- [Narrator] Funding for this edition of One-On-One with Steve Adubato has been provided by PSEG Foundation.

Holy Name.

Robert Wood Johnson Foundation.

Working for a more a healthier, more equitable New Jersey.

Newark Board of Education.

The North Ward Center.

The New Jersey Economic Development Authority.

Community FoodBank of New Jersey.

And by The Turrell Fund, a foundation serving children.

Promotional support provided by The New Jersey Business & Industry Association.

And by BestofNJ.com.

All New Jersey in one place.

- This is One-On-One.

- I'm an equal American just like you are.

- The way we change Presidents in this country is by voting.

- A quartet is already a jawn, it’s just The New Jawn.

- January 6th was not some sort of violent, crazy outlier.

- I don't care how good you are or how good you think you are, there is always something to learn.

- I mean what other country sends comedians over to embedded military to make them feel better.

- People call me 'cause they feel nobody's paying attention.

_ It’s not all about memorizing and getting information, it’s what you do with that information.

- (slowly) Start talking right now.

- That's a good question, high five.

(upbeat music) - Welcome to Remember Them.

I'm Steve Adubato with our co-anchor and executive producer Jacqui Tricarico.

Jacqui, we remember an iconic figure in public broadcasting, a great journalist, Michael Aron, in a conversation that I was able to have with Briana Vannozzi, who's the anchor of NJ Spotlight News.

I don't wanna say you're too young to remember the great Michael Aron, 'cause you remember Michael more on the back end of his career.

And I hate saying that 'cause it means I remember all of it.

Question, what makes Michael Aron so important, particularly for those of us connected to public broadcasting?

- Like you said, a staple in New Jersey news for such a long, long journey, a long career.

When he passed away, Neal Shapiro, the president and CEO of the WNET group said, "Few journalists ever garner the widespread level of respect Michael Aron achieved."

And I saw that in the time that I knew of Michael and watched his work.

How did you see that, Steve, on a personal level, knowing him all those years?

- So Michael just raised the bar for all of us.

That's what he did.

I consider myself more of a broadcaster.

Michael was a journalist in the print business first, but he was a writer, a journalist who got into broadcasting and at the core was a journalist.

He was a tough interviewer, always fair, always courteous to people, never personal, and he was a mentor to so many, including Briana.

Michael was a giant in our industry and I was proud to have worked with him many times and just be a part of the public television family that, particularly on the political broadcasting side, that Michael was the king, he was the GOAT.

- Right, and even though, sorry, he used to be semi-retired in 2020, he still was always a part of it.

And I think he had a really hard time stepping back because of his passion for the job.

- Michael was the best.

And Briana Vannozzi, our great anchor on NJ Spotlight News shares her perspective on the one and only Michael Aron.

- [Narrator] Dubbed the Dean of the State House Press Corps, Michael served as chief political correspondent for NJ Spotlight News, the news division of NJ PBS, its predecessor, NJTV News, and the former New Jersey Network.

He semi-retired in 2020, but continued to report on elections and other special coverage for NJ Spotlight News.

Throughout his career and tenure here, Michael interviewed every New Jersey governor, State Supreme Court Chief Justice, and legislative leader, plus several presidential candidates.

He covered national political conventions, trade missions abroad, and all the major political issues of the state.

Michael was awarded the Lifetime Achievement Award in New Jersey Journalism at the inaugural Burn Cane Dinner in 2021 and the League of Municipalities Distinguished Public Service Award in 2015.

Michael was an institution on his own.

He became synonymous with public TV and with journalistic integrity.

He was as gentle as he was brilliant, a mentor, a cherished friend.

He will be missed.

- We continue talking about the legacy and the impact that the great Michael Aron had with someone who knew him very well: Briana Vannozzi, our anchor, the anchor of NJ Spotlight News.

Good to see you, my friend.

- Good to see you too, Steve.

Thanks for having me on.

- You got it, listen, it's been awhile since we lost Michael, August 13th, 2024.

Michael Aron's legacy in media matters so much because...

Finish that, Briana.

- Well, there's never gonna be another one like him.

I never knew another journalist who was both revered and feared by people on both sides of the aisle: so much respect, no matter who you spoke to.

They felt that Michael was fair, that Michael heard them out, that he understood the policy, the issue, the topic, whatever it was, better sometimes than they themselves did.

And that's because Michael lived and breathed politics and New Jersey.

he loved this job I think more than anyone.

And we loved him for it.

- You know, Briana, for those of us who've known you for a long time and seen you grow into this role in that chair and everything that it means, not just for you, but for the community we serve in public media can appreciate this.

I'm a big fan of leadership.

And in leadership, it requires mentorship.

