Renewable energy sources like solar power are seen as a way to address climate change, but where should solar arrays go, and what impact are giant solar farms having on Nevada's ecosystems?

Well, that's this week on Nevada Week.

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(Kipp Ortenburger) With nearly endless sunny days and seemingly empty desert landscapes, Nevada appears to be an ideal place to set up solar power plants, but putting up solar panels in the desert is proving to be more fraught than people may realize.

The arrays can take thousands of acres of delicate desert, and moving that power from rural areas and urban centers is not as easy as it seems.

Well, this week on Nevada Week, we'll talk to Patrick Donnelly from the Center for Biological Diversity about the concerns surrounding renewable energy, infrastructure and planning, but we start with Daniel Rothberg, environmental reporter for the Nevada Independent.

Daniel, so good to have you back.

I think the last time we had you on we were talking about water, and now we're talking about renewable energy.

A pleasure to have you.

I want to jump right into this, and let's get kind of an overview here.

The state climate strategy, net-zero greenhouse emissions by 2050, that is the goal.

Give us some perspective of how important renewable energy is to reaching that goal.

(Daniel Rothberg) Renewable energy is a huge part of reaching that goal, and not just the state's climate plan but the national and global imperative to reduce our-- well, to completely cut fossil fuels from our energy usage as much as possible.

The IPCC just released a report earlier this week emphasizing the threats and risks that climate change poses and the economic costs of climate change if we don't act quickly and rapidly to decarbonize our economy.

So there's no question this is an imperative and needs to be occurring, you know, right now.

There's not really any time to wait.

We've known about climate change for decades.

You know, we have deployed solar in Nevada.

Nevada is one of the top states for solar deployment in the country; I think it's number six.

But according to this report, which was compiled by some of the top global scientists, we need to act even more rapidly than we already have across the board in Nevada and across the country.

-Daniel, as you mentioned, solar being the number-one renewable energy source in Southern Nevada, let's talk about as you mentioned expediting this is so important.

What kind of challenges or factors is solar power-- and let's specify this.

I'm talking about utility grade, large solar that we're seeing in some of our rural areas.

What are some of the biggest challenges that we're seeing that's limiting that expedite?

-I think there's a variety of challenges and, you know, one of the difficulties is a lot of these utility-scale projects are on federal public land and, you know, in Nevada the federal government, mainly the Bureau of Land Management, oversees about 67% of the state's land-- the federal government oversees about 85%, and within that the BLM oversees about 67%.

So in order to site these projects, you need to receive up-- you know, go through a permitting process with the federal government that involves a whole group of stakeholders, and there are important reasons for doing that.

You know, this land is not just used for energy development, it's used for recreation, for hiking, for the preservation of important habitat.

We're probably going to talk about the desert tortoise at some point.

But that's not the only challenge.

There are other challenges too.

How close a solar project is to transmission.

You know, whether there is transmission capacity to handle more solar.

That's really important when a developer is looking at where to place solar.

But I really do think one of the biggest challenges right now is figuring out where solar projects-- and I keep referring to solar projects, and that's because in Nevada the renewable potential really revolves a lot around solar.

There is some wind potential and there's definitely some geothermal potential throughout the state, but figuring out where those renewable projects can go is really a huge challenge and is central to what I talked about in your first question which is the need-- in answering the question of where renewables should go is really central to the first point that I made which is the need for more deployment.

-Yes, and the "where" is so important clearly, and all these factors you've already listed of course go into where the "where" is here.

You mentioned BLM as being a major focal point for planning being this is on BLM land.

Let's talk about maybe municipal governments and the state government, and I want to refer to something that's happened recently that you've covered as well.

The largest solar project in the U.S., the Battle Born project near Overton, was pulled.

It was pulled because residents objected there, right there another factor of public opinion coming into play.

Another factor there was that state and municipal governments did not really see eye to eye.

What is the role here in county and municipal governments in Southern Nevada in this decision-making process?

-I think counties and state government have a huge role in this process.

You know, the federal government does manage public lands, but they manage public lands with input from state and local officials of how they would like to see that land managed, in addition to other-- you know, in addition to other interest groups.

So having the state and local governments on the same page, or at least communicating with each other about this, is a really important part of the process.

And there are-- in addition to that, there are especially on the local level existing planning mechanisms that can help federal regulators understand what local communities want before going through a process where maybe they will-- maybe a project will stir up this intense public opposition or public opinion.

The planning process can go first to help developers understand what local communities want, what they don't want, where they would like to see development and where they don't want to see development.

With the Battle Born project in particular, it was going to be the largest project in Nevada I believe, and there were other reasons why I think that project might have been pulled, location to transmission, things like that.

