♪ Music Playing ♪ >> Coming up next "Arizona Horizon", our AZ votes 2020 section series continues as Republican gubernatorial candidate Andy Biggs join is us in studio.

Congress Andy Biggs next on "Arizona Horizon."

>> "Arizona Horizon" is made possible by contributions from the friends of Arizona PBS.

Members of your public television station.

>> GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO THIS AZ VOTES 2026 SPECIAL EDITION OF "ARIZONA HORIZON," I'M TED SIMONS.

TONIGHT WE TURN OUR FOCUS TO TH ARIZONA GOVERNOR'S RACE.

AND JOINING US IS CONGRESSMAN ANDY BIGGS, WHO REPRESENTS ARIZONA'S 5th CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT.

CONGRESSMAN BIGGS IS THE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE FOR GOVERNOR.

THE DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE, INCUMBENT GOVERNOR KATIE HOBBS, DECLINED OUR INVITATION TO PARTICIPATE IN TONIGHT'S DISCUSSION.

Now, congressman, goof to have you here, thank you so much for agreeing to do this.

I am looking forward to the conversation.

And I want to start with just a basic question.

Why are you doing this?

Because, I mean, you have been a forceful and vocal supporter of president trump and right now the trump agenda is a little rockier than it has been.

I would think right now he needs your help more than ever.

Why are you leaving to do this?

>> My view of it was I didn't want to stay and be forever in congress anyway.

I decided after I got elected last time that I wouldn't going to run again.

And I did not like the direction that we are going under the current governor.

And I felt I had some unique skills, some unique history.

Some unique knowledge that I could help maybe turn the State around.

>> But the idea of you being there to help with the president's agenda, you have been a very big supporter of the president.

You have not opposed the war in a ran arc at least not opposed votes for the war in a van, Tear policies federal election control not getting a chance to get into that.

Are these things that you have supported?

Do you continue to support them in the manner in the strength that you had?

>> Well, so we can break down each one of those, for instance, tariffs, they are a two-edged sword.

I mean, so when you look at tariffs, they are -- there has been some things that have been rough about the tariffs, they cause prices to go up in certain segments of the society and certain sectors.

But at the same time, president trump is -- he's leaned into it and trying to actually get us better bilateral trade agreements and it's worked in some cases.

Tariffs I lock and say, it's a two-edged sword.

It's a two-edged toward.

The war in Iran, I think why did we even get there.

We got there because I was watching President Biden the JCPCOA and what they did is actually provided funding and the authority for Iran to develop nuclear weapons ability.

Trump gets it back by withdrawing, President Biden tries to go forward with it again.

He's unable do so.

But he gives back to the oligarchs in Iran a bunch of money.

And he lifts up any sanctions there.

The result is, all of a sudden, Iran is helping China accelerate its program.

And Iran is actually focusing on funding Hamas, the Houthis, you know.

Al Shabazz and all of these things going on.

And the reality is I look and say being I am not really keen on it, but I understand why he's there.

I just want it to end soon of as soon as possible.

>> And yet, one can argue the first of all we can argue what president, then President Biden did and the ramifications of what he can, that's certainly arguable.

The fact remains in the war in other Iran right now is one of the major reasons inflation continues to be at or near 4% the fed wants it at 2% good luck with that any time of the future and got prices are so high.

Are we better off now than we were before the war in Iran start.

>> Well, some would make the argument that we are safer from Iran.

And its nuclear ambitions and the other issue is, I like where secretary Bessent is going, for instance.

What he is doing, he's trying to make it nonkinetic.

When he says he's going to make it nonkinetic, what he is talking about is using the sanctions to finish off the economic viability of the mull as.

And so when he does that.

Do we get better?

the gas prices dropped in the last couple of days because the gas futures dropped because the strait of Hormuz ostensibly, not making any guarantees.

>> Right.

>> But what is happening you have moved back to prewar amounts of oil moving through the straights of Hormuz.

>> Quickly, Saudi Arabia is certainly not in a pre-war condition of the red sea their operations there are strangled by the Houthis.

This is an open market here.

Everyone kind of joins in here, and that's keeping those prices up.

>> Yeah, but when you are moving 15 to 2,020,000,000 barrels of oil a day it takes several week before we start getting that into our own pipelines and the United States.

I don't know how to say this I am not advocating significantly on this.

