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- How schools will reopen amid COVID, tonight, on Behind The Headlines.

[intense orchestral music] I'm Eric Barnes with The Daily Memphian, and thanks for joining us.

We are joined tonight by three CEOs from three different charter school networks here in Shelby County.

First up is Bobby White, CEO of Frayser Community Schools.

It's a group that includes two middle schools and a high school.

Thanks for being here again.

- Thank you for having me, sir.

- Yetta Lewis is CEO of Gestalt Community Schools.

That group includes two elementary schools, two middle schools and a high school.

Yetta, thanks for being here.

- Thank you.

- And Roblin Webb is CEO of Freedom Prep, a group that also includes two elementary schools, two middle schools and a high school.

Thanks for being here.

- Thank you.

- Along with Daja Henry, who covers education for The Daily Memphian.

So, we'll start with, I mean, this is just a strange time.

I asked all of you before when we were kind of getting ready, when does school start?

And Roblin, you sort of shook your head and said, ah and sighed, technically school starts 8-9.

We have CDC guidance that came out.

We have some American Academy of Pediatrics information that came out, SCS, Shelby County Schools, gave some guidance.

You all are separate from SCS but generally, if not always follow the kind of guidelines and so on.

What are all the factors that go into, will you reopen in person given the Delta variant, given all the unknowns?

And will you do a hybrid situation?

What will you do?

And it's less than a month away.

- It's a great question.

So yes, we'll reopen in person.

We don't have a choice actually.

So based on state law, we cannot offer a hybrid education and as charter schools, we actually also cannot offer a virtual option, a separate virtual school for our students.

So we will absolutely open and all of the factors that go into consideration for either opening on August 9th or actually delaying possibly a couple of weeks are really just to make sure that we have all of our safety precautions in place.

I mean, this is the first time that we're having all of our 2,500 kids back in the building since March 20th.

- And you did some, you came on the show when we were doing it by Zoom and you opened for part of the time, close, I mean, kind of just, and talk very frankly about the difficulties of virtual learning, of the isolation of the kids, all of that.

Are you glad to be back in person although you've got all these unknowns about COVID?

- Absolutely.

- Yeah.

- Absolutely, our kids learn best in person.

Absolutely.

I mean, virtual learning worked for a few kids but not most.

- Yeah, Yetta, let me bring you in and you also, you know, your group stretches from a couple of elementary schools to high school, are the approaches, I assume they are, the approaches are different with the elementary school kids who by definition haven't been vaccinated, in high school and even in middle school, you've got kids who potentially are.

How do you weigh vaccination among students and staff in how you re-open?

- Right.

We actually did a pulse check of families and staff members on their vaccination rates but we realize those rates are low and they mimic just what is happening across the city.

There are not enough folks being vaccinated and with that, we're not gonna police vaccination, we're gonna promote it and we're gonna factor it in and that's why we moved to continuing our mask mandate.

- Yeah, bring Bobby, and Bobby with the middle school and the high school and then I'll go to Daja.

The SCS said, we're gonna continue to have, we want everyone to mask, we want students to mask, the American Academy of Pediatrics recommended that, CDC recommended that, vaccinated or not, everyone should vaccinate.

So one, is that what you're gonna do with, all staff will be masked whether or not they're vaccinated?

- Yeah, we came to that conclusion several months back.

- Got it.

- And so, absolutely, all of our folks or it's a requirement, our parents pushed us on that.

- They wanted it.

- We have a Parent Council that meets monthly and specifically in the middle schools with the sixth graders, many of them not being of age to be vaccinated.

- Okay, Right.

- Right?

And, with this kind of like honors system of vaccinations right now, we just always wanna just lead with being safe, lead, the safest that we can be is that everyone's masked up.

- And one point before I go to Daja, the SCS said, I mean, one big point of controversy or frustration or disappointment, you know, depending on your perspective last year was the lack of activities among, at SCS and I believe at your schools as well and I could be wrong about that but sports, theater, mock trial, youth gov, whatever, music, all those activities and field trips that are a big part of school, will you be going ahead with all the activities as well?

- Currently, we're moving forward with activities.

- Yeah.

- But with Delta variant and with how fluid everything is, hmm.

- Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Let me bring in Daja.

- Yeah, I just wanna follow up on one thing.

So we kind of ended this school year with parents and students having the choice of whether they wanted to be virtual or in-person, and now we're not, now next year they're not having that choice.

So what did that look like ending this school year?

Were there a majority or not as many students coming in person and how are you moving forward to accommodate not having that choice?

- Sure.

We probably had about 25 to 30% of our students come back to the campus.

I actually think it's criminal that parents don't have the choice for that, this coming school year.

I think it's about partisanship and about what side you're on and the decisions that are made.

You know, I often say that when America has a cold, black America has the flu.

Memphis is black America in Tennessee and as a result, our parents should have the choice to continue to allow their babies to learn at home if they choose to but we are, as Roblin said earlier, we don't have that option.

So we have to go back in person.

- I see you nodding and not to challenge you on this because I wanna acknowledge that all of this is so complicated and it was just an incredibly difficult year for you all and for students and families.

You talked though about how, and you talked about it when you were on in the winter, virtual learning wasn't working for people but so, you still want that choice though.

I mean, how do you reconcile that, that it really wasn't working for very many students but it also should still be a choice?

- I think that's a great question.

I think parents should have a choice mainly for the safety of their kids to be honest and there were, and although it was not working for the majority, a few kids actually thrived.

They thrived being at home.

They thrived not, some kids are overstimulated when they're in that environment in school and so some kids thrived, those kids could continue in a virtual environment and be fine and their parents know that they're safe in their homes.

So I do think parents should have a choice.

Albeit, the majority of kids work better in person.

- Yetta, your experience with virtual.

- Yeah, We actually had maybe close to about 30 to 40% report in person and while I agree with Roblin that the virtual space isn't for everyone, we started chipping away at what works for both teachers and students and started to perfect it and make it better but it still was far aways inferior to what we could do in person.

So students, I felt, were cheated in a sense and not only cheated in the kind of quality interaction but the human interaction with each other, right?

There was so much that you can do and our teachers did a great job in trying to create that interaction, but that was sorely missed in schools.

- Yeah, Daja, we'll go back to you.

- And just to further complicate things, there's this legislation from the state saying that third grade students who are not reading at these proficiency levels will be held back and with this threat of learning loss and the virtual learning, how are you all accommodating that and how are you anticipating that that will affect what you have going next year?

- We'll start with Roblin.

- Sure, I mean we are doubling up on all efforts in terms of academic interventions.

So we started summer school.

We had summer school this year and we pretty much are going year round for the next few years.

We also have used some of that federal funding that we've received to double up on teachers in K-8 and so each classroom has two teachers, they're interventionists and they're teacher residents there and we also have, we're partnering with City Gear to do tutoring for our students as well too and so we are just really pushing hard in terms of intervention to push so that our kids do not have to be retained in third grade.

It's disruptive for a number of reasons.

- Excuse me, I'm sorry, is that happening this summer?

Or is it gonna kick in when school starts- - Tutoring is happening this summer and it will continue into the school year.

- And what are the logistics?

And you also have third graders, I mean, how does it work?

Was there a test at the end of the year or is there a test at the, like walk through the nitty gritty of how this is triggered and monitored.

- It is based on the TNReady test and the promotion and retention of students and it will disproportionately impact black and brown students in urban areas across the state of Tennessee.

So Memphis and Nashville will have that impact and a lot of the work is what Roblin mentioned, the small group intervention and tutoring that we started in the summer and will continue throughout the school year but it's also the parent piece for us, is making parents aware of the law.

There were so many parents and there still are that are not aware of the possible impact of retaining their child and you know, that transition from third to fourth grade, it's going from learning how to read, to reading to actually learn.

Critical point of the year but this coupled with being in a pandemic, we need some space and grace to really drill down and put those interventions in before the law.

- And so the laws been implemented, right?

- It actually goes- - Approved in the session, when does it kick?

- It kicks in in this next testing period.

So in April, I guess of 2022, 2022.

So the current second graders that are moving into third will have that impact.

- So if they don't pass the test come April of next year, you'll be notified, the family will be notified that, is there a grace period of say, hey, okay, you do summer school and get tested again and then you can move on or do we even know the logistics of how that works?

- We don't know all of the guidance yet.

- Yeah.

- We're hoping that there's some intervention in between to give a child a chance to improve and families to partner with the schools for improvement but we don't have all of the details yet.

- Yeah, go ahead Bobby.

- I don't have third graders, but I, like, holistically this past year, we need it back.

- Just a full reset.

- That folks should be thinking about what does that really look like?

Attendance virtually, everyone struggled with it, right?

Our summer school for promotion doubled what it traditionally has been, this impacted us in a way that nothing else has ever impacted us and I don't think people are having the right conversations because we should be thinking about what is best for kids as opposed to saying, oh, we're just gonna hold them back.

They're not at grade level.

I mean, this year was challenging for everyone on this globe and we should be thinking about it that way.

- Right and correct, third graders were first graders during when they went out and so-- - When they first, right, because back to 2019-- - It was first graders, yeah.

- Okay right.

- Yeah, they were first graders.

- Right, right, we talked at one of the last shows we did in the studio when we saw each other this morning was- - It was March 12th and March 13th- - Of 2020.

- I think Joris Ray said hey, Shelby County Schools, it was a Monday before Spring Break and they.

- Yeah, let me go to Daja.