Michael was a mentor to you in so many ways.

Talk about that.

- Well, I mean, when I met Michael, I was just a cub reporter.

And I had, really, I guess, the gall at the time to ask him if I could go with him to the State House and see what that was all about: what it meant to report there, the inner workings of it all, how to cover a budget hearing.

And he, at the time, was gracious enough to take me along with him, someone who had no experience, with someone who was truly royalty when you stepped inside there because of just the relationships that he made, the fact that he was just so good at his craft and cared so much about getting it right.

And that forged what would be a friendship, really.

Michael went on to actually be my boss for a time.

He had stepped in.

I don't know if you remember this, Steve, but he had stepped in to be news director at NJN for a time when Elizabeth Christopherson left.

And this was when public media was facing, you know, its own existential crisis.

And it was not- - It could have gone either way.

I'm sorry, Michael stepped in at a very critical time.

This is pre-NJ PBS pre-NJTV.

There was a state-funded New Jersey network, and Michael was an institution there.

But he stepped in to be the news director.

- He stepped in to be the news director, had no desire, by the way.

I don't know if anyone even knows this.

He had no desire to do that role.

He wanted to be on the beat doing his reporting at the State House.

In fact, he would split his time going from being news director to running over to the State House, covering hearings, covering whatever press conference was going on with Chris Christie, and then come back and do all of his meetings as news director.

Anyway, that said, you know, he understood that you only got better by learning from folks who knew what they were doing, and that you needed someone to help guide you.

And he was gracious enough, like I said, to take that time with me and folks who showed interest.

I think he really loved that someone young also loved this state and loved covering it.

And for him, I think that was a little bit energizing, in a way, to find someone who had as much of a passion as he did.

And then he went on, we went our separate ways, we came back together here at, it was then NJTV, now we're NJ PBS, and our friendship only continued, especially during a time when I had a health issue: I had a car accident where I was sidelined for about two years.

And I never really shared this with anyone, actually, but Michael, at the time, was taping his two public affairs shows, "Reporters Roundtable" and "On the Record" at that time, at a studio in Bordentown, which is where I'm from.

And I had moved home with my family while I was recovering from a pretty bad head injury.

And Michael would stop over after taping on Fridays.

And I was not well at all.

I really couldn't talk much.

I couldn't do much.

And he would bring his "New York Times" and sit on my couch and keep me company.

And it makes me very emotional to think about it now because he didn't need to do that.

You know, he would call and check in on me, but it was important for him to be there with me, even if we couldn't talk, just to have his presence with me, to know that he was still rooting for me and still in my corner.

And he would tell, me when I would question whether or not I'd ever be able to get back to this job, that I still had a lot of stories left to tell, and that everything would still be there waiting for me when I got back, and- - it was.

- What did that mean?

- I mean, someone like Michael right, who, it's Michael Aron, the dean of the press corps.

The fact that he believed in me so much, I had confidence and faith in myself.

But, you know, when you're young and you really have no idea what the future holds, someone like that having that vote of confidence is what can help you turn the corner.

And I knew that Michael believed in me.

And if he felt that I had, you know, the chutzpah, then I did.

And he was very proud when I came back to work.

And he was very proud when I got in the anchor seat.

And he never stopped believing in me.

And that has made really all the difference.

- You know, for those of us who are a part of the public broadcasting family, whether NJ Spotlight News or PBS overall or our private not-for-profit production company affiliated with public broadcasting, Michael was always the the gold standard for all of us.

I'm curious about this, the gold standard as an interviewer, as a reporter, a great journalist, a great writer, Mike wasn't a great writer, interviewing... every governor throughout his broadcast career.

How do you think Michael was able to do that so well and not have governors so peeved at him that they would deny access to him even though he asked the really tough questions?

- It comes down to two things.

There was no way not to love him.

He just had that type of charisma, that personality, those soft skills that you can't quite put a finger on.

You know, you meet someone, why do you like them?

Sometimes you can't always have a tangible reason, you just do.

Michael had that.

And then, to boot, he was ridiculously sharp and had this encyclopedia-like memory of every political event and person and piece of New Jersey culture and history that no one could match, quite frankly.

So even if you found a reason not to like him on a personal level, you still respected him because he knew his stuff.

I mean, Michael never stopped doing his homework.

I think that was something that always spoke to me, that when he was doing his public affairs shows, and you know how much prep goes into doing an interview, how much research you need to do on issues, he never felt like he was above that or too big for it, where he, you know, I've been covering this for 30 years, I've been covering this for 40 years, I'm good.

No, I mean, Michael was always sort of in the trenches, so to speak, and would stick around at the gaggles and stick around at the State House, you know, be among the last leaving, even when, you know, he didn't need to be doing that.

