>>Funding for New Mexico in Focus provided  by viewers like you.

>> THIS WEEK ON NEW  MEXICO IN FOCUS… PERSPECTIVE ON A  PLAN TO EXPAND NUCLEAR WEAPONS  MANUFACTURING IN LOS ALAMOS.

>> Greg Melo: This has not happened really since  the 1940s.

>> AND HOW ADVOCATES PUSHED  THE INTERIOR DEPARTMENT TO BAN  NEW EXTRACTION LEASES IN THE GREATER CHACO AREA.

NEW MEXICO IN  FOCUS STARTS NOW.

>>Gene Grant: BUT WE  START WITH A VOICE WHO HAS WORKED TO  PROTECT THE HISTORIC LANDSCAPE  AROUND CHACO CANYON.

MARIO  ATENCIO IS THE GREATER CHACO  ENERGY ORGANIZER WITH ‘DINÉ CARE.’ IN  THIS CASE – CARE STANDS FOR  ‘CITIZENS AGAINST RUINING OUR  ENVIRONMENT.’ ATENCIO TALKED  WITH OUR LAND SENIOR PRODUCER  LAURA PASKUS ABOUT HOW OIL AND GAS  DRILLING HAS AFFECTED LANDS  WHERE HIS FAMILY LIVES, AND THE  SAGEBRUSH STEPPE LANDSCAPE NEAR  COUNSELOR AND LYBROOK, NEW MEXICO.

>> Laura: MARIO  ATENCIO.

WELCOME, THANKS FOR JOINING ME.

>> Atencio: THANK YOU.

>> Laura: SO CAN YOU DESCRIBE THE AREA WHERE YOUR FAMILY  HAS AN ALLOTMENT OR LAND IN NORTH WESTERN NEW MEXICO?

>> Atencio: MY FAMILY, FIRST OFF, I AM  NAVAJO.

MY FAMILY IS FROM COUNSELOR, NEW MEXICO.

>> Laura: HOW HAS  THAT LANDSCAPE IN YOUR EXPERIENCE AND YOUR FAMILY'S EXPERIENCE BEEN IMPACTED BY OIL AND GAS DRILLING ESPECIALLY LIKE IN THE LAST DECADE OR SO?

>> Atencio: IT IS  HIGHLY IMPACTFUL.

IN FEBRUARY, 2019 THEY SPILLED, THE OIL COMPANIES THROUGH TECHNICAL ERRORS, SPILLED ABOUT ONE THOUSAND BARRELS WHICH IS OVER 50,000 GALLONS OF TOXIC WASTEWATER AND OIL INTO -- ON TO OUR LANDS AND THE SUBSEQUENT LAB ANALYSIS SAYS THAT THE AQUIFER HAS BEEN CONTAMINATED, THE GROUNDWATER.

AND THAT IS PRETTY INFURIATING.

WE, MY FAMILY, WE WERE NEVER NOTIFIED BY ANYBODY.

A RESEARCHER THAT WORKS IN THE REGION SAYS THIS BIG OLE SPILL HAPPENED.

LIKE, REALLY?

WHERE?

AND THEN OUR GROUP, THE RIO CHACO, WENT OUT THERE AND THEY WENT TO ACTUALLY WHERE MY DAD'S LAND IS AND FOR A MILE DOWN THE WASH INTO THE ESCAVADA WHICH FLOWS INTO CHACO CANYON, THAT TRIBUTARY WASH, ALL THAT OIL AND TOXIC WASTE DUMPED IN THERE.

>> Laura: I THINK A FEW -- A FEW DAYS AFTER THAT SPILL THERE WAS ALSO AN EXPLOSION AND A FIRE AT ANOTHER WELL NEARBY.

CAN YOU TELL ME ABOUT THAT?

>> Atencio: EVEN NOW WE DON'T KNOW.

THERE HAS BEEN NO REAL REPORTS, ONLY THROUGH A REPORTER YEARS LATER WERE WE EVEN MADE AWARE OF ANOTHER EXPLOSION.

MY FAMILY, MY UNCLE, HE HEARD IT.

SOUNDED LIKE DYNAMITE HE SAID.

AND I ONLY KNEW THAT AFTER IT WAS REPORTED -- THEY DID INVESTIGATIVE REPORTING ON WHAT HAPPENED OUT THERE.

>> Laura: WHAT ARE SOME OF THE HEALTH IMPACTS THAT YOU SEE OR HEAR ABOUT FROM PEOPLE HAVING TO LIVE SO CLOSE TO THESE, LIKE, INCREASINGLY INDUSTRIALIZED LANDSCAPES?

>> Atencio: WHAT WE SEE IN OUR HEALTH ANALYSIS, THERE WAS A SURVEY DONE, 80% OF PEOPLE ARE EXPERIENCING HEADACHES, BODY ACHES, LIKE, RASHES.

ONE ANECDOTAL STORY IS THAT A LOT LEADER FOR THE COUNSELOR'S COMMUNITY, THE TRAPPER COMMUNITY, HE IS A BUS DRIVER FOR THE LITTLE ONES.

AND THE STORY HE TOLD IN A PUBLIC MEETING WAS THAT ALL OF A SUDDEN, HE LOOKED AND HE SAW THAT ALL THE YOUNG KIDS WERE ALL USING INHALERS.

LIKE ASTHMA.

HE SAID THAT SCARED HIM AND AROUND THE LYBROOK ELEMENTARY SCHOOL, ELEMENTARY SCHOOL BUS DRIVER, AROUND IT THERE ARE 14 WELLS THAT SURROUND LYBROOK ELEMENTARY SCHOOL.

SO THAT IS A STORY WE ARE VERY FOCUSED ON.

THOSE ANECDOTAL STORIES.

BUT WE DID AN ANALYSIS AND SURVEY FOR THE COMMUNITY AND THERE IS IMPACTS, SYMPTOMS OF EXPOSURE TO CERTAIN CHEMICALS.

>> Laura: DINE CARE AND OTHER ORGANIZATIONS HAVE BEEN TRYING TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THE INCREASED OIL AND GAS DRILLING FOR OVER A DECADE, I KNOW.

HAS THERE BEEN ANY SORT OF PROGRESS IN WORKING WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT OR COMPANIES TO SORT OF REIN IN SOME OF THAT DEVELOPMENT OR MAKE IT SAFER OR CLEANER?

>> Atencio: YES.

DINE CARE, WHO I WORK FOR, AS THE GREATER CHACO ORGANIZER IS CENTERING ENVIRONMENTAL JUSTICE, SO WE HAVE BEEN ENGAGING IN THE FEDERAL PROCESS TO LOOK AT REGIONAL RESOURCE MANAGEMENT PLANS AND TO SAY, HEY, OUR COMMUNITIES ARE IDENTIFIED IN THOSE PLANS AS ENVIRONMENTAL JUSTICE COMMUNITIES.

WHERE IS THE ENVIRONMENTAL JUSTICE ANALYSIS AND HOW ARE YOU GOING TO USE THOSE GUIDANCE, THE FINAL GUIDANCE, ENVIRONMENTAL JUSTICE, HOW ARE YOU USING THAT TO ENGAGE OUR COMMUNITIES?

WHEN AND WHERE ARE YOU GOING TO START TALKING ABOUT THE PUBLIC HEALTH IMPACTS OF OIL AND GAS DRILLING?

WE HAVE HAD A SCIENCE HEALTH IMPACT ANALYSIS DONE THROUGH THE CDC AND THERE IS SIGNIFICANT CULTURAL AND PUBLIC HEALTH IMPACTS HAPPENING OUT THERE.

WHAT WE ARE DOING IS THE CENTER OF THAT DISCUSSION.

ANYWHERE WE CAN, IT IS NOT TALK ABOUT MONEY, BUT TALK ABOUT CLEAN AIR AND CLEAN WATER AND PROTECTION.

HOW IS THE GOVERNMENT AND HOW ARE THE PEOPLE THAT ARE ACCOUNTABLE FOR THE COMMUNITIES, HOW ARE THEY ENGAGED.

SO THAT IS WHAT WE ARE DOING.

AND DEVELOPMENT, I MEAN, THAT IS SECONDARY BUT WE ARE TRYING TO BE THE MAIN ADVOCATES FOR THE MOST VULNERABLE OF PEOPLES WHICH IS THE VERY YOUNG AND THE VERY OLD.

>> Laura: THE STATE HAS, YOU KNOW, MOVED FORWARD WITH CERTAIN TYPES OF REGULATIONS AND CONVERSATIONS AND THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION HAS CERTAINLY TALKED ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF THAT AREA AND PROTECTING THAT AREA.

DO YOU SEE EITHER ON THE STATE LEVEL OR FEDERAL LEVEL, DO YOU SEE ANY ACTION TOWARDS IMPROVEMENTS YET?

OR AT ALL?

>> Atencio: TO BE TRUTHFUL, IT IS STATUS QUO STILL.

BIDEN SAYS, YOU KNOW, THEY PROMISE TO STOP OIL AND GAS DRILLING ON PUBLIC LANDS BUT THE FEDERAL COURT SYSTEM HAS RULED AGAINST THE GOVERNMENT.

WE ARE ASKING FOR SOME BASIC LEVEL FORBEARANCE OF SAYING, THIS IS PART OF EXECUTIVE ORDER, CAN YOU PLEASE STOP PERMITTING LEASES OUT THERE.

