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- How Shelby County schools will reopen tonight, on behind the headlines.

[upbeat music] I'm Eric Barnes with the Daily Memphian.

Thanks for joining us.

Today is the third in a series of shows we've been doing on the challenges of reopening schools, specifically the Shelby County schools.

But in the past few weeks we've talked to an epidemiologist about social emotional risks of reopening as well as the COVID risks, obviously of reopening.

We've talked to a number of researchers who've looked at academic studies around the country and even around the world about best practices for reopening and the risks of learning loss.

We had a head of the Freedom Prep Charter School Network, five charter schools covering pre-K through 12 who had opened hybrid had closed back down.

All those shows are available on wkno.org or you can go even go to YouTube and search for behind the headlines.

Today, I'm very pleased to be joined by the chair of the Shelby County school board, Miska Clay Bibs.

Miska, thank you for being here.

- Hi Eric, thank you for having me.

- And I'm also joined by Bill Dries, reporter with The Daily Memphian.

As we start this, you know this last few shows we've done focused on this and in the fall we had superintendent Joris Ray on, I think twice in the fall talking about how, excuse me how virtual learning was going.

We had superintendents from all, I believe all of the, the suburban schools have been on.

I mean, if I've learned anything it's a simple thing, which is, this is not a simple issue.

And so nothing I ask today or say today is in any way meant to reflect that there are easy answers and simple answers to this incredibly complicated problem.

As in the, over the course of this month since we started these shows you all have announced you're going to reopen the Shelby County schools pre-K through fifth, will open on March 1st and then the sixth through 12th graders on March eight.

My first question is, I mean you've been under intense pressure from the state, from local legislators, from the governor.

Some even even talking about withholding funding to Shelby County schools, if they did not reopen and Shelby County schools is the last system not to have reopened in an optional or even hybrid way.

Nashville Metro schools being the, or Metro Davidson schools being the other that chose to be up in a couple of weeks ago.

So the real question is, are you reopening by choice or simply because the pressure got to be too great.

- In that very question, there's a combination.

I think we are definitely, at this point are opening by choice.

There is a borderline and you have to get to a majority for any decision to move forward.

So I think, you know that is me letting you know that there's a majority of the board members who have said, okay now is a good time.

You know, when we make guiding decisions and, you know have guiding conversations with superintendent Ray, that is exactly, you know what we think about as we move forward.

And the reality of it is there's still, there was absolutely some pressure from the state around what this looks like.

So it's a combination.

You know, again I'm glad you prefaced this whole conversation about there is no easy answer because there's not.

I think, you know, one of the reasons why we stayed closed as long as we had is because we just have a different demographic, of families that we're serving and community looks different.

So for us, we, it was make making sure we maintain that our families were safe and our teachers were safe.

So we are where we are today.

And I think based upon the fact that people, I think, also, this is a community issue.

You know, we need the community to understand that they must take, you know, things say safely as well and the numbers are going down.

They're kind of consistent right now which is a great thing.

So I hope they continue to stay that way.

- Let me ask you just some logistical questions and then we'll bring Bill Dries in, this is optional for parents.

- It is optional.

- Yes, the teachers will, who've been doing virtual school from maybe from their homes.

All teachers will be back in the building whether they're teaching in-person class or they're doing virtual school, do I have that correct?

- That is correct.

- And then the folks who have been pressuring you to reopen, other school systems as well, but obviously just talking about Shelby County schools, there are number of things they point to.

One of the main ones is the CDC guidelines, which wrapped up, you know, went to a number of studies have been done that so far.

And with a fair number of school systems having opened some staying open the whole time, the schools have not been the source of a dramatically large amount of spread and infection.

There are many caveats on that.

That there was enough distancing, there were masks, there were proper ventilation.

Do you feel like the CDC guidelines are, you're gonna be able to meet those within Shelby County schools and thus this is safe to do.

- So, you know, first, let me just say great question.

'Cause I know people are bringing it up and, you know trying to use that force around as a guiding principle.

