>> IF YOU WANTED AMERICA TO BE THE MOST COMPETITIVE COUNTRY IN THE WORLD THEN YOU MAKE SURE WE ARE GETTING THE MOST COMPETITIVE INDIVIDUALS.

WE ARE A COUNTRY OF IMMIGRANTS.

[♪♪] >> HELLO I'M BONNIE ERBE WELCOME TO THE CONTRARY.

THIS WEEK WE CONTINUE OUR INTERVIEWS WITH WOMEN THOUGHT LEADERS.

I'M JOINED BY NEW MEXICO REPRESENTATIVE MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM.

WELCOME TO TO THE CONTRARY.

WE ARE SO THRILLED TO BE ABLE TO CHAT WITH YOU FOR HALF AN HOUR.

>> THANK YOU I'M DELIGHTED TO BE ON THE SHOW.

I'VE BEEN LOOKING FORWARD TO THIS FOR QUITE SOMETIME.

>> TERRIFIC.

SO YOU ARE THE HEAD OF THE CONGRESSIONAL HISPANIC CAUCUS.

FOR VIEWERS WHO DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT GROUP DOES PLEASE TELL US?

>> WELL, THANK YOU.

I MEAN IT IS AN INCREDIBLE CAUCUS WE ARE 31 MEMBERS STRONG SO WE HAVE A HIGH GROWTH TRAJECTORY WHICH IS GREAT.

BECAUSE AS A COLLECTIVE YOU CAN IDENTIFY PRIORITY ISSUES THAT YOU CAN REPRESENT TO THE GREATER DEMOCRATIC CAUCUS AND LEVERAGE THEM INTO THE FULL HOUSE SO THAT YOU CAN GET POLICIES MADE THAT PROVIDE AN ECONOMIC EDUCATION AND BENEFIT TO OUR HISPANIC COMMUNITIES WHICH ARE STILL MAKING LESS, HAVING FEWER OPPORTUNITIES AND WE WANT TO DEAL WITH THAT.

TOO MANY OF OUR HISPANIC FAMILIES ARE LIVING AT OR BELOW THE POVERTY LINE.

AND IMMIGRATION IS A MAINSTAY ISSUE BECAUSE THIS COUNTRY HAS IGNORED IMMIGRATION ISSUES FOR 20 YEARS AND IF THEY DON'T DO THEM THEY ARE CRUEL AND WE ARE KEEN ON DIVERSITY MAKING SURE THAT WORKPLACE AND WORKFORCE ISSUES REFLECT THE COMMUNITIES THAT THEY ARE PARTICIPATING IN.

SO WE HAVE DOPE A LOT OF WORK ACROSS DIVERSITY ISSUES.

>> IN THE TRUMP ERA WE KNOW THE PRESIDENT IS OPPOSED TO IMMIGRATION AND WANTS TO CUT IT BACK AND WANTS TO PEOPLE TO STOP COMING ILLEGALLY AND CUT LEGAL LIMITS.

AND THE LEAST DIVERSE CABINET AND ADMINISTRATION.

>> CORRECT.

>> IN PROBABLY 30, 40 YEARS.

HOW DOES THAT AFFECT WHAT YOU ARE DOING?

>> SO WHEN YOU FIRST GET ELECTED TO CONGRESS AND I THINK ANY NEW LARGE JOB, MOST INDIVIDUALS WILL TELL YOU WHEN YOU ASK THEM HOW IT'S GOING IT'S LIKE TRYING TO DRINK FROM A FIRE HOSE.

THAT IS WHAT THIS ADMINISTRATION HAS BEEN LIKE.

EVERYDAY THERE IS A CATASTROPHE ABOUT PROTECTING A COMMUNITY.

AND WHILE WE WERE CLEAR THAT CERTAINLY IN THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN REMARKS, STATEMENTS, AGENDA, ISSUES THAT WERE IDENTIFIED ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL WE WERE VERY UPSET AND CONCERNED ABOUT BECAUSE WE DEEM THEM TO BE RACIST ON THEIR FACE.

ONCE ELECTED, HOWEVER, I HAVE TO TELL YOU THERE WAS A SURPRISE.

AND GIVEN THAT THE LAW HAS NOT CHANGED, WE HAD DISAGREEMENTS ABOUT THE PRIORITIZATION IN THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION, THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION, AND THE LAW IS FAIRLY NARROW.

SO WE ARE ALWAYS FINDING OURSELVES TO BE ADVOCATES IN THAT SPACE.