- And just following up on that again, is there, are you all taking any additional measures before that third grade period to measure what, which way, if they are being proficient because I know we've spoken before about seeing that virtual learning wasn't working for the younger student specifically.

- I mean, we always have our internal assessments, so we know we would be doing a disservice to ourselves if we didn't know what the test was gonna look like when we get to it in the spring.

So we always have internal assessments and we use NWEA MAP assessments as well, too and so we know prior to that test in the spring where our students are and can start to provide additional interventions then, and even start to have conversations with parents prior to the spring test coming.

- Let me go back to something you said Yetta about the disservice, I mean, you all have alluded to this or said it, the disservice, particularly to black students and students, in urban areas, is there a point, someone out there is listening and probably saying, okay, but isn't there a point at which a student should be held back and is, because of what you're talking about that criticality and what, if you view the law in the most well-intended sense, so just bear with me for a second.

It was if you don't learn a certain proficiency of reading going into fourth, fifth grade, you just, you spiral down, you all know this way better than me, right?

Because you're not reading US history to read US history.

You're not reading the science book and digesting the science, so what is the answer if it isn't holding kids back at the end of third grade?

- Right, I think the answer is around timing.

So it is, this is all aligned to what is going on with the pandemic and a year and a half, almost two years of just disruption to the education system, now to put in the law.

So there are situations in which students should be retained and especially if they're factors that are able to be controlled but this pandemic was a variable that we could not control.

So we're now playing catch up and that's not fair to the individual student.

No one could control this global pandemic but in many cases there could be an opportunity to kind of look at the holistic view of the child, work with the family to determine a best plan for progression or promotion.

We're not given that option right now.

- Right.

Would one answer have been to at minimum delay the implementation a full year, like not to 2022 but 2023, from what you're saying, I mean to give a little more recognition of the horrible year everybody had and trying to get them caught up, I see you nodding Roblin and another question is there's money now because of the pandemic as I understand it, you correct me if I'm wrong for expanded summer school and expanded tutoring, I assume you'd like to have that money permanently, that that would help with some of these issues in terms of, if there's gonna be this hard cutoff and we're gonna hold kids, retain kids I should use but what we used to call holding kids back, should that be balanced out with ongoing money to help that child not be held back, to have after-school tutoring and summer school and so on?

Is that- - Absolutely.

- Okay.

- Yeah, this is not a one, it should not be a one or a two year infusion.

This should be a permanent solution because kids are behind at least two years.

- Yeah.

- Yeah.

- Daja.

- And you kind of alluded to what you're doing with that money, I wanna know what both of you are doing with that money this year to kind of catch up.

- Our biggest, I think, expenditure is around interventions and making small group intervention more less of a whole classroom, but more small group and with that, it means staffing and specialists in reading and mathematics really coming in and training both teachers but also working directly with students.

- So for us, one, summer school this year and the camp, kids having actual activities because of what they missed interacting with their peers over the past 18 months.

In addition to what Yetta spoke about is we're spending money on their trauma, you know, for one, racism within itself is traumatic and I've always, I already talked about like the challenges that we're going through as a country, what is going on in our communities, in black communities is exponentially higher, right?

And so there's that trauma there.

So this SEL, the social emotional learning that we're talking about.

We are in our middle schools getting rid of our school resource officers and are moving towards having social workers and behavior specialists if you will not necessarily the title, more of a restorative justice, restorative practices type of role.

We're moving towards a no suspension policy unless it's a zero tolerance offense, something that you would have to be arrested for.

That would be the only reason why we would suspend you.

We see the last 24 months, 18 months as being a wake up call for us to start doing things a different way, to meet the needs of the students that we serve.

- And I'm sorry to interrupt you, school resource officer is securi- - Yes.

- What we think of as a security guard or an off duty police officer or is it an actual MPD police officer?

- Well, it is just, well, just depends.

- Depends, okay.

- It just depends.

- Okay.

- Just depends, yeah.

- I wanna know more about that behavioral intervention strategy that you mentioned.

What does that look like as far as discipline in school?

- Oh, great question.

So what I started to think about over these last 18 months was, you know, who I am and why did I build this organization out and George Floyd and Breonna Taylor and all of the things that took place, I started to think about, are we perpetuating the institutional racism, reaffirming supremacy, white supremacy or are we doing things outside of the box the way charter organizations say that they are?

I wasn't too happy with what I saw in the mirror.

So as a result, I wanted to see things from an actively anti-racist perspective and there were three pillars that I wanted to look at that through, disciplinary practices, family engagement, and social emotional learning and so those disciplinary practices, the one, the first thing is the technical, we're going to get rid of suspensions.

Well, what does that look like in the school?

Well, we already had kind of like this hierarchy of things, what we do when a student does this or that.