THE LOCAL FEDERAL AGENCY JUST KEEPS ALLOWING PERMITS TO GO THROUGH.

SO, THAT IS HARD TO SWALLOW BUT THE GOVERNMENT IS STARTING HONORING CHACO INITIATIVE.

AND IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE A NEW PROCESS AND IT IS SUPPOSED TO ENGAGE A LOT OF THE PERMIT STAKEHOLDERS.

AND WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO SAY -- AND FOCUS ENVIRONMENTAL JUSTICE IN THESE DISCUSSIONS BECAUSE CREATING MORE LINES ON A MAP AND SAYING THIS IS A SAFE ZONE, WHERE THERE ARE NO MORE PERMITS AND GO AHEAD AND DUMP IT ON THESE COMMUNITIES, THAT IS INADVERTENTLY CREATING ENVIRONMENTAL RACISM, ENVIRONMENTAL INJUSTICES, GO AHEAD AND DUMP IT ON THE NAVAJOS THAT LIVE AT MILE 11.

THROUGH THE LAST ADMINISTRATION, IT WAS -- THERE HAS BEEN A WHOLE INCREDIBLE REVOLUTION OF OIL AND GAS.

UNITED STATES, IT IS ALMOST LAUGHABLE THAT IT IS GOING TO BE THE WORLD'S LARGEST PRODUCER OF OIL.

AND NOW IT IS.

THE STATE IS IN LOVE WITH THE OIL MONEY.

SO, THERE IS THREATS EVERYWHERE AND PEOPLE WANT, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW - - STATE GOVERNMENT, TRIBAL GOVERNMENT, THEY ALL SEE THE MONEY AND THEY ALL WANT THAT PIECE OF THE PIE AND WE GET OVERRUN BY THAT.

>> Laura: WHAT DO YOU WISH THAT ALL NEW MEXICANS BETTER UNDERSTOOD ABOUT THE CHOICES THAT WE MAKE AND HOW THEY AFFECT COMMUNITIES?

>> Atencio: NUEVO MEXICANOS CAN NO LONGER FEIGN IGNORANCE WHEN OIL AND GAS IS CAUSING BIG DESTRUCTION TO THE LANDSCAPE, TO THE LAND, AIR, THE WATER, THE SACRED.

IT BEHOOVES NEW MEXICANS TO SAY, HEY, WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS.

THE POWER IS IN OUR LOCAL COMMUNITIES TO PROTECT THE WATER.

LEADING TO THE GREAT FOREST FIRES, THE HERITAGE OF THE PEOPLE.

IT IS NOT JUST THE HERITAGE BUT IT IS THE LIVING WHOLE LANDSCAPE.

YOU SEE IT IS VERY INCREDIBLE.

THAT IS NEW MEXICO.

AND THE PEOPLE HAVE TO TALK WITH THEIR LOCAL LEADERS AND ADVOCATES AND SAY WE NEED TO REALLY RETHINK HOW OUR WHOLE ECONOMY IS BASED.

AND THERE IS MOVES AND THERE IS POLITICAL INITIATIVES OUT THERE TO DO THAT.

SO, THE PEOPLE HAVE TO LOOK AT AND SEE WHAT THEY REALLY VALUE.

DO THEY VALUE THE LANDSCAPE?

DO THEY VALUE CULTURE?

DO THEY VALUE BEING -- VALUE HUMANS?

OR DO WE JUST VALUE MONEY?

AND I THINK THAT IS A BIG -- I THINK NEW MEXICANS REALLY NEED TO CONSIDER THAT QUESTION DEEPLY.

>> Laura: MARIO ATENCIO, THANK YOU FOR TALKING WITH ME TODAY.

>> Atencio: THANK YOU.

>>Gene Grant: SINCE THAT INTERVIEW FIRST AIRED, INTERIOR SECRETARY DEB HAALAND ANNOUNCED A 20- YEAR BAN ON NEW OIL AND GAS LEASES ON PUBLIC LANDS LOCATED IN CHACO PARK – OR THE SURROUNDING TEN- MILE AREA.

NOW – PROGRESS IN A KEY COURT CASE MANDATING MAJOR CHANGES IN HOW OUR STATE EDUCATES ITS MOST VULNERABLE STUDENTS.

THE MEXICAN AMERICAN LEGAL DEFENSE AND EDUCATIONAL FUND REPRESENTS LOUISE MARTINEZ, ONE OF THE LEAD PLAINTIFFS IN THE YAZZIE MARTINEZ LAWSUIT.

EARLIER THIS YEAR, NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS CORRESPONDENT RUSSELL CONTRERAS CAUGHT UP WITH MALDEF’S PRESIDENT AND GENERAL COUNSEL TO TALK ABOUT THE ONGOING STATE RESPONSE TO THAT HISTORIC COURT RULING.

>> Russell: THOMAS, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US AGAIN HERE ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS.

>> Saenz: HAPPY TO BE HERE.

>> Russell: IT HAS BEEN 11 YEARS SINCE THE FIGHT THAT WE NOW CALL MARTINEZ YAZZI STARTED.

FIRST OFF, GIVE US A QUICK REMINDER WHAT THE BATTLE IS ABOUT AND WHAT IS THE UPDATE?

>> Saenz: BASICALLY THE CASE IS ABOUT THE RIGHT TO BASIC AND EQUITABLE EDUCATION IN NEW MEXICO PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

SO, EVER SINCE THE UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT HALF A CENTURY AGO CONCLUDED THAT THE U.S. CONSTITUTION DOES NOT TREAT EDUCATION AS A FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT, WE HAVE BEEN LEFT WITH RAISING CHALLENGES LIKE THIS IN STATE COURT UNDER STATE CONSTITUTIONS.

SO, IN NEW MEXICO, THE MARTINEZ CASE IS THE CASE THAT ESTABLISHED THAT UNDER NEW MEXICO'S STATE CONSTITUTION, THERE IS A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO AN ADEQUATE AND EQUITABLE EDUCATION.

SO WHERE WE ARE TODAY IS AFTER A LENGTHY TRIAL IN WHICH THE STATE COURT DID CONCLUDE THAT THERE WAS A VIOLATION OF THAT RIGHT UNDER NEW MEXICO STATE CONSTITUTION IN THE CURRENT NEW MEXICO PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM.

SO THE QUESTION SINCE THEN HAS BEEN ABOUT THE ADEQUACY OF THE REMEDY FOR THAT VIOLATION.

SO, THE STATE LEGISLATURE HAS ACTED TO INCREASE SOME OF THE FUNDING FOR PUBLIC EDUCATION, TO MAKE OTHER REFORMS.

AND REALLY WHAT IS GOING ON NOW IS A LENGTHY DETERMINATION THROUGH EVIDENCE GATHERING, THROUGH TESTIMONY, OF WHETHER THE PROBLEM HAS BEEN SOLVED OR NOT OR WHETHER THERE REMAINS A VIOLATION OF THE NEW MEXICO CONSTITUTION.

AND THE CASE WAS BROUGHT, AS YOU KNOW, ON BEHALF OF STUDENTS WHO REALLY WERE NOT RECEIVING AN EQUITABLE EDUCATION IN NEW MEXICO PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

AND THAT INCLUDES THOSE WITH SPECIAL EDUCATION, INCLUDES LATINO STUDENTS, INCLUDES NATIVE STUDENTS.

IT INCLUDES MAKING SURE THAT ALL STUDENTS RECEIVE AN EQUITABLE OPPORTUNITY TO SUCCEED IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

>> Russell: NOW, AT THIS POINT, THIS LAWSUIT HAS GONE THROUGH A REPUBLICAN ADMINISTRATION AND A DEMOCRATIC ADMINISTRATION.

BOTH HAVE FOUGHT THESE LAWSUITS.

FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE, WHAT ARE THEY MISSING IN CONTINUING TO FIGHT THESE LAWSUITS, APPEAL AND KEEP THEM IN THE COURT SYSTEM?

>> Saenz: I THINK WHAT THEY ARE MISSING IS THE IMPORTANCE OF EDUCATION TO NEW MEXICO'S ECONOMY.

SO, A LOT OF TIMES, REGARDLESS OF PARTY, AND NOT JUST IN NEW MEXICO BUT IN OTHER STATES, THESE CASES RESULT IN DEBATES ABOUT MONEY.

HOW MUCH MONEY CAN BE EXPENDED ON EDUCATION AND IT IS VERY SHORTSIGHTED NOT TO UNDERSTAND THAT AN INVESTMENT TODAY IN INSURING AN EQUAL AND EQUITABLE AND ADEQUATE EDUCATION FOR ALL STUDENTS PAYS OFF IN THE FUTURE IN THE ECONOMY WITH MORE STUDENTS WHO GRADUATE WELL PREPARED TO DO THE JOBS OF THE 21ST CENTURY, WELL PREPARED TO INNOVATE, WELL PREPARED TO ADVANCE THE ECONOMIC PROGRESS OF THE ENTIRE STATE.

IT IS OFTEN A FAILURE TO SEE THE LONG-TERM ECONOMIC BENEFIT AND INSTEAD MAKING DECISIONS BASED ON SHORT-TERM BUDGETARY CONCERNS.

