- [Narrator] Funding for this edition of One-On-One with Steve Adubato has been provided by PSEG Foundation.

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(upbeat music) - Welcome to "Remember Them."

Steve Adubato with the better half on this program, Jacqui Tricarico, my co-anchor, Jacqui, tee this up.

This is two interviews that you did.

You did both of these interviews on two people we really need to remember, talk about them.

- Two great actors of our time, Joan Bennett is up first.

We'll learn more about her through her granddaughter.

Her granddaughter comes on to talk to me about the history of her family, what she learned throughout the years about something that was called The Shooting Scandal that involved Joan Bennett and her husband at that time, Walter Wanger, and Vanessa Hope, who's on with me.

She talks about this podcast that she created, all about that shooting scandal.

And then also diving into the history of her grandmother, Joan Bennett.

So really interesting, really fun way to learn more about this icon, this actress icon from many, many years ago, but still she paved the way for so many other actresses throughout the years.

And you can listen to that podcast.

It's called "Love Is a Crime."

- Love Is a Crime.

- Love Is a Crime, yep.

You can listen to that podcast on anywhere that you get your podcast to learn more about Joan Bennett, - This is Jacqui talking to Vanessa Hope about an actress not a lot of people know, but they should, Joan Bennett, check it out.

- I'm so honored to be joined now by Vanessa Hope, the co-creator of the podcast, "Love is a Crime," and the granddaughter of Joan Bennett and Walter Wanger.

Vanessa, it's so great to have you on the show.

- Thank you so much for having me.

It's so great to be here.

- So, Joan Bennett, born in Fort Lee, New Jersey, so she has those New Jersey roots.

She was born into a family of actors, her mom, her dad, sisters, a lot of people in your family's past, actors, but she oftentimes was remembered as the film-noir femme fatale roles of the 1940s, but her career started in 1928, and really ran the gamut and was very all over the place in terms of the different roles that she was able to take over those decades.

First, can you tell us a little bit about your grandmother Joan, and why she was able to become such a versatile actress of her time?

- That's such a great question, thank you.

And, again, I'm so honored to be here, and it's really fun for me to have a chance to switch gears and speak about my grandmother, who I really feel is an inspiration, and I'm so thankful, really, to be her granddaughter.

My grandmother worked hard.

She started as an actress at 16 when her father, who, as you said, Richard Bennett was an actor, brought her into a stage play he was doing called "Jarnegan," because she had already become a mother, and she had a baby to support.

So, for practical reasons, she entered a family business that, in her youth, she wasn't necessarily planning to enter.

She said she was interested in interior design, she might've done something different.

But I actually think that having that experience, becoming a mother so young, experiencing being an actor on the stage, having parents who were actors, and then being scouted and moving out to Hollywood at a young age, and kind of working, just practicing her craft and doing it for the length of time that she did, I think really contributed to her being such a versatile actor, and so, having so much talent.

- The "Love is a Crime" podcast that you co-created with Karina Longworth, it really goes in-depth, not just about Joan's life, but about so many other people in her orbit during that time, family members, colleagues.

Why did you decide to explore your family's history in this way?

And when did you decide, "Okay, we're gonna make this into a podcast.

We're going to really explore Joan's life and hear so many of these stories about so many parts of her life, some that are controversial, and some things that maybe nobody knew about her?"

- Yes.

I grew up with the stories of my grandmother, and I mentioned this in the podcast, I think in episode one, because it was kind of pivotal for me to understand that she had been part of a certain Hollywood scandal, but not really knowing what she felt about it, or even at a super young age when I first heard the story, knowing basically to ask how she might've felt about it.

But, once I arrived in Los Angeles in January, 2015, with my husband, who is a producer named Ted Hope, who, at the time, became the head of Amazon Film Studios, I felt surrounded by her history, my grandfather's history.

I felt kind of haunted by the ghosts of their past in a way.

And it was being here in Los Angeles, and then it was wanting to get to my grandmother's point of view and having the access that all these archive researchers could work with me to go into the archives of the academy, archives of the universities here, which have a lot of material, and then just a desire to learn what my grandmother had been through from her perspective.

- And you brought it up a little bit, but, really, the podcast does surround itself around that 1951 scandal between Walter Wanger and Joan Bennett's agent, Jennings Lang.

Tell us about that scandal and what's the most misunderstood part of that entire situation that you were able and you felt the need to make sure it was clear during the podcast?

