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- This is One-On-One.

- I'm an equal American just like you are.

- The way we change Presidents in this country is by voting.

- A quartet is already a jawn, it'’s just The New Jawn.

- January 6th was not some sort of violent, crazy outlier.

- I don't care how good you are or how good you think you are, there is always something to learn.

- I mean what other country sends comedians over to embedded military to make them feel better.

- People call me 'cause they feel nobody's paying attention.

-_ It'’s not all about memorizing and getting information, it'’s what you do with that information.

- (slowly) Start talking right now.

- That's a good question, high five.

(upbeat music) - Hi, everyone, Steve Adubato for "Remember Them" with my colleague, the leader of our effort, Jacqui Tricarico, our executive producer and co-anchor.

We kick off today with an extraordinary interview with an amazing, I know those words are overused, but with a woman by the name of Shirley Satterfield, resident scholar of The Paul Robeson House in Princeton.

Paul Robeson, right behind me, an iconic, important figure.

What was the biggest takeaway for you from the interview with Ms. Satterfield?

- Well, yeah, Robeson really is known as the 20th century Renaissance man and just so many of his accomplishments.

I mean, he was an amazing actor and singer when he really started his career, but even back here in New Jersey at Rutgers, he was an all-American athlete, so great at football.

He was class valedictorian at Rutgers, went back to Rutgers many times for talks with the students there.

I know there's a building there named after him.

And, you know, he had so many career highlights after that as well and just had his hand in so many things.

And then it's sad to know that things kind of took a turn later on in his life, being exiled from the United States because, you know, there were people saying or some things that he said that could have been misconstrued.

I don't know, Steve, what do you think about all that.

- Let me try to put this in perspective.

Paul Robeson got screwed by this country.

There's no other way around it.

Things that he said, as Jacqui referred to, it's called free speech.

There was a time in the 1950s, look up senator Joe McCarthy, we will not be remembering Senator McCarthy, the Red Scare, meaning there was a communist under every rock.

So if you were accused of being a communist, if you were believed to be a communist sympathizer, which was in fact how Paul Robeson was characterized, he lost his career, he lost his livelihood, he lost his gigs.

He couldn't work in this country.

He couldn't be in this country.

Why?

A great actor, a great athlete, a great scholar, a great writer, an activist, because the United States, our cultural institutions including those in the entertainment industry decided that he couldn't be affiliated with because of a period in our time where communism or being perceived to be a sympathizer of communism would put you on a blacklist, had nothing to do with color Blacklist.

- Yeah, exiled for over five years.

- It's a disgrace, but Ms. Satterfield, Shirley Satterfield is, first of all, an amazing person in and of herself, but when she talks about Robeson, you can see that she talks about him with compassion and empathy and an understanding that very few of us could have given her history.

So before we talk about on the second half Lou Costello of Abbott and Costello, this is an important interview with Shirley Satterfield about the extraordinary iconic, and, as Jacqui said, Renaissance man, a great American, Paul Robeson.

- (Singing) Old Man River.

That old Man River... - (Narrator) Born in Princeton in 1898, the son of an escaped slave, Paul Robeson graduated from Somerville High School and then attended Rutgers.

Despite opposition as one of the school's first African-American students, he excelled in four sports, was twice named an all-American in football and graduated class valedictorian.

After earning a law degree from Columbia University, he pursued a performing arts career.

Internationally acclaimed as a scholar, athlete, orator, actor and concert singer, he was an uncompromising advocate for the full equality of black Americans.

Although criticized for his political activism, he never regretted being a champion for causes for the disadvantaged.

His remarkable accomplishments are a testimonial to his great character and fortitude, and we are proud to call Paul Robeson, our Hall of Famer.

- (Singing)He just keeps rolling along!

- We're now joined by Ms. Shirley Satterfield, who is the historian at the Paul Robeson House of Princeton.

Ms. Satterfield, it's an honor to have you with us.

- Thank you for asking me to be here.

the Paul Robeson House in Princeton.

What is it and why is it?

