♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ Gavin: Welcome to This Week in South Carolina.

I'm Gavin Jackson.

The third presidential debate took place this week with two South Carolinians on stage.

The associated presses national political reporter Meg Kinnard and Republican strategist Alex Stroman.

Join me to recap the debate.

You all thanks for joining me this week.

Alex: I Thanks, Kevin.

Megan: Great to be here.

Gavin: So, Meg, let's start with you.

You're my campaign trail warrior out there.

You were part of the Associated Press team covering the third presidential debate.

What stood out to you from this debate?

Maybe how it was different from the previous two?

Megan: I think first off, what we saw in this third GOP debate is the fact that the candidates on stage all had more time to talk.

Yeah, that's always one of the breakdowns that we see the day after a debate, who spoke the most who spoke the least who had the fewest questions.

But really, with only five candidates on stage, there was more of an opportunity for all of them to have more speaking time, I think until we got to the second hour anyway, we also saw a lot more individual answers kind of more in depth on each of the issues that came up than we've seen in some of the other sort of, you know, off the bat Brawley debates that have happened in times past second hour, a little different, a lot more spice there on the debate stage, but certainly this time, at least for the first hour, there was more of a Okay, here's the question, here's to me, whether the candidates gave a direct answer to that question is still kind of up for debate.

Not a lot of that maybe, but certainly more of an opportunity for each of them to put their ideas out there and really kind of get to the end of that time allotment for the answer as opposed to someone else, you know, cutting into interject just trying to have any speaking time at all.

Gavin: Yeah, we had a few less people on stage there, too, that freed up a lot of time.

As you're saying, Meg, Alex, I want you to piggyback on that question and just tell me, your initial impressions and takeaways from this debate.

Alex: One thing I think that is a lot different in being in person in a debate, where the Washington on television is then on TV is a lot more boring.

But I think that last night's debate was one thing that boring was was a good thing.

Because NBC put on an incredible debate.

And you know, kudos to the moderators.

Kudos to the set designer, the entire look and feel this debate was an adult conversation about very serious issues that our country is facing.

And as a comm's guy know that we that we maybe don't always answer reporters questions in the way that as directed as they can be Meg, but as a Republican as a comm's guy who's thinks that the important issues in the way that a candidate is careful about the way that they say issues on a national stage.

I think all the candidates did pretty well last night.

I think you kind of have Nikki Haley and Rhonda DeSantis are clearly the two favorites.

Clearly, we should hear more from both of those candidates on how they want to change the Republican Party, how they want to move forward past Trumpism.

And then you have three other candidates who I think all had moments, and they shine pretty well.

But at the end of the day, I think that this is a two person race for a second place between Nikki Haley and Ron DeSantis.

Gavin: Yeah, Alex, just to pick up on that when you're in that venue, when you're seeing them go back and forth at each other.

Do they really feed off that audience?

No, you heard Lester Holt say, Hey, keep it down out there.

They're doing a good job of trying to do that.

but how much does the audience feed into that?

And how much are they playing up to that audience versus maybe the TV audience?

Alex: I think It's a mixture.

I think that candidates on the stage obviously wouldn't want the applause.

Well, the polls in the room, and feet can feed off of that.

I think Donald Trump is somebody who really feeds off of that when he's in a room.

And then it has a debate.

I think back in 2016, when he was in debate venues where there was no audience, he's tended to seem low energy and not perform, but in front of a crowd in front of a stage where they're at a rally or to a debate.

He really, really feeds off that crowd in response.

But I think that the most important thing is actually for the television audience at home.

When you have studio debates, they get very boring without applause.

It's very hard to kind of pay attention to see what these moments how they go over.

And so I think that the most important thing for viewers at home is having that studio audience seeing how the studio audience responds to individuals comments and questions and and like you had last night you had some boo's when Vivek went after Nikki Haley's daughter, and then you had cheers kind of from the outset, and it wasn't overwhelming.

It wasn't disrespectful, really, for any candidate.

