>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

>> Lou: THIS WEEK ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS, REMEMBERING BILL RICHARDSON.

A LONG TIME STATE HOUSE REPORTER AND TWO FORMER COLLEAGUES DIG INTO ACCOMPLISHMENTS AND CONTROVERSIES OF THE FORMER GOVERNOR TURNED INTERNATIONAL HOSTAGE NEGOTIATOR.

>> Riseley-White: THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS HAS BEEN A REAL WAKE-UP CALL FOR NEW MEXICO AND ACROSS THE WORLD IN TERMS OF CLIMATE CHANGE.

>> Lou: AND HOW CONTINUED DRYING CONDITIONS HAVE UPPED THE STAKES FOR THE DIRECTOR OF THE NEW MEXICO INTERSTATE STREAM COMMISSION.

NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS STARTS NOW.

THANKS FOR JOINING US THIS WEEK.

I AM SENIOR PRODUCER LOU DIVIZIO.

THIS FALL VOTERS IN SANTA FE WILL DECIDE WHETHER TO SLAP AN EXTRA 3% TAX ON HOMES VALUED OVER A MILLION DOLLARS.

IN ABOUT 30 MINUTES I SIT DOWN WITH NONPROFIT HOME BUILDER MIKE LOFTIN TO DISCUSS HOW THE NEW TAX REVENUE WOULD BE USED TO SLOW THE CITY'S AFFORDABLE HOUSING CRISIS.

LATER IN THE SHOW, WE HEAD TO DOWNTOWN SANTA FE WHERE UNIDENTIFIED SUSPECTS PARTIALLY TOPPLED A SANDSTONE OBELISK HONORING 19TH CENTURY FRONTIERSMAN KIT CARSON THAT MANY INDIGENOUS PEOPLE HAVE LONG VIEWED AS RACIST.

THIS WAS THE SECOND SUCH MONUMENT DESTROYED IN THE CAPITOL CITY SINCE 2020 WITH THE INCIDENT HAPPENING ON THE EVE OF FIESTA SANTA FE, BUT A MAJOR PORTION OF OUR SHOW TONIGHT WILL BE DEDICATED TO GOVERNOR BILL RICHARDSON.

AT THE BOTTOM OF THE HOUR, NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS CORRESPONDENT RUSSELL CONTRERAS ASKS A SPECIAL ROUNDTABLE HOW RICHARDSON'S WORK AS AN ELECTED AND APPOINTED OFFICIAL SHAPED PUBLIC PERCEPTION OF OUR STATE HERE AND BEYOND.

BUT WE BEGIN AS RUSSELL AND THE ROUNDTABLE TAKE A DEEP LOOK AT RICHARDSON'S TIME IN THE GOVERNOR'S MANSION BETWEEN 2003 AND 2011, A PERIOD SERVING AS THE NATION'S ONLY HISPANIC GOVERNOR.

>> Russell: THANKS LOU.

I AM NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS CORRESPONDENT RUSSELL CONTRERAS.

HERE TO PUT AS MUCH AS BILL RICHARDSON'S LEGACY INTO CONTEXT AS I CAN IN THIS LIMITED SPACE OF TIME.

JOINING ME TODAY AT THE TABLE IS MARTHA BURK, AUTHOR AND HOST OF THE PUBLIC PODCAST EQUAL TIME WITH MARTHA BURK.

ACROSS THE TABLE IS STEVE TERRELL, RETIRED REPORTER WITH THE SANTA FE NEW MEXICAN.

AND FINALLY, OF COURSE, WONDERFUL DIANE DENISH WHO SERVED EIGHT YEARS AS LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR UNDER BILL RICHARDSON.

GREAT TO SEE YOU ALL BACK.

WE BEGINS TODAY'S SHOW LOOKING BACK AT THE LIFE AND POLITICAL CAREER OF FORMER NEW MEXICO GOVERNOR BILL RICHARDSON, WHO DIED IN HIS SLEEP THIS PAST WEEKEND AT THE AGE OF 75.

RICHARDSON LEFT A DEEP FOOTPRINT IN POLITICS NOT JUST HERE IN NEW MEXICO BUT OTHER PLACES.

HE SPENT 14 YEARS REPRESENTING OUR STATE IN CONGRESS BEFORE BECOMING A U.N.

AMBASSADOR, ENERGY SECRETARY AND FINALLY TWO TERMS AS GOVERNOR.

IT WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE TO RECOUNT EVERY STATEMENT, PHRASE IN HIS LIFE AND CAREER BUT ONE THAT STANDS OUT CAME FROM NEW MEXICO CONGRESSMAN GABE VASQUEZ WHO CALLED RICHARDSON, QUOTE, ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL HISPANICS IN POLITICS THAT THIS NATION HAS SEEN.

WE'LL GET INTO HIS LONG LIST OF ACCOMPLISHMENTS AND SOME OF THE SCANDALS THAT FOLLOWED HIM BUT I WANT TO ASK ALL OF YOU, AS NEW MEXICANS LOOKING BACK AT HIS LEGACY, HOW DID RICHARDSON STAND OUT AS A LAWMAKER, AS A MEMBER OF THE HOUSE IN THE 1990'S AND AS GOVERNOR BETWEEN 2003 AND 2011?

START WITH YOU DIANE.

YOU WORKED WITH HIM CLOSELY.

WHAT DO YOU REMEMBER ABOUT HIM AS A GOVERNOR AND A POLITICIAN TRYING TO MAKE NEW MEXICO A BETTER PLACE.

>> Diane: YOU KNOW I THOUGHT HE TOOK A LOT OF RISK OF THINGS HE WANTED TO DO.

HE BROUGHT HOPE AND OPTIMISM THROUGH INITIATIVES TO NEW MEXICO.

HE IMPROVED THE LIVES OF WOMEN IN NEW MEXICO, BUT, HE IMPROVED IN HEALTHCARE.

HE TOOK INITIATIVES WAY BEFORE OBAMA CARE TO ENSURE KIDS ON THEIR POLICIES UNTIL THEY WERE 26.

WE PASSED THE PREGNANCY PREMIUM ASSISTANCE PROGRAM.

THINGS THAT LATER BECAME PART OF OBAMA CARE, SO HE WAS AHEAD OF HIS TIME ON SOME OF HIS INITIATIVES.

FOR ME THE SPACE PORT, NOTHING SAYS THAT LIKE THE SPACE PORT.

HE BROUGHT SUCH A VISION OF WHAT IT COULD BE IN THE FUTURE AND ACTUALLY WHAT IT IS GOING TO BECOME OVER TIME.

IT TAKES A LONG TIME FOR THESE INITIATIVES.

HE DID PROMISE US WE WOULD MAYBE HAVE A LAUNCH IN TWO YEARS AFTER WE FIRST ANNOUNCED IT.

IT TOOK A LITTLE LONGER THAN THAT BUT MEANWHILE IT HAS BEEN A WONDERFUL EDUCATIONAL OPPORTUNITY FOR KIDS FROM THAT PART OF THE STATE OR FROM KIDS ALL OVER NEW MEXICO AND FOR SCIENTISTS.

SO, TAKING THOSE RISKS, HE WANTED THEM TO PAY OFF AND HE WORKED HARD TO GET THOSE THINGS DONE.

HE KNEW HOW TO NEGOTIATE WITH THE LEGISLATURE.

HE KNEW HOW TO, FOR INSTANCE, TAKE THE FOOD TAX OFF WITH ONE VOTE MARGIN IN THE HOUSE.

HE WAS JUST -- HE REALLY WAS VERY INTUITIVE ABOUT NOT ONLY HIS OWN -- HOW TO FORWARD HIS OWN INTERESTS BUT WHAT WERE THEIR INTERESTS IN DOING THESE BIG THINGS.

>> Russell: YOU MENTIONED THE SPACE PORT BUT HE ALSO HAD THE RAIL RUNNER, THERE WAS ALSO ABOLISHING THE DEATH SENTENCE, ESTABLISHING A FOUNDATION FOR THE FILM INDUSTRY AND CREATING THE NATION'S FIRST PAY EQUITY INITIATIVE.

IT GOES ON AND ON.

WHAT DO YOU REMEMBER ABOUT THAT, THE RAIL RUNNER AND THAT ONE WAS SO GROUNDBREAKING AT THE TIME.

WE KIND OF LAUGH AT IT NOW BUT WE DIDN'T HAVE THIS.

WHAT DO YOU REMEMBER ABOUT THAT?

>> Diane: WHAT I REMEMBER IS THERE WERE A LOT OF NEGOTIATIONS, OF COURSE, WITH THE RAILROAD COMPANIES TO TRY TO -- HE ALWAYS WANTED IT TO GO ALL THE WAY TO LAS CRUCES SO THAT PEOPLE COULD TRAVEL ACROSS THE STATE.

BUT WHAT I REMEMBER ABOUT IT WAS THAT HE HAD A WOMAN IN THE STATE TRANSPORTATION DEPARTMENT, RHONDA FAUGHT, AND I REMEMBER THERE WERE MANY NEGOTIATIONS WITH HIGHWAY PEOPLE AND SO HE DIDN'T HAVE TO JUST GET IT DONE IN THE LEGISLATURE.

HE HAD TO GET IT DONE THROUGH THE ADMINISTRATIVE PROCESSES, TOO, AND ALL THE RIGHT-OF-WAYS AND THE THINGS THAT HAPPENED.

YOU KNOW THE FILM INDUSTRY, I WANTED TO SAY, THAT HAD BEEN LANGUISHING SINCE 1968 WHEN DAVE CARGO WAS GOVERNOR.

THAT WAS THE FIRST FILM COMMISSION.

AND BILL HAD BEEN, YOU KNOW, PERCOLATING ABOUT THAT FOR A LONG TIME AND THEN HE HIRED REALLY GOOD PEOPLE AROUND IT THAT KNEW THE SUBJECT MATTER.

I THINK THAT IS ONE OF THE KEYS FOR BILL RICHARDSON WAS HE BROUGHT -- HE WASN'T AFRAID OF STAR POWER WHERE PEOPLE KNEW MORE THEN HE DID AND THE DEPUTY U.N.

AMBASSADOR, NANCY SODERBERG TOLD ME HE KNEW WHAT HE DIDN'T KNOW.

>> Russell: STEVE, A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE GREAT IDEAS, PREVIOUS GOVERNORS, BUT IT WAS RICHARDSON'S STYLE THAT WAS ABLE TO GET THING DONE.

WHAT CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT A STYLE TO GET STUFF LIKE THE RAIL RUNNER FIXED AND ALSO REFORMING THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION?

>> Steve: HIS STYLE -- WELL, FIRST OF ALL, THE STYLE A LOT OF PEOPLE CRITICIZED HIM FOR BEING LIKE A RUMPLED -- HE WAS AN EVERY MAN IN HIS APPEARANCE, BIG GUY, HEAVY SET BUT I THINK IT WAS A COMBINATION OF SWEET TALK AND ARM TWISTING.

HE WORKED BEHIND THE SCENES, HE WASN'T AFRAID TO TWIST ARMS BUT HE TRIED TO WORK WITH PEOPLE.

