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- This is One-On-One.

- I'm an equal American just like you are.

- The way we change presidents in this country is by voting.

- I'’m hopeful that this is the beginning to accountability.

- Life without dance is boring.

- I don't care how good you are or how good you think you are, there is always something to learn.

- I did do the finale, and guess where my trailer was?

A block away from my apartment, it couldn'’t have been better!

- People call me 'cause they feel nobody's paying attention.

-_ It'’s not all about memorizing and getting information, it'’s what you do with that information.

- (slowly) Start talking right now.

- That's a good question, high five.

(upbeat music) Welcome to "Remember Them," Steve Adubato with my colleague and co-anchor Jacqui Tricarico.

Jacqui, today we kick off "Remember Them" with an in-depth interview we did with Rick Thigpen who is Vice President of Corporate Citizen at PSEG, also a historian who understands and knows military leadership.

Two people you see.

Over this shoulder is General Colin Powell we talked about, who does have a New Jersey connection.

Born in the Bronx for the New Jersey connection.

And Norman Schwarzkopf.

Did you know his dad, Norman Schwarzkopf, was the head of the New Jersey State Police, Jacqui?

Did you know that?

- I actually did know that.

And Rick gets into that great detail about Norman Schwarzkopf, but also talks a little bit about other New Jersey military leaders who matter, Raymond Odierno and Peter Pace, both out of New Jersey, and Rick gives us some incite and details about both of them and why they matter to New Jersey, why they matter to the country.

And on the back end of that, we're gonna hear him then talk more about Colin Powell.

- Yeah, and let me just say this.

The Colin Powell for me, and I've often disclosed I do a whole series of leadership seminars and I coach folks in leadership and communication, and (sighs) General Powell, his life, his legacy, his leadership, flaws and all, including his testimony before the United Nations that there were in fact weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, which was incorrect, which he owned, which he said, "I was wrong," he didn't blame the president at the time, he didn't blame the intelligence officials, he took responsibility, I often use him as a case study of great leadership.

Not perfect leadership, but great leadership, the kind of leader that takes responsibility.

And that's what we talk about with, with Rick Thigpen as well.

But again, I guess his family was from...

Were they from Jamaica, Jacqui?

- Yeah.

- I'm pretty sure.

- Yeah, and then he grew up in the Bronx.

But there is so many New Jersey connections with him and there is a elementary school named after him in Union City, the Colin Powell Elementary School.

But also, he started a nonprofit with a couple of past presidents as well.

It's called America's Promise.

He's the founding chairman of that nonprofit, and it has roots here in New Jersey.

It's an important organization.

And I know that he was here in New Jersey, and you had a chance to interview him.

This is many years ago, but you had the chance to interview him about that organization and why volunteerism and philanthropy matter so much to him and matters in New Jersey.

- In fact, I know they're gonna show a picture of that interview I do with him.

It's got the wagon, and I think it says America's Promise.

It was one of the highlights of my career as a broadcaster, just speaking to the great General Colin Powell.

So again, get a context of that.

But also, Schwarzkopf, I mean, listen, he led one of the most important war efforts.

War's never good, but he was the military leader at a critical time in our nation.

Check out the conversation about Schwarzkopf, the conversation about General Powell.

That's Jacqui, this is Steve, and this is "Remember Them."

- Steve Adubato here.

We welcome back Rick Thigpen, Senior Vice President of Corporate Citizenship at PSEG.

We're not talking energy here.

We are talking military history.

Rick has been doing a series of interviews with us on important figures.

New Jersey-based and other leaders, part of a powering equity and social justice initiative powered by Rick and his colleagues.

Today, we focus on general Norman Schwarzkopf.

Born in Trenton, New Jersey, Rick?

- Born in Trenton, New Jersey.

The grandson of a German immigrant.

- Tell us a little bit.

We'll show some pictures, we'll show some pictures of the general.

Track his history back to the state and his international implications as a military leader.

- Well, he's the grandson of German immigrants.

As you mentioned, a native of great Trenton, New Jersey.

Just reminded everybody how much of an impact New Jersey continues to have on American history.

His father was the first superintendent of the state police.

And in that capacity was the lead investigator in the infamous or famous Lindbergh kidnapping.

- Lindbergh trial.

Lindbergh trial, where his child was kidnapped and it was taken place in the Flemington courthouse, I believe in 1932.

- That's right.

- He was also a Colonel in the United States army.

And he passed that onto his son, who we now know became a four-star general, general Norman Schwarzkopf, who's famous to us all for Operation Desert Storm.

At the time of the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait, he was the commander of the United States central command, which involved that part of the world.

And in that capacity, he coordinated all of the land operations for the over 250,000 U.S. troops involved in Operation Desert Storm.