Just pointing out that objectively looking at it, we have knocked down some of Iran's capabilities to foment war against us and our allies.

Things are not fully solved yet I hope they get solved soon.

I have been asking and advocating for that for time.

>> Back this economics inch great part what's happening in Arizona and around the country is because of oil prices and because of inflation and the Iran war, regardless of your thoughts about it, it does have an impact.

>> Yeah.

>> For the state.

For the State, though, you are calling for getting rid of the flat -- it's already 2.5 flat income tax rate.

2.5 is too much for you?

>> It's not necessarily too much for me, but it's too much for the Arizonans and it's too much for businesses to get here.

You know there was a study that just came out by the common sense institute, and what they said is you know, who draws jobs into the State afternoon incredibly low tax base and low regulations, we would not be surprised to see that, right?

And so we have people and families struggling but we want jobs to come into our state.

And so I think 2 1/2 percent can go and you can rachet down and actually eliminate the State income tax.

And the last point that is, our state competitors, Texas, Tennessee, Florida, Nevada, there are nine other states that are now going to rachet down their income tax.

The reason they are doing it, to draw jobs into is their states.

>> And yet the JLBC says the income tax is about a 30 of general funs six or $7 billion.

>> 6.1 billion.

>> Out 18 being 19 billion there.

How do you make up that revenue If you cut programs which I imagine is part of the equation, what programs are you going to cut?

>> Let's take the cut programs off.

Because we don't need to cut programs, I don't believe.

If you rachet this down and do you it in an orderly fashion, you will actually spin up the economy.

One of the things that we have seen in all of these states that have actually moved to no income tax and seen over the last 75 years, Ted, is that states and the country when we --ed feds, when we eliminated certain taxes, income tax in particular the economy and the velocity of that economy gets going so fast, that it spins off more money in tax restless revenue you are trying make up $6 billion, I think you can do it, I trust the markets.

Second thing is, we have massive amounts of fraud and corruption in this state.

And you start whack ago way at that.

You are going to be able to compensate and cover some of that.

>> A third of the general fund.

>> Right.

>> You are saying that's possible?

>> Absolutely.

Absolutely.

>> Regarding economics again.

H.R.

1 the big, beautiful bill.

>> Right.

>> Because of that, it -- it comes into effect at the end of the year regarding Medicaid and access here in Arizona and some 400,000 people eligible for access they are in jeopardy did I now and DES says hundreds of thousands whether I 400 or whatever it is they are going to lose coverage if 400,000 people are likely to lose coverage, say because mostly because of work requirements, stick with that one, is that a good thing?

Does that mean the work requirements are working?

>> Let plea turn it up side down and make sure that we are on the same presumption and the same knowledge.

Nobody is on traditional Medicaid loses coverage.

No one.

The people who lose coverage in the one big beautiful Bill, are single, adults, who are working -- you know, are capable of work.

We are not evening asking them to go out and work 40 hours.

We are not even asking them to work 40 hours.

We are not even asking them to work 20 hours, we are saying, work, volunteer, Again education for 20 hours a week, then you stay on the program.

And guess -- you no he who thought that was a great idea?

Bill Clinton thought that was a great idea and signed legislation that did that.

It's time to do that -- bring that back.

>> So when D.E.S.

says folks in Arizona are going to lose coverage or never be able to get coverage, because of what happens at the end offed year regarding access, and these work requirements and other aspecting of H.R.

1, you say?

>> I say is this the same D.E.S.

that is failed to provide federal audits and respond to them?

And is actually put the Medicaid program at risk altogether.

So let me give you this, Ted.

You are concerned about the 400,000 people who may come off, which I am not sure that they will, I have a strong feeling that a lot of them are going to try on get volunteer positions, service positions, those types of things.

But here is what I will tell you, I don't know if you even know this, Katie Hobbs has failed to find -- file audits for years now, with regard to Medicaid.

And one of the requirements that you have do to get that access money, which is about 17 and a half to $18 billion you have to timely file your audits.

She has not file the audits the feds have come and said they sent her a letter in July we want it by July 30th she ignored it.

>> The reason, though, that we are talking about access and Medicaid, is because there are folks that think that you are going get rid of state Medicaid or dump it down, lower it so much it's inconsequential and bring back the fact that you opposed medication expansion in 20 their identity, you were opposed to kids care getting that back up in order.