>> Russell: ON THAT NOTE, I HAVE TALKED TO DEMOCRATIC LAWMAKERS.

THEY TOLD ME, LOOK, I BELIEVE THE GOALS OF THESE LAWSUITS BUT WE CAN'T LET THE COURTS DECIDE SOMETHING THAT WE CAN'T AFFORD.

VERY SIMILAR ARGUMENT TO WHAT WE HAVE HEARD BEFORE.

IF THIS NEEDS TO BE DONE LEGISLATIVELY, WHAT IS YOUR REACTION TO THAT?

>> Saenz: WELL, UNFORTUNATELY THE LEGISLATURE HASN'T MET ITS CONSTITUTIONAL OBLIGATION UNDER NEW MEXICO'S CONSTITUTION AND IN THAT CIRCUMSTANCE THE COURTS HAVE TO INTERVENE.

THE COURTS ARE NOT DICTATING HOW MUCH MONEY IS TO BE SPENT OR EVEN SPECIFICALLY HOW IT IS TO BE SPENT.

BUT, BOTH OF THOSE PLAY SOME ROLE IN DETERMINING WHETHER THERE IS AN ONGOING CONSTITUTIONAL VIOLATION OR IT HAS BEEN REMEDIED, WHICH MEANS THE COURTS HAVE TO LOOK AT IT.

IS THERE AN ADEQUATE INVESTMENT FOR ALL STUDENTS IN THE STATE AND THEY HAVE TO LOOK AT, ARE THE RIGHT MECHANISMS TO MONITOR, DOCUMENT AND THEN REMEDY ANY CONTINUED DISPARITIES, DISCRIMINATIONS IN NEW MEXICO'S PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

SO, I WISH THAT THE HISTORICAL TRACK RECORD OF THE LEGISLATURE HERE AND IN OTHER STATES WAS SUCH THAT THEY HAD DEMONSTRATED THE ABILITY TO ADDRESS THE IMPERATIVE OF PROVIDING AN ADEQUATE AND EQUITABLE EDUCATION TO ALL STUDENTS.

BUT THAT IS NOT THE TRACK RECORD.

SO COURTS HAVE TO INTERVENE TO ENSURE THAT THE NEW MEXICO CONSTITUTION, THE VOICE OF THE PEOPLE WHO RATIFIED IT, IS REFLECTED IN AN ONGOING WAY IN THE EDUCATION SYSTEM.

>> Russell: ON THAT NOTE, WITH THE PASSAGE OF THE CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT NO.

1, FREEING UP MORE MONEY FOR PUBLIC EDUCATION ON TOP OF OTHER FUNDING ADVANCEMENTS AND A MASSIVE OIL AND GAS SURPLUS WE HAVE IN NEW MEXICO, IS THERE A LACK OF MONEY?

IS THAT THE ARGUMENT AGAINST RESPONDING TO THE NEEDS OF HIGHLIGHTING IN THIS LAWSUIT BECAUSE WE HAVE ALL THIS GOING ON.

ONE WOULD ASSUME THIS COULD BE EASILY SOLVED.

>> Saenz: WELL, WHAT YOU ARE POINTING OUT, IT IS NOT ALWAYS A MATTER OF TO SPEND THE MONEY THAT IS AVAILABLE.

IT IS A MATTER OF PRIORITY SETTING.

IS EDUCATION GOING TO BE THE TOP PRIORITY.

THESE RECENTLY ENACTED MEASURES ARE CERTAINLY AN INDICATION OF PROGRESS THAT THE VOTERS OF NEW MEXICO BELIEVE THAT EDUCATION SHOULD BE A, IF NOT THE, TOP PRIORITY.

BUT THE DEBATE ABOUT ECONOMIC CONSTRAINTS IS ALWAYS ABOUT WHERE THE MONEY THAT IS AVAILABLE SHOULD BE ALLOCATED.

SHOULD IT BE ALLOCATED TO SCHOOLS OR SHOULD IT BE ALLOCATED ELSEWHERE IN TERMS OF THE MANY GOVERNMENT FUNCTIONS.

SO, AGAIN, THESE MEASURES ARE AN IMPORTANT INDICATION THAT THE PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT EDUCATION SHOULD BE THE PRIORITY INCLUDING ALLOCATING ADDITIONAL RESOURCES TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM OF PROVIDING AN EQUAL AND ADEQUATE EDUCATION FOR ALL STUDENTS.

>> Russell: CHICANO PIONEER AND SCHOLAR GEORGE I SANCHEZ HERE IN NEW MEXICO, WROTE ABOUT INEQUALITY IN THE STATE IN 1940 WITH HIS BOOK "THE FORGOTTEN PEOPLE."

IT APPEARS SOME OF THE COMPLAINTS IN THESE LAWSUITS ARE GOING BACK TO HIS CRITIQUE ALMOST A CENTURY AGO.

WHY IS IT THAT NEW MEXICO, AFTER ALL THESE YEARS, ALL THESE DECADES, CANNOT WRAP ITS HEAD AROUND EQUALITY AND EQUITY FOR MEXICAN AMERICAN AND NATIVE AMERICAN STUDENTS IN THE STATE?

>> Saenz: WELL, I THINK WE HAVE THE LONG-TERM LEGACY OF DISCRIMINATION AGAINST THOSE TWO GROUPS AND OTHERS THAT WAS SO BUILT INTO THE SYSTEM 100 YEARS AGO, BUILT INTO THE SYSTEM EVER SINCE, WHEN SOMETHING IS SYSTEMIC, IT IS VERY HARD TO ROOT IT OUT.

WHAT WE HAVE IN THIS CIRCUMSTANCE IS A FAILURE OF SOME OF THE MAIN MECHANISMS OF ACCOUNTABILITY TO TAKE PART.

I PLACE A LOT OF THE BLAME AND NOT JUST IN NEW MEXICO, NATIONWIDE, ON THE DECISION WHICH WILL BE 50 YEARS OLD THIS YEAR, BY THE UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT OUT OF THE NEIGHBORING STATE OF TEXAS, WHEN THE JUSTICES, BY A NARROW MAJORITY, CONCLUDED THAT EDUCATION IS NOT A FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT UNDER OUR FEDERAL CONSTITUTION.

WHEN THEY REACHED THAT DECISION, IT ESSENTIALLY MEANT THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WOULD NOT PLAY A SIGNIFICANT ROLE IN ENSURING EQUAL OPPORTUNITY IN EDUCATION AS IT DOES IN OTHER ARENAS.

AND IRONICALLY AS IT HAD IN THE FOUNDATIONAL CIVIL RIGHTS CASE OF BROWN VERSUS BOARD OF EDUCATION WHICH WAS ABOUT EDUCATIONAL EQUITY AND YET IN 1973 THEY WITHDREW FROM PLAYING A MAJOR ROLE.

THAT, THEN, MADE IT POSSIBLE FOR THOSE SYSTEMIC DEEPLY ROOTED PROBLEMS TO CONTINUE AND BE PERPETUATED THROUGH DECADE AND DECADE UP TO TODAY.

SO, THIS AGAIN IS NOT A PROBLEM SOLELY IN NEW MEXICO.

IT IS REALLY A PROBLEM WITH PUBLIC EDUCATION ACROSS THE COUNTRY BECAUSE WE HAVE THESE DEEPLY ROOTED SYSTEMIC INEQUITIES AND THEN WE HAVE NOT ALLOCATED THE RIGHT RESOURCES, PLAYERS, MECHANISMS TO ENSURE THAT THAT SYSTEMIC PROBLEM CAN BE SOLVED.

>>The way that many people historically in our nation have looked at, let’s say, teen mothers in general, that it’s their own fault for becoming pregnant or having a child as if they were pursuing that, it really takes out that consideration and understanding of – there are limited opportunities sometimes for people, that not everyone has the same opportunity because of their launch in life.

Then you’ll have a better understanding of their health outcomes, their behaviors and practices.

>> Gene Grant: IT’S BEEN DRY IN THE SANDIA MOUNTAINS — BUT THEY GOT PLENTY OF RAIN AND SNOW EARLIER THIS YEAR.

THAT SAID, THE FORESTS HAVE LONG BEEN VULNERABLE TO DROUGHT AND INSECT OUTBREAKS.

THAT’S IN PART BECAUSE THE FORESTS HAVE BECOME TOO CROWDED.

AS WE LEARNED IN A PREVIOUS OUR LAND SEGMENT, FORESTS AREN’T SUPPOSED TO BE AS DENSE AS THEY’VE BECOME OVER THE LAST CENTURY.

AND ALL THOSE PLACES THAT ARE COVERED WITH DEAD AND DRIED OUT TREES PRESENT A HUGE FIRE DANGER FOR THE MOUNTAINS, AND EVERYONE WHO RELIES ON THEM.

>> Laura: IF YOU KNOW ALBUQUERQUE, YOU KNOW THE SANDIAS.

THEY RISE ABOVE THE EAST SIDE OF THE CITY, GRANITE MOUNTAINS TOPPED WITH LIMESTONE THAT IGNITE TO PINK EVERY SUNSET.

THE SANDIAS HOLD WILDERNESS, SPRINGS, RECREATION TRAILS, WILDLIFE.

BUT THE FORESTS HERE ARE INCREASINGLY VULNERABLE TO DROUGHT, INSECT OUTBREAKS AND FIRE.