We all know that was a successful military operation.

It earned him the Presidential Medal of Freedom.

It earned him enormous popularity and fame as successful military leaders frequently do, I can just mention a few like general Eisenhower would be the most recent example of that.

And he was a very successful leader.

He made a case that a successful military leader needs character and strategy.

And if you have to do without one do without the strategy.

So he's someone we admire, they called him Stormin' Norman.

He comes from New Jersey.

He made a meaningful impact on our country's history and that he was a successful leader of a very big military operation.

And he's someone we all know.

He retired with the Presidential Medal of Freedom and yet another New Jerseyan who left their mark on the United States of America and arguably on the globe.

And Steve, I will jump in and just mention two other names very quickly.

One is general Ray Odierno from Rockaway, New Jersey, a four-star general, and commander of the U.S. Army's fourth infantry division that captured Saddam Hussein at that time, he later became the Army Chief of Staff.

Very successful gentleman from Rockaway.

And then there's general Peter Pace from Teaneck, New Jersey.

Another four-star general who became Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

Another one who had enormous impact on our country.

is military leadership in any way, significantly different from leadership in other arenas that are not military centric.

- Well, military leadership certainly requires enormous discipline and a commitment to your country.

Mikie Sherrill for instance, was in the first graduating class in the Navy where women were eligible for combat, she's a little bit part of history.

general Odierno was the grandson of Italian immigrants.

general Pace was the son of Italian immigrants.

So the military is also part of that great American melting pot, where people no matter where you come from, have a chance to prove yourself as an American to make a great contribution in the form of public service.

It does instill discipline.

It instills commitment to your country.

It instills a sense of paying attention to what's right and what's wrong.

And so arguably, a military training is one of the greatest ways to serve your country, and it can clearly prepare you for public service.

We all know that some military leaders are not appropriate for public service, but many have shown that they are.

And our country has a long line of military leaders.

You know, a higher elected office, I used general Eisenhower, but you can go back to general Washington, to general Andrew Jackson, to general William Henry Harrison to general Zachary Taylor, and none of us could ever forget general Grant.

So our country has a long history of military leaders serving in high elected office.

It is a great way for people to serve their country.

And many of these people that I've talked about today from New Jersey have an immigrant background.

And I think it's just a fantastic story of why we are the greatest nation on this earth, Steve.

So I just appreciate the opportunity to talk about it.

I think the more we talk about it, the more we come together and recognize that, Steve, you come from a different background than I do, but that's why this is a great country because we can work together to make America better by contributing in our respective fashions.

- Absolutely right.

And by the way, our great producers behind the scenes, will show pictures of all these different people and try to bring their faces and some of their experiences to life.

But we encourage you as we put the names of those leaders up to do your own research and find out more.

Hey, we cannot thank you enough for putting military leadership and perspective, particularly those who come from Jersey as we continue to engage in powering equity and social justice.

Thank you, Rick.

- And Steve let me close on one high note.

I met general Powell at Seton Hall University when he came to speak.

He's the only non New Jerseyan we talked about, but he has been to New Jersey and I had a great experience with him at Seton Hall, he was such a gentleman, a thoughtful man, a world leader.

It was just remarkable to meet him.

- Yeah, absolutely.

And meeting general Powell for me when he was promoting America's Promise, talking about volunteerism, was an extraordinary opportunity as well, I was in awe of his presence.

- Well, he is such an extraordinary story Steve.

He's a gentleman who comes, he's the child of Jamaican immigrants.

Born in Harlem, raised in the south Bronx, went to New York City public schools and city college.

And rose up to be a dedicated American public servant.

He spent a life in the military, an incredibly successful life in the military.

And really helped shape America's destiny into the 21st century.

And he really comes from a very common background.

He's just another example of how the greatness of our country comes from all different sources.

And how America is so special by having people who come from all over the world, come here to contribute.

And our country is truly a better place because of General Powell.

The first African-American chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

The first African-American National Security Advisor.

And I did that in reverse order.

As National Security Advisor under Ronald Reagan, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff under George Bush the father.

He was the youngest Chairman of the Joint Chiefs and the first African-American to be Chairman of the Joint Chiefs.

So really remarkable.

And during his tenure the cold war ended, Operation Desert Storm happened, the invasion of Panama happened, the Somalia crisis happened, the Bosnian War happened.

So he really had a unique opportunity to contribute to his country through public service.

And America is a better place because of that son of Jamaican immigrants.

- Let me follow up on this.

By the way, check out General Powell's history, as it relates to his commitment to urban education, particularly in the Bronx and the raising of money, the supporting of education there, and the role of so many.

- America's Promise.

- What's it called again?

- America's Promise was the non-profit he formed dedicated to helping at-risk youth in America.

