIEF EFFORTS ARE STILL UNDER WAY IN A YEAR LATER FAITH-BASED RELIEF EFFORTS ARE STILL UNDER WAY IN NEW YORK AND NEW JERSEY, WHERE EFFORTS ARE STILL UNDER WAY IN NEW YORK AND NEW JERSEY, WHERE MUCH OF THE DAMAGE OCCURRED.

NEW YORK AND NEW JERSEY, WHERE MUCH OF THE DAMAGE OCCURRED.

DENOMINATIONAL GROUPS SUCH AS MUCH OF THE DAMAGE OCCURRED.

DENOMINATIONAL GROUPS SUCH AS SOUTHERN BAPTIST DISASTER RELIEF DENOMINATIONAL GROUPS SUCH AS SOUTHERN BAPTIST DISASTER RELIEF HAVE PLEDGED TO CONTINUE EFFORTS SOUTHERN BAPTIST DISASTER RELIEF HAVE PLEDGED TO CONTINUE EFFORTS TO REBUILD HOMES AND HAVE PLEDGED TO CONTINUE EFFORTS TO REBUILD HOMES AND NEIGHBORHOODS THAT SANDY TO REBUILD HOMES AND NEIGHBORHOODS THAT SANDY DESTROYED.

NEIGHBORHOODS THAT SANDY DESTROYED.

>>> THERE WERE MIXED REACTIONS DESTROYED.

>>> THERE WERE MIXED REACTIONS AFTER LAST WEEK'S ANNOUNCEMENT >>> THERE WERE MIXED REACTIONS AFTER LAST WEEK'S ANNOUNCEMENT THAT AIR FORCE CADETS WILL NO AFTER LAST WEEK'S ANNOUNCEMENT THAT AIR FORCE CADETS WILL NO LONGER BE REQUIRED TO SAY "SO THAT AIR FORCE CADETS WILL NO LONGER BE REQUIRED TO SAY "SO HELP ME GOD" WHEN TAKING THEIR LONGER BE REQUIRED TO SAY "SO HELP ME GOD" WHEN TAKING THEIR HONOR OATH.

HELP ME GOD" WHEN TAKING THEIR HONOR OATH.

THE AIR FORCE ACADEMY IN HONOR OATH.

THE AIR FORCE ACADEMY IN COLORADO SPRINGS DECIDED TO MAKE THE AIR FORCE ACADEMY IN COLORADO SPRINGS DECIDED TO MAKE THE LANGUAGE OPTIONAL AFTER A COLORADO SPRINGS DECIDED TO MAKE THE LANGUAGE OPTIONAL AFTER A COMPLAINT THAT IT VIOLATED THE THE LANGUAGE OPTIONAL AFTER A COMPLAINT THAT IT VIOLATED THE CADETS' FREEDOM OF RELIGION.

COMPLAINT THAT IT VIOLATED THE CADETS' FREEDOM OF RELIGION.

THE DECISION AND THE REACTIONS CADETS' FREEDOM OF RELIGION.

THE DECISION AND THE REACTIONS TO IT HIGHLIGHT THE ONGOING THE DECISION AND THE REACTIONS TO IT HIGHLIGHT THE ONGOING DEBATE OVER THE ROLE OF RELIGION TO IT HIGHLIGHT THE ONGOING DEBATE OVER THE ROLE OF RELIGION IN THE U.S. MILITARY.

DEBATE OVER THE ROLE OF RELIGION IN THE U.S. MILITARY.

>>> WE HAVE A LUCKY SEVERSON IN THE U.S. MILITARY.

>>> WE HAVE A LUCKY SEVERSON REPORT NOW ON MEDICAL RESEARCH >>> WE HAVE A LUCKY SEVERSON REPORT NOW ON MEDICAL RESEARCH THAT RAISES THE QUESTION, REPORT NOW ON MEDICAL RESEARCH THAT RAISES THE QUESTION, SUPPOSE YOU COULD SCAN A CHILD'S THAT RAISES THE QUESTION, SUPPOSE YOU COULD SCAN A CHILD'S BRAIN AND TELL WHETHER HE OR SHE SUPPOSE YOU COULD SCAN A CHILD'S BRAIN AND TELL WHETHER HE OR SHE COULD BECOME DANGEROUSLY VIOLENT BRAIN AND TELL WHETHER HE OR SHE COULD BECOME DANGEROUSLY VIOLENT IN THE FUTURE.

COULD BECOME DANGEROUSLY VIOLENT IN THE FUTURE.

WOULD IT BE RIGHT TO HAVE THAT IN THE FUTURE.

WOULD IT BE RIGHT TO HAVE THAT KNOWLEDGE?

WOULD IT BE RIGHT TO HAVE THAT KNOWLEDGE?

OR WHAT IF IT WERE A CONVICTED KNOWLEDGE?

OR WHAT IF IT WERE A CONVICTED CRIMINAL?

OR WHAT IF IT WERE A CONVICTED CRIMINAL?

SHOULD BRAIN SCANS HELP DECIDE CRIMINAL?

SHOULD BRAIN SCANS HELP DECIDE WHETHER A CONVICT SHOULD BE SHOULD BRAIN SCANS HELP DECIDE WHETHER A CONVICT SHOULD BE PAROLED?

WHETHER A CONVICT SHOULD BE PAROLED?

>> THERE IS ALWAYS THE ONE BIG PAROLED?

>> THERE IS ALWAYS THE ONE BIG QUESTION AFTER MASS KILLINGS IN >> THERE IS ALWAYS THE ONE BIG QUESTION AFTER MASS KILLINGS IN PLACES LIKE THE AURORA THEATER, QUESTION AFTER MASS KILLINGS IN PLACES LIKE THE AURORA THEATER, SANDY HOOK ELEMENTARY, VIRGINIA PLACES LIKE THE AURORA THEATER, SANDY HOOK ELEMENTARY, VIRGINIA TECH.

SANDY HOOK ELEMENTARY, VIRGINIA TECH.

COULD THIS VIOLENCE HAVE BEEN TECH.

COULD THIS VIOLENCE HAVE BEEN PREDICTED OR EVEN PREVENTED?

COULD THIS VIOLENCE HAVE BEEN PREDICTED OR EVEN PREVENTED?

>> I BELIEVE FIRMLY THERE ARE PREDICTED OR EVEN PREVENTED?

>> I BELIEVE FIRMLY THERE ARE THINGS WE CAN DO TO NOT JUST >> I BELIEVE FIRMLY THERE ARE THINGS WE CAN DO TO NOT JUST TREAT VIOLENCE BUT ALSO PREVENT THINGS WE CAN DO TO NOT JUST TREAT VIOLENCE BUT ALSO PREVENT IT.

TREAT VIOLENCE BUT ALSO PREVENT IT.

>> Reporter: ADRIAN RAINE IS A IT.

>> Reporter: ADRIAN RAINE IS A PROFESSOR AT THE UNIVERSITY OF >> Reporter: ADRIAN RAINE IS A PROFESSOR AT THE UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA AND A PIONEER IN PROFESSOR AT THE UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA AND A PIONEER IN THE FIELD OF NEUROCRIMINOLOGY.

PENNSYLVANIA AND A PIONEER IN THE FIELD OF NEUROCRIMINOLOGY.

HE HAS WRITTEN A CONTROVERSIAL THE FIELD OF NEUROCRIMINOLOGY.

HE HAS WRITTEN A CONTROVERSIAL BOOK CALLED "THE ANATOMY OF HE HAS WRITTEN A CONTROVERSIAL BOOK CALLED "THE ANATOMY OF VIOLENCE: THE BIOLOGICAL ROOTS BOOK CALLED "THE ANATOMY OF VIOLENCE: THE BIOLOGICAL ROOTS OF CRIME."

VIOLENCE: THE BIOLOGICAL ROOTS OF CRIME."

>> IT'S BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT OF CRIME."

>> IT'S BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT NOW THAT THERE IS THIS BRAIN >> IT'S BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT NOW THAT THERE IS THIS BRAIN BASIS TO CRIME.

NOW THAT THERE IS THIS BRAIN BASIS TO CRIME.

THIS RESEARCH AT ONE POINT WAS BASIS TO CRIME.

THIS RESEARCH AT ONE POINT WAS SUPPRESSED AND IGNORED BY SOCIAL THIS RESEARCH AT ONE POINT WAS SUPPRESSED AND IGNORED BY SOCIAL SCIENTISTS FOR LOTS OF ETHICAL SUPPRESSED AND IGNORED BY SOCIAL SCIENTISTS FOR LOTS OF ETHICAL REASONS, BASICALLY.

SCIENTISTS FOR LOTS OF ETHICAL REASONS, BASICALLY.

BUT NOW WE'RE OUT IN THE OPEN REASONS, BASICALLY.

BUT NOW WE'RE OUT IN THE OPEN WITH THIS INFORMATION AND WE BUT NOW WE'RE OUT IN THE OPEN WITH THIS INFORMATION AND WE CAN'T GO ON IGNORING IT ANYMORE.

WITH THIS INFORMATION AND WE CAN'T GO ON IGNORING IT ANYMORE.

>> I HAVE ENORMOUS RESPECT FOR CAN'T GO ON IGNORING IT ANYMORE.

>> I HAVE ENORMOUS RESPECT FOR ADRIAN RAINE, AND I THINK HE'S >> I HAVE ENORMOUS RESPECT FOR ADRIAN RAINE, AND I THINK HE'S AN EXCELLENT SCIENTIST.

ADRIAN RAINE, AND I THINK HE'S AN EXCELLENT SCIENTIST.

I CANNOT THINK OF ANYTHING MORE AN EXCELLENT SCIENTIST.

I CANNOT THINK OF ANYTHING MORE DANGEROUS THAN HIS POLICY I CANNOT THINK OF ANYTHING MORE DANGEROUS THAN HIS POLICY RECOMMENDATIONS.

DANGEROUS THAN HIS POLICY RECOMMENDATIONS.

>> Reporter: PAUL WOLPE DIRECTS RECOMMENDATIONS.

>> Reporter: PAUL WOLPE DIRECTS THE CENTER FOR ETHICS AT EMORY >> Reporter: PAUL WOLPE DIRECTS THE CENTER FOR ETHICS AT EMORY UNIVERSITY AND A CO-EDITOR OF THE CENTER FOR ETHICS AT EMORY UNIVERSITY AND A CO-EDITOR OF THE AMERICAN JOURNAL OF UNIVERSITY AND A CO-EDITOR OF THE AMERICAN JOURNAL OF BIOETHICS.

THE AMERICAN JOURNAL OF BIOETHICS.

HE LIKE OTHER SCIENTISTS BRIEFS BIOETHICS.

HE LIKE OTHER SCIENTISTS BRIEFS NEUROCRIMINOLOGY IS AN IMPORTANT HE LIKE OTHER SCIENTISTS BRIEFS NEUROCRIMINOLOGY IS AN IMPORTANT NEW BUT UNDEVELOPED SCIENCE WITH NEUROCRIMINOLOGY IS AN IMPORTANT NEW BUT UNDEVELOPED SCIENCE WITH SERIOUS MORAL IMPLICATIONS.

NEW BUT UNDEVELOPED SCIENCE WITH SERIOUS MORAL IMPLICATIONS.

>> WE FIND A NEW SCIENTIFIC SERIOUS MORAL IMPLICATIONS.

>> WE FIND A NEW SCIENTIFIC TECHNOLOGY, WE GET ALL EXCITED >> WE FIND A NEW SCIENTIFIC TECHNOLOGY, WE GET ALL EXCITED ABOUT IT, WE THINK IT WILL TECHNOLOGY, WE GET ALL EXCITED ABOUT IT, WE THINK IT WILL ANSWER PROBLEMS FOR US.

ABOUT IT, WE THINK IT WILL ANSWER PROBLEMS FOR US.

WE START TO IMPLEMENT IT, AND WE ANSWER PROBLEMS FOR US.

WE START TO IMPLEMENT IT, AND WE HURT PEOPLE.

WE START TO IMPLEMENT IT, AND WE HURT PEOPLE.

I WANT US TO HAVE THE ETHICAL HURT PEOPLE.

I WANT US TO HAVE THE ETHICAL WISDOM RIGHT NOW TO NOT RUSH TO I WANT US TO HAVE THE ETHICAL WISDOM RIGHT NOW TO NOT RUSH TO JUDGMENT ABOUT NEUROSCIENCE.

WISDOM RIGHT NOW TO NOT RUSH TO JUDGMENT ABOUT NEUROSCIENCE.

>> Reporter: RAINE HAS BEEN JUDGMENT ABOUT NEUROSCIENCE.

>> Reporter: RAINE HAS BEEN STUDYING THE CONNECTION BETWEEN >> Reporter: RAINE HAS BEEN STUDYING THE CONNECTION BETWEEN THE BRAIN AND VIOLENCE IN STUDYING THE CONNECTION BETWEEN THE BRAIN AND VIOLENCE IN CHILDREN AND ADULTS FOR 35 THE BRAIN AND VIOLENCE IN CHILDREN AND ADULTS FOR 35 YEARS.