IN A WORLD THAT IS WARMING, WARMING ALL THE TIME, THE SANDIAS ARE DRYING AND THEY ARE TELLING US TO PAY ATTENTION.

>> Johnson: ON THE EAST SIDE OF THE SANDIAS AND IN CIBOLA NATIONAL FOREST AND BASICALLY THE SOUTHWEST IN GENERAL, WE HAVE AREAS OF FOREST THAT ACTUALLY RESEMBLE HISTORIC CONDITIONS BUT ON A WHOLE, WE HAVE DENSITY LEVELS OF TREES THAT WE JUST HAVEN'T SEEN AND SO WITH THAT DENSITY LEVEL, THE FOREST IS REALLY IN AN UNHEALTHY SPOT.

>> Laura: THESE FORESTS LOOKED DIFFERENT 150 YEARS AGO.

BEFORE WIDESPREAD GRAZING, BEFORE A CENTURY OF FIRE SUPPRESSION BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND BEFORE GREEN HOUSE GAS EMISSIONS FIRED UP OUR PLANET'S ATMOSPHERE.

>> Johnson: IF YOU GO BACK ALMOST ONLY 150 YEARS, WHAT YOU WOULD HAVE SEEN WAS VARIABLE TREES AND VARYING DENSITY SO YOU WOULD GET INTO SOME AREAS THAT WERE REALLY PARK LIKE, BIG OPEN GROWN TREES WITH SOME UNDERBRUSH AND YOUNGER TREES GOING IN AND YOU COULD GO JUST OVER THE NEXT RIDGE AND IT COULD BE A REALLY THICK, DENSE FOREST OF PONDEROSA PINE.

IT WAS MORE VARYING 150 YEARS AGO COMPARED TO WHERE IT IS NOW WHERE WE ARE JUST SEEING REALLY DENSE FOREST STANDS ACROSS THE LANDSCAPE.

>> Laura: JOHNSON SAYS TO THINK OF THE FOREST LIKE A PUNCH BOWL FULL OF STRAWS.

IN THE PAST THERE WERE FEWER TREES, FEWER STRAWS SUCKING UP WATER.

EACH TREE GOT TO TAKE A BIG DRINK.

THEY COULD STRETCH AND GO STRONG.

IN A DENSE FOREST, THERE ARE MORE STRAWS.

EACH TREE GETS LESS WATER AND THERE IS LESS RESILIENCE AND NOW, OF COURSE, THERE IS ANOTHER PROBLEM, LESS WATER IN THE BOWL.

>> Martin: THINGS ARE GETTING HOTTER AND DRYER.

YOU KNOW, THE SNOW PACK IS MUCH MORE VARIABLE.

IT IS NOT AS RELIABLE YEAR TO YEAR.

YOU KNOW, WE HAVE BEEN IN DROUGHT CONDITIONS.

YOU KNOW, THESE TYPES OF CONDITIONS REALLY STRESS OUT TREES AND THAT MAKES THEM, OF COURSE, MORE SUSCEPTIBLE TO INSECTS, DISEASES AND WE HAVE SEEN A LOT OF THAT HERE IN THE LAST FIVE, 10 YEARS ON THE EAST SIDE OF THE SANDIA MOUNTAINS.

>> Laura: IN THE LAST DECADE, INSECTS LIKE THE DOUGLAS FIR MOTH AND THE FIR ENGRAVER HAVE BOOMED IN THE SANDIAS.

AND THEIR SIGNS ARE EVERYWHERE.

>> Martin: THEY HAVE CAUSED A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF MORTALITY.

THERE IS THAT ELEVATIONAL BAND OF ABOUT 1 TO 2,000 FEET WHERE WE HAVE SEEN ALL THAT DAMAGE AND IT HAS PROBABLY COST ABOUT 50% MORTALITY OF THE TREES THERE.

AS YOU ARE DRIVING UP SANDIA CREST HIGHWAY, YOU LOOK AROUND AND YOU SEE TREES THAT ARE EITHER TURNING BROWN OR ARE DEAD AND HAVE LOST NEEDLES ALREADY.

THAT IS ALMOST ENTIRELY THE RESULT OF THE DOUGLAS FIR TUSSOCK MOTH AND THE FIR ENGRAVER WORKING HAND IN HAND, TAG TEAMING, IF YOU WILL.

COMPOUND THAT WITH DROUGHT CONDITIONS AND IT IS JUST REALLY NOT A VERY GOOD COMBINATION.

>> Laura: THAT COMBINATION WE KNOW IS EXPLOSIVE FOR FORESTS.

>> Martin: IF THERE WERE A FIRE TO OCCUR ON THE EAST SIDE OF THE SANDIAS, I WOULD EXPECT WE COULD SEE SOME PRETTY SEVERE FIRE CONDITIONS, SIMILAR TO FIRES THAT HAVE HAPPENED TO THE SOUTH OF US IN THE MANZANO MOUNTAINS ALSO ON THE CIBOLA NATIONAL FOREST.

MOST RECENTLY THE DOG HEAD FIRE IN 2016.

WE HAD THE TRIGO, BIG SPRINGS AND OJO PEAK FIRES.

AND THOSE TEND TO START NEAR THE CREST.

THEY ARE WIND DRIVEN AND THEY WORK THEIR WAY DOWNHILL AT REAL RAPID PACES AND DID A LOT OF DAMAGE.

I GUESS YOU COULD EXPECT KIND OF THE SAME THING HERE.

IN WORST CASE SCENARIOS, THERE MAY NOT BE A FOREST HERE DUE TO THE UNHEALTHY NATURE OF IT RIGHT NOW.

SO WITH A FIRE WE COULD LOSE THIS ENTIRE MOUNTAIN.

IF CONDITIONS ARE CONDUCIVE AND PERFECT TO CARRY FIRE, WE COULD LOSE THIS ENTIRE MOUNTAIN IN A MATTER OF HOURS TO DAYS.

HOWEVER, IF WE CONTINUE TO LOOK FOR FUNDING AND OPPORTUNITIES TO ACTIVELY MANAGE THE FUEL CONDITIONS ON THIS MOUNTAIN, IN 20 YEARS, THE FOREST, THERE IS A GOOD CHANCE IT WILL STILL BE HERE.

WE MAY HAVE SMALL PATCHES THAT MAY HAVE BURNED AND AREAS THAT WE DID PRESCRIBED FIRES IN, BUT IF WE ACTIVELY GO IN AND REMOVE TREES AND THIN THE FOREST AND IT MORE RESILIENT, IN 20 YEARS TO 100 YEARS, THIS FOREST COULD BE AS HEALTHY AS EVER.

>> Laura: IN TODAY'S WARMER WORLD, THE CHOICES WE MAKE, THE SIGNS WE PAY ATTENTION TO, THEY MATTER MORE THAN EVER.

FOR OUR LAND AND NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS, I AM LAURA PASKUS.

>> Gene Grant: A PLAN IS IN PLACE TO EXPAND THE PRODUCTION OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS COMPONENTS AT LOS ALAMOS NATIONAL LABORATORY.

THOSE PLANS CENTER AROUND PLUTIONIUM PITS, THE CORE WITHIN NUCLEAR WEAPONS.

THE LAB ITSELF ESTIMATES THOUSANDS OF JOBS WILL BE NEEDED TO EXPAND THE PROJECT.

BUT A NON- PROFIT MONITORING THE LAB SAYS IT WILL ALSO COST BILLIONS OF DOLLARS, INCREASE ELECTRICITY DEMANDS, AND PUT WORKERS AND OTHERS AT RISK.

THE LOS ALAMOS STUDY GROUP HAS BEEN TRACKING PROJECTS AT THE NATIONAL LABORATORY FOR MORE THAN THIRTY YEARS.

OUR LAND SENIOR PRODUCER LAURA PASKUS TALKED WITH EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR GREG MELLO TO TALK ABOUT THE EXPANSION >> Laura: GREG MELLO, WELCOME.

>> Greg: THANK YOU, LAURA.

>> Laura: SO WHAT ARE SOME OF THE CHANGES BEING PROPOSED BY LOS ALAMOS NATIONAL LAB FOR ITS OPERATIONS INTO THE FUTURE?

>> Greg: LOS ALAMOS IS CURRENTLY ENGAGED IN THE LARGEST EXPANSION SINCE THE 1950s, SINCE THE EARLY '50s, AND THEY ARE SPECIFICALLY ADDING A FACTORY TO THEIR MISSION MIX.

THIS HAS NOT HAPPENED REALLY SINCE THE 1940s.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE ABOUT 4000 PEOPLE WORKING ON MANUFACTURING THE PLUTONIUM CORES OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS.

THAT'S BY FAR THEIR LARGEST GROWTH AREA, AND THIS IS GREATLY INCREASING THE SIZE OF THE LABORATORY OVERALL.

>> Laura: SO EARLIER THIS YEAR IN A STORY AT SEARCHLIGHT NEW MEXICO, ANNABELLA FARMER REPORTED THAT THE LAB FACED A WITHERING REPORT BY THE GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILITY OFFICE AND HAS ALREADY SPENT BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN MORE THAN 20 YEARS TRYING AND FAILING TO REESTABLISH PIT PRODUCTION, WHICH ARE THESE PLUTONIUM PITS YOU MENTIONED.

>> Greg: YES.

