>>> COMING UP NEXT ON ARIZONA HORIZON.

A LOOK AT PROPOSITION 133 WHICH WOULD REQUIRE PARTISAN PRIMARY ELECTION FOR PARTISAN OFFICERS.

ALSO TONIGHT, WE'RE ASKING ABOUT A SPIKE IN RESIDENTIAL ELECTRIC BILLS THIS SUMMER, AND WE'LL SPEAK WITH A LOCAL AUTHOR WHOSE FIRST NOVEL WAS A COMING OF AGE STORY DURING WORLD WARS 1 AND 2.

IT'S COMING UP NEXT ON ARIZONA HORIZON.

GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO ARIZONA HORIZON, I'M TED SIMONS.

A TENTATIVE TRIAL DATE OF JANUARY 5, 2026 HAS BEEN SET FOR ARIZONA'S FAKE ELECTORS CASE -- STATE ELECTOR'S CASE.

A MARICOPA COUNTY SUPREME COURT GRANTED THE DEFENSE REQUEST FOR MORE TIME TO PREPARE BUT ADDED THIS IS AN INITIAL DAY AND IT COULD LATER BE MOVED UP.

THE TRIAL IS EXPECTED TO LAST FROM 8 TO 12 WEEKS FROM TESTIMONY FROM AS MANY AS 80 WITNESSES.

ALSO OF NOTE FROM TODAY'S HEARING, THE STATE ASKS FOR A PROTECTIVE ORDER ON GRAND JURY TRANSCRIPTS DUE TO COURT EXTRAORDINARY CIRCUMSTANCES FILED PREVIOUSLY FOR GRAND JURY INFORMATION AND PREVIOUS HARASSMENT OF A JUROR IN GEORGIA'S ELECTION CONSPIRACY CASE.

>>> AND THE GRAND CANYON REMAINS CLOSED TO TOURISTS AFTER LAST WEEK'S FLASH FLOOD THAT KILLED A GILBERT WOMAN AND PROMPTED THE EVACUATION OF MORE THAN 100 PEOPLE INCLUDING HAVASU TRIBAL MEMBERS.

NATIONAL GUARD WAS CALLED IN TO HELP WITH THE EVACUATIONS.

THE LONE FATALITY WAS A 33-YEAR-OLD WOMAN WHO WAS SWEPT AWAY WHILE HIKING WITH HER FAMILY.

A NATIONAL PARK SERVICE REPORTS THAT HER BODY WAS FOUND 19 MILES DOWN-STREAM.

>>> WE BEGIN TONIGHT WITH WHAT WAS SCHEDULED TO BE A DEBATE ON PROPOSITION 133.

A MEASURE REFERRED TO THE BALLOT BY STATE LAWMAKERS THAT WOULD REQUIRE PARTISAN PRIMARY ELECTIONS AND PROHIBIT PRIMARIES THAT ARE OUT FOR CANDIDATES TO COMPETE REGARDLESS OF AFFILIATION.

HERE TO SPEAK IS CHUCK HOFFMAN, WE REACHED OUT TO NUMEROUS SUPPORTERS OF THE PROPOSITION BUT NONE ACCEPTED OUR INVITATION TO APPEAR.

CHUCK, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME, TED.

>> PROP 133 IS NOT A GOOD THING FOR ARIZONA IN YOUR MIND BECAUSE?

>> WELL, IT INSTITUTIONIZES THE CURRENT SYSTEM WE HAVE TODAY, WHICH IS A PARTISAN PRIMARY WHERE ONLY PARTISAN CANDIDATES CAN RUN AND ONLY PARTISAN CANDIDATES CAN COMPETE.

A THIRD OF THE ARIZONA LECTOR RATE TODAY IS INDEPENDENT.

IT IS THE FASTEST GROWING PART OF THEY ELECTOR RATE TODAY.

MORE AND MORE PEOPLE ARE NOT REGISTERING WITH EITHER PARTY AND WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE THOSE CANDIDATES INCLUDED FOR ONE OF THOSE CANDIDATES TO RUN TODAY THEY NEED TO COLLECT SIX TIMES AS MANY SIGNATURES AS A PARTISAN CANDIDATE.

SO LEVEL THE PLAYING FIELD, PUT EVERYBODY ON THE SAME BALLOT, LET THEM ALL COMPETE.

THAT'S THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT THIS INITIATIVE WOULD DO.

>> AND THIS INITIATIVE ALSO WOULD FORBID OPEN PRIMARIES AND OUTLAW RANKED CHOICE VOTING.