CHILDREN AND ADULTS FOR 35 YEARS.

HE SAYS HIS RESEARCH SHOWS THAT YEARS.

HE SAYS HIS RESEARCH SHOWS THAT THE BRAINS OF PSYCHOPATHS HAVE A HE SAYS HIS RESEARCH SHOWS THAT THE BRAINS OF PSYCHOPATHS HAVE A DEFICIENCY IN THE PART THAT THE BRAINS OF PSYCHOPATHS HAVE A DEFICIENCY IN THE PART THAT GOVERNS FEELINGS OF REMORSE AND DEFICIENCY IN THE PART THAT GOVERNS FEELINGS OF REMORSE AND EMPATHY FOR THE VICTIMS.

GOVERNS FEELINGS OF REMORSE AND EMPATHY FOR THE VICTIMS.

>> WHAT WE SEE IN PSYCHOPATHS EMPATHY FOR THE VICTIMS.

>> WHAT WE SEE IN PSYCHOPATHS WHO ARE VERY FEARLESS >> WHAT WE SEE IN PSYCHOPATHS WHO ARE VERY FEARLESS INDIVIDUALS AND WHO CREATE A LOT WHO ARE VERY FEARLESS INDIVIDUALS AND WHO CREATE A LOT OF HARM TO SOCIETY IS THAT THEY INDIVIDUALS AND WHO CREATE A LOT OF HARM TO SOCIETY IS THAT THEY HAVE A REDUCTION IN A PART OF OF HARM TO SOCIETY IS THAT THEY HAVE A REDUCTION IN A PART OF THE BRAIN CALLED THE AMYGDALA, HAVE A REDUCTION IN A PART OF THE BRAIN CALLED THE AMYGDALA, THE PART OF THE BRAIN THAT'S THE BRAIN CALLED THE AMYGDALA, THE PART OF THE BRAIN THAT'S VERY MUCH INVOLVED IN MORAL THE PART OF THE BRAIN THAT'S VERY MUCH INVOLVED IN MORAL DECISION-MAKING, IN EMPATHY, IN VERY MUCH INVOLVED IN MORAL DECISION-MAKING, IN EMPATHY, IN CONSCIENCE, FEELING REMORSE, DECISION-MAKING, IN EMPATHY, IN CONSCIENCE, FEELING REMORSE, FEELING GUILT, WHICH IS ONE OF CONSCIENCE, FEELING REMORSE, FEELING GUILT, WHICH IS ONE OF THE REASONS THEY DO SUCH FEELING GUILT, WHICH IS ONE OF THE REASONS THEY DO SUCH TERRIBLE THINGS.

THE REASONS THEY DO SUCH TERRIBLE THINGS.

>> YOU'LL BE SHOWN A SERIES OF TERRIBLE THINGS.

>> YOU'LL BE SHOWN A SERIES OF SCENARIOS.

>> YOU'LL BE SHOWN A SERIES OF SCENARIOS.

YOU SHOULD IMMEDIATELY RESPOND SCENARIOS.

YOU SHOULD IMMEDIATELY RESPOND TO THE QUESTION BY PRESSING THE YOU SHOULD IMMEDIATELY RESPOND TO THE QUESTION BY PRESSING THE YES OR NO BUTTON.

TO THE QUESTION BY PRESSING THE YES OR NO BUTTON.

>> YOU TAKE NORMAL PEOPLE.

YES OR NO BUTTON.

>> YOU TAKE NORMAL PEOPLE.

AND IF YOU GIVE THEM A MORAL >> YOU TAKE NORMAL PEOPLE.

AND IF YOU GIVE THEM A MORAL DILEMMA LIKE WOULD YOU KILL ONE AND IF YOU GIVE THEM A MORAL DILEMMA LIKE WOULD YOU KILL ONE PERSON TO SAVE FIVE LIVES, DILEMMA LIKE WOULD YOU KILL ONE PERSON TO SAVE FIVE LIVES, THAT'S A DIFFICULT DECISION FOR PERSON TO SAVE FIVE LIVES, THAT'S A DIFFICULT DECISION FOR MANY OF US.

THAT'S A DIFFICULT DECISION FOR MANY OF US.

BUT WHEN WE DO THE SAME THING MANY OF US.

BUT WHEN WE DO THE SAME THING WITH PSYCHOPATHS, THEIR AMYGDALA BUT WHEN WE DO THE SAME THING WITH PSYCHOPATHS, THEIR AMYGDALA IS FUNCTIONING MUCH LESS, THEN WITH PSYCHOPATHS, THEIR AMYGDALA IS FUNCTIONING MUCH LESS, THEN HOW MORAL IS IT OF US TO PUNISH IS FUNCTIONING MUCH LESS, THEN HOW MORAL IS IT OF US TO PUNISH PSYCHOPATHS AS HARSHLY AS WE, DO HOW MORAL IS IT OF US TO PUNISH PSYCHOPATHS AS HARSHLY AS WE, DO ASSUMING THAT THEY NEVER ASKED PSYCHOPATHS AS HARSHLY AS WE, DO ASSUMING THAT THEY NEVER ASKED TO BE BORN WITH AN AMYGDALA THAT ASSUMING THAT THEY NEVER ASKED TO BE BORN WITH AN AMYGDALA THAT WAS BROKEN?

TO BE BORN WITH AN AMYGDALA THAT WAS BROKEN?

>> TWO PEOPLE OFTEN CAN HAVE A WAS BROKEN?

>> TWO PEOPLE OFTEN CAN HAVE A LESION OR SOME BRAIN AB >> TWO PEOPLE OFTEN CAN HAVE A LESION OR SOME BRAIN AB NORMALITY IN EXACTLY THE SAME LESION OR SOME BRAIN AB NORMALITY IN EXACTLY THE SAME PLACE, AND IT MANIFESTS ITSELF NORMALITY IN EXACTLY THE SAME PLACE, AND IT MANIFESTS ITSELF IN COMPLETELY DIFFERENT WAYS.

PLACE, AND IT MANIFESTS ITSELF IN COMPLETELY DIFFERENT WAYS.

>> RAINE AGREES THAT TWO PEOPLE IN COMPLETELY DIFFERENT WAYS.

>> RAINE AGREES THAT TWO PEOPLE CAN HAVE THE SAME DEFECT AND ONE >> RAINE AGREES THAT TWO PEOPLE CAN HAVE THE SAME DEFECT AND ONE MIGHT RESORT TO VIOLENT CRIME, CAN HAVE THE SAME DEFECT AND ONE MIGHT RESORT TO VIOLENT CRIME, THE OTHER TO VIOLENT SPORTS.

MIGHT RESORT TO VIOLENT CRIME, THE OTHER TO VIOLENT SPORTS.

BUT HE SAYS THERE ARE NOW MORE THE OTHER TO VIOLENT SPORTS.

BUT HE SAYS THERE ARE NOW MORE RELIABLE BIO MARKERS THAT SHOULD BUT HE SAYS THERE ARE NOW MORE RELIABLE BIO MARKERS THAT SHOULD NOT BE IGNORED.

RELIABLE BIO MARKERS THAT SHOULD NOT BE IGNORED.

>> BUT YOU LOOK AT THE MURDERER NOT BE IGNORED.

>> BUT YOU LOOK AT THE MURDERER HERE, AND YOU CAN SEE A DISTINCT >> BUT YOU LOOK AT THE MURDERER HERE, AND YOU CAN SEE A DISTINCT LACK OF ACTIVITY IN THAT HERE, AND YOU CAN SEE A DISTINCT LACK OF ACTIVITY IN THAT PREFRONTAL CORTEX.

LACK OF ACTIVITY IN THAT PREFRONTAL CORTEX.

>> SO THIS PERSON IS NOT SENSING PREFRONTAL CORTEX.

>> SO THIS PERSON IS NOT SENSING THAT RAPING THIS PERSON, KILLING >> SO THIS PERSON IS NOT SENSING THAT RAPING THIS PERSON, KILLING THIS PERSON IS WRONG, MORALLY THAT RAPING THIS PERSON, KILLING THIS PERSON IS WRONG, MORALLY REPREHENSIBLE?

THIS PERSON IS WRONG, MORALLY REPREHENSIBLE?

>> THAT'S CORRECT.

REPREHENSIBLE?

>> THAT'S CORRECT.

>> RAINE TESTIFIED AS AN EXPERT >> THAT'S CORRECT.

>> RAINE TESTIFIED AS AN EXPERT WITNESS IN THE TRIAL OF DONTA >> RAINE TESTIFIED AS AN EXPERT WITNESS IN THE TRIAL OF DONTA PAIGE, WHO BRUTALLY RAPED AND WITNESS IN THE TRIAL OF DONTA PAIGE, WHO BRUTALLY RAPED AND MURDERED A YOUNG WOMAN.

PAIGE, WHO BRUTALLY RAPED AND MURDERED A YOUNG WOMAN.

HIS TESTIMONY HELPED GET THE MURDERED A YOUNG WOMAN.

HIS TESTIMONY HELPED GET THE MAN'S SENTENCE REDUCED FROM THE HIS TESTIMONY HELPED GET THE MAN'S SENTENCE REDUCED FROM THE DEATH PENALTY TO LIFE IN PRISON.

MAN'S SENTENCE REDUCED FROM THE DEATH PENALTY TO LIFE IN PRISON.

>> SO DEFENSE ATTORNEYS ARE DEATH PENALTY TO LIFE IN PRISON.

>> SO DEFENSE ATTORNEYS ARE TAKING SCANS AND SAYING CAN I >> SO DEFENSE ATTORNEYS ARE TAKING SCANS AND SAYING CAN I FIND ANYTHING ABNORMAL IN THIS TAKING SCANS AND SAYING CAN I FIND ANYTHING ABNORMAL IN THIS SCAN?

FIND ANYTHING ABNORMAL IN THIS SCAN?

AND IF THEY DO, THEY CAN HOLD SCAN?

AND IF THEY DO, THEY CAN HOLD THAT UP IN FRONT OF A JURY AND AND IF THEY DO, THEY CAN HOLD THAT UP IN FRONT OF A JURY AND SAY LOOK AT THIS.

THAT UP IN FRONT OF A JURY AND SAY LOOK AT THIS.

THE NEUROSCIENCE EXPERT HAS TOLD SAY LOOK AT THIS.

THE NEUROSCIENCE EXPERT HAS TOLD US THAT THIS LOOKS ODD OR IS THE NEUROSCIENCE EXPERT HAS TOLD US THAT THIS LOOKS ODD OR IS DIFFERENT THAN AVERAGE.

US THAT THIS LOOKS ODD OR IS DIFFERENT THAN AVERAGE.

MY CLIENT COULDN'T HELP DIFFERENT THAN AVERAGE.

MY CLIENT COULDN'T HELP THEMSELVES.

MY CLIENT COULDN'T HELP THEMSELVES.

>> CUT THEM A BREAK.

THEMSELVES.

>> CUT THEM A BREAK.

YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T HOLD THEM >> CUT THEM A BREAK.

YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T HOLD THEM FULLY RESPONSIBLE AS WE DO WITH YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T HOLD THEM FULLY RESPONSIBLE AS WE DO WITH OTHER PEOPLE.

FULLY RESPONSIBLE AS WE DO WITH OTHER PEOPLE.

WE'RE NOT ALL EQUAL.

OTHER PEOPLE.

WE'RE NOT ALL EQUAL.

AND FOR SOME INDIVIDUALS THE WE'RE NOT ALL EQUAL.

AND FOR SOME INDIVIDUALS THE DICE ARE LOADED EARLY IN LIFE, AND FOR SOME INDIVIDUALS THE DICE ARE LOADED EARLY IN LIFE, CONSPIRING TO PUSH THEM INTO A DICE ARE LOADED EARLY IN LIFE, CONSPIRING TO PUSH THEM INTO A LIFE OF CRIME.

CONSPIRING TO PUSH THEM INTO A LIFE OF CRIME.

>> HE SEES A REAL BENEFIT TO LIFE OF CRIME.

>> HE SEES A REAL BENEFIT TO SOCIETY WHEN BRAIN IMAGING CAN >> HE SEES A REAL BENEFIT TO SOCIETY WHEN BRAIN IMAGING CAN PREDICT WHICH KIDS ARE MOST SOCIETY WHEN BRAIN IMAGING CAN PREDICT WHICH KIDS ARE MOST LIKELY TO END UP IN TROUBLE AND PREDICT WHICH KIDS ARE MOST LIKELY TO END UP IN TROUBLE AND THEN WORK TO DEVELOP TREATMENT LIKELY TO END UP IN TROUBLE AND THEN WORK TO DEVELOP TREATMENT PROGRAMS TO PREVENT IT.

THEN WORK TO DEVELOP TREATMENT PROGRAMS TO PREVENT IT.

HE HAS TWIN BOYS OF HIS OWN.

PROGRAMS TO PREVENT IT.

HE HAS TWIN BOYS OF HIS OWN.

>> AS A PARENT I WANT TO KNOW.

HE HAS TWIN BOYS OF HIS OWN.

>> AS A PARENT I WANT TO KNOW.