But that's a case where I think, you know, you did have the state government wanting to fast-track that project, but you had the county government kind of say wait a minute.

That isn't a low priority or in a high-conflict area.

There's a lot of other land uses there.

Why don't we prioritize projects in other areas where there aren't as many conflicts.

So I think what we're going to see over the next year or so are more conversations going on between local, state and the federal government to really hammer out a plan on where these projects can go in lower-conflict areas from the outset rather than going through this process, you know, having this kind of pretty public opposition to projects but actually having a plan so everyone's on the same page from the get-go.

-And if I'm hearing you correctly, starting with the municipal level and the planning there is really important to large-scale planning.

You mentioned the tortoise.

I do want to bring that up of course too.

Desert tortoises have been dying after being relocated out of the Yellow Pine solar project, another large project that is currently being constructed, and that leads us to this biodiversity question and making sure that our delicate species are protected.

Where in that discussion again between municipal, state and federal should those conversations be happening, and how early in the planning process?

-Well, I think it's really-- I think it's a really important part of planning, and there's all sorts of mapping and all sorts of tools available for policymakers to understand where a sensitive species' habitat is and where that does and doesn't overlap with potential sites for solar renewable development.

You know, I think we are, in addition to being in a climate crisis also in a biodiversity crisis, and those two things are not unrelated to each other.

I'm not saying they are, but I think that, you know, not only do we have just as humans a responsibility to consider biodiversity in the planning process, there is a federal law, the Endangered Species Act, that requires it and federal regulators are required to consult on these projects and to ensure that species are not being harmed.

You know, the desert tortoise studies have shown that translocation and moving desert tortoise out of their native habitat can be harmful to the species, and Clark County has done a lot of-- you know, for their own development plans has been very cognizant of the problems around desert tortoises and I think it's certainly going to be something that's incorporated into these plans, and I think there's an understanding that it needs to be.

You know, one thing I didn't mention is that developers also have a key role in this planning process.

I think there is a need for understanding on all sides of this issue.

You know, what developers need, what they're looking for and what some of the costs are, and how government can, you know, incentivize what people are calling "smart from the start planning," which is kind of directing these projects into lower-conflict areas, areas that are already developed.

You know, if that is going to cost more, what should the government be doing to provide incentives?

I think that's a really important part of the equation.

-For sure, and I want to transition the conversation mentioning "smart from the start" and also talking about our built environment and being able to access that correctly and close to transmission lines.

A lot of the factors here kind of lead us towards the urban conversation and community-based solar as being part of this.

We've got about two minutes left.

Is that a realistic solution for an area of Southern Nevada to maybe replace some of the rural, high-capacity types of solar we're talking about?

-Yes.

I definitely think, you know, using our built environment and our urban environment as best as we can is a huge part of this conversation, just as it is in the conversation about infill versus sprawl, development.

You know, I think rooftops are a key place to site solar.

I think there are brownfield sites, already developed sites where you can site solar, and obviously there's more emphasis on potentially community solar and making sure those projects are viable.

You know, from the analyses that I have seen, I think that rooftop solar, even if there was solar on every single person's rooftop, there would still likely be a need for utility-scale solar.

But I do think it's absolutely part of the solution.

-Well thank you, Daniel, for being part of this discussion.

Catholic Charities of Southern Nevada has done its part to limit its carbon footprint.

It has installed a solar array on its rooftop.

The Nevada Week team went to the charity's headquarters to check it out.

With plenty of sunshine and open land, Nevada has some of the greatest solar power potential in the nation.

While much of the state's solar power currently comes from huge arrays sprawled across the desert, an increasing amount is coming from smaller, community-based sources like this rooftop at Las Vegas' Catholic Charities of Southern Nevada.

(Marcus Valerio) We're putting solar on all of our eight-acre campus today.

All of the roofs we have here, we're putting solar on top.

This Catholic Charities campus provides food and shelter-related services to approximately 100,000 people each year.

That's a lot of people using a lot of power; 30% of that power will soon come from the campus' solar panels.

This project of 550 kilowatts will reduce approximately 930 carbon dioxide emissions each year which is the equivalent of about 200 automobile emissions in one year.

Catholic Charities of Southern Nevada's new solar project will cost approximately $2 million total.

We were fortunate to receive two low-income solar energy program incentives for this project.

The project partners are Catholic Energies, Nevada Governor's Office of Energy, NV Energy, Bombard Electric, Dri Tech Corporation and loEnergy.

Valerio says small solar projects like this one are important to the area economy and community as a whole.

All of us have a part with climate change increasing, with emissions increasing.