HE TRIED TO WORK WITH REPUBLICANS, SUCCESSFULLY, OFTEN, AND SO HIS STYLE IT WAS BIPARTISAN IN A LOT OF WAYS BUT YOU ALWAYS KNEW WHO WAS THE BOSS.

SO THAT IS WHAT I REMEMBER ABOUT HIM AND I THINK THAT IS WHY HE WAS SUCCESSFUL IN SO MANY THINGS.

>> Russell: MARTHA, YOU WERE AN UNOFFICIAL CABINET MEMBER UNDER RICHARDSON, FANCY TITLE, SENIOR POLICY ADVISOR FOR WOMEN'S ISSUES.

HE WAS KIND OF A NEST OF PARADOXES.

HE WAS PRO BUSINESS.

HE WAS PRO CHOICE, CATHOLIC, HE CUT TAXES.

HE BELIEVED IN PUBLIC WORKS.

HOW DO YOU NAVIGATE THESE CONTRADICTIONS WHEN PUSHING THESE ISSUES THAT YOU THOUGHT DESERVED ATTENTION.

WE HAVE TO REMEMBER HE WAS ALSO A CLINTON CABINET MEMBER WHO CAME FROM THAT ETHOS AND HE HAD SOME CRITICISM HOW HE VIEWED WOMEN.

BUT HOW DID YOU NEGOTIATE THAT?

>> Martha: WELL, IT WAS, SHALL WE SAY, A VERY FORMAL RELATIONSHIP I HAD WITH HIM.

WE WERE COLLEAGUES.

WE WEREN'T TOGETHER -- I WAS FIRST HIRED BY HIM FOR THE CAMPAIGN, THE PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN, WHICH, AS WE KNOW, DID NOT LAST VERY LONG.

BUT, WE WENT TO NEW HAMPSHIRE AND IOWA AND HE WANTED, BECAUSE I HAD JUST COME FROM WASHINGTON AND I HAD A LOT OF NATIONAL PRESS EXPERIENCE AND I ALSO KNEW IN-DEPTH WHAT WENT ON IN CAPITOL HILL, WHAT BILLS WERE IS THERE, ALL THAT.

BECAUSE I HAD A FAIRLY, I DON'T KNOW, PRESENCE IN THE MEDIA WHEN I WAS THERE, I THINK HE KNEW ALL OF THAT AND HE THOUGHT HE COULD BENEFIT FROM MY KNOWLEDGE AND I HOPE HE DID.

HE CERTAINLY LISTENED TO WHAT I TOLD HIM IN TERMS OF WHAT I THINK WAS IMPORTANT FOR THE PRESIDENTIAL DEBATES AND THEN WE WILL GET LATER INTO WHAT I DID FOR HIM AFTER HE DROPPED OUT OF THAT.

BUT I FOUND HIM TO BE EXTREMELY RECEPTIVE TO ME AND TO THE IDEAS HE HIRED ME TO EDUCATE HIM FURTHER ON.

IT WASN'T THAT HE DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT WHAT NEEDED TO BE DONE BUT HE WANTED MORE DETAIL.

HE WAS ALWAYS -- HE WANTED TO KNOW SORT OF WHAT WAS UNDER THE RADAR ON THINGS BECAUSE HE DIDN'T LIKE TO BE SURPRISED.

>> Russell: AS WE ALL KNOW, RICHARDSON'S SECOND TERM WAS IN SOME WAYS INVOLVED WITH A SERIES OF SCANDALS.

FEDERAL GRANT JURY INVESTIGATION INTO ALLEGED PAY TO PLAY AND CAMPAIGN FINANCE VIOLATIONS.

NO CHARGES EVER CAME BUT THE CONTROVERSIES WERE ENOUGH TO CLOSE THE DOOR ON A POTENTIAL CABINET SEAT IN THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION.

HOW DID THESE BATTLES SHAPE THE WAY NEW MEXICANS FELT ABOUT BILL RICHARDSON THEN AND NOW?

REMEMBER THIS, PRESIDENT OBAMA, FUTURE PRESIDENT OBAMA WAS CALLING HIM ALL THE TIME, SO WAS HILLARY CLINTON SAYING WHAT DO YOU NEED.

AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN HE WAS GOVERNOR, HE WAS OFF THE STAGE.

WHAT HAPPENED?

>> Steve: AFTER HE TOOK HIMSELF OUT OF CONSIDERATION FOR THE CABINET HE BECAME POLITICAL POISON.

I THINK DIANE KNOWS THIS MORE THAN ANY OF US.

I THINK THAT COST YOU YOUR GOVERNOR'S RACE BACK IN 2010.

SO, YES, I WOULD ALMOST CALL THAT HIS EXILE PERIOD.

AFTER HE LEFT THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE HE STARTED THE RICHARDSON CENTER FOR -- WHAT IS THE FORMAL NAME -- BASICALLY HELPING HOSTAGES INTERNATIONALLY, AND HE KEPT THAT UP, BUT, YEAH, NOBODY WAS ASKING FOR RICHARDSON'S ENDORSEMENT OR ANYTHING WHEN THEY WERE RUNNING FOR OFFICE AFTER THESE SCANDALS, ESPECIALLY AFTER THE CABINET POSITION WENT KABLOOEY.

>> Russell: LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR I ALWAYS THOUGHT THAT YOU WERE RUNNING FOR THE SEAT YOU WERE TRYING TO FOLLOW GOVERNOR RICHARDSON, ADVOCATING FOR SOME OF THE POLICIES, BUT DID YOU FEEL THAT WHEN SUSANA MARTINEZ WAS RUNNING AGAINST YOU, SHE KEPT THROWING HIS NAME.

SHE VERY SELDOM SAID YOUR NAME BECAUSE SHE WOULD HAVE TO DEBATE THE ISSUES WHICH POLLS SHOW THEY BACKED YOU.

DO YOU FEEL THAT HURT YOU IN YOUR RACE AND COULD HE HAVE DONE ANYTHING TO HELP YOU.

>> Diane: WE HAD MANY CONVERSATIONS DURING BY RACE AND HIS ADVICE TO ME WAS TO STAY AWAY FROM HIM.

BECAUSE HE WAS A POLITICAL REALIST AND HE KNEW THAT ASSOCIATING MYSELF -- BUT I TRIED NOT TO RUN AWAY FROM THINGS THAT I THOUGHT WERE SUCCESSFUL THINGS WE DID DURING THE CAMPAIGN, BUT HE WAS A VERY GOOD ADVISOR TO ME DURING THAT TIME.

AND WAS VERY CAREFUL NOT TO PROMOTE ME BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE USED AGAINST ME.

SO, YOU KNOW, AT THE END OF THE DAY, WE HAD A LOT OF FUN AND SOME SAD MOMENTS WHEN HE PULLED HIS NAME OUT, YOU KNOW.

I WAS IN WASHINGTON WHEN THAT HAPPENED AND HE CALLED ME -- I WAS SHOPPING FOR SOME SHOES TO GO TO A CONFERENCE WITH DEMOCRATIC GOVERNORS AND HE, YOU KNOW, HE SAID, IT IS A BAD DAY FOR ME AND I THINK HE FELT REALLY BAD ABOUT THAT, BUT I DO THINK THAT WHEN YOU ASKED THE QUESTION ABOUT HOW DID IT FORM PEOPLES' OPINION, IN THE SHORT TERM I THINK THAT IT AFFECTED HIM VERY NEGATIVELY.

IN THE LONG-TERM I THINK BILL RICHARDSON WILL HAVE A HUGE LEGACY OF IMPACT ON NEW MEXICO AND HOW HE REALLY AFFECTED PEOPLES' LIVES AND CHANGED SOME PEOPLES' LIVES.

>> Russell: MARTHA, WITH ALL THE UP'S AND DOWN'S, BRIEFLY, WHAT IS THE BALANCE IN RICHARDSON'S LEGACY.

HOW DO WE LOOK AT IT?

>> Martha: WELL, OF COURSE, I LOOK AT IT THROUGH A GENDER LENS AND HE DID REALLY PROGRESSIVE WORK IN TERMS OF PAY EQUITY FOR WOMEN.

HE DIDN'T MIND TAKING ADVICE IF HE DIDN'T KNOW SOMETHING, AS I SAID, HE WOULD ASK AND HE WANTED TO UNDERSTAND IT IN DEPTH.

BUT, THEN, HE WOULD PRETTY MUCH -- HE KNEW THE PROFESSIONALS, KNEW WHAT THEY WERE DOING FOR THE MOST PART.

HE WOULD STAY HANDS OFF BUT HE ALWAYS WANTED TO BE IN THE LOOP.

AND I THINK THAT WAS ONE OF HIS STRENGTHS.

HE KNEW WHERE TO GO FOR THE STUFF THAT HE NEEDED TO KNOW MORE ABOUT AND HE WASN'T ASHAMED TO SAY, I NEED TO KNOW MORE ABOUT THIS SO I CAN BE MORE EFFECTIVE IN GETTING IT DONE.

>> Russell: THANKS TO OUR SPECIAL PANEL FOR THIS DISCUSSION.

WHEN WE COME BACK AGAIN IN 30 MINUTES TO DISCUSS HOW RICHARDSON SHAPED PERCEPTIONS OF NEW MEXICO ON THE NATIONAL AND INTERNATIONAL STAGES.

>> Loftin: THE BROADER BASED COMMUNITY REALIZES WE DON'T HAVE HOUSING OUR WORKFORCE CAN FORWARD.

THEY ARE STRUGGLING JUST TO KEEP THEIR DOORS OPEN.

HEALTHCARE HAS ALL THESE VACANCIES, PRIVATE BUSINESSES HAVE ALL THESE VACANCIES.

THERE ARE RESTAURANTS THAT ARE CLOSING DOWN TWO TO THREE DAYS A WEEK BECAUSE THEY CAN'T GET ENOUGH OF A WORKFORCE.

I THINK PEOPLE REALIZE WE REALLY HAVE TO MAKE IT POSSIBLE FOR THE WORKFORCE TO LIVE THERE OR IT IS GOING TO AFFECT EVERYBODY NEGATIVELY.

I THINK THERE IS A RECOGNITION WE REALLY NEED TO DO SOMETHING AND WE NEED TO DO IT NOW.

>> Lou: MY INTERVIEW ON THE MANSION TAX SANTA FE VOTERS WILL CONSIDER IN NOVEMBER IS COMING UP IN ABOUT 15 MINUTES.

NEW MEXICO'S WATER CHALLENGES ARE VAST, ESPECIALLY AS THE PLANET CONTINUES TO WARM.

IN ARID PLACES LIKE NEW MEXICO THAT WARMING COMES WITH INCREASED DRYING.

AND WITH A LIMITED AMOUNT OF WATER TO SHARE AMONG STATES, CITIES, FARMERS AND, OF COURSE, ECOSYSTEMS, WATER PLANNING IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN EVER.

AT THE END OF AUGUST, OUR LAND LAURA PASKUS SPOKE WITH NEW MEXICO INTERSTATE STREAM COMMISSION DIRECTOR, HANNAH RISELEY-WHITE ABOUT THE STATE'S CHALLENGES AND HOW PEOPLE CAN GET INVOLVED IN WATER PLANNING.