AGAIN, YOUR THOUGHTS ON THAT.

>> WELL, WE DON'T ADVOCATE IN PROP 140, WHICH IS LATER -- WE DON'T ADVOCATE FOR SPECIFIC METHOD OF A GENERAL ELECTION.

WE THOUGHT THAT'S PROBABLY A BRIDGE TOO FAR.

WE JUST WANT TO CREATE AN OPEN PRIMARY, WHAT WE DO IS INSTRUCT THE LEGISLATURE TO MOVE AS MANY OF THE TOP 5 VOTE-GETTERS FORWARD OR AS FEW AS 2.

SO THEY COULD MOVE THE TOP 2 FORWARD.

IF THEY MOVE MORE THAN 3, WHICH WE SAID YOU NEED TO RANK THE BALLOT, BECAUSE WE WANT THAT WINNING CANDIDATE TO REPRESENT A MAJORITY OF THE ELECTORATE.

NOBODY WANTS SOMEBODY WINNING AS THEY DO TODAY IN MANY, MANY PRIMARIES WITH LESS THAN 30% OF THE VOTE.

WE HAD TWO PRIMARIES IN THIS LAST CYCLE -- THREE, ACTUALLY, WHERE THE WINNING CANDIDATES, TWO THE CANDIDATES, NOW ARE UNQUESTIONABLY GOING TO BE CONGRESS PEOPLE, GOT ELECTED WITH LESS THAN 30% OF THE ELECTORATE.

WE THINK THAT'S JUST A DISAPPOINTMENT.

WE WANT MORE PEOPLE TO MAKE THOSE DECISIONS.

>> AND YOU MENTIONED PROP 40.

AND THIS WAS REFERRED -- MOST PEOPLE BELIEVE THIS WAS REFER BID LAWMAKERS TO COUNTER PROP 140.

YOUR THOUGHTS ON THAT PARTICULAR STRATEGY.

>> WELL, I WELCOME IT BECAUSE IT GIVES VOTERS A CLEAR CONTRAST ON, YOU KNOW, CHANGE OR STATUS QUO.

AND IF YOU'RE HAPPY WITH THE STATUS QUO, THEN GO AHEAD AND VOTE FOR THAT SYSTEM.

IF YOU'RE NOT, THEN YOU SHOULD EMBRACE PROP 140, I THINK THEY PUT IT ON, YOU KNOW, AS WE ALL KNOW, THE LEGISLATURE'S DOMINATED BY THE VERY PEOPLE WHO GET ELECTED IN THESE VERY PARTISAN PRIMARIES.

THERE'S 30 LEGISLATIVE DISTRICTS IN OUR STATE, AND THERE'S ONLY FOUR TRULY COMPETITIVE DISTRICTS.

THE REST OF THEM ALL GET LEGISLATED IN PRIMARIES.

>> AND YET WHAT WHAT YOU PREVIOUSLY DECIDED WITH RANK VOTING IF X, Y, AND Z WOULD HAVE HAPPENED FIRST, WHAT THE FOLKS I THINK AT PROP 133 WOULD TELL YOU WE DON'T HE EVEN NEED TO GO DOWN THAT ROAD.

THAT'S CONFUSING.

IT'S NOT NECESSARY.

PEOPLE KNOW IT'S GOING ON RIGHT NOW.

THEY MAY NOT LIKE IT, BUT THEY KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON RIGHT NOW.

IT'S SIMPLE.

IT'S EASY.

DO THEY HAVE A POINT?

>> TED, MOVE ALONG, EVERYTHING IS WORKING JUST FINE.

IF YOU BELIEVE OUR SYSTEM IS WORKING JUST FINE, I WOULD AGREE WITH YOU.

I DON'T AGREE WITH YOU.

I THINK OUR SYSTEM IS NOT WORKING WELL.

IT DOESN'T REFLECT OUR AMERICAN ECONOMIC MODEL OF COMPETITION.

OUR AMERICAN ECONOMIC MODEL IS ABOUT COMPETITION.

IT'S ABOUT REWARDING COMPETITION.

COMPETITION PRODUCES BETTER CANDIDATES, BETTER RESULTS, BETTER ARIZONA.

THIS SYSTEM DIMINISHES COMPETITION.

>> PROP 133 WAS -- WOULD SUPERSEDE ANY NON-PARTISAN, ANY CITY CHARTER, ANY LAW, ANY RULE, ANY ORDINANCE?

>> YES.

