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- This is One-On-One.

- I'm an equal American just like you are.

- The way we change Presidents in this country is by voting.

- A quartet is already a jawn, it’s just The New Jawn.

- January 6th was not some sort of violent, crazy outlier.

- I don't care how good you are or how good you think you are, there is always something to learn.

- I mean what other country sends comedians over to embedded military to make them feel better.

- People call me 'cause they feel nobody's paying attention.

_ It’s not all about memorizing and getting information, it’s what you do with that information.

- (slowly) Start talking right now.

- That's a good question, high five.

(upbeat music) - Hi, everyone.

Steve Adubato with my colleague, Jacqui Tricarico.

We are the co-anchors of a show you know.

It's called "Remember Them."

Jacqui, who do we remember today and why?

- Well, this whole show is dedicated to jazz legends coming out of the great state of New Jersey.

And right now, we're going to hear from Wayne Winborne over at Rutgers University Newark, who gives us some insight and in-depth look to a jazz legend from Newark, Wayne Shorter.

He was known as the Newark Flash, and he really took, in the 1950s when jazz was this huge thing in Newark and so many greats came out of Newark during that time period, he really took his roots and used that in his music and what he created.

And no better person than to have Wayne Winborne join us for this really inspirational story.

- Yeah, and Wayne Winborne over at Rutgers, as Jacqui said, is with the Institute, the director of the Institute for Jazz Studies, and people say Newark and jazz, Sarah Vaughan, the great Woody Shaw, so many great jazz giants out of Newark.

So, we look at the great Wayne Shorter, talking to our friend and colleague over at Rutgers, as we remember Mr.

Shorter by talking to Professor Winborne.

- We're joined once again by a jazz aficionado, an expert, a scholar.

He knows why Wayne Shorter matters more than most.

Wayne Winborne is Executive Director of the Institute of Jazz Studies at Rutgers University Newark.

Good to see you, my friend.

- Good to see you, how are you?

- Great, listen, Jacqui Tricarico and I talked a little bit about Wayne Shorter and why he matters, but you understood and understand better than most.

Why did, why does Wayne Shorter matter now more than ever?

- It's fascinating because we're in interesting times today across the planet as human beings, as citizens of particular nations, as residents in communities, as folks just trying to, you know, make our way through life, raise families.

And Wayne Shorter increasingly becomes such a beacon, such a person of clarity and vision that continually shows us another way of being with one another.

He also happened to do it through making great music and impacting our senses and playing upon our senses and our sounds, and adding visuals to that, that really, in an almost cosmological way, point a direction for us as human beings in big, sort of philosophical astral words that we can use, but also in small ways about how we get along with one another.

How we change our thinking about whether we're upset about an altercation that happened on the street.

He is an incredible, incredible figure and continues to be, again, through his music, but also through the words that he would use in talking about his music.

- Put in context when you met him, he died in 2023 on March 2nd in Los Angeles.

Put in context your face-to-face conversation with Wayne Shorter, please, Wayne.

- Yeah, I had the opportunity to visit with him at his home, I think it was 2021.

We had honored him with an honorary doctorate here at Rutgers University of Newark, and I got to deliver the physical copy to him at his home in Los Angeles.

He was actually visiting, he was staying with his good friend, the renowned architect and designer, Frank Gehry, and Wayne and his wife, Carolina, they were having some work done on their home nearby in Los Angeles.

And the Frank Gehry House in Santa Monica is well known.

It's on Google Maps and everything.

So first thing I get to go meet Wayne Shorter, physically whom I'd encountered, you know, when I was in high school through his records.

And then of course, the great bassist, singer, composer, Esperanza Spalding, who was very close to him, like a daughter, to he and his wife, Carolina.

She was there and sort of wandering in and out.

And so, you know, they welcomed me in and I got to spend the next almost five hours, it was four or five hours sitting next to Wayne Shorter and just talking.

And it's one of the, honestly, it's one of the great thrills of my life, it really is.

His mind worked in a different way.

You know, Steve, we throw the word genius around a lot, you know, and there are a lot of folks who are really, really smart and have different kinds of genius, you know, but Wayne Shorter, truly, you know, was a genius.

His mind just worked- - What, I'm sorry for interrupting.

What made him a genius?

- I think, and I'm speculating about, I can, we can do psychological testing stuff and, you know, his creative output and blah, blah, blah.

I really think in his mind everything was related to everything else.

A movie that he saw in 1952 was just one step away from the sound that he heard of a bird outside of his window, or the vacant lot that he and his brother used to play in behind their parents' house, or this composition he was writing, or a solo that Charlie Parker played on his first record, or the conversation he just had with his good friend Sonny Rollins.

And he literally would bounce from thing to thing.

And he spoke in such a way, like, I'm using these long, complete sentences.

He would sometimes just say these very short phrases and then look at you, you know, and like, oh, huh.

And you have to think about it.

And I have to tell you, I know some folks inevitably found that up strange or difficult, you know, he was, in high school, his nickname was Mr. Weird, and sometimes they call him Mr. God, 'cause he was so very different thinker.

But I loved it, man.

I mean, sitting next to this guy and really following him, he loved cartoons and movies and music.

And so following along as he made one, you know, allusion or another, or may or taught me one lesson or told me jokes or told me stories about musicians that I loved and knew, you know, and I would ask him questions about things.

I'm telling you, see, I was a kid in the candy store and just fascinated like, wow, how does this cat move through the world?

How does he see people?

And I think he did so in a manner that was laced with love and beauty, and he sought to communicate that to the rest of us through his music.

- Let me ask you this and to remind people, Wayne Shorter received 12 Grammy awards for his recordings.

- Yep, 12 Grammy Awards, 23 nominations.

I know, including a lifetime Grammy, Steve, including, you know, this Jersey kid, a Jersey kid now.

- Yes, so that's where I'm going.

to what degree do you believe Wayne Shorter's brilliance, his genius, his whatever he had, is connected to being born and raised in Newark?

- Oh, I think it's intimately connected, man.

I mean, I think that is such an integral part of who he was and what he would become growing up.

- Why?

- And by the way, I get to say, I get to say this because I'm not born and raised in Newark, you know, I live here down Newark now, but I love.

- We've adopted you - Oh, and I want it.

So I, you know, I get to have that eye of, you know, a friendly outsider, knowledgeable outsider.

Why?

He grew up in this context of a neighborhood, bustling city.

Think about Newark, all of these different communities bumping up against one another.

Folks, the sounds, the food, the music, the interaction, like you said, some of it with not great consequences, but a lot of it was very profound consequences.

- And he was at Arts High in extraordinary high school music.

Arts High, why did Arts High matter?

I'm sorry for complicating, go ahead, Wayne.

- No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, Arts High matters because it was one of the few places in the country, certainly around here, where young people were formally studying the arts, music, visual arts.

And so he's thrown into that because he won a drawing contest, actually.

He and his brother used to draw comic books.

And there was, they used to have these contests all the time, you know, trace, you know, Superman or something like that.

And he got first place.

He said, you can find the, you can actually see his picture in the Star Ledger having won first place.

And so it's like, okay, he needs to go to art school.

There's this new Arts High, Newark Arts High.

And that's where he goes.

And he encounters other students, you know.

- How about Ken Gibson, former mayor of Newark?

- Plays in his band.

He plays clarinet in the band because he moves from visual arts to music, because he was cutting class and going to the movies.

And he got caught, and they moved him to a music class.

And the teacher was particularly good.

And so he is doing his work and all, and they take an exam at the end of the year.

He tells the story, he got the perfect score.

He got the best score.

And there were other kids who've been studying music since they were 5, 6, 7, you know, his parents brought him a clarinet.

He started on clarinet.

And so he gets a perfect score.

And as they're leaving class, the teacher holds up the exam and says, 'Now students, this is a perfect exam.

You all need to take note of this."

And he said, it was like, you know how it can be for a child, a young person to get validation like that.

It was, I forget how he described it, but it was almost like he was floating down the hall.

And as he walked on, he was like, this is something I need to pay attention to music, you know, so Arts High is important.

His family church, Mount Zion Baptist, over on Broadway, that's important.

His father, working at the Singer Sewing Machine Factory is important.

He talks about, 'cause he spent a year there after high school, working for a year before he says, I gotta do something else, but see the machines being made.

And he describes that whole process in deciding, oh man, I don't wanna be like the men making the machine because they stayed here, each person doing their own thing.

I wanna see, I wanna be the machine, the mean machine.

What, how do you put it?

The machine gets bigger, you know, they were put as they assembled the parts, again, his mind working differently.

That's when he decided to apply to NYU.

Think of the context of the other, again, he's playing in a band with a bunch of other kids, older kids.

One of them would go on to become mayor of Newark, Ken Gibson.

He's hanging out with other kids who were listening to music, who were creating sounds, who were playing sports.

You know, even as I say, he was a very different and creative kid.

He spent a lot of time indoors, drawing.

He said other kids would be playing sports, and he, you know, he'd listen to music or draw, you know, so he is a different kid, but he's in this context, and it's not a random context, Steve.

It is, it's Newark, New Jersey.

- Then he's side by side Miles Davis.

- Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

- And the greats.

- Yep, yeah.

- And he's toe-to-toe, shoulder-to-shoulder.

What's he bring to that?

- He brings his ear, he brings his deep humanity, because again, now, so his idols, he's listening to Lester Young and Charlie Parker, and everybody's playing bebop.

He's very fast, he's very frenetic, he's very urban.

And Wayne is this quiet, introverted person who loves sound.

you know, his nickname was the Newark Flash, because he could play fast.

He played bebop very well.

By the time he's ready to join Miles Davis's Band, right, he's absorbed all the influences before then playing with Art Blakey, played a bit with Horace Silver.

He's interested in going deeper inside, right?

The technique, the harmonic sophistication, the rhythmic flexibility, those were just the tools that allowed him to express his deepest and best self.

So now he's going inward.

He had been writing the whole time in everyone's band that he played in, he was always composing.

And now he's playing with Miles Davis.

This was the most popular jazz band on the planet.

You know, Miles Davis was a star.

And he's, you know, Miles is putting together a new band.

You probably know this already.

But when John Coltrane left the band, it was almost four years that Miles spent testing, playing with other great musicians.

He never settled on another saxophone player.

He tried several of them.

He tried to vibraphonist, and then Wayne Shorter comes along and he knew he had found his band mate.

And eventually, Wayne would become the primary composer for the band.

And he tells a famous story of showing up with his book of compositions and Miles just grabbing one.

They were at a record date, and Miles just grabs one, and they play it.

And it's now what's considered a jazz standard called Footprints.

And when they finish the date, Wayne Shorter said that Miles told him, okay, we'll see you next week and bring your book, meaning his composition.

You know, it’s just beautiful talking about this Newark, New Jersey, incredible person, won a Polar Prize, international figure, still influential and impactful, and took Newark, New Jersey with him throughout his life, see, had it with him.

- Hey Wayne, thank you my friend.

Continue to join us on, "Remember Them", airing on One-on-One putting in perspective some of the greatest, most impactful and important jazz icons, artists, geniuses, who we must remember.

Thank you, Wayne, all the best.

- Thank you Steve, always great to see you, take care.

- You got it.

Stay with us, we'll be right back.

- [Narrator] To watch more One on One with Steve Adubato find us online and follow us on Social media.

Jacqui, let's shift gears.

We just talked about Wayne Shorter, and now we look at the great Bucky Pizzarelli.

Who was Bucky and why are we talking to his son, John?

- And you know, we've had Bucky and John join us before together, which you're gonna see a clip from that up next when you interviewed them together at NJPAC many years ago, and they are just two jazz greats.

The music runs through their family, and John himself is a musician, as well.

And Steve, it really is such a treat when we get to interview people who were family members of the folks that we're remembering 'cause we get those really in-depth stories and stories that people have never heard from those folks.

So, you'll hear some of that up next with your interview with John.

- Look, Bucky Pizzarelli, you may not know exactly who he was, but he was with the The Tonight Show Band way back when Johnny Carson moved to California.

Bucky did not go with the band.

He wanted to stay with his family.

He was a Jersey guy, family guy.

And John Pizzarelli, as Jacqui said, a great musician, a great jazz guitarist talking about his dad, the great Bucky Pizzarelli.

- And a 2011 New Jersey Hall of Fame inductee.

Didn't wanna forget that one.

- I love how Jacqui corrects me on the air, but it also makes the show better.

She's right about that and about everything else.

Check it out.

- [Steve] Performing together, as father and son.

What's it like for you to be together?

- [Bucky] Biggest thrill of my life.

- Talk about it, Bucky.

- Well, you know, we know each other, and I know where he's going and he knows where I'm going.

So we meet and the music comes out.

- [Steve] Go ahead.

- Well, I agree.

You can't say it any better than that.

And you said once, "You can't beat blood."

(chuckles) And we love- - Blood, it sometimes, doesn't always, you know?

- But you know, the music.

- You heard of The Jacksons, right?

- The musical blood in our family was so, his uncles played banjos, taught him.

The same guys who taught me when I was very young.

So, music was always for fun.

And so we didn't really know that we're doing it for a living.

- Every Sunday at our house, with my two uncles, and then we were watching and then I learned a few chords, and I showed him, and then we all joined in.

- We are honored to be joined by an extraordinary musician, guitarist, and he's just the best.

He's John Pizzarelli, and Bucky was his dad.

Hey, John.

Good to see you, buddy.

- Good to see you, Steve.

Thanks for having me.

- You got it.

Hey, listen, there was some video we showed of you and your dad.

I was honored to be able to interview you at NJPAC, and the two of you just, I don't even know if you had a plan, but you could always just get together and do what you did and create that magic.

Why was it so special to play with him?

- Well, every night with my dad on the bandstand was a learning experience.

And actually, the car rides were just as much a learning experience too.

We talked about so much in the car, and we just had a lot of fun.

By the time I got to be a better guitar player, it was a lot more of a musical conversation, and then we just had so much fun playing together.

- Let me try this.

Bucky was a student of guitar for his entire life.

Was he constantly learning as a student of the guitar?

- Yeah.

If ever he made some kind of mistake or there was a song that hung him up the night before, the next day, he would sit down and go over that song.

And if I called him from my apartment or if I stopped by the house, he'd have that music in front of him.

And he was constantly trying to play better chords on a song, learn a song better, and just be as good as he could be on the instrument.

Taught himself classical guitar, played the bossa nova on a lot of records, and even electric guitar as a rhythm guitar.

All the aspects of the guitar were challenging to him.

- So, you know, it's so interesting to me.

Back in 1952, we talked about this when we introed this segment, staff musician at NBC playing on the Skitch Henderson back in 1964, a member of the Tonight Show Band.

So, Johnny Carson and Tonight Show moved to LA.

And he doesn't go to LA, to California, with Johnny Carson, with the Tonight Show Orchestra, to be with his family?

- He stayed.

- Is that accurate?

- Oh yeah, he stayed in New Jersey because he was really established in the studios.

He didn't want to move everybody to California.

And I think, he was, you know, he's a real Jersey guy, through and through, before that was an expression, you know?

He loved being in New Jersey, being near his mother and father and the family.

And I think he had enough of a career here, it didn't mean a lot to him to go be in a band out on the West Coast.

- Bucky Pizzarelli and Frank Sinatra, talk about it.

- Well, you know, there were always, when we were kids and the phone call came that there was a record date, you know, we were all sort of, "Bucky's got things to do, everybody out of the way."

(chuckles) You know, there's a record date.

Those record dates were always late at night, 10 o'clock.

And so that was always a big deal.

And then he'd always say, you know, "He came over to me, gave me a big hug."

He'd always have something fun to say about the date.

And when I got to do the Garden State Art Center and open for Sinatra in '93, I called my father and I said, "You got to do the date with us," you know, "it'd be fun to have you."

And he played with.

- Did he?

- Yeah, he did the date with us.

And at the end, Sinatra came out off stage where we were and he shook my father's hand, he said, "Thank you for helping us out tonight."

My father was just laughing because that's all he ever did, he was always, (imitates laughing).

That was a big answer for him.

Just those.

(Steve chuckles) - Not a talker, John?

- Not a big talker.

That's why when I got him in a car to go to gigs, whether it was an hour or two hours or we drove up to Boston or something, I would make cassettes and force him to talk.

You know, I had a captured audience.

So I'd say, "What was it like with Sinatra?

What was it like when you played guitar at this club or when you worked with that guy?"

And that was really fun.

And then eventually, he knew what the drill was.

He would say, "You got any good music for the ride?"

You know, I'd find records that he was on that he hadn't heard in a long time, and it was really fun.

- John, do this for us.

You talked about the collaboration with your dad, with Bucky and Sinatra.

Share with us another collaboration that really sticks in your mind of the many, many, many collaborations with the two of you.

You performed for presidents, didn't you?

- My father did.

My father performed for Reagan with Sinatra and Perry Como.

And then, also, I have a recording of when King Hussein came in, during the Reagan administration, he wanted to hear Buddy Rich on drums with Benny Goodman.

And so Benny called my father and said, "He wants Buddy Rich."

My father said, "Call him."

So, he called him up and there's a great concert they played, was Hank Jones, Milt Hinton, Benny Goodman, Bucky Pizzarelli, and Buddy Rich.

And they did a beautiful concert for King Hussein.

I got a recording of that and it's one of the great, it's one of my treasures.

And I think my father and Benny Goodman got along pretty well from about 65 to 85.

And there was a saxophonist named Zoot Sims, we got to play at Waterloo Village with him, and at the Ridgewood Bandshell and places like that.

And they were good friends and we'd always have fun at the house, and things like that.

And, you know, Bucky.

- Did Bucky get along with just about everyone, John?

- I was just going to say that.

You know, he got along with everybody.

Because he was smart, you know?

He let the other people dictate what they wanted to do, and he was like, "That's good."

And he knew when to make suggestions, and he knew when to lay back and let what they wanted to do work.

So I think that's why he got along with so many people.

And everybody I meet to this day and I've met along the way, have always said, "You know, this so and so loved your father.

This guy loved your father.

This singer loved your father.

He was so easy to work with."

He was a great listener.

- And he played into his 90s.

- Yeah.

It was pretty remarkable.

I mean, with the exception of I think 90, 91, he did come back after like a stroke that he had, and even played with me at Birdland, came on, and he would just look at me, like, "What do you want to do?"

And as long as he, his eyesight was going, but as long as he knew where he was on the guitar, he could find his way.

And he knew where the melodies were.

Once he knew where he was in the right key, he was off to the races.

You know, it all sort of came back to him, it was quite amazing.

- He passed during COVID.

And then your mom passed soon thereafter, if I'm not mistaken.

- Seven days later.

- What do you miss most about your dad?

- I miss the fun.

We had a lot of fun together.

It's the funniest thing when I get asked that question now that moves me, the fun that we had, and I miss that.

- I don't know if you remember, you've done so many interviews.

I remember being at NJPAC with you and your dad, and you just started playing together and I just thought, "What an extraordinary thing.

Not just for these two great guitarist, musicians, but a father and a son sharing their love of music, enjoying each other," and as you just said, having fun.

Hey John, thank you for allowing us to pay tribute to and remember your dad, the great Bucky Pizzarelli.

Thank you so much, John.

- My pleasure.

It's always a joy to talk about my dad.

- Yeah, well, it's a joy to have you.

That's the great John Pizzarelli talking about Bucky.

I'm Steve Adubato for our entire team at Remember Them.

And thank you so much for watching.

Let's remember, and listen, check out the great Bucky Pizzarelli.

See you next time.

(lively guitar music) (lively guitar music continues) (lively guitar music continues) (lively guitar music continues) - [Narrator] One-On-One with Steve Adubato is a production of the Caucus Educational Corporation.

Funding has been provided by PSEG Foundation.

NJM Insurance Group.

Hackensack Meridian Health.

The New Jersey Education Association.

New Jersey Sharing Network.

The Turrell Fund, a foundation serving children.

Community FoodBank of New Jersey.

And by United Airlines.

Promotional support provided by The New Jersey Business & Industry Association.

And by BestofNJ.com.

NJM Insurance Group has been serving New Jersey businesses for over a century.

As part of the Garden State, we help companies keep their vehicles on the road, employees on the job and projects on track, working to protect employees from illness and injury, to keep goods and services moving across the state.

We're proud to be part of New Jersey.

NJM, we've got New Jersey covered.