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- This is One-On-One.

- I'm an equal American just like you are.

- The jobs of tomorrow are not the jobs of yesterday.

- I'’m hopeful that this is the beginning to accountability.

- Life without dance is boring.

- I don't care how good you are or how good you think you are, there is always something to learn.

- I did do the finale, and guess where my trailer was?

A block away from my apartment, it couldn'’t have been better!

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-_ It'’s not all about memorizing and getting information, it'’s what you do with that information.

- (slowly) Start talking right now.

- That's a good question, high five.

(upbeat music) - All right folks, "Remember Them".

Steve Adubato, Jacqui Tricarico.

Jacqui, today we recognize, we honor, we remember three historic significant political figures, African American political leaders in the state.

They include the Reverend Samuel Howard Woodson, a speaker, the Speaker of the State Assembly in New Jersey, the extraordinary state Senator Wynona Lipman, the first African American woman to serve in a Senate in New Jersey.

And also the honorable John S. Watson, who again I was honored to do an interview that you'll see with Congresswoman Bonnie Watson Coleman about her father John Watson, who I was honored to serve with in the legislature.

He was the chair of the Assembly Appropriations, and Budget Committee the first African American to lead that committee, just a powerful figure.

It's an important show, Jacqui.

- Yeah, and we're so lucky to have Rick Thigpen join us again from PSE&G He is from PSE&G, but also just a historian in his own right, he loves to talk about really significant people from New Jersey who have made a difference in and around our community here.

So having him on and join us again to be able to talk about these three prominent figures is really fantastic.

And like you said, we have Congresswoman Bonnie Watson Coleman joining us on the backend to talk about her father.

And she really gets choked up talking about her father's legacy, and how she herself is really trying to carry that on through her work that she's doing, as well.

- You know, it's so interesting, and Jacqui, you know this from our work together, and Jacqui works with a great team of producers, plus our team behind the scenes that does all the production and makes things look and sound right.

We've been longtime partners with Kean University.

Kean University has the John S. Watson Urban Research Center Institute, if I get that wrong, I apologize.

But that Watson Center is so significant doing urban research, Kean University is the designated urban research higher ed institution in the state, and it's named after John Watson for a reason out of Trenton, New Jersey made a huge difference, a leader on urban issues across the state.

And Congresswoman Bonnie Watson Coleman is carrying out that legacy, Jacqui.

- Yeah, she really is.

And we're so lucky to have Kean University as one of our partners, like you said, and really have so many different people on our programming, too, that really lead in the footsteps of John S. Watson in so many different ways even if they don't even know that they are.

- Hey Jacqui, you ready for this?

Only because you put great notes together with our team.

The John S. Watson Institute for Urban Policy and Research at Kean University.

- It's a mouthful.

- You didn't think I had that, did you?

- No, it is a mouthful and I'll admit, I forget it.

A lot of the times I have to always double check myself.

- That's why we're there to check each other.

So listen, we kick off.

We kick off with Rick Thigpen.

- We do, yep, we kick kick off with Rick Thigpen talking John S. Watson a little bit, Senator Wynona Lipman, like you mentioned, and Howard Woodson.

- All very, very important figures.

And that's why Jacqui and I and our terrific team remember them.

For Jacqui and myself.

Let's remember three extraordinary, important African-American leaders.

[UPLIFTING MUSIC] [UPLIFTING MUSIC] - We are honored to be joined, once again, by our good friend, Rick Thigpen, Senior Vice-President of Corporate Citizenship at P-S-E-G, one of our longtime underwriters.

Good to see you, Rick.

- Good afternoon Steve.

How you doing?

- I'm doing great.

Rick, you are a historian of epic proportions.

I've said this before.

It's not part of your official job, but it's- - History buff.

- Yeah, you care deeply.

And so today, we wanna look at three leaders in state government in New Jersey, the Reverend Assemblyman Howard Woodson, State Senator Wynona Lipman, and State Assemblyman John S. Watson.