>> IT SUPERSEDES ALL OF IT, AGAIN, IN THE IDEA OF MAKING EVERYTHING THE SAME, AND, THEY WOULD ARGUE, I WOULD IMAGINE, INCREASING THE COMPETITION YOU JUST REFERRED TO FOR THINGS LIKE CITY RACES, WHERE YOU OFTEN DON'T SEE POLITICAL AFFILIATION.

>> BECAUSE EVERYBODY THINKS CITIES ARE JUST RUN TERRIBLY.

I MEAN ALL THE DATA POINTS THAT WE GET BACK WHEN WE'RE DOING SURVEY WORK IS THAT EVERYBODY REALLY EMBRACES HOW THEIR CITIES ARE BROUGHT OPERATING, BY AND LARGE.

MOST PEOPLE APPROVE OF HOW THEIR CITIES ARE BEING RUN.

WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE?

IT'S NON-PARTISAN ELECTION.

IT'S DOING EXACTLY WHAT PROP 140 WOULD DO, ALLOWING EVERYBODY TO COMPETE, PICK THE BEST CANDIDATES, AND THEN A NUMBER OF THEM MOVE ON.

AND THIS PROP WOULD CHANGE ALL THAT.

IT COULD POTENTIALLY REQUIRE PARTISAN ELECTIONS FOR EVERY CITY IN THE STATE.

>> FOR THOSE WHO SAY PARTIES HAVE A RIGHT TO ALLOW ONLY THEIR MEMBERS TO DECIDE WHO FROM THE PARTY GETS TO REPRESENT THEM, HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO THAT?

>> WELL, THEN GO CAMPAIGN FOR THAT.

AND GO CAMPAIGN FOR YOUR NOMINEE.

IF YOU'RE RUNNING AS A DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE, THEN YOU GET THE PARTY'S ENDORSEMENT.

THEY'RE A PRIVATE ORGANIZATION.

THEY DO NOT OWN A PIECE OF THE PUBLIC BALLOT.

THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO CAMPAIGN PRIVATELY FOR THEIR NOMINEE.

I AGREE WITH THAT.

I THINK THIS STRENGTHENS THE PROP 140 -- I BELIEVE IT STRENGTHENS PARTISAN POLITICS BECAUSE IT EMPOWERS PARTIES TO PICK AND PICK THEIR CANDIDATE, BUT THEN THEY GO CAMPAIGN FOR.

THEY HAVE TO HAVE A PIECE -- THEY'RE NOT OBLIGATED.

WE'RE NOT GIVING THEM A PIECE OF OUR BALLOT.

THEY HAVE TO TERN.

>> THE ARGUMENT ON THE OTHER SIDE WOULD BE, IF I'M A DEMOCRAT OR A REPUBLICAN RUNNING FOR OFFICE, I WANT MY FELLOW DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS TO SEND ME TO THE OFFICE.

I DON'T WANT DEMOCRAT HERE, A REPUBLICAN THERE CRASHING THE PARTY, AND DOING YOU KNOW WHAT IN THE PUNCH BOWL.

>> WELL, THE CONSTITUTION NEVER SAID ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

GEORGE WASHINGTON NEVER SAID ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

JOHN ADAMS, ALEXANDER HAMILTON, NOBODY SAID YOU HAVE A RIGHT AS A PARTISAN CANDIDATE TO A PIECE OF THE FRANCHISE.

THEY SAID COMPETE.

JUST LET PEOPLE COMPETE.

AND THIS IS AN AMERICAN TRADITION OF OPEN COMPETITION.

>> SO THEY ARGUE PRIMARIES ARE PARTY ELECTIONS.

THEY ARE PARTY ELECTIONS, THEY'RE NOT A PUBLIC ELECTION.

YOU SAY -- >> I AGREE.

THAT'S THE WAY THEY'VE MONOPOLIZED IT.

WE'VE ALLOWED THEM TO MONOPOLIZE OUR TAXPAYER DOLLARS.

SO AS AN INDEPENDENT, WHICH I AM, I'M A PND, I'M PAYING FOR YOUR PARTISAN ELECTION.

WHAT SENSE DOES THAT MAKE?

WHY SHOULD I USE MY TAXPAYER DOLLARS TO PAY FOR YOUR PRIVATE PARTY ELECTIONS?

THAT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE.

>> NOT MY PARTY, BUT -- DON'T POINT TO ME.

>> WELL... >> AND THE IDEA, AGAIN, WOULD BE WHAT'S THE POINT OF A PARTY IF THE PARTY CAN'T SELECT ITS OWN CANDIDATE.

