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- This is One-On-One.

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(upbeat music) - Hi everyone.

Steve Adubato with my colleague, Jacqui Tricarico.

Jacqui, we remember, in this segment, Christopher and Dana Reeve and you did a powerful interview here.

Set it up, tee it up as we look at the autobiography of Christopher Reeve right there.

Who was he and why is he, not, I keep saying he, but it's Christopher and Dana Reeve.

Talk about them.

- Yeah, Dana, his wife, Christopher Reeve being the iconic and first Superman, right?

Having a horrific accident, a freak accident really, falling off of his horse and virtually becoming paralyzed from the neck down.

It's all about his journey and his life after this just really terrible accident but what he decided to do with that.

He still became, and still continued, to be a superhero, but in a different way, giving back to the community, giving back to those who also suffered spinal cord injuries, and starting the foundation along with his wife by his side, Dana.

And they put so much time and effort and resources into trying to advance the science behind spinal cord injuries and finding a cure, essentially, for those suffering, you know, like this in wheelchairs for the rest of their lives.

He was so committed to wanting to find a way to walk again.

And talking to Maggie all about these two really important people-- - Maggie, put that in perspective, 'cause it's the first time you mentioned Maggie's name.

That's Maggie Goldberg.

- Yeah, Maggie Goldberg, who is the President and CEO of the Christopher and Dana Reeve Foundation.

- And P.S., he rehabbed at Kessler Rehab, which is right in New Jersey.

And Christopher, and they had a New Jersey connection.

Sorry for interrupting, Jacqui.

They had a New Jersey connection, right?

- Yeah, Christopher, he was raised in New Jersey, in Princeton, actually, with his single mother, him and his brother here.

Always came back to New Jersey, he had roots here, and they started the foundation here.

It continues to thrive here in New Jersey and he lived in New Jersey for many years as well.

So definitely that New Jersey connection.

- So this is Jacqui Tricarico talking to Maggie Goldberg, who is the CEO, as she said, of the Christopher and Dana Reeve Foundation.

An important interview, check it out.

- [Narrator] Actor, director and activist are just some of the words used to describe Christopher Reeve.

Growing up in Princeton, Reeve always wanted to be an actor.

From his first appearance at the Williamstown Theater Festival at only 15, he went on to establish a reputation as one of the country's leading actors.

Paralyzed in a riding accident in 1995, however, Christopher Reeve not only put a human face on spinal cord injury, he motivated neuroscientists around the world to conquer the most complex diseases of the brain and central nervous system.

Graduating from Cornell University in 1974, Reeve headed to Broadway where he made his debut opposite Catherine Hepburn in "A Matter of Gravity" in 1976.

Films followed with "Superman" in 1978.

"Death Trap," "The Bostonians," "Noises Off," and the Oscar nominated, "The Remains of the Day."

His directoral debut in 1997 earned five Emmy nominations and won six CableACE Awards, including best director.

He later won the Screen Actor's Guild Award for best actor for his role in the remake of the classic Hitchcock thriller, "Rear Window."

But beyond acting and directing, Reeve was a tireless advocate for the Reeve Foundation and issues for the disabled.

Always an activist, hall of famer Christopher Reeve will be remembered for teaching us that nothing is impossible.

(upbeat music) - Joining us now is Maggie Goldberg, who is the President and CEO of the Christopher and Dana Reeve Foundation.

Maggie, it's so great to have you with us.

- Thank you for having me, thrilled to be here.

- Let's first talk about Christopher Reeve before his spinal cord injury.

Tell us a little bit about him for people who don't know who he was.

- Sure.

Well, Christopher Reeve is best known for playing Superman, the first of four movies that came out in 1978, but he was New Jersey, born and bred, having grown up in Princeton.

So he started acting in high school.

He then went on to graduate from Cornell University, and after that he went to Juilliard to pursue acting where he actually ended up rooming with Robin Williams.

- Robin Williams ended up becoming a close friend of his over the years, right?