Would you support those kinds of things as governor?

>> Ted, let me finish this thing about Katie Hobbs.

Because when people are critical of me.

You know what I am not dangerously incompetent.

She's dangerously incompetent.

Because the -- I meant with the undersecretary, the deputy secretary a week ago.

He testified in the state legislature.

He said if they don't get in this in, and they have now pushed it back, the State has pushed it back.

The Stated could lose all Medicaid funding.

That's -- >> Okay.

>> That's huge.

>> That is pretty huge then again my original question is, does Medicaid funding?

Does it exist and survive under a governor Biggs?

>> I believe it does being here is why I say that.

In 2013 when you talk about the Medicaid expansions, that was for adult able-bodied individuals.

One of the reasons I opposed it is because they gave us an under count.

I opposed it is because they didn't adequately fund it.

I said there been fraud.

You know what program in our state, not just in our state, but the entire across the entire country, has the most fraud, and where the population is far exceeding it?

It is in Arizona, it's the able-bodied working adult.

People should not say we shouldn't trust them.

Biggs is the only guy that predicted this would happen.

Biggs predicted this would happen.

And that's exactly what happened.

>> I want to get to another aspect of healthcare here.

You call for vaccine freedom.

>> Yeah.

>> What does that mean?

>> Vaccine freedom means you get to choose whether you get it or not.

>> Do vaccines work if people get to choose and if not everyone is vaccinated, if there is no herd you mine community for lack of a better phrase here I know that can be defined as variety of ways, but if you don't get vaccinated, and I do, doesn't that mean that the vaccination the efficacy of the vaccination the efficacy of the healthcare attempt.

>> I don't think there is a logical premise for what you is.

I don't think any end department I don't thinks is going to say, look, here is the deal, if you get a vaccine, and Ted doesn't get a vaccine, that you over here are more susceptible.

No.

The idea of the vaccine is to prevent you from being more susceptible F you feel that he's prop are the for you, get it.

>> But the idea a vaccine is also that you don't leave here and go infect someone smells.

>> The reality is people make those choices and part of what we saw under COVID, for instance, when you had these mandates, you fail dark you killed the motion of herd you community.

Now as we review what happened -- >> Are you saying the COVID vaccinations which I by accounts seriously ended this pandemic.

They were not effective?

>> For some people they were.

For others they were not.

>> For society as a whole, were they effective in.

>> For some people they were effective.

For some they were not effective at all.

>> You can't answer for society as a whole then?

And that's what we are talking about.

We are talking about society as a whole.

>> Well, Ted, if we were to flip it on the end and say, how are the treatments?

When you put people on the respirators.

How did that happen?

There was a study that just came out I don't know if you saw this, very interesting study, that testimony in congress just this past week, he said everybody that was on the respirator passed away.

149 out of 149.

Those who weren't on that they only three died.

And they were so far -- they had actually had symptoms for 40 and 45 days.

And I am bringing that up because you are fighting what I would call a multiple -- multiple front war here and just suggesting to you when you start talking about vaccine freedom, it's your choice.

It's your choice to get that vaccine or not to get that vaccine.

>> Okay.

And I think some people would argue that the whole idea behind a vaccine is to get as many people as possible not spreading a particular disease.

But we'll leave it at that.

I want to talk about COVID in the sense of COVID relief packages.

You are voted against them in 2020.

You were only one of two to vote against an emergency COVID relief pack.

One of two in the house.

>> Yeah.

>> That's a big house.

You and one other person.

You once said the cure is proving worse than the disease.

Did you honestly believe that the cure being COVID vaccination, you should say, was worse than the disease?

>> Did I say that about the vaccination?

Or did I say it about the restoration?

>> You said it about the cure in terms of how COVID was being handled.

>> But, Ted, this thing won't for I while.

Are we talking about the restorations?

>> We are talking back in 2020.

When the vaccines were first being developed and when they were first rolled out.

>> Are you sure that's what I said that?

>> I am pretty sure.

>> Basically you said it, though, you said it when you voted against emergency aid.

>> I'll give you two-points on that.

Do you know why we have -- why we had 20% inflation.

>> Yes.

I think everyone is pretty much away of why that happened.

>> Yeah.

It's because we threw out a mess of money.

Do you ho how much was estimated to be fraud?

Trillions.