The reality of it is though the guidelines and I think oftentimes guidelines are made not necessarily with who we are in mind.

You know, we are, Well, I would say this Shelby County schools is the center of community.

I think a lot of where we are is happened because we have maintained and been vigilant around keeping families safe at home.

So that's one thing it's also community aspect to this because now, you know families are going back into buildings, it will shift.

The reality of it is when you have guidelines, my question would be, because we are actually the number two employer in the city and number three in the whole state I mean I have those reversed.

But the reality of is, so you're saying that the center of community now is going back into the building.

So we have to be extra cautious around what that looks like.

So that's why I often question around or make the statement that those are guidelines and guiding principles.

And we're going to do everything we can do to meet that.

I think families who have decided to go in and that number is about 31, 32% and the rest are staying home.

So in that reality, there should not be a problem.

The, well, some school, last question before I go to Bill, will some schools maybe because of ventilation or just their physical layout, the physical, you know that you won't be able to get enough distancing, will, some schools may be not open, or will all of them be open?

Well, I mean, the school itself is only is only, it's based upon who's deciding to go in.

So let's keep that as the number one thing because there are some schools that a whole school community may decide, we're not going into the building.

Let's be realistic about that.

When you have over 75% of your family saying, they do not want to go back into a building.

There may be some schools that still may have adults only in the building.

Let me bring in Bill Dries.

And we were doing a first, 10-and-a-half years we've been doing this show and Bill is joining us by phone because it's still feels like 2020 today.

But Bill, thanks for being here by phone and go ahead with that, Miska Clay Bibs, the chair of the Shelby County school board.

- Thank you, Eric and sorry for the inconvenience this morning as we record this.

Chairwoman, let me ask you about where parents are on this and you cited the figure of 31 to 32% choosing to go back to in-person classes.

I think sometimes we get the impression that parents are all of one mind on this.

Give me an idea of what you hear from parents about this.

- Let me tell you in the community that I represent, which is you know, parts of Hickory Ridge, Hickory Hill community, parts of South East Memphis, parts of white Haven, parts of South Memphis in the airport corridor.

They've been very clear with me that they are not going back into the building.

You know, they are overwhelmingly stating that that is something that they are, you know, concerned with and they wanna make sure that they stay safe.

You know, and I, and I'm saying overwhelming because you know, there may be some families within you know, my district can say yes, but the majority of them that have reached out to me have been very clear that they are not.

You know, I think when you still have about, when you have over 70% with the last time we did a survey and we are giving them another opportunity to change the choice right now, as we speak before March 1st hits, the numbers were over 70% saying no and the rest saying yes.

So I think what is happening is in this conversation people are forgetting that the families who are saying no had been very vigilant about no, they're not ready yet.

- And when was the previous survey that you did where you asked parents to indicate their choice?

- It was done like around mid winter because originally when we had, the thinking was we were saying in February, because it was right before the holiday break around that time.

And I think because we were really being hopeful that vaccines would be available earlier.

And that has been a large part of the conversation in now that vaccines are now becoming more available which for me was something that I really wanted to have as a resource for teachers and for families before making that decision.

- Do you know do you have verifiable figures at this point on what the learning loss might be from the time that we've been away from in-person classes, because as you know, there's a lot of discussion about that and there are even some numbers that are being thrown around about what the learning loss might look like.

- Yeah, you know, I would say this, we did a committee meeting about a couple months ago on learning loss.

And it was just really showing that the learning loss is not any greater than what it would have been had we been in the building.

You know, I can definitely refer you to those numbers from our chief academic officer Dr. Antonio Bert, but he was, we use mastery connect, is how we capture information.

And within that, it was showing that part of it was some of our, you know, our early learning students, like our pre-K through second graders, were actually a little bit ahead of schedule and just right on par because of the family involvement that they're getting.

But the reality of it is the numbers are not as skewed as what people are using around what learning loss looks like for us.

Because again, I think the disconnect that people have had with Shelby in particular around this conversation, is teachers are teaching.