AND I THINK EVERY PARENT SHOULD >> AS A PARENT I WANT TO KNOW.

AND I THINK EVERY PARENT SHOULD KNOW, IS THEIR CHILD AT RISK FOR AND I THINK EVERY PARENT SHOULD KNOW, IS THEIR CHILD AT RISK FOR BECOMING A VIOLENT CRIMINAL KNOW, IS THEIR CHILD AT RISK FOR BECOMING A VIOLENT CRIMINAL OFFENDER?

BECOMING A VIOLENT CRIMINAL OFFENDER?

WE'LL NEVER BE ABLE TO PREDICT OFFENDER?

WE'LL NEVER BE ABLE TO PREDICT WITH PERFECT ACCURACY WHICH WE'LL NEVER BE ABLE TO PREDICT WITH PERFECT ACCURACY WHICH CHILDREN ARE GOING TO BECOME WITH PERFECT ACCURACY WHICH CHILDREN ARE GOING TO BECOME VIOLENT OFFENDERS OF THE FUTURE.

CHILDREN ARE GOING TO BECOME VIOLENT OFFENDERS OF THE FUTURE.

BUT WE HAVE INFORMATION, SOME VIOLENT OFFENDERS OF THE FUTURE.

BUT WE HAVE INFORMATION, SOME INFORMATION NOW, WHICH DOES TELL BUT WE HAVE INFORMATION, SOME INFORMATION NOW, WHICH DOES TELL US THAT SOME KIDS, THE ODDS ARE INFORMATION NOW, WHICH DOES TELL US THAT SOME KIDS, THE ODDS ARE RAISED THAT THEY WILL BECOME A US THAT SOME KIDS, THE ODDS ARE RAISED THAT THEY WILL BECOME A VIOLENT CRIMINAL OFFENDER.

RAISED THAT THEY WILL BECOME A VIOLENT CRIMINAL OFFENDER.

>> TO TRY TO SUGGEST THAT WE VIOLENT CRIMINAL OFFENDER.

>> TO TRY TO SUGGEST THAT WE COULD LEARN SOMETHING ABOUT >> TO TRY TO SUGGEST THAT WE COULD LEARN SOMETHING ABOUT THEIR BRAINS RIGHT NOW THAT COULD LEARN SOMETHING ABOUT THEIR BRAINS RIGHT NOW THAT WOULD LEAD US TO ENGAGE IN ANY THEIR BRAINS RIGHT NOW THAT WOULD LEAD US TO ENGAGE IN ANY KIND OF DIFFERENT BEHAVIOR WOULD LEAD US TO ENGAGE IN ANY KIND OF DIFFERENT BEHAVIOR TOWARD THEM IS NOT SNL KIND OF DIFFERENT BEHAVIOR TOWARD THEM IS NOT SNL PROBLEMATIC AND PREMATURE, IT IS TOWARD THEM IS NOT SNL PROBLEMATIC AND PREMATURE, IT IS DANGEROUS.

PROBLEMATIC AND PREMATURE, IT IS DANGEROUS.

BECAUSE WE HAVE SEEN OVER AND DANGEROUS.

BECAUSE WE HAVE SEEN OVER AND OVER AGAIN THE POWER OF BECAUSE WE HAVE SEEN OVER AND OVER AGAIN THE POWER OF STIGMATIZING CHILDREN.

OVER AGAIN THE POWER OF STIGMATIZING CHILDREN.

>> BUT RAINE AND WOLPE AGREE STIGMATIZING CHILDREN.

>> BUT RAINE AND WOLPE AGREE BRAIN IMAGING COULD BE VERY >> BUT RAINE AND WOLPE AGREE BRAIN IMAGING COULD BE VERY USEFUL IN PREDICTING WHICH BRAIN IMAGING COULD BE VERY USEFUL IN PREDICTING WHICH INMATES COULD COMMIT NEW CRIMES USEFUL IN PREDICTING WHICH INMATES COULD COMMIT NEW CRIMES WHEN THEY'RE RELEASED.

INMATES COULD COMMIT NEW CRIMES WHEN THEY'RE RELEASED.

AND THERE ARE FEW PLACES THAT WHEN THEY'RE RELEASED.

AND THERE ARE FEW PLACES THAT NEED THAT KIND OF RISK AND THERE ARE FEW PLACES THAT NEED THAT KIND OF RISK ASSESSMENT MORE THAN THE LOS NEED THAT KIND OF RISK ASSESSMENT MORE THAN THE LOS ANGELES COUNTY JAIL SYSTEM.

ASSESSMENT MORE THAN THE LOS ANGELES COUNTY JAIL SYSTEM.

TERRY McDONALD IS THE ASSISTANT ANGELES COUNTY JAIL SYSTEM.

TERRY McDONALD IS THE ASSISTANT SHERIFF OF L.A. COUNTY, AND TERRY McDONALD IS THE ASSISTANT SHERIFF OF L.A. COUNTY, AND UNTIL RECENTLY THE HEAD OF RISK SHERIFF OF L.A. COUNTY, AND UNTIL RECENTLY THE HEAD OF RISK ASSESSMENT FOR THE STATE OF UNTIL RECENTLY THE HEAD OF RISK ASSESSMENT FOR THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA.

ASSESSMENT FOR THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA.

>> THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA USES CALIFORNIA.

>> THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA USES THE CALIFORNIA STATIC RISK >> THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA USES THE CALIFORNIA STATIC RISK ASSESSMENT TOOL.

THE CALIFORNIA STATIC RISK ASSESSMENT TOOL.

>> WHAT IS THAT?

ASSESSMENT TOOL.

>> WHAT IS THAT?

>> THAT TOOL IS AN ACTUARIAL >> WHAT IS THAT?

>> THAT TOOL IS AN ACTUARIAL TOOL THAT TAKES INFORMATION FROM >> THAT TOOL IS AN ACTUARIAL TOOL THAT TAKES INFORMATION FROM AN OFFENDER'S RAP SHEET.

TOOL THAT TAKES INFORMATION FROM AN OFFENDER'S RAP SHEET.

THEIR ARREST HISTORY.

AN OFFENDER'S RAP SHEET.

THEIR ARREST HISTORY.

AND IT DOWNLOADS THAT THEIR ARREST HISTORY.

AND IT DOWNLOADS THAT INFORMATION INTO A DATA BASE AND IT DOWNLOADS THAT INFORMATION INTO A DATA BASE SYSTEM.

INFORMATION INTO A DATA BASE SYSTEM.

FROM THAT IT POPS OUT A SCORE SYSTEM.

FROM THAT IT POPS OUT A SCORE FOR THE OFFENDER THAT PREDICTS FROM THAT IT POPS OUT A SCORE FOR THE OFFENDER THAT PREDICTS THEIR RISK OF RECONVICTION, FOR THE OFFENDER THAT PREDICTS THEIR RISK OF RECONVICTION, REARREST.

THEIR RISK OF RECONVICTION, REARREST.

>> CALIFORNIA HAS A MUCH MORE REARREST.

>> CALIFORNIA HAS A MUCH MORE SOPHISTICATED RISK ASSESSMENT >> CALIFORNIA HAS A MUCH MORE SOPHISTICATED RISK ASSESSMENT PROGRAM THAN THE L.A.

JAIL SOPHISTICATED RISK ASSESSMENT PROGRAM THAN THE L.A.

JAIL SYSTEM, HAS GRANTED EARLY PROGRAM THAN THE L.A.

JAIL SYSTEM, HAS GRANTED EARLY RELEASE TO OVER 26,000 INMATES SYSTEM, HAS GRANTED EARLY RELEASE TO OVER 26,000 INMATES SO FAR THIS YEAR BECAUSE OF RELEASE TO OVER 26,000 INMATES SO FAR THIS YEAR BECAUSE OF EXTREME OVERCROWDING.

SO FAR THIS YEAR BECAUSE OF EXTREME OVERCROWDING.

USUALLY, THESE INMATES, WHO EXTREME OVERCROWDING.

USUALLY, THESE INMATES, WHO QUALIFY, FOR INSTANCE, THOSE NOT USUALLY, THESE INMATES, WHO QUALIFY, FOR INSTANCE, THOSE NOT IN FOR VIOLENT CRIMES, GET QUALIFY, FOR INSTANCE, THOSE NOT IN FOR VIOLENT CRIMES, GET RELEASED AFTER SERVING ONLY 40% IN FOR VIOLENT CRIMES, GET RELEASED AFTER SERVING ONLY 40% OF THEIR SENTENCE.

RELEASED AFTER SERVING ONLY 40% OF THEIR SENTENCE.

SOME AFTER SERVING ONLY 10%.

OF THEIR SENTENCE.

SOME AFTER SERVING ONLY 10%.

>> IF THE SYSTEM HAS TO RELEASE SOME AFTER SERVING ONLY 10%.

>> IF THE SYSTEM HAS TO RELEASE EARLY, IT SHOULD BE BASED ON >> IF THE SYSTEM HAS TO RELEASE EARLY, IT SHOULD BE BASED ON RISK.

EARLY, IT SHOULD BE BASED ON RISK.

YOU KNOW, WE DO IT BASED ON RISK.

YOU KNOW, WE DO IT BASED ON PERCENTAGE OF TIME SERVED.

YOU KNOW, WE DO IT BASED ON PERCENTAGE OF TIME SERVED.

AND IT'S BECAUSE WE'RE SO LARGE.

PERCENTAGE OF TIME SERVED.

AND IT'S BECAUSE WE'RE SO LARGE.

WE HAVE 500 INMATES COMING IN AND IT'S BECAUSE WE'RE SO LARGE.

WE HAVE 500 INMATES COMING IN AND OUT OF THE DOOR EVERY DAY.

WE HAVE 500 INMATES COMING IN AND OUT OF THE DOOR EVERY DAY.

AND TO DO RISK ASSESSMENT, A AND OUT OF THE DOOR EVERY DAY.

AND TO DO RISK ASSESSMENT, A MANUAL RISK ASSESSMENT ON 500 AND TO DO RISK ASSESSMENT, A MANUAL RISK ASSESSMENT ON 500 INMATES, TAKES A LOT OF PEOPLE MANUAL RISK ASSESSMENT ON 500 INMATES, TAKES A LOT OF PEOPLE TO DO THAT.

INMATES, TAKES A LOT OF PEOPLE TO DO THAT.

IT WOULD BE VERY EXPENSIVE FOR TO DO THAT.

IT WOULD BE VERY EXPENSIVE FOR EVERY INMATE IN THE L.A. COUNTY IT WOULD BE VERY EXPENSIVE FOR EVERY INMATE IN THE L.A. COUNTY SYSTEM TO HAVE THAT ASSESSMENT EVERY INMATE IN THE L.A. COUNTY SYSTEM TO HAVE THAT ASSESSMENT DONE.

SYSTEM TO HAVE THAT ASSESSMENT DONE.

SO IT'S NOT DONE FOR EVERYBODY.

DONE.

SO IT'S NOT DONE FOR EVERYBODY.

>> THERE IS RESEARCH UNDER WAY, SO IT'S NOT DONE FOR EVERYBODY.

>> THERE IS RESEARCH UNDER WAY, BUT AS YET PRISONS ARE NOT USING >> THERE IS RESEARCH UNDER WAY, BUT AS YET PRISONS ARE NOT USING BRAIN SCANS TO PREDICT BUT AS YET PRISONS ARE NOT USING BRAIN SCANS TO PREDICT RECIDIVISM.

BRAIN SCANS TO PREDICT RECIDIVISM.

>> WE'LL NEVER BE ABLE TO RECIDIVISM.

>> WE'LL NEVER BE ABLE TO PERFECTLY PREDICT FUTURE >> WE'LL NEVER BE ABLE TO PERFECTLY PREDICT FUTURE VIOLENCE.

PERFECTLY PREDICT FUTURE VIOLENCE.

BUT LOOK, LET'S FACE IT, WILL IT VIOLENCE.

BUT LOOK, LET'S FACE IT, WILL IT BECOME PUBLIC POLICY?

BUT LOOK, LET'S FACE IT, WILL IT BECOME PUBLIC POLICY?

IN A WAY, EVERY DAY WE MAKE BECOME PUBLIC POLICY?

IN A WAY, EVERY DAY WE MAKE DECISIONS ON WHICH PRISONERS WE IN A WAY, EVERY DAY WE MAKE DECISIONS ON WHICH PRISONERS WE RELEASE EARLY.

DECISIONS ON WHICH PRISONERS WE RELEASE EARLY.

DO WE LOCK THEM UP OR DO WE GIVE RELEASE EARLY.

DO WE LOCK THEM UP OR DO WE GIVE THEM COMMUNITY SERVICE?

DO WE LOCK THEM UP OR DO WE GIVE THEM COMMUNITY SERVICE?

AND RIGHT NOW BRAIN IMAGING THEM COMMUNITY SERVICE?

AND RIGHT NOW BRAIN IMAGING RESEARCH IS SHOWING THAT BRAIN AND RIGHT NOW BRAIN IMAGING RESEARCH IS SHOWING THAT BRAIN IMAGING DATA IS GIVEN ADDED RESEARCH IS SHOWING THAT BRAIN IMAGING DATA IS GIVEN ADDED VALUE IN THESE PREDICTIONS.