>> Laura: HANNAH RISELEY-WHITE, WELCOME.

>> Riseley-White: THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> Laura: YOU ARE THE DIRECTOR OF THE NEW MEXICO INTERSTATE STREAMS COMMISSION.

WHAT ROLE DOES THE COMMISSION PLAY AND WHY DOES NEW MEXICO NEED ONE?

>> Riseley-White: SURE, THE NEW MEXICO INTERSTATE STREAM COMMISSION US TASKED BY STATUTE WITH SUPPORTING NEW MEXICO'S COMPLIANCE WITH INTERSTATE COMPACTS PRIMARILY.

SO THOSE ARE THE AGREEMENTS BETWEEN NEW MEXICO AND OUR NEIGHBORING STATES ABOUT HOW WATER IS SHARED.

WE ALSO PARTICIPATE IN A LOT OF EFFORTS TO SUPPORT COMPLIANCE WITH FEDERAL ENVIRONMENTAL REGULATIONS LIKE THE ENDANGERED SPECIES ACT, AND, VERY IMPORTANTLY, AND SOMETHING I AM EXCITED TO TALK WITH YOU ABOUT TODAY AS WELL IS WE SUPPORT WATER PLANNING BOTH STATE-WIDE PLANNING AND REGIONAL PLANNING ACROSS NEW MEXICO.

>> Laura: SO, IN THE TIME THAT I HAVE BEEN COVERING THE INTERSTATE STREAM COMMISSION, I HAVE REALLY SEEN A SHIFT IN THE MEMBERSHIP SITTING AT THE TABLE EVERY MONTH AND IN MEETINGS TO A MORE DIVERSE GROUP.

I FEEL LIKE WHEN I WAS FIRST COVERING THE COMMISSION IT TENDED TO BE MOSTLY OLDER WHITE MEN WHO WERE CONNECTED WITH IRRIGATION DISTRICTS.

THAT SEEMS TO HAVE CHANGED.

HOW DOES A MORE DIVERSE COMMISSION BENEFIT THE WHOLE STATE?

>> Riseley-White: I WOULD SAY THAT THE CHALLENGES WE FACE IN NEW MEXICO RELATED TO WATER ARE VERY SIGNIFICANT ESPECIALLY IN THE FACE OF CLIMATE CHANGE AND INCREASING ARIDIFICATION.

IN ORDER TO CRAFT SOLUTIONS TO THOSE PROBLEMS, WE NEED ALL THE VOICES AT THE TABLE.

AND SO, CLEARLY, YOU KNOW, AG IS AN INTEGRAL PART OF OUR VALUES AND CULTURE IN NEW MEXICO.

BUT WE NEED ACADEMICS, WE NEED MUNICIPAL USERS, WE NEED ENVIRONMENTAL INTERESTS AND WE NEED EVERYONE AT THE TABLE IN ORDER TO BE SUCCESSFUL IN THE CHALLENGES WE ARE FACING.

>> Laura: WE SEE THOSE CHALLENGES.

THE RIO GRANDE IS DROPPING RIGHT NOW.

WE HAD A REALLY VARIED YEAR IN TERMS OF WATER, WENT FROM FLOODS TO REALLY LOW CONDITIONS.

I KNOW THIS IS A VAST QUESTION AND ONE YOU THINK ABOUT ALL THE TIME BUT WHAT ARE THE BIG CHALLENGES IN TERMS OF SUPPLY AND DEMAND IN NEW MEXICO?

>> Riseley-White: I THINK THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS HAVE BEEN A REAL WAKE-UP CALL FOR US IN NEW MEXICO AND ACROSS THE WORLD IN TERMS OF CLIMATE CHANGE.

WE SAW UNPRECEDENTED FOREST FIRES THIS LAST YEAR.

THIS YEAR WE HAD A REALLY WET WINTER AND SPRING AND NOW, AS YOU JUST SAID, OUR RIVERS ARE DRYING.

SO, YOU KNOW, WE WORKED VERY CLOSELY WITH THE NEW MEXICO BUREAU OF GEOLOGY AND MINERAL RESOURCES A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO TO COMPILE ALL OF THE LATEST SCIENCE AROUND CLIMATE CHANGE IMPACTS TO NEW MEXICO.

THAT REPORT CAN BE FOUND ONLINE.

AND THE BIG TAKEAWAY FROM THAT IS WE ARE LOOKING AT POTENTIALLY A 25% DECREASE IN STREAM FLOW AND RECHARGE TO OUR AQUIFERS BY 2070.

THAT MEANS IT IS MORE CRITICAL THAN EVER FOR US TO WORK TOGETHER TO GET AHEAD OF THOSE CHALLENGES RATHER THAN LAND IN CONFLICTS AND COSTLY LITIGATION BUT FIGURE OUT WHAT THAT INCREASING SCARCITY MEANS TO ALL NEW MEXICANS.

WATER TOUCHES EVERYTHING WE DO IN NEW MEXICO.

AND SO IT IS BOTH A SCARY MOMENT BUT IT IS ALSO A REAL OPPORTUNITY.

WE HAVE A GOVERNOR WHO FULLY SUPPORTS CLIMATE AND SCIENCE-BASED POLICY.

WE HAVE A LEGISLATURE WITH REAL COMMITMENT AND MOTIVATION TO SOLVE AND FUND SOLUTIONS.

AND THEN WE HAVE THE WATER POLICY INFRASTRUCTURE TASKFORCE WHICH THE STATE ENGINEER CONVENED LAST YEAR.

THEY PRODUCE A COMPREHENSIVE SET OF RECOMMENDATIONS RELATED TO WATER AND WE HAVE UNPRECEDENTED STATE AND FEDERAL FUNDING.

SO, IT FEELS LIKE THIS MAGIC MOMENT THAT WE MAY BE ABLE TO SEIZE UPON TO REALLY LAY A PATH FOR NEW MEXICO TO CONFRONT THOSE CHALLENGES.

>> Laura: IN TERMS OF WATER PLANNING, CAN YOU TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT WATER PLANNING THE STATE IS UNDERTAKING RIGHT NOW.

AND HOW IT IS DIFFERENT FROM, OR IS IT DIFFERENT FROM EFFORTS IN THE PAST?

>> Riseley-White: ABSOLUTELY, I THINK GIVEN WHAT I JUST SAID A MINUTE AGO, THIS ISN'T SOMETHING JUST FOR DECISION MAKERS TO PARTICIPATE IN.

THIS IS A MOMENT FOR EVERYONE WHO DRINKS WATER IN NEW MEXICO TO COME TO THE TABLE TO SUPPORT CRAFTING THESE SOLUTIONS.

I AM PARTICULARLY EXCITED TODAY TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT THE WATER SECURITY PLANNING ACT WHICH WAS PASSED UNANIMOUSLY IN THIS LEGISLATIVE SESSION.

IT WAS INSTIGATED, IN PART, BY A RECOMMENDATION FROM THE WATER POLICY AND INFRASTRUCTURE TASKFORCE THAT I MENTIONED EARLIER AND IT IS AN ENTIRE REWRITE OF THE REGIONAL WATER PLANNING STATUTE FOR NEW MEXICO.

THE ORIGINAL STATUTE WAS FROM THE MID 1980'S AND LARGELY MET ITS PURPOSE.

AND WHAT THIS NEW WATER SECURITY PLANNING ACT TASKS THE INTERSTATE STREAM COMMISSION WITH DOING IS ESSENTIALLY TOTALLY RE-ENVISIONING, OVER THE NEXT TWO YEARS, WHAT REGIONAL WATER PLANNING WILL LOOK LIKE IN NEW MEXICO, BOTH RE-DELINEATING THE REGIONS THEMSELVES BUT REDEFINING THE REQUIREMENTS FOR THE COMPOSITION OF THE PLANNING ENTITIES, REALLY WORKING LINK THE PLANNING EFFORT TO FUNDING FOR IMPLEMENTATION, TO MAKE THAT CONNECTION, AND ENSURE THAT IT IS ALL BASED IN SCIENCE.

SO, EVERYONE SHOULD BE HEARING FROM US IN THE COMING MONTHS ABOUT OPPORTUNITIES TO ENGAGE IN WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE.

I AM REALLY EXCITED ABOUT IT AND OPTIMISTIC THAT WORK CAN REALLY SUPPORT COMMUNITIES ACROSS THE STATE IN PLANNING FOR THE CHANGES AHEAD AND ENSURING THAT WE HAVE POLICIES AND PROGRAMS IN PLACE TO PROTECT OR INTERESTS AND OUR VALUES THROUGHOUT THE STATE.

>> Laura: I FEEL LIKE I KNOW SOME STUFF ABOUT WATER AND HOW CLIMATE AND WATER WORK IN NEW MEXICO BUT EVEN SOMEONE LIKE ME WHO, LIKE I FEEL PRETTY TAPPED IN, LIKE I HAVE NO IDEA WHERE I FIT INTO WATER PLANNING OR HOW MY VOICE AND PERSPECTIVE COULD BE HEARD.

SO I FEEL LIKE IF I DON'T KNOW THAT, LOTS OF OTHER PEOPLE DON'T, SO, CAN YOU GIVE OUR AUDIENCE SOME ADVICE ON HOW THEY ENGAGE AND ALSO HOW THEY FEEL LIKE THEY ARE BEING HEARD.

>> Riseley-White: I THINK THERE IS TWO COMPONENTS, CLEARLY.

THERE IS WHAT YOU DO HAVE CONTROL OVER IN YOUR HOME, RIGHT.

HOW YOU USE WATER AND THINKING ABOUT CONSERVATION.

AND I SHOULD SAY, YOU KNOW, A CRITICAL PART OF THE SOLUTION GIVEN THE INCREASING SCARCITY THAT I MENTIONED IS GOING TO BE CONSERVATION.

WE ARE GOING TO NEED ALL KINDS OF INNOVATIVE SOLUTIONS, IDENTIFYING OTHER SOURCES, BRACKISH WATER, ET CETERA, BUT WE ALSO ARE JUST GOING TO NEED TO CONSUME LESS.

SO THERE IS WHAT YOU DO IN YOUR HOME BUT THEN THERE IS ALSO, AS YOU KIND OF ALLUDED TO, THE BIGGER PICTURE POLICY AROUND HOW WATER IS MANAGED MORE BROADLY IN NEW MEXICO AND I THINK THERE IS QUITE A NUMBER OF RESOURCES FOR PEOPLE TO LEARN MORE INCLUDING YOU DO EXCELLENT REPORTING, SO THANK YOU FOR YOUR MANY YEARS OF COVERING WATER.

WE ARE REALLY LOOKING -- OUR PLANNING GROUP IS LOOKING TO BECOME SORT OF A HUB FOR INFORMATION WHERE PEOPLE COULD COME TO OUR WEBSITE, FIND OUT MORE INFORMATION ABOUT HOW TO ENGAGE IN REGIONAL PLANNING BUT ALSO SPECIFIC POLICY DECISION POINTS OR OPPORTUNITIES FOR INNOVATION AND HAVING SORT OF WHITE PAPERS AND AN ABILITY TO CONNECT PEOPLE TO INFORMATION TO HELP SOLVE EXACTLY THE PROBLEM THAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

WHAT DOES AN AVERAGE PERSON DO TO HELP INFLUENCE POLICY?