>> Laura: SO WE'VE SPENT BILLIONS OF DOLLARS ALREADY.

IF THINGS WENT FORWARD, WHAT WOULD THIS NEW FACILITY, THESE NEW OPERATIONS COST?

>> Greg: THANK YOU FOR PHRASING IT THAT WAY, BECAUSE IT'S STRUGGLING AND MAY NOT GO FORWARD.

WE DON'T KNOW WHEN THE OFF- RAMPS WILL APPEAR.

SO THERE WILL BE ABOUT $14 BILLION SPENT ON FACILITIES AND THE PROGRAMS TO OPERATE, HIRE, TRAIN THESE FACILITIES BY 2028, IF YOU START COUNTING IN FISCAL '19 WHEN IT REALLY STARTED.

THERE'S ANOTHER REPORT FROM LOS ALAMOS WHICH WE HAVE, BUT WE DON'T HAVE IT UNREDACTED, WHICH ALLEGEDLY SAYS THAT IT WILL BE $18 BILLION IN THE CURRENT DECADE.

>> Laura: SO I TEND TO THINK OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS AS SOMETHING FROM THE PAST, A LEGACY, AND A FRIGHTENING LEGACY, A TROUBLING LEGACY.

YOU'RE TALKING TO PEOPLE ALL THE TIME; SCIENTISTS, PEOPLE IN WASHINGTON, D.C., OFFICIALS, CONGRESS PEOPLE.

WHAT IS THE STATED NEED FOR THE UNITED STATES TO CONTINUE MAINTAINING AND MANUFACTURING NUCLEAR WEAPONS?

>> Greg: THE STATED NEED IS THAT WE NEED TO DETER RUSSIA, AND NOW ALSO CHINA, AND NOW ALSO NORTH KOREA AND OTHERS.

SO WE WON'T BE DECREASING THE NUMBER OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS ANY TIME SOON, WHERE WE JUST HEARD THIS AGAIN.

I'M SORRY TO HAVE TO SAY THAT, BUT IT'S VERY AUTHORITATIVE AT THIS POINT.

EVEN THOUGH THE PRESIDENT HAS NOT RELEASED THE NUCLEAR POSTURE REVIEW, I THINK YOU CAN TELL FROM THE WAR-LIKE ATMOSPHERE IN WASHINGTON THAT THAT WOULDN'T BE POPULAR RIGHT NOW.

NUCLEAR WEAPONS ARE VERY ROBUST OBJECTS, BUT THEY DO -- PARTS OF THEM DO DETERIORATE, SO THEY HAVE TO BE BROUGHT IN FOR OVERALL.

AND WHEN THAT HAPPENS, IT'S A VERY EXPENSIVE PROCESS.

COMPONENTS CAN BE CHANGED OUT TO MORE MODERN ONES, AND THE MODERN ONES ALSO CAN ADD CAPABILITIES.

SO ACCURACY IMPROVEMENTS CAN BE INSTALLED AT THE TIME YOU DO MAINTENANCE.

SO YOU END UP WITH KIND OF A SOUPED-UP VERSION OF WHAT YOU HAD BEFORE.

IT'S NOT JUST A LIKE-FOR- LIKE REPLACEMENT OF AN "O" RING OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

IF YOU'RE GOING TO TAKE THE WHOLE THING APART, YOU'RE GOING TO PUT IN AN UPGRADE FROM THE EQUIVALENT OF YOUR OLD ANALOG PHONE, AND YOU'RE GOING TO PUT AN iPHONE 14 OR SOMETHING IN IT.

AND UNFORTUNATELY -- WE THINK UNFORTUNATELY -- YOU CAN REALLY IMPROVE THE ACCURACY OF A WARHEAD, WHICH ENABLES A WIDER SET OF TARGETS, IT FEEDS THE NUCLEAR WAR FIGHTING MENTALITY, AND IT COSTS A TON OF MONEY.

IT KEEPS THE WEAPONS LABORATORIES BUSY WITH UPDATING DESIGNS AND NEW DESIGNS.

AND WHAT IS NOT STATED, BUT IS VERY MUCH A REALITY, IS THAT IT KEEPS PEOPLE EMPLOYED AND TRAINED AND PASSES ON KNOWLEDGE TO A NEW GENERATION OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS WORKERS.

SO THIS IS PROBABLY THE BIGGEST UNSTATED REASON, BESIDES THE OBVIOUS CONTRACTOR DOLLARS AND PORK BARREL DOLLARS.

>> Laura: SO THE WAR IN UKRAINE HAS BEEN ONGOING SINCE FEBRUARY.

HOW HAS THAT WAR AND THE U.S. INTEREST IN THAT WAR CHANGED THE CONVERSATION AROUND NUCLEAR WEAPONS IN THE UNITED STATES?

>> Greg: I WOULD SAY THAT IT HAS MADE IT MORE DIFFICULT TO GET ANY ACCOUNTABILITY IN THE NUCLEAR WEAPONS COMPLEX.

YOU KNOW, IT'S A UNIQUE PART OF GOVERNMENT.

THE ENORMOUS POWER, THE EXISTENTIAL RISK OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS HAS BEEN THE EXCUSE FOR CARVE-OUTS FROM ENVIRONMENTAL LAWS, FROM FISCAL ACCOUNTABILITY, FROM MANY THINGS, AND SO IT'S ALMOST -- AT THE VERY BEGINNING, THE FIRST GENERAL COUNSEL OF THE AEC SAID IT WAS A SEPARATE SOVEREIGNTY.

THE WAR IN UKRAINE HAS SHUT DOWN CONVERSATIONS ABOUT ACCOUNTABILITY IN THE NUCLEAR WEAPONS COMPLEX.

IT'S ALMOST NONEXISTENT NOW.

CONGRESS IS GIVING OUT BLANK CHECKS.

IN FACT, IN SOME CASES THEY'RE INCREASING THE AMOUNT OF MONEY OVER WHAT THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION REQUESTED, BECAUSE INFLATION IS RAGING AND IT AFFECTS NNSA, AS WELL AS EVERYBODY, YOU AND ME.

SO THE UKRAINE WAR MAKES IT VERY DIFFICULT TO TALK ABOUT NUCLEAR DISARMAMENT OR TO BE ANY KIND OF DOVE.

>> Laura: INTERESTING.

SO FOR 80 YEARS NOW, THE LAB HAS WORKED ON NUCLEAR WEAPONS, AND WE HAVE CONVERSATIONS IN THE STATE ABOUT JOBS, THE ECONOMY, SOMETIMES WE TALK ABOUT INEQUALITY BETWEEN NORTHERN NEW MEXICO COMMUNITIES AND THE LAB, WE TALK SOMETIMES ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES AND ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACTS, BUT I FEEL AS THOUGH IN THE STATE WE VERY RARELY TALK ABOUT THE MORALITY OF HAVING A SIGNIFICANT PART OF THE ECONOMY FOCUSED ON WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION, ON NUCLEAR WEAPONS.

WHY IS THAT?

WHY DON'T WE TALK ABOUT THIS?

>> Greg: BOY, THAT'S A REALLY GOOD QUESTION.

AND WE SHOULD.

WE ARE AT THE BOTTOM IN OUR CARE OF OUR CHILDREN, IN EDUCATION, AND THERE IS A KIND OF PARALYSIS WHICH HAS AFFECTED OUR PUBLIC MORALITY WITH RESPECT TO OUR SOCIAL LIFE HERE IN THE STATE, AND NUCLEAR WEAPONS ARE A PART OF THAT PARALYSIS.

WE HAVE MADE SOME KIND OF PACT THAT WE WILL BE A LESSER STATE.

WE HAVE A WELFARE MENTALITY WITH RESPECT TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

WE WILL BURN OUR CONSCIOUSES WITH A HOT IRON, AS PAUL PUT IT IN THE EPISTLES.

BUT THAT AFFECTS HOW WE THINK ABOUT OUR SOCIAL PROBLEMS, TOO.

OUR IMAGINATIONS OF OUR FUTURE AND THE POLITICAL CONVERSATIONS WE HAVE ARE ABRIDGED.

SIMONE WEIL, WRITING IN THE SECOND WORLD WAR, SAID: "ONLY THOSE WHO KNOW THE EMPIRE OF MIGHT AND KNOW HOW NOT TO RESPECT IT ARE CAPABLE OF LOVE AND JUSTICE," IN HER COMMENTS ABOUT THE ILIAD.

AND THAT'S OUR PROBLEM HERE.

WE DON'T KNOW HOW NOT TO RESPECT THE VIOLENCE OF WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION, THE DEATH-ORIENTED SOLUTION TO HUMAN RELATIONS.

AND IT HARMS OUR ABILITY TO THROW OURSELVES WHOLEHEARTEDLY INTO THE SOCIAL INNOVATION AND THE ENVIRONMENTAL INNOVATION THAT WE REALLY NEED.

>> Gene Grant: A REPORT SPOTLIGHTED SOME OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT’S SHORTCOMINGS WHEN IT COMES TO INDIGENOUS HEALTHCARE – SPECIFICALLY FOR MOTHERS AND NEWBORNS.

A HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES’ ADVISORY COMMITTEE SPENT 24 MONTHS REVIEWING DATA AND LITERATURE – HERE'S WHAT IT FOUND.