>> IT IS DEBATE.

IT IS OPEN AND HONEST DEBATE, AND THEY CAN HAVE A DEBATE WITHIN THEIR PRIVATE PARTY ABOUT WHO THEY WANT TO NOMINATE AND WHO THEY WANT TO CAMPAIGN FOR.

IT DOESN'T ENTITLED THEM TO A PLACE ON A SELECTED BALLOT WHERE EVERY OTHER VOTER IS DISCRIMINATED AND IT MAKES HARDER FOR PEOPLE NOT A MEMBER OF THEIR PARTY TO COMPETE.

>> LAST QUESTION, IF -- LET'S SAY PROP 133 AND PROP 140, WHICH IS THE ONE THAT YOU CALL FOR OPEN PRIMARIES.

THIS SAYS NO OPEN PRIMARIES.

WHAT IF THEY BOTH PASS?

>> THE ONE WITH THE MOST VOTES WINS.

>> ISN'T THAT INTERESTING.

>> YES, SO WE ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO VOTE FOR PROP 140.

OUR POLLING DATA SAYS THAT'S WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN.

MOST PEOPLE ARE UNDERSTANDING THE INEQUITIES OF OUR CURRENT SYSTEM TODAY.

THEY EMBRACE FAIRNESS.

THAT'S WHY WE CALL IT "MAKE ELECTIONS FAIR" AND ALLOW PEOPLE TO COMPETE.

AND THAT'S WHY WE'RE CONFIDENT IN THE OUTCOME THAT WE'LL HAVE IN NOVEMBER.

>> CHUCK, SPEAKING AGAINST PROPOSITION 1 TRACKER GOOD TO SEE YOU.

THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANKS, TED.

A NUMBER OF APS CUSTOMERS ARE SAYING THEY'VE SEEN A BIG INCREASE IN THEIR BILL.

THEY SAY THEIR USE HAS NOT CHANGED.

JOINING US NOW IS CORPORATION COMMISSIONER ANNA, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> LOTS OF REPORTS ON THIS.

I THINK ANYONE WHO GETS AN APS BILL LOOKS AT IT AND GOES, HOLY SMOKES, WHAT'S GOING ON HERE?

>> WELL, WHAT'S GOING ON IS THEY'VE HAD BACK-TO-BACK RATE INCREASES SO CASES IN 2019, ANOTHER WEIGHT CASE IN 2022.

AND POSSIBLY ANOTHER WEIGHT CASE IN 2025.

THE 2019 WAS ABOUT A $49 MILLION KNELT INCREASE.

WE TALKED ABOUT THIS LAST RATE INCREASE -- NOT WEIGHT CASE.

BUT JUST OVER $253 MILLION OF A NET INCREASE, AND SO THIS IS PROBABLY THE MOST PROMINENT RATE INCREASE THAT CUSTOMERS HAD SEEN IN QUITE A WHILE.

SO THEY DO HAVE THAT STICKER SHOCK WHEN IT COMES TO WOW, WHY IS MY BILL SO NYE.

>> THAT RATE INCREASE WAS IN -- >> JUST THE PAST YEAR, 2023.

>> OKAY.

SO HOW LONG -- IS THERE A LAG THERE BEFORE THESE RATE, THESE NUMBERS, THESE BILLS START GOING UP, OR DO THEY GO UP THE MINUTE IT HITS?

>> WELL, ESSENTIALLY WHEN WE APPROVE THE RATE CASE, AND AGAIN, IN THIS RATE CASE I VOTED NO.

BUT IT WAS THE MAJORITY THAT VOTED YES.

IT WILL GO INTO EFFECT PROBABLY THAT VERY NEXT MONTH.

USUALLY IT'S IN ORDER OF WHEN IT GOES EVENTUAL EFFECT.

>> WHY DID YOU VOTE AGAINST THAT HIKE?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, I'M TASKED TO HAVE A BALANCE IN REGARDS TO MAKING SURE A COMPANY IS VIABLE, AND AT THE SAME TIME PROTECTING THE CONSUMER.

SO IT IS A GIVE AND TAKE.

AND IN MY OPINION IN THIS CASE, IT WEIGHED HEAVY FULLY REGARDS TO FAVORING THE COMPANY ITSELF.

AND SO I WAS TRYING TO DO THINGS TO LOWER THAT AMOUNT SO THAT, YOU KNOW, CONSUMERS WOULDN'T SEE THE STICKER SHOCK, YOU KNOW, AND ESPECIALLY, AS YOU NOTED, THEY'RE SPENDING THE SAME AMOUNT OF ELECTRICITY BUT YET THEIR BILL IS A LOT HIGHER.