- Thank you for asking.

I heard... Basically, I first heard about it as funny, one-line, like, "Your grandfather shot the lover of your grandmother in the balls in Hollywood in a parking lot in 1951."

- And that's a story that so many people heard, right?

That was what was all over the newspapers and the headline, right?

But it was so much more in-depth than that.

- Yeah, it is so much more complicated and just an aside because it happened last night.

Jay Kanter, who was the junior agent to my grandmother's agent, Jennings Lang, who she was accused of having an affair with, we don't actually know the details of that, but Jennings worked at MCA, which was the largest agency in the world at the time, Music Corporation of America.

And so, it was the parking lot in Beverly Hills opposite MCA.

But Jay Kanter passed last night, and it was- - Sorry, he was in the podcast.

I remember hearing his voice.

- He's in the podcast.

He is essentially the Jack Lemmon character in the Billy Wilder movie, "The Apartment," which is a fantastic movie, if you haven't seen it, with Shirley MacLaine.

Very moving, very worth seeing on a holiday around Christmas and New Year's.

It's a brilliant Billy Wilder film.

But he was inspired by this idea that there was an agent like Jennings Lang who was borrowing the key of his junior agent to use his apartment for his affairs or his certain liaison.

There's a lot to go into, which is part of why I did 10 episodes of this podcast to better understand the story, but I think that relationships are complicated.

Jennings had been a friend to both my grandmother and grandfather for over a decade.

I've interviewed Jenning's son, Rocky Lang, who's here in Los Angeles, and he understood that his father was in love with my grandmother, so it wasn't a light situation, there was love, there was friendship.

And my grandfather too believed that it was possible to love more than one person at the same time.

But I think what we end up doing is punishing a woman because we expect that men are sort of raised for power and women to be good, and we expect that men will have affairs and women won't.

And when a man does it, it seems okay, and when a woman does it, it's not.

So Joan suffered and continued to kind of fight through that, both in supporting her family and Walter at the time.

It was much more complicated for Walter too.

What brought him to the point where he would even use a gun, he had been made an honorary sheriff by the Beverly Hills Police Department, 'cause he had produced so many movies.

So that was part of why he even owned a gun.

And, you know, he didn't mean to really hurt Jennings, I don't think he even meant to use it.

And my mother always says that he shot at the ground in the parking lot.

He wasn't really shooting at Jennings.

But I think that it's just, we all have to allow people to have privacy, even if they're a celebrity, allow them time to work out their relationships.

There are always ups and downs in relationships, and boundaries and privacy are important, and, really, equality between the sexes is important, and not punishing a woman for loving someone.

- Yeah, yeah.

And I know it impacted her, her life, her career after that, and so much more that we can learn from the podcast.

But what do you think is the most important thing to remember about your grandmother, Joan Bennett?

- Ooh.

She was a loving mother, grandmother, she was a very talented and a hardworking and successful actress, she was in more anti-Nazi movies than any other actor of her day, she was brave, she was politically engaged, caring about democracy and caring about freedom, and she was ahead of her time, in many ways, she was ahead of her time.

And I do feel fortunate that she's my grandmother, and I'm thankful for the books she wrote, the movies she made.

They're all worth watching, they stand the test of time.

Those 1940 film noirs are fantastic.

And my grandfather was a pretty incredible person too.

That's what my mother always emphasizes that my grandfather was great.

But he wasn't born in New Jersey, - New Jersey- - Well... Yeah, and you can learn so much more, our viewers, by checking out your podcast, "Love is a Crime."

It was so fun to listen to, I recommended it to anybody who wants to learn more about this really incredible woman and her life, her career, her path, and the family, essentially, your family, and your story.

So thank you so much for sharing her story with us here today.

We really appreciate it, Vanessa.

- Thank you so much for having me, I really appreciate it too.

I really am happy to be here, and appreciate you're taking the time.

- Thank you.

We'll be right back after this.

- [Narrator] To watch more One on One with Steve Adubato find us online and follow us on Social media.

Jacqui, we now remember Ron Cephas Jones, who played William Hill on the hit series that my wife and I and millions of others watched, "This Is Us."

He was Randall's father.

Here's the thing that really struck me as I'm watching and I'm thinking what a great actor Ron Cephas Jones was, he was very sick and dying while doing the series.

Talk about this because the interview that you did is with Jasmine Cephas Jones, Ron's daughter, right?