MATERNAL MORTALITY AMONG AMERICAN INDIANS AND ALASKA NATIVES RANGES FROM 2 TO 4- AND-A-HALF TIMES THE RATE FOR NON- HISPANIC WHITE WOMEN.

IN SOME REGIONS, THE DISPARITY IS EVEN MORE STRIKING — INDIGENOUS MOTHERS MORTALITY RATE IS *SEVEN TIMES* HIGHER.

AND – THE DATA SHOWED AN ESTIMATED 93 PERCENT OF THOSE DEATHS AMONG INDIGENOUS PEOPLE ARE PREVENTABLE.

WITH INDIGENOUS PEOPLE MAKING UP MORE THAN 10- PERCENT OF NEW MEXICO'S POPULATION – THOSE STATISTICS HIT OUR STATE HARDER THAN MOST.

TO UNDERSTAND WHAT'S REQUIRED TO TURN THOSE NUMBERS AROUND, NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS CORRESPONDENT ANTONIA GONZALES SPOKE WITH THE CHAIR OF THE ADVISORY COMMITTEE, AND AN INDIGENOUS NURSE- MIDWIFE WHO HELPED PUT THE REPORT TOGETHER.

>> Antonia: WELCOME DR. EDWARD EHLINGER, CHAIR OF THE ADVISORY COMMITTEE ON INFANT AND MATERNAL MORTALITY AND CO- AUTHOR OF THE REPORT.

WE ARE ALSO JOINED BY DR. JANELLE PALACIOS, A NURSE AND MIDWIFE, CHAIR OF THE ADVISORY COMMITTEE'S EQUITY GROUP AND SHE IS SALISH AND KOOTENAI.

THANK YOU BOTH FOR JOINING ME.

THIS REPORT IS EXTENSIVE.

ONE THING THAT STANDS OUT IS THE AMOUNT OF HISTORICAL CONTEXT USED TO FRAME THE FINDING.

DR. EHLINGER, WHY IS IT IMPORTANT TO HAVE A FIRM UNDERSTANDING OF THE CENTURIES OF HARDSHIPS FACING INDIGENOUS PEOPLE BEFORE CONSIDERING THIS SPECIFIC PROBLEM?

>> Ehlinger: WE KNOW THAT BELONGING IS AN IMPORTANT INDICATOR OF HEALTH, BEING PART OF A COMMUNITY, BEING WELCOMED IN A COMMUNITY, BEING APPRECIATED IN THE COMMUNITY.

AND WE KNOW THAT FOR SO LONG AMERICAN INDIANS AND ALASKA NATIVES AND INDIGENOUS FOLKS IN THIS COUNTRY HAVE NOT FELT INCLUDED.

IN FACT, THEY FELT EXCLUDED AND THAT HAS IMPACTED THE POLICIES THAT WE HAVE CREATED IN OUR SOCIETY AND THEIR SENSE OF WHETHER THEY EVEN BELONG IN THIS COUNTRY, EVEN THOUGH THIS WAS THEIR COUNTRY TO START WITH.

AND IT HAS A HUGE IMPACT ON THEIR HEALTH SO IT DETERMINES ALL THE FEDERAL POLICIES, LOCAL POLICIES AND IMPACTS HEALTH DIRECTLY.

THAT IS WHY WE FOCUSED ON THAT CONTEXT BECAUSE THAT IS PROBABLY THE MOST IMPORTANT THING THAT HAS AFFECTED AMERICAN INDIAN ALASKA NATIVE HEALTH OVER THE LAST TWO OR 300 YEARS IN THIS COUNTRY.

>> Antonia: DR.PALACIOS, ANYTHING TO ADD TO THAT ABOUT WHY IT IS SO IMPORTANT TO TALK ABOUT THE HISTORICAL CONTEXT BEFORE ADDRESSING CERTAIN HEALTH ISSUES ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO THIS ONE?

>> Palacios: OF COURSE.

WE ARE A COUNTRY THAT HAS A LOT OF STEREOTYPES AND SO FOR THE LONGEST TIME, SOMEONE'S PERSONAL OUTCOMES OR HEALTH OUTCOMES, FOR EXAMPLE, SOMEONE WHO WENT INTO PRETERM LABOR OR SOMEONE WHO MAY HAVE HAD EXTRA BLEEDING AFTER DELIVERY OR SOMEONE'S USE OF SUBSTANCES OR MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES WERE ALL PUT ON THEIR OWN SHOULDERS.

IT WAS THEIR OWN BURDEN.

IT WAS THEIR OWN FAULT.

AND IF WE DON'T HAVE THE HISTORICAL PIECE TO THAT CONTEXT TO HELP US UNDERSTAND THAT SYSTEMATIC POLICIES ACTUALLY TARGETED INDIGENOUS PEOPLES OF THIS NATION TO DISENFRANCHISE THEM FROM THEIR FAMILIES, TO BREAK DOWN THE STRONG CULTURAL PRACTICES AND BELIEFS, TO REPLACE THEM WITH OTHER ONES THAT MADE THEM FEEL LESS THAN, THEN WE HAVE A DIFFICULT TIME UNDERSTANDING WHY THERE ARE SUCH ISSUES LIKE MENTAL HEALTH OR SELF MEDICATION THROUGH SUBSTANCES OR WHY PEOPLE EXPERIENCE HIGHER RATES OF SYSTEMIC RACISM IN THE FORM OF HIGHER RATES OF INCARCERATION OR IMPRISONMENT.

SO IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT FOR EVERYONE IN OUR NATION TO REALLY UNDERSTAND OUR NATION'S HISTORY.

I KNOW WHEN I WENT TO SCHOOL I DID NOT KNOW VERY MUCH ABOUT THE AMERICAN HISTORY JUST A FEW PAGES IN THE BOOK AND WE LEARNED ABOUT SACAJAWEA AND POCAHONTAS AND OUR HISTORY IS SO MUCH MORE THAN THOSE TWO FIGURES.

>> Antonia: MUCH OF THE REPORT IS FRAMED AROUND EQUITY AND THAT INCLUDES DATA COLLECTION AND WE KNOW NOT JUST THIS ISSUE BUT MANY ISSUES ACROSS INDIAN COUNTRY AND ALASKA NATIVES, THERE IS NOT A LOT OF DATA.

SO, DR. PALACIOS, HOW DID BLIND SPOTS IN THE DATA IMPACT YOUR ABILITY TO PROPERLY LOOK AT AND ANALYZE THIS ISSUE?

>> Palacios: YEAH.

GREAT QUESTION.

I LOVE THIS QUESTION BECAUSE WE TYPICALLY ARE AN ASTERISK NATION.

IF YOU LOOK AT STATE REPORTS OR NATIONAL DATA, THE AMERICAN INDIAN ALASKA NATIVE IS USUALLY AN ASTERISK.

THERE IS NOT SUFFICIENT NUMBERS.

WE AREN'T COUNTED, WE DON'T MATTER.

THERE IS A WHOLE ISSUE ABOUT HOW TO COUNT US, WHICH IS A WHOLE OTHER CONVERSATION.

BECAUSE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT DO WE COUNT THOSE THAT ARE ENROLLED ONLY?

DO WE COUNT THOSE THAT ARE JUST RECEIVING INDIAN HEALTH SERVICES?

DO WE COUNT THOSE THAT SELF IDENTIFY?

AND TO THAT POINT WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND PART OF OUR NATION'S HISTORY AND POLICY WAS SYSTEMATICALLY TO TERMINATE NATIVE PEOPLE AS A PEOPLE, SO THAT THEY WOULD NO LONGER HAVE CLAIMS TO THIS LAND AND RESOURCES.

THIS WAS POINTED OUT IN CHIEF JOHN MARSHALL OF THE SUPREME COURT WHERE HE TALKED ABOUT THAT THE FUTURE THAT HE SAW WAS THAT WE WOULD BE ONE GROUP OF PEOPLE.

THERE WOULD NO LONGER BE NATIVE TRIBES THAT WE ALL BE -- THERE WOULD BE NO NEED TO SETTLE DISPUTES AMONG NATIVE RESERVATIONS OR NATIVE PEOPLE.

AND AMERICAN INDIAN ALASKA NATIVE PEOPLE TEND TO BE A POPULATION THAT HAS INTER MARRIED AND MIXED WITH A LOT OF OTHERS.

SO THE FIRST STEP IS TRYING TO IDENTIFY BEST IDEAS OF HOW TO COUNT NATIVE PEOPLE SO THAT WE CAN GET TO THAT INFORMATION.

>> Antonia: DR. PALACIOS, THERE IS A LOT OF MISTRUST STILL IN TRIBAL COMMUNITIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

SO HOW IMPORTANT IS IT TO HAVE THESE MEETINGS AND HEAR FROM DIFFERENT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES TO START BUILDING THAT TRUST?

>> Palacios: RIGHT, SO THE FACT THAT THE COMMITTEE ACTUALLY HAD AN IN- PERSON MEETING ON TRIBAL LANDS WAS JUST DEMONSTRATING THAT YOUR COMMUNITY MATTERS, RIGHT, THAT WE ARE HERE.

AND THE HEALTH BUREAU, THEY MOVE MOUNTAINS IN ORDER TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN.

THE FIRST TIME IN 30 PLUS YEARS THAT A MEETING WAS OUTSIDE OF ROCKVILLE, MARYLAND.