>> APS, THOUGH, SAYS THE HIGHER USAGE IS AT PLAY HERE.

THEY'RE ALSO SAYING BECAUSE OF THE HOT WEATHER, WE'VE HAD HAT TRICKLY HOT WEATHER THE PAST TWO SUMMERS, THAT THAT IS AT PLAY AS WELL.

AGAIN, IS THERE A SIGNAL.

>> YES.

IT CAN BE IN PLAY AS WELL -- IS THERE A BALANCE?

>> YES.

BUT WHEN YOU COMPARE IT TO ANOTHER ELECTRIC COMPANY AND YOU CAN LOOK AT THEM AND THEY'VE DONE STUDIES IN REGARDS TO AN APS CUSTOMER AND SRP CUSTOMER, AND TYPICALLY THE SRP CUSTOMER IS PAYING 30% LESS OR MORE IN REGARDS TO THE SAME AMOUNT OF ELECTRICITY THAT IS BEING USED.

>> HAS APS GIVEN A REASON FOR THAT IS THIS.

>> WELL, THEY ARE A FOR-PROFIT COMPANY WHERE, YOU KNOW -- AND SRP ISN'T.

>> BUT AS FAR AS THE FACT THAT THEY HAVE -- ARE THEY BASICALLY SAYING THAT WE DON'T KNOW WHAT WE'RE DOING IF WE SAY THAT OUR USAGE HASN'T INCREASE ST. PATRICK'S DAY?

THEY'RE SAYING IT -- HASN'T INCREASED?

THEY'RE SAYING IT HAS.

IT SOUNDS LIKE THEY'RE SAYING YOU MAY NOT BE AWARE IT BUT YOU ARE USING MORE ELECTRICITY.

>> A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO I FOUND THE LETTER FROM APS BECAUSE WE WERE BEING INUNDATED BY CONSUMERS SAYING HOW IS THIS HAPPENING.

WHAT PLAN AM I ON.

SO I REALLY ASKED A LOT OF QUESTIONS TO THE PRESIDENT IN SAYING TELL ME A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT YOUR RATE PLANS.

BECAUSE TYPICALLY A CUSTOMER CAN CHOOSE WHATEVER RATE PLAN THEY FEEL WILL SAVE THEM THE MOST MONEY.

MOST OF THE TIME CONSUMERS ARE NOT AWARE OF, THIS SO THEY MAY CALL MAYBE AN APS NUMBER TRYING TO GET HELP AND SAYING, HEY, HOW IS MY BILL SO HIGH?

THE OPERATOR SHOULD BE EXPLAINING TO THEM THAT THERE IS A LOT OF DIFFERENT, YOU KNOW, RATE PLANS THAT THEY CAN GO ON.

AND ONE IS TIME OF USE, AND TIME OF USE IS TYPICALLY THE ONE THAT WILL SAVE THE CUSTOMER THE MOST AMOUNT OF MONEY, AND THEN AGAIN, YOU KNOW, YOU ARE USING YOUR MAXIMUM ELECTRICITY CERTAIN TIMES OF THE DAY, HENCE SAVING YOU MONEY.

>> I KNOW, ENERGY REPORT PROGRAMS SAY THEY CAN CUT BILLS UP TO $85 A MONTH, THERE'S A BUDGET BILLING PROGRAM, AN ASSISTANCE PROGRAM.

THESE THINGS ARE OUT THERE.

ARE THEY MAKING A DIFFERENCE?

IT SOUNDS LIKE IT MIGHT BE MAKING A DIFFERENCE OVER HERE, BUT OVER HERE WE STILL GOT THESE BILLS THAT ARE SKYROCKETING.

>> IT IS.

AND I THINK WE THAT INCIDENT DURING COVID TIME, AS WELL, TOO, WHEN PEOPLE WERE UNTRIBAL PAY THEIR BILLS, AND NOW WE'RE SEEING IT AGAIN.

-- THEY WERE UNABLE TO PAY THEIR BILLS.

AND WE HAD THE FUND AS WELL, TOO.

YOU CAN USE IT ONCE A YEAR SO THAT YOU CAN FUNDS TO GO AROUND FOR DIFFERENT FAMILIES.

>> SO I'M SEEING LIKE 30% INCREASES HERE.

IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE HEARING?

>> TYPICALLY THAT'S WHAT WE'RE HEARING FROM CUSTOMERS THAT CALL OUR OFFICE.