- That's right.

They were best friends, the best of the best.

- And you know, Christopher Reeve, he was active.

His career was really just taking off in so many different ways with "Superman" and a lot of other projects were on the horizon for him.

Talk about that day, and I've seen Christopher Reeve talk about it in-depth during his 2020 interview with Barbara Walters, which he actually did at the Kessler Foundation, at the Kessler Rehab Center, yeah, in New Jersey, just a few months after his injury.

But talk about that day, he called it a freak accident.

He was on his horse.

Describe what happened for us to understand why and how this spinal cord injury happened.

- So he had become an avid horseman, I guess is the right term, and had been competing in different various competitions.

He was in Charlottesville, Virginia, and he was, from what I understand, it was just a typical jump.

They don't know if the horse was spooked, but he was thrown from the horse and landed on his head, and he was 6'4" tall, you know, over 200 pounds, and it was called a hangman's break.

So they literally had to operate and fused the head back to the body.

It was highly, highly unusual.

So from that day on, he was living as a ventilated quadriplegic and needed assistance to breathe and wasn't able to move anything below his shoulders.

- And I know during that time when he was in his hospital bed and they were deciding what to do with him and his wife Dana, Dana was by his side and ready to be there for him no matter what happened.

Talk about Dana and her commitment to just being there for her husband, and then also both of their commitments to bringing resources and knowledge and help to other people suffering from spinal cord injuries.

- Sure.

So I guess at some point when Christopher came out of the, you know, the haze of the drugs, if you will, and realized what had happened, he said, "Maybe we should just let me go."

And she said, "I'm only gonna say this once, it's your decision, but you're still you and I love you."

And he said, "Okay, let's give it two years and we'll see how I do."

And he had been a real activist and advocate prior to his injury for a variety of causes.

He was used to speaking on Capitol Hill.

He was used to, you know, raising money for causes.

So, you know, he said this cause found him and he became an ardent supporter of research.

He started the Christopher Reeve Foundation, which then merged with the New Jersey-based American Paralysis Association.

And he really just was on a mission to increase awareness and funds for spinal cord injury.

At the same time, his wife Dana was, you know, his wife and his caregiver, but she said, "You know, we need to do something for people in the here and now."

And so it was Dana who really started the care side of the foundation and (indistinct) mission.

- Yeah, and talk about, you know, why they wanted to set that up in New Jersey in Short Hills particularly, and why that foundation has found its home here and how important the location is.

- Sure.

Well, we actually were founded in 1982 when a 17-year-old from Short Hills New Jersey with spinal cord injury in a car accident.

And at the time, his parents' friends came together and said, "We need to do something.

We need to fund research."

And what they found was there wasn't a lot of research that actually existed.

So they really started the field.

It was considered at the time the graveyard of neuroscience.

So they said, "We need to get other researchers excited about this field, infuse money," and it kind of grew and grew.

So it was a family foundation, the Stifel Paralysis Foundation.

It then merged with the American Paralysis Association, they were based in Texas and they never, you know, they closed shop, and here we are in Short Hills, and then Christopher Reeve was living in Westchester County, New York, and there really was no need for us to ever move into New York City.

So here we are.

We've literally been based in Short Hills for over 40 years.

- The research that has been done, obviously Christopher, he was determined to walk again, that was his ultimate goal.

He didn't reach that goal before his passing, but there were advancements that were made.

There were changes that were made.

He was continuing to back the science and back the scientists and pushing for more research to be done.

Talk about where we are today with the research on spinal cord injury.

And do you think Christopher and Dana would be proud with the progress that's been made?

- I think they would be really excited, because the progress has been so much faster than when he was alive.

So he was obviously on-- He could call any researcher across around the world to ask them, "What are you working on?

You know, how can we help you?

You know, how is this gonna benefit other people living with paralysis?"

And at the time, and this is still believed, it was really important that you keep your body moving.

So when Chris was injured, six years after his injury, he actually was able to move a finger and no one knew why.