- Paul Robeson was born in a house on the corner of Witherspoon and Green Street in Princeton.

His father came here.

He was a runaway slave from Martin County, North Carolina.

He went to Lincoln University, he became a pastor and he came to Princeton, and lived in that house because it became a parsonage for ministers.

So he was born in the house on April 9th, 1898.

The house was occupied by a woman who lived there for quite a while and we wanted to get it back to Witherspoon Street Presbyterian Church.

So we asked if we could have the house it is being renovated at this time.

Hopefully it'll be finished by April.

So the reason it's important to us is because it's a noted home where Paul Robeson was born.

And we are going to have it as a beacon in Princeton, New Jersey, in the Witherspoon Jackson Community and for Princeton, and to be an educational center, a learning center, and a place where people can come to learn about the great, Paul Robeson.

And we have many activities coming up in April because April would be his 125th birthday.

So were collab- - Is that right?

- Yep, so we're collaborating with a group of organizations the Paul Robeson House of Princeton, the Paul Robeson House of Philadelphia, the Paul Robeson Institute at Raritan Valley Community College.

And a group of people called the Black Quakers 'cause his mother was Quaker.

- Ms. Satterfield, let me ask you this.

In the introduction, Jacqui Tricarico, my colleague and I talked about Paul Robeson.

Two-time all-American football player at Rutgers, Class valedictorian at Rutgers, law degree from Columbia, three years of pro football.

The great acting career on Broadway, played Othello, the longest William Shakespeare play in Broadway's history, on and on his work in the UK as an extraordinary performer.

Why don't more people know about the great, Paul Robeson?

- Because more people probably don't read because people don't know the history.

I know when I first started, I started tours of Princeton.

I'm the historian of the African American community.

I started tours in 1997.

I was really floored and surprised at the number of people who never heard of Paul Robeson, University students who never heard of Paul Robeson.

So that was my duty to let people know there are not six sites in Princeton dedicated to Paul Robeson other than his house.

So we're bringing it out along with the other organizations as to how great this man is who is called Princeton's native son, and also called the tallest tree in the forest.

- You know, as I listened to you, Ms. Satterfield, I realize there are so many connections to Paul Robeson and we'll talk about his activism in just a moment.

But there's also a connection to Albert Einstein.

Put that in perspective, please.

- Okay.

When Paul Robeson came back to Princeton and one time, he came back to to sing at McCarter Theater, he was not able to stay anywhere in Princeton other in this community.

- Because of racism.

- It was racism, it was white supremacy, it was Jim Crowism, it was separation.

And I lived through the times of the separation 'cause I went to Witherspoon school for colored children.

The same school that Paul Robeson went to, but a different building.

- So called separate, but equal, declared unconstitutional.

- That is correct.

- And the Brown versus Board of Education decision in 1958, I think.

But go ahead.

- Yes, so Paul came to Princeton, he connected with Albert Einstein because Albert Einstein took him in because he had nowhere else to stay other than if he wanted to stay with his relatives here in this community.

And Paul Robeson's father, William Drew Robeson also went to Lincoln University.

That was a connection.

So when Albert Einstein came to Princeton, he saw how we were treated in this community.

He used to come to our community, sit on our porches, talk with us.

My mother worked for the Institute for Advance study.

She took me to work with her.

Einstein used to take me for walks.

Of course, I was too little to understand who he was.

But the connection with Einstein and Paul Robeson was a connection of taking of, understanding that people have to be respected no matter whether you're Black, no matter whether you're Jewish, that all people should be respected.

That's how they got connected.

- Ms. Satterfield, lemme just say this, reading about you is one thing.

Looking at my notes is one thing.

Listening to you, you are history.

You are part of history and we're so honored and fortunate to have you with us.

- Thank you.

- Talking about not just Paul Robeson, but Albert Einstein.

But going back to Robeson, how much can you share with us about Robeson being blacklisted to the McCarthy era Joe McCarthy, Senator Joe McCarthy, famously holding up, I have a list in my hand of those who are communists.