>> YEAH.

WHAT DO YOU TELL PEOPLE WHO SAY I NEED TO FIGURE OUT WHAT TO DO; THIS IS KILLING ME?

>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, I ASK THEM, YOU KNOW, WHAT PLAN ARE YOU ON WITH APS.

TYPICALLY THEY DON'T KNOW.

AND THAT'S WHY MY LETTER WAS PROMPTED TO THE PRESIDENT TO LEARN A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT WHERE THEY'RE PUTTING PEOPLE IN THEIR PLANS AND DO CUSTOMERS ACTUALLY ED -- ARE THEY ACTUALLY EDUCATED ON THIS PROCESS?

BECAUSE IT CAN GET A LITTLE WONKY IN REGARDS TO TRYING TO FIGURE THIS OUT IF YOU DON'T KNOW.

BUT AGAIN WHAT PEOPLE SEE WHEN THEY OPEN THEIR BILL, IT'S LIKE WHAT IS THIS SURCHARGE, WHAT IS THIS, WHAT IS THAT.

I TELL THEM TO ASK THE QUESTIONS TO BECOME AN INFORMED AND EDUCATED CUSTOMER SO THAT THEY'RE ABLE TO MAKE THE RIGHT CHOICE ON WHICH PLAN THEY SHOULD BE ON AND HOPEFULLY TO SAVE MONEY.

I'VE SENT TWO LETTERS OUT.

THEY'VE RESPONDED TO BOTH OF THEM.

WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO WORK, AND I JUST PRIDE MYSELF IN BEING THAT CONSUMER ADVOCATE THAT APS CONSUMERS CAN CALL MY OFFICE, AND I'M HERE TO HELP THEM.

>> ALL RIGHT.

ARIZONA CORPORATION COMMISSIONER, ANNA, GOOD HAVE YOU HERE, LET'S HOPE THE WEATHER COOLS A LITTLE BIT AND SAVES US SOME MONEY, HUH.

>> YES.

>> THANKS FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU.

>>> LOCAL JOURNALIST AND AUTHOR MARK HAAS IS OUT WITH HIS FIRST NOVEL SET IN UKRAINE BETWEEN WORLD WAR I AND WORLD WAR II.

IT IS TITLED "THE DAYS BEFORE TOMORROW," AND IT'S A COMING OF AGE STORY THAT COMBINES WAR, FAMILY, AND THE HUMAN SPIRIT.

WELCOME, MARK, FOR BEING HERE.

GOOD TO HAVE YOU.

YOUR DEBUT NOVEL, RIGHT?

NOT BAD.

HOW'S IT FEEL TO HAVE THE BOOK IN YOUR HAND?

>> IT WAS A JOURNEY TO GET IT TO THIS PLACE AND NOW I'M ACTUALLY LEARNING TO APPRECIATE THE STORY MORE NOW THAT IT'S OUT OF MY HEAD AND ON PAPER, AND I'M ABLE TO READ IT AS A READER, AS WELL AS THE WRITER.

>> I WAS GONNA SAY, SOMETIMES IT SEEMS LIKE WHEN YOU CREATE SOMETHING, AND YOU STEP AWAY, YOU COME BACK TO IT AND IT'S LIKE, WHOA, WHO DID THAT.

FOR A WRITER, YOU CREATED SOMETHING FOR A LONG PERIOD OF TIME.

IT'S OUT THERE IN THE WORLD NOW.

WHEN YOU PICK IT UP, WHEN YOU LOOK AT IT, DO YOU WONDER, WHO WROTE THIS?

>> YEAH, UNFORTUNATELY IT'S LIKE, OH, THAT'S ME.

BUT THE STORY LIVED IN MY HEAD FOR SO LONG.

AND THERE ARE VERY FEW PEOPLE WHO LIVED IN THAT WORLD WITH ME.

AND NOW THAT THE BOOK IS PUBLISHED, THE WORLD CAN BE SHARED WITH MY READERS AND I CAN HAVE CONVERSATIONS.

I CAN -- WE CAN UNDERSTAND THAT WORLD AND IT'S LIBERATING TO ACTUALLY BE ABLE TO TALK ABOUT THE BOOK WELL SOMEONE WHO UNDERSTANDS IT.

>> WHAT INSPIRES YOU?

THIS IS A HISTORICAL NOVEL HERE STUCK BETWEEN THE TWO WORLD WARS.

THERE'S A LOT GOING ON HERE.

WHAT INSPIRED NEW.