IMAGING DATA IS GIVEN ADDED VALUE IN THESE PREDICTIONS.

>> WE IN L.A. COUNTY AND EVERY VALUE IN THESE PREDICTIONS.

>> WE IN L.A. COUNTY AND EVERY OTHER COUNTY IN CALIFORNIA HAS >> WE IN L.A. COUNTY AND EVERY OTHER COUNTY IN CALIFORNIA HAS TO GET BETTER AT HOW WE DO RISK OTHER COUNTY IN CALIFORNIA HAS TO GET BETTER AT HOW WE DO RISK ASSESSMENT.

TO GET BETTER AT HOW WE DO RISK ASSESSMENT.

IT WILL BE FASCINATING TO LEARN ASSESSMENT.

IT WILL BE FASCINATING TO LEARN AS TIME GOES ON HOW IT WILL BE FASCINATING TO LEARN AS TIME GOES ON HOW PHYSIOLOGICAL TESTING COULD HELP AS TIME GOES ON HOW PHYSIOLOGICAL TESTING COULD HELP AS ONE COMPONENT OF AN OVERALL PHYSIOLOGICAL TESTING COULD HELP AS ONE COMPONENT OF AN OVERALL REVIEW OF AN OFFENDER.

AS ONE COMPONENT OF AN OVERALL REVIEW OF AN OFFENDER.

YOU DON'T EVER WANT TO RELY ON REVIEW OF AN OFFENDER.

YOU DON'T EVER WANT TO RELY ON ANY ONE SYSTEM.

YOU DON'T EVER WANT TO RELY ON ANY ONE SYSTEM.

>> WE HAVE TO BE VERY, VERY ANY ONE SYSTEM.

>> WE HAVE TO BE VERY, VERY CAREFUL HOW WE USE THIS >> WE HAVE TO BE VERY, VERY CAREFUL HOW WE USE THIS INFORMATION.

CAREFUL HOW WE USE THIS INFORMATION.

WHICH AGAIN, IS NOT TO SAY THAT INFORMATION.

WHICH AGAIN, IS NOT TO SAY THAT WE MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO USE THIS WHICH AGAIN, IS NOT TO SAY THAT WE MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO USE THIS INFORMATION WELL.

WE MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO USE THIS INFORMATION WELL.

BUT TO USE IT POORLY IS SO INFORMATION WELL.

BUT TO USE IT POORLY IS SO DANGEROUS.

BUT TO USE IT POORLY IS SO DANGEROUS.

>> ADRIAN RAINE IS A PERFECT DANGEROUS.

>> ADRIAN RAINE IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF HOW FAR NEUROSCIENCE >> ADRIAN RAINE IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF HOW FAR NEUROSCIENCE HAS COME AND HOW FAR IT HAS YET EXAMPLE OF HOW FAR NEUROSCIENCE HAS COME AND HOW FAR IT HAS YET TO GO BEFORE IT IS A RELIABLE HAS COME AND HOW FAR IT HAS YET TO GO BEFORE IT IS A RELIABLE PREDICTOR.

TO GO BEFORE IT IS A RELIABLE PREDICTOR.

HE SAYS HE HAS SOME OF THE SAME PREDICTOR.

HE SAYS HE HAS SOME OF THE SAME BIO MARKERS OF A SERIAL KILLER HE SAYS HE HAS SOME OF THE SAME BIO MARKERS OF A SERIAL KILLER AND YET HE GREW UP TO BE A BIO MARKERS OF A SERIAL KILLER AND YET HE GREW UP TO BE A NEUROCRIMINOLOGIST.

AND YET HE GREW UP TO BE A NEUROCRIMINOLOGIST.

FOR "RELIGION AND ETHICS NEWS NEUROCRIMINOLOGIST.

FOR "RELIGION AND ETHICS NEWS WEEKLY," I'M LUCKY SEVERSON IN FOR "RELIGION AND ETHICS NEWS WEEKLY," I'M LUCKY SEVERSON IN PHILADELPHIA.

WEEKLY," I'M LUCKY SEVERSON IN PHILADELPHIA.

>>> IN OTHER NEWS, AS EUROPEAN PHILADELPHIA.

>>> IN OTHER NEWS, AS EUROPEAN ALLIES CONTINUE TO LODGE >>> IN OTHER NEWS, AS EUROPEAN ALLIES CONTINUE TO LODGE PROTESTS OVER ALLEGED NATIONAL ALLIES CONTINUE TO LODGE PROTESTS OVER ALLEGED NATIONAL SECURITY AGENCY EAVESDROPPING ON PROTESTS OVER ALLEGED NATIONAL SECURITY AGENCY EAVESDROPPING ON INTERNATIONAL LEADERS, AN SECURITY AGENCY EAVESDROPPING ON INTERNATIONAL LEADERS, AN ITALIAN NEWS MAGAZINE REPORTED INTERNATIONAL LEADERS, AN ITALIAN NEWS MAGAZINE REPORTED THAT THE U.S. HAD ALSO SPIED ON ITALIAN NEWS MAGAZINE REPORTED THAT THE U.S. HAD ALSO SPIED ON COMMUNICATIONS FROM THE VATICAN.

THAT THE U.S. HAD ALSO SPIED ON COMMUNICATIONS FROM THE VATICAN.

WITHOUT CITING SOURCES, THE COMMUNICATIONS FROM THE VATICAN.

WITHOUT CITING SOURCES, THE PUBLICATION SAID U.S.

SPYING ON WITHOUT CITING SOURCES, THE PUBLICATION SAID U.S.

SPYING ON THE VATICAN INCLUDED THE PUBLICATION SAID U.S.

SPYING ON THE VATICAN INCLUDED THE GUESTHOUSE WHERE CARDINALS THE VATICAN INCLUDED THE GUESTHOUSE WHERE CARDINALS STAYED BEFORE THE CONCLAVE THAT GUESTHOUSE WHERE CARDINALS STAYED BEFORE THE CONCLAVE THAT ELECTED POPE FRANCIS.

STAYED BEFORE THE CONCLAVE THAT ELECTED POPE FRANCIS.

THE NSA DENIED THAT.

ELECTED POPE FRANCIS.

THE NSA DENIED THAT.

THE VATICAN SPOKESMAN SAID, "IN THE NSA DENIED THAT.

THE VATICAN SPOKESMAN SAID, "IN ANY CASE, WE DON'T HAVE ANY THE VATICAN SPOKESMAN SAID, "IN ANY CASE, WE DON'T HAVE ANY CONCERNS."

ANY CASE, WE DON'T HAVE ANY CONCERNS."

>>> MEANWHILE, THIS WEEK POPE CONCERNS."

>>> MEANWHILE, THIS WEEK POPE FRANCIS MET WITH MYANMAR >>> MEANWHILE, THIS WEEK POPE FRANCIS MET WITH MYANMAR OPPOSITION LEADER AND NOBEL FRANCIS MET WITH MYANMAR OPPOSITION LEADER AND NOBEL PEACE PRIZE WINNER AUNG SAN SUU OPPOSITION LEADER AND NOBEL PEACE PRIZE WINNER AUNG SAN SUU KYI, WHO SPENT ALMOST TWO PEACE PRIZE WINNER AUNG SAN SUU KYI, WHO SPENT ALMOST TWO DECADES UNDER HOUSE ARREST.

KYI, WHO SPENT ALMOST TWO DECADES UNDER HOUSE ARREST.

THE TWO REAFFIRMED THEIR MUTUAL DECADES UNDER HOUSE ARREST.

THE TWO REAFFIRMED THEIR MUTUAL SUPPORT FOR VALUES SUCH AS THE TWO REAFFIRMED THEIR MUTUAL SUPPORT FOR VALUES SUCH AS NON-VIOLENCE, DEMOCRACY, AND SUPPORT FOR VALUES SUCH AS NON-VIOLENCE, DEMOCRACY, AND HUMAN DIGNITY.

NON-VIOLENCE, DEMOCRACY, AND HUMAN DIGNITY.

WE WANT TO ASSESS NOW THE HUMAN DIGNITY.

WE WANT TO ASSESS NOW THE CATHOLIC CHURCH UNDER POPE WE WANT TO ASSESS NOW THE CATHOLIC CHURCH UNDER POPE FRANCIS WITH KIM LAWTON, CATHOLIC CHURCH UNDER POPE FRANCIS WITH KIM LAWTON, MANAGING EDITOR OF THIS PROGRAM, FRANCIS WITH KIM LAWTON, MANAGING EDITOR OF THIS PROGRAM, AND KEVIN EXTRUM, EDITOR IN MANAGING EDITOR OF THIS PROGRAM, AND KEVIN EXTRUM, EDITOR IN CHIEF OF "RELIGION NEWS AND KEVIN EXTRUM, EDITOR IN CHIEF OF "RELIGION NEWS SERVICE."

CHIEF OF "RELIGION NEWS SERVICE."

WELCOME TO YOU BOTH.

SERVICE."

WELCOME TO YOU BOTH.

KEVIN, WE LEARNED THIS WEEK THAT WELCOME TO YOU BOTH.

KEVIN, WE LEARNED THIS WEEK THAT THERE ARE GOING TO BE SOME NEW KEVIN, WE LEARNED THIS WEEK THAT THERE ARE GOING TO BE SOME NEW CARDINALS ANNOUNCED SOON.

THERE ARE GOING TO BE SOME NEW CARDINALS ANNOUNCED SOON.

>> YES.

CARDINALS ANNOUNCED SOON.

>> YES.

THE POPE IS GOING TO NAME A NEW >> YES.

THE POPE IS GOING TO NAME A NEW CLASS OF CARDINALS IN FEBRUARY THE POPE IS GOING TO NAME A NEW CLASS OF CARDINALS IN FEBRUARY AND IT'S NOT CLEAR YET HOW MANY CLASS OF CARDINALS IN FEBRUARY AND IT'S NOT CLEAR YET HOW MANY HE'S GOING TO NAME BUT PROBABLY AND IT'S NOT CLEAR YET HOW MANY HE'S GOING TO NAME BUT PROBABLY I WOULD GUESS ABOUT TWO DOZEN.

HE'S GOING TO NAME BUT PROBABLY I WOULD GUESS ABOUT TWO DOZEN.

THE MOST IMPORTANT THING I WOULD GUESS ABOUT TWO DOZEN.

THE MOST IMPORTANT THING OBVIOUSLY IS THAT THESE ARE THE THE MOST IMPORTANT THING OBVIOUSLY IS THAT THESE ARE THE MEN WHO WILL EVENTUALLY ELECT OBVIOUSLY IS THAT THESE ARE THE MEN WHO WILL EVENTUALLY ELECT HIS SUCCESSOR.

MEN WHO WILL EVENTUALLY ELECT HIS SUCCESSOR.

BUT IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO HIS SUCCESSOR.

BUT IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE WHO GETS A RED HAT AND BUT IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE WHO GETS A RED HAT AND PERHAPS WHO DOESN'T.

SEE WHO GETS A RED HAT AND PERHAPS WHO DOESN'T.

DO THESE MEN SHARE THE POPE'S PERHAPS WHO DOESN'T.

DO THESE MEN SHARE THE POPE'S SEMI-PROGRESSIVE VIEW OF THE DO THESE MEN SHARE THE POPE'S SEMI-PROGRESSIVE VIEW OF THE WORLD OR ARE THEY CONSERVATIVES SEMI-PROGRESSIVE VIEW OF THE WORLD OR ARE THEY CONSERVATIVES WHO ARE ALREADY IN PLACE UNDER WORLD OR ARE THEY CONSERVATIVES WHO ARE ALREADY IN PLACE UNDER JOHN PAUL AND BENEDICT XVI?

WHO ARE ALREADY IN PLACE UNDER JOHN PAUL AND BENEDICT XVI?

HERE IN THE UNITED STATES WE'RE JOHN PAUL AND BENEDICT XVI?

HERE IN THE UNITED STATES WE'RE LOOKING AT MAYBE A HANDFUL OF HERE IN THE UNITED STATES WE'RE LOOKING AT MAYBE A HANDFUL OF ARCHBISHOPS WHO COULD BE LOOKING AT MAYBE A HANDFUL OF ARCHBISHOPS WHO COULD BE PROMOTED.

ARCHBISHOPS WHO COULD BE PROMOTED.

AND WHAT'S INTERESTING IS IN AT PROMOTED.