BUT IT WOULD ALSO SAY AGAIN THAT WATER POLICING AND THE STRUCTURED TASKFORCE HAD THIS VERY COMPLETE REPORT THAT CAN BE FUND AT NMWATER.ORG.

THAT INCLUDES 17 RECOMMENDATIONS WITH A TOTAL OF 106 STRATEGIES.

IT IS WAY MORE THAN COULD HAPPEN IMMEDIATELY BUT THERE IS LOTS THAT PEOPLE COULD WORK TO ADVANCE IN THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS AND WE ARE LOOKING AT SOMETHING THAT WILL BE PHASED OVER THE NEXT TWO OR THREE YEARS OR MORE TO GET THOSE POLICIES IN PLACE AND CERTAINLY LOOKING FOR SUPPORT ON THOSE AS WELL.

>> Laura: YOU KIND OF MENTIONED VARIOUS OBLIGATIONS THAT THE INTERSTATE STREAM COMMISSION HAS.

I WANTED TO TALK JUST A LITTLE BIT ABOUT RIVERS AND RIVERS THAT GO THROUGH MULTIPLE STATES.

I THINK OFTENTIMES I HEAR IT A LOT IN FEEDBACK ON MY REPORTING PEOPLE SEE THE RIO GRANDE DROPPING OR THEY SEE WATER GOING PAST ALBUQUERQUE AND THEY SAY, WE NEED TO STOP GIVING WATER TO TEXAS.

WHY CAN'T WE STOP GIVING WATER TO TEXAS?

>> Riseley-White: WELL, WE ALSO GET A LOT OF THAT WATER FROM COLORADO.

SO, YOU KNOW, COLORADO COULD SAY, WELL, LET'S NOT SEND ANY WATER DOWN TO NEW MEXICO.

I THINK GIVEN INCREASING SCARCITY, THOSE AGREEMENTS BETWEEN STATES BECOME EVEN MORE IMPORTANT AND OUR COMPLIANCE WITH THEM IS JUST BEING A GOOD NEIGHBOR, RIGHT.

SO I THINK THAT EVEN THOUGH IT IS HARD OFTEN FOR PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND, WE ARE PART OF A BROADER SYSTEM, BOTH IN TERMS OF SURFACE WATER AND SHARED AQUIFERS, RIGHT THAT NEED TO BE MANAGED COLLECTIVELY AND THOUGHTFULLY WITH ALL OF OUR PARTNERS ACROSS OUR STATE BOUNDARIES.

>> Laura: THEN, IN TERMS OF THE INTERSTATE STREAM COMMISSION HAS OBLIGATIONS FOR THE STATE FOR INTERSTATE COMPACTS.

WHAT ABOUT OBLIGATIONS TO RIVERS THEMSELVES AND THE ECOSYSTEMS THEY SUPPORT?

>> Riseley-White: ONE THING I HAVE BEEN EXCITED ABOUT IN THE LAST FEW YEARS IS SEEING BLOSSOMING PARTNERSHIPS ACROSS THE NGO COMMUNITY AND GOVERNMENT COMMUNITY AND ACADEMIC COMMUNITY.

SO, I SPOKE TO THIS EARLIER.

I DON'T THINK WE CAN SOLVE THESE PROBLEMS ALONE.

WE WILL HAVE TO BE SUPER CREATIVE IN BRINGING ALL THE PARTNERS TO THE TABLE.

THERE IS A ROBUST GROUP OF NGO'S IN NEW MEXICO WORKING TO PROTECT STREAM FLOW FOR THE ENVIRONMENT.

AND AS WE, YOU KNOW, SEE INCREASING RISE IN TEMPERATURES AND SCARCITY THAT I MENTIONED EARLIER, IT ALSO MEANS LESS WATER FOR OUR NATURAL ECOSYSTEM.

SO WE HAVE SOME REAL DECISION POINTS TO MAKE AS WE FACE THAT INCREASING SCARCITY ABOUT WHAT WE VALUE.

AND WHAT THAT MEANS ABOUT HOW WE ARE PROTECTING FLOWS FOR HABITAT.

AND THERE IS AN AMAZING GROUP OF FOLKS WORKING ON THAT RIGHT NOW IN NEW MEXICO.

>> Laura: DO YOU THINK THAT NEW MEXICO COULD EVER BE ONE OF THE STATES THAT RECOGNIZES THAT RIVERS HAVE RIGHTS TO THEIR OWN WATERS OR ARE PROTECTED LIKE THAT?

>> Riseley-White: ABSOLUTELY.

THE OFFICE OF THE STATE ENGINEER CURRENTLY IS PERMITTING IN STREAM FLOW AS A PERMITTED USE.

THERE IS A NUMBER OF THOSE APPLICATIONS OUT THERE.

INTERSTATE STREAM COMMISSION IS ALSO TASKED BY STATUTE WITH ADMINISTERING WHAT IS CALLED THE STRATEGIC WATER RESERVE.

THAT'S BEEN AROUND FOR A COUPLE OF DECADES NOW.

WITH DUAL PURPOSES OF PROTECTING STREAM FLOW, EXACTLY LIKE YOU'RE SAYING FOR EITHER COMPACT DELIVERIES OR SPECIES PURPOSES, AND THOSE SPECIES PURPOSES COULD EITHER BE LISTED SPECIES OR ECOSYSTEMS THAT HAVE THE POTENTIAL TO HAVE LISTED SPECIES IN THEM.

IT IS A VERY POWERFUL AND YET I THINK UNDERUTILIZED TOOL FOR NEW MEXICO.

WE HAVEN'T HAD CONSISTENT FUNDING FOR IT OVER TIME.

THIS LEGISLATIVE SESSION WE ALSO GOT A BIG CHUNK OF MONEY WHICH WE ARE PLEASED WITH.

THAT RESERVE IS BECOMING INCREDIBLY VALUE IN STREAM SYSTEMS ACROSS NEW MEXICO INCLUDING MOST RECENTLY ON THE SAN JUAN.

WE PARTICIPATED IN A VERY INNOVATIVE PARTNERSHIP SOLUTION ON THE SAN JUAN WITH THE NATURE CONSERVANCY AND THE JICARILLA APACHE NATION FOR A LARGE STRATEGIC WATER RESERVE LEASE THERE.

AND WE ARE HOPING TO LEARN FROM THAT AND REPLICATE THAT ELSEWHERE IN ORDER TO PROTECT STREAM FLOW.

>> Laura: THESE ARE CHALLENGING AND SCARY TIMES WHEN IT COMES TO LOTS OF THINGS, FIRE, WATER.

ARE YOU, HOPEFUL IS NOT THE WORD I WENT TO USE, BUT WHAT DO YOU HAVE HOPE OR OPTIMISM FOR NEW MEXICO AND OUR WATER CHALLENGES?

>> Riseley-White: I THINK HUMANS ARE INCREDIBLY CREATIVE AND RESOURCEFUL IF WE COULD GET TO TOGETHER TO FIND SOLUTIONS AND I DO FEEL LIKE THERE IS THIS INCREDIBLE OPPORTUNITY RIGHT IN THIS MOMENT OF TIME WITHIN THE NEXT COUPLE OF YEARS, ESPECIALLY WITH THE FEDERAL FUNDING AVAILABLE AND STATE FUNDING, FOR US TO IMPLEMENT SOME REALLY LASTING SOLUTIONS, NOT ONLY FOR THE NEXT COUPLE OF YEARS, BUT FOR DECADES TO COME.

SO I AM ACTUALLY REALLY EXCITED TO BE IN MY ROLE AT THE INTERSTATE STREAM COMMISSION, REALLY APPRECIATIVE OF THE FULL SLATE OF PARTNERS INCLUDING AMAZING STATE AGENCY PARTNERS.

AND SO I AM, EVEN THOUGH IT IS A DAUNTING AND OVERWHELMING TASK, I AM VERY OPTIMISTIC ABOUT WHAT WE CAN ACHIEVE TOGETHER IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF YEARS.

>> Laura: DIRECTOR RISELEY-WHITE, THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE TODAY.

>> Riseley-White: THANK YOU SO MUCH.

REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

>> Diane: WHEN I SAW HIM IN NORTHERN NEW MEXICO AND SOUTHERN NEW MEXICO IN LITTLE POCKET COMMUNITIES, BILL RICHARDSON ALWAYS, YOU KNOW, HE KNEW WHEN HE COULD SPEAK SPANISH AND FRANKLY A LOT OF PEOPLE WEREN'T SO AWARE OF HIS BACKGROUND.

THEY DIDN'T PAY MUCH ATTENTION TO THE CARPETBAGGER, THE POLITICAL WORDS, THAT WERE USED MANY TIMES IN THE ARENA BUT HAVING SPOKEN TO MANY PEOPLE THIS WEEK SINCE HIS DEATH, EVERYBODY HAS A STORY ABOUT BILL RICHARDSON.

AND THAT TELLS YOU SOMETHING ABOUT THE KIND OF RETAIL POLITICAL GUY HE WAS.

>> Lou: WE'LL HEAR FROM RUSSELL CONTRERAS AND OUR SPECIAL PANEL REMEMBERING GOVERNOR BILL RICHARDSON IN ABOUT 15 MINUTES.

I ALSO WANT TO THANK LAURA PASKUS FOR HER INTERVIEW WITH THE DIRECTOR OF THE INTERSTATE STREAM COMMISSION.

TO LEARN MORE ABOUT WATER PLANNING VISIT THE STATES WEBSITE, ENGAGENMWATER.ORG.

NOW TO A BALLOT PROPOSAL SANTA FE VOTERS WILL CONSIDER IN NOVEMBER.

IF PASSED, THE SO-CALLED MANSION TAX WOULD PLACE A 3% EXCISE TAX ON THE PURCHASE OF NEW HOMES VALUED AT ONE-MILLION DOLLARS OR MORE.

IT WOULD ONLY APPLY TO EACH DOLLAR OVER A MILLION AND THE REVENUE WOULD GO DIRECTLY INTO THE CITY'S HOUSING TRUST FUND.

SANTA FE CITY COUNCILORS APPROVED THE MEASURE FOR THE NOVEMBER BALLOT BY AN 8 TO 1 VOTE LAST MONTH.

THE GOAL BEING TO TIGHTEN THE HOUSING DISPARITY IN A CITY WITH A MEDIAN HOME PRICE HOVERING AROUND $650,000 ACCORDING TO THE MOST ESTIMATES.

THIS WEEK I CAUGHT UP WITH MIKE LOFTIN, CEO OF HOMEWISE, A NONPROFIT HOME BUILDER FOCUSED ON AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

LOFTIN CONTENDS THAT SANTA FE'S HOUSING MARKET IS IN A DIRE SITUATION.

THIS PROPOSAL COULD BRING SOME BALANCE.

MIKE LOFTIN, THANKS FOR JOINING ME ON NEW MEXICO FOCUS.

>> Loftin: GOOD TO BE HERE.