So, you know, just another way of giving back to the country that had done so much for him.

- Yeah, but there's another piece Rick.

And I always want to touch on this.

As a student of leadership as a teacher leadership, I've been moved by General Powell.

I learned so much from him.

When he gave testimony before the United Nations and mistakenly said that there were "Weapons of mass destruction in Iraq," which was the premise for us going into war.

And later on said it was the greatest regret of his life.

What did it say Rick, about General Powell?

And yes, there was devastation, there was death.

The war may have been unnecessary depending upon how you look at it.

But he said it was my mistake.

I was wrong.

I should have questioned more.

I should not have said that.

What does that say about General Powell's integrity?

- And character, it says enormous amounts.

I'll say two things.

First off, I just recited his military, his very distinguished military career.

But his public service didn't end there.

And as you pointed out, he was also the first African-American to be made Secretary of State of the United States.

And in that capacity, the invasion of Iraq was, as well as Afghanistan happened during his tenure.

And like you said, he looked back at what, at the role he played with deep regret.

As we all know today, not enough public servants are willing to admit when they're wrong and tell the people that they made a mistake, so that we could do better next time.

And to me, it's something to be admired because we all make mistakes.

The willingness to admit it, the willingness to learn from it showed just his love of his country and the depth of his character.

Something that we should all want in our public servants.

And it shows that those characteristics and traits, which we all admire can come from all different types of people who come from all different types of places.

And he's just someone who we should all remember as a role model as to what makes America great.

- Could Colin Powell have been President of the United States?

- Well, that's a, there's two ways to look at that.

By his enormous contributions and-- - By his record.

- He deserved, he was worthy of being considered to be president.

As I mentioned to you, and I remember as a young man, he was an anomaly in my own little world and that he was, he was African-American but promoted by Republican politicians.

First, Ronald Reagan, then George H. W. Bush, then George Bush the son.

And he had a tough political puzzle to solve, to be a African American leader and get the Republican nomination for president.

So politics aside, his life of public service, his dedication to his country certainly made him qualify to be considered as President of the United States, but it just, it was not in the cards for him politically.

Real quick on this final question on General Powell.

What did General Powell's life and legacy mean to all younger people, but disproportionately young people of color from urban areas?

What did it mean to them in terms of what was potentially possible in this nation?

- Well, it shows that everything is possible in this great nation.

It shows that while the color of your skin may influence your life, it does not prevent you from making enormous contributions to this country.

And it does not prevent you from loving America and helping make America a better and greater country.

He's a role model for all of us.

I remember him as a young man thinking, I never thought that was possible.

He's Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

The highest military officer in the United States of America.

And there he was a man with capacity, competence, intellects, leadership, and there he was.

And then he even doubled down on it by becoming the Secretary of State.

So it shows what a great country we have.

It shows why our country is great.

We should not forget that he is the son of immigrants.

And he came to this country and helped make it a better place.

And that's really one of the reasons America is the special place and the greatest country on this earth.

Colin Powell once remind us of that.

- [Narrator] To watch more One on One with Steve Adubato find us online and follow us on Social media.

So Jacqui, "Remember Them" continues.

We just looked at General Schwarzkopf and General Powell and some other military leaders.

I wanna thank our good friend Rick Thigpen for that.

Shifting gears dramatically, talk about an extraordinary leader, the late congressman Donald Payne.

I had a chance to sit down with his son Congressman Payne, who took, Donald Payne Jr., who took his seat in congress, representing the city of Newark and other communities.

Congressman Payne, wow, I mean, born and raised in the city of Newark, Barringer High School, actually went to high school with my dad, and Mayor Baraka, who we also feature in "Remember Them."

A giant of a leader in congress in the United States.

What'd you pick up from this?

- Right, and obviously just a leader in Newark.

And I know when Donald Payne did win his election to congress in 1988, that was when Peter Rodino stepped down.

And I know you have a lot of connections to Peter Rodino, and he was, him and Donald Payne were both really important people in your life at a young age and you getting into politics as well.

So I wanted to know a little bit more about your relationship with both of them and just how things shifted in Newark when Donald Payne took over.

- For those who don't know Peter Rodino, we're running up right up against this clip, so I'm gonna set this up quickly, Pete Rodino, congressman from Newark, Italian-American.

For me as an Italian-American, Italian-American kid growing up in Newark in the same neighborhood, he was a giant.

He was someone who worked.

He also headed up the Nixon impeachment proceedings, the Watergate hearings.

He was the leader there.

- I'm sorry to cut you off, Steve.

You did an amazing interview with him many, many years ago that we still have that's gonna be part of our "Remember Them" series as well coming up in the next couple of months.

- But Donald Payne kept running against him, kept losing, and finally the district had changed, the demographics had changed.

More and more African-Americans, Latinos.