Teachers are really showing up.

I visited virtual classrooms several times in my district and they are really showing up and I have to applaud them for all of the hard work that they're doing.

- I know that recently you were able to get some vaccinations for teachers.

It is, is your goal here to get what vaccinations you can for teachers prior to the, this phased in reopening for in-person classes?

- Absolutely, I think, you know, and I'm talking from my personal perspective, you know, again I always maintain we're a board of nine and, you know there means nine different opinions.

But my personal opinion was the fact that I realized that vaccines really needs to be a resource as we ask teachers to come into buildings.

So I'm excited that there has been a bigger push around making sure that that's available.

Unfortunately, one of those days was right in the middle of a snow storm that happened earlier this week but we're also just heard recently that they are trying to push more vaccines to us.

So hopefully that will get going faster.

And, you know, the County commission also is they're pushing on their side to make sure vaccines become more available.

- And before I send you back to Eric, in that regard, is the school system involved in talks with the state about moving teachers up in the line so to speak for vaccinations?

- We absolutely have had that conversation several times, we did not get an answer.

So we're thankful for those who've decided to help us advocate.

- Was, a quick thing on vaccinations.

There was a little bit of Dr. Joris Ray superintendent got a vaccine this past week when there was suddenly an, as has happened in many, many cases around the, the city and County, suddenly vaccine is available, they don't want it to go to waste and, you know, shot them out he was able to get a vaccine.

Some people pushed back that wasn't appropriate.

He said that, "Look, I'm modeling good behavior.

We do have some hesitancy among teachers.

It's been true across the board.

All kinds of professions where there's hesitancy to get it."

Was it appropriate for Dr. Ray to get a shot?

- Absolutely, I mean, when I say it was appropriate because he really, if buildings are open, he's gonna be in the building.

Now, one of the things that I, most of my school visits that I've done with him have been all in person.

So that's how I know what's happening inside those buildings in my district, had been with him.

Then my virtual visits of course had been aligned.

But the reality of it is, when I choose to go in a building most of those times I'm going with him.

So he is absolutely in and out, in and out of buildings on the regular.

So if he's asking teachers to go back that means he's showing up in the building as well.

- Do you, on that issue of hesitancy or resistance to getting the vaccine, do you, have you all surveyed teachers and staff on that front?

Do you have any sense if it is widespread resistance or is it a small number?

- I think early on, they did a survey asking teachers about who would be interested in taking the vaccine.

And I don't wanna misquote the number but it was probably around 40% who went ahead and said yes that they would, and this was way before we even know when the vaccine was gonna be available.

- Got you, got you.

Which is a lifetime ago.

On this issue of learning loss, the other concern folks have, people have had and have brought up and I've talked to educators about this is kids who are just sort of have disappeared or are only erratic in logging into virtual school.

That is obviously, even one kid is very concerning but some have talked about very widespread issues about that, of kids who are just kind of not logging in not getting on their zoom calls, the classrooms.

Do you know what those numbers are and what all can you do about it right now?

- I don't know what those numbers are but I will say this is an opportunity because we are pushing them.

These are the same questions.

You know, Eric, thank you for asking.

These are the same questions that we as a board ask our administration around what are we gonna do about it?

And they have a strong family community engagement plan as well as a strong academic plan in order to be able to meet the needs of those families.

Because the reality of it is, I think as I said in a different interview is that none of this is normal.

And we're trying to put normal, make this a normal situation with a normal fix.

So it's gonna take actually extra effort.

It's gonna take extra input from families.

It's gonna take extra input for all involved in order for us to make sure that we, you know, feel all of the gaps.

And this is the opportunity.

You know, I don't look at things in a negative.

I always see an opportunity for growth.

So this is an opportunity for growth for our family and community engagement, as well as some of our truancy team to work together in collaboration around what it looks like to connect with families.

- The, we talk about learning loss and you were talking about, you know, not as bad as the numbers and that people are throwing around.

But do you think that there will be at some point we will get past this, right?

I mean, at some point.