>> Lou: WE'LL GET TO THAT BALLOT MEASURE ON THE TABLE FOR SANTA FE VOTERS IN JUST A SECOND BUT I WANT TO START WITH THE BROADER HOUSING SITUATION IN THE CAPITOL CITY RIGHT NOW.

HOW WOULD YOU DESCRIBE THE HOUSING MARKET THERE?

>> Loftin: I HAVE BEEN WORKING ON HOUSING ISSUES IN SANTA FE FOR 31 YEARS NOW.

IT'S THE WORST I HAVE EVER SEEN IT.

THE MEDIAN PRICE IS OVER 650 I THINK NOW.

WE HAVEN'T SEEN THAT BEFORE.

VERY FEW NEW HOMES BEING BUILT THAT ARE ENTRY-LEVEL HOMES THAT A FIRST-TIME HOME BUYER CAN AFFORD.

IT HAS GOTTEN TOUGH.

>> Lou: WHAT CONDITIONS HAVE ALLOWED THE CITY TO REACH THAT POINT?

>> Loftin: I THINK SANTA FE HAS ALWAYS HAD A LOT OF PRESSURE ON ITS HOUSING MARKET BECAUSE PEOPLE LOVE SANTA FE.

LOTS OF PEOPLE -- PEOPLE WHO ARE BUYING MILLION DOLLAR HOMES GENERALLY DIDN'T MAKE THEIR MONEY HERE IN NEW MEXICO.

THEY MADE IT SOMEWHERE ELSE AND YOU SELL A HOUSE IN CALIFORNIA AND YOU HAVE A LOT OF EQUITY, SO YOU CAN BUY A LOT OF HOUSE, OFTENTIMES WITH CASH.

SO, THERE HAS ALWAYS BEEN THAT PRESSURE.

I THINK AFTER THE RECESSION HAPPENED, THE GREAT RECESSION, PEOPLE JUST QUIT BUILDING NEW HOMES, SO WE HAVE A HUGE UNDERSUPPLY.

THIS IS TRUE FOR THE WHOLE COUNTRY, JUST A HUGE UNDERSUPPLY OF HOUSING RIGHT NOW, SO THAT HAS COMPOUNDED IT.

THEN COVID-19 WAS LIKE, YOU KNOW, THE PERFECT STORM, I GUESS, WHERE PEOPLE WHO WANTED TO BAIL OUT AND SAY I WANT A DIFFERENT KIND OF LIFE-STYLE, I CAN TELECOMMUTE, AND I WOULD HAVE NEVER GUESSED THAT, RIGHT, THAT A PANDEMIC WOULD CAUSE HOUSING INFLATION, NOT THE OPPOSITE.

I THOUGHT EVERYTHING WOULD JUST GRIND TO A HALT.

IT WAS THE COMPLETE OPPOSITE SO PLACES LIKE NEW MEXICO IT PUT A LOT OF PRESSURE ON THE HOUSING MARKET.

>> Lou: WHO IS GETTING PRICED OUT IN THE CURRENT SCENARIO?

>> Loftin: IT IS PEOPLE WHO WORK THERE, RIGHT.

SO, SCHOOLTEACHERS, NURSES, POLICE OFFICERS.

YOU KNOW, WELL OVER 1/3 OF SANTA FE'S WORKFORCE LIVES OUTSIDE THE COUNTY, NOT JUST OUTSIDE THE CITY LIMITS, BUT IN A DIFFERENT COUNTY.

SO, WE NEED THESE PEOPLE.

WE NEED NURSES AND PEOPLE THAT WORK AT RESTAURANTS AND PEOPLE THAT BUY EXPENSIVE SECOND HOMES WANT SOMEONE TO WAIT THEIR TABLE TOO, SO IT IS GOOD FOR EVERYBODY IF PEOPLE CAN LIVE WHERE THEY WORK.

>> Lou: HAS THERE BEEN ANY RECENT PROGRESS IN TRYING TO CREATE MORE AFFORDABLE HOUSING?

>> Loftin: THERE HAS AND THE CITY HAS ACTUALLY DONE A LOT OF GOOD THINGS, RIGHT, I MEAN, THEY HAD THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING TRUST FUND WHICH WAS, I THINK, THE FIRST IN THE STATE TO DEDICATE LOCAL MONEY FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING, SO IT WAS A WIG DEAL.

THEY, A LONG TIME AGO, BOUGHT TIERRA CONTENTA, WHICH IS A BIG PIECE OF LAND ON THE SOUTH END OF SANTA FE WHERE A LOT OF NEW AFFORDABLE HOUSING HAS BEING BUILT, THEY HAVE -- THEY PRIORITIZE OTHER FEDERAL MONEY FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

THEY ARE DOING A LOT BUT JUST NOT ENOUGH TO DEAL WITH THE PROBLEM THAT WE HAVE.

>> Lou: THIS PROPOSAL THAT VOTERS ARE GOING TO CONSIDER IN NOVEMBER, IT WOULD PLACE A 3% EXCISE TAX ON THE PURCHASE PRICE OF HOMES IN THE CITY OVER A MILLION DOLLARS.

THAT IS EVERY DOLLAR OVER THE ONE MILLION POINT WOULD BE TAXED.

IF VOTERS PASS THIS, AN ESTIMATED FOUR-AND-A-HALF MILLION WOULD GO INTO THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING TRUST FUND THAT YOU JUST MENTIONED.

CAN YOU EXPLAIN HOW THAT TRUST FUND WORKS?

>> Loftin: THE TRUST FUND HAS BEEN AROUND FOR QUITE A WHILE AND ORIGINALLY IT WAS FUNDED BY LAND SALES THAT THE CITY HAD, OR, YOU KNOW, JUST ONE OFF EPISODIC EVENTS, RIGHT, THAT PUTS MONEY INTO IT.

MORE RECENTLY THE LEADERSHIP OF THE CITY HAS BEEN GOOD AT PUTTING AT LEAST THREE MILLION OF GENERAL FUND REVENUE INTO IT EVERY YEAR.

SO THAT HAS BEEN GOOD.

THAT IS RELATIVELY NEW, ONLY HAPPENED IN THE LAST FEW YEARS.

NOW, THIS IS GOING TO BRING IN LIKE, IF THEY DO THIS EXCISE TAX ON THE VALUE OF A HOME ABOVE A MILLION, IT IS FOUR-AND-A-HALF TO SIX MILLION WILL COME IN EVERY YEAR.

SO, THAT IS SIGNIFICANT, RIGHT.

IT ISN'T GOING TO SOLVE THE WHOLE PROBLEM.

WE HAVE THIS WHOLE PERFECT -- IT WON'T SOLVE EVERYTHING, YEAH, WELL, I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING THAT SOLVES EVERYTHING.

BUT IT IS GOING -- IT IS A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION AND WILL DO A LOT.

IF THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT DOESN'T HAVE ITS OWN MONEY TO INVEST IN HOUSING IT IS REALLY -- IT IS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO LEVERAGE OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY, PRIVATE MONEY, FEDERAL MONEY.

YOU HAVE TO MONEY IN THE GAME.

YOU HAVE TO HAVE AN ANTE IN ORDER TO PLAY THE GAME.

SO, THE FACT THAT THEY HAVE LOCAL MONEY, THE BEAUTY OF THE TRUST FUND IS IT IS SUPER FLEXIBLE.

HOMEWISE USES IT TO BUILD NEW HOMES, ENTRY-LEVEL HOMES, ALSO, LIKE, YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY WHO IS A VICTIM OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE CAN GET A RENT VOUCHER THROUGH THE PROGRAM TO MAKE SURE THEY HAVE SAFE HOUSING, SO WAY BETTER TO GET SOMEBODY INTO A SAFE PLACE TO LIVE THAN HAVE THEM LIVE IN A CAR FOR THREE MONTHS.

THE FLEXIBILITY, IT ALLOWS TO ADDRESS MULTIPLE ASPECTS OF THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING PROBLEM.

>> Lou: SO, THREE MILLION RIGHT NOW FROM THE GENERAL FUND POTENTIALLY UP TO FOUR-AND-A-HALF TO SIX MILLION.

THAT IS MORE THAN DOUBLE WOULD BE ADDED TO IT.

IS THAT ENOUGH MONEY TO MAKE AN IMPACT?

>> Loftin: IT MAKES AN IMPACT.

IT WON'T SOLVE THE WHOLE PROBLEM.

WE STILL HAVE GOT TO BUILD NEW HOMES.

WE STILL NEED TO HAVE -- THEY ARE WORKING ON CHANGING THE LAND USE CODE TO MAKE SOME OF THAT EASIER.

SO, YOU GOT TO DO MULTIPLE THINGS.

COMPLEX PROBLEMS HAVE MULTIPLE CAUSES AND THEY HAVE TO HAVE MULTIPLE ASPECTS FOR SOLUTION.

IT WILL BE A BIG DEAL TO HAVE THAT KIND OF MONEY, YOU KNOW, AVAILABLE.

>> Lou: NOW IN 2009 SANTA FE VOTERS REJECTED A SIMILAR MEASURE.

IT WOULD HAVE APPLIED TO HOMES ABOVE 4750,000.

AND IT WOULD HAVE APPLIED A TAX RATE OF 1% INSTEAD OF 3%.

THAT DID NOT PASS.

WHAT IS DIFFERENT NOW?

DO YOU THINK IT HAS A BETTER SHOT?

>> Loftin: I THINK IT HAS A WAY BETTER SHOT.

THAT FIRST TIME I WAS AROUND WHEN THAT WAS GOING ON AND BASICALLY THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY KIND OF REFLEXIVELY CAME OUT AGAINST ANY KIND OF NEW TAX BECAUSE WE DON'T LIKE THAT "T" WORD, RIGHT.

THIS TIME THE ONLY ONE COMING OUT AGAINST IT IS THE ASSOCIATION OF REALTORS, WHICH IS NO SURPRISE BECAUSE I THINK THE BROADER BUSINESS COMMUNITY REALIZES IF WE DON'T HAVE HOUSING OUR WORKFORCE CAN AFFORD, I MEAN, THEY ARE STRUGGLING JUST TO KEEP THEIR DOORS OPEN.

HEALTHCARE AS ALL THESE VACANCIES.

PRIVATE BUSINESSES HAVE ALL THESE VACANCIES.

RESTAURANTS ARE CLOSING DOWN TO TWO TO THREE DAYS A WEEK BECAUSE THEY CAN'T GET ENOUGH OF A WORKFORCE.

PEOPLE REALIZE WE HAVE TO MAKE IT POSSIBLE FOR THE WORKFORCE TO LIVE THERE OR IT IS GOING TO AFFECT EVERYBODY NEGATIVELY.

I THINK -- AND THE PROBLEM HAS GOTTEN SO MUCH WORSE THAN IT WAS BACK THEN.

I THINK THERE IS A RECOGNITION THAT WE REALLY NEED TO DO SOMETHING AND WE NEED TO DO IT NOW.

>> Lou: HOW WOULD YOU RESPOND TO THAT CRITICISM IN GENERAL AND IS THERE ANY OTHER ORGANIZED OPPOSITION OTHER THAN THE SANTA FE ASSOCIATION OF REALTORS.