TODAY, HOWEVER, IT'S NOT JUST BEING AN ADVOCATE IN THAT SPACE AND RECOGNIZING THAT WE ARE STILL FIGHTING AN UPHILL BATTLE ON IMMIGRATION REFORM THEY ARE ACTIVELY DEPORTING DREAMERS, FOLKS WHO WERE NOT A THREAT TO THE COUNTRY, THAT THEY ARE TAKING AWAY TEMPORARY PROTECTED STATUS.

THIS IS A GROUP OF INDIVIDUALS FROM COUNTRIES WHO ARE ABSOLUTELY REFUGEES.

ABSOLUTELY.

AND HAVE BEEN IN THE COUNTRY FOR 20 YEARS.

THEY HAVE AMERICAN CHILDREN AND GRANDCHILDREN AND YOU ARE GOING TO SEPARATE THEM FROM THEIR FAMILIES.

NO ADMINISTRATION, NO ADMINISTRATION HAS BEEN KEEN ON DOING THAT AND NO ADMINISTRATION CERTAINLY IN MY LIFETIME HAS SUGGESTED THAT WHAT YOU OUGHT TO BE AFTER IS DEPORTING 11 MILLION INDIVIDUALS IN TOTAL IN THIS COUNTRY.

THAT IS A VERY DANGEROUS AND DIFFERENT DYNAMIC.

>> HA WHAT POWER DO YOU HAVE TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT?

>> WE CAN BE THE AMERICAN CONSCIENCE.

AND WE'RE SHOWING THAT WE HAVE BI-PARTISAN SUPPORT PROTECTING DREAMERS AND CREATING A NEW RECOGNITION BY AMERICANS WHO TO A LARGE PART DETERMINED THAT ANYBODY HERE WITHOUT LEGAL STATUS WAS EITHER INVOLVED IN ILLEGAL ACTIVITY AND REALLY DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THAT IN FACT THEY ARE GOING TO CHURCH WITH THESE COMMUNITY MEMBERS THEY ARE FRIENDS WITH THESE COMMUNITY MEMBERS.

I DON'T THINK THEY UNDERSTOOD WHAT IT MEANS TO BE AN IMMIGRANT IN THIS COUNTRY.

AND I THINK WE'VE DONE AN EFFECTIVE JOB FOR THE AMERICAN PUBLIC NOT AS EFFECTIVE AS WE NEED TO IN CONGRESS.

BUT DEMONSTRATING THAT THERE IS NO ARGUMENT ABOUT BORDER SECURITY THAT IS MEANINGFUL NOT WASTEFUL AND NOT INTENDED TO BE DISCRIMINATORY.

AND THAT NOBODY WANTS AN UNSAFE COMMUNITY.

IF YOU HAVE AN UNSAFE ACTOR AND THAT PERSON HAPPENS TO BE AN IMMIGRANT THAT IS NOT DOCUMENTED, WE WANT THAT PERSON HELD ACCOUNTABLE IN THIS COUNTRY AND THEN WE WANT THEM DEPORTED.

BUT WE ARE NOT SO INTERESTED IN DEPORTING VETERANS THAT ARE NOW BEING DEPORTED AND THEY HAVE A CRIMINAL BACKGROUND.

BUT IF THEY SERVED THIS COUNTRY AND SERVED THEIR TIME, WHY DO THEY HAVE TO GET A DOUBLE CRIMINAL SENTENCE AND BE PRIME RATED FROM THEIR FAMILIES?

THAT DOES NOT MAKE ANY SENSE TO US.

>> IT WAS CLEAR FROM THE RESULTS OF LAST YEAR'S ELECTIONS THAT AMERICANS A LOT OF AMERICANS ARE QUITE FRANKLY ARE AFRAID OF THE HUGE WAVE OF IMMIGRATION THAT WE'VE HAD OVER THE LAST 20 OR 30 YEARS.

WE HAVE MORE IMMIGRANTS AT LEAST AS OF LAST YEAR THERE WERE ONE IN EVERY 12 AMERICANS, I BELIEVE, IS AN IMMIGRANT.

OR CHILD OF.

AND THAT IS A HIGHER PERCENTAGE THAN GOING BACK TO THE TURN OF THE LAST CENTURY.

THE TURN OF THE 20TH CENTURY.

SO THERE WAS GENUINE FEELING ON THE PART OF THE PUBLIC THAT THEY ARE TAKING OUR JOBS THEY ARE LOWERING OUR WAGES.