SO THEY REALLY WORKED FOR A GOOD AMOUNT OF TIME, I THINK, CLOSE TO A YEAR TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN.

AND WHEN WE WERE IN THE COMMITTEE AND WE HAD PEOPLE TESTIFYING AND GIVE TESTIMONIAL OF LIKE THEIR EXPERIENCES, IN ADDITION TO THE DATA THEY WERE PRESENTING, WE HEARD THAT THEY RECOGNIZE THE IMPORTANCE OF HAVING SPACE TO SHARE THEIR STORIES.

SO WE HAVE COMMUNITIES THAT ARE USED TO, ACCUSTOMED TO, UNFORTUNATELY, A STYLE OF PRESENCE THAT IS JUST VERY SHORT TERM A SHORT SPAN OF TIME.

AND IT TAKES THAT CONTINUED ENGAGEMENT, THAT CONTINUED PRESENCE AND PARTICIPATION IN THE COMMUNITY FOR COMMUNITIES TO FEEL SAFE THAT THEY CAN TRUST YOU.

SO, THIS IS A FIRST STEP.

IT IS A GREAT FIRST STEP BUT THEN ACTION NEEDS TO FOLLOW THIS, YOU KNOW, NOT JUST LISTENING TO VOICES, BUT ACTION, BECAUSE OUR COMMUNITIES KNOW WHAT IS NEEDED.

>> Ehlinger: LET ME ADD TO THAT.

THE FACT THAT JANELLE WAS ON THE COMMITTEE AS AN INDIGENOUS PERSON, THAT ALLOWED PEOPLE TO FEEL A LITTLE SAFER, AND ALSO BY THE FACT THAT DEB HAALAND IS A FEDERAL APPOINTEE FROM THE AMERICAN INDIAN ALASKA NATIVE COMMUNITY AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL.

THEY ARE STARTING TO SAY, MAYBE WE ARE BEING HEARD, MAYBE WE CAN PUT A TOE IN THE WATER AND BE A LITTLE BIT MORE TRUSTING, ALWAYS CAUTIOUS, BUT IT IS A GRADUAL PROCESS.

IT IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE OVER NIGHT BUT JUST HAVING REPRESENTATION, THAT IS WHY ONE OF THE THINGS THE WHOLE AREA OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS ARE, WE NEED MORE INDIGENOUS PEOPLE ON COMMITTEES, IN TASKFORCES, ON WORKFORCES, IN THE WORKFORCE IN GENERAL.

SO THAT THEY FEEL INCLUDED, THEY GET A SENSE OF BELONGING AND FEEL PART OF THE COMMUNITY AND THAT HELPS BUILD THAT TRUST WE ARE LOOKING FOR.

>> Antonia: DR. PALACIOS, YOU ALSO HAD A PERSONAL SIDE TO THIS REPORT.

YOU TALKED ABOUT YOUR OWN CHILDHOOD EXPERIENCES AND PATTERNS.

HOW DOES THAT CYCLE OF ABUSE AND TRAUMA IMPACT HEALTH OUTCOMES FOR INDIGENOUS MOTHERS AND INFANTS?

>> Palacios: SURE.

AT A YOUNG AGE, I EXPERIENCED GROWING UP AS THE FIRST BORN OF A TEEN MOTHER AND SHE HERSELF, MY MOTHER, WAS A CHILD OF A TEEN MOTHER.

SO WE HAVE GENERATIONS OF LIKE TEEN PARENTS IN OUR FAMILY.

WE ALSO LIVED ON A RESERVATION.

WE LIVED ON THE FLATHEAD INDIAN RESERVATION.

WE LIVED IN HUD HOUSING.

WE ATE COMMODITY FOOD.

I REMEMBER GOING ONCE A MONTH TO GET COMMODITY FOOD.

SO I REMEMBER POVERTY.

I ALSO REMEMBER RACISM.

BECAUSE MY RESERVATION HAS A HEAVILY NONNATIVE PEOPLE POPULATION THAT OWN LAND AND MOST OF THE TOWNS AND WE AGRICULTURAL SPACES.

SO, GROWING UP AT THE INTERSECTION OF POVERTY, OF RACISM, OF BEING NATIVE AMERICAN AND A WOMAN, AND HAVING THIS HISTORICAL PIECE OF GENERATIONS OF TEEN MOTHERS, AND EXPERIENCING FIRSTHAND VIOLENCE, ABUSE, JUST DIFFERENT THINGS THAT COME WITH THIS HISTORICAL TRAUMA, AS A TEENAGER I SAW MY FRIENDS ALSO EXPERIENCING THESE SIMILAR EFFECTS OF HISTORICAL TRAUMA.

AND AT A VERY YOUNG AGE, I REALIZED THAT I WANTED TO DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT AND I WANTED TO BECOME A MIDWIFE AND HELP PEOPLE AND HELP FAMILIES.

SO, AS I WAS TALKING EARLIER THAT THE WAY THAT MANY PEOPLE IN OUR NATION HISTORICALLY HAVE LOOKED AT, LET'S SAY, TEEN MOTHERS IN GENERAL, THAT IT IS THEIR OWN FAULT FOR BECOMING PREGNANT AND HAVING A CHILD, AS IF THEY WERE PURSUING THAT, IT REALLY TAKES OUT THAT CONSIDERATION AND UNDERSTANDING OF THERE ARE LIMITED OPPORTUNITIES SOMETIMES FOR PEOPLE, THAT NOT EVERYONE HAS THE SAME OPPORTUNITY BECAUSE OF THEIR LAUNCH IN LIFE.

THEN YOU'LL HAVE A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF THEIR HEALTH OUTCOMES AND THEIR BEHAVIORS AND PRACTICES.

AND I WAS ABLE TO BRING THIS ON TO A NATIONAL LEVEL WHICH I AM VERY HONORED TO HAVE BEEN ABLE TO DO THAT.

SO, IF WE ARE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND AS A NATION AND LOOK AT OUR OWN HISTORY, OUR NATION'S HISTORY, WE ARE ABLE TO BETTER HELP ALL FAMILIES IN OUR NATION TO BE MORE OF A COMMUNITY.

>> Antonia: SO, HOW DO WE TALK ABOUT THESE THINGS WITHOUT PROMOTING STEREOTYPES OR EXPRESSING STEREOTYPES?

>> Palacios: SOMETHING THAT DR. EHLINGER AND DR. PECK HAVE REALLY TRIED TO WORK OUT IS CHANGING THE NARRATIVE.

SO YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT HISTORICAL PIECE AND YOU HAVE TO LET PEOPLE SHARE THEIR EXPERIENCES AND THEN WITH AWARENESS OF PEOPLES EXPERIENCE S, THAT WE CAN REINTRODUCE NEW STORIES SO THAT WE CAN COMBAT THOSE STEREOTYPES.

THAT IS ONE WAY WE ARE TRYING TO REALLY BATTLE AGAINST THESE STEREOTYPES.

ANOTHER ONE IS THAT HARD DATA THAT A LOT OF SCIENTISTS AND POLICIES ARE MADE FROM.

SO WE HAVE NUMBERS BUT WE ALSO HAVE THE STORIES BEHIND THAT AND THE TWO COMBINED COULD BE VERY POWERFUL.

>> Antonia: AND DR. EHLINGER, ANYTHING TO ADD IN AND ALSO JUST NEXT STEPS NOW AFTER THE REPORT.

WHAT IS THE ACTION GOING TO LOOK LIKE?

>> Ehlinger: IN TERMS OF NEXT STEPS, I DON'T WANT TO LEAVE THIS CONVERSATION WITHOUT BRINGING UP THE WHOLE INADEQUACIES OF THE INDIAN HEALTH SERVICE THAT WE HEARD OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

YES, MEDICAL CARE IS NOT THE ONLY THING THAT IS REALLY IMPORTANT.

IT IS THE COMMUNITY AND LIVING CONDITIONS BUT WE CAN'T FORGET ABOUT THE CLINICAL CARE.

AND WE HEARD OVER AND OVER AGAIN IN THE STORIES WE HEARD THAT THE INDIAN HEALTH SERVICE, FOR A WHOLE MULTITUDE OF REASONS, IS NOT MEETING THE NEEDS OF THE AMERICAN INDIAN AND ALASKA NATIVE COMMUNITY.

SO WE REALLY NEED TO DIVE IN AND DOUBLE DOWN ON WHY IS THAT HAPPENING AND WHAT CAN CHANGE TO MAKE THE INDIAN HEALTH SERVICE OR SOME OTHER SYSTEM MEET THE CLINICAL NEEDS, THE MEDICAL CARE NEEDS OF THE AMERICAN INDIAN ALASKA NATIVE COMMUNITY.

THAT IS REALLY WHERE A LOT OF OUR STEPS NEED TO GO.

CHANGE THE NARRATIVE, COLLECT OUR -- CHANGE OUR DATA COLLECTION AND IMPROVE THE INDIAN HEALTH SERVICE, THAT WOULD REALLY BE THE TRIFECTA FOR ME.

>>Gene Grant: WE ALL WATCHED THE RIO GRANDE DRY IN ALBUQUERQUE LAST SUMMER -- SOMETHING WE’LL LIKELY SEE MORE OF IN THE COMING YEARS, AS THE REGION CONTINUES TO HEAT UP AND DRY OUT.

