>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

>> Lou: THIS WEEK ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS RESTORATIVE JUSTICE.

HEAR FROM A PUBLIC EDUCATION DEPARTMENT COORDINATOR ABOUT THE MERITS OF A NEW PILOT PROGRAM WITH OLD ROOTS MEANT TO HELP TRANSFORM SCHOOL DISCIPLINE.

>> Emma: WHAT WE HAVE SEEN IS ZERO TOLERANCE THAT MAY BE WELL INTENDED HAD A LOT OF NEGATIVE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES.

>> Lou: AND THE IMPACTS OF NUCLEAR DEVELOPMENT AND URANIUM MINING ON NEW MEXICO'S TRIBAL COMMUNITIES.

NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS STARTS NOW.

THANKS FOR JOINING US.

I AM SENIOR PRODUCER LOU DIVIZIO.

THIS IS OUR FIRST WEEK WITHOUT GENE GRANT AS OUR HOST.

DURING HIS FINAL SHOW LAST WEEK GENE ANNOUNCED STEPPING AWAY FROM NEW MEXICO PBS TO PURSUE ONE OF HIS PASSIONS, WORKING WITH ANIMAL PROTECTION OF NEW MEXICO.

YOU CAN WATCH HIS FAREWELL EPISODE ON THE PBS APP OR ON THE NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS YOUTUBE PAGE.

WE WISH GENE THE BEST AND WE WILL MISS HIM AND WE KNOW MANY OF YOU WILL TOO, BUT WE ARE EXCITED FOR THE FUTURE OF NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS.

AND AT THE BOTTOM OF THE HOUR, I AM GOING TO SIT DOWN WITH EXECUTIVE PRODUCER JEFF PROCTOR TO TALK ABOUT OUR CONTINUED COMMITMENT TO LOCAL AND STATE ISSUES AND WHAT TO EXPECT FROM US MOVING FORWARD.

OUR TEAM CORRESPONDENTS ARE GOING TO BE AN INTEGRAL PART OF OUR COVERAGE AND THIS WEEK ANTONIO GONZALES SPEAKS WITH NAVAJO ANTINUCLEAR ACTIVIST LEONA MORGAN ABOUT THE LONG-TERM IMPACTS THE NUCLEAR INDUSTRY HAS HAD ON INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES AND HOW SHE SAYS CHRISTOPHER NOLAN'S BLOCKBUSTER FILM, OPPENHEIMER, COMPLETELY MISSED THAT PERSPECTIVE.

BUT FIRST JEFF TALKS WITH EMMA GREEN FROM THE STATE PUBLIC EDUCATION DEPARTMENT AND EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF NEW MEXICO IN-DEPTH, TRIP JENNINGS, ABOUT A NEW APPROACH TO SCHOOL DISCIPLINE ROOTED IN ADDRESSING HARM AND COMMUNICATING TOGETHER.

AS JEFF EXPLAINS THE PHILOSOPHY IS CALLED RESTORATIVE JUSTICE.

>> Jeff: EMMA, TRIP, THANK YOU BOTH FOR JOINING ME ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS TODAY.

SO WE ARE GOING TO TALK ALL ABOUT TODAY A CONCEPT CALLED RESTORATIVE JUSTICE AND WHAT THAT MEANS IN THE CLASSROOM IN NEW MEXICO BUT I WOULD LIKE TO BEGIN WITH A LITTLE BIT OF HISTORY.

EMMA, CAN YOU DESCRIBE WHAT SCHOOL DISCIPLINE HAS MEANT IN OUR SCHOOLS HISTORICALLY IN NEW MEXICO AND WHAT IT WAS SUPPOSED TO ACCOMPLISH.

WHAT HAS DISCIPLINE LOOKED LIKE IN THE PAST?

>> Emma: SO IT IS NOT UNIQUE TO NEW MEXICO BUT NATIONWIDE WE REALLY HAVE HAD A ZERO TOLERANCE APPROACH TO DISCIPLINE MEANING FOR EVEN MINOR INFRACTIONS STUDENTS ARE SENT OUT OF THE SCHOOL, SENT OUT OF THE CLASSROOM, SENT OUT OF THE DISTRICT AND SO IT IS REALLY EXCLUSIONARY-BASED CONSEQUENCES AND MOST OF THE PHILOSOPHY COMES FROM A BOOK THAT WAS WRITTEN IN THE 1970'S CALLED ASSERTIVE DISCIPLINE.

IT IS REALLY ABOUT THAT TOP DOWN, YOU KNOW, THE TEACHER IS ALWAYS RIGHT AND IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW YOU FEEL AS A STUDENT.

EVEN IF YOU FEEL DISRESPECTED, YOU WERE TO FALL IN LINE AND WHAT WE HAVE SEEN IS ZERO TOLERANCE, WHILE MAYBE WELL INTENDED, HAD A LOT OF NEGATIVE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES REALLY TARGETING NEGATIVELY THE DISPROPORTIONATELY OUR MARGINALIZED STUDENTS THE MOST.

>> Jeff: HAVE THOSE APPROACHES BEEN EFFECTIVE?

HAVE THERE BEEN ANY SORT OF POSITIVES FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE ABOUT THAT OLD MODEL OF SORT OF SUSPENSION, EXPULSION, THAT KIND OF DISCIPLINE?

>> Emma: I THINK IN THE SEVERE CASES WHEN SOMEBODY IS AT RISK OF HARMING THEMSELVES OR OTHERS, THEN THERE DOES NEED TO BE KIND A PHYSICAL SEPARATION BUT REALLY THOSE ARE FOR REALLY EXTREME CASES AND SO WHAT WE HAVE SEEN NOW, EVEN THE MINOR CASES, THE NON-EXTREME CASES, TEND TO BE THIS KIND OF LIKE A BROAD STROKE OF ZERO TOLERANCE.

>> Jeff: SORT OF LIKE THAT OLD IF YOU ARE HAMMER EVERY PROBLEM LOOKS LIKE A NAIL TYPE OF THING.

>> Emma: RIGHT, EXACTLY.

SO, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, NATIONALLY AND STATE WE HAVE OUR GUNS FREE ACT WHICH DOES REQUIRE STUDENTS TO BE REMOVED FROM SCHOOL FOR NO LESS THAN A YEAR.

AND SO SOMETIMES CASES LIKE THAT, THEN, THE ASSERTIVE DISCIPLINE MODEL, THE KIND OF TRADITIONAL PUNITIVE EXCLUSIONARY DISCIPLINE MODELS TEND TO HAVE THEIR PLACE.

>> Jeff: LET'S TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT SOME OF THOSE CONSEQUENCES THAT WE HAVE SEEN FROM THE OLD MODEL.

TRIP, NEW MEXICO IN-DEPTH PUBLISHED A STORY BACK IN DECEMBER BY JOURNALIST BRYANT FURLOW IN WHICH YOU ALL TOOK A PRETTY DEEP LOOK AT DISCIPLINE IN ONE DISTRICT, IN GALLUP-MCKINLEY.

THAT IS THE DISTRICT, SCHOOL DISTRICT NATIONALLY, THAT HAS THE HIGHEST ENROLLMENT OF NATIVE STUDENTS.

WHAT DID BRYANT FIND?

>> Trip: THIS WAS A MONTH-LONG INVESTIGATION THAT WE DID WITH OUR PARTNER PROPUBLICA, A NONPROFIT OUT OF NEW YORK CITY.

FIRST OFF WE DID NOT IDENTIFY GALLUP-MCKINLEY AT THE START.

WE LOOKED AT PED DATA AND DISCIPLINE DATA AND THEN DATA TOOK US TO -- WE LEARNED THAT INDIGENOUS STUDENTS ARE MORE HARSHLY DISCIPLINED AT MUCH GREATER RATES THAN ANY OTHER GROUP IN NEW MEXICO.

AND THEN WE BEGAN TO LOOK TO SEE WHY THAT WAS AND IT LED US TO GALLUP-MCKINLEY WHICH, YOU KNOW, IS A VERY LARGE DISTRICT.

IT IS TWICE THE SIZE OF DELAWARE.

VERY RURAL.

IT'S FRONTIER AND VERY HIGH NAVAJO POPULATION, AS I RECALL.

AND BASICALLY THEY WERE DRIVING THE HARSH DISCIPLINE OF INDIGENOUS STUDENTS.

WHAT WE DID WAS WE LOOKED AT THE DATA.

WE ANALYZED THE DATA, WE WENT AND DOUBLE CHECKED THE DATA, TRIPLE CHECKED THE DATA, TRIED TO TALK TO THE SCHOOL SYSTEM AND WE PUBLISHED OUR STORY.

AND WHAT WE FOUND WAS A LOT OF WHAT EMMA WAS TALKING ABOUT, WHICH WAS, IN ONE CASE, THERE WAS THIS 13-YEAR OLD STUDENT, MATTHEW, IDENTIFIED AS MATTHEW.

WE DIDN'T IDENTIFY HIS LAST NAME, BUT MATTHEW, WHO, YOU KNOW, WAS WRITTEN UP ON SEVERAL, I THINK, PROBABLY DISORDERLY CONDUCT CHARGES WHICH GLUING A CHAIR, KNOCKING ON A PRINCIPAL'S WINDOW AND RUNNING AWAY.

AND WHAT WE FOUND FROM NATIONAL EXPERTS IS THAT, YOU KNOW, DISORDERLY CONDUCT IS THIS CATCHALL AND THAT IS WHERE YOU SEE THE RACIAL DISPARITIES.

>> Jeff: INTENTIONALLY VAGUE, RIGHT?

>> Trip: YES, INTENTIONALLY VAGUE AND THIS IS WHERE YOU GET THE ZERO TOLERANCE AND THIS IS WHERE YOU SEE THE RACIAL DISPARITIES OF MORE INDIGENOUS STUDENTS, GREATER RATES OF HARSH DISCIPLINE THAN MAYBE WHITE STUDENTS.

I THINK HISPANIC STUDENTS, THEY ARE SO SMALL IN GALLUP-MCKINLEY, THERE ARE SIMILAR RATES, BUT STATISTICALLY IT WAS HARD TO -- WE HAD A SMALL GROUP.

I DON'T WANT TO SAY IT IS STATISTICALLY INSIGNIFICANT BUT THEY HAVE A VERY LARGE INDIGENOUS POPULATION.

>> Jeff: SO WHAT HAPPENED TO MATTHEW?

CAN YOU TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE CONSEQUENCES WERE FOR THAT PARTICULAR STUDENT AS A RESULT OF THESE HARSH DISCIPLINE POLICIES?

>> Trip: YEAH, IT WAS A PROGRESSIVE KIND OF THING.

THE FIRST TIME, MAYBE SUSPENDED FOR A DAY.

SECOND, MAYBE SUSPENDED FOR A WEEK.

BY, YOU KNOW, MAYBE SEVERAL DISORDERLY CONDUCT WRITEUPS LATER IT WAS EXPULSION AND THAT WAS FOR THE REST OF THE YEAR.

MATTHEW -- WE TALKED TO HIS GRANDMOTHER AS WELL, YOU KNOW, MATTHEW HAD BEEN DIAGNOSED WITH ATTENTION DEFICIT DISORDER.

HIS GRANDMOTHER WAS UNDERGOING CANCER TREATMENTS.

THERE WAS A LOT OF STUFF GOING ON IN HIS LIFE THAT I THINK, AS A PARENT OF A CHILD AND I KNOW TEACHERS CAN TALK TO THIS, BUT I THINK WHEN A LOT OF STUFF IS GOING ON AT HOME, IT IS DIFFICULT IN THE CLASSROOM.

SO HE WAS EXPELLED AND WE TALKED TO MATTHEW AND HIS GRANDMOTHER OVER SEVERAL MONTHS AND GOT THIS STORY.

HE WAS THE PERSONAL STORY THAT WRAPPED AROUND THIS DATA THAT WE SAW IN GALLUP-MCKINLEY.

>> Jeff: LET'S PIVOT.

LET'S START TO TALK ABOUT SOMETHING THAT IS A BIT MORE HOPEFUL.

A LITTLE BIT MORE CONTEXT IN ADVANCE.

IT IS ALMOST ALWAYS TRUE THAT A BOLD IDEA OR CONCEPT LIKE RESTORATIVE JUSTICE TENDS TO FOLLOW SOMETHING THAT IS NOT WORKING IN A LARGER SYSTEM, A FAILURE SOMEHOW.

EMMA, WHAT IS RESTORATIVE JUSTICE, PHILOSOPHICALLY IN THE SCHOOL'S CONTEXT, AND HOW IS IT DIFFERENT FROM WHAT WE HAVE JUST BEEN SITTING HERE TALKING ABOUT?

>> Emma: THANKS.

THAT IS A GREAT QUESTION AND I THINK IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT TO BACK UP AND KIND OF LOOK AT WHAT IT IS AND WHAT IT ISN'T.

LIKE YOU SAID, BOLD IDEAS COME WITH A LOT OF BAGGAGE AND THAT INCLUDES CRITICISMS AND CRITIQUES, WHICH IS FINE, BUT, REALLY, RESTORATIVE JUSTICE IN THE CONTEXT OF EDUCATION IS A PHILOSOPHICAL SHIFT AWAY FROM THAT ZERO TOLERANCE, EXCLUSIONARY TRADITIONAL PUNITIVE MODEL AND A SHIFT, WHEN POSSIBLE, TOWARDS ACCOUNTABILITY-BASED CONSEQUENCES.

SO, SOME OF THE CRITICISM THAT I HEAR IS THESE KIDS ARE JUST LEFT, YOU KNOW, WITH A SLAP ON THE WRIST OR A HUG AND A LOLLIPOP AND HANDED BACK TO CLASS.

THAT IS ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE.

RESTORATIVE JUSTICE AND RESTORATIVE PRACTICES IN EDUCATION WHEN POSSIBLE SEEKS TO ASK FOUR QUESTIONS.

WHAT WAS THE HARM?

WHO CAUSED THE HARM?

WHO WAS HARMED AND HOW DO WE MAKE IT RIGHT?

SO, LIKE WE SPOKE OF A MINUTE AGO WITH GUNS FREE ACT AND THINGS LIKE THAT, WE CAN'T ALWAYS COME AND CIRCLE UP AND ASK THOSE FOUR QUESTIONS BUT A LOT OF TIMES WE CAN.

SO, REALLY WHAT IT DOES, IT CENTERS THE PEOPLE WHO WERE INVOLVED IN THE HARM AND IT HONORS THEIR HUMANITY AND REALLY CENTERS RELATIONSHIPS FIRST, SAYING, INSTEAD OF A RULE WAS BROKEN, SOME RELATIONSHIP WAS HARMED.

SO, EVEN IN LIKE CLASSROOM BEHAVIOR MANAGEMENT, IF WE HAVE GOT A KID WHO IS CONSTANTLY ON HIS OR HER PHONE AND HAS BEEN ASKED MULTIPLE TIMES NOT TO AND IS BREAKING KIND OF THE CLASSROOM AGREEMENT OF NO PHONES, THE HARM THAT IS CAUSED THERE IS THIS TEACHER IS TRYING TO TEACH, RIGHT?

AND OTHER STUDENTS IN THE CLASS ARE TRYING TO LEARN AND SO THAT CAN BE A GOOD OPPORTUNITY TO SAY, WHAT WAS THE HARM?

WHO WAS HARMED?

WHO DID THE HARM AND HOW DO WE MAKE IT RIGHT?

>> Jeff: WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE MECHANICALLY?

IF I WERE TO COME AND VISIT A SCHOOL WHERE THIS IS HAPPENING, WHAT WOULD I SEE?

>> Emma: IT DEPENDS ON WHEN YOU VISIT THE SCHOOL IN THE TIMELINE OF IMPLEMENTATION.

SO, I REALLY WANT TO MAKE IT CLEAR TO FOLKS, THAT THIS IS NOT AN EVENT.

IT IS A PROCESS AS FAR AS IMPLEMENTING RESTORATIVE AND MAKING THAT SHIFT FROM OUR EXCLUSIONARY TO OUR RESTORATIVE.

AND SO IT TAKES ABOUT THREE TO FIVE YEARS TO MAKE THAT SHIFT.

IF YOU ENTERED A SCHOOL THAT IS MAYBE IN THEIR FIRST YEAR OF IMPLEMENTING, YOU'LL SEE A LOT OF COMMUNITY BUILDING TALKING CIRCLES, CHECKING IN IN THE MORNING, EVEN ASKING LIKE, ON A SCALE OF FIST TO 5, FIST BEING ZERO AND YOU'RE NOT FEELING VERY GOOD AND 5 BEING LIKE BEST DAY EVER, LET'S JUST DO A QUICK CHECK IN.

AND SOME KIDDOS DON'T FEEL LIKE SHARING WHY.

IT IS OKAY TO SAY, LIKE, JUST SHOW ME A NUMBER.

IF YOU HAVE A KIDDO THAT IS LIKE, I AM 5, I'M 5, I'M 5, AND THEN LIKE YOU HAVE ONE, I AM A ZERO, I AM A ONE, IT IS NOT GROUNDBREAKING INFORMATION NECESSARILY BUT IT IS A GOOD CUE TO KNOW SOMETHING IS GOING ON THERE, SOMETHING MIGHT BE GOING ON AT HOME.

KIDS ARE THE CANARIES IN THE COAL MINE, RIGHT?

SO WHEN THEY START EXHIBITING BEHAVIORS THAT ARE PERCEIVED AS NEGATIVE IT MIGHT BE SOMETHING THAT IS HAPPENING AT HOME.

IT MIGHT BE THE CULTURE AND CLIMATE AND COMMUNITY THAT THEY ARE IN IN THEIR LEARNING ENVIRONMENT.

>> Jeff: SO, BRYANT DID A FOLLOW-UP STORY FOR NEW MEXICO IN-DEPTH ON THIS RESTORATIVE JUSTICE APPROACH AND A PILOT PROGRAM I KNOW YOU'RE INVOLVED WITH IN THE PUBLIC EDUCATION DEPARTMENT.

WHAT IS THAT PROGRAM AND HOW WERE THE SCHOOLS CHOSEN?

>> Emma: THAT I CAN SPEAK TO QUITE EASILY.

SO, THE PILOT PROGRAM IS CALLED THE PREVENTION RESPONSE AND RESILIENCY PROGRAM AND WE WERE ABLE TO BRING 12 SCHOOLS INTO OUR FIRST YEAR COHORT.

THEY ARE COHORT NO.

1 AND GETTING READY TO MOVE INTO THEIR SECOND YEAR AS THE SCHOOL YEAR KICKS OFF.

AND THEY WERE CHOSEN BASED ON A COMPETITIVE APPLICATION PROCESS WHERE A REVIEW COMMITTEE REVIEWED THEIR APPLICATIONS, WE HAD A SCORING RUBRIC ON WHO SCORED THE HIGHEST AROUND LIKE THEIR READINESS, THEIR LEVEL OF BUY-IN, NOT ONLY PERSONALLY TO IMPLEMENTING BUT ALSO KIND OF THE LEVEL OF BUY-IN AMONG STAFF AND ADMIN.

SO, WE GOT 36 APPLICATIONS IN OUR FIRST YEAR.

WE THOUGHT THAT WAS PRETTY GOOD AND WE WERE ABLE TO TAKE 12 DUE TO FUNDING AND BUDGETARY AND PERSONAL CAPACITY, YOU KNOW, LIMITATIONS.

BUT I AM HAPPY TO SAY THAT WE NOT ONLY GOT RENEWED FUNDING FOR THE SCHOOL YEAR WE ARE ABOUT TO GO INTO, BUT INCREASED FUNDING.

SO I AM ABLE TO STILL CONTINUE TO SUPPORT MY ORIGINAL 12 SCHOOLS THAT MAKE UP COHORT 1.

WE ARE ABOUT READY TO OPEN THE APPLICATION WINDOW AGAIN FOR A NEW COHORT, COHORT 2 TO COME IN, 12 MORE SCHOOLS.

AND SAME PROCESS, COMPETITIVE APPLICATION PROCESS, GRADED WITH A RUBRIC AND I AM REALLY HAPPY TO SAY OUT OF THE '60 PEOPLE THAT ARE COHORT ONE WE HAVE SIX OR SEVEN STUDENTS, WHICH IS REALLY IMPORTANT TO ME.

OUR EDUCATION SYSTEM IS SUPPOSED TO BE FOR STUDENTS BUT YET THEY ARE CONSPICUOUSLY MISSING FROM THE DESIGN.

>> Jeff: TRIP, I WANT TO GO BACK TO YOU BRIEFLY.

WHEN BRYANT PITCHED THIS, THE FOLLOW-UP STORY ABOUT THE RESTORATIVE JUSTICE WORK, WHAT, FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE AS AN EDITOR AND PUBLISHER, MADE THAT A NEW MEXICO IN-DEPTH STORY.

WHY DID YOU WANT TO PUBLISH THAT STORY?

WHAT WAS IMPORTANT ABOUT IT TO YOU?

>> Trip: I AM GOING TO HANDLE THE BRYANT PART OF THE QUESTION, BECAUSE HE WAS DOING THE REPORTING AND WHAT HE WAS BEING TOLD AT GALLUP-MCKINLEY WAS THAT THE HIGH EXPULSION RATES, HIGH DISCIPLINE RATES WERE DUE TO HIGH POVERTY, HUNGER, ALL THIS KIND OF STUFF.

SO THEY BEGAN LOOKING AROUND AND THEY FOUND DISTRICTS WHERE YOU HAD THE SAME DEMOGRAPHIC POPULATION, HIGH POVERTY A LOT OF HUNGER, AND THERE WASN'T THIS EXPULSION, HARSH DISCIPLINE.

THAT LED HIM DOWN, LIKE, WHY IS THAT?

AND BASICALLY HE FOUND THAT RESTORATIVE JUSTICE IN CUBA, CUBA INDEPENDENT SCHOOLS, CUBA AND GALLUP-MCKINLEY WERE IDENTIFIED IN THE REPORT LIKE A DOZEN YEARS AGO BY THE CENTER ON LAW AND POVERTY AS HAVING A REALLY BIG PROBLEM.

AND TODAY GALLUP-MCKINLEY STILL HAS A HIGH EXPULSION RATE.

CUBA, NOT SO MUCH, BECAUSE THEY ARE ACTUALLY DOING SOME OF THESE TALKING CIRCLES AND RESTORATIVE JUSTICE.

PART OF THE REASON THAT IT INTERESTS ME AS SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN AROUND, YOU KNOW, THESE KIND OF SUBJECTS FOR A LONG TIME, I MEAN, I RAN INTO RESTORATIVE JUSTICE FIRST IN THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE WORLD.

I SAY THE PUNITIVE MEASURES THAT YOU COULD SEE, I WAS IN CALIFORNIA WHEN THREE STRIKES YOU ARE OUT STARTED.

BUT MAINLY IT WAS THIS KIND OF MORAL QUESTION WHICH IS LIKE, RESTORATIVE JUSTICE SEEMS TO BE MORE COMMUNAL THAN INDIVIDUALISTIC.

THAT IS HOW I WOULD PUT IT.

THAT IS LAY SPEAK.

MORE COMMUNAL AND IT IS ABOUT THE SOCIOLOGICAL PHRASE THAT I LIKE, THIS UNIVERSAL OBLIGATION.

WHAT DO WE OWE PEOPLE IN OUR COMMUNITY AND IT IS ABOUT RELATIONSHIPS.

I THINK THESE ARE REALLY IMPORTANT QUESTIONS THAT JOURNALISTS, EDUCATORS, PHILOSOPHERS, POLICYMAKERS SHOULD BE ASKING RIGHT NOW AND I THINK THAT IS REALLY AT THE HEART -- I COULD TALK ALL DAY, AS YOU KNOW, ABOUT THIS KIND OF STUFF.

BUT I'LL STOP THERE.

>> Jeff: THE IDEA OF SORTING HARM TOO REALLY SITS WITH ME, SORTING AND TRYING TO MAKE SOMETHING RIGHT THAT WAS WRONG.

WE COULD TALK ALL DAY ABOUT IT.

>> Trip: AND WE HAVE SOMETIMES.

>> Jeff: INDEED.

LET'S RETURN TO SOME OF THE CRITICISM THAT YOU MENTIONED EARLIER OF THIS APPROACH, RIGHT?

I AM GOING TO READ A QUOTE FROM BRYANT'S STORY FROM ROD MONTOYA, REPUBLICAN STATE REP FROM FARMINGTON.

THIS IS WHAT HE SAID FOR THAT STORY.

HE SAID, QUOTE, RESTORATIVE JUSTICE MEANS NO CONSEQUENCES.

TEACHERS ARE NOT PSYCHOLOGISTS.

IS HE RIGHT?

>> Emma: TEACHERS ARE NOT PSYCHOLOGISTS BUT LUCKILY WE ARE NOT ASKING THEM TO BE.

AND I WOULD SAY HE IS WRONG IN THE NO CONSEQUENCES.

I HAVE DONE OVER 300 TALKING CIRCLES, SOME THAT WERE JUST COMMUNITY BUILDING AND SOME THAT WERE ACTUALLY WHAT WE CALL TIER 3, LIKE A HARMLESS CAUSE, AND WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO MAKE IT RIGHT.

AND I HAVE NEVER SEEN MORE ACCOUNTABILITY IN ANY HUMAN THAN WHEN SOMEBODY UNDERSTANDS THAT THEY HARMED SOMEBODY ELSE THAT MAYBE THEY DIDN'T REALLY REALIZE THE RIPPLE EFFECT OF THEIR ACTION.

YOU KNOW, THEY MIGHT THINK, OH, YEAH, WELL, I AM SUSPENDED FROM SCHOOL.

SO THEY THINK THAT WAS THE RIPPLE EFFECT.

IT STARTED AND STOPPED WITH ME.

NO, MOM HAD TO TAKE TIME OFF OF WORK TO COME DOWN AND HAVE THIS CONVERSATION WITH ME AND YOU KIDDO RIGHT NOW.

AND SO REALLY TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THE RIPPLE EFFECTS OF ONE'S ACTIONS.

AND WHAT I LOVE ABOUT IT IS WE ARE TEACHING EMPATHY.

WE ARE TEACHING PERSPECTIVE TEACHING.

WE ARE TEACHING SELF MANAGEMENT.

WE ARE TRYING TO BUILD BETTER CITIZENS FOR OUR FUTURE, RIGHT?

IF THAT IS NOT WHAT EDUCATION IS FOR, THEN I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS FOR.

>> Jeff: YOU USED THE WORD "ACCOUNTABILITY" INSTEAD OF THE WORD "CONSEQUENCES".

WHICH I FIND INCREDIBLY INTERESTING.

I WANT TO ASK ONE MORE QUESTION ABOUT THIS APPROACH.

AS SCHOOLS ADOPT THIS AND YOUR PILOT PROGRAM EXPANDS AND MAYBE PED TAKES ON A LITTLE BIT MORE OF THIS, SHOULD WE EXPECT THIS AS A TOTAL REPLACEMENT FOR THE SYSTEM THAT EXISTED BEFORE?

DOES THIS PROCESS, THIS PHILOSOPHY, APPLY TO EVERY TIME A KID MISBEHAVIORS IN SCHOOL.

>> Emma: NO, IT DOESN'T.

THERE ARE SOME OF THOSE CASES LIKE I SPOKE ABOUT AT THE BEGINNING OF THE SHOW AROUND THE GUNS FREE ACT AND, YOU KNOW, REALLY, EACH DISTRICT GETS TO MAKE THEIR OWN DECISIONS ON HOW MUCH OR HOW LITTLE THEY WANT TO ADOPT OF THIS.

IT IS NOT A STATE STATUTE, NOT A NATIONAL MANDATE AND REALLY WHAT ME AND MY PROGRAM AND MY COLLEAGUES IN THE COHORT ARE DOING ARE ILLUSTRATING THAT IT IS EFFECTIVE.

WE ARE ALWAYS COLLECTING DATA.

SO, WE ALSO KNOW THAT IT TAKES THREE TO FIVE YEARS TO SEE THAT DATA EVEN SHIFT.

SO, MY SCOPE OF WORK IS SIMPLE BUT NOT EASY.

IT IS TO REDUCE SUSPENSIONS AND EXPULSIONS AND INCREASE ACADEMIC ACHIEVEMENT AND ATTENDANCE BY WAY OF RESTORATIVE JUSTICE PRACTICES AND OTHER TRAUMA-INFORMED AND TRAUMA-RESPONSIVE PRACTICES.

AND SO I DON'T THINK IT IS EVER A GOOD IDEA TO START SOMETHING NEW BY COMPLETELY THROWING AWAY WHAT HAS BEEN AROUND, RIGHT?

SO I THINK IT IS A SHIFT SLOWLY.

>> Jeff: YOU ANSWERED HALF OF MY LAST QUESTION WHICH IS WHEN SHOULD WE START TO EXPECT TO SEE WHETHER THIS IS HAVING AN EFFECT.

I WANT TO ASK THE OTHER HALF OF THE QUESTION.

HOW WILL WE KNOW IF THIS IS WORKING?

>> Emma: THAT IS A GREAT QUESTION AND I HOPE TO BE ABLE TO ILLUSTRATE THE EFFECTIVENESS THROUGH DATA THAT WE ARE COLLECTING SO HOPEFULLY WE CAN SHOW COMPARISON DATA TO THE SCHOOLS THAT ARE DOING RESTORATIVE TO THE SCHOOLS IN THE STATE THAT ARE NOT.

THAT IS ONE WAY.

WE CAN LOOK AT SUSPENSIONS AND EXPULSION RATES, LOOK AT ACADEMIC ACHIEVEMENT AND ATTENDANCE RATES AND GRADUATION RATES.

AND THOSE ARE EASILY QUANTIFIABLE BUT SOME OF THE MORE IMPORTANT DATA THAT IS HARDER TO QUANTIFY IS, IS THERE A SENSE OF BELONGING IN MY CLASSROOM, IN MY SCHOOL, IN MY DISTRICT, ON MY CAMPUS?

DO YOU FEEL SAFE, SUPPORTED, SEEN, HEARD, VALUED?

VALIDATED AS A STUDENT AND AS A STAFF BECAUSE OUR SAFE, SUPPORTIVE AND HEALTHY LEARNING ENVIRONMENTS ARE ALSO SAFE, SUPPORTIVE AND HEALTHY WORKPLACES.

>> Jeff: EMMA, TRIP, THANK YOU BOTH A TON FOR COMING DOWN TO TALK TO ME TODAY.

>> Trip: THANK YOU.

>> Eisenfeld: 2010 WAS REALLY SORT OF WHEN ALL OF A SUDDEN THERE IS THIS IDEA THAT THERE WAS GOING TO BE A BOON FOR SHALE THAT THEY COULD HORIZONTALLY DRILL.

SO THE MANCOS SHALE AND MANCOS GALLUP FORMATIONS KIND OF BECAME, AT THAT POINT, THE FOCUS IN AN EXPLORATION PHASE.

AND SO ONE OF OUR PRIMARY CONCERNS IS THAT THAT EXPLORATION ALL THE WAY TO 2022 HAS NEVER BEEN ASSESSED CUMULATIVELY, NEVER BEEN ASSESSED FOR DEVELOPMENT.

>> Lou: IT HAS BEEN NEARLY A MONTH SINCE IT HIT THEATERS BUT OPPENHEIMER CONTINUES TO CATCH THE EYES OF MOVIE GOERS.

IT IS A FILM NEAR 650 MILLION-DOLLARS AT THE GLOBAL BOX OFFICE.

WITH THE WORLD'S ATTENTION TURNED TO LOS ALAMOS MORE AND MORE PEOPLE ARE LEARNING ABOUT THE START OF NEW MEXICO'S HISTORY WITH NUCLEAR TESTING AND URANIUM MINING.

THIS WEEK, NEW MEXICO INFOCUS CORRESPONDENT ANTONIA GONZALES SITS DOWN WITH LEONA MORGAN, A NAVAJO WOMAN INVOLVED IN THE ANTINUCLEAR MOVEMENT FOR YEARS.

AS SHE EXPLAINS TESTING AND MINING HAVE CAUSED IRREPARABLE DAMAGE TO NATIVE AMERICAN COMMUNITIES ACROSS THE STATE, SOMETHING SHE SAYS, CHRISTOPHER NOLAN'S FILM IGNORES.

>> Antonia: LEONA, WELCOME TO NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS.

>> Morgan: THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> Antonia: YOU ARE A LONG TIME BRASS ROOTS ADVOCATE, ADVOCATING FOR THE NAVAJO PEOPLE, LAND AND WATER.

TELL ME A LITTLE BIT ABOUT SOME OF THE WORK YOU HAVE BEEN DOING.

>> Morgan: SURE, YEAH.

I USED TO WORK FOR AN ORGANIZATION CALLED EASTERN NAVAJO DINÉ AGAINST URANIUM MINING AND I WAS SO PROUD TO SAY IN 2014 WE STOPPED A NEW URANIUM MINE.

SINCE NOVEMBER LAST YEAR, THAT MINING PROJECT HAS MOVED FORWARD A LITTLE BIT SO THAT IS ONE OF THE ISSUES THAT I AM KEEPING AN EYE ON.

THERE IS ALSO URANIUM CLEAN-UP ALL OVER NAVAJO AND THERE IS SOME CLEAN-UP THAT SHOULD BE HAPPENING IN THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO AS WELL, BUT WHAT I HAVE REALLY BEEN FOCUSING ON THE LAST SIX YEARS IS HOLTEC, THIS PROPOSAL TO BUILD A NUCLEAR WASTE SITE HERE AND THEN JUST KEEPING A BIRD'S EYE VIEW ON MOST OF THE NUCLEAR PROJECTS IN THE STATE AND HOW IT AFFECTS INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.

>> Antonia: AND HOW HAS MINING, SUCH AS URANIUM, IMPACTED NAVAJO PEOPLE, WATER, AND LAND AND YOUR WORK ON THE NAVAJO NATION?

>> Morgan: THE MINING THAT WAS DONE ON NAVAJO STARTING IN THE LATE 30'S AND ARGUABLY WHATEVER IS HAPPENING TODAY IS ALL IN THE NAME OF EITHER NUCLEAR ENERGY OR NUCLEAR WEAPONS AND SO NUCLEAR WEAPONS WAS THE MAIN REASON WHY WE STARTED TO MINE, BUT TODAY IT IS BOTH WEAPONS AND ENERGY.

NAVAJO NATION HAS BEEN MINED NOT ONLY TO FUEL WORLD WAR II AND THE COLD WAR BUT BASICALLY THE UNITED STATES IMPERIAL ARSENAL OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS ALONG WITH OTHER INDIGENOUS NATIONS ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND THE WORLD.

SO, URANIUM IS MINED ON INDIGENOUS LANDS, WE ESTIMATE, AT LEAST 70% OF THE TIME WORLDWIDE SO THE IMPACTS THAT WE ARE FEELING ON NAVAJO SUCH AS CONTAMINATED LAND AND WATER AND AIR WHICH IMPACTS OUR HUMAN HEALTH AND THEN ALSO OUR FOOD RESOURCES AND THEN THE IMPACTS TO OUR FUTURE GENERATIONS ARE STILL BEING STUDIED.

SO WE ARE NOT SURE OF THE LONG-TERM IMPLICATIONS BUT THIS IS HAPPENING ALL OVER THE WORLD WHEREVER URANIUM IS BEING MINED, NOT JUST THROUGH THE EXTRACTION OF THE ORE BODIES BUT RIGHT NOW WE ARE ALSO LOOKING AT ISL MINING, WHICH IS -- IT IS NOT FRACKING BUT IT IS BASICALLY EXTRACTING DIRECTLY OUT OF THE AQUIFER.

SO THERE IS EXTRACTION, PROCESSING AND THEN ALL OF THE DIFFERENT STEPS LEADING INTO THE FUEL FABRICATION AS WELL AS HERE IN NEW MEXICO WE HAVE ENRICHMENT AND SEVERAL STEPS OF THE NUCLEAR FUEL CHAIN.

WE DON'T HAVE A NUCLEAR POWER PLANT HERE BUT WE HAVE TWO NATIONAL LABS AND THEN THE WASTE ISOLATION PILOT PLANT WHICH IS FOR WEAPONS WASTE, BUT RIGHT NOW WE ARE LOOKING AT ALSO A NEW WEAPONS -- I AM SORRY -- A NEW WASTE FACILITY WHICH WAS JUST LICENSED IN MAY.

I DON'T THINK THAT FACILITY WILL EVER OPEN.

I AM TALKING ABOUT THE HOLTEC PROPOSAL BUT, YEAH, SO THERE IS A LOT OF IMPACTS TO OUR PEOPLE.

EVEN THOUGH NAVAJO IS NOT LOCATED ALL OVER THE STATE, THERE IS INDIGENOUS NATIONS THAT WERE IMPACTED FROM LOS ALAMOS, THE PEOPLE DOWN SOUTH WHERE THE WASTE SITES ARE, THERE IS INDIGENOUS PEOPLES WHOSE LANDS WERE STOLEN THERE AND JUST BEING IN NEW MEXICO, ALL NEW MEXICANS ARE IMPACTED BY THIS.

>> Antonia: WHAT IS THE STATE OF URANIUM ON THE NAVAJO NATION TODAY?

THERE HAS BEEN SOME MEETINGS BETWEEN -- WELL, MAYBE YOU CAN EXPLAIN THAT A LITTLE BIT -- BETWEEN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND NAVAJO COMMUNITIES.

>> Morgan: RIGHT NOW THE NAVAJO NATION HAS A LAW AGAINST URANIUM MINING WHICH IS ONLY ON NAVAJO NATION PROPER.

SO, IF ANYONE IS FAMILIAR WITH THE CHECKERBOARD AREA, THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE PARCELS OF LAND THAT WERE TAKEN TO BUILD THE RAILROAD OR DURING THE DOG'S ACT OR JUST ALONG THE PATHS OF COLONIZATION, WHEN OUR LANDS WERE TAKEN BY PRIVATE ENTITIES OR THE STATE OR THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

WE HAVE ALL THESE DIFFERENT LAND STATUSES IN NORTHWESTERN NEW MEXICO THAT MAKE IT INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT FOR THE NAVAJO NATION TO ENFORCE ITS LAWS.

SO, THERE IS SINCE 2002 DINA THE NATIONAL RESOURCES PROTECTION ACT, WHICH SAYS NO NEW MINING ON THE NAVAJO NATION, BUT IT IS, LIKE I SAID, THERE IS A LOT OF LOOPHOLES IN THE JURISDICTION AND THEN IN 2012, THE NAVAJO NATION PASSED A LAW AGAINST TRANSPORT OF NEW URANIUM.

SO THAT TRANSPORTATION LAW DOES NOT PROHIBIT CLEAN-UP BUT IT IS MORE FOR PRODUCTION OF URANIUM.

SO, EVEN THOUGH WE HAVE THIS BAN OR MORATORIUM ON URANIUM MINING AS WELL AS THE TRANSPORTATION LAW, THERE IS A CANADIAN COMPANY RIGHT NOW DOING EXPLORATION NEAR CHURCH ROCK, CLOSE TO WHERE THE 1979 CHURCH ROCK SPILL HAPPENED.

SO, WE ARE LOOKING AT THIS AS ILLEGAL DRILLING.

THERE IS A LOT OF AGREEMENTS PREVIOUS COMPANIES HAD MADE WITH THE NAVAJO NATION TO DO CLEAN-UP BEFORE NEW MINING WOULD OCCUR, WHICH THIS NEW COMPANY IS NOT RESPECTING SOMETHING WE CALLED THE TEMPORARY ACCESS AGREEMENT.

HOWEVER, JUST IN A NUTSHELL, THERE IS NO NEW MINING AND THE U.S. EPA IS WORKING WITH NAVAJO EPA AND SEVERAL OTHER AGENCIES TO CLEAN-UP WHAT THEY IDENTIFY AS 523 ABANDONED URANIUM MINES.

WE SAY AUM FOR SHORT, BUT THIS NUMBER, IT IS IDENTIFIED BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

IT IS NOT A TRUE COUNT OF ALL OF THE CONTAMINATION ON NAVAJO.

SO, ACROSS THE COUNTRY, ARGUABLY THERE IS AT LEAST 15,000 ABANDONED URANIUM MINES BUT ON NAVAJO THEY ARE LOOKING AT CLEANING UP THESE 523.

AND THE COURSE OF CLEAN-UP IS BEING LED MOSTLY FROM A TOP DOWN EFFORT OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TELLING THE NAVAJO NATION WHAT TO DO AND WHAT THE LIMITATIONS ARE.

YESTERDAY I WAS AT A MEETING REGARDING URANIUM CLEAN-UP.

IN THIS SITUATION THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS TELLING THE COMMUNITY, YOU HAVE TWO OPTIONS.

NO ACTION ALTERNATIVE OR THE ALTERNATIVE TO CLEAN UP ONE COMMUNITY NORTH OF CHURCH ROCK BY BRINGING THE WASTE INTO THOREAU, AN AREA THAT IS NOT CONTAMINATED CURRENTLY.

SO, ESSENTIALLY IT IS HISTORY REPEATING ITSELF WHERE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS DICTATING WHAT SHOULD BE DONE ON OUR LANDS, MAKING DECISIONS WITHOUT THE LOCAL PEOPLE AT THE TABLE.

SO, THE COURSE OF CLEAN-UP OVER THE LAST -- SINCE THE WAXMAN HEARINGS IN 2007 HAVE BEEN INADEQUATE.

IT HAS BEEN VERY TOP DOWN, NOT INCLUDING THE COMMUNITY OF PEOPLE AT THE TABLE BUT THERE IS ALSO NO CLEAR STANDARD, NO CLEAR INFORMATION FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WHAT THEY ARE DOING.

THEY GIVE PRESENTATIONS BUT A LOT OF THE SLIDES ARE NOT AVAILABLE ONLINE.

SO IT IS INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT FOR ANYONE FOLLOWING THESE ISSUES TO COME TO ONE PLACE LIKE A CENTRAL RESERVOIR EITHER ONLINE OR A PHYSICAL LOCATION AND GET UP TO DATE WITH ALL THE CLEAN-UP EITHER IN WESTERN AGENCY OR EASTERN AGENCIES BECAUSE NAVAJO NATION IS HUGE.

AND THERE IS A LOT OF CLEAN-UP HAPPENING ALL ACROSS THE RESERVATION BUT THERE IS NO CLEAR WAY FOR COMMUNITY PEOPLE TO INPUT UNLESS THEY ARE ALREADY INVOLVED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

SO, SOMEONE LIKE ME OR ANY DINÉ RESIDENT WHO WANTS TO LEARN ABOUT THESE ISSUES, IT TAKES A LOT OF WORK TO FIND OUT WHAT IS GOING ON AND SO THE PREVIOUS NAVAJO EPA EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, DARYL YAZZI, HE WAS QUITE VOCAL ABOUT HOW HE WAS OPPOSING THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DICTATING TO NAVAJO WHAT THEY CAN AND CANNOT DO.

BUT HE IS NO LONGER IN HIS POSITION AND SO WHEN PEOPLE BECOME VOCAL AND SPEAK OUT, THEY LOSE THEIR JOBS.

AND SO IN PLACES LIKE, LET'S SAY, AROUND LOS ALAMOS, A LOT OF THE TRIBES THERE, THEIR HANDS ARE TIED BECAUSE OF AGREEMENTS WITH DOE OR DOD.

I AM NOT SURE WITH NAVAJO NATION WHY IT IS SO HARD TO DO THE CLEAN-UP THAT WE NEED.

RIGHT NOW A LOT OF IT MAYBE THEY SAY IT IS GOING TO BE TOO EXPENSIVE.

A LOT OF IT IS BASED ON FUNDING AND SO IT IS REALLY CONFUSING TO ME THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT CAN'T CLEAN UP THE MESS THEY MADE WHEN THEY ARE PUTTING TRILLIONS INTO MAKING MORE WASTE THROUGH ITS WEAPONS COMPLEX.

>> Antonia: FOLLOWING THESE ISSUES LIKE YOU DO AND BEING AWARE AND GOING TO DIFFERENT MEETINGS, HAVE YOU SEEN ANY JUSTICE OR DO YOU SEE JUSTICE FOR NATIVE PEOPLE IMPACTED BY THESE ISSUES WHETHER IT IS AN ACKNOWLEDGMENT OR CLEANUP OR COMPENSATION?

>> Morgan: NO.

THERE IS NONNATIVE COMMUNITIES WHERE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE DONE COMPLETE CLEANUP BY MOVING HUGE PILES OF WASTE IN WHITE NEIGHBORHOODS OR IN PLACES WHERE WATER RESOURCES MIGHT BE AT RISK, BUT THESE ARE NOT ON THE NAVAJO NATION AND SO I DON'T THINK IN ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD THERE HAS BEEN CLEANUP TO PRE-MINING CONDITIONS.

AND SO WHEN YOU SAY JUSTICE, FIRST, WE THINK ABOUT HUMAN JUSTICE.

WE THINK ABOUT THE PEOPLE AND WHAT THEY WANT AND MOST PEOPLE WHO HAD BEEN IMPACTED BY URANIUM MINING WERE NOT GIVEN, FIRST, INFORMATION.

THEY WERE NOT EDUCATED BEFORE THE MINING STARTED, SO FREE, PRIOR, INFORMED CONSENT WAS NOT THERE.

A LOT OF TIMES THE BACKGROUND RADIATION LEVELS WERE NOT RECORDED.

SO, HOW CAN YOU DETERMINE IF THE CLEANUP IS JUST?

SO, FOR ME, I THINK THE JUST THING WOULD BE TO NOT DO URANIUM MINING.

WHEN A COMMUNITY SAYS NO, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO LISTEN AND NOT MAKE THE MESS TO BEGIN WITH BECAUSE THERE HAS NEVER BEEN ANY JUSTICE FOR THE CLEANUP, FOR NUCLEAR EXPERIMENTS ON HUMAN LIVES, FOR THE WASTE PILES THAT ARE BLOWING ALL OVER THE COUNTRY AND THE SADDEST THING IS OUR RELATIVES, MANY OF OUR RELATIVES HAVE DIED NOT KNOWING THAT THEY DIED FROM RADIATION EXPOSURE OR AS A VICTIM OF THE COLD WAR OR, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY FOR SOMETHING THEY HAD NO -- THEY DID NOT CONSENT TO.

>> Antonia: THESE ISSUES ARE TALKED ABOUT A LITTLE BIT MORE WITH THE NEW OPPENHEIMER MOVIE BEING RELEASED.

YOU SAW IT.

WHAT WERE YOU THOUGHTS?

>> Morgan: I WENT TO SEE THE MOVIE BECAUSE AS A PERSON WHO WORKS ON URANIUM MINING, MY FOCUS IS MORE ON THE HUMAN IMPACT.

WE CALL URANIUM MINING THE FRONT END OF THE NUCLEAR FUEL CHAIN AND THE BACK END IS NUCLEAR WASTE AND SO I ACTUALLY AM NOT AN EXPERT ON THE WEAPONS COMPLEX.

I AM VERY AWARE OF THE URANIUM COMING FROM AFRICA, FROM SHINDOLOBWE URANIUM MINE WHERE PEOPLE WERE MINING IT WITH THEIR HANDS.

SO WE TALK ABOUT THE INJUSTICES DINÉ URANIUM MINERS BUT IMAGINE THE INJUSTICES TO PEOPLE IN AFRICA, LIKE, TODAY WE ARE HEARING ABOUT THE COBALT MINING BY CHILDREN.

SO THE MINING THAT OCCURRED FOR THE MANHATTAN PROJECT WAS INCREDIBLY DIRTY AND CONTAMINATING AND WENT UNACCOUNTED FOR.

THE GOVERNMENTS AND INDUSTRIES DON'T EVEN MENTION SHINKOLOBWE URANIUM MINE.

I WANT TO START THERE.

WE CAN GO ALL THE WAY BACK TO THE DOCTRINE OF DISCOVERY AND THE TOOLS OF COLONIZATION THAT WE ARE AWARE OF TODAY THAT RESULTED IN THIS STEALING OF OUR LAND.

AND SO GOING BACK TO THE OPPENHEIMER MOVIE, THEY TOOK THE URANIUM FROM AFRICA, IT TRAVELED ALL OVER THE COUNTRY TO BE PROCESSED AND THEY FINISHED THE PROJECT HERE ON STOLEN LAND.

AND THIS IS SOMETHING THAT MANY PEOPLE DON'T KNOW THAT THE FIRST TEST WAS ALSO HERE IN NEW MEXICO AND SO THE PEOPLE, THE DOWN WINDERS OF THE TRINITY TEST, THEY WERE NEVER ACKNOWLEDGED, INFORMED, APOLOGIZED TO OR COMPENSATED BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT FOR USING NOT JUST THEIR LANDS BUT BASICALLY MAKING THEM GUINEA PIGS IN THIS FIRST NUCLEAR TEST.

SO, WHEN I SAW THE OPPENHEIMER MOVIE, I WAS JUST LOOKING FOR ANY EVIDENCE OF URANIUM MINING OR EVIDENCE OF NEW MEXICO BESIDES THE BEAUTIFUL LANDSCAPE.

I THINK THE ACTOR'S BELT BUCKLE WAS MAYBE A SILVER BELT BUCKLE MADE BY SOME NATIVE PERSON.

OTHER THAN THAT IT WAS COMPLETE ERASURE OF THE IMPACT OF LAND, THE ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT, THE HISTORY, NOT JUST IN NEW MEXICO BUT ACROSS THE WORLD AND THE COUNTRY OF THOSE THAT WERE IMPACTED BY THE MANHATTAN PROJECT, WHO ARE STILL IMPACTED TODAY.

IT ALSO DIDN'T TALK ABOUT THE DEATHS IN JAPAN, THE PEOPLE WHO, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THEM WERE VAPORIZED AND THE THINGS THAT HAPPENED THERE.

THE ATROCITIES WERE COMPLETELY LEFT OUT OF THE MOVIE.

JULY 16 IS THE ANNIVERSARY OF THE TRINITY TEST.

SO, ON JULY 16, THERE IS PEOPLE IN NEW MEXICO THAT REMEMBER THAT DAY BECAUSE IT IS THE FIRST DAY THERE WAS A NUCLEAR TEST.

ON JULY 16, 1979 WAS THE CHURCH ROCK SPILL.

WE HAVE TWO NUCLEAR DISASTERS THAT ARE REMEMBERED IN TWO PARTS OF THE STATE ON THE SAME DAY.

AND THEN A COUPLE WEEKS LATER, IN JAPAN THEY HAVE THEIR COMMEMORATION ON AUGUST 6 AND AUGUST 9.

ALL OF THESE WERE LEFT OFF THE OPPENHEIMER FILM, THE HUMAN IMPACT, AND THEN THE OTHER THINGS I SAW FROM THE MOVIE WERE JUST -- NOT JUST THE ERASURE BUT EXTRACTIVE NATURE OF COLONIAL FORCES SUCH AS, NOT JUST THE RESOURCES AND THE PHYSICAL MATERIALS TO MAKE THE BOMB, BUT OPPENHEIMER WAS IN LOVE WITH NEW MEXICO.

HE LOVED THIS LAND, HE WANTED TO COMBINE PHYSICS AND NEW MEXICO WAS ONE OF THE LINES IN THE MOVIE AND I REMEMBER CRINGING WHEN HE SAID THAT, IT HURT, YOU KNOW, INSIDE MY BODY.

I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY TIMES DURING THE MOVIE I WAS -- THE THEATER WAS COMPLETELY FILLED.

I WAS FEELING LIKE SO MANY EMOTIONS BUT YOU'RE IN A PUBLIC SPACE AND SO THE HURT, THE ANGER, THE RAGE, THERE WAS A LOT OF EMOTIONS THAT I FELT THROUGHOUT THE MOVIE BUT I THINK A LOT OF IT -- THE BOTTOM LINE IS I WASN'T SURPRISED.

THERE WAS NO SURPRISE THAT HOLLYWOOD, A FILM WRITTEN AND CREATED BY -- WHAT I WANT TO SAY IS THAT THIS FILM IS BASICALLY ROOTED IN WHITE SUPREMACY AND CONTINUING THE STATUS QUO OF ERASING THE TRUE NATURE AND TRUE HISTORY OF OUR COUNTRY IN ORDER TO PERPETUATE MORE NUCLEAR VIOLENCE.

>> Antonia: THANK YOU FOR SHARING YOUR VIEWS ON THE MOVIE AND ALSO JUST GIVING US A LITTLE HISTORY OF THE IMPACTS OF NOT ONLY THE NAVAJO NATION BUT OTHER INDIGENOUS PEOPLE HERE AND AROUND THE WORLD.

AND BEFORE WE END OUR CONVERSATION, JUST A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE RADIATION EXPOSURE COMPENSATION ACT.

THIS IS SOMETHING THAT YOU'RE WATCHING.

>> Morgan: IN THE FILM, THEY LEAVE OUT A LOT OF THE HUMAN IMPACT.

SO, THE PