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- This is One-On-One.

- I'm an equal American just like you are.

- The way we change Presidents in this country is by voting.

- A quartet is already a jawn, it’s just The New Jawn.

- January 6th was not some sort of violent, crazy outlier.

- I don't care how good you are or how good you think you are, there is always something to learn.

- I mean what other country sends comedians over to embedded military to make them feel better.

- People call me 'cause they feel nobody's paying attention.

_ It’s not all about memorizing and getting information, it’s what you do with that information.

- (slowly) Start talking right now.

- That's a good question, high five.

(upbeat music) - Hi, Steve Adubado with my colleague Jacqui Tricarico.

Jacqui, I am upbeat and I have my football, I have my official NFL football here, because today we honor the gentleman over my shoulder.

That is the great Wellington Mara, one of the owners, the Mara family, originally owned the Giants.

They bought them for what, 25, 26 grand back in the day.

And Wellington Mara was the owner of the Giants.

Now Tim Mara, owner of the Giants, and we interviewed two Giant greats.

One is George Martin, who was a superstar, a player for the Giants, and also Bob Papa, who's the radio voice of the Giants.

Jacqui, why do I have this football here?

- Well-- - Not just because I was a mediocre high school and college football player, but why is it that I have this ball here?

- Well, the name The Duke was Wellington Mara's nickname, and it was put on all the footballs, and what the footballs that the NFL uses today.

And we're actually gonna see a clip from the documentary, which was done by the NFL, called "The Duke", up next, before we see those two interviews.

And that documentary you can check out online.

Really great, couple hours of information about who he was, why he mattered, and something we wanna bring it back to New Jersey is that he was a 2012 New Jersey Hall of Fame inductee.

- And also, he brought the Giants from where they were playing, Yankee Stadium, and then the Yale Bowl in Connecticut to the Meadowlands Giant Stadium.

I'm sorry for Jets fans, it's Giant Stadium, just saying that.

By the way, when we talk about The Duke, it's the Duke of Wellington, that's where the name comes from, just to clarify that.

So Jacqui, we talked to George Martin, who is the best, a class act, and knows the Giants and knew Wellington Mara quite well.

They didn't, let's just say there's an interesting story in this about where they butted heads a tiny bit, and also Bob Papa, the great voice of the New York Giants.

Let's check out the great Wellington Mara.

(upbeat music) (gentle music) - I think of Wellington Mara, I think of the NFL.

- The backbone of the NFL.

- He was a man of immense dignity, immense integrity.

- The guy who, by demeanor, set what Giants football is all about.

- I don't know if the NFL would be what it is today without Wellington Mara.

It wouldn't be as exciting, it wouldn't be as competitive.

- I think a lot of people who know the NFL realize what sacrifices that Mara has made to make the NFL the league that it is today.

- We're talking to one of the greatest New York football giants of all time.

George Martin, former defensive captain of the Giants, 1975 to '88, one of the top 100 New York football Giants of all time.

I was honored to be there an opening day.

We got killed that day.

The Giants got killed.

But George and LT and some of his colleagues were there as one of the top 100 players.

The former president of the NFL Players Association, former head of the NFL Alumni Association, George Martin.

It is an honor.

Thank you my friend.

- Steve, it's my pleasure!

Thank you for having me.

- I say, Wellington Mara, you say, go ahead, word association.

- NFL classiest owner.

- Because.

- I think, number one, when you look back at the New York Giant franchises, they were one of the first NFL franchises to exist.

And I think Wellington Mara and his family coming from that background, had a tremendous amount of influence and a tremendous amount of vision for the future and what the NFL would be.

And I think Wellington Mara conducted himself always from that perspective.

- George, what was he like?

Now, give some context.

Jacqui Tricarico, my co-anchor and our executive producer talked a little bit about Mr. Mara coming in, but he came into the Giants with his father, Tim, having bought the team, right?

- That is correct.

- And then he's a kid, a teenager when he comes in to start interacting, and in management.

- Yes, that's my understanding.

Obviously that predated my entry into the Giants in 1975.

- By a lot.

- Yeah, by a lot.

But I mean, that, aura was there, it was already established.

And having said that, there was a great deal of respect that was guarded by Mr. Mara.

And he wore that hat extremely well, because I think he not only saw the importance of being the owner of the team and the importance of the successful franchise, but I think he also applied that to the players themselves, 'cause he had a great deal of humanity that he spread among the players, which was always appreciated.

- You know, George, he had this humanity, but I also wanna make reference to a game in Florida, and you know, already what I'm talking about.

(George laughing) So, why are you laughing?

- You just cuts to the chase, huh Steve?

- So, listen.

We've known each other for a while.

- You're right.

- By the way, check out our previous interviews with George Martin.

They're always great.

And as a lifelong Giants fan, he was, during the heyday, the best.

So how about this, you're in Florida, there's some contract negotiations going on with the players, right?

- Yep.

- And what did Wellington Mara, the owner of Giants come in and say in the locker room when the players were saying they weren't gonna play?

- Okay, now let me set the stage, Steve, just for a second.

- Go ahead.

- You know, Wellington Mara and I were not chummy chummy buddy buddies.

We always had, not an adversarial relationship, but it was certainly owner management versus employee, okay?

And it was always respectful.

And he never, we never saw him raise his voice or anything like that.

He was never unruly.

He was never demanding or anything like that.

So we had gone into this contract negotiation and it had stalled, and we had gone back and forth for a long period of time.

And quite frankly, we as players, were out of options.

And so what we, the New York Giants, we were at a preseason game down in Florida.

It was Miami.

We decided that we were gonna, (chuckles) you know, exude some pressure by either delaying the game or not playing the game, so.

(laughs) It was funny.

So we took a vote, everybody, a hundred percent unanimous.

"Okay, let's stall the game."

So we voted to do that, and as a hush came over the locker room, which is very hard to do, a silence came over the locker room as Wellington Mara walked in through the double doors.

He walked in and everybody, I mean, everybody's head just went like this as he was walking in, he stopped in the middle of the locker room, guarded the attention of everybody.

Never raised his voice, Steve.

And here's what he said.

He said, "Gentlemen, you all know me and you know me well, and I tell you this, that if this game is not played, and played on time, I will see to it that none of you ever play in the NFL again."

Did an about face, Steve, and walked out, and pandemonium broke out.

(laughs) I can tell, I've never seen a locker room of guys (laughs) get dressed so quickly!

It was unbelievable the power that he had and we knew that he was not joking.

- So he wasn't screaming, wasn't yelling.

- Nope, didn't raise his voice above a whisper.

- Didn't have to.

- Didn't have to.

And by the way, he walked in alone.

He didn't have an escort of security guards.

And he walked in alone, walked right in the middle of the locker room and made that statement.

- You know, George, first of all, thank you for sharing that inside the locker room story that we never would've heard otherwise.

But here's the other thing about Wellington Mara that always fascinated me, that he was one of the originals, right?

The original folks who created the NFL.

How would Wellington Mara have, in your opinion, an owner in today's 2025 NFL, would he be able to have the same ownership slash leadership style and be successful?

- I don't think so.

Yeah, honestly, Steve, I don't think so.

I think there's a vast separation now between players and owner because of the evolution of the game itself.

Wellington Mara was sort of a hands-on guy.

He was very personable.

As I said, he was always respected, both within the locker room and to the exterior perimeter of professional athletics.

That kind of aura, you know, doesn't impress players nowadays.

You know, it's very cut and dry.

It's, they want X amount, they want a percentage, they want to increase this, and they have their representatives be the vocal point, and the league has their representatives.

So there's not a lot of interaction or meshing between owners and players now, as it was back then.

- You can duck this one if you want, but I'm gonna ask it anyway.

All right?

So- - Okay.

- We're taping this after the Super Bowl.

You know where I'm going.

I know, you know.

- Well, yep.

- So, in your opinion, and you could duck it if you want, if Wellington Mara were the owner of the Giants, when Saquon Barkley and his contract was up, do you think there was a better chance of the Giants keeping Saquon Barkley so he would play for our team?

- It's a very good question.

And let me tell you, the evolution has evolved to where today, no, Wellington Mara would not have.

However, I have to look at it from my perspective in my period of time, yes, he would have interceded and I'll tell you why.

Wellington Mara realized very, I think, profoundly, that the New York Giants were a leadership organization, I think, and also he had, believe it or not, he had a sense of humanity for a lot of the players.

And I'll tell you this because I know myself and many of the ballplayers have gone to Wellington Mara directly for personal requests.

And then, although he didn't acquiesce to all of them, but that there was a receptivity, the door was open, he had that sense of humanity back then.

I don't think that today's organization, corporations, allow that to happen.

So I have to answer in that, you know, that period of time, yes.

But in today's organization, no, I don't think it would happen.

- Last question, by the way, we have Bob Papa, the voice of the Giants on the back end, and George knows, well, talking about Wellington Mara, and just lemme remind folks that this ball happens to be signed by Phil Simms.

You know that guy, right?

Phil Simms?

- I vaguely heard of him.

- Yeah, and so the name The Duke, right?

I mentioned The Duke and I said this with Jacqui Tricarico on the front end, when we were introducing the program.

How many people do you think know, George, that The Duke is named after Wellington Mara, right?

- Yeah, it is.

And I think there are very few people would know that.

- The Duke of Wellington.

- Yes, right!

(laughs) Now, Steve, lemme clarify something, and I don't wanna give- - Go ahead.

- I don't wanna give the impression to the audience that Wellington Mara and I were chummy.

We weren't, it was always a very professional business, as I said.

- Was it this at all?

- Only that one time in the locker room.

That's the- - That was it!

- That was it!

- By the way, did you, George, did you lead that vote?

- Yes, I did!

I was the player representative.

I had to!

(laughs) - Always a leader!

So you said, "Let's call for a vote."

- Absolutely!

Yeah, that was me, yeah, yep.

I was a player of that.

- Did he hold it against you, George?

- No, he didn't, no, no.

And that's the other thing about Wellington.

I think that would've been trivial in his eyes.

I think he always looked at the broader picture and he realized the influence and the impact, but more importantly, the respect that I had among my colleagues.

And I think that played a large role into the longevity of my career.

- George Martin, one of the greatest New York football Giants of all time, and also a first-class human being.

- Thank you, Steve.

We saw each other recently at the Partners for Progress, NJPAC, for Newark Beth Israel.

And George has done so much work outside of his work as an athlete on behalf of the communities that he cares most deeply about.

George, thank you so much.

You honor us by your presence.

- Steve, it was my honor.

I appreciate everything you said and was a pleasure for me to be here, thank you.

- Thank you, George.

I'm Steve Adubato.

We're talking about the great Wellington Mara.

Right after this, we'll talk to Bob Papa, the voice of the Giants.

Stay with us.

- [Narrator] To watch more One on One with Steve Adubato find us online and follow us on Social media.

(uplifting music) - I'm very proud to represent the great bunch of men, our coaches and our players.

- You can't drive until you're 17 years old, and he was running a football team.

- He was like Forrest Gump.

He was like Forrest Gump.

Whenever something major happened in the league, he was a part of it.

- He saw the entire development of the league.

- He's one of the patriarchs.

There are only about four or five of them.

He's one of them.

- [Sportscaster] Backfield coach, Vince Lombardi.

- [Athlete] Wellington Mara recommended Vince Lombardi to me.

- I've never been in this room.

- The archives room.

Wellington Mara saves everything.

- [Wellington] I'm just so proud of what these guys have accomplished.

He cared about players.

- [Athlete] Mr. Mara would be sitting by my bed to make sure I was all right.

- [Narrator] Mr. Mara was never gonna give up on Lawrence Taylor.

- Wellington Mara, this guy has stood behind me on the field and off the field.

- Mr. Mara was known as The Duke.

Where'd he get that name?

- He was named after the Duke of Wellington.

- I played my entire career for Wellington Mara.

Why his name is next to yours on the football?

- [Athlete] He was a giant in more ways than one.

- We are honored to be joined by the great Bob Papa who is a sportscaster.

More importantly in this case, the voice, the play-by-play voice of the New York Football Giants.

His credentials, the golf channel, boxing.

As a boxing fan on HBO.

Hey, Bob, thank you so much for joining us to talk about Wellington Mara.

The most significant reason from your perspective as someone who understands sports better than most, the most significant reason we should remember Wellington Mara is what?

- His honesty, his level of commitment, not only to his family, but to the Giants, but to the National Football League.

You know, when you think about how this league has grown and prospered and what each team's evaluations are as far as finances are concerned, all goes back to Wellington Mara.