Will there be a need at that point to address the kids who have fallen behind, the kids who haven't been able or have chosen or just for whatever reason have not been able to log in and participate in virtual school.

People have talked about, and the state has talked about summer camps or summer school.

There's potential of tutoring.

What are your plans for those kids who have fallen behind somewhat or dramatically to get them caught back up?

- Great question, Eric.

And I'm just gonna start off with saying what I hope that this same level of advocacy and concern is will happen beyond this pandemic.

In Shelby County schools we've been working really hard just in general making sure we offer opportunities for students during the summer to be able to catch them up.

You know, we have our superintendents learning Academy that has been happening for the past several years that we make available to all students who, whose families shoots for them to attend.

Our summer school, you know, options are robust.

We make sure that we have them connected.

We also have fall in spring learning Academy so this is not new for us.

So I think that's the aspect of it.

I wanna just start off by saying the work that we're doing is very consistent.

Again, I hope that the same people who are pushing for advocating for quote, unquote learning loss and summer programming, keep it up way beyond the pandemic because this is the work Shelby County schools has been doing for quite some time.

And this just means we're revving it up.

These are the same things we will consistently do.

These are the same things that we wanna make sure are available, but more importantly, we wanna make sure for those who are not familiar with it are familiar with it and make sure that they sign up.

- One more question before I go back to Bill.

And that is one of the other, in the series of shows that we've done lately, and I've seen it elsewhere and heard it elsewhere, that people point to for the the need to reopen is the social-emotional aspect of kids being isolated, of kids, you know, just, just, I mean, depression and I mean just terrible stats on suicidal thoughts.

And we talked to an expert about that last week.

These are national kind of stats.

Some kids aren't doing well with this, right?

They don't get to play, they don't get to see friends, they don't have socialization.

How much does that weigh on you as the board chair and as a board, as a school system, as a whole?

I think it weighs on us heavily period.

You know, we take our SEL programming very important.

Even before the pandemic, we always, let me not say we always, there was a group of us that really pushed the thought around beefing up what our SEL programming looked like.

And then the pandemic hit.

Luckily we had already decided to make some investments in that.

So for those who are choosing to come back into the building, they will now have access to that.

And then even when the pandemic first started we made sure that we had opportunities for connection around mental health that were really important and it is something.

But I think the other aspect is like moving it, you know out broader is that this is happening to everyone.

It's not just the students.

I think, you know, it's important for us to understand the fact that this is happening across the nation.

And it's also happening to adults.

As I mentioned to someone in another interview I have literally been at my desk and doing, you know phone calls and working from my desk since March 15th of last year.

So there's, you know, I, you know adults are not having the same interaction.

My son is a first semester college student.

He is doing, you know, college courses online.

And we're having that conversation around how this looks so different for them.

So a lot of people are being hit across, you know a lot of, you know, different communities.

The reality of it is, it's gonna take all of us hands on deck to make sure that this looks different.

And it's also saying, pulling a community with it.

You know, it's not just them being in the school building, it's also whoever else it is that they come in contact with supporting them through it as well.

- Let me bring Bill back in by phone.

- All right.

And, you know, talking about just literal examples I'm gonna be the guy to ask about the digital divide here again too after experiencing a bit of it this morning.

But, anyway, I think we all knew that the digital divide was an issue in our community before COVID-19 ever reared it's head.

So what do you think we know about the state of that digital divide in Memphis that maybe we didn't know or what have we found out about it that has confirmed some of the things we thought about it before?

- Great question Bill.

I think because we were one of the first districts in the nation to be able to go one-to-one, you know, what we see is that it is definitely some more growth opportunities regarding connection, not about, you know not about having the device, not about having an access to hotspot because we did all of those things.

But the reality of it is as a, you know, community when I talk about, think about like both governments working together to find out how to have a better just logistically, a better system around, you know whether it's fiber optics or whether it's towers whatever it is that needs to happen, Rodman whatever it is that needs to happen.