And so I think It's helpful for viewers to not maybe get so bored when there is a little bit of fireworks on stage and maybe fireworks in the audience.

Gavin: Having moderated a couple of debates.

I'm not gonna take any of that, personally, Alex, not having audiences but Meg gonna pick up on that, where Alex was talking about DeSantis and Haley being kind of those two front runners originally distancing themselves from the others on stage.

That first hour of the debate was really centered around foreign policy.

You know, former Governor Haley said that the world is on fire.

We're talking about, you know, the wars in Europe and the Middle East where we're seeing US soldiers attacked as well.

And then of course, everyone's watching China too.

So it seemed like this debate really gave her a chance to flex her foreign policy creds.

Megan: It was certainly anticipated that we would see a lot of that in this debate with foreign policy being something that's And Nikki Haley's wheelhouse.

Clearly, It's something she's talked about a lot.

She talks about her experience at the UN.

And also going back to her time as governor, you know, economic development trips and other relations that she built with other countries, purportedly to benefit South Carolinians here at home.

So we certainly anticipated that.

Well, we also anticipated and we did see some of was this brewing kind of back and forth between Ron DeSantis, and Nikki Haley, when it comes to a lot of those foreign policy issues, primarily China, which is something the two of them have feuded over in speeches and in ads by themselves, and also the super PACs supporting their campaigns, you know, such and such is more supportive of China, or, as Ron DeSantis said, of Nikki Haley, welcome China into South Carolina.

He went after her directly on those points as well during the debate.

So that's not necessarily something related to her overall foreign policy experience.

But since she is arguing that she is the candidate most qualified in that realm, now competing for the GOP nomination, certainly it was something that DeSantis and other opponents on the stage were ready to come after her on.

So you know, voters are obviously still making a lot of decisions and weighing their options.

But for the voters that all of us have spoken to, you know, for those who say that foreign policy really is something they want to hear more from, from these candidates.

Last night was a good opportunity for Nikki Haley and some others to really showcase that ability to say, look, I've met with these leaders, I've been to these countries, I've worked on these issues that all of you say you really care about.

So it was a good chance for her.

And, you know, we'll see how it continues to play out.

but last night, she was able to showcase some of that experience.

Gavin: And Alex, in that vein, do voters really care about foreign policy issues?

It seems like because of these foreign wars, now It's kind of front and center up there with the economy and border security.

How do you think this is gonna play out on the campaign trail?

Alex: Yeah, I think that Nikki Haley is made for this moment.

Yeah, I think all of us who have known her and watched her for years in South Carolina, she really takes advantage of whenever moments come to her, whether It's on a debate stage, or just the timing, and the rhythm of elections and campaigning.

And for her, I think this is exactly what she wants to be talking about.

She wants to be that adult in the room, that person who is sat at the table with leaders of China and Russia and our allies in the UK and France, and really delved into a whole host of issues when she she understands the conflicts that are happening in the war.

She understands the region, she understands what It's like to be in the room.

She was a member of the former president's cabinet.

One of the few times a cabinet official of the UN's UN ambassador has been a cabinet level official and Republican administration.

And so she she gets these issues.

and I think that for her, she really shined.

Last night, she obviously was clear eyed about the threats that we face as as Americans with our allies face.

and look, she's not just at towing the party line.

The Republican Party is united behind Israel.

And I'm happy to see that.

But the Republican Party has real challenges when it comes to supporting our ally of Ukraine.

and I'm on the side of Nikki Haley, I think we absolutely must support Ukraine.

I think she makes a very strong case to Republican voters that being for Ukraine means being against China and being against Russia, and being against Iran.

And so I think she's done a very good job at articulating that message.

And she's standing up for something that I mean, not all Republicans really support.

But It's good to see that on the stage.

And I think, with the exception of a Vivek Ramaswamy, with his comments comparing the president of Ukraine to a to a Nazi, which was just absolutely embarrassing.

Is good to see at least four adults in the room all standing for strength in an American power around the world.

Gavin: Meg, we were talking about strength there.

We heard from Senator Tim Scott, who basically was almost kind of calling for war with Iran.