Because in that stadium, the greatest game ever played, 1958 Giants and Colts.

The Giants lose the first ever championship game in overtime.

You know, the Giants had their own network TV contract.

Their games were seen all over the country.

They were a national team.

And as we got into the 1960s, Wellington Mara was the one that said, "We're only gonna be as strong as our weakest link as the NFL, and we need to pool all of our money."

The Giants could have done what the Yankees did in baseball and just kinda kept all of their wealth to themselves, but he offered up to revenue share.

And that's why a team in Green Bay and a team in Buffalo can compete with a team in Dallas, New York, or Los Angeles.

And Wellington Mara was the driving force behind revenue sharing.

- Yeah, it's so interesting, Bob, that you mentioned Green Bay.

Wellington Mara discovering and bringing in Vince Lombardi, who then went to Green Bay to do great things.

Bill Parcells, who doesn't really need much of an introduction from me.

And also Tom Landry with the Giants, and then with the other team down in Dallas.

His ability to recruit extraordinary leader coaches.

Papa, go ahead, talk about it.

- Well, the Landry thing is interesting because, obviously, Landry was a player.

In fact, he was voted one of the top 100 players in Giant's history as they celebrated the 100 seasons.

So, he was involved in the scouting of Tom Landry and being around him of a similar age, so he got to know the brains behind it.

When we talk about analytics in sports today, they can go back to Tom Landry.

He was a mathematician and he was the one that looked at probabilities by studying tape.

He was one of the first coaches to study tape and figure out probabilities and create the umbrella defense to stop the likes of Jim Brown.

The Vince Lombardi situation is a little different because they were classmates at Fordham University.

- That's right.

- And so, he knew Vince Lombardi from when they were students at Fordham and developed a tight friendship.

And Lombardi had gone to Army and the Giants brought him in as a coach.

And imagine that when you watch games now and you see the 18,000 coaches on the sideline.

Jim Lee Howell had Tom Landry and Vince Lombardi.

- That was it?

- Enough said.

- That was it?

- Pretty much.

- That was the whole thing?

- That was it.

- Bob, let ask you this from a personal point of view.

Do you remember the first time you met Wellington Mara?

- Oh, absolutely.

- Talk about it.

- So, I'm a student at Fordham University, WFUV.

And I'm doing the basketball- - The great radio station there.

- That's right.

- My son's graduating in a couple months there.

What a great radio station.

Go ahead.

- So, WFUV was run by students at the time, and I was doing a lot of the basketball games.

And Jack Curry, who's on the YES Network was my lead analyst for Fordham Football and Fordham Basketball.

And Wellington Mara used to enjoy coming on a Saturday afternoon to Rose Hill and sit up in the little rafters there and watch for the basketball play.

- In the Bronx?

- In the Bronx, with his son John, who now runs the team.

So, WFUV is a commercial free station, so we had to fill the entire halftime.

So, we were always looking for guests as students or somebody to talk to.

And I remember sheepishly going over to Mr. Mara 'cause was sitting up where the broadcast position was in Rose Hill and asking him if he would come on at halftime to talk about the basketball game.

And of course, the Giants, I graduated from Fordham in '86, so this was probably the '85 season.

But the Giants were now on the rise, right?

This was a team that was a force becoming in the NFL.

And he said, "Absolutely."

And he joined us numerous times over the years.

So, that was my first interaction with Mr. Mara.

- You know, we talked to George Martin on the front end of this conversation in this program, "Remembering Wellington Mara."

And George had his own recollections about him, and he talked about how tough he could be when it came to player negotiations.

And George spoke for himself, and you can decide for yourself how you interpret that situation.

But let me ask you this.

One of the things that really struck me about Wellington Mara is this thing about LT.

So, Lawrence Taylor on the back end, when Lawrence Taylor had a series of problems legally, he stepped up and contributed hard dollars, real money to LT to help his family through some incredibly difficult times when LT was struggling with drug addiction.

Is that a fair assessment, Bob?

- Oh, absolutely.

"Once a Giant, always a Giant" is not just lip service.

The Mara family cares greatly about their players, and that was Wellington Mara.

I mean, you think about Richie Seubert who wound up winning a Super Bowl for the '07 Giants, the offensive lineman, an undrafted free agent.

He shattered his leg.