WHETHER THAT IS ACCURATE OR NOT.

>> THAT PERCEPTION.

>> HOW -- >> WE HAVE TO KEEP TELLING PEOPLE THE REAL STORIES THAT IMMIGRATION IS ACTUALLY DOWN AT THE SOUTHERN BORDER AND UNACCOMPANIED MINORS AND IT HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH THE ECONOMY.

IF WE ARE INVESTING IN MAKING SURE PRODUCTIVELY WE SHOULD HAVE A RETURN ON THOSE INVESTMENTS SO THESE ARE STABLE ENVIRONMENTS THEN YOU DON'T HAVE THAT CROSS MIGRATION HERE AND MAKE NO MISTAKE WHILE THE STORY DOES NOT GET OUT ENOUGH THERE ARE BUSINESSES INSTEAD OF FAULTING THE BUSINESSES THE HISPANIC CAUCUS WANTS TO DEAL WITH THE REALITIES THAT WITHOUT IMMIGRANT WORKERS IN THE LONG-TERM CARE AND AGRICULTURE, IN MY STATE IN OIL AND GAS AND SO MANY INDUSTRIES, IF YOU DON'T HAVE AN IMMIGRANT WORKFORCE YOU ARE IN REAL TROUBLE.

ASK KANSAS, ASK CALIFORNIA WHAT HAPPENS IF YOU DON'T HAVE MIGRANT FARM WORKERS.

THE PROGRAMS ARE INSUFFICIENT FOR THE AMOUNT OF WORKERS IN THOSE EMPLOYMENT SPACES AND THEY DON'T TAKE THE JOBS OF AMERICANS.

WE'RE LUCKY AND THAT IS TRUE OF MOST COUNTRIES.

THERE ARE CERTAIN LABOR ISSUES THAT END UP BEING IN A MIGRANT LABOR WORK ENVIRONMENT AND FOR US TO PRETEND THAT THAT IS NOT TRUE IS NOT GOOD FOR THE ECONOMY.

WHEN WE INVEST IN MAKING THOSE OTHER COUNTRIES SAFER AND CLEAR ABOUT MIGRANT WORKERS AND WE HAVE THE RIGHT EFFORT, I THINK WHAT AMERICANS CONFUSE STILL TODAY NOT JUST THE JOBS PERCEPTION BUT THE PERCEPTION THAT EVERYONE WHO HAS COME OVER WITHOUT INSPECTION WITHOUT A VISA IS THAT THEY ARE DOING NEFARIOUS ACTIVITY AND THAT IS FALSE AND TWO, YOU CANNOT GET A VISA BECAUSE OUR IMMIGRATION SYSTEM HAS NOT BEEN REFORMED OR UPDATED SO PEOPLE WHO LEGITIMATELY ARE LEGITIMATELY COULD BE HERE WHATEVER IT IS CAN'T.

BECAUSE WE DON'T ALLOW YOU TO DO IT THE RIGHT WAY.

AND THE LONGER WE STALL DOING REAL IMMIGRATION REFORM AND POLICY WE WILL HURT OUR ECONOMY AND HURT OUR HIGH TECH GROWING INDUSTRY AND HURT AMERICAN MIXED STATUS FAMILIES AND WE ARE NOT DOING WHAT WE SAY WE WANT TO DO ACCORDING TO OUR OWN CONSTITUTION THAT PROVIDES A PROTECTED STATUS TO REFUGEES AND PEOPLE SEEKING ASYLUM.

AND WHILE THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION WANTS TO TAKE CREDIT FOR HAVING A REDUCED INFLUX OF IMMIGRANTS, I THINK IT REMAINS TO BE SEEN.

IT REALLY DOES DEPEND ON WHAT THOSE ECONOMIC FACTORS ARE.

DO I DIMINISH THE FEAR THAT THEY HAVE PLACED?

I DON'T AT ALL.

ASK NEW YORKERS ABOUT THE NUMBER OF INDIVIDUALS NOT JUST HISPANICS BUT HAITIANS, HISPANIC, ASIANS, WHO ARE AFRICANS WHO ARE TRYING TO GET TO THE CANADIAN BORDER BECAUSE THEY ARE AFRAID OF THE DEPORTATION ASPECTS.

WHEN YOU ARE A 10-YEAR-OLD GIRL OUT OF SURGERY WITH CEREBRAL PALSY THAT IS A HUGE PROBLEM.