Well, I'm not sure where we were holding people accountable but the reason why we weren't is because of these biases that we bring, not only as white folk but as black people, middle-class black folk with the students that we serve to create this kind of, help them to understand adaptively why they are making these decisions and what their actions are leading to as it relates to our students, that's where we're headed towards.

So there are a number of things that we do along with having a restorative justice practices person, along with having a reset room, along with having in school suspension, along with just a number of things that we have but it's all grounded in being actively anti-racist, seeing and valuing the students that we serve the way they should be and adapting our thinking and that's just the page that we're on at this point.

- We have five minutes left here, critical race theory, obviously and this is a very hot button thing now and suddenly we're cable TV news and we're yelling at each other and all that stuff.

I don't wanna do that.

Please.

[Eric laughing] I'm looking right at you, what is critical race theory?

- It's something that's taught in law school.

So as a former lawyer, it's in law school, - You are a former- - I'm a former lawyer- - We knew we were gonna come back to this- - It's coming out, it's taught in law school and grad school and it's just a theory that racism is systemic.

- Yeah.

- Basically, yeah.

- And do you teach, I mean, how do you approach racism in your, from again, from elementary school to the high schools, how do you approach those issues in your schools?

- We teach kids about themselves.

So, I mean, we serve a majority of black and brown children and we teach them about themselves and how they are members of society and how society affects them one way or the other.

We've always had a class from day one called liberation arts that teaches black children so many different things.

We actually had an experiment where, and we're not even always even talking about race.

We had an experiment where kids were discriminating because of homosexuality and we did the blue-eyed, brown-eyed experiment but with our kids, since all of our kids, most of their eyes are brown, we did glasses and not glasses to teach them to treat everyone the same.

It was just fascinating how that came out but we've always had lessons in character and culture, in liberation arts at our schools.

- Let me get Yetta and I'll come back to Bobby.

- Yeah and there's no, you know, with all of the debate that is going on and what critical race theory is and is not, which I don't think people have a clear understanding of what it is.

What we do know is there's no K12 critical race curriculum.

So why do we have a bill for that, right?

So it gets you wondering why is that so important right now?

But what we do at Gestalt is teach kids about their own identity, their own self-worth and their own self-empowerment.

So that work is threaded through all of our work in literature, seeing images, black and brown kids in the literature and reading authors that represent them is so important to our work.

- And I assume, and just a couple minutes left here, I assume you've been doing that, that's not a thing that started in the last year or two?

- Not anything new, from our inception.

- Yeah, which is what?

Eight years ago we talked about before Bobby, you wanted to add something.

- Sure, I'd just like to call the legislators out and ask any one of them, do they even know what it is?

- Right.

- Right, as Roblin talked about, this is theory that you don't learn until you are in college, deep in college.

My dissertation was done through the lens of the critical race theory.

So I gathered that at the end of the day, this is more about this kind of manifesto about what people wanna see as opposed to what they actually understand.

- Yeah, it strikes me, and before I go to Daja, it's one of those terms that people don't hear anymore.

What they hear is what they, I don't even know that I hear it correctly anymore.

I didn't know, I didn't know that, I'm pretty in tune with the news and things like that.

I had no idea it came out of law school and grad school and all that.

So it's a phrase that takes on a life of itself.

- Our teachers in high school are not teaching CRT.

- Yeah, yeah, Daja, with a couple of minutes left.

- Just going back to what school will look like next year, I've seen some concerns about younger students or students in special education populations with the mask and things.

Have you all had any difficulties or challenges with the younger kids or special education?

And if so, how are you accommodating?

- You know, it's interesting.

Kids are more compliant than adults when it comes to masks.

I'm speaking to myself and Bobby White, my colleague next to me, so we have had no issues with kids in masks.

Kids understand more than adults do and they are perfectly okay with wearing a mask.

- It has been amazing.

Early on we came back to school in February with the elementary and we were so worried, are they gonna keep it on, especially a kindergarten child?

But actually they were the most compliant which was surprising, right?

- Wow, wow, yeah.

- With just a minute left and I probably should have been at the top.

Y'all are charter schools.

Your group has been around for 12 years Roblin, in 20 seconds, what is a charter school and why is it important and how is it different than another school?

Public, private, et cetera.

- Yeah, a charter school is just a school that is governed and run autonomously from the traditional school district and it's important because it gives parents a choice to choose the type of education they want for their child.

- And how is your relationship with Shelby County Schools?

- I believe it's great.

We have a great relationship.

Really we're in partnership, we are part of, we are a Shelby County School.

We just have different hours and may have a different calendar year.

- Okay, all right, thank you all for being here.

We'll have you all back.

It was great conversation.

Daja, thank you for being here and join us again next week.

We've got coming up soon, Rory Thomas, the new head of Memphis Medical District, a number of other shows coming up.

So stay tuned and we will see you next week.

[intense orchestral music] [acoustic guitar chords]