It was time for change.

It was time for Rodino to step down.

Donald Payne took that seat in congress and made a huge difference.

And his son, Donald Payne, Congressman Donald Payne Jr. tells all about his dad in this series, "Remember Them."

For Jacqui, for myself, we won't see you on the backend.

This is the congressman talking about his dad.

- We're honored to be joined by United States congressmen, Donald Payne Jr.

The 10th congressional district, Congressman, good to see you.

- Good to see you.

- This is part of a special series we're doing that honors African-American leaders not only in the state of New Jersey, but across the nation, some of whom are still with us.

Some are gone, but not forgotten if you will.

And one of them, and I said this to the congressmen in a previous interview, at the top of that list is his dad, his late father, United States, congressmen, Donald Payne.

I'm gonna get this right Donald Payne, senior.

The first African-American to represent the state of New Jersey in the United States Congress, correct congressmen?

- Yes, that's correct.

- Chairman of the congressional black caucus from 1995 to 97.

He expanded educational opportunities making college more affordable through the College Opportunity Act in 1991, Urban Schools America Act in 1993.

Let me ask you this as we show some pictures of you and your dad, why, first of all, he replaced an icon in the United States, Congressman Peter W. Rodino who chaired the Watergate impeachment proceedings against disgraced president Richard Nixon, your dad becoming a member of Congress in New Jersey, so important for so many reasons, what did it mean to you congressman?

- Well, Steve, it was quite an accomplishment for a man that had worked so hard for people all of his life.

You mentioned that he's the first African-American Congressman from the state New Jersey.

He was also the first African-American to preside over the presidency of the YMCAs of the Americas.

And he was the youngest at 33, I believe he was.

And so, I mean, you know, he just had a natural care about people and making their lives better.

So I was able to watch this process that he originally thought about running in 1972.

He finally decided to run in 1980.

- That's right.

- And he was unsuccessful.

And he then ran again in '86, once again was unsuccessful.

But in 1988, he was able to win.

Steve, it was a real lesson in my life about watching someone that had a goal, do what they could do to attain it, not be successful, pull back, look at what they did and move forward again.

So it was really my first true example of watching someone have a goal and doing everything to attain it.

And it was such a life lesson that was really amazing for me.

And I'll never forget that process.

- And you know congressmen, you and I grew up in similar homes in certain ways and very different homes and in other ways but our dads were not only friends, but interacted with each other in the political arena.

They were classmates at Barringer high school back in the day, really back in the day.

And I used to hear about your dad in our home all the time and the kind of campaign he ran again and again, to win that congressional seat, the kind of Congressman he was.

But I'm curious about from your perspective is, his commitment to public service to making a difference, particularly at that time when it was so incredibly difficult for African-American people who chose to be in politics in a white, older male dominated world, beyond persistence and perseverance, what did he teach you about the importance of service?

- That there was nothing greater than the serve your fellow man, and that if you're in the position to make the quality of someone's life better, then it's your obligation to do it.

And that's the model that I followed in following him into public service.

He was such a great role model, Steve, that why wouldn't I want to try to be like him and do the things that I saw him do because I saw the outcomes, I saw the difference that it made in people's lives.

And so I just wanted to try to continue to do those things that I saw him do, because I know what it has meant to different people.

And the people that, you know, on his passing came up to me.

And the stories that they shared with me were just, you know so rewarding and, you know, just really gave me a consoling feeling at a time where I was very devastated.

During that time Steve, when he passed, you know, you naturally receive condolence letters from, you know, dignitaries and people all over the world for him because of his work.

I got a letter from the president of South Sudan.

- He was very involved in Africa, very involved in that region, very.

- Very much so.

And it really epitomized for me in a nutshell, the work that he had done and what he meant to people, you know, you got the normal, you know my apologies, sorry to say.

And then his PS was, if it was not for your father, my country would not exist.

And that was, that really kind of wrapped it up in a nutshell for me.

- Congressman Donald Payne Senior, a giant in Congress in New Jersey and the nation.

I wanna thank you so much, Congressman not just for your service, but also sharing your perspective on your father and the great impact he's had on so many.

Thank you, Congressman.

- Thank you.

I'm Steve Adubato, stay with us.

We thank you so much for watching, we'’ll see you next time.

- [Narrator] One on One with Steve Adubato has been a production of the Caucus Educational Corporation.

Funding has been provided by NJM Insurance Group.

Hackensack Meridian Health.

The New Jersey Education Association.

Horizon Blue Cross Blue Shield of New Jersey.

Prudential Financial.

Kean University.

And by New Jersey Sharing Network.

Promotional support provided by New Jersey Globe.

And by New Jersey Monthly.

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Let'’s end this pandemic together and help all children get back to being kids.

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