AND I THINK THAT THAT FEAR I KNOW THAT THAT FEAR IS PAL PITTABLE IT'S REAL IT'S INAPPROPRIATE AND UNCONSTITUTIONAL AND IT'S CERTAINLY UNAMERICAN.

AND THE REAL ISSUE ABOUT IMMIGRATION CHALLENGES IS VISA OVERSTAYS.

WHERE PEOPLE HAVE THE RIGHT STUFF ON THE FRONT END BUT WE DON'T DEAL WITH THE OVERSTAYS.

>> AND THOSE IMMIGRANTS WE MIGHT THEY ARE MAINLY EASTERN EUROPEAN.

THEY ARE WHITE.

>> THERE IS A FAIR NUMBER THAT ARE LATINO OR HISPANIC BUT YOUR POINT IS ACCURATE IT IS A MORE DIVERSE POPULATION AND IT BEGS SO I THINK THERE IS A SENSE BY AND I HOPE YOUR VIEWERS GET THIS FEEL AFTER THIS INTERVIEW, IT IS, IT'S TON OF WORK IT'S COMPLICATED.

IT IS INTENDED TO BE COMPLICATED.

WE WANT TO BE SURE THAT WE DON'T CREATE STRESSES ON OUR ECONOMY, ON OUR COMMUNITY, OUR PUBLIC SAFETY THAT WE'RE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES.

AND WE KNOW THAT THE SOUTHERN BORDER IN PARTICULAR BUT ALL BORDERS SHOULD NOT BE OPENING.

DRUG TRAFFICKING KNOWS NO BORDER WE WANT TO BE CLEAR AND.

>> HUMAN TRAFFICKING, GUN TRAFFICKING IF IT'S NEFARIOUS ACTIVITY THEY FIEND A WAY TO DO IT.

WE HAVE TO BE VIGILANT ABOUT THAT.

I DON'T THINK THERE IS A SINGLE MEMBER OF CONGRESS THAT DOES NOT WANT TO DO THAT.

BUT THE QUESTIONS THAT YOU ASK AND THE ISSUES YOU RAISE GIVE ME PRIDE IN MY ANSWER BUT RESPONDING BY WE HAVE TO GRAPPLE WITH ALL OF IT.

AND THIS PIECEMEAL EFFORT WHICH WE'RE GOING TO DO WHILE I'M IN CONGRESS, I'M SUPPORTING MAKING SURE THAT WE DO SOMETHING ABOUT THE DREAMERS, DOESN'T REALLY ADDRESS WHAT AMERICANS WOULD LIKE US TO ADDRESS EVEN IF THERE'S DISAGREEMENT WHICH THINGS OUGHT TO BE FIXED AND HOW, WE CAN'T KEEP IGNORING THAT WE HAVE A BROKEN IMMIGRATION SYSTEM HERE.

>> BUT FIXING IT, DOES FIXING IT MEAN OPENING IT UP TO MORE IMMIGRATION?

>> WELL, NO.

FIXING IT MEANS THAT YOU -- WE MAKE THE DECISIONS ABOUT WHAT KIND OF IMMIGRATION IS MANAGEABLE.

YOU MAKE A DECISION IF THESE ECONOMIC FACTORS ARE IN PLACE AND IF THESE ARE THE BUSINESS NEEDS AND WHERE IS THAT IMMIGRATION GOING TO COME FROM THOSE ARE GOOD ECONOMIC ASPECTS.

IF YOU WANT AMERICA TO BE THE MOST COMPETITIVE COUNTRY IN THE WORLD THEN YOU MAKE SURE WE ARE GETTING ALL OF THE MOST COMPETITIVE INDIVIDUALS.

WE ARE A COUNTRY OF IMMIGRANTS.

SO WE HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO DICTATE AND DETERMINE OUR FUTURE.

BUT IF WE IGNORE IT, THAT'S NOT WHAT HAPPENS.

>> ARE YOU SAYING THAT THERE WILL BE SOME MOVEMENT ON DACA?

>> I THINK DREAMERS WE WIN DREAMERS.

IN WHAT CONTEXT AND ON WHAT DAY, I WISH I HAD A CRYSTAL BALL.

BUT IT'S TELLING, ISN'T IT, THAT THE SPEAKER IS SAYING IT WILL GET DONE.

IT IS TELLING THAT THERE ARE A VARIETY OF BOTH BIPARTISAN AND BICAMERAL AND THEN UNILATERAL TASK FORCE AND GROUPS.