None of it was true.

Robeson was blackballed.

He couldn't work, he couldn't make a living.

Mostly because he was Black or was it because he was part of a progressive leaning movement that wanted to change society?

What was going on there?

- He was powerful.

He was powerful, that's why they called him the tallest tree in the forest.

Wherever he was, people recognized who he was.

Through his singing, through his activism, through his talking.

Jay Edgar Hoover- - The head of the FBI, was he afraid of Robeson?

- Well, yeah.

They were afraid of Robeson.

Just like they were afraid of Martin Luther King.

- Dr. King, right.

- Anyone who had the power and it's going on today with white supremacy, anyone who has the power and has the power to bring people together.

There are people who are opposed to that 'cause it takes away from their freedom.

It takes away from their power.

But Paul Robeson was a man of value.

He was a man of valor.

And anywhere he went throughout the world, he went to so many places.

He knew so many languages.

He knew 20, he spoke 20 languages.

He sang in over 50 languages and he mixed the African language with Chinese language.

And he could find out that the tones of those languages he used in his singing.

So if you listen to his singing, you can hear the tones from these other languages that he learned.

So he was just was a powerful man.

And if you're afraid of someone who's powerful, you try to bring them down.

And that's what McCarthy did.

And that's what Jay Edgar Hoover did.

So in his later years you could see that it was wearing on here, you know, even iron wears out.

And he tried so hard in all places, in all countries to promote peace in his singing, in his activism, in everything he did.

But then toward the end of his life, you know he got, I think arterial sclerosis, I think I pronounced that correctly.

And he went through a depression.

And, you know, well, at the end of his life, he was living with his sister Marian Forsythe in Philadelphia.

And that's where we get the Philadelphia connection.

His home on Wall Street, on Walnut Street in Philadelphia.

And you know, his wife, he had a wife, Eslanda and there were some complications in his family, in his life.

- Because it was a gem of the state, a gem of this country.

And again, I say it for some people, but, I don't remember the last time I meant it ever more than this.

You honor us by your presence, Ms. Satterfield.

Thank you so much.

- And thank you.

I also wanted to let you know that there's also a group of women called Sankofa Stitchers.

And they are noted quilters.

And there's going to be a commemorative quilt in honor of Paul Robeson.

So there's many things we're gonna do.

So make sure you tune in.

And also, I am the President of the Witherspoon Jackson Historical and Cultural Society to keep our history and we have 29 heritage plaques of African American establishments in Princeton.

So I thank you so much for inviting me.

It was a pleasure, a pleasure meeting you.

- And the feeling's very mutual.

That's Shirley Satterfield talking about the iconic, the great, the person, Paul Robeson that we must remember and never forget.

Thank you so much.

- Tallest tree in the forest.

- Stay with us- Thank you ma'am.

- Thank you.

- We'll be right back.

- [Narrator] To watch more One on One with Steve Adubato find us online and follow us on Social media.

Jacqui, now we remember one half, I would argue the more famous half, of Abbott and Costello way before your time and my time, way before my time, Lou Costello.

We interviewed Lou Costello's daughter, Chris Costello.

Why is Lou Costello so important?

- He was an amazing comedian, actor, producer.

He always said that he really admired Charlie Chaplin, and you saw that a little bit in his work.

And I think he's best known, him and Abbott, for doing that sketch, "Who's on First."

It's really funny banter back and forth.

I think just resonated with a lot of people during that time, and it's something they performed over and over and over again, but always changed it up a little bit, they said, to keep it fresh.

So it's a fun interview, fun to learn more about Lou Costello and his New Jersey roots.

- Yep, Paterson, New Jersey.

Go to Paterson, there's a big statue of Lou Costello.

- That's okay.

Listen, we're gonna look at the career of the very interesting figure from, again, funny man, but deeper than some might think, and that's why we talked to Chris Costello.

So for Jacqui, myself, the entire "Remember Them" team, let's look at Lou Costello.