When we look at Iran plan, a proxy and all these situations over there in the Middle East and Europe.

Others were talking tough about Iran.

We heard, you know, Haley, say, around response of strength to DeSantis saying there's be hell to pay if they harm the US military, who was stationed in the area.

Was this just a tough talk from Senator Tim Scott trying to stand out?

How did you see Tim Scott play out on that debate stage?

The other South Carolinian in this race?

Megan: Certainly in in foreign policy is one of those areas where Senator Tim Scott has faced some questions.

You know, he's not, at least currently a part of all of the Senate committees that deal with a lot of those issues.

He hasn't been a governor like some of the others there who could argue that executive experience has further lent their you know, wheelhouse and their experience level to the foreign policy realm.

But last night, he really did seem to try to harness some of those issues a little bit more directly than he has in some of these previous debates.

He did have tough talk about Iran talked about strikes that he would see as necessary.

And later, you know, I was watching follow up interviews with all of the candidates on various networks.

and he was asked directly about that.

and what does this mean, does this mean you think the US should directly be going to war with Iran and and how do you see that playing out?

And his answer wasn't, wasn't a comprehensive he was would be my attack plan on Iran, but he did talk about, you know, strategic strikes and doing specified things to try to take out targets, which at a broad level is something that I think a lot of the candidates would say would be something they would consider in dealing with Iran and the overall threat of Hamas in the region in the Middle East.

But yes, for Senator Scott, who needs to try to burnish the foreign policy credentials that he does have.

You know, last month I was on stage with Senator Scott at Georgetown University where we had a AP sponsored forum a specific to foreign policy and national security issues.

And so that's all we were talking about for an entire hour.

And you know, and having that conversation with him and and seeing him discuss these issues on the debate stage, It's clear that he has been studying up on them and further delving into them.

But when you ask, you know, what is it about your foreign policy experience directly that really makes you stand out in this field, he leans in hard on a lot of the experience he's had in the Senate on the various committees he has served on in different pieces of legislation he's worked on.

So there is some experience level there.

But when it comes to things that he himself has done directly, It's It's kind of tough to compare that to someone like Nikki Haley, who did serve as UN ambassador, as Alex noted in the president's cabinet in the previous administration, and does have a lot more direct experience when it comes to handling those kinds of issues.

Gavin: Yeah, now, It's just kind of to continue with, you know, foreign policy, we're talking about possible escalation there and how that could be a huge sell for the American public and me, especially when you're talking about Republicans not being big on Ukraine.

Now, you're talking about getting tangled up in the Middle East, again, something we haven't really seen in a while since we pulled out of Afghanistan.

Then you heard Vivek Ramaswamy really digging in on this calling everyone on stage, you know, these war hawks.

He's really pushing a non interventionist play here.

He's promised to be pretty unhinged, I guess you've kind of met that moment.

What were your thoughts on that?

I mean, are people kind of behind some of that?

I mean, you do hear folks who do not want to be involved in this in these wars and spending money over there.

How did Republicans walk this line right now?

Alex: Well, I think a couple of a couple of points here.

One was think about Tim Scott, I think one thing that's hard from the foreign policy side is that in the Senate, you are sometimes a jack of all trades, and a master of none.

And I think that's one issue where, where he's exposed to a lot of issues, but he's not been able to ever really lead at least specially when it comes to foreign policy.

And so I think that's, that's tough for him.

As we look at Vivek.

Look, I think he's an unserious candidate and the various series being a very serious time, we have a lot of challenging issues.

the world is on fire as we as we do in Europe, and Israel, all around the globe.

And so I think that what's important for Republicans to know is there's a difference in forever wars and a difference in invading other countries.

And the opposite of that is responding to attacks.

And I think that the Republicans on that stage, none of them want to go looking for war and want to put men and women in harm's way.

As has been noted, Governor DeSantis served our country, Nikki Haley was the first governor had their spouse deployed in a combat zone.

And then with their husband being serving overseas right now, it is probably the first presidential candidate with a spouse to have someone serving in the military while they're running for office.

And so I think It's really we're clear eyed when we know the the problems that our country faces.

And responding to that is that is the key part.

We're not looking for war with any any country, I don't think.

But if Americans are attacked, I think it was important for all the candidates on that stage to say they would respond in kind with the full force of the American might power.

And so I think that when you look at what's happening yet Republicans don't want to be going to other countries and chasing after war, we should always support our allies and stand up for American strength and power.

But if America gets attacked, the United States will respond.

I think in Republican voters agree with that.

Gavin: It wasn't too crazy.

but like you said, we did see some spice, especially between Vivek and Nikki Haley, like we always have seen, It's always interesting to watch those two go at it.

But we didn't really see a big blow up here moment, a moment.

I think It's probably live on more in social media.

For the folks who probably weren't watching this debate.

They're gonna say what happened here and I'm asking about this Tik Tok moment, talking about China Tik Tok, and then Nikki Haley's daughter Reena.

Megan: Yeah, we saw a little preview of this, I guess, in the second debate, but certainly last night, it was more fully formed.

And a conversation about, you know, would you as president ban Tiktok?

That was a question that the candidates were asked, and, you know, Nikki Haley was talking about how she sees Tik Tok as a threat.

A lot of the candidates have discussed, you know, the Chinese affiliation with Tik Tok and China's ability to take information or, you know, see information that users have on their their different accounts and in their platforms.

In talking about that she used that as an opportunity to specifically critique the Vivek Ramaswamy because he is the only candidate among the Republicans who is on Tik Tok, and has faced some criticism for that, but has said basically, It's where young voters are, and It's their conversation space.

I get the criticisms of it and the potential threats, but I'm here because I'm trying to reach this part of the voting population.

And when he was brought into that Ramaswamy responded to Haley and said, Well, you know, your daughter had an account on the platform.

So maybe you need to, you know, work on your own family issues and And that certainly prompted a Mama bear kind of response from Nikki Haley, which I don't think surprises many of us.

You know, we often hear like, don't bring candidates children into the conversation space.

And there was kind of a Will Smith moment when Haley turned back to Ramaswamy and said, keep my daughter's name out of your voice or keep my daughter out of your voice.

He kept going with his criticism.

And ultimately, Haley ended up saying You're scum in response to Ramaswamy ongoing critique.

After that we saw Neyland Haley, who is Haley's adult son on Twitter, defending his sister and critiquing Ramaswamy himself.

So it kind of just became its own, you know, packaged up moment where two candidates are going after each other one bringing in the others family, and also the family then responding on a different space.

And It's, It's personal, certainly, It's related to policy, definitely.

But it also showcased the conflicts and the pressure points between these two candidates who share a lot of things in common, certainly, but this was a point on which they certainly disagreed and offered voters you know, as Alex was saying, kind of like got the TV audience perhaps engaged a little bit, it was hard to hear some of what was happening until you listen back to it.

But it was a moment and certainly one that I think we are going to see popping up maybe in memes or other other social media products, even days after this debate.

Gavin: Yeah, and you certainly heard the boos there in the venue.

Um, Alex, speaking of of echo, we're going to continue on this for a moment because he did talk about the Republican Party being a bunch of losers, you are former Republican parties that you've director here in South Carolina, I want to ask you about how you thought that's going to play out.

I know, we're seeing some candidates attack Republicans for spending attack Republicans for certain things, but to call the party losers, that's got to be pretty hard to to stomach.

But I mean, obviously, there's a lot that comes with that, especially when we saw the results from this off your election on Tuesday, kind of mesh all that together, and what you think needs to be done in this party to really have a defense to win next November?

Alex: Well, I think that Vivek is probably one thing that I agree with him on is that I think that the chair, woman of the RMC, Rhonda Ronna McDaniel, really probably needs to go.

I don't think so that she's been a strong Chairman, for the party, as evidenced and some of the way she's tiptoed around the former president, how the RMC has paid his legal bills, and how the Republican Party's being out, fundraise, and out spent, and we have really nothing to show for it.

I think the Republicans are tired of losing elections.

We're doing just fine in South Carolina.

But nationally, the Republicans have a brand issue and have a major, major problem.

And I think that the way to do that is not by electing the Vivek Ramaswamy.

But by turning the page on him and own Donald Trump, and looking for new leadership.

And for those candidates on stage, which would be an incredible Republican nominee, it would be an incredible president.

But the party is definitely at a crossroads.

and I think one thing you saw last night is between Governor Christie, Ambassador Haley, Governor DeSantis, and Senator Scott, you really saw a vision for the country.

As I said earlier, I think it was really strongly moderated debate.

They allow candidates to talk about issues that were really key policy, even some key policy disagreements, when you talk about the border, and you talk about China, but but but this looks like a normal Republican Party debate last night with the exception again, of kind of the child on stage.

And I think that the Republican Party needs to hear these kinds of arguments that understand and underscore the serious times in which we live and the real threats that we face, not only here at home, not only domestically.

But as was the focus last night, as we see around the world.

So the Republican Party has some some growing up to do.

We really need to look into ourselves and evaluate how do we become a governing party again, and the governing party becoming a government governing party means moving past Donald Trump and not handing the reins over to someone like Vivek Ramaswamy and instead looking for new leadership that can actually win general elections and restores the Republicans victory hubs.

Gavin: And Meg we'll talk about Donald Trump in a moment he had his own rally there in Florida.

but I want to ask you continue with what we saw happen out across the country on Tuesday, again, off election year, but there were some big indicators that folks are reading heavily into, what do we see what do we see play on these states across the nation on Tuesday.

Megan: Democrats are feeling pretty good about the results from the off year elections this past week.

We saw a couple of wins in terms of Andy Beshear, the Democratic governor in Kentucky, winning a second term.

Abortion played a huge role in that race as it did in many other contests on which the Democratic side of things would count themselves victorious.

Abortion rights issues were big and Beshears race and he aim to portray his GOP opponent Attorney General Daniel Cameron as an extremist on that issue.

In Ohio voters took on abortion directly voting to enshrine the right to abortion into their state's constitution.

In Pennsylvania, adjusts was elected to their state Supreme Court who is validly pro abortion rights.

and It's something that was mentioned in his own campaign.

Obviously, they like judges in a different way in Pennsylvania than we do here in South Carolina.

But you know, those are just a couple of examples.

But overall, Democrats are looking at those results and seeing that as good for their ability to make these arguments on the important issue of abortion in different ways across the country, particularly after the overturning of the Roe vs. Wade decision, kick that ability back to the States.

And as we see this issue continue to come up in different states with these kinds of results.

Democrats are arguing that bodes well for their ability to continue doing that into next year's elections and potentially into the big election for President next year.

There are other states, Arizona, among them, also, potentially Nevada and Florida, that where voters are going to be taking up the issue of abortion directly in different ways on their own ballots and coming elections.

So that's just one issue.

But it is a big one that's playing a role in a lot of these elections that we saw this week.

and It's also obviously an undercurrent in the presidential election.

So still a big thing on the minds of voters.

And you know, It's unknown.

Exactly.

What, if anything, the results of the 2023 elections, what impact they'll have on 2024, Joe Biden, Donald Trump, none of the others vying to win the GOP nomination.

Were on ballots, this particular this, this last election cycle.

So you know, we can't really lay any of this directly on them.

But certainly Democrats feel good about the results they got and are hoping that they'll get similar results next year.

Gavin: Alex, we have less than five minutes left, we've been talking so much foreign policy, if like I'm a debate moderator, It's my fault.

But I want to ask you, you know, the Wall Street Journal said that the results of the GOP is Nikki Haley is if she's right when it comes to abortion, that the GOP is going to win among suburbanites and independents, that they need to go to that consensus route versus this 15 week route.

We heard from Senator Tim Scott on stage back in that 15 week abortion ban something that Vice President Mike Pence, former Vice President Pence who dropped out was also backing and also hearing from Scott really talking to evangelicals.