EVERY CAUCUS IS WORKING ON IMMIGRATION ISSUES.

>> DO YOU THINK REPUBLICANS SEE THAT THEY ARE GOING TO BE IN BIG TROUBLE IF THEY -- IF THE PRESIDENT IS ALLOWED FOR THEIR OWN REELECTION IN THE HOUSE AND SENATE, IF YOU DON'T FIX DACA AND BRING IT BACK?

BECAUSE THE PRESIDENT HAS SET IT ASIDE -- >> YOU GET A THREE-WAY EFFORT HERE.

THE PRESIDENT SHOULD NEVER HAVE RESCINDED IT.

HE SHOULD SAY LOOK I WANT A PERMANENT FIX HERE IS THE TIME-FRAME AND I HAVE A BILL THAT I LIKE BETTER THAN THE OTHERS.

HE RESCINDED IT AND SAID GO TO WORK.

THE AMERICAN PUBLIC IN AN OVERWHELMING IN MY TIME IN FIVE YEARS IN CONGRESS THE NUMBERS NEVER GET IN THE 80s AND 90s WHERE PUBLIC SENTIMENT IS YOU NEED TO DO SOMETHING TO PROTECT AND KEEP THESE DREAMERS.

AND WHEN THE PUBLIC SENTIMENT GETS THERE, THEN YOU HAVE ELECTION ISSUES WHERE PEOPLE WANT TO KNOW IF EVERYBODY WANTED THIS AND THE PRESIDENT WAS WILLING TO DO IT AND THERE WAS BIPARTISAN EFFORT EXPLAIN TO ME, HOW THAT DIDN'T GET DONE?

THIS IS A PLACE WHERE WE HAVE ALL THE RIGHT THINGS.

IS IT STILL PRECARIOUS BECAUSE ARE THERE FRINGE FEMMES IN THE REPUBLICAN CONGRESS THAT -- MEMBERS IN THE REPUBLICAN CONGRESS THAT BELIEVE AND MAY HAVE DISTRICTS THAT WOULD PREFER THAT NO ONE ASSOCIATED AND I USE THAT TERM PURPOSELY BECAUSE YOU CAME ACROSS A SOUTHERN BORDER DOES NOT MAKE YOU A LATINO.

BUT ANYBODY THEY WANT THE FOLKS TO BE GONE.

AND I WORRY THAT SOME NARROW MINDED INDIVIDUALS MIGHT ASSUME THAT EVEN IF YOU WERE AN AMERICAN CITIZEN, IF YOU ARE A FIRST GENERATION OR SECOND GENERATION AND THAT IS WHERE YOUR TIES ARE THAT WE OUGHT TO THINK ABOUT THAT AS WELL.

THERE ARE HARDLINE, HARSH OPINIONS BUT IT IS NOT THE MAJORITY OF CONGRESS.

>> TELL ME WHY YOU MENTIONED YOU'RE NOT RUNNING FOR REELECTION.

YOU'RE RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR OF NEW MEXICO AND YOU WOULD BE IF ELECTED THE FIRST DEMOCRATIC WOMAN TO HOLD THAT JOB.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE HOUSE?

>> I LIKE THIS JOB.

YOU KNOW IT IS AMAZING TO ME WHEN A SINGLE MOM WE SAVE OUR HOUSE FROM FORECLOSE BECAUSE I REPRESENT A DISTRICT THAT HAS A HIGHER PER CAPITA OF CLOSURES AND WE HAVE NOT RECOVERED NEW MEXICO FROM THE RECESSION.

AND WHEN YOU MAKE A DIFFERENCE FOR A VETERAN OR A SOCIAL SECURITY BENEFICIARY THERE ARE THINGS THAT YOU DO THAT IMPROVE THE QUALITY OF LIFE.

AND YOU HAVE A UNILATERAL UNIQUE POWER AND ABILITY TO DO SUCH GOOD.

AND I LOVE THAT.

BUT, I'M ALSO AN EFFECTIVE EXECUTIVE.

FOR 18 YEARS, I RAN TWO OF THE LARGEST ONE LARGE DEPARTMENT IN TERMS OF POPULATION, A LARGE DEPARTMENT, THE AGING AND LONG-TERM SERVICES DEPARTMENT AND WE ARE IN TROUBLE.

WE HAVE THE -- WE ARE 48TH OR 50TH IN THE COUNTRY IN ANY PUBLIC HEALTH OR ECONOMIC OUT COME YOU COULD IDENTIFY.