- (Narrator) When two burlesque comedians performed together in 1935, one of the world's most famous comedy teams was born.

Asbury Park's Bud Abbott and Paterson's Lou Costello moved from vaudeville to gain fame in radio, movies and television, including their own half-hour TV show in the 1950s.

And of course, who can forget their legendary who's on first routine?

We are proud that these two New Jersey natives joined together to become one of America's funniest and most popular comedy teams of all time.

- I must be brave.

I must be strong.

I must be brave.

I must be brave.

I must be strong.

I must be brave.

I must be strong.

- Here she is, Chris Costello, daughter of Lou Costello the great, Lou Costello of Abbott and Costello.

Her book, "Lou's On First" with Raymond Strait, right behind me on my left.

Chris, how you doing?

- I'm doing great.

How are you doing?

- I'm doing great.

This book is fascinating.

This story's fascinating.

By the way, the audio book is gonna be out very quickly.

- It is out.

- Oh, it is?

- It is out.

- Why the book, first of all?

- Oh, I never would've written a book, to be honest with you, had it not been for the "Bud and Lou" book that came out by Bob Thomas and Eddie Sherman.

And I just felt it was very inaccurate.

It was unfair, you know?

It was very Hollywood sensationalism at its very, very best.

And the thing that always stayed in my mind was my sister, walking into my sister's home one day when she was on the phone with Bob Thomas, asking him "how he could write such blatant lies and not even interview family members."

And his response back was, "Unfortunately, Carol, you don't sell a book by being nice."

When I heard that, I said, "But you can sell a book by being fair."

I had just finished reading the Brooke Hayward book, "Haywire", and I loved the way she incorporated interviews into the book.

So it made you feel like all those people were talking and telling the story, and that's what I wanted to do.

I couldn't write the book.

I was 11 when he passed away, so my memories are only up to a certain point.

But the people that knew him, worked with him, boyhood friends on down the line, could tell the story.

And I have to say, it lasted 22 years in print, not one bad review on the book.

And I think it was during COVID, when I decided, you know, I've been procrastinating about this for so long.

Now's the time to change that walk-in closet into Studio C and get this audio book done.

And I work with a wonderful producer, Pam Wise, and a wonderful sound mixer up in San Francisco, June Miller with JMC Sound.

And the three of us really launched the audio book, but we incorporated soundbites, thank you to Universal.

We gave a bonus chapter which is not the original book, so it brings everybody up to date.

And we top it off at the end with family home movie audio clips.

So we're really, really proud of it.

And you can find it on any of the audiobook platforms.

- Where the heck does, "Who's on First?"

come from?

- Well, it goes way back to Vaudeville, the old British music halls.

There were skits on baseball, but not with the players' names, the dad and Bud incorporated.

It was totally different.

There was also a variation called, "Who's The Boss?

", "Baker's Dozen", "Bolts and Wants."

What dad and Bud did is they took this skit of baseball, and they completely wrote in the players and their names with John Grant, their head gag writer from "Burlesque."

And it was the three of them that really sat down and took this routine, and turned it into the "Lou's on First" that we hear today.

One of my favorites, beyond "Who's On First?"

You know this right away.

He's in the jail cell.

You know where I'm going right away.

- Oh, "Slowly I Turned?"

- Slowly I turned- - Was it Pokomoko?

- step by step, inch by inch.

What the heck was that?

That was priceless.

- You know, all of these skits and bits that they did originated back in the Vaudeville burlesque circuit.

The ones that really could claim a routine as their own were the ones who made the successes of the routine.

- Was that called "Niagara Falls"?

I'm sorry for interrupting.

Was that called "Niagara Falls?"

- Yeah, it went by "Niagara Falls", "Pokomoko", "Slowly I Turned."

What Abbott and Costello did is they didn't create the routines per se, but they brought them into their films, into their television shows.

So they've become synonymous really with all of those routines.

But if you look at like the drill routine from "Buck Privates," actually, "The Three Stooges" did that with Ted Healy, but it was Abbott and Costello who took that skit, another burlesque routine, and incorporated it into their films.