So you throw in $7 trillion without any kind of measurable productivity, into the economy, you have -- you have a problem with inflation of that's what happens you devalued your currency and you have inflation.

And when I was talking about the cure is worse than the disease, part of what I was talking about is you are going to actually emasculate our economy, and in Arizona for instance, we had something like 50% of all restaurants closed and went away forever.

>> Right.

>> And I want to you think how bad we are today.

We lost 4100 jobs last month under Katie Hobbs, 105,000 in 15 months under Katie Hobbs and this is important here.

>> Yes.

>> Ted, but this is really important.

We have fewer people in the labor force today than in any time in 10 years.

>> And -- >> And that includes COVID.

The COVID era.

>> And yet there are people that lost loved ones, people who lost neighbors and family members, people died because of COVID.

Something had to be done.

You couldn't just say back there and go, EH, let's just wait it out.

Or could you?

Would that have been your idea?

Just wait it out and see what happens?

>> Let's take a look at -- what I find really troubling about your -- the premise of your question, is you action as if there was no studies being done anywhere else in the world about the development of herd immunity to on COVID.

You are action like there has been no after action-action reports to sustained some of what was done in Sweden.

You are acting as if nobody is looked back and said, there were other ways we could have dealt with this.

And I am saying there were other ways we could have dealt with this.

And some of those I mentioned at the time.

>> Okay.

Do you think voters in Arizona like what they just heard you say?

>> I think what voters in Arizona are saying is Ted is asking Andy about something that is so long ago, and really we are living in a state that is the worst in education, we are losing jobs, instead of growing jobs.

And we've got a governor who is vetoing bills left and right.

And Ted is focusing on COVID.

>> Yes.

>> And I think people are saying, joey wonder why Ted is focusing back on that stuff instead of the issuings that pertain to me now in my pocket back today.

>> And some people would probably say why is congressman Biggs going focused on what governor Hobbs did in the past as governor and as a member of the State legislature.

As well.

I mean, your history is you.

That's all we got what you said and did at certain times I think it's fair enough if you look back at what she did and you have and you have criticized and her and scrutiny is appropriate we can do that the same with him that in mind, you voted against certifying Arizona votes in 2020 election, people want know about testimony he don't want to lack backwards.

I hear it all the time.

Ask him about that.

Why did he do that?

Why did you do what?

>> Well, I am sure you are familiar with this that there is a question process to question certification of presidential electors.

>> Right?

>> Right.

And that had been done every time George -- both times George bush won in 2016 the Democrats did the same.

They did it every time.

And we had questions I asked if a forensic audit that's what I felt was appropriate.

And necessary.

>> Why do you think it was appropriate and necessary?

>> Because there was turmoil.

I had the legislature in our own state legislature, many of them signed, I can't remember it was more than 30 of them signed a letter asking to us not certificate the electors.

We had -- I had a stack of a thousand or more affidavits saying that they had witnessed fraud.

Whether that was real or not, all is I know is I have a stack of sworn affidavits, saying they had seen things that went on.

And the reality was I used the same rule that Democrats -- I actually -- I actually voted against certification.

But here is the deal.

You may be hearing that, Ted.

Would suspect that's your echo chamber.

I go out and I do speak to Democrats.

I do speak to independents.

I do speak to party no label and you know what they are asking me?

I have been asked maybe twice about that in the last year and a half I have been campaign the.

You know what they are asking me?

They are saying, how can we get more affordable?

How can I afford to have a house?

What is going on with the education for my kid?

That's the stuff I am hearing.

>> No one is asking you why you contacted the speaker of the house asking him, imploring him, urging him not to certificate?

No one is asking you about that at all?

No one is asking about your part in the January 6th demonstration not the riot that happened afterward.

No one is asking?

No one seems to care about your actions when you were very vocal and very forceful and you were a big part of that, congressman.

Please, go ahead.

>> You have totally, totally mischaracterized a number of things.

Number one, I was not involved in a demonstration on January 6th.

>> Did you help plan?

>> No.

>> That's a lie.

>> You did not help plan?

>> No.

>> How come people testified that you did?

>> Nobody they had testified that I did.

>> Name one.

>> No one said that you were involved.

The people that were involved with January 6th demonstration said you had absolutely nothing to do with it in.

>> That is absolute had -- when you say January 6th demonstration, what are you evening talking about?

Are you talking about the rail -- >> The rally.

>> Nothing do with that.