We all have a small piece.

Our project will reduce the emissions of the equivalent of 200 automobiles in one year.

So with more projects like ours as well as larger projects, I think Las Vegas with our abundance of solar light will be able to produce more solar energy as we move forward.

-Thank you, Heather.

Well, joining us now to talk about some of the concerns that conservationists have about large-scale solar is Patrick Donnelly, Nevada state director with the Center for Biological Diversity.

Patrick, thanks so much for being here; we really appreciate it.

-Thanks for having me, Kipp.

-Absolutely.

Because we just watched that clip, let's talk about that first.

Community-based solar, I want to get your perspective.

First off, how effective can community-based solar be, and how feasible is it in a region like Southern Nevada?

(Patrick Donnelly) You know, I think it depends on what our priorities are.

If our priority is decarbonization, cleaning up our energy economy as fast as possible, we could do that on people's rooftops.

We have incredible amounts of rooftop space in Southern Nevada, and if our priority was to make that happen in as democratized a way as possible, we could have rooftops on every-- solar panels on every rooftop in Southern Nevada.

However, our current mode of energy production, the priority is generating returns for shareholders.

NV Energy is a for-profit corporation and they're looking to make a buck, and they don't make a buck when solar is on your rooftop.

So we have not wholeheartedly pursued rooftop solar in the state of Nevada.

We are really pursuing other types of solar development which is what we're here to talk about today.

-For sure, and I mean, I get you.

Make a buck, but then we are also looking at economic diversification and of course renewable energy and maybe large solar is one way to do so.

There are a lot of jobs related to that, a lot of tax money that comes to the state that way.

Is there a balance though, between those two?

-Absolutely and, you know, we are not opposed to large-scale solar.

We want rooftop solar as a priority, but we think there are places you can put large-scale solar without unduly damaging the environment, but that takes a plan.

That takes analysis.

That takes looking at the state and figuring out where are the high-conflict zones and where are the low-conflict zones that we can build without harming endangered species or the environment.

-I want to bring attention to this has been in some national stories but also some local op-eds where green advocacy versus the green energy conversation and there's been some, you know, some opposition to some of the large-scale projects and then also the transmission is what I want to bring attention to here.

You testified during a legislative session, SB 448, which is the Greenlink system, a system that will bring a lot more renewable energy transmission to our state.

You were in opposition to that plan.

Why was that?

-You know, Greenlink is going to open up vast amounts of the state to renewable energy production, and in many cases, some of the most remote and most sensitive parts of the state.

Greenlink North is proposed to go along Highway 50, the "Loneliest Highway in America," and I bet a lot of Nevadans have driven down Highway 50 through Austin and out to Ely, and it's a treasured experience.

Turning it into the loneliest solar farm in America I think is something that a lot of Nevadans would feel pretty queasy about.

It doesn't have to be that way.

We can plan for renewable energy to minimize those conflicts.

Why does Greenlink have to go along Highway 50?

Can it go along Interstate 80?

Interstate 80 is a heavily developed landscape with relatively low ecological values.

It seems like a low-hanging fruit for putting a transmission line and renewable energy development.

Why would we do that through the most remote and most beautiful parts of Nevada along Highway 50?

-Well, I guess that's the question.

I mean, transparency-wise, do we have an answer of why that choice has been made?

-You know, the Bureau of Land Management makes land available for solar development with few encumbrances and very low cost, so it's very attractive for solar developers to go out in the middle of nowhere and plop down a solar project.

I think that's why-- you know, Highway 80 has what's called checkerboard land ownership.

There's some private, there's some public, and it's more complicated to build on.

It doesn't mean it can't be done, but it takes a little bit of effort.

I think, you know, it's seen as cheap and expedient to go out to the middle of nowhere and plop down energy production facilities.

-We heard Daniel already talk about how important in planning that everybody is at the table here.

We talked about municipal government, state government, private as well of course, and then the federal government, as you mentioned, with BLM.

Obviously environmental conservationists need to be at the table as well.

Who else needs to be at the table in these conversations?

-You know, I think the state and the feds have the most important role here.

Certainly the federal government manages millions and millions of acres of the state, so they are definitely a key factor.

But I think the state has a broader purview for planning for renewable energy because they include private lands.

Like I said Interstate 80 provides a cornucopia of locations to put solar energy production, but lots of it is private land.

The state is the one who has the purview over that, and we have a Governor's Office of Energy who could lead the effort here, and the Department of Conservation and Natural Resources has also been heavily involved in our climate planning.

So these agencies have it within their power to take a look broadly at the state and figure out where we can minimize environmental conflicts for these, but someone's got to take the bull by the horns and do it because right now, it's kind of the Wild West out there with renewable energy development.