And they think it was because of the movement that he was doing, the exercise bikes and in the pool, and it was like the neurons were reawakened.

Now, fast forward 20 years later after his passing, we have so many tools.

It's all about, you know, it's not just one or two things.

Everyone was talking about stem cells, and that's not what's gonna quote cure paralysis.

Now we know it's gonna be several things that come together.

So we're really excited about epidural stimulation.

We've funded several studies that have shown the improvements.

And I think the difference now that I think Chris and Dana would be really proud of is we're listening to our community members.

So when you think about someone being paralyzed, you think they can't walk, and what you don't know are all the secondary complications that come with it.

You know, you can't control your temperature, your blood pressure.

You have bowel, bladder issues.

You know, you might not be able to access your local movie theater or your restaurant.

You know, there's societal barriers as well.

And our community members are telling us like, you know, we need to fix- walking's not the most important thing.

We want our bowel, bladder back.

We want, if you're living with quadriplegia, you wanna get your hand function back.

Christopher used to say, "If I just had one hand, I'd be able to drive and I'd have freedom."

So I think that's the difference is now we're really excited about the pace of the research and the promise, because all those people 40 years ago that joined the field all have labs across the world.

- And 20 years it's been since his passing and Dana passing just a few years after Christopher Reeve passed, both way too young.

The recent documentary has been created, and I know Christopher Reeve's children were really involved with it.

It's called "Super/Man" was at Sundance Film Festival not too long ago, and hopefully is gonna be brought to anybody that wants to watch it on a bigger platform.

Why do you think it was so important 20 years after his passing to finally create this documentary to showcase Christopher Reeve, not just the face for spinal cord injury, but the superhero that he continued to be after that injury?

- Well, as the three Reeve children who are all adults now said, the time felt right because of the anniversary of the passing.

But they felt like they'd been approached so many times about the sharing of this story, and it just felt right.

They felt like the foundation's in a really good place.

It would contribute to the legacy and it would ultimately help raise awareness.

And it's a remarkable film.

I was lucky enough to see it.

It will make you laugh, it'll make you cry.

It will inspire you.

You'll see parts of Christopher's life that have never been exposed to the public before.

So I think it's really gonna be emotional and motivating for people.

- I can't wait to see it.

Maggie, thank you so much for giving us some perspective and some inside look on Christopher Reeve and Dana Reeve as well, his wife, and the impact that they continue to have still here in New Jersey, throughout our country, throughout our world, with the foundation.

Thank you so much for joining us.

- Thank you, it's my pleasure.

- Let's keep an eye out for that documentary.

The Christopher Reeve documentary should be available hopefully soon to all of us, so we can all check it out.

Stay with us, we'll be right back after this.

- [Narrator] To watch more One on One with Steve Adubato find us online and follow us on Social media.

Now we switch gears and talk about Flip Wilson with the author of a compelling book called "Flip: the Inside Story of TV's First Black Superstar.

All About Flip Wilson."

And we talked to Kevin Cook.

I did this interview earlier today, Jacqui.

You were on board, you were producing along with Jackie Heyer on this.

What did you take away from that?

- Well, Flip Wilson, I do wanna point out, he is a New Jersey Hall of Fame Inductee, got inducted in 2019.

But his roots in New Jersey, Jersey City, he was born and he was born one of, I think it was 18 brothers and sisters into poverty, really, in Jersey City and ended up in foster care.

But he didn't, my takeaway is he didn't let any of that stop him from pursuing his career and his passion, which was comedy and acting.

And he went on to win so many accolades.

He won a Grammy, a Golden Globe, Emmys, and just was doing so well as a comedian and with his own show for so many years.

People loved him.

- And what I picked up from that Kevin Cook interview that Flip Wilson was a complex guy, had some real struggles, and Kevin talks about that.

Kevin Cook talks about that from his book.

But also he was, Flip Wilson was a brilliant business person.

He was an entrepreneur, he owned his content.