>> THE BOOK IS LOOSELY FACT INSPIRED BASED ON MY FATHER'S LIFE.

MY FATHER GREW UP IN A SMALL TOWN THAT'S LIKE THE ONE WHERE THIS STORY IS SET.

HE HAD EXPERIENCES THAT ARE SIMILAR TO THE EXPERIENCES OF THE MAIN CHARACTER WA ALCHIE BUT A VERY SMALL PART OF IT, BUT IT'S MY OWN EFFORT TO KIND OF BETTER UNDERSTAND MY FATHER'S YOUNG LIFE THAT LED ME TO DO RESEARCH ABOUT THE PLACE AND THE TIME AND THE STORY MERGED FROM THAT RESEARCH.

>> AND IN EASTERN EUROPEAN IMMIGRANTS.

>> THAT'S CORRECT.

>> SO I'M SURE SOME OF THE STORIES TOLD AROUND THE DINING ROOM TABLE AND SOME THE STORIES TOLD AT THE FUNCTIONS KIND OF STUCK WITH YOU.

>> YEAH, UNFORTUNATELY MY MOTHER AND FATHER DIDN'T TALK TOO MUCH ABOUT THEIR EXPERIENCES, A LITTLE TOUGH.

>> YEAH, INTERESTING.

>> SO ONE OF THE THINGS I HAD TO DO AS A JOURNALIST IS TO TRY TO EXPLORE THAT PLACE AND TIME AND TRY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THEIR LIVES WOULD HAVE BEEN LIKE, YOU KNOW.

WHAT WOULD THEIR NEIGHBORS LIKE, WHAT WERE THEY EATING, WHAT WAS THE CULTURE LIKE, WHAT WERE THEY TALKING ABOUT, WHAT WHAT WERE THEY READING?

>> AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WORLD WAR I, WORLD WAR II, PERSISTENT ANTI-SEMITISM, SOME OF THE WORST THINGS THAT RX HUMAN BEINGS HAVE DONE TO EACH OTHER, AND YOU'RE IMMERSING YOURSELF INTO THIS WORLD.

WAS THAT TOUGH?

>> IT WAS.

AND, YOU KNOW, I FOUND MYSELF -- I NEVER ACTUALLY SAID THIS OUT LOUD.

I FOUND MYSELF AT TIMES CRYING, TEARING UP, KIND OF WRITING THE STORY.

IT WAS THIS COMING OF AGE THEME THAT REALLY FASCINATED ME, TOO.

IMAGINE GROWING UP BEING 13, BEING 14, AND GOING THROUGH THAT PERIOD IN THE 1930s WHEN THE WORLD WAS BLOWING UP AND CHANGING, EVERYTHING WAS CHANGING.

SO YOU'RE CHANGING AS A YOUNG MAN AND A YOUNG WOMAN AND EVERYTHING AROUND YOU CHANGING AT A GREATER PACE.

WE ALL KNOW HOW TOUGH ADOLESCENCE IS.

>> INDEED.

AND AGAIN, THE STORY -- YOU'VE GOT A PLOT HERE.

YOU'VE GOT THE STORY, THE WHOLE 9 YARDS.

DID YOU KNOW HOW THIS BOOK WAS GOING TO PROCEED AND END WHEN YOU FIRST STARTED WRITING IT?

>> YEAH.

AS A JOURNALIST I WAS OUTLINING ANY STUFF, RIGHT.

BUT MY OUTLINE KIND OF GAVE WAY TO MY IMAGINATION.

I FOUND THAT THE CHARACTERS TOOK ON THEIR OWN LIVES AND MADE THEIR OWN DECISIONS THAT WERE DIFFERENT FROM THE ONE THAT THE WRITER HAD MADE AT THE BEGINNING OF THE PROCESS, SO THE BOOK CHANGED QUITE A LOT, ACTUALLY.

AND THE ARC OF THE CHARACTERS CHANGED QUITE A LOT.

I'M HAPPY TO SAY IT WORKED OUT, I FEEL IT'S BETTER THANK THE STORY I IMAGINED.

>> AND TALK ABOUT YOUR WRITING SKILLS.

YOU OBVIOUSLY -- IF IT AFFECTS YOU AS EMOTIONALLY AS YOU JUST MENTIONED THAT IT DID AT TIMES MUST HAVE BEEN SOME TOUGH SLEDDING THROUGHOUT.

>> I TOOK A VERY WORK WORKMAN-LIKE APPROACH.

I BELIEVE WHAT IS SAID YOU BECOME A WRITER BY WRITING.