AND.

>> IS THAT BECAUSE SO MUCH OF YOUR STATE IS NATIVE-AMERICAN RESERVATIONS AND THEY HAVE HIGH RATES OF ALCOHOL AND A LOT OF PROBLEMS.

>> THAT IS SOME OF IT BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THE ECONOMIC ASPECTS IN INDIAN COUNTRY IN NEW MEXICO THEY ARE FARING BETTER PER CAPITA BECAUSE WE HAVE GAMING ENTERPRISES AND THEY HAVE DIVERSIFIED THEIR ECONOMIC FOOTPRINTS IN OUR STATE.

IT'S LACK OF LEADERSHIP.

IT'S AN ATTRITION-STYLE OF DOING GOVERNMENT.

WE WON'T INVEST IN OURSELVES AT ALL.

AND WE WILL HOPE THAT THINGS GET BETTER AND -- >> ARE NEW MEXICANS READY TO PAY HIGHER STATE TAXES TO PAY FOR PROGRAMS YOU WANT TO PUT INTO EFFECT?

>> THE NEW MEXICANS WOULD LOVE THAT THE STATE BUDGET IS PRIORITIZED IN A WAY THAT THEY WOULD SEE ECONOMIC BENEFIT.

AN EXAMPLE, THE CURRENT ADMINISTRATION VETOED THE ENTIRE HIGHER EDUCATION BUDGET.

NOT A PART OF IT.

ALL OF IT.

>> SO NO STATE MONEY IS GOING TO THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS?

>> RIGHT.

YOU HAVE A SPECIAL SESSION AND SPEND MONEY THERE AND PEOPLE ARE UNHAPPY, YOU LOST FACULTY, THIS IS NO WAY TO IMPROVE A STATE.

SO I ACTUALLY AM VERY EFFECTIVE AT CREATING BIPARTISAN RELATIONSHIPS AND BEING AN EFFECTIVE EXECUTIVE.

I AM NOT SO RISK ADVERSE THAT I WILL NOT INVEST IN OURSELVES.

AND WHEN YOU DO THAT AND LOOK AT RESOURCE QUESTIONS, YOU GET TO START WITH THE RESOURCES THAT YOU HAVE FIRST AND I BELIEVE THAT NEW MEXICANS WANT GOOD GOVERNMENT.

IF YOU GIVE US THAT THEN TALK TO US ABOUT THE PRIORITIES AND WE'LL TELL YOU WHETHER OR NOT WE ARE WILLING TO DO ANYTHING DIFFERENT.

>> AND BEING A WOMAN AND A DEMOCRATIC WOMAN AND SEEING WHAT IS GOING ON WITH WOMEN'S RIGHTS UNDER THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION AND IN TERMS OF THE SEXUAL HARASSMENT SCANDALS THAT HAVE COME OUT AND THE WOMEN'S MARCH ON WASHINGTON, HOW DO YOU SEE YOURSELF PLAYING INTO HELPING WOMEN IN NEW MEXICO AND ELSEWHERE, IF YOU CAN, NOT LOSE RIGHTS, NOT LOSE FEDERAL FUNDING FOR PROGRAMS THAT HELP PARTICULARLY WOMEN AND GIRLS AND OTHER UNDERSERVED GROUPS.

>> YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD.

IN ADDITION TO WANTING TO DO THE WORK IN MY STATE, I'M VERY EXCITED ABOUT THAT POTENTIAL OPPORTUNITY.

GOVERNORS ARE IN THE BEST POSITION TO MAKE STATE DECISIONS THAT PROTECT YOUR RESIDENTS FROM TRUMP POLICIES THAT NEW MEXICANS DON'T WANT.

THEY WANT MORE RIGHT PUBLIC AND PROTECTED SPACES AND MORMON USEMENTS AND THEY ARE VERY PRO WOMEN'S RIGHTS AND THEY WANT CONTRACEPTIVES AND 50% OF OUR POPULATON IS ON MEDICAID BUT OUR RURAL HOSPITALS GO BELLY UP AND RURAL COMMUNITIES WOULD FAULTER IF THE HEALTHCARE IDEAS OR THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT WAS REPEALED.

FIXED, ADDRESSED.

NEGATIVE IMPACTS, MINIMIZE THAT NEW MEXICANS WANT BUT NOT THIS.