The other side of, and he opened the door for so many others, particularly people of color, who were having a hard time, obviously, a hard time breaking into the entertainment industry.

But in this interview with Kevin, we talk also about some criticism that Flip Wilson got for not being, quote, "more active" in the Civil Rights movement.

But according to Kevin Cook, in many ways, Flip Wilson made a difference in the lives of many African-American entertainers, even though he wasn't political or actively involved in civil rights.

So for Jacqui and myself, you check out an interview that we did with Kevin Cook, the author of this book, all about just an important person we can't forget and must remember, Flip Wilson.

Funny guy, talented guy.

- We're now joined by Kevin Cook, the author of "Flip: The Inside Story of TV's First Black Superstar."

Kevin, first of all, thank you for joining us.

- It's good to be with you, Steve.

- It's important that we remember Flip Wilson for so many reasons.

You say the most significant would be?

- I think he paved the way for a new generation of comedy on television.

"Time Magazine" called him TV's first Black superstar.

Bill Cosby would've argued about that.

They had a rivalry at the time.

But Flip is not known nearly as well today as he was in the 1970s when he was seen by millions upon millions of people, and as he saw it, he was a trail breaker for people like Richard Pryor and George Carlin who came after him.

- Yeah, and "The Flip Wilson Show" ran from '71 to '74, incredibly popular series, and historic in so many ways.

Talk to us about Flip Wilson and Jersey City.

He was born Clerow Flip Wilson, Jr. in Jersey City.

- That's right.

- Talk about the Jersey City connection, very, very tough town to grow up in.

- He was born, grew up in the late '30s and early '40s, born in the Depression into dire poverty.

He was shuffled around among foster homes.

He was the subject of awful situations, handed back and forth.

Some of his foster parents were looking to cash checks and give his food to their own children.

Some others were very thoughtful and caring.

He kept running away, kept running away, because he wanted to get back to his father in Jersey City.

Flip's way out after World War II was one that many people took out of poverty.

He joined the Air Force, and that eventually became his way, believe it or not, into the world of comedy.

- You know, one of the things that's interesting about Flip Wilson and reading the book, and we've done so many, we just did something a half hour on Muhammad Ali, who was a very important figure for other reasons, but Ali was very involved in the civil rights movement.

Flip Wilson, coming up at about the same time, was not, and criticized by many in the African American community for not being more involved in civil rights.

Talk about that, please, Kevin.

- That's true, and among many people I spoke to, Franklyn Ajaye.

- Yeah.

- Who was a guest on the show, Lily Tomlin, who was often a guest in the show.

Lily Tomlin worked often with both Flip and with Richard Pryor.

Pryor was more of a revolutionary.

I think that Pryor called Flip names, and said that that Flip was serving the network in a way that wasn't sufficiently forceful.

Flip's response to that was, "I am now in households, millions of households where I'm the first Black person who was ever inside that household, and I just want to make myself welcome."

He did a great deal for a lot of great Black artists.

Aretha was on his show, the Jackson Five, with a young Michael Jackson on his show.

I think he did his part, and I think he felt that he did as well.

- Why do you think, Kevin, that Flip Wilson is not more well-known by folks for the contribution he made to the entertainment industry, why do you believe that?

- I think it's mostly because his form that he studied and really did master, the variety show, was dying out on television in the 1970s.

Carol Burnett had a hit show.

Many of your viewers may not even recognize the name Ed Sullivan.

When Flip was growing up and studying comedy, that was an enormous show.

That's the show that introduced the Beatles to America.

By the time Flip had the number two show on all of television, seen by enormous numbers of millions, tens, and millions of people all across the country, he was very influential, but the show, as it proceeded, as it began to lose some ratings in '73, '74, it was coming across as a little bit corny.

He studied his craft so effectively, he knew how many laughs per minute he needed to get, but it was coming across as not as edgy as things that Pryor was doing elsewhere, Pryor and Richard Carlin, both members of his staff, and I think he did pave the way for what many people would see as much edgier material later in the 1970s.