SO I WOULD WRITE EVERY MORNING FOR THREE OR FOUR HOURS SIX DAYS A WEEK, AND IT TOOK ME ABOUT A YEAR TO GET DOWN THE FIRST DRAFT.

AND THEN I REWROTE THE BOOK A COUPLE OF TIMES TO GET IT CLOSER.

AND I THINK THAT IT'S JUST -- INSTEAD -- IT'S A PROCESS, RIGHT.

>> YES.

YES.

YOU MENTIONED CHARACTERS KIND OF -- I HEAR THAT FROM AUTHORS ALL OF THE TIME, THAT THE CHARACTER ALSO DO WHAT THE CHARACTERS WANT TO, DO AND I CAN'T SEEM TO CONTROL THEM.

IS THE FINISHED PRODUCT WHAT YOU ENVISIONED WHEN YOU STARTED?

>> IT ACCOMPLISHED WHAT I WANTED TO ACCOMPLISH.

>> WHAT WAS THAT.

>> WHICH WAS TO TELL THE STORY OF SOMEONE LIKE MY FATHER GROWING UP UP IN THAT KIND OF WORLD, A STORY THAT IS LARGELY FORGOTTEN, AND THE THINGS THAT HAPPENED WERE LARGELY FORGOTTEN.

SO NOW THEY'RE SORT OF DOCUMENTED, RIGHT, AND I FEEL THAT THAT ACCOMPLISH -- I ACCOMPLISHED TELLING THAT STORY.

>> DID YOU PICTURE A PARTICULAR READ WHEN YOU WERE WRITING?

>> YOU KNOW, I DIDN'T.

I KNOW THAT SOME WRITERS DO THAT, PICTURE A PARTICULAR READER.

I WAS TRYING TO PUT MYSELF IN THE STORY, IMAGINING MYSELF IN THE SCENE, HOW WOULD I DESCRIBE THE SCENE IF I WERE A JOURNALIST AND THIS IS WHAT WAS HAPPENING.

I TOOK THAT KIND OF APPROACH.

I REALLY RELIED ON MY JOURNALISTIC TRAINING AND MY BACKGROUND.

>> A LOT OF JOURNALISTS WHEN THEY GET INTO FICTION WRITING, THEY JUST HATE STONE WALL.

IT'S DIFFICULT FOR JOURNALISTS AT TIMES TO GET INTO FICTION BECAUSE THERE'S THE WAY, AS YOU WELL KNOW, THAT JOURNALISTS GO ABOUT THE FACTS, GET THE OUTLINE AS YOU SAID, AND SOMETIMES WHEN DO YOU FICTION IT'S VERY DIFFERENT.

>> YEAH.

WELL, I STARTED LIFE -- MY YOUNG LIFE AS A WRITER.

I WAS AN ENGLISH MAJOR IN COLLEGE AND WHEN PEOPLE ASKED ME WHAT I WANTED TO DO, I WANTED TO WRITE FICTION.

SO I NEVER LOST THAT LIFELINE AS I WENT THROUGH JOURNALISM.

>> IS THERE MORE IN YOUR FUTURE?

>> I IMAGINE THIS BOOK IS ONE OF THREE COMING OF AGE STORIES.

I'M FASCINATED WITH THE COMING OF AGE PROCESS, KIND OF MOVEMENT FROM YOUTH TO ADULTHOOD.

AND SO THIS KIND OF CAPTURED MY FATHER'S EXPERIENCE.

I'M GOING TO WORK ON A SECOND BOOK THAT CAPTURES MY COMING OF AGE EXPERIENCE.

AND I HOPE TO BE ALIVE LONG ENOUGH TO CAPTURE MY CHILDREN CHILDREN'S COMING OF AGE EXPERIENCE.

>> HOLLYWOOD?

>> MY AGENT SAID NO ONE'S BUYING PERIOD PIECES.

>> BUT THE BOOK REMINDS ME OF EVERYTHING YOU SEE ON TCM, FOR GOODNESS.

IT'S GOT THAT HISTORICAL -- AND YOU'RE CHANGING HANDS IN PHOENIX ON THURSDAY NIGHT, CORRECT?

>> CORRECT.

>> ALL RIGHT.

THE DAYS BEFORE TOMORROW, THAT'S THE COVER, THAT'S THE WRITER.

CONGRATULATIONS ON YOUR DEBUT NOVEL.

VERY IMPRESSIVE.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> AND THAT IS IT FOR NOW.

I'M TED SIMONS.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

YOU HAVE A GREAT EVENING.