SO GOVERNORS ARE IN A PRIME POSITION AND WHEN SECOND BUSH WAS IN OFFICE AND I DON'T KNOW IF YOU REMEMBER THIS, THERE WAS A BRAND NEW PROGRAM THAT WAS REQUIRED BY STATES TO ADMINISTER IF YOU WANTED ANY OF THEIR WOMEN'S HEALTH MONEY AND IT WAS AN ABSTINENCE ONLY PROGRAM.

IT WAS QUITE CONTROVERSIAL BECAUSE IT IS NOT EVIDENCE-BASED AND YOU TAUGHT ABSTINENCE ALL THE WAY TO COLLEGE.

AND IT WASN'T YOU DIDN'T TALK ABOUT BIRTH CONTROL AT ALL.

AND I CONVINCED THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION TO A GIVE ME THE MONEY ANYWAY BECAUSE I DID NOT WANT TO SAY NO TO FEDERAL MONEY BUT LET US REDESIGN IT AND WE DID SEX EDUCATION, AGE APPROPRIATE THROUGH HIGH SCHOOL AND WE DROPPED OUR TEEN PREGNANCY RATES I WILL SAY ALMOST BY HALF BY HALF.

SO I AM A BELIEVER THAT GOVERNORS ARE IN A REALLY UNIQUE POSITION EVEN WHEN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DISAGREES WITH YOU TO GET THE BEST SITUATION YOU CAN FOR YOUR CONSTITUENTS.

>> SEEING THE SITUATION NATIONALLY WITH WOMEN AND WOMEN'S RIGHTS AND THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, DO YOU FEAR THAT WOMEN ARE GOING TO BE SETBACK?

>> OH, FEAR?

I SEE IT.

>> HOW DO YOU SEE IT?

>> STATE LEGISLATORS ARE DIMINISHING PUBLIC HEALTH ACCESS AND ACCESS TO CONTRACEPTIVES AND DIMINISHING PREVENTATIVE CARE.

THE FACT THAT IN 2000 I AM A MOTHER OF A 32-YEAR-OLD AND A 30-YEAR-OLD DAUGHTER AND A TWO-YEAR-OLD GRANDDAUGHTER, A LOT OF WOMEN IN MY FAMILY.

AND IF YOU HAD ASKED ME 20 YEARS AGO THAT WE WOULD BE HAVING CONVERSATIONS ABOUT SEXUAL ASSAULT, WOMEN'S RIGHTS, WOMEN'S RIGHTS OR WOMEN'S POSITION IN THE ECONOMY, FAIRNESS EQUALITY AND ACCESS TO REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH I WOULD TELL YOU 20 YEARS AGO WE WOULD BE WELL ON OUR WAY TOTAL EQUALITY AND ALL OF THOSE GLASS CEILINGS WOULD BE BROKEN AND REAL PROTECTIONS WOULD BE IN PLACE.

THE FACT THAT IN THE TAX CODE WE ARE GOING TO TRY TO HAVE A PERSONHOOD DEFINITION INTENDED TO CONTROL AND MINIMIZE WOMEN'S EQUAL RIGHTS.

I BELIEVE THEY ARE REAL I SEE THEM PLAY OUT IN SO MANY STATES.

AND I WANT NEW MEXICO TO BE ONE OF THE STATES WHEN WE TALK ABOUT EQUALITY AND WOMEN'S RIGHTS WE MEAN ALL OF IT.

>> WHAT WILL YOU MISS ABOUT BEING IN CONGRESS?

>> I HAVE A LOT OF GREAT COLLEAGUES AND I DISAGREE WITH MANY AND THEY WOULD SAY THE SAME THING ABOUT ME AND THAT WOULD BE A FAIR DESCRIPTION.

BUT WHEN YOU HAVE 535 INDIVIDUALS AND STAFFS THERE IS NO DERTH OF INCREDIBLE IDEAS AND ENTHUSIASM FOR THINGS THAT WE COULD DO AS POLICYMAKERS IN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

SOMEHOW GETTING US ALTOGETHER TO GET IT DONE, THAT IS WHERE SOMETHING IS LOST WHEN WE ALL GET ON THE FLOOR.

BUT I LOVE HAVING ACCESS TO THAT.

AND LEARNING EVERY SINGLE DAY ABOUT YET ANOTHER UNIQUE PROGRAM OR OPPORTUNITY AND SO I WILL MISS THOSE RELATIONSHIPS.

I WILL MISS THE OPPORTUNITY TO LEARN FROM SOMEBODY ELSE IN THE SAME ROLE THAT I HAVE.