Gone, but not forgotten, part of our "Remember Them" One-on-One series.

Can we start with the Reverend Howard Woodson?

A giant in New Jersey state government.

A giant in the state legislature.

The first Speaker of the House, if I'm not mistaken, of African-American.

- First African-American Speaker of the House in New Jersey.

And the first African American Speaker of any legislative body in the United States since reconstruction.

Reverend Woodson, and you mentioned, we're gonna talk about Senator Lipman, and Assemblyman John Watson, are all part of a story of the growing empowerment of African Americans, and the growing opportunity for African Americans to contribute in the world of politics in New Jersey, which was primarily unleashed by the Voting Rights Act.

But back to Reverend Woodson, you talked about, not only is he historic figure in the sense that he was the first African-American presiding officer of any legislative body in America since reconstruction, he was also a prototypical leader that many have tried to emulate since, and very few have succeeded.

He was a pastor of a church, Shiloh Baptist Church in Trenton, a very successful church, but he was also the president of the Trenton N-A-A-C-P, and after that, the state conference of N-A-A-C-P. And so, he was also a civil rights leader.

And Reverend Woodson is one of those prime examples, perhaps the premier example, of how a pastor took civil rights and empowerment into the world of elected politics.

The first African American elected to the Trenton City Council, and as we mentioned, elected to the New Jersey State Legislature for Mercer County, and the first African American to be elected Speaker of our New Jersey General Assembly.

Really a remarkable accomplishment by a very kind and generous man who understood the importance of empowerment.

And I feel privileged because I had a chance to meet Reverend Woodson, and he would, and he truly was a very special man.

And he made an impact on New Jersey for a long time.

And his model is one that few have tried to, I'm sorry, many have tried to follow, and very few have been able to match him, if any.

- As you listen to Rick, think about this, that Reverend Woodson- - Yes.

- Becomes a Speaker of the state assembly, with a 90% plus, the white population in the state assembly.

90% plus, easily.

- Yes.

- So he got the, he led, he was able to build trust, build relationships, disproportionately with white legislators.

Talk about how incredibly challenging that must have been, Rick.

- Well it's challenging today, and even more challenging 50 years ago, Steve.

There's no question.

And you know, there's a big story in there of which uncovering the history is very interesting.

Reverend Woodson was a candidate for Speaker in the prior term, and he was beat out by none other than a guy named Tom Kean to be Speaker.

And Tom Kean became the Speaker, with the votes of a couple of members of the Democratic caucus.

- Hold on one second folks.

Tom Kean, a Republican state assemblyman becomes the Speaker of the Assembly when the Republicans were in the minority, and they didn't, the Democrats didn't vote for Woodson, some voted for Kean, and that's how Woodson lost?

- There was something like a 39-39 assembly, or 40-39.

I think a guy, who you may have heard of, called Anthony Imperiale, was also, Anthony Imperiale was also- - an independent.

- And he was an independent.

So I think it was, yes.

So he didn't have 41 votes to be Speaker.

It required some democratic support, and he got that support.

And the reason I raise it is, because can you for sure disconnect that from the fact that you just raised that Reverend Woodson was the first African American leader of the Democratic caucus, and was now candidate for Speaker, a history making step for New Jersey.

And you know, it's a story, Steve, that happens over and over again.

Not only is it challenging to build those relationships, but the story of setbacks when African Americans do advance, is not unusual.

And this is likely to have been one of those stories.

But back to your question, Reverend Woodson was a kind man.

He was a man of God, a pastor of a church.

He was a Baptist preacher.

And he was able to build trust in relationships with people of all spectrums.

And that's really what it takes to be good in politics anyway.

So he's a real role model for people.

And he's just another example that excellence comes in all different packages in our great state.

And Reverend Howard Woodson is one of those truly exceptional individuals that we are lucky to have come, you know, past us in the past.