Maybe to never play football again.

And Wellington Mara went and visited him in the hospital almost every day until he got out.

And Richie will always tell story, he goes, "I'm lucky to even be on the team.

And now I have this severe injury, and the first thing I wake up from surgery and there's Mr. Mara there."

And there's a million stories.

Obviously, the LT one is the one that gains the most notoriety because it's Lawrence Taylor.

- Because it's LT. - Yeah, I mean, but there's a million players that would sing the same refrain of how Mr. Mara helped him or helped them through some difficult time in their life, both in a physical situation or in anything else that they need.

- Bob, let me ask you this, and I asked George Martin this question, but your perspective as the voice of the Giants that so many of us appreciate as Giant fans.

How well in your opinion would Wellington Mara do today if he were the owner of the Giants in 2025?

How effective would he be?

- I think he was brilliant as far as being able to see through the forest where the light was.

So, I think that he'd be great today.

You know, it's like saying, "How would Babe Ruth be in baseball today?"

You know, the greats are the greats.

How would Michael Jordan be in today's game?

He'd still be great.

You know, the greatest of the great, it doesn't matter what era they're in.

He was great in that era.

Obviously, spanned a lot of different eras because Wellington Mara was involved with the Giants from the very beginning, right through this thing called Free Agency that started in 1993.

So, he saw the League of evolve and change.

And my guess is he would be somebody that would be of great counsel to the other owners 'cause you always have to have those elder statesmen that can, because how do you have success moving forward?

You must understand the history.

You must understand the past in order to be able to solve the problems of the future.

- Bob Papa talking about the Great Wellington Mara.

Bob, cannot thank you enough.

Not just for joining us on this program, but for being the constant presence and the voice of the Giants, whether they're winning a Super Bowl or not winning a lot of games.

We still stay fans and we still listen to you.

Thank you, Bob.

We appreciate it.

- Can I give you one more about the story- - Go.

- About the essence of Wellington Mara?

- Go.

- So, WNEW AM, the longtime home of the Giants.

I'm doing the Giants' pre and post-game show before I took over as the play-by-play.

And the Giants, I think it was '92, Ray Handley year, Giants just played an awful game.

And I do the post-game call-in show at the time of the Giants' point after, and I was pretty rough on the, what we had just witnessed in Giants Stadium.

Next day, I'm in the locker room, Wellington Mara in his normal spot leaning against the wall on the way to the training room, just observing the media and how his players are interacting with the media.

And all of a sudden I see, "Bob come here a second."

Now, I'm like, okay, I'm 26 years old, 25 years old.

I'm out of Fordham.

I'm working for WNEW.

I'm with the Giants, and I'm like, "Oh my God."

And he proceeds to tell me that he and his wife Ann were listening on their way home from the ballgame "And you were pretty rough on the ball club yesterday."

And then he paused, and he said, "Our fans know bad football when they see it.

And that was bad football."

He said, "As long as you keep coming here, doing your job, staying up on everything that's going on, you can always be critical of the team.

You can't lie to our fans.

They know bad football."

He said, "The one caveat.

Never get personal with a specific player.

You can be critical but never get personal."

Which is why if you think about the broadcast with Dick Lynch, Carl Banks over the years that we've had, probably the most critical home radio broadcast you're gonna listen to.

Now, we don't hold back.

Carl doesn't hold back.

- No, you do not.

- But the famous Wellington Mara conversation from mid circa 1992, you can be critical because you can't fool our fans, but never get personal.

- Hey, Bob, greatly appreciate you staying and sharing that story because it also, it just adds to the insight and perspective on Wellington Mara, and also says a lot about you as well.

Bob, thank you so much.

We appreciate it.

- Thanks for having me on.

- You got it.

For "Remember Them" and One-on-One, we remember the great, the Duke of Wellington, Wellington Mara on "Remember Them."

See you next time.

- [Narrator] One-On-One with Steve Adubato is a production of the Caucus Educational Corporation.

Funding has been provided by PSEG Foundation.

NJM Insurance Group.

Hackensack Meridian Health.

The New Jersey Education Association.

United Airlines.

Kean University.

New Jersey Sharing Network.

And by The Turrell Fund, a foundation serving children.

Promotional support provided by New Jersey Globe.

And by New Jersey Monthly.

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