>> And wand.

>> Nothing to do that.

I wasn't there I remember John hook asking me later Andy, how -- you know, how was it being there.

>> I wasn't there.

>> I didn't think you were there -- >> I didn't help plan it.

>> You had absolutely nothing on with it.

>> Nothing would it.

>> This is a stand to go me the media has taken something and just blown it up when it's not even true.

>> Did you speak at stop the steal rallies?

>> No.

>> You did for the speak at stop the steal rallies?

>> No.

>> The not once?

>> it was a phone call somebody asked me to make a phone call.

Paul Gosar asked me to mack a phone call so I D I didn't know it was a stop the steal rally necessarily.

But I made the phone call to him.

>> But do you understand why I have to ask?

You probably don't.

Because you want to look ahead ask understand that.

But do you understand that and it's not an echo chamber congressman it's people of all different avenues here.

>> Okay.

>> They may not be supportive but they are all different avenues and there are many Republicans as well.

They want to know because we have not good a good answer from you.

>> Let's go back to some of another stuff.

What did you say?

Urge.

>> Urging the speaker of the house to the not to certificate the election, rusty Bowers says you did.

>> That's not what rusty bow -- >> What did he say?.

>> Did you watch him them.

>> What did he say.

>> Said Andy Biggs called me.

>> So what did you call him for >> I said -- and Rusty, Rusty if I had urged him, Rusty would have said Andy urged me, he pressured me.

Whatever.

I said Rusty I've got this letter here from like 30 some odd members of the legislature, are you interested in this letter?

And he said no.

I said great.

Ask him.

So you call him and said this.

And you don't think that that evening -- we'll go with that.

We'll go with that.

>> Ted is that urging?

>> We'll go with that.

>> Oh, my gosh.

>> You didn't ask him you don't do anything?

>> No.

>> Just call him out of the blue listen I got all this stuff.

Bye?

That's it?

>> That's it.

I have known Rusty forever.

>> Did you contact the white house chief of staff regarding illegitimate he lock tours?

>> No.

No.

That, again, is your characterization.

>> I am asking if you did.

>> The answer is no.

>> So you never pressured forget the word pressure you never urged anyone to accept illegitimate lectors?

You never urged anyone -- >> No.

>> Not to certificate election results?

>> No.

So.

>> Why do you think these sorries go out there?

People are saying this, people involved in many cases are saying it.

What is going here, congressman >> Who that was involved said that?

>> So I -- Rusty Bauers would not have mentioned that you had called him for no reason.

>> I think you need to go back and watch the testimony.

I think you need to go back and say watch Rusty Bauers' testimony.

Because when you watch Rusty Bauers' testimony -- and quite frankly, I think it's sad that this is devolved into that discussion instead of what I am planning to do for the State.

And what the governor has failed to do for the State.

>> I got you and for that reason, because we are running out of time.

Give me your best shot what do you plan do for this state and how do you plan to be different?

>> Well, first of all, we are going take care of the affordability issue.

We are going to bring back jobs, we are not going shrink jobs the way she has, we'll fix education she's destroyed education, she's destroyed water.

250 billion gallons of water a year have been lost because of her.

She's failed to plan for that much she can't negotiate on that.

She doesn't know how to participate in done nothing to help us build houses put moratoriums in place.

She's trying to run people off the land that they have leases on so she can build more solar and wind.

She's where she is.

And Arizona can be more prosperous, it can be more fruitful with education, we can restore the American dream to Arizona.

That is what I am going do.

And she hasn't done that.

And, you know, I mean, I would love to is I down with you sometime and just talk to you more about that other issue.

But -- >> Well, you are certainly invited to.

I would love to talk to you about, too, because the reports are out there and I need to hear from you why you say that the reports that are out there never happened.

But do I appreciate you coming on.

I mean, your opponent declined this opportunity.

>> You know, Ted, some of these things she and I could actually talk to and get to if she would even debate me.

She won't debate me.

If I am in the same room, she won't even come in to a forum.

You know a forum is usually kind of like a quasi debate she won't even come in.

>> All right.

We have to stop there.

It's good to see you again I haven't talked to you in a while.

We have to do it again sometime Congress, good to have you.

Thank you so much for joining us we appreciate it.

>> Thank you.

>> And there's it for now being I am Ted Simons thank you so much for joying us, you have a great evening.

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