AND WHAT'S INTERESTING IS IN AT LEAST TWO CASES, IN PHILADELPHIA AND WHAT'S INTERESTING IS IN AT LEAST TWO CASES, IN PHILADELPHIA AND IN BALTIMORE, WHO ARE SORT LEAST TWO CASES, IN PHILADELPHIA AND IN BALTIMORE, WHO ARE SORT OF DUE FOR RED HATS, THE TWO AND IN BALTIMORE, WHO ARE SORT OF DUE FOR RED HATS, THE TWO ARCHBISHOPS THERE ARE CULTURE OF DUE FOR RED HATS, THE TWO ARCHBISHOPS THERE ARE CULTURE WARRIORS ON THE CONSERVATIVE ARCHBISHOPS THERE ARE CULTURE WARRIORS ON THE CONSERVATIVE SIDE AND EMPHASIZING THE ISSUES WARRIORS ON THE CONSERVATIVE SIDE AND EMPHASIZING THE ISSUES THAT POPE FRANCIS HAS SAID MAYBE SIDE AND EMPHASIZING THE ISSUES THAT POPE FRANCIS HAS SAID MAYBE WE NEED TO PAY LESS ATTENTION THAT POPE FRANCIS HAS SAID MAYBE WE NEED TO PAY LESS ATTENTION TO.

WE NEED TO PAY LESS ATTENTION TO.

SO WHETHER OR NOT THEY GET RED TO.

SO WHETHER OR NOT THEY GET RED HATS WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE.

SO WHETHER OR NOT THEY GET RED HATS WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE.

>> AND AT THAT MEETING IN HATS WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE.

>> AND AT THAT MEETING IN FEBRUARY THE POPE HAS SAID HE >> AND AT THAT MEETING IN FEBRUARY THE POPE HAS SAID HE WANTS THE CARDINALS TO TALK FEBRUARY THE POPE HAS SAID HE WANTS THE CARDINALS TO TALK ABOUT THE CHURCH, AND THERE'S WANTS THE CARDINALS TO TALK ABOUT THE CHURCH, AND THERE'S ANOTHER BIG MEETING SCHEDULED ABOUT THE CHURCH, AND THERE'S ANOTHER BIG MEETING SCHEDULED LATER ON NEXT YEAR WHERE THEY'RE ANOTHER BIG MEETING SCHEDULED LATER ON NEXT YEAR WHERE THEY'RE GOING TO ADDRESS SOME OF THESE LATER ON NEXT YEAR WHERE THEY'RE GOING TO ADDRESS SOME OF THESE BIG CONTROVERSIAL ISSUES LIKE GOING TO ADDRESS SOME OF THESE BIG CONTROVERSIAL ISSUES LIKE AUFSHL CONTRACEPTION AND GAY BIG CONTROVERSIAL ISSUES LIKE AUFSHL CONTRACEPTION AND GAY MARRIAGE AND SOME OF THOSE KINDS AUFSHL CONTRACEPTION AND GAY MARRIAGE AND SOME OF THOSE KINDS OF ISSUES.

MARRIAGE AND SOME OF THOSE KINDS OF ISSUES.

AND THIS WEEK WE ALSO HEARD THAT OF ISSUES.

AND THIS WEEK WE ALSO HEARD THAT THE VATICAN HAS SOLICITED INPUT AND THIS WEEK WE ALSO HEARD THAT THE VATICAN HAS SOLICITED INPUT FROM DIFFERENT JURISDICTIONS THE VATICAN HAS SOLICITED INPUT FROM DIFFERENT JURISDICTIONS AROUND THE WORLD ASKING THESE FROM DIFFERENT JURISDICTIONS AROUND THE WORLD ASKING THESE JURISDICTIONS TO ASK PEOPLE IN AROUND THE WORLD ASKING THESE JURISDICTIONS TO ASK PEOPLE IN THE PEWS WHAT THEY THINK, WHAT JURISDICTIONS TO ASK PEOPLE IN THE PEWS WHAT THEY THINK, WHAT THEY KNOW ABOUT SOME OF THOSE THE PEWS WHAT THEY THINK, WHAT THEY KNOW ABOUT SOME OF THOSE CONTROVERSIAL ISSUES.

THEY KNOW ABOUT SOME OF THOSE CONTROVERSIAL ISSUES.

HERE IN THE U.S.

THEY DIDN'T ASK CONTROVERSIAL ISSUES.

HERE IN THE U.S.

THEY DIDN'T ASK THE U.S. BISHOPS TO DO IT.

HERE IN THE U.S.

THEY DIDN'T ASK THE U.S. BISHOPS TO DO IT.

PRETTY OBVIOUS WHAT A LOT OF THE U.S. BISHOPS TO DO IT.

PRETTY OBVIOUS WHAT A LOT OF U.S. CATHOLICS THINK.

PRETTY OBVIOUS WHAT A LOT OF U.S. CATHOLICS THINK.

BUT IT'S INTERESTING THAT THE U.S. CATHOLICS THINK.

BUT IT'S INTERESTING THAT THE VATICAN IS SEEKING OPINIONS OR BUT IT'S INTERESTING THAT THE VATICAN IS SEEKING OPINIONS OR WANTING TO KNOW WHAT PEOPLE VATICAN IS SEEKING OPINIONS OR WANTING TO KNOW WHAT PEOPLE THINK.

WANTING TO KNOW WHAT PEOPLE THINK.

DOESN'T MEAN NECESSARILY THEY'RE THINK.

DOESN'T MEAN NECESSARILY THEY'RE TAKING A MAJORITY VOTE TO SEE DOESN'T MEAN NECESSARILY THEY'RE TAKING A MAJORITY VOTE TO SEE WHAT THE CHURCH TEACHINGS SHOULD TAKING A MAJORITY VOTE TO SEE WHAT THE CHURCH TEACHINGS SHOULD BE.

WHAT THE CHURCH TEACHINGS SHOULD BE.

BUT IT'S INTERESTING.

BE.

BUT IT'S INTERESTING.

>> WHEN FRANCIS WAS FIRST POPE, BUT IT'S INTERESTING.

>> WHEN FRANCIS WAS FIRST POPE, A LOT OF LIBERAL CATHOLICS WERE >> WHEN FRANCIS WAS FIRST POPE, A LOT OF LIBERAL CATHOLICS WERE REALLY ECSTATIC.

A LOT OF LIBERAL CATHOLICS WERE REALLY ECSTATIC.

THEY WERE SO HAPPY BECAUSE THEY REALLY ECSTATIC.

THEY WERE SO HAPPY BECAUSE THEY SAW HIM AS THE ANSWER TO ALL THEY WERE SO HAPPY BECAUSE THEY SAW HIM AS THE ANSWER TO ALL THEIR HOPES AND DREAMS.

SAW HIM AS THE ANSWER TO ALL THEIR HOPES AND DREAMS.

IS THAT STILL GOING ON?

THEIR HOPES AND DREAMS.

IS THAT STILL GOING ON?

>> I THINK IT'S A MIXED BAG.

IS THAT STILL GOING ON?

>> I THINK IT'S A MIXED BAG.

THERE'S A SENSE OF >> I THINK IT'S A MIXED BAG.

THERE'S A SENSE OF DISAPPOINTMENT I THINK IN SOME THERE'S A SENSE OF DISAPPOINTMENT I THINK IN SOME QUARTERS, ESPECIALLY ON THE DISAPPOINTMENT I THINK IN SOME QUARTERS, ESPECIALLY ON THE RIGHT, WHO THOUGHT MAYBE THIS QUARTERS, ESPECIALLY ON THE RIGHT, WHO THOUGHT MAYBE THIS POPE WAS A LITTLE BIT MORE RIGHT, WHO THOUGHT MAYBE THIS POPE WAS A LITTLE BIT MORE CONSERVATIVE THAN HE TURNED OUT POPE WAS A LITTLE BIT MORE CONSERVATIVE THAN HE TURNED OUT TO BE.

CONSERVATIVE THAN HE TURNED OUT TO BE.

BUT ON THE LEFT SIDE I THINK TO BE.

BUT ON THE LEFT SIDE I THINK THERE'S A SENSE THAT THEY'D LIKE BUT ON THE LEFT SIDE I THINK THERE'S A SENSE THAT THEY'D LIKE THINGS TO HAPPEN FASTER.

THERE'S A SENSE THAT THEY'D LIKE THINGS TO HAPPEN FASTER.

AND YOU KNOW, ALL THESE CHANGES THINGS TO HAPPEN FASTER.

AND YOU KNOW, ALL THESE CHANGES THAT EVERYONE'S TALKING ABOUT, AND YOU KNOW, ALL THESE CHANGES THAT EVERYONE'S TALKING ABOUT, LET'S DO IT TOMORROW, AND WHAT THAT EVERYONE'S TALKING ABOUT, LET'S DO IT TOMORROW, AND WHAT THEY'RE DISCOVERING IS THIS IS LET'S DO IT TOMORROW, AND WHAT THEY'RE DISCOVERING IS THIS IS AN INSTITUTION THAT TAKES ITS THEY'RE DISCOVERING IS THIS IS AN INSTITUTION THAT TAKES ITS TIME WITH MAJOR DECISIONS AND AN INSTITUTION THAT TAKES ITS TIME WITH MAJOR DECISIONS AND NONE OF THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN TIME WITH MAJOR DECISIONS AND NONE OF THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN SOON.

NONE OF THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN SOON.

>> AND SOME OF IT I THINK IS THE SOON.

>> AND SOME OF IT I THINK IS THE EXPECTATIONS OR THE >> AND SOME OF IT I THINK IS THE EXPECTATIONS OR THE INTERPRETATIONS, JUST BECAUSE EXPECTATIONS OR THE INTERPRETATIONS, JUST BECAUSE FRANCIS SAYS WE NEED TO HAVE INTERPRETATIONS, JUST BECAUSE FRANCIS SAYS WE NEED TO HAVE MORE MERCY TOWARD DIVORCED FRANCIS SAYS WE NEED TO HAVE MORE MERCY TOWARD DIVORCED CATHOLICS WHO'VE REMARRIED, DOES MORE MERCY TOWARD DIVORCED CATHOLICS WHO'VE REMARRIED, DOES THAT MEAN THEY'RE GOING TO CATHOLICS WHO'VE REMARRIED, DOES THAT MEAN THEY'RE GOING TO CHANGE THE POLICY?

THAT MEAN THEY'RE GOING TO CHANGE THE POLICY?

THAT THOSE PEOPLE CAN NOW TAKE CHANGE THE POLICY?

THAT THOSE PEOPLE CAN NOW TAKE COMMUNION?

THAT THOSE PEOPLE CAN NOW TAKE COMMUNION?

JUST BECAUSE HE SAYS WHO AM I TO COMMUNION?

JUST BECAUSE HE SAYS WHO AM I TO JUDGE IF A GAY PERSON, YOU KNOW, JUST BECAUSE HE SAYS WHO AM I TO JUDGE IF A GAY PERSON, YOU KNOW, A PRIEST, OR WHOMEVER IS GAY AND JUDGE IF A GAY PERSON, YOU KNOW, A PRIEST, OR WHOMEVER IS GAY AND CATHOLIC, BUT DOES THAT MEAN THE A PRIEST, OR WHOMEVER IS GAY AND CATHOLIC, BUT DOES THAT MEAN THE CHURCH IS GOING TO CHANGE ITS CATHOLIC, BUT DOES THAT MEAN THE CHURCH IS GOING TO CHANGE ITS STAND ON GAY MARRIAGE?

CHURCH IS GOING TO CHANGE ITS STAND ON GAY MARRIAGE?

SO I THINK IT'S A DIFFERENCE IN STAND ON GAY MARRIAGE?

SO I THINK IT'S A DIFFERENCE IN TONE WHICH IS CERTAINLY SO I THINK IT'S A DIFFERENCE IN TONE WHICH IS CERTAINLY SIGNIFICANT.

TONE WHICH IS CERTAINLY SIGNIFICANT.

IS IT A DIFFERENCE IN SUBSTANCE SIGNIFICANT.

IS IT A DIFFERENCE IN SUBSTANCE IN TERMS OF ACTUAL CHANGES OF IS IT A DIFFERENCE IN SUBSTANCE IN TERMS OF ACTUAL CHANGES OF CHURCH TEACHING?

IN TERMS OF ACTUAL CHANGES OF CHURCH TEACHING?

FRANCIS IS NOT PROMISING TO MAKE CHURCH TEACHING?

FRANCIS IS NOT PROMISING TO MAKE SWEEPING CHANGES.

FRANCIS IS NOT PROMISING TO MAKE SWEEPING CHANGES.

HE SAYS, "I'M A SON OF THE SWEEPING CHANGES.

HE SAYS, "I'M A SON OF THE CHURCH."

HE SAYS, "I'M A SON OF THE CHURCH."

YOU KNOW, "I BELIEVE WHAT THE CHURCH."

YOU KNOW, "I BELIEVE WHAT THE CHURCH TEACHES."

YOU KNOW, "I BELIEVE WHAT THE CHURCH TEACHES."

SOME OF IT'S A BIT OF MIXED CHURCH TEACHES."

SOME OF IT'S A BIT OF MIXED EXPECTATIONS AS WELL.

SOME OF IT'S A BIT OF MIXED EXPECTATIONS AS WELL.

>> KIM LAWTON OF RELIGIOUS & EXPECTATIONS AS WELL.

>> KIM LAWTON OF RELIGIOUS & ETHICS NEWSWEEKLY.

>> KIM LAWTON OF RELIGIOUS & ETHICS NEWSWEEKLY.

EVAN ECKSTROM OF RELIGION NEWS ETHICS NEWSWEEKLY.