- Yes, I was so honored to have Jasmine join us for this interview to learn more about her dad.

She's an actress as well.

She was in "Hamilton" on Broadway in the original cast.

She's done amazing things on Broadway, on TV, film, and also a singer.

And she tells us more about her dad and the battle, the health battle that he fought for many years and how he pulled from that to really dive into that character of William Hill.

And I think that's why, one of the reasons, he's a brilliant actor, but one of the reasons too, why we were so drawn to his character in that show.

So we get to hear from Jasmine not just about that, but about so many other of his accomplishments over the years and the way that she continues to pay tribute to her dad through her music.

- We remember Ron Cephas Jones, a great actor who needs to be remembered.

- We are so honored to be joined now by Grammy award-winning actress and singer, Jasmine Cephas Jones here to help us honor and remember the legacy of her father, actor Ron Cephas Jones.

Jasmine, it's so great to have you on the show.

- Thank you for having me.

- Well, your dad, an actor known for many roles, one of them being This Is Us.

He was born here in New Jersey, in Paterson, had those New Jersey roots.

And I wondered first if you could tell me a little bit about your dad growing up, not just as an actor, but as your father, and what his New Jersey roots really meant to him.

- I mean, Jersey was a huge part of his childhood.

I know as a teenager he was obsessed with Harlem and also when he was in college, so he would go into the city all the time.

But Paterson, New Jersey is a big piece of my father, my grandparents owned a little store where they sold, you know, like milkshakes and ice cream and different types of food.

And so he was around the community a lot.

He had a lot of friends and cousins.

He was a part of a swim team as well.

I don't know, I think that Jersey has always been a part of my dad and he's always proud to be part of Jersey even though he's also a very like, worldly person as well.

But he'll always represent Jersey.

- Of course.

And when you were young, tell us about your dad and what you saw him doing at the time.

I know he talked about really making sure that he was there for you throughout your childhood, but made sure that he worked on his craft as well.

Talk about growing up around your dad being an actor a lot of the times on Broadway and what it was like for you.

- Well, my mom and my dad both were, both are artists and a lot of the time, like back in the day, couldn't afford a babysitter, so my dad would take me everywhere with him.

So I would go to auditions with him.

He was a part of this theater company called Labyrinth Theater Company, where Philip Seymour Hoffman was artistic director at the time and it's still going.

And I was just that theater kid.

Like I was doing my math homework in the lighting booth and I was, you know, hanging with like Liza Colón-Zayas, who is like now nominated for an Emmy in The Bear, and surrounded by some incredible actors and directors and playwrights.

And my father always said to me that the theater will always be your sanctuary.

And so, you know, he taught me that no matter what, it's all about the work, you know, always go back to your script and try your best to do really good work.

And so kind of my work ethic and analyzing the scripts I learned from him.

I learned growing up in a theater company, just growing up with theater and you know, seeing him audition and just, you know, he was very good at making me a part of his world instead of kind of being like, "This is my thing and you're too young."

It was just like, "If you hire me, you're gonna have Jasmine tag along with me," and... - And obviously that was extremely impactful on you, your life, your career, where you decided to spend your time even after that.

For people who don't know, tell us a little bit about your career, some of the things that we know you from, and also how proud your dad was of the work that you did, especially in Hamilton, the Broadway musical.

- Yeah.

I mean, I started out in the theater.

I've done plays at Atlantic Theater and one of, guest stars here and there on different shows.

And then Hamilton was kind of my big break and changed my career drastically.

And I was in the original cast for two years and started out at the Public and then to Broadway.

And then kind of, you know, from there, I did a TV show called Blindspotting for two seasons that was based off of the film that I did and was the lead of that show.

It was on Starz for a while.

And I did this show called FreeRayshawn where I won an Emmy for, and my father won an Emmy, and we both... - At the same time, right, the same year.

And he won the Emmy that time for This Is Us, right?

- Yeah, and we like broke a record for like the first father and daughter to like win in Emmy in the same year, so... - What was that like for you and him?

- That was a beautiful experience because he survived his double lung transplant a couple of months ago.

And so it was just like a couple of months ago we just didn't know what state he would be in.

And then he survived it and two months later it's like, we win these Emmys, and it's just kind of like this full circle of my father being my mentor and we become peers, you know?

It really was like that moment and I've seen him struggle and he's seen me struggle like in this business.