I'm not a techie in that sense so I'm just throwing terms out there but whatever it is that needs to happen in order for us to have better connectivity this past year has shown us that there's still some work that needs to be done.

Because there is definitely some, a different round of connection that happens kind of in the North Haven, Woodstock Bolton, Vegeta community and then where I am in South East Memphis community you know, we're pretty stable but here lately it gets kind of sketchy.

So then, you know, then I hear from families who own the South Memphis and the white Haven side of my community that represents, so it's different everywhere.

So this is an opportunity I think for government to come together for a better infrastructure.

- All right.

And in the special session of the legislature, when these bills were passed on summer school and afterschool programs to help catch up students, was there enough state funding included in that to get the job done here in our city?

- Well, you know, I think, to my point that I was saying to Eric earlier the reality of it is we've been making it work.

So any additional funds that we get is definitely very helpful.

We have realized a long time ago that those were the programs that we needed in order to continue to push our students forward.

So for us, it wasn't a brand new conversation.

Again, as I mentioned before, I hope some of those same advocates who are pushing for that additional funding, continue to do it past the pandemic.

- Right, and the final point, also what came up in the legislature was this whole discussion about what do you do with a student who is in the third grade, who is not at reading level?

And I know the school board over many years has had discussions periodically about the idea of retaining a third grader until they are at reading level or until they meet or show some kind of progress realistically, toward that goal.

Where do you think the school board is in that discussion that that's come up again now?

- You know, it was interesting that it did come up at the state level.

And as you mentioned, we have been talking about it for quite some time, which we did our, you know, third grade policy is around it.

And, you know, definitely have those key factors that start from pre-K on up to second grade that you have to hit in order for you to be promoted to the third grade.

I think now as a board it is just resurfacing the conversation and making sure that we're tight on it and making sure that we also, because we've been through the pandemic and this is where I will say where extra supports need to happen, is making sure we do those extra things before we just say, someone hasn't hit the market that we do those extras before we decide on not promoting them.

- How much, with just a few minutes left here, you know, the, the teachers unions have been pretty adamant about not going back.

People throw around the notion that a big chunk of teachers would retire if they were forced to go back when it wasn't safe.

How much does pressure from the teacher unions come into play in your thinking?

- I will say this, you know, I, Eric, when you finish you'll know how many board members we have.

I am one of nine.

[both laugh] I'm gonna always make that win, you know, and say I'm one of nine.

And for me, I hear teachers.

I understand, you know what they're saying, but as a board, you have to get to five on any decision that's being made.

So I think this is an opportunity for us to, you know be real clear on what it is and be supportive of Dr. Ray in understanding that what additional supports we can give to teachers.

I don't know the numbers.

I'd be honest and say, I've heard from one union and I've heard from another union.

And oftentimes they do not share the same thoughts.

Sometimes they do share the same thoughts.

But I will say we, as a board have also had conversations around what does it look like to fill that shortage if that happens.

So we have to be prepared either way.

- Last thing, and we probably don't enough time for it but the like all school systems, the first round of federal money, there was a big, there was some millions of dollars that came to the Shelby County school system.

I think there's an estimated 190 million more that's about to come.

I think I have that right.

How will that, how was that money been spent and how will it be spent going forward?

- Great question.

We have a board budget retreat that's coming up where we're gonna talk about how we're gonna spend those SO 2.0 funds.

There are some things that we already know that we need to do, but as a board we have not collectively had the conversation around where they will go.

But a good portion of that is going to make sure that we are doing, in having the supplies needed for those who choose to go back into the building.

- Is it, and there's been some talk maybe of tutoring and summer sessions and that kind of making, helping kids get caught up is, can the money go towards that as well?

- It can, but you know, again I don't wanna say where something's gonna go again because we haven't had the conversation as a whole board around the direction of those dollars.

We've only brought up one or two things.

- And that is all the time we have this week.

Miska Clay Bibs, thanks for joining us.

Remember, you can get past episodes of the show at wkno.org or you can download the full podcast of the show from the daily Memphian site or wherever you get your podcasts.

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