But it meant a lot to him to know that he had gotten every piece of information he could.

And I think that just spoke to his character and frankly just his work ethic.

And every politician wanted him to interview them, because they knew they'd get a fair shake.

But they also knew that their credibility would go up if Michael wanted to put them on his show and give them a platform, that it meant they had, you know, they had something worth talking about.

- Briana, thank you.

Again, one of the great things about Michael is that he never went on what I like to call autopilot, meaning, as Briana said, I've done this long enough, I don't need to prep.

As Briana said so well, always worked harder than he needed to.

And it showed on the air and it showed in his work.

And for those of us who are part of this public broadcasting community, we'll continue to remember him, honor him, and his legacy lives on in great journalists like Briana Vannozzi.

Briana, thank you, my friend.

- Thanks, Steve.

It's an honor.

You know any chance I get to talk about Michael, I love to.

- You got it.

Stay with us, we'll be right back.

- [Narrator] To watch more One on One with Steve Adubato find us online and follow us on Social media.

- Shifting gears here, we remember Alan Rosenthal, who was the director of the Eagleton Institute of Politics at Rutgers University, one of the country's top experts when it comes to the legislative branch of government.

My professor at the Eagleton Institute when I was there, a mentor of mine and so many others, including Debbie Walsh, who I talked to here.

Jacqui, we did that interview.

What is most memorable for you that people should be looking out for as it relates to Debbie Walsh talking about her colleague and mentor, Dr.

Professor Alan Rosenthal?

- We get to hear from her about some of the really important things that he did and his legacy, but something that you only touched upon with her a little bit.

It's just how funny he was as a person.

And I found this really interesting fact as I was doing more research on Dr. Rosenthal, that he was actually a guest clown for the Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey Circus.

Did you know that?

- I did, because he had clown stuff in his office all the time.

- He loved clowns and he, and you know, that was a big part of his life.

And he was such a funny guy that seemed, I just loved that little fact about him.

- He had a very dry, wry sense of humor, never took himself seriously, but a great scholar, a great teacher, a friend, and a mentor.

And so we talked to Debbie Walsh, who is in fact the director of the American Women in Politics Center at Rutgers University.

Debbie tied to Eagleton for Eagleton Institute of Politics.

For many of us who were fortunate enough to become fellows at Eagleton, graduate from Eagleton.

And because we're fascinated by public policy and politics, if you were fortunate enough to meet, work with, be taught by, be next to Alan Rosenthal, you're better for it.

And Debbie Walsh shares that perspective about one of the great ones, Alan Rosenthal.

- Talking about the great Alan Rosenthal with Debbie Walsh, director of the Center for American Women and Politics at Rutgers University.

Debbie, good to see you.

- Nice to see you, Steve.

- Can we even make up an Alan Rosenthal if there wasn't really an Alan Rosenthal?

- He was one of those larger than life characters, right?

That I think come along in all of our lifetimes once and somebody that we miss all the time, and particularly in this moment.

- So how was Rosenthal, my professor, your professor and mentor, kept me at Eagleton many times when I was this far from failing out, and kept me going through my doctoral work when I wanted to quit.

And he just was that kind of person.

How was Rosenthal so smart and so funny?

- Well, those two things are not mutually exclusive, but I knew him both as a colleague and as a professor.

And before I interacted with Alan as a faculty member, I only thought about government as, frankly, being the federal government and Congress.

And Alan Rosenthal taught us all that states matter, and that, in fact, they are the place where so much action happens in politics and where so much policy is made that affects everybody's lives and that everybody should be paying more attention to it.

And so, as a student, suddenly, my eyes were opened to state government.

And Trenton was the little laboratory that we all worked in.

But he was working in the laboratory of all 50 states.

And then, when I came to the Center for American Women and Politics, I really saw how he shaped the early agenda of CAWP because we focused on state legislatures.

It was the highest level of office with a substantial concentration of women.

But Alan really inspired us to say, "Focus on this level, it matters.

It matters in a big way."

- Debbie, speaking about legislatures mattering and the legislative branch mattering, we're taping in 2025, things are playing out on the national level in a very interesting and, according to many, concerning fashion.

But I'm gonna ask it this way.

What do you think Alan Rosenthal would say and think about the role of the United States Congress, the legislative branch of government, one of the three branches, last time I checked the Constitution, executive, legislative, and judicial branch.

What do you think he would say to those in the legislative branch of government about their responsibility at this critical point in America's history?

- Alan was a scholar of legislatures.

He knew both the federal legislature and state legislatures.

And he understood the concept of checks and balances and the role that legislatures must play and that they are an equal partner in government.