AND WHILE WE HATE TO SEE THAT HAPPEN, THERE’S NOTHING IN STATE LAW TO PREVENT THE RIO GRANDE FROM DRYING AGAIN – OR TO KEEP PEOPLE FROM USING EVERY LAST DROP OF WATER IN THE REST OF OUR STATE’S RIVERS.

OUR LAND SENIOR PRODUCER LAURA PASKUS WENT TO THE RIO GRANDE TO EXPLORE THAT ISSUE WITH AUDUBON SOUTHWEST’S PAUL TASHJIAN >> Laura: FOR DECADES, THE RIO GRANDE DOWNSTREAM OF ALBUQUERQUE HAS DRIED DURING IRRIGATION SEASON.

NOT A LOT OF PEOPLE PAY ATTENTION TO THAT.

BUT, THIS SUMMER IN JULY, THE DRYING MARCHED UPSTREAM INTO ALBUQUERQUE.

AND PEOPLE NOTICED.

WHAT MOST PEOPLE PROBABLY DON'T REALIZE IS RIVERS IN NEW MEXICO DON'T HAVE RIGHTS TO THEIR OWN WATERS SO THE WATER YOU SEE FLOWING PAST IT IS ALL MEANT FOR SOMEONE ELSE DOWNSTREAM.

AND SOMETIMES WHAT THAT MEANS IS THERE IS NOT ENOUGH WATER LEFT FOR THE RIVER ITSELF AND THE SPECIES THAT RELY UPON IT.

PAUL TASHJIAN IS DIRECTOR OF FRESH WATER CONSERVATION FOR AUDUBON SOUTHWEST.

KEEPING WATER IN RIVERS IS SOMETHING HE THINKS ABOUT A LOT.

>> Tashjian: IN NEW MEXICO LIKE MANY WESTERN STATES, THERE ARE NO INHERENT RIGHTS OR CLAIMS THAT RIVERS HAVE ON THEIR WATER.

WATER IN NEW MEXICO IS MANAGED ON WHAT IS CALLED THE PRIORITY ADMINISTRATION SYSTEM AND THIS IS LIKE MOST OTHER WESTERN STATES MANAGED ON A SIMILAR SYSTEM.

IT IS A SYSTEM OF EXTRACTION.

IT IS A WINNER-TAKE-ALL KIND OF SYSTEM AND HOW IT WORKS IS THAT PERMITS ARE ISSUED FOR WATER RIGHT USERS UNTIL THERE IS NO WATER LEFT.

>> Laura: IN NEW MEXICO WHEN DRY TIMES STRIKE, PEOPLE WITH THE OLDEST WATER RIGHTS, SENIOR WATER RIGHTS, GET WATER FIRST.

AND UNLESS PEOPLE DECIDE TO SHARE SHORTAGES, JUNIOR OR NEWER WATER RIGHTS CAN GET CUT.

THE OLDEST USERS, THE RIVERS THEMSELVES, THEIR ECOSYSTEMS, THEIR WILDLIFE, THEY CAN BE LEFT WITH NOTHING.

>> Tashjian: THESE WATER RIGHT ISSUES WERE ISSUED DURING WETTER TIMES UNDER THIS MODEL OF PRIOR APPROPRIATIONS WHERE THERE ARE MORE WATER RIGHT PERMITS THAN THERE IS WATER IN THE SYSTEM.

THAT WAS BEFORE WE REALLY STARTED TO SEE THE IMPACT OF CLIMATE CHANGE.

>>Laura: IT IS CLEAR DRY RIVERBEDS ARE BAD FOR FISH, COTTONWOODS FOREST, ALL THE SPECIES INCLUDING HUMANS WHO RELY ON THEM.

>>Tashjian: DRY RIVERS ARE NOT GOOD FOR WATER MANAGEMENT ITSELF.

JUST TO MOVE WATER DOWN TO FARMERS DOWNSTREAM OR BE MOVING WATER FOR DELIVERING IT TO OUR NEIGHBORING STATES LIKE TEXAS, HAVING A DRY RIVER IS NOT AN EFFICIENT WAY OR EFFECTIVE WAY TO MOVE WATER.

ACROSS THE BOARD, DRY RIVERS ARE DETRIMENTAL.

>> Laura: THERE ARE WAYS TO CHANGE THIS.

>> Tashjian: NEW MEXICO HAS DEVELOPED TOOLS TO KEEP WATER IN THE RIVERS WITHIN THE WATER RIGHTS SYSTEM AND I THINK IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT.

I CRITICIZE THE PRIORITY ADMINISTRATION SYSTEM BUT TO DISMANTLE IT ISN'T FEASIBLE.

>> Laura: WE HAVE THE STRATEGIC WATER RESERVE USED TO KEEP WATER IN RIVERS FOR RARE ANIMALS PROTECTED UNDER THE ENDANGERED SPECIES ACT.

FISH LIKE THE RIO GRANDE SILVERY MINNOW, THE PECOS BLUNT-NOSE SHINER AND THE PIKE MINNOW IN THE SAN JUAN RIVER.

TO HELP THOSE SPECIES THE STATE CAN LEASE WATER FROM WILLING FARMERS.

>> Tashjian: ANOTHER TOOL IS THIS THING CALLED DYNAMIC WATER LEASING.

IT IS SORT OF A NEWER TOOL DEVELOPED BY IRRIGATION DISTRICTS, ONE WHERE IRRIGATION DISTRICTS THEMSELVES ARE LEASING WATER FROM WILLING LESSEES AND PUT INTO A SIMILAR KIND OF BANK AND STORED AND USED FOR ENVIRONMENTAL PURPOSES.

>> Laura: THERE IS SO MUCH MORE TO DO.

>> Tashjian: WE ARE  THE ONLY WESTERN STATE THAT DOESN'T HAVE AN ENVIRONMENTAL FLOW PROGRAM AND IT HAS BEEN TALKED ABOUT FOR A LONG TIME.

WHAT AN ENVIRONMENTAL FLOW PROGRAM DOES IS IT USES THE TOOLS THAT ARE TALKED ABOUT IN OTHER TOOLS LOCALLY TO TRY TO FIND CREATIVE SOLUTIONS AND IT REALLY SHIFTS THE GAME, SHIFTS IT FROM ONE WHERE YOU'RE MANAGING FOR ENDANGERED SPECIES AND IT IS OUT OF FEAR OF LITIGATION.

IT LEADS TO KIND OF EDGY MANAGEMENT AND I HAVE SEEN IT.

BUT IF YOU SHIFT IT TO WHAT DO LOCAL COMMUNITIES WANT?

WHAT IS IMPORTANT?

WHAT TOOLS WORK IN THAT LOCAL COMMUNITY.

IT IS A MUCH DIFFERENT WAY OF MANAGING A SYSTEM.

I THINK THAT IS REALLY IMPORTANT.

ENDANGERED SPECIES ARE CRITICAL AND IMPORTANT, BUT WHEN YOU'RE DEALING WITH ENDANGERED SPECIES, YOU'RE ALREADY AT A CRISIS POINT.

>> Laura: ONCE THE RIVER DRIES AND DRIES THE NEXT YEAR AND DRIES AGAIN, WE GET USED TO THAT.

WE ACCEPT DRY OR BROKEN RIVERS AS NORMAL.

WE EVEN STOP REMEMBERING, STOP TELLING STORIES ABOUT WHAT A LIVING RIVER WAS LIKE.

>> Tashjian: EL PASO IS PRETTY REMARKABLE IF YOU HAVE EVER BEEN DOWN THERE.

IT IS BASICALLY A LARGE CONCRETE CHANNEL, WITH MAYBE A THREAD OF LEFT- OVER SEWAGE WATER OR SOMETHING RUNNING IT IN.

IT IS REALLY DEGRADING AND NO CORRIDOR OF TREES AROUND IT.

IT IS JUST A FUTURISTIC, CONCRETE, POST APOCALYPSE DITCH.

VERSUS HERE, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A CORRIDOR OF COTTONWOOD AND WILLOW TREES AND GRASSLAND AND A FLOWING RIVER.

IT IS QUITE DIFFERENT.

HARD TO GO BACK.

YOU CAN'T SORT OF GO BACK TO -- A PLACE LIKE EL PASO, YOU CAN'T ALL OF A SUDDEN RESTORE THAT RIVER DOWN THERE.

ONCE IT IS GONE.

IT IS GONE.

>> Laura: IN NEW MEXICO OUR RIVERS HAVE TAKEN CARE OF US FOR CENTURIES, FOREVER AND IF WE WANT TO KEEP THEM, IT IS TIME FOR US TO BE GIVING BACK.

FOR OUR LAND AND NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS, I AM LAURA PASKUS.

>>Gene Grant: THAT DOES IT FOR US HERE THIS WEEK.

WE’LL BE BACK WITH AN ALL NEW EPISODE OF THE SHOW NEXT WEEK WHEN WE DISCUSS THE STATE OF JOURNALISM HERE IN NEW MEXICO.

FOR NOW, THANKS AGAIN FOR JOINING US AND FOR STAYING INFORMED AND ENGAGED.

WE’LL SEE YOU AGAIN NEXT WEEK… IN FOCUS.

Funding for New Mexico in Focus provided by viewers like you.