- Flip Wilson struggled on a lot of levels.

Talk about his struggles.

- He struggled with drugs, he struggled with relationships.

He was driven to succeed, and having succeeded brilliantly as a businessman, owning the rights to his program, which he demanded before he ever went on television.

- Talk about why that's so significant.

I mean, for him to have done that at that time as a Black entertainer, as a Black American citizen, African American citizen, I mean, explain to folks why that's extraordinary.

- It was a remarkable, brave choice.

At that time, the only people who owned the rights, which means how much money you're gonna make when syndication begins, were Lucille Ball and Desi Arnaz, the most popular show on television, "I Love Lucy," in its time.

Flip comes along, and the network wants him to host a variety show, and he was thrilled.

He had had a special that was very highly rated.

He was excited, this was the pinnacle for him, and yet this untrained person was a very sharp businessman, and he chose his moment.

He said, "That's fine, looking forward to the program.

I'm gonna work like crazy on it, but I will own the rights."

That's what made him a rich man, and it's what enabled him to stop hosting "The Flip Wilson Show" as its ratings began to decline and he felt its moment was passed.

- Kevin, everything I read in the book, everything I tried to understand about Flip Wilson is that when he withdrew from show business, he withdrew.

There are not a whole range of comebacks and needed to be seen by people.

I mean, he withdrew, talk about that.

- He did, he did a sitcom with the wonderful Gladys Knight, with whom I spoke, and interestingly enough, a sitcom called "Charlie & Company" that was brief and didn't succeed.

He did not like that experience because he didn't have creative control.

Their son was played by Jaleel White, another fine source of mine who went on to fame as Urkel.

After "Charlie & Company," that left a sour taste in Flip's mouth.

He was very successful as a live entertainer in Vegas, but at that point, he had succeeded.

He had enough money to support himself and his family.

He didn't need to do it anymore.

He became a hot air balloon pilot, he became a motorcyclist, traveled the country, and he enjoyed the latter part of his life.

Some of it he enjoyed illegally.

He had a fondness for quite a few chemicals, (Steve chuckling) but he did, and he did devote more time with his family.

You wouldn't necessarily want this person to be your father, but he provided for them by his lengths, he certainly did.

- He's under appreciated, isn't he, Kevin?

- I think he is, although a lot of comics do revere him and appreciate him, remember him.

I've told that Tracy Morgan has a painting in his house that features Flip and- - Is that right?

- Yeah, great titans.

I think that Flip's story needs to be told, and we're coming toward a time when I think we can look back pretty objectively and see that he was what "Time Magazine" called TV's first Black superstar.

- Got a minute left, what drew you to him?

Why did you choose to write this book?

- Well, I was fascinated by him.

I had seen him a great deal in syndication.

I had talked to other people like Whoopi Goldberg, who, like me, went to a parochial school, and was shocked to hear the nuns on the morning after "The Flip Wilson Show" saying, "The devil made me do it."

- That was his famous expression, the devil made me do it.

- That was one of them, yes, and what you see is what you get was another one.

It's really hard to overstate his popularity in that time, and that drew me to him.

I met his son Kevin, who has both positive and negative, many more positive memories, but it was a struggle to be the siblings who were children of Flip Wilson's, but I think as with America in general, the more time passes, the more fondly they remember him.

- Kevin Cook is the author of "Flip: The Inside Story of TV's First Black Superstar."

Kevin, thank you, we appreciate you joining us to help remember Flip Wilson, thank you.

- Thank you, Steve.

- I'm Steve Adubato.

Thank you so much for watching.

We'll see you next time.

- [Narrator] One-On-One with Steve Adubato is a production of the Caucus Educational Corporation.

Celebrating 30 years in public broadcasting.

Funding has been provided by PSEG Foundation.

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And by The Russell Berrie Foundation.

Promotional support provided by The New Jersey Business & Industry Association.

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