>> Loftin: I THINK THE REALTORS HAVE IT WRONG.

PERSONALLY I KNOW MORE REALTORS ARE FOR IT THAN AGAINST IT.

BUT I ALSO KNOW REALTORS WHO WORK MORE WITH FIRST TIME HOME BUYERS AND THAT END OF THE MARKET, NOT, YOU KNOW, MILLION DOLLAR SECOND HOMES, BUT IF YOU THINK YOU'RE INDUSTRY IN REAL ESTATE IS THE MAIN PART OF THAT AND MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THAT ARE PEOPLE BUYING SECOND HOMES, VERY EXPENSIVE SECOND HOMES, I GET THE CONCERN, I GET THE FEAR.

BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THE HOUSING MARKET AS WHOLE, FIRST-TIME HOMEBUYERS AND THOSE FIRST-TIME HOMEBUYERS EVENTUALLY GET ENOUGH EQUITY IN THEIR FAMILY HOME AND THEY BIGGER HOMES.

SO, HAVING MOBILITY WITHIN THE HOUSING MARKET IS REALLY IMPORTANT.

HAVING A HEALTHY HOUSING SPECTRUM IS IMPORTANT.

I ACTUALLY THINK THIS IS GOOD FOR THE REAL ESTATE INDUSTRY BECAUSE IT WILL FLUSH OUT THE MARKET.

IT IS SO FOCUSED RIGHT NOW ON SELLING SECOND HOMES TO, YOU KNOW, MULTI-MILLION DOLLAR HOMES TO PEOPLE BUYING A SECOND HOME.

THOSE FOLKS AREN'T -- THEY ARE ONLY HERE PART OF THE TIME.

THEY ARE NOT FUELING GROSS RECEIPTS TAX.

THEY ARE NOT PAYING THOSE TAXES BECAUSE THEY ARE ONLY HERE TWO WEEKS OUT OF THE YEAR.

SO, THIS TAX MAKES A LOT OF SENSE TO ME THAT THAT PART OF THE MARKET THAT IS VERY SKEWED UPWARD IS THAT WE USE THAT TO HELP FUEL AND MAKE HEALTHY THE REST OF THE HOUSING MARKET WHICH I THINK IS GOING TO BE GOOD FOR EVERYBODY.

>> Lou: THE CITY SAID THAT IT HOPES PROJECTS LIKE THE SANTA FE SUITES COULD BE A MODEL FOR MORE AFFORDABLE HOUSING DEVELOPMENTS, BUT THE MOST RECENT PROJECT, THE LAMPLIGHTER PROJECT, IS STILL FACING DELAYS.

GIVEN THE DISPARITIES IN ACCESS TO HOUSING UP IN SANTA FE, WHY DO YOU THINGS SEEM TO MOVE SO SLOWLY.

>> Loftin: THAT IS A REALLY GOOD QUESTION AND IT DOES MOVE WAY TOO SLOWLY AND I THINK WE HAVE GOT TO GET OUT OF OUR OWN WAY.

YOU HAVE TO HAVE MONEY TO DO THESE PROJECTS.

SANTA FE SUITES WOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED AND LAMPLIGHTER WOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED WITHOUT MONEY COMING INTO IT, INCLUDING MONEY FROM THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING TRUST FUND.

NOW THAT DOESN'T MEAN WE SHOULDN'T ALSO WORK TO IMPROVE THE DEVELOPMENT REVIEW PROCESS AND MAKE IT MORE EFFICIENT AND QUICKER.

WE WANT TO MAKE GOOD DECISIONS AND MAKE SURE THERE IS A BUILDING CODE THAT PROTECTS PEOPLES AND PLACES BUT I THINK WE CAN DO A BETTER JOB OF MAKING THE MACHINERY OF GOVERNMENT WORK MORE EFFICIENTLY FOR SURE.

>> Lou: IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE THAT STANDS IN THE WAY?

YOU HAVE BEEN PUBLICLY CRITICAL OF THE "NOT IN MY BACK YARD" TYPE OF ATTITUDE UP THERE.

HOW DOES THAT TRANSLATE INTO ROADBLOCKS WHEN TRYING TO BUILD THESE DEVELOPMENTS?

>> Loftin: EVERYBODY SAYS, I AM FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

EVERYBODY SAYS I AM FOR REDUCING OUR CARBON FOOTPRINT AND ADDRESSING CLIMATE CHANGE AND THEN WE HAVE A SOLAR FARM OUTSIDE OF SANTA FE THAT PEOPLE ARE OPPOSING BECAUSE IT IS IN THEIR BACK YARD.

THIS GOES WITH IT.

IT IS ABOUT TO AFFECT THOSE FOLK.

THEY ARE GOING TO SEE SOLAR PANELS AND NOT WHAT THEY SEE NOW.

SAME WITH AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

YOU'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE THE SAME VIEW OR CAN'T TAKE YOUR DOG THERE TO USE THE BATHROOM ON THAT VACANT LOT, BUT IF WE ARE GOING TO ADDRESS WHAT WE NEED AS A WHOLE COMMUNITY, WE HAVE TO MAKE TRADEOFFS.

AND IT IS WAY BETTER TO BUILD AFFORDABLE HOUSING IN AN INFILL LOT USING EXISTING INFRASTRUCTURE AND NOT FUELING SPRAWL WHERE NOW PEOPLE HAVE TO DRIVE FARTHER TO GET TO WORK WHICH IS NOT GOOD FOR THEIR FAMILIES AND NOT GOOD FOR THE ENVIRONMENT.

WE NEED TO HAVE THE POLITICAL WILL TO DO THIS.

PART OF IT IS DO WE HAVE MONEY AND ARE WE FUNDING STUFF.

PART OF IT IS, ARE WE APPROVING THINGS THAT THE PEOPLE OF SANTA FE NEED?

>> Lou: DO YOU THINK THAT IS BEING COMMUNICATED EFFECTIVELY TO THE PUBLIC?

YOU KNOW, THE NEED FOR MAYBE SACRIFICING A LITTLE BIT FOR THE GREATER LONG-TERM GOOD OF THE CITY?

>> Loftin: I THINK THE PROBLEM IS A LOT OF POLITICAL DISCOURSE IS JUST THIS PRO AND CON.

IT IS KIND OF THIS KNEE JERK REACTION TO STUFF AS OPPOSED TO SITTING DOWN AND SAYING, WHAT KIND OF COMMUNITY DO WE WANT TO LIVE IN?

WHAT DO WE WANT OUR FUTURE TO BE?

WE HAVE THIS WHOLE VISIBILITY SERIES WHERE WE BRING PEOPLE -- SPEAKERS INTO SANTA FE AND LET'S TALK ABOUT THE BIG PICTURE.

WE ARE HAVING ONE ON WATER AND PARKING.

THERE IS A STORY THAT A THIRD OF DOWNTOWN ALBUQUERQUE'S LAND MASS IS DEDICATED TO PARKING.

LIKE, IS THAT REALLY WHAT WE WANT OR WOULD WE LIKE A MORE WALKABLE DOWNTOWN.

WOULD WE LIKE TO BE ABLE TO WORK DOWNTOWN AND WALK FOR LUNCH AND GO FOR A DRINK AFTER WORK.

PEOPLE GO ON VACATION, THEY GO TO EUROPEAN CITIES TO HAVE THAT EXPERIENCE.

WHY DON'T WE DO THAT HERE?

WHY DON'T WE DO SOME OF THE STUFF WE LOVE.

BUT PEOPLE ARE AFRAID OF CHANGE, RIGHT.

AND ONCE YOU -- BECAUSE THERE MIGHT BE SOME KIND OF LOSS THERE.

OFTENTIMES ONCE THAT CHANGE HAPPENS, PEOPLE EMBRACE IT LIKE, WHAT WERE THEY THINKING, IT IS GREAT TO BE ABLE TO WALK DOWN THE STREET AND GET A CUP OF COFFEE, WHEREAS ONE THAT WAS PROPOSED, WELL, THAT IS ONLY GOING TO INCREASE TRAFFIC.

IT IS ALWAYS SOME KIND OF LOSS AND WE KNOW THIS.

PSYCHOLOGISTS STUDIED THIS, RIGHT.

WE FEAR LOSS WAY MORE THAN WE RELISH GAIN AND WE NEED AS A COMMUNITY TO KNOW THERE IS A HUGE GAIN FROM HAVING YOUR WORKFORCE LIVING IN THE COMMUNITY.

WHEN THERE IS EMERGENCY, THAT THE SWAT TEAM AND THE POLICE OFFICER DOESN'T HAVE TO COMMUTE 60 MINUTES FROM ALBUQUERQUE TO SANTA FE.

IT IS A GOOD THING TO HAVE THEM IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD, SO LET'S DO IT.

>> Lou: THIS PROPOSAL ON THE TABLE, THESE ARE MY WORDS, BUT IT IS TAX THE RICH PHILOSOPHY, IN GENERAL.

WHATEVER THE DOLLAR AMOUNTS, COULD SOMETHING LIKE THIS TRANSLATE TO ANOTHER CITY IN NEW MEXICO, SAY, ALBUQUERQUE?

>> Loftin: I THINK SO, BECAUSE WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT IS, YOU KNOW, HOUSING IS PART OF A MARKETPLACE, RIGHT?

WHAT YOU HAVE IN SANTA FE IS THIS SKEWED UPWARD MARKET AND PEOPLE AT THE ENTRY LEVEL OF THAT MARKET ARE BEING LEFT OUT.

SO, YOU KNOW, THERE HAS BEEN ARGUMENT WHY DON'T WE RAISE THE PROPERTY TAXES ON EVERYONE?

NOW YOU'RE RAISING THE HOUSING COST, THE PROPERTY TAX PART OF THE HOUSING COSTS OF THE PEOPLE THAT CAN LEAST AFFORD IT.

IT MAKES SENSE TO TAX THE SECOND HOME, MORE EXPENSIVE HOME TO EQUALIZE THAT OUT.

I THINK IT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE TO DO THAT.

ALBUQUERQUE MIGHT BE DIFFERENT, WHAT THAT SOLUTION IS, AND I DON'T KNOW THAT HIGH END OF THE MARKET IN ALBUQUERQUE, BUT IT IS CERTAINLY WORTH LOOKING AT.

WE SHOULD -- IN SANTA FE IT IS A VERY APPROPRIATE MEASURED SOLUTION, BUT WE -- YOU KNOW, IT IS NOT THE ONLY SOLUTION.

WE NEED TO LOOK AT DIFFERENT SOLUTIONS IN DIFFERENT PLACES.

>> Lou: OVERALL IN SANTA FE, IS MONEY ENOUGH TO SOLVE THE LARGER PROBLEM OF THE HOUSING DISPARITIES THERE?

ARE THERE OTHER FACTORS THAT MAKE SANTA FE UNAFFORDABLE FOR PEOPLE?

>> Loftin: MONEY IS NOT ENOUGH.

YOU HAVE TO HAVE MONEY.

THAT IS PART OF THE EQUATION, BUT YOU ALSO HAVE TO HAVE NEW SUPPLY OF HOUSING.