And so it was just this beautiful moment of, "Wow, I can't believe we are both here at the same time in this moment."

And it was emotional.

It was really, really emotional and beautiful, and I don't know, just like a moment in time that I'll just like always have.

- Yeah.

Let's talk a little bit about that.

'Cause your dad did battle serious health issues for many years of his life.

He had something called chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, right?

And like you said, he had that double lung transplant and during that time when he was going through so many health issues, he was playing that role as William Hill in This Is Us.

And for so many of us that were glued to our TV sets every week to watch was what was gonna happen in the Pearsons family next on that show, William Hill was such a big part of that.

Talk about his own health struggles and how that impacted his work as William Hill and how he was able to get through all of that during that time in his life and his career.

- I think the fact that, I mean, my dad was sick for a pretty long time, in secret, for about like eight years.

And I think the reason why he did last so long was because he was doing his art.

I think if he wasn't able to work and do the thing that he loved that brought him literally to life, I don't think he would've lasted that long.

And I think the fact that he was able to work and also play a role that impacted so many people and a role that like helped a lot of people and so many, like the love that he got from that role as well, I think, kept him going.

You know, so it was kind of, at first I was like mad 'cause I was like, "Dad, you can't keep working all the time.

Like, you have to sit down and take a rest."

And after a while I kind of realized, oh, him doing what he loves and still feeling normal and still feeling like, you know, the performer and actor that he is, was really, really important to him and I think also helped him.

- Yeah, get through that time.

- Yeah.

- I know he would often say, I heard in some interviews that he did, he would say that he realized that he was the one who defined his own success.

How do you think, how would you define your father's success?

- Oh my God.

I think my father has accomplished a lot of things, many things.

And he is an amazing and a great actor, but I mean, he was the best father, you know, he was the best father to me and the love that we shared with each other, you know, I will keep, and it keeps me going.

And so I think his most successful thing was just being a loving and supportive father, you know, and just a great human being.

You know, I think he was just the one that knew everybody's name and, you know, down to like the janitor, and was so kind to everyone, and showed me like you could be great at craft and, you know, an amazing actor, but also a great person as well.

- And lastly, I know that you worked on your first solo album was released quite recently and your dad, we hear your dad's voice on that album.

What was it like working with your dad or having your dad be a part of your first solo album and how important is that album to you today?

- Well, the album is called Phoenix.

And originally I named it that because it was supposed to represent kind of like this evolution in me musically, but then I didn't know that I was gonna go through a pretty hard couple of years.

And so the album kind of represented my life as a whole and what I was going through.

And so again, it's like kind of art comes through again, and when you need it the most.

And I asked my dad to just send me something and record something or leave me a voicemail of what he thinks of, you know, what a phoenix means to him when he sees me.

And he left me a three minute voicemail.

And so I didn't put the whole entire thing on the inter- on the album, but I took parts of it, and it's just so crazy because after he passed I had that idea to put him on the album - (Voice in song) So the legend has it, You set yourself on fire, and as the flames die down, a new bird, stronger, renewed, emerges from your ashes.

- Now it's something that I go to because I feel like he's talking to me, you know?

And it's like these words that are so powerful and just very, very my father, you know.

Just so special to him.

And it's something that I will have forever.

And anytime that I think of him or want to hear his voice, it's like, I've got this beautiful piece of his voice and music forever.

- It's something to be treasured, that is for sure.

Thank you Jasmine, so much for helping us remember your dad, Ron Cephas Jones, and the incredible work that he did and who he was, not just in front of the camera, but obviously behind the camera.

Thank you so much, Jasmine, for joining us.

- Thank you for having me, and thank you for doing this about dad, so thank you.

- Thank you, thank you.

For Steve Adubato and myself, thanks for watching.

We'll see you next time.

- [Narrator] One-On-One with Steve Adubato is a production of the Caucus Educational Corporation.

Celebrating 30 years in public broadcasting.

Funding has been provided by PSEG Foundation.

Holy Name.

Robert Wood Johnson Foundation.

Newark Board of Education.

The North Ward Center.

The New Jersey Economic Development Authority.

The Russell Berrie Foundation.

And by Seton Hall University.

Promotional support provided by The New Jersey Business & Industry Association.

And by BestofNJ.com.

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Great vision paves the way for a brighter future.

Great ambition goes places, moving onward and upward.

Great empathy finds strength in kindness and in each other, working together to create something bigger than they ever imagined.

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