I WILL MISS HAVING THAT WE'RE ALL EQUAL EVEN THOUGH I AM IN THE MINORITY ARGUABLY IN THAT REGARD BUT IT WILL BE GREAT ABOUT BEING HOME I AM A CAREGIVER TO MY MOM, I TALKED TO ABOUT MY DAUGHTERS AND MY GRANDSON AND A STATE I LOVE I CANNOT DESCRIBE HOW I FEEL ABOUT EVERY SINGLE COMMUNITY AND I WANT TO REBUILD NEW MEXICO RELATIONSHIPS BECAUSE I HAVE NO DOUBT IF WE ARE ALL WORKING TOGETHER WE COULD HAVE NEW MEXICO NOT BE UP WITH OF THE STATES BOY, NEW MEXICO IS STRUGGLING?

OR BECAUSE OF OTHER MINORITY COMMUNITIES?

OR BECAUSE YOU ARE SO RURAL?

WHAT IS IT?

WELL IT'S BECAUSE NOBODY TOOK THE OPPORTUNITY TO IDENTIFY THAT WE HAVE FAR MORE RESOURCES AND ASSETS THAN WE DO CHALLENGES.

>> AND TELL ME BRIEFLY ABOUT YOU HAVE A CAREGIVER HAT.

>> IT'S CALL CARE -- I LOVE IT.

IT GETS YOU OUT OF THE TYPICAL CARE GIVING AND LONG-TERM CARE DISCUSSION POINTS WHICH IF YOU THINK IMMIGRATION CREATES A TOUCH POINT OF DIFFERENT REACTIONS, TALK ABOUT MEDICAID, MEDICARE, AND THE AGING OF VETERANS AND THE AGING OF AMERICA AND WHAT WE ARE GOING TO DO TO DEAL WITH THIS POPULATION AND NOT GO BANKRUPT WHICH IS EVERY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD IS TRYING TO FIGURE THAT OUT.

SO CARE CORE IS AN IDEA THAT SAYS GET OUT OF THE ENTITLEMENT PROGRAMS AND WE ARE NOT GOING TO REPLACE CAREGIVERS BUT CREATE A NATIONAL SERVICE PROGRAM LIKE THE PEACE CORE ONLY IT WOULD BE PLACED HERE IN THE UNITED STATES TAKE SOMEONE FROM WHERE YOU ARE FROM, MANHATTAN TAKE A YOUNG PERSON WE'LL PAY DOWN THEIR COLLEGE LOANS OR GIVE THEM A COLLEGE BENEFIT AND GIVE YOU A STIPEN AND HOUSING AND IMAGINE IF YOU COULD BE PLACED PLACED IN NEW MEXICO ON THE NAVAJO RESERVATION AND PROVIDING TRANSPORTATION AND SOCIAL ACTIVITIES AND SUPPORTING ME BY MAKING SURE THAT LAUNDRY AND THE NURSE SHOWED UP ON TIME AND THERE IS NO EPISODES.

TO ONE OF THE CO-TALKERS.

THOSE ARE EXPERIENCES OF A LIFETIME.

AND IT CREATES AN INTERGENERATIONAL COMPONENT THAT SHORES UP FAMILY CAREGIVERS IF YOU SHORE ME UP THAT IS NEARLY $500 BILLION OF CARE THAT CAREGIVERS PROVIDE TO THE COUNTRY FOR FREE BECAUSE WE WANT TO OFTEN BECAUSE WE HAVE TO WITH VERY LITTLE SUPPORT AND WHEN WE GIVE OUT AND WE DO THAT MEANS TAXPAYERS ARE ON THE HOOK FOR ABOUT $150,000 ON AVERAGE FOR EVERY PERSON WE CANNOT PROVIDE THAT CARE TO.

AND YOU KNOW WHO DOES THE MAJORITY OF THAT CARE?

HISPANIC WOMEN IN THIS COUNTRY.

>> I KNOW IT'S WOMEN.

I DIDN'T KNOW IT WAS HISPANIC WOMEN.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

THAT'S IT FOR THIS EDITION OF TO THE CONTRARY AND WHETHER YOU AGREE OR THINK TO THE CONTRARY, PLEASE JOIN US NEXT WEEK.

A TRANSCRIPT OR TO SEE AN ON-LINE VERSION OF THIS EPISODE OF TO THE CONTRARY VISIT OUR WEBSITE AT PBS.ORG/TOTHECONTRARY.

[♪♪]