SO, JUST HAVING MONEY FOR DOWN PAYMENT ASSISTANCE IF YOU'RE NOT BUILDING HOUSES ISN'T GOING TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM.

SO WE NEED TO DO BOTH.

IF YOU TRY TO HELP SOMEBODY GET INTO A HOME, CAN THEY AFFORD IT AND CAN THEY ACCESS IT, RIGHT?

IF PEOPLE DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO DOWN PAYMENT BECAUSE THE RENTS ARE SO HIGH THEY CAN'T SAVE IT, WE HAVE TO CLOSE THAT GAP, TOO, SO YOU HAVE TO DO MULTIPLE THINGS.

I THINK THE BIGGEST THING SANTA FE NEEDS TO DO IS IT HAS MADE A LOT OF PROGRESS ON DEVELOPING NEW RENTAL HOUSING.

WHERE WE ARE FALLING BEHIND, IF YOU LOOK AT A GRAPH, I MEAN THE NUMBER OF RENTAL PERMITS IS GOING UP QUITE BIT.

THE NUMBER OF PERMITS FOR OWNERSHIP HOUSING HAS BEEN GOING DOWN OVER THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS.

WE GOT TO SHIFT THAT DYNAMIC.

BUT IT IS DOABLE, YOU KNOW, I THINK IT IS NOT LIKE, YEAH, THIS IS A SOLVABLE PROBLEM BUT YOU NEED THE POLITICAL WILL TO SOLVE IT.

>> Lou: MIKE LOFTIN, THANKS FOR JOINING ME HERE ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS.

>> Loftin: GREAT, THANK YOU.

>> Russell: THANKS AGAIN TO LOU AND HOMEWISE' CEO MIKE LOFTIN.

NOW WE RETURN TO THE ROUNDTABLE FOR ONE LAST CONVERSATION ABOUT BILL RICHARDSON.

LOOKING BROADLY PAST HIS WORK AS GOVERNOR, RICHARDSON WENT FROM BEING DERIDED IN THE 1980'S AS A CARPETBAGGER WITH ROOTS IN MEXICO AND CALIFORNIA, TO BECOMING THE FACE OF POLITICS IN NEW MEXICO.

HERE IS A FLUENT SPANISH SPEAKER, A HIGH PROFILE HISPANIC POLITICIAN AT A TIME WHEN THERE WEREN'T NEARLY AS MANY AS THERE ARE NOW.

BUT HOW DID RICHARDSON'S TIME IN THE NATIONAL SPOTLIGHT, WHETHER AS GOVERNOR OR UNITED NATION AMBASSADOR OR ENERGY SECRETARY, SHAPE THE WAY PEOPLE OUTSIDE OF OUR STATE THINK OF NEW MEXICO?

I'LL START WITH YOU, DIANE.

YOU TALKED ABOUT SEEING HIM RUMPLED WHEN HE WAS RUNNING FOR OFFICE AS A CONGRESSMAN IN THE 1980'S THERE IN NORTHERN NEW MEXICO TO BECOMING SOMEBODY ON A NATIONAL STAGE.

AND IT WAS RELATIVELY UNIQUE BECAUSE HE WAS NOT FROM HERE AND, AS WE SAID, WE GIVE PRIVILEGE TO PEOPLE THAT LIKE ACEQUIAS AND PLAYED BASKETBALL, HOW DID HE ACCOMPLISH THIS?

>> Diane: I THINK HE JUST GLOSSED OVER THE FACT THAT HE SPOKE SPANISH.

I THINK WHEN I SAW HIM IN NORTHERN NEW MEXICO AND SOUTHERN NEW MEXICO IN LITTLE POCKET COMMUNITIES, BILL RICHARDSON ALWAYS, YOU KNOW, HE KNEW WHEN HE COULD SPEAK SPANISH AND, FRANKLY, A LOT OF PEOPLE WEREN'T SO AWARE OF HIS BACKGROUND.

THEY DIDN'T PAY MUCH ATTENTION TO THE CARPETBAGGER, THE POLITICAL WORDS THAT WERE USED MANY TIMES IN THE ARENA, BUT HAVING SPOKEN TO MANY PEOPLE THIS WEEK SINCE HIS DEATH, EVERYBODY HAS A STORY ABOUT BILL RICHARDSON AND THAT TELLS YOU SOMETHING ABOUT THE KIND OF RETAIL POLITICAL GUY HE WAS.

ONE PERSON TOLD ME THAT, YOU KNOW, AFTER BILL RICHARDSON CAME TO NEW MEXICO AND AFTER HE WAS GOVERNOR, THE WEATHER MAN QUIT STANDING IN FRONT OF NEW MEXICO ON THE MAP AND NOW HE HAS MOVED OVER AND NEW MEXICO IS ON THE MAP.

AND I THOUGHT THAT WAS A REALLY CUTE INTERPRETATION OF HIS INFLUENCE ON PUTTING US ON THE MAP.

I THINK HE DID AND, YOU KNOW, WHEN I WAS FIRST LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR, HE BROUGHT THE NORTH KOREANS AND INVITED ME TO DINNER WITH THEM TO THEIR SURPRISE AND CERTAINLY TO MY SURPRISE.

AND YOU KNOW HE HAD A REALLY BROAD, OPEN DOOR AND HE WOULD BRING NOT JUST EXPERT POLICY PEOPLE AROUND HIM BUT, YOU KNOW, THE FOURTH FLOOR JUST REALLY LIT UP A LOT WITH MOVIE STARS LIKE SHIRLEY MACLAINE AND GENE HACKMAN AND SEAN PENN AND ALL THOSE PEOPLE THAT CAME UP AND REDFORD -- SEAN PENN AND REDFORD HAD DIFFERENT AGENDAS IN THE ENVIRONMENT, WORLD PEACE, BUT HE NEVER SHUT ANY POLICY DISCUSSIONS OUT EVEN IF THEY WEREN'T LOCALLY BASED.

>> Russell: WHAT ABOUT HERE AT HOME?

HE WAS DIFFERENT FROM ANYBODY WHO PRECEDED HIM OR SUCCEEDED HIM HERE AS GOVERNOR.

HE WAS AMBITIOUS FROM THE START.

WHEN HE RAN FOR PRESIDENT HE HAD A HUGE PERSONALITY GOVERNOR STYLE AND IT AFFECTED THE WAY NEW MEXICANS THOUGHT ABOUT HIM.

WHAT KIND OF POLITICIAN DID HE BECOME?

WAS HE TRANSFORMING?

EVOLVING?

WHAT DID YOU SEE COMING FROM HIM?

>> Steve: I THINK EVEN THOUGH THEIR STYLES ARE DIFFERENT, I SEE A LOT OF BRUCE KING IN RICHARDSON.

A BIG GUYS, HE GOES IN THE ROOM, HE KNOWS EVERYBODY.

HOW IS YOUR MOM?

HOW IS YOUR BROTHER?

>> Russell: HE MIGHT NOT LIKE THAT IF YOU TOLD HIM THAT TO HIS FACE.

>> Steve: HE MIGHT ARGUE WITH ME ON THAT.

BUT IT IS TRUE, BILL.

AND, YEAH, YOU TALK CARPETBAGGER.

I THINK HE SHOOK THAT FAIRLY EARLY IN HIS CAREER.

HE HAD SO MANY TOWN HALLS THROUGHOUT NORTHERN NEW MEXICO WHEN HE WAS IN CONGRESS AND I COVERED A FEW OF THOSE.

I DIDN'T REALLY COVER CONGRESS A LOT BACK THEN, BUT, EVERY TIME I WENT HE KNEW PEOPLE, NOT JUST THE BIG WIGS.

NOT JUST THE POLITICAL LEADERS.

HE KNEW FARMERS AND RANCHERS AND WORKERS AND HE SEEMED TO TAKE A PERSONAL INTEREST IN THEM AND HE LISTENED TO THEM.

AND I THINK THAT IS HOW HE CAME OFF, AND HE WAS A TRANSFORMATIONAL POLITICIAN.

HE GOT A LOT OF STUFF DONE THAT NO ONE WOULD DREAM OF.

WE TALK ABOUT THE RAIL RUNNER AND SPACEPORT.

THOSE ARE BIG ACCOMPLISHMENTS BUT I THINK EVEN BIGGER WAS THE FILM INDUSTRY, LIKE WE DISCUSSED A LITTLE BIT EARLIER.

I THINK THAT HAD MORE LASTING IMPACTS THAN THE SPACEPORT OR ANY OF THEM.

>> Russell: HOW WAS HE VIEWED NATIONALLY.

>> Martha: I BEG YOUR PARDON?

>> Russell: HOW WAS HE VIEWED NATIONALLY?

>> Martha: HE WAS VIEWED POSITIVELY FOR THE MOST PART.

HE HAD HIS DETRACTORS, OF COURSE, AND POLITICS THEN, IT IS HARD TO IMAGINE BECAUSE THEY ARE SO BITTER NOW, BUT PEOPLE WERE STILL POLITE TO ONE ANOTHER, FOR THE MOST PART.

AND, SO, EVEN IF THEY DIDN'T AGREE WITH HIM, THEY RESPECTED WHAT HE COULD DO AND HAD DONE AND HIS POTENTIAL, I THINK, AS WELL.

SO, I THINK IN THAT DEPARTMENT HE WAS PRETTY SOLIDLY ENTRENCHED WITH NOT ONLY THE CONSTITUENTS BUT WITH THE COLLEAGUES.

HE HAD BEEN IN CONGRESS, OBVIOUSLY.

HE HAD ALL THOSE CONTACTS AND I THINK HE WAS STILL VERY WELL REGARDED.

>> Russell: THERE WERE ALSO PLENTY OF CONTRADICTIONS TO BILL RICHARDSON.

HE WAS A CHAMPION AT WOMEN'S ISSUES.

WE TALKED ABOUT THE PAY EQUITY THING THAT HE WAS ABLE TO GET THROUGH.

YET HIS NAME TURNED UP IN CONNECTION WITH JEFFREY EPSTEIN.

HE SPRUNG JOURNALISTS OUT OF FOREIGN PRISONS AND YET HE COULD BE ILLUSIVE AND THORNY WITH THE LOCAL PRESS.

HOW DO WE NEGOTIATE THAT?

>> BURK: CAREFULLY.

BUT I THINK MOST OF THE MEMBERS OF THE PRESS KNEW HIS UP'S AND DOWN'S, WOULD YOU SAY, OR QUIRKS, HOW TO SORT OF RELATE TO HIM.

THAT WAS TRUE IN MY ROLE AS WELL.

IT WAS STRICTLY PROFESSIONAL.

WE WERE NOT COLLEAGUES OUTSIDE OF THE WORK.

WE WERE NOT PERSONAL FRIENDS ALTHOUGH WE WERE ALWAYS CORDIAL.

AND I THINK YOU JUST HAD TO REALIZE HIS -- THE DEPTH HE HAD AND THE DIFFERENT KIND OF WAYS YOU MIGHT HAVE TO INTERACT WITH HIM DEPENDING ON THE SUBJECT, DEPENDING ON THE TIME.