And that is what he would be reminding us of now.

And not just you and me, Steve, and not his students, but also trying to remind the members of the federal legislature, as well as the executive branch and the judicial branch, that these were three equal partners in the making of policy.

And I think he would be looking at what is happening right now and shaking his head and wondering when the legislative branch was going to take responsibility and play its role in the making of policy and the watchdog role that it needs to play as that check on the executive branch.

- So there are some watching right now who are saying, "Well, Debbie Walsh is an academic.

She's at Rutgers.

Academia, those on the left, the woke academic world."

Go back to Alan Rosenthal.

Would Rosenthal say that because he was a D or an R, a conservative or a liberal, or because he cared deeply about this country?

- Alan was not someone you could pigeonhole into a party.

I think he really prided himself on being independent.

- Absolutely.

- And I think that's reflected in many ways in how he was relied upon by members of both parties in the legislature.

He was the deciding vote on multiple times in the redistricting process, both for New Jersey's congressional redistricting, and then also in its state legislative redistricting.

- Debbie, Debbie, hold that point right there.

Hold that point.

- Sure.

- I'm gonna explain what Debbie's saying for those who are not like some of us who are obsessed with the inner workings of government.

Every X number of years, 10 years, right, there's a census, population shift, in the state, in the nation.

There is a committee that sets up the districts, five Ds, five Democrats, five Republicans.

And you can imagine what five Democrats and five Republicans would do every 10 years.

They couldn't come to an agreement.

There would be a stalemate.

Alan Rosenthal was the person selected by the Democrats and the Republicans to be that independent voice and deciding vote.

Pick it up from there, Debbie Walsh.

- So he really was seen on both sides of the aisle as somebody who could be an arbiter, who could see past the partisan differences and get to the truth and come to a solution that might not please everybody, but was the compromised decision.

So he really understood the concept of bipartisanship.

And I think where he would be coming out now on this issue would not be about the democratic side versus the republican side, but it would be about the institution.

He was an institutionalist at his core and believed in these institutions.

- Every time I walked into Alan Rosenthal's office for mentoring and coaching and sometimes scolding, I was fascinated by his office.

Describe Dr. Alan Rosenthal's, why are you laughing?

You know what I'm talking about.

What kind of, and by the way, why would he have that white lab coat hanging there all the time?

What was all the Rosenthal stuff in the office about?

- Well, he was a doctor, right?

- Yes.

(laughs) - So he had his lab coat.

He loved the Muppets, so there was a Miss Piggy pin on his lab coat.

He was famous for wearing Hawaiian shirts.

- Yes.

- So he had a framed Hawaiian shirt hanging over the mantelpiece in his office.

There was a bronzed cow patty from a cow patty throwing contest in, I think, it was in Montana or Wyoming, that was also framed in his office.

He would go around from state to state to state legislatures.

- Collect stuff.

- He was somebody who really believed in strengthening state legislatures.

He wrote a series of books on that.

- Sure did.

- He was the reason that there is a national conference for state legislatures.

He was about the professionalization of state legislatures.

And he was a believer in the poke and soak method of research, going into those legislatures, spending time with them, and really getting into the nitty-gritty of those.

Because at his core, Steve, and you knew this, he loved legislators.

He thought the world of them.

Sometimes, when we would all see some bad in them, he would always see the good in them.

- And last thing I'll say is this.

When I decided to run for the state legislature, just two years out of Eagleton, I was 24, and the first person I spoke to and asked about it was Alan Rosenthal.

And he said, "You barely got out of this place.

What makes you think you'd be a good state legislator?"

And was always there- - Yup.

- For advice and mentoring and friendship.

And so, Debbie, thank you because you knew him better than most.

And I hope that those watching right now, who never had the honor and the opportunity to meet Alan Rosenthal, research who he was and why he mattered.

Debbie, I can't thank you and the team at Eagleton and Rutgers enough for joining us and honoring our friend, Alan Rosenthal.

Thank you, Debbie.

- Thanks for remembering him, Steve.

- It's our honor.

For my colleague, Jacqui Tricarico, our team at "Remember Them" and "One-on-one," we remember the great, iconic, very funny and smart Alan Rosenthal.

- [Narrator] One-On-One with Steve Adubato is a production of the Caucus Educational Corporation.

Funding has been provided by PSEG Foundation.

Holy Name.

Robert Wood Johnson Foundation.

Newark Board of Education.

The North Ward Center.

The New Jersey Economic Development Authority.

Community FoodBank of New Jersey.

And by The Turrell Fund, a foundation serving children.

Promotional support provided by The New Jersey Business & Industry Association.

And by BestofNJ.com.