-Expediency is a big part of this.

We already mentioned that in the previous section.

We do have goals by 2050 to get to net-zero.

When we're talking about planning, I think a lot of the public then goes planning means time, and a lot of time, significant time, especially if we're getting into feasibility studies but also environmental studies and impact studies and things of that nature.

Can this be done?

Can we turn around some of these projects really, really quickly, do you think?

-You know, I think there has to be a balance between the rigor of analysis and the urgency of the moment.

We need to not just decarbonize by 2050, we need to halve our emissions by 2030, and that's nine years from now.

So the analysis does have to proceed rapidly; however, you know, we're just sitting here and I'm telling you hey, you can put some solar up by I-80.

You know, I don't think it takes rocket science to figure out where the high-conflict places are in the state.

It's where's the desert tortoise, where's the greater sage grouse, and where are the rare endemic endangered species?

Now, we can eliminate all those from the map and then boom, you've got your your spots.

Now, it takes a little more analysis than that, but it doesn't have to take the next 10 years to figure out where to put solar.

It could be done in a year or less if the political will and the financial resources were made available to get it done.

-Let's talk specifically more about the protection of some of these delicate species you mentioned, the desert tortoise being one of them, Tiehm's buckwheat is another one in some of the mining going on up north as well.

How important is this?

Of course the public is going to say, you know, taking even the desert tortoise and if we lose a couple desert tortoise but we have expansive solar energy, in the long run that's a much bigger benefit if we are maybe powering 500,000 homes with a large project or something like that.

Give us some perspective on why the protection of this biodiversity is so important to our state.

-Well, we are in a global extinction crisis.

There are species going extinct literally every day around the world and, you know, I sometimes call Nevada the front lines of the extinction crisis because we have so many rare species that live across the state, and we also have a lot of industry that threatens those species.

And biodiversity, the assemblage of all the species on Earth, that's what makes life on Earth possible.

That's why you and I and the human race is here, because biodiversity puts food on our plates and gives us clean air to breathe and clean water to drink.

The extinction crisis threatens life on Earth.

Bring it back down to Nevada, the desert tortoise populations have been crashing.

The desert tortoise is critically imperiled, and it's because of habitat loss, you know.

So the desert tortoise ultimately forms the chief limiting factor on solar development in Southern Nevada.

We can't drive these species extinct while we are transitioning our energy system.

Meanwhile, it's not an either/or proposition.

There are many places we can develop that don't drive species extinct.

So we need to not have black and white thinking about the siting because there are good enough places in the state of Nevada.

-Yes, and that's an important part of this conversation, the compromise, and not going black and white here.

But then that means maybe compromising some areas that are potentially at risk or could be, you know, delicate areas or delicate species.

Do you see there being some compromise there if you did have an area that had, you know, desert tortoise or some other species but it was a feasible place and the best place to put a plan in?

Is there compromising that can be done there?

-You know, we only say it's the best place because it's a place where a company with access to capital happens to own a lease.

That is not the decision-making process we should be employing, you know, whoever happens to have good funding and happens to have a lease somewhere.

We need broad-scale planning to limit the destruction of these habitats and then, you know, in some cases we're going to have to tell the leaseholders I'm sorry, this is a bad place for solar.

You just can't build here.

Why don't you apply for a lease over here in a new zone we've designated that has less conflict?

So there are ways we can do it, but we can't be locked into this idea that, you know, whatever energy company happens to want to develop somewhere automatically it's the right place.

-We've got about a minute left.

I want to go back to the planning side.

Of course we can talk about a very comprehensive plan that could include solar transmission, other renewable energy that is statewide, or we can talk about more micro-planning here when we are talking about regions, and as you said, focusing maybe on just one or two different leases.

What makes most sense?

-You know, I think broad-scale planning is important because it's not just Southern Nevada.

I think a lot of the focus has been on Southern Nevada; however, this is a big state and there's lots of this state that doesn't have desert tortoises or greater sage grouse on it, that doesn't have endangered species.

So I do think the broadest scale is really important because when we get really focused on some desert tortoise habitat in Southern Nevada, we have to say well, where are we going to put it?

The question is, is it appropriate or not?

-Well, Patrick, thank you so much.

We really appreciate your time.

-Thank you.

-Now, Nevada Week contacted NV Energy and BLM to be part of this discussion, but they declined to participate.

Thank you as always for joining us this week on Nevada Week.

For any of the resources discussed on this show, please visit our website at vegaspbs.org/nevadaweek.

You can also find us on social media at @nevadaweek.

Thanks again, and we'll see you next week.

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