HE WAS VERY TIME SENSITIVE.

HE WANTED YOU TO GET TO THE POINT AND IT JUST TOOK A LITTLE BIT OF THINKING CAREFULLY BEFORE YOU EVER GOT WITH HIM, WHAT IS YOUR GOAL HERE?

HOW CAN YOU ACCOMPLISH IT KNOWING HIS DEPTH AND KNOWLEDGE, WHICH WAS CONSIDERABLE ON MANY THINGS, AND KNOWING HIS PERSONAL STYLE.

>> Russell: PAY EQUITY, YOU STILL THINK THAT IS A GREAT ACCOMPLISHMENT.

>> Martha: I KNOW IT IS.

IT WAS THE FIRST IN THE NATION INITIATIVE AND I HAVE TO SAY IT WAS SO DISAPPOINTING AND I KNOW DIANE WILL SHARE THIS, THAT A WOMAN GOVERNOR THAT FOLLOWED HIM KILLED IT.

IT WAS THE FIRST INITIATIVE IN THE NATION, FIRST OF ALL, TO STUDY OUR OWN PAY EQUITY IN THE STATE WORKFORCE AND IT WAS QUITE A GOOD REPORT.

WE WERE DOING VERY WELL.

BUT, THIS WAS TO HAVE ANY CONTRACTOR THAT WANTED A CONTRACT WITH THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO TO TELL US HOW THEY WERE PAYING WOMEN AND HOW THEY WERE PAYING MEN, BECAUSE THAT IS TAXPAYER MONEY AND WE HAVE A RIGHT TO KNOW, NOT ANYBODY'S SALARY ON A BULLETIN BOARD, JUST AGGREGATE DATA.

AND IT WAS A MODEL EFFORT AND, AS I SAID, FIRST IN THE NATION AND IT HAD THE POTENTIAL FOR NATIONAL REPLICATION.

AND WHEN MARTINEZ CAME IN, IT ALL WENT AWAY.

>> Russell: DIANE, HE HELPED NEGOTIATE THE RELEASE OF AMERICANS HELD IN CAPTIVE IN PLACES LIKE NORTH KOREA, SUDAN, IRAQ, CUBA.

AND JUST LAST YEAR HE PLAYED A PART IN BRINGING U.S. WOMEN'S BASKETBALL PLAYER BRITTNEY GRINER BACK FROM DETENTION IN MOSCOW.

HE LIKE THE TERM FREE-LANCE NEGOTIATOR AND HE HAD SOME REAL SUCCESSES IN SPOTS WHERE THE GOVERNMENT HAD FAILED.

HOW DID HIS PERSONALITY LEND ITSELF TO THAT WORK AND WHERE DOES HIS DEATH LEAVE A VOID IN THIS CORNER OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS.

WE DON'T HAVE A GOVERNOR WHO HAS THESE SKILLS, BUT WHAT DID WE LOSE?

>> Diane: I THINK WHAT WE LOST WAS SOMEBODY WHO HAD THE TRUE INTEREST OF THE FAMILIES.

A LOT OF TIMES -- AND I THINK THAT IS WHERE BILL BECAME A ROGUE OR A FREE-LANCE NEGOTIATOR WAS HE WANTED TO HELP THOSE FAMILIES BE REUNITED.

THAT WAS HIS STRENGTH.

THE PENTAGON, OTHER NEGOTIATORS, THEY HAVE OTHER INTERESTS AT HEART, HOW THE PRESIDENT LOOKS, THOSE KIND OF THINGS.

I'LL TELL YOU A CUTE STORY.

I SAW HIM AT SOMETHING WHEN THE BRITTNEY GRINER FIRST HAPPENED AND I SAID, ARE YOU GOING TO GET BRITTNEY GRINER OUT?

HE SAID, WELL, I HAVE A LITTLE COMPETITION FOR THAT.

AND I SAID, WHO WOULD THAT BE?

AND HE SAID JOE BIDEN AND HE SAID, YOU KNOW, HE WANTS THE CREDIT.

I SAID, I AM GOING TO TELL YOU THE LESSON I LEARNED UNDER YOU.

HE IS THE PRESIDENT.

YOU DO THE WORK, AND HE GETS THE CREDIT.

THAT IS HOW IT GOES.

AND WE LAUGHED ABOUT THAT.

HE SAID, IS THAT TRUE?

I SAID, THAT IS RIGHT.

I SAID YOU'LL GET YOUR SHARE OF THE CREDIT, GOVERNOR.

JUST DO THE BEST YOU CAN TO BRING HER HOME.

>> Russell: LET'S GO AROUND THE TABLE ONE MORE TIME.

IF RICHARDSON WERE SITTING HERE, STEVE, RIGHT NOW, WHAT WOULD HE SAY HE WAS MOST PROUD OF DURING HIS TIME IN PUBLIC OFFICE, IF YOU COULD GET HIM TO BE HONEST?

>> Steve: WELL, I THINK HE WOULD PROBABLY HAVE ABOUT 35 ITEMS.

>> Russell: HE WOULD BE MAD IF HE DIDN'T HAVE TIME TO MENTION THEM ALL.

>> Steve: YEAH, AND SO, I THINK, YEAH, I THINK HE WOULD JUST LIST ALL THE THINGS WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT AND PROBABLY MORE THAT WE HAVEN'T THOUGHT OF.

>> Russell: MARTHA, WHAT DO YOU THINK HE WOULD BE PROUD OF?

>> Martha: I THINK HE WOULD BE PROUD OF THE GENDER PARODY IN HIS ADMINISTRATION, ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS HE LOOKED AT AFTER I WENT TO WORK WITH HIM WAS HOW ARE WOMEN AND MEN BEING PAID IN THIS ADMINISTRATION.

AND HE ALWAYS HAD AN EYE ON GENDER EQUITY.

HE HAD SO MANY OTHER THINGS GOING ON THAT I DON'T KNOW THAT IT WAS AT THE TOP TOP OF THE LIST, BUT IT WAS ALWAYS IN THAT LIST.

>> Russell: DIANE, THERE WERE MANY THINGS, REFORMING THE DEPARTMENT OF ED.

>> Diane: THE DEPARTMENT OF ED, BUT I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I HAVE TO MENTION IS WHEN I BECAME LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR AND I WANTED TO WORK ON EARLY CHILDHOOD, HE GAVE ME THE RESOURCES AND THE STAFF AND THE EXPERTISE AROUND ME TO MAKE SURE THAT WE COULD DO EVERYTHING POSSIBLE FOR KIDS ZERO TO FIVE.

AND EVEN AFTER HIS -- HE KEPT PUSHING ME TO SAY, YOU SHOULD GET MORE CREDIT FOR THAT.

AND I SAID, GOVERNOR, I NEVER COULD HAVE DONE IT WITHOUT YOU.

SO I WANT THE SAY, NOT JUST PAY EQUITY, BUT HIRING WOMEN AND SUPPORTING THEM AND HELPING THEM BE SUCCESSFUL WOULD BE ONE OF HIS ACCOMPLISHMENTS.

I HAPPEN TO THINK THE FILM INDUSTRY IS PROBABLY, WHEN HE TALKS ABOUT HIS POLICY INITIATIVES, I THINK IT CREATED SO MANY JOBS, IT HAS HAD SO MUCH LONGEVITY, I THINK HE WOULD REALLY FOCUS ON THAT AS BEING SOMETHING HE DID FOR NEW MEXICO TO DIVERSIFY OUR ECONOMY.

>> Russell: WHEN HE RELEASED HIS MEMOIR, I ASKED HIM, DID HE HAVE ANY REGRETS?

AND HE TOLD ME, YES, I DO.

I SHOULD HAVE TOLD MY FATHER I LOVED HIM.

HE SAID, I NEVER HAD THAT CHANCE.

>> Martha: I WOULD LIKE TO SECOND WHAT YOU SAID ABOUT BEING GIVEN THE RESOURCES TO DO WHAT NEEDED TO BE DONE.

YOU DIDN'T HAVE TO BEG, YOU DIDN'T HAVE TO SAY, I NEED MORE MONEY, I NEED MORE STAFF.

HE WOULD SAY WHAT DO YOU NEED?

>> Diane: AT THE END OF THE SECOND ADMINISTRATION, OVER 50% OF THE CABINET SECRETARIES WERE WOMEN IN BILL RICHARDSON'S ADMINISTRATION AND THEY ALL KNEW WHAT THEY WERE DOING AND HE DIDN'T TREAT THEM ANY DIFFERENTLY THAN HE DID THE MEN.

IF THEY MESSED UP, AS WE KNOW FROM THE CURRENT GOVERNOR, HE SAID YOU'RE OUT OF HERE, YOU KNOW.

SO, HE WAS AN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY EMPLOYER.

>> Russell: THANKS AGAIN TO DIANE DENISH, FORMER NEW MEXICO LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR, MARTHA BURK, AUTHOR AND PODCAST HOST AND STEVE TERRELL, THE LEGENDARY REPORTER AT THE SANTA FE NEW MEXICAN, NOW RETIRED.

THANK YOU ALL.

>> Lou: THANKS TO RUSSELL CONTRERAS AND OUR SPECIAL PANEL TODAY AS WE REMEMBER GOVERNOR BILL RICHARDSON.

WE HAVE LINKS TO SEVERAL OBITUARIES POSTED ACROSS SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORMS AND UNDER EACH PANEL SEGMENT ON THE NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS YOUTUBE PAGE.

NOW WE END THE SHOW TONIGHT WITH SOME VIDEO FROM SANTA FE WHERE FEDERAL OFFICIALS ARE LOOKING INTO THE DESTRUCTION OF THE KIT CARSON OBELISK.

THE MONUMENT TO CHRISTOPHER KIT CARSON HAS BEEN COVERED BY A PLYWOOD BARRIER SINCE 2020 WHEN PROTESTORS TOOK DOWN ANOTHER COLONIAL MONUMENT IN THE CITY, BUT LAST WEEK SOMEBODY TOPPLED THE CARSON OBELISK, ANYWAY.

POLICE SAY THEY FOUND A CABLE NEXT TO A WHITE TRUCK THAT PULLED THE OBELISK DOWN THE NIGHT OF THURSDAY, AUGUST 31ST.

WHOEVER WAS INSIDE RAN OFF, LEAVING BEHIND A VEHICLE, AFTER ANOTHER PERSON BLOCKED THE TRUCK FROM ESCAPING.

NO CHARGES HAVE BEEN FILED.

KIT CARSON WAS A 19TH CENTURY FRONTIERSMAN AND U.S.

SOLDIER WHO PLAYED A LEADING ROLE IN THE DEATH OF HUNDREDS OF NATIVE AMERICANS.

THE INCIDENT HAPPENED ON THE EVE OF FIESTA SANTA FE WHICH HAS INFLAMED PLENTY OF RACIAL TENSIONS ITSELF IN RECENT YEARS.

THANKS TO THE SANTA FE REPORTER, ALEX DE VORE FOR THAT VIDEO FROM THE SCENE.

KEEP AN EYE ON THIS STORY AS IT DEVELOPS.

THANKS AGAIN FOR WATCHING.

WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.