- Hmm.

So, by way of background, again, Lou Costello, born and raised in Paterson, New Jersey, would find a way to work Paterson into comedy skits both on television- - Always.

- as well as in movies.

Loved Paterson.

- He never lost his roots.

Even out here on the West Coast, he never lost those Jersey roots.

If you see "Naughty Nineties," the film, "Naughty Nineties," when they're doing the, "Who's on First" skit, sketch.

Look in the background, the backdrop has Paterson Wolves.

He incorporated his father's name, Sebastian, as his name in the film.

So he was always trying to bring in Paterson.

- As an Italian-American from New Jersey, strong ethnic roots, you have them as well.

Your dad being Italian-American, being Catholic mattered to him.

- Oh yeah.

Oh, yes, yes.

- Talk about that.

- He was your typical Italian father.

He (laughs) really was.

- Wait, hold on.

You give your description.

I have mine, but you give yours.

(laughs) - I mean, well, first of all, my mother was a Scot.

She was born and raised in Scotland up until the age of 12, but she had those Scottish roots.

You don't spoil the child, spare the rod, or spoil the child.

- Yep.

- Dad was, and my mother, both made sure that we went to church on Sundays.

There was always that element of a strong family unity, coffee klatches with grandma on the weekends, always bringing the box of donuts.

He never lost the Jersey roots, you know?

It was so ingrained in him, and he had such a passion to get back to the East Coast.

So I feel in a way, even though I was born and raised on the West Coast, that I really grew up kind of like Jersey Italian, you know, here in California.

- Real quick.

Short version.

Did they or did they not?

Listen, 22 years together, Abbott and Costello- - I know what you're gonna ask.

(laughs) - yeah, well, listen, there are people here I've been working with for 22.

Trust me, I don't wanna know what they say behind my back, meaning issues come up, things happen.

You can love each other, care about each other, be friends, get along, but stuff happens, right?

- Here's what I always tell a lot of the fans 'cause they'll bring this up constantly, "Did Abbott and Costello hate each other?"

And I said, "Well, first of all, you can't believe everything you read."

And I said, "They were together 22 years.

They were different personalities.

Of course they had their disagreements.

They had their fights."

You know, but as Betty Abbott, Bud's widow said to me in an interview, she said, "Anne and I," my mom, she said, "We never interfered because we knew it was just temporary."

That whatever their disagreement was, they find a way to patch it up.

But I have to say, and I've said this to the fan, "God help anybody that would ever say anything derogatory about the other when they were fighting."

- They were together.

- "Because they came to each other's defense."

And when the team broke up, I keep reminding people, "They broke up.

They didn't dissolve the friendship.

It was still there, but they needed some time, some space."

- Last question, Lou Costello's memory, his legacy defined other than his greatness in his performances, and all the entertaining, and all the laughs, how would you want people to remember your dad?

- As a humanitarian.

He had what they call long arms, short pockets.

He was always there to help the underdog, especially kids which is what made him and motivated him to build the Lou Costello Junior Youth Center in East L.A. for the underprivileged kids.

It was, you know, that was his heart and soul.

To him, making money was to help others, and that's what he did, so humanitarian.

- Chris, we cannot thank you enough that the team, Jacqui Tricarico and myself, at "Remember Them," we'll also air this on "One-on-One" as well for as many people as possible, as many people as possible can see it, I cannot thank you enough, not only for being with us- - Thank you.

- but for this book, "Lou's On First," the audio book is out as well.

We wish you and your family all the best.

Thank you, Chris.

- Thank you so much.

It was a pleasure.

Thank you.

- You got it.

I'm Steve Adubato, way more importantly, that is Chris Costello.

Thank you for joining us.

We'll see you next time.

- [Narrator] One-On-One with Steve Adubato has been a production of the Caucus Educational Corporation.

Funding has been provided by PSE&G, NJM Insurance Group.

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And by New Jersey Sharing Network.

Promotional support provided by New Jersey Globe.

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