EVAN ECKSTROM OF RELIGION NEWS SERVICE.

EVAN ECKSTROM OF RELIGION NEWS SERVICE.

MANY THANKS.

SERVICE.

MANY THANKS.

>>> BOOKS ABOUT JESUS ARE BIG MANY THANKS.

>>> BOOKS ABOUT JESUS ARE BIG BUSINESS.

>>> BOOKS ABOUT JESUS ARE BIG BUSINESS.

LAST WEEK THERE WERE THREE OF BUSINESS.

LAST WEEK THERE WERE THREE OF THEM AMONG THE TOP 15 "NEW YORK LAST WEEK THERE WERE THREE OF THEM AMONG THE TOP 15 "NEW YORK TIMES" BEST-SELLERS.

THEM AMONG THE TOP 15 "NEW YORK TIMES" BEST-SELLERS.

ONE WAS "ZEALOT: THE LIFE AND TIMES" BEST-SELLERS.

ONE WAS "ZEALOT: THE LIFE AND TIMES OF JESUS OF NAZARETH" BY ONE WAS "ZEALOT: THE LIFE AND TIMES OF JESUS OF NAZARETH" BY REZA ASLAN.

TIMES OF JESUS OF NAZARETH" BY REZA ASLAN.

AND IT'S BEEN ON THE BEST-SELLER REZA ASLAN.

AND IT'S BEEN ON THE BEST-SELLER LIST FOR 14 CONSECUTIVE WEEKS.

AND IT'S BEEN ON THE BEST-SELLER LIST FOR 14 CONSECUTIVE WEEKS.

IN "ZEALOT" ASLAN MAKES SOME LIST FOR 14 CONSECUTIVE WEEKS.

IN "ZEALOT" ASLAN MAKES SOME HIGHLY CONTROVERSIAL ASSERTIONS.

IN "ZEALOT" ASLAN MAKES SOME HIGHLY CONTROVERSIAL ASSERTIONS.

FOR INSTANCE, HE PORTRAYS JESUS HIGHLY CONTROVERSIAL ASSERTIONS.

FOR INSTANCE, HE PORTRAYS JESUS AS A REVOLUTIONARY WHOSE MISSION FOR INSTANCE, HE PORTRAYS JESUS AS A REVOLUTIONARY WHOSE MISSION WAS TO OVERTHROW ROMAN RULE AND AS A REVOLUTIONARY WHOSE MISSION WAS TO OVERTHROW ROMAN RULE AND WHO MAY HAVE CONDONED VIOLENCE WAS TO OVERTHROW ROMAN RULE AND WHO MAY HAVE CONDONED VIOLENCE TO DO IT.

WHO MAY HAVE CONDONED VIOLENCE TO DO IT.

KIM LAWTON TALKED WITH ASLAN TO DO IT.

KIM LAWTON TALKED WITH ASLAN ABOUT HIS BOOK AND THE KIM LAWTON TALKED WITH ASLAN ABOUT HIS BOOK AND THE CONTROVERSY SURROUNDING IT.

ABOUT HIS BOOK AND THE CONTROVERSY SURROUNDING IT.

>> HI.

CONTROVERSY SURROUNDING IT.

>> HI.

HOW ARE YOU?

>> HI.

HOW ARE YOU?

>> GOOD.

HOW ARE YOU?

>> GOOD.

HOW ARE YOU?

>> GOOD.

HOW ARE YOU?

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

HOW ARE YOU?

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> THANK YOU FOR COMING.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> THANK YOU FOR COMING.

>> BEST-SELLING AUTHOR REZA >> THANK YOU FOR COMING.

>> BEST-SELLING AUTHOR REZA ASLAN CLAIMS HE DIDN'T SET OUT >> BEST-SELLING AUTHOR REZA ASLAN CLAIMS HE DIDN'T SET OUT TO CHALLENGE ANYONE'S FAITH IN ASLAN CLAIMS HE DIDN'T SET OUT TO CHALLENGE ANYONE'S FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST.

TO CHALLENGE ANYONE'S FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST.

HE SAYS THE INTENTION OF HIS JESUS CHRIST.

HE SAYS THE INTENTION OF HIS PROVOCATIVE BOOK, "ZEALOT: THE HE SAYS THE INTENTION OF HIS PROVOCATIVE BOOK, "ZEALOT: THE LIFE AND TIMES OF JESUS OF PROVOCATIVE BOOK, "ZEALOT: THE LIFE AND TIMES OF JESUS OF NAZARETH," WAS TO EXPLORE WHO LIFE AND TIMES OF JESUS OF NAZARETH," WAS TO EXPLORE WHO JESUS WAS APART FROM WHAT NAZARETH," WAS TO EXPLORE WHO JESUS WAS APART FROM WHAT THEOLOGY AND TRADITION HAVE JESUS WAS APART FROM WHAT THEOLOGY AND TRADITION HAVE SAID.

THEOLOGY AND TRADITION HAVE SAID.

>> THIS ATTEMPT TO DIG THROUGH SAID.

>> THIS ATTEMPT TO DIG THROUGH AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE THE LAYERS >> THIS ATTEMPT TO DIG THROUGH AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE THE LAYERS OF LEGEND AND MYTHOLOGY, OF AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE THE LAYERS OF LEGEND AND MYTHOLOGY, OF INTERPRETATION AND FAITH THAT OF LEGEND AND MYTHOLOGY, OF INTERPRETATION AND FAITH THAT HAVE ARISEN AROUND JESUS THE INTERPRETATION AND FAITH THAT HAVE ARISEN AROUND JESUS THE CHRIST AND TO GET TO JESUS THE HAVE ARISEN AROUND JESUS THE CHRIST AND TO GET TO JESUS THE MAN IS I THINK IMPORTANT NOT CHRIST AND TO GET TO JESUS THE MAN IS I THINK IMPORTANT NOT JUST FOR THE HISTORIAN BUT I MAN IS I THINK IMPORTANT NOT JUST FOR THE HISTORIAN BUT I THINK ALSO FOR THE PERSON OF JUST FOR THE HISTORIAN BUT I THINK ALSO FOR THE PERSON OF FAITH.

THINK ALSO FOR THE PERSON OF FAITH.

>> MANY BELIEVERS HAVE BEEN FAITH.

>> MANY BELIEVERS HAVE BEEN OFFENDED AT ASLAN'S PORTRAIT OF >> MANY BELIEVERS HAVE BEEN OFFENDED AT ASLAN'S PORTRAIT OF JESUS AS A ZEALOUS REVOLUTIONARY OFFENDED AT ASLAN'S PORTRAIT OF JESUS AS A ZEALOUS REVOLUTIONARY WHO ULTIMATELY FAILED IN HIS JESUS AS A ZEALOUS REVOLUTIONARY WHO ULTIMATELY FAILED IN HIS MISSION TO LIBERATE THE JEWS WHO ULTIMATELY FAILED IN HIS MISSION TO LIBERATE THE JEWS FROM ROMAN OCCUPATION.

MISSION TO LIBERATE THE JEWS FROM ROMAN OCCUPATION.

ASLAN SAYS THE HISTORICAL FROM ROMAN OCCUPATION.

ASLAN SAYS THE HISTORICAL CONTEXT CAN'T BE IGNORED.

ASLAN SAYS THE HISTORICAL CONTEXT CAN'T BE IGNORED.

>> THE FOUNDATION OF CONTEXT CAN'T BE IGNORED.

>> THE FOUNDATION OF CHRISTIANITY IS THAT JESUS IS >> THE FOUNDATION OF CHRISTIANITY IS THAT JESUS IS BOTH FULLY GOD AND FULLY MAN.

CHRISTIANITY IS THAT JESUS IS BOTH FULLY GOD AND FULLY MAN.

WELL, IF THAT IS TRUE, THEN TO BOTH FULLY GOD AND FULLY MAN.

WELL, IF THAT IS TRUE, THEN TO REALLY UNDERSTAND WHO THE FULLY WELL, IF THAT IS TRUE, THEN TO REALLY UNDERSTAND WHO THE FULLY MAN PART WAS YOU HAVE TO REALLY UNDERSTAND WHO THE FULLY MAN PART WAS YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THE WORLD IN WHICH HE MAN PART WAS YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THE WORLD IN WHICH HE LIVED BECAUSE THAT WORLD UNDERSTAND THE WORLD IN WHICH HE LIVED BECAUSE THAT WORLD AFFECTED WHO HE WAS.

LIVED BECAUSE THAT WORLD AFFECTED WHO HE WAS.

>> ASLAN HAS A Ph.D.

IN THE AFFECTED WHO HE WAS.

>> ASLAN HAS A Ph.D.

IN THE SOCIOLOGY OF RELIGION AND >> ASLAN HAS A Ph.D.

IN THE SOCIOLOGY OF RELIGION AND TEACHES CREATIVE WRITING AT THE SOCIOLOGY OF RELIGION AND TEACHES CREATIVE WRITING AT THE UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA TEACHES CREATIVE WRITING AT THE UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA RIVERSIDE.

UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA RIVERSIDE.

HE'S A PRACTICING MUSLIM WHO RIVERSIDE.

HE'S A PRACTICING MUSLIM WHO ALSO WROTE "NO GOD BUT GOD," A HE'S A PRACTICING MUSLIM WHO ALSO WROTE "NO GOD BUT GOD," A BEST-SELLING BOOK ABOUT ISLAM.

ALSO WROTE "NO GOD BUT GOD," A BEST-SELLING BOOK ABOUT ISLAM.

IN "ZEALOT" ASLAN DESCRIBES BEST-SELLING BOOK ABOUT ISLAM.

IN "ZEALOT" ASLAN DESCRIBES BEING A 15-YEAR-OLD IMMIGRANT IN "ZEALOT" ASLAN DESCRIBES BEING A 15-YEAR-OLD IMMIGRANT FROM IRAN AND ATTENDING AN BEING A 15-YEAR-OLD IMMIGRANT FROM IRAN AND ATTENDING AN EVANGELICAL YOUTH CAMP IN FROM IRAN AND ATTENDING AN EVANGELICAL YOUTH CAMP IN CALIFORNIA WHERE JESUS WAS EVANGELICAL YOUTH CAMP IN CALIFORNIA WHERE JESUS WAS HAILED AS THE SAVIOR.

CALIFORNIA WHERE JESUS WAS HAILED AS THE SAVIOR.

>> I IMMEDIATELY GAVE MY LIFE TO HAILED AS THE SAVIOR.

>> I IMMEDIATELY GAVE MY LIFE TO JESUS, HAD A DEEP ENCOUNTER WITH >> I IMMEDIATELY GAVE MY LIFE TO JESUS, HAD A DEEP ENCOUNTER WITH CHRIST.

JESUS, HAD A DEEP ENCOUNTER WITH CHRIST.

SPENT THE NEXT FOUR OR FIVE CHRIST.

SPENT THE NEXT FOUR OR FIVE YEARS PREACHING THE GOSPEL AS I SPENT THE NEXT FOUR OR FIVE YEARS PREACHING THE GOSPEL AS I HAD LEARNED IT FROM THIS VERY YEARS PREACHING THE GOSPEL AS I HAD LEARNED IT FROM THIS VERY CONSERVATIVE EVANGELICAL HAD LEARNED IT FROM THIS VERY CONSERVATIVE EVANGELICAL COMMUNITY, PREACHING IT TO CONSERVATIVE EVANGELICAL COMMUNITY, PREACHING IT TO EVERYONE, WHETHER THEY WANTED TO COMMUNITY, PREACHING IT TO EVERYONE, WHETHER THEY WANTED TO HEAR IT OR NOT, FRANKLY.

EVERYONE, WHETHER THEY WANTED TO HEAR IT OR NOT, FRANKLY.

>> BUT THEN, ASLAN SAYS, HEAR IT OR NOT, FRANKLY.

>> BUT THEN, ASLAN SAYS, STUDYING RELIGION AT UNIVERSITY >> BUT THEN, ASLAN SAYS, STUDYING RELIGION AT UNIVERSITY DISILLUSIONED HIM AND HE LEFT STUDYING RELIGION AT UNIVERSITY DISILLUSIONED HIM AND HE LEFT CHRISTIANITY.

DISILLUSIONED HIM AND HE LEFT CHRISTIANITY.

>> WHEN I WENT TO UNIVERSITY AND CHRISTIANITY.

>> WHEN I WENT TO UNIVERSITY AND BEGAN STUDYING THE NEW TESTAMENT >> WHEN I WENT TO UNIVERSITY AND BEGAN STUDYING THE NEW TESTAMENT IN AN ACADEMIC ENVIRONMENT AND BEGAN STUDYING THE NEW TESTAMENT IN AN ACADEMIC ENVIRONMENT AND DISCOVERED IMMEDIATELY, AS IN AN ACADEMIC ENVIRONMENT AND DISCOVERED IMMEDIATELY, AS EVERYONE WHO DOES SO DISCOVERS, DISCOVERED IMMEDIATELY, AS EVERYONE WHO DOES SO DISCOVERS, THAT FAR FROM BEING LITERAL AND EVERYONE WHO DOES SO DISCOVERS, THAT FAR FROM BEING LITERAL AND INERRANT, THE SCRIPTURES ARE THAT FAR FROM BEING LITERAL AND INERRANT, THE SCRIPTURES ARE FIGURATIVE AND FULL OF THE MOST INERRANT, THE SCRIPTURES ARE FIGURATIVE AND FULL OF THE MOST OBVIOUS AND BLATANT ERRORS AND FIGURATIVE AND FULL OF THE MOST OBVIOUS AND BLATANT ERRORS AND CONTRADICTIONS, THAT NOTION OF OBVIOUS AND BLATANT ERRORS AND CONTRADICTIONS, THAT NOTION OF EVANGELICAL CHRISTIANITY NO CONTRADICTIONS, THAT NOTION OF EVANGELICAL CHRISTIANITY NO LONGER MADE SENSE TO ME.

EVANGELICAL CHRISTIANITY NO LONGER MADE SENSE TO ME.

>> ASLAN'S BOOK PLACES JESUS IN LONGER MADE SENSE TO ME.

>> ASLAN'S BOOK PLACES JESUS IN A LONG LINE OF NATIONALIST AND >> ASLAN'S BOOK PLACES JESUS IN A LONG LINE OF NATIONALIST AND WOULD-BE MESSIAHS WHO WANTED TO A LONG LINE OF NATIONALIST AND WOULD-BE MESSIAHS WHO WANTED TO END ROMAN OPPRESSION AND WOULD-BE MESSIAHS WHO WANTED TO END ROMAN OPPRESSION AND ESTABLISH THE KINGDOM OF GOD ON END ROMAN OPPRESSION AND ESTABLISH THE KINGDOM OF GOD ON EARTH.

ESTABLISH THE KINGDOM OF GOD ON EARTH.

>> THERE WERE MANY ZEALOTS IN EARTH.

>> THERE WERE MANY ZEALOTS IN JESUS'S TIME.

>> THERE WERE MANY ZEALOTS IN JESUS'S TIME.

IT WAS A PHENOMENON THAT WAS JESUS'S TIME.

IT WAS A PHENOMENON THAT WAS QUITE WIDESPREAD AND THAT LED TO IT WAS A PHENOMENON THAT WAS QUITE WIDESPREAD AND THAT LED TO A NUMBER OF REBELLIONS AND QUITE WIDESPREAD AND THAT LED TO A NUMBER OF REBELLIONS AND INSURGENCIES THROUGHOUT THE A NUMBER OF REBELLIONS AND INSURGENCIES THROUGHOUT THE FIRST CENTURY.

INSURGENCIES THROUGHOUT THE FIRST CENTURY.

AND THE ARGUMENT OF THE BOOK IS FIRST CENTURY.

AND THE ARGUMENT OF THE BOOK IS THAT THOSE ZEALOT IDEALS AND AND THE ARGUMENT OF THE BOOK IS THAT THOSE ZEALOT IDEALS AND PRINCIPALS ARE AT THE HEART OF THAT THOSE ZEALOT IDEALS AND PRINCIPALS ARE AT THE HEART OF JESUS'S TEACHINGS IN ACTION.

PRINCIPALS ARE AT THE HEART OF JESUS'S TEACHINGS IN ACTION.

>> IN ONE PARTICULARLY DISPUTED JESUS'S TEACHINGS IN ACTION.

>> IN ONE PARTICULARLY DISPUTED ASSERTION ASLAN SUGGESTS JESUS >> IN ONE PARTICULARLY DISPUTED ASSERTION ASLAN SUGGESTS JESUS MAY HAVE SANCTIONED VIOLENCE TO ASSERTION ASLAN SUGGESTS JESUS MAY HAVE SANCTIONED VIOLENCE TO THROW OFF ROMAN OCCUPATION.

MAY HAVE SANCTIONED VIOLENCE TO THROW OFF ROMAN OCCUPATION.

>> JESUS UNDERSTOOD THAT THE THROW OFF ROMAN OCCUPATION.

>> JESUS UNDERSTOOD THAT THE KINGDOM OF GOD, THE REMOVAL OF >> JESUS UNDERSTOOD THAT THE KINGDOM OF GOD, THE REMOVAL OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE, COULD NOT BE KINGDOM OF GOD, THE REMOVAL OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE, COULD NOT BE DONE EXCEPT THROUGH FORCE.

THE ROMAN EMPIRE, COULD NOT BE DONE EXCEPT THROUGH FORCE.

AND SO I THINK THAT THE GENERAL DONE EXCEPT THROUGH FORCE.

AND SO I THINK THAT THE GENERAL IMPRESSION OF JESUS AS SOME KIND AND SO I THINK THAT THE GENERAL IMPRESSION OF JESUS AS SOME KIND OF PACIFICISTIC PREACHER OF GOOD IMPRESSION OF JESUS AS SOME KIND OF PACIFICISTIC PREACHER OF GOOD WORKS IS INCOMPLETE AT BEST.

OF PACIFICISTIC PREACHER OF GOOD WORKS IS INCOMPLETE AT BEST.

>> HE DESCRIBES JESUS AS AN WORKS IS INCOMPLETE AT BEST.

>> HE DESCRIBES JESUS AS AN ILLITERATE PEASANT WHO TOOK ON >> HE DESCRIBES JESUS AS AN ILLITERATE PEASANT WHO TOOK ON THE POLITICAL AND RELIGIOUS ILLITERATE PEASANT WHO TOOK ON THE POLITICAL AND RELIGIOUS ESTABLISHMENT.

THE POLITICAL AND RELIGIOUS ESTABLISHMENT.

>> HIS MESSAGE WAS ESTABLISHMENT.

>> HIS MESSAGE WAS EXTRAORDINARY.

>> HIS MESSAGE WAS EXTRAORDINARY.

THIS NOTION OF THE REVERSAL OF EXTRAORDINARY.

THIS NOTION OF THE REVERSAL OF THE SOCIAL ORDER.

THIS NOTION OF THE REVERSAL OF THE SOCIAL ORDER.

THAT THE FIRST SHALL BECOME LAST THE SOCIAL ORDER.

THAT THE FIRST SHALL BECOME LAST AND THE LAST SHALL BECOME FIRST.

THAT THE FIRST SHALL BECOME LAST AND THE LAST SHALL BECOME FIRST.

THAT THE RICH WILL BE MADE POOR AND THE LAST SHALL BECOME FIRST.

THAT THE RICH WILL BE MADE POOR AND THE POOR WILL BE MADE RICH, THAT THE RICH WILL BE MADE POOR AND THE POOR WILL BE MADE RICH, THE HUNGRY FED AND THE FED GO AND THE POOR WILL BE MADE RICH, THE HUNGRY FED AND THE FED GO HUNGRY.

THE HUNGRY FED AND THE FED GO HUNGRY.

THIS WAS, AS YOU CAN IMAGINE, AN HUNGRY.

THIS WAS, AS YOU CAN IMAGINE, AN ENORMOUSLY APPEALING MESSAGE FOR THIS WAS, AS YOU CAN IMAGINE, AN ENORMOUSLY APPEALING MESSAGE FOR THE HUNGRY AND THE POOR, AND IT ENORMOUSLY APPEALING MESSAGE FOR THE HUNGRY AND THE POOR, AND IT WAS AN ENORMOUSLY THREATENING THE HUNGRY AND THE POOR, AND IT WAS AN ENORMOUSLY THREATENING MESSAGE FOR THE WELL-FED AND THE WAS AN ENORMOUSLY THREATENING MESSAGE FOR THE WELL-FED AND THE WEALTHY.

MESSAGE FOR THE WELL-FED AND THE WEALTHY.

>> HE SAYS JESUS'S DEATH BY WEALTHY.

>> HE SAYS JESUS'S DEATH BY CRUCIFIXION PROVES THE >> HE SAYS JESUS'S DEATH BY CRUCIFIXION PROVES THE AUTHORITIES SAW HIM AS A CRUCIFIXION PROVES THE AUTHORITIES SAW HIM AS A REVOLUTIONARY AND AFTER THE AUTHORITIES SAW HIM AS A REVOLUTIONARY AND AFTER THE CRUCIFIXION AND THE DESTRUCTION REVOLUTIONARY AND AFTER THE CRUCIFIXION AND THE DESTRUCTION OF THE JEWISH TEMPLE ASLAN CRUCIFIXION AND THE DESTRUCTION OF THE JEWISH TEMPLE ASLAN CONTENDS JESUS'S FOLLOWERS BEGAN OF THE JEWISH TEMPLE ASLAN CONTENDS JESUS'S FOLLOWERS BEGAN REDEFINING HIS MESSAGE, CONTENDS JESUS'S FOLLOWERS BEGAN REDEFINING HIS MESSAGE, ASSIGNING HIM SPIRITUAL, NOT REDEFINING HIS MESSAGE, ASSIGNING HIM SPIRITUAL, NOT POLITICAL INTENTIONS.

ASSIGNING HIM SPIRITUAL, NOT POLITICAL INTENTIONS.

>> AND SO BEGINS THIS ATTEMPT TO POLITICAL INTENTIONS.

>> AND SO BEGINS THIS ATTEMPT TO TEMPER JESUS'S REVOLUTIONARY >> AND SO BEGINS THIS ATTEMPT TO TEMPER JESUS'S REVOLUTIONARY IMPULSE AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE TO TEMPER JESUS'S REVOLUTIONARY IMPULSE AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE TO CLAIM THAT THE KINGDOM OF GOD IMPULSE AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE TO CLAIM THAT THE KINGDOM OF GOD THAT HE ESPOUSED WAS NOT AN CLAIM THAT THE KINGDOM OF GOD THAT HE ESPOUSED WAS NOT AN EARTHLY KINGDOM BUT A HEAVENLY THAT HE ESPOUSED WAS NOT AN EARTHLY KINGDOM BUT A HEAVENLY KINGDOM.

EARTHLY KINGDOM BUT A HEAVENLY KINGDOM.

IT MADE THIS MESSAGE FAR MORE KINGDOM.

IT MADE THIS MESSAGE FAR MORE APPEALING TO ROMANS AND INDEED IT MADE THIS MESSAGE FAR MORE APPEALING TO ROMANS AND INDEED PAVED THE WAY FOR THE ROMAN APPEALING TO ROMANS AND INDEED PAVED THE WAY FOR THE ROMAN ADOPTION OF CHRISTIANITY AND PAVED THE WAY FOR THE ROMAN ADOPTION OF CHRISTIANITY AND BEGAN THE PROCESS OF UTTERLY ADOPTION OF CHRISTIANITY AND BEGAN THE PROCESS OF UTTERLY DIVORCING CHRISTIANITY FROM ITS BEGAN THE PROCESS OF UTTERLY DIVORCING CHRISTIANITY FROM ITS PARENT RELIGION, JUDAHISM.

DIVORCING CHRISTIANITY FROM ITS PARENT RELIGION, JUDAHISM.

>> IT'S GENERATED CONTROVERSY ON PARENT RELIGION, JUDAHISM.

>> IT'S GENERATED CONTROVERSY ON MULTIPLE FRONTS.

>> IT'S GENERATED CONTROVERSY ON MULTIPLE FRONTS.

THE SEARCH FOR THE HISTORICAL MULTIPLE FRONTS.

THE SEARCH FOR THE HISTORICAL JESUS HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR THE SEARCH FOR THE HISTORICAL JESUS HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR DECADES AND MANY SAY ASLAN JESUS HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR DECADES AND MANY SAY ASLAN CONTRIBUTED NOTHING NEW.

DECADES AND MANY SAY ASLAN CONTRIBUTED NOTHING NEW.

>> MY ATTEMPT WASN'T NECESSARILY CONTRIBUTED NOTHING NEW.

>> MY ATTEMPT WASN'T NECESSARILY TO BLAZE NEW GROUND IN THE STUDY >> MY ATTEMPT WASN'T NECESSARILY TO BLAZE NEW GROUND IN THE STUDY OF THE HISTORICAL JESUS.

TO BLAZE NEW GROUND IN THE STUDY OF THE HISTORICAL JESUS.

AT THIS POINT, FRANKLY, THERE OF THE HISTORICAL JESUS.

AT THIS POINT, FRANKLY, THERE ISN'T ALL THAT MUCH NEW TO SAY.

AT THIS POINT, FRANKLY, THERE ISN'T ALL THAT MUCH NEW TO SAY.

BUT MY ATTEMPT WAS TO MAKE THAT ISN'T ALL THAT MUCH NEW TO SAY.

BUT MY ATTEMPT WAS TO MAKE THAT RESEARCH APPEALING AND BUT MY ATTEMPT WAS TO MAKE THAT RESEARCH APPEALING AND ACCESSIBLE TO A BROAD, GENERAL RESEARCH APPEALING AND ACCESSIBLE TO A BROAD, GENERAL AUDIENCE.

ACCESSIBLE TO A BROAD, GENERAL AUDIENCE.

>> THERE HAVE BEEN QUESTIONS AUDIENCE.