So do they do Republicans really need to get the issue of abortion?

Right?

I mean, we're a year away.

We saw what happened on Tuesday.

Is this a wake up call for them?

What's going to change here?

Alex: So Nikki Haley has the answer.

This answer that she gave on stage last night, I received a text from Democrats from independents, who said that she knocked it out of the park with that answer.

I think it was one of the strongest moments of the night.

And I think you saw some of the coverage with some of the folks who are watching the debate on television, after the debate, highlight her remarks there.

That's a winning message.

We need to look at things with compassion.

Look, she has she was unabashedly pro life as a governor in South Carolina, something that I think lines up with the majority of South Carolina voters.

But at the end of the day, we can't have a one size fits all, we have to look at this issue with compassion.

And she advocated for a very mainstream and reasonable answer for that.

I don't think that most Americans support late term abortions.

And I think that most people probably aren't at six weeks.

There needs to be an answer in the middle of that.

But we need to have a candidate who can carry home that message.

Nikki Haley did that last night.

Gavin: And Megan we were talking about Senator Tim Scott right there, he barely made it on the debate stage in Miami.

We have Tuscaloosa coming up and December 6, we're gonna see if he makes it on that stage.

But it seems like Scott was really filling that void that Mike Pence left when it comes to evangelical voters, especially his Pence is doubling down... Not Pence as Scott is doubling down going all in on Iowa right now.

What can you deduce from this?

Megan: Absolutely what you say that, you know, a lot of the folks who would have considered themselves to be supporters of the former vice president, particularly when it comes to issues like abortion are going to like what they're hearing from Tim Scott on that particular issue.

Obviously, both candidates focus really, really hard on Iowa and Tim Scott is the last one left standing.

But also important to note, however, that, you know, Mike Pence wasn't really registering in a dramatic fashion in the polls.

That's why he wasn't on the debate stage most recently.

So It's unclear exactly how much if any of those supporters if they head over to Tim Scott side, if that really changes a whole lot of the math here when it comes to making it to the next debate stage.

But clearly, there's a lot of ideological similarity there particularly on that issue.

Gavin: Alex, we have about like a minute 30 left, but I want to ask you, we didn't see any major direct attacks against Donald Trump.

That was obviously the first question to these candidates.

How do you differentiate between him and yourself, which a lot of candidates have been asked on the campaign trail we've heard, but no one's directly attacking him.

Is that have to change when we're 68.

Some days out from Iowa?

Alex: Yes.

The race for second place is the race for first loser.

Candidates have to be begin drawing a distinction between themselves and the former president.

I think they do that maybe without saying his name.

I think there's still a little concern about trying to not anger his base of supporters.

And I think they do that look like think last night's debate show that there are four candidates on stage that are vastly different candidates than Donald Trump, and that can win in battleground states and win a general election.

They're maybe not doing it by name, but they're doing it in style, and they're doing it in substance and I think we have done Spiro Spero while I breathe I hope I Hope that South Carolina primary voters, Iowa primary voters and New Hampshire primary voters make the right choice to move past Trump ism and take one of these candidates who can win a general election Gavin: 30 seconds Meg to this debate last night change anything and we're going to kind of be maintaining what are we watching up into the next debate?

Megan: Obviously watching to see if there is any movement in that second place slot for President Donald Trump is still dominant in this GOP primary field.

And that doesn't really seem to be changing a whole lot as these debates continue to go on.

There's a little bit of a shift from former Governor Haley has certainly gotten better in some polls, but there's still a lot of daylight between where Donald Trump is in this primary field, and where second, third, fourth place is.

So we'll see what changes but so far, it hasn't been dramatic from debate to debate.

Gavin: And we'll be watching.

That's Associated Press reporter Meg Kinnard and Republican strategist Alex Stroman.

Thanks so much, guys.

<Thank you.> For South Carolina.

ETV, I'm Gavin Jackson.

Be well South Carolina.

♪(Captioned By: SCETV)♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