- Let's keep talking about exceptional leaders and individuals.

- Yes.

- State Senator Wynona Lipman, that I was honored, as a young man growing up in Brick City, Newark, New Jersey, to have met, to have actually served in the state legislature in the mid 1980s, while she was in the Senate.

The first African American woman to serve in the Senate.

- Yes.

- Talk about Senator Lipman and her extraordinary legacy.

- Also a very interesting story.

A woman who I had the chance to spend quite a bit of time with myself, being engaged in Essex County politics as a young man, and never really understanding the significance of the woman who I spent time with, or the importance of her as a historical figure.

Not only is she the first African American woman elected to the New Jersey State Senate, she started as a Montclair, a municipal chairman.

She was never really warmly embraced by the Democratic Party, but she is another example of that, of empowerment, and the power of the Voting Rights Act.

I believe it was eight times that Senator Lipman ran for office, and never received below 80% of the vote.

A woman who was very strong.

She was very independent.

She came to represent the city of Newark with grace and dignity.

I, to this day, can still remember her Saturday morning meetings at Essex County College with small businesses, trying to be a part of helping create opportunity, and bring a whole community into the economic mainstream of our state, so that we can contribute and help our state grow, but she also cared about women's issues.

She was big on caring about children, and she was a proud advocate for the equality of people of color.

So she had a long career.

I believe it was 27 years when she passed away in office.

She was the longest serving member of the state senate.

She made a mark on all of us.

I still remember spending time with her with Donald Payne, and people, you know, didn't appreciate Senator Lipman.

They'd call her crazy.

The crazy woman, first off was a tutor to Martin Luther King as a younger person.

- That's right.

- When she lived in Georgia.

And I can still, to this day, remember Donald Payne saying, "Yeah, she's crazy, crazy like a fox."

She always outsmarted her enemies.

She was always able to maneuver successfully in politics.

And she's an example of having an important voice of African American women in this case, be heard at the policymaking level in our state.

And I think very few people would argue that our state is better off for having that voice be a participant.

She's still honored at the Center for American Women in Politics with a chair there, and- - At Rutgers University, the Eagleton Institute.

How about Wynona's House in Newark?

- And Wynona's House in Newark for children who have suffered abuse.

So, she really was a prime example of how the government can look out for those less fortunate, how the government can be a force for quality, and how the government can help make our communities better by caring about people, and not being so cold, or being so indifferent to people.

And she's a prime example of how proud we should be as African Americans, that when we were given the opportunity to contribute, people like Wynona Lipman stepped forward and made fantastic contributions.

And it's worth mentioning, a native of Georgia, when she married a man who happened to be white, it was illegal in the state of Georgia for her to be married to someone who was white.

That our country, really, should not forget that it's taking a very long journey forward towards equality, and that it is not coming easy for many people, and that we should be thankful for those who've come before us, who've struggled to make our state and our country better.

- On that note, Rick mentions Donald Payne, Congressman Donald Payne.

There was a "Remember Them".

- I'm gonna bring him up.

Yes - No, no.

There's an episode of "Remember Them" on Congressman Payne.

Congressman Payne, Jr. - Junior.

I'm talking about Senior, Steve.

- He's senior.

I know.

But check out our interview with Congressman Donald Payne Jr., about his father.

That's part of Rick's family that's close.

It's very close.

Rick, real quick, we're gonna, we're about to go into an interview that we did with Congresswoman Bonnie Watson Coleman talking about her dad, John S. Watson.

Give me a minute on John Watson.

Why he mattered so much.

- First off, John Watson, a another gentleman I met.

So I feel like I'm a part of history.

I know these people, Steve.

He was a mentor to me.

He did me an invaluable service with giving me advice.

I had the opportunity, again with Congressman Payne, to spend time with John Watson, more towards the end of his life.

But he was a close protege of Howard Woodson.

They attacked the challenge of civil rights, and empowerment in politics, together, in Mercer County.

John Watson got elected to the State General Assembly.

He became chairman of the Appropriations Committee.

He had aspirations to go even higher, but he was thwarted in that.

But he also succeeded in that he was a part of helping continue the march forward for African Americans to achieve the goal of equality and empowerment in the great state of New Jersey.

And along those lines, Steve, you know, John was great.

He worked well with Congressman Donald Payne.

Not only was John denied opportunity, and, you know, because he is African-American, but he achieved the dream when his daughter became the first African American woman elected to Congress in the state of New Jersey in 2014.

All part of this journey for empowerment.

I just wanna mention two other steps along that line.

Well, three steps.

One was Donald Payne, Senior, becoming the first African American elected to Congress in the state of New Jersey in 1988, in a district that was drawn because of the Voting Rights Act, were all a part of history.

And we cannot forget Sheila Oliver, who in 2010 became the first African American woman who was Speaker of the General Assembly.

And in 2013, Cory Booker became the first African American elected the statewide office in the state of New Jersey, when he was elected to the United States Senate.

And he was followed by Sheila Oliver, in 2017, becoming the Lieutenant Governor.

So this march to empowerment continues, and excellence can come from all different types of people, Steve.

- Rick Thigpen, we learn every time Thank you so much.

We appreciate it my friend.

- Thank you, Steve.

- Stay with us folks.

We'll be right back.

- [Narrator] To watch more One on One with Steve Adubato find us online and follow us on Social media.

- This is "Remember Them", also going to be seen on "One on One".

I'm Steve Abubato.

Today, we remember, we honor the late assemblyman, John S. Watson.

And who better to join us to talk about her dad, her father, is United States Congresswoman Bonnie Watson Coleman.

Congresswoman, thank you for joining us.

- Thank you for having me, and thank you for taking this moment to remember my daddy.

-Your dad grew up where?

- He grew up in Camden.

He grew up in South Jersey.

- Where does the Trenton piece come in?

Because you and your family in Trenton - - Yeah.

- big part of the Trenton community for years.

Where does Trenton come in?

- In the fifties, he had a business opportunity to be a part owner of a tavern in Trenton.

So, he moved us up to Ewing Township right outside of Trenton.

- You know, and I've shared this before with and you know this from our friendship and history together, when I served in the state legislature as a very, very young man in the mid eighties, I served on the "Assembly Appropriations and Finance Committee".

Your father, Assemblyman John S. Watson, was the chair of that committee.

He served with distinction.

With class.

He was fair to everyone no matter whether he agreed or disagreed with them.

his even demeanor no matter what was going on around him, and his respect for his colleagues no matter how much he disagreed with them, comes from, came from, where?

- His heart.

His belief.

He wanted to do for others.

He believed in fairness.

He was just a good man.

However, I want you to know, that there was the other side of him.

If you crossed him, or you crossed the people that he needed you to respect, he was quite forthright in coming in to your space and letting you know.

I remember one once when one of the unions was beating up on then Governor Florio.

My dad was out there pointing fingers and, you know, telling him, you're not paying attention.

You're not, you know, you're not being realistic, that kind of thing.

But, my mother and my father were so much alike.

They were just, like, decent people who cared about other people.

And my daddy was selected out of a group of businessmen, black businessmen and activists, to be the first to run against the Democratic party, because the Democratic party relied upon the black vote to win, but was never advancing any candidates on the county level.

So he - - Oh, hold on.

So hold on.

Was he the first, I'm sorry for interrupting.

Was he in fact the first freeholder, which is a top level legislative position on the county level, in Mercer County?

The first African American?

- Yes.

He was the first.

Now the first time he ran, he ran with Jerry Stockman, his friend.

They didn't win, but Daddy was then appointed, and then subsequently, he was elected.

And he was elected to the board.

He was the first black freeholder director.

At least in the state, if not in the country.

And from there, he was elected to the Assembly.

Amazing - - It is amazing because, again, it's so hard for so many of us to appreciate what it means to be the first to break through to, to change the culture of politics and government in our state and our nation.

And again, I've said this many times, I'll keep repeating it, a mentor to me, a mentor to many as to how one comports him or herself in being a public official, being an elected official, being a legislator.

But what I'm curious about is this.

How did he get selected as the chair of that very powerful and important "Finance and Appropriation Committee" in the lower house, which had such a major say over how money was spent.

How did that happen?

He, I believe, was one the first, was the first in that role as well.

- Yes.

Yeah.

Well, dad had the personality where he got along with everybody.

He had a lot of respect, and he had the respect come back at him.

He was loyal to the party, but he was also holding the party accountable to do the right thing.

- That's right.

- And, I think like, I don't know.

I wasn't in the room when the decision was made, but I think they made the decision about daddy taking on that role was because of his personality, because of the work that he had done, because his capacity to foster healthy relationships, and because they knew that he would be true to his values.

And that was very important to him.

That's something, you know, he and my mom, like, shared with us every dinner hour.

That was the conversation.

And who you are, what your responsibility is.

I used to tell my daddy, your service as an assemblyman is really your ministry.

Because you care so much about people.

And what what God says about our responsibility, for those who are least among us.

That's who he is.

And that's who he was.

And that's the life he lived.

- So, the John S. Watson Urban Research Policy and Research Institute at Kean University.

It's so appropriately named.

The focus is on what Assemblyman Watson, your dad, cared so deeply about.

Why does that institute matter so much in honoring your father?

- First, let me say that the institute was first housed at Thomas Edison State College.

- That's right.

His friend, Dr. George Pruitt, really thought that this was a legacy to my dad's work.

My dad's focus was always on communities of need.

Whether or not it was the educational communities, the municipalities, the counties, whatever.

The issues, whatever.

It is expanding now and into issues of environmental justice, social determinants of health, just a whole range of what should we be looking at and how can we be looking at those who are living in challenging environments, which tend to be our oldest cities.

And what's happening as a result of the gentrification of those oldest cities.

Where will people be going?

How will they have access to school, to transportation, to healthcare, et cetera.

Kean is growing by leaps and bounds.

It's, you know, becoming a globally appreciated university.

And I'm so excited that dad's, that the school that's named after dad, that the institute that's named after daddy is there.

Because they dare to think more broadly and get into areas that perhaps had not been explored - - Interesting.

- before.

So... - It's a big deal.

- Go ahead.

- It's a big, I'm sorry for cutting you off.

In the time I have left, I need to ask you this.

I've never asked you this, but I want to ask you.

How proud do you believe your father would be of you?

- Daddy always wanted one of us to to run for public office, wanted us to succeed in in the assembly.

And my three brothers are like, "No way, you've already compromised our anonymity enough, We can't do anything without somebody telling on us," you know?

But when he died, that was my way, and his seat became available, that was my way of keeping him alive.

Because I lost the first love of my life in my daddy.

And he lived with me until he died.

I, the first time I spoke on the floor of the assembly, I swear to you, I got up.

I was a nervous wreck.

I could see my daddy right here speaking with me.

Telling me, "go 'head Bon."

And I think that daddy would say, "See!

I knew one of my kids was gonna be able to do this and I'm proud of her.

And she's moved it to a different level.

I just want her to continue to function in the realm of her values."

And that's what I tried to do.

So, yeah, I think he and my mother would be both proud and shocked that I took this on.

And so I believe that I'm where I'm supposed to be, Steve.

I didn't seek it.

It just is where I'm supposed to be.

- Bonnie, thank you.

- It's good to see you.

Thanks for letting me have this conversation about my first love in my life.

- It is our responsibility and our honor to honor and remember your father.

All the best Bonnie.

- [Narrator] One-On-One with Steve Adubato has been a production of the Caucus Educational Corporation.

Funding has been provided by PSE&G, NJM Insurance Group.

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