>> THERE HAVE BEEN QUESTIONS ABOUT ASLAN'S QUALIFICATIONS FOR >> THERE HAVE BEEN QUESTIONS ABOUT ASLAN'S QUALIFICATIONS FOR WRITING THE BOOK.

ABOUT ASLAN'S QUALIFICATIONS FOR WRITING THE BOOK.

SOME PROMINENT SCHOLARS SAY HIS WRITING THE BOOK.

SOME PROMINENT SCHOLARS SAY HIS WORK CONTAINS ERRORS AND THEY SOME PROMINENT SCHOLARS SAY HIS WORK CONTAINS ERRORS AND THEY DISPUTE HIS CONCLUSION.

WORK CONTAINS ERRORS AND THEY DISPUTE HIS CONCLUSION.

>> WOW, NEWS FLASH.

DISPUTE HIS CONCLUSION.

>> WOW, NEWS FLASH.

SCHOLARS DISAGREE.

>> WOW, NEWS FLASH.

SCHOLARS DISAGREE.

THERE ARE 10,000 DIFFERENT SCHOLARS DISAGREE.

THERE ARE 10,000 DIFFERENT ARGUMENTS ABOUT THE HISTORICAL THERE ARE 10,000 DIFFERENT ARGUMENTS ABOUT THE HISTORICAL JESUS IN THE SCHOLARLY WORLD AND ARGUMENTS ABOUT THE HISTORICAL JESUS IN THE SCHOLARLY WORLD AND 10,000 REFUTATIONS OF THEM.

JESUS IN THE SCHOLARLY WORLD AND 10,000 REFUTATIONS OF THEM.

I THINK FOR THE NON-SCHOLAR, THE 10,000 REFUTATIONS OF THEM.

I THINK FOR THE NON-SCHOLAR, THE NON-ACADEMIC IT MIGHT COME AS A I THINK FOR THE NON-SCHOLAR, THE NON-ACADEMIC IT MIGHT COME AS A SHOCK OR BE SOMEWHAT NEWSWORTHY NON-ACADEMIC IT MIGHT COME AS A SHOCK OR BE SOMEWHAT NEWSWORTHY THAT THERE ARE SCHOLARS WHO SHOCK OR BE SOMEWHAT NEWSWORTHY THAT THERE ARE SCHOLARS WHO DISAGREE WITH MY SCHOLARLY THAT THERE ARE SCHOLARS WHO DISAGREE WITH MY SCHOLARLY ANALYSIS.

DISAGREE WITH MY SCHOLARLY ANALYSIS.

BUT AMONGST WE SCHOLARS THAT'S ANALYSIS.

BUT AMONGST WE SCHOLARS THAT'S CALLED THURSDAY.

BUT AMONGST WE SCHOLARS THAT'S CALLED THURSDAY.

>> SOME READERS TAKE ISSUE WITH CALLED THURSDAY.

>> SOME READERS TAKE ISSUE WITH HOW ASLAN USES NEW TESTAMENT >> SOME READERS TAKE ISSUE WITH HOW ASLAN USES NEW TESTAMENT PASSAGES TO VALIDATE HIS HOW ASLAN USES NEW TESTAMENT PASSAGES TO VALIDATE HIS ASSERTIONS OF CERTAIN POINTS BUT PASSAGES TO VALIDATE HIS ASSERTIONS OF CERTAIN POINTS BUT THEN APPEARS TO DISMISS THE ASSERTIONS OF CERTAIN POINTS BUT THEN APPEARS TO DISMISS THE BIBLE WHEN IT DOESN'T BACK UP THEN APPEARS TO DISMISS THE BIBLE WHEN IT DOESN'T BACK UP HIS THESIS.

BIBLE WHEN IT DOESN'T BACK UP HIS THESIS.

HE CONCEDES THAT LOOKING AT HIS THESIS.

HE CONCEDES THAT LOOKING AT HISTORY CAN NEVER FULLY ANSWER HE CONCEDES THAT LOOKING AT HISTORY CAN NEVER FULLY ANSWER QUESTIONS ABOUT JESUS.

HISTORY CAN NEVER FULLY ANSWER QUESTIONS ABOUT JESUS.

>> IS IT POSSIBLE THAT UNLIKE QUESTIONS ABOUT JESUS.

>> IS IT POSSIBLE THAT UNLIKE 98% OF HIS FELLOW JEWS HE COULD >> IS IT POSSIBLE THAT UNLIKE 98% OF HIS FELLOW JEWS HE COULD READ AND WRITE?

98% OF HIS FELLOW JEWS HE COULD READ AND WRITE?

YES, IT'S POSSIBLE.

READ AND WRITE?

YES, IT'S POSSIBLE.

BUT IT'S NOT VERY LIKELY.

YES, IT'S POSSIBLE.

BUT IT'S NOT VERY LIKELY.

IS IT POSSIBLE THAT HE WAS BORN BUT IT'S NOT VERY LIKELY.

IS IT POSSIBLE THAT HE WAS BORN OF A VIRGIN AND THAT HE WAS IS IT POSSIBLE THAT HE WAS BORN OF A VIRGIN AND THAT HE WAS RESURRECTED AGAIN?

OF A VIRGIN AND THAT HE WAS RESURRECTED AGAIN?

YES, IT'S POSSIBLE.

RESURRECTED AGAIN?

YES, IT'S POSSIBLE.

BUT IT'S NOT VERY LIKELY.

YES, IT'S POSSIBLE.

BUT IT'S NOT VERY LIKELY.

AND THE HISTORIAN IS INTERESTED BUT IT'S NOT VERY LIKELY.

AND THE HISTORIAN IS INTERESTED IN NOT WHAT IS POSSIBLE BUT WHAT AND THE HISTORIAN IS INTERESTED IN NOT WHAT IS POSSIBLE BUT WHAT IS LIKELY.

IN NOT WHAT IS POSSIBLE BUT WHAT IS LIKELY.

>> IN THE END CHRISTIANS WILL IS LIKELY.

>> IN THE END CHRISTIANS WILL LIKELY STILL RELY ON FAITH.

>> IN THE END CHRISTIANS WILL LIKELY STILL RELY ON FAITH.

BUT ASLAN SAYS EVEN AS A MUSLIM LIKELY STILL RELY ON FAITH.

BUT ASLAN SAYS EVEN AS A MUSLIM HE FOUND HIMSELF PROFOUNDLY BUT ASLAN SAYS EVEN AS A MUSLIM HE FOUND HIMSELF PROFOUNDLY DRAWN TO THE JESUS OF HIS HE FOUND HIMSELF PROFOUNDLY DRAWN TO THE JESUS OF HIS RESEARCH.

DRAWN TO THE JESUS OF HIS RESEARCH.

>> THAT MAN SEEMED SO MUCH MORE RESEARCH.

>> THAT MAN SEEMED SO MUCH MORE REAL TO ME THAN THE SORT OF >> THAT MAN SEEMED SO MUCH MORE REAL TO ME THAN THE SORT OF CELESTIAL SPIRIT THAT I WAS REAL TO ME THAN THE SORT OF CELESTIAL SPIRIT THAT I WAS TAUGHT IN CHURCH.

CELESTIAL SPIRIT THAT I WAS TAUGHT IN CHURCH.

THAT'S A MAN THAT I WANT TO TAUGHT IN CHURCH.

THAT'S A MAN THAT I WANT TO FOLLOW.

THAT'S A MAN THAT I WANT TO FOLLOW.

THAT'S A MAN THAT I WANT TO BE FOLLOW.

THAT'S A MAN THAT I WANT TO BE LIKE.

THAT'S A MAN THAT I WANT TO BE LIKE.

HOW TO CONFRONT POWERS.

LIKE.

HOW TO CONFRONT POWERS.

HOW TO STAND UP FOR SOCIAL HOW TO CONFRONT POWERS.

HOW TO STAND UP FOR SOCIAL JUSTICE.

HOW TO STAND UP FOR SOCIAL JUSTICE.

I LEARNED ALL THAT FROM THE JUSTICE.

I LEARNED ALL THAT FROM THE HISTORICAL JESUS.

I LEARNED ALL THAT FROM THE HISTORICAL JESUS.

NOT FROM THE CHRIST OF FAITH.

HISTORICAL JESUS.

NOT FROM THE CHRIST OF FAITH.

>> I'M KIM LAWTON REPORTING.

NOT FROM THE CHRIST OF FAITH.

>> I'M KIM LAWTON REPORTING.

>> AS KIM REPORTED, MANY >> I'M KIM LAWTON REPORTING.

>> AS KIM REPORTED, MANY SCHOLARS, BELIEVERS AND >> AS KIM REPORTED, MANY SCHOLARS, BELIEVERS AND OTHERWISE, STRONGLY DISPUTE SCHOLARS, BELIEVERS AND OTHERWISE, STRONGLY DISPUTE ASLAN'S CONCLUSIONS.

OTHERWISE, STRONGLY DISPUTE ASLAN'S CONCLUSIONS.

YOU CAN FIND LINKS TO SOME OF ASLAN'S CONCLUSIONS.

YOU CAN FIND LINKS TO SOME OF THOSE ARTICLES AND AN EXTENDED YOU CAN FIND LINKS TO SOME OF THOSE ARTICLES AND AN EXTENDED INTERVIEW WITH ASLAN ON OUR THOSE ARTICLES AND AN EXTENDED INTERVIEW WITH ASLAN ON OUR WEBSITE AT PBS.ORG.

INTERVIEW WITH ASLAN ON OUR WEBSITE AT PBS.ORG.

>>> FINALLY, AT THE VATICAN AT A WEBSITE AT PBS.ORG.

>>> FINALLY, AT THE VATICAN AT A CEREMONY HONORING FAMILIES, A >>> FINALLY, AT THE VATICAN AT A CEREMONY HONORING FAMILIES, A YOUNG BOY DECIDED HE SHOULD CEREMONY HONORING FAMILIES, A YOUNG BOY DECIDED HE SHOULD PARTICIPATE.

YOUNG BOY DECIDED HE SHOULD PARTICIPATE.

HE WANDERED UP TO POPE FRANCIS.

PARTICIPATE.

HE WANDERED UP TO POPE FRANCIS.

HE EVADED ALL THE AIDES AND HE WANDERED UP TO POPE FRANCIS.

HE EVADED ALL THE AIDES AND SECURITY GUARDS TRYING TO GET HE EVADED ALL THE AIDES AND SECURITY GUARDS TRYING TO GET HIM OFF STAGE.

SECURITY GUARDS TRYING TO GET HIM OFF STAGE.

HE MUCH PREFERRED BEING AT HIM OFF STAGE.

HE MUCH PREFERRED BEING AT FRANCIS'S SIDE.

HE MUCH PREFERRED BEING AT FRANCIS'S SIDE.

THE SCRIPTURE AT THAT GATHERING FRANCIS'S SIDE.

THE SCRIPTURE AT THAT GATHERING WAS MATTHEW 11:28, BEGINNING THE SCRIPTURE AT THAT GATHERING WAS MATTHEW 11:28, BEGINNING "COME UNTO ME."

WAS MATTHEW 11:28, BEGINNING "COME UNTO ME."

THAT'S OUR PROGRAM FOR NOW.

"COME UNTO ME."

THAT'S OUR PROGRAM FOR NOW.

I'M BOB ABERNETHY.

THAT'S OUR PROGRAM FOR NOW.

I'M BOB ABERNETHY.

YOU CAN FOLLOW US ON TWITTER AND I'M BOB ABERNETHY.

YOU CAN FOLLOW US ON TWITTER AND FACEBOOK AND WATCH US ANYTIME ON YOU CAN FOLLOW US ON TWITTER AND FACEBOOK AND WATCH US ANYTIME ON THE PBS APP FOR iPHONES AND FACEBOOK AND WATCH US ANYTIME ON THE PBS APP FOR iPHONES AND iPADS AND VISIT OUR WEBSITE, THE PBS APP FOR iPHONES AND iPADS AND VISIT OUR WEBSITE, WHERE THERE'S ALWAYS MUCH MORE iPADS AND VISIT OUR WEBSITE, WHERE THERE'S ALWAYS MUCH MORE AND WHERE YOU CAN LISTEN TO AND WHERE THERE'S ALWAYS MUCH MORE AND WHERE YOU CAN LISTEN TO AND WATCH EACH OF OUR PROGRAMS.

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AS WE LEAVE YOU, MUSIC FROM THE JOIN US AT PBS.ORG.

AS WE LEAVE YOU, MUSIC FROM THE BLIND BOYS OF ALABAMA, AS WE LEAVE YOU, MUSIC FROM THE BLIND BOYS OF ALABAMA, PERFORMING AT THE HAMILTON LIVE BLIND BOYS OF ALABAMA, PERFORMING AT THE HAMILTON LIVE MUSIC VENUE IN WASHINGTON, D.C.

PERFORMING AT THE HAMILTON LIVE MUSIC VENUE IN WASHINGTON, D.C. ♪ THAT'S WHY WE'RE YOUR RETIREMENT THAT'S WHY WE'RE YOUR RETIREMENT COMPANY.

THAT'S WHY WE'RE YOUR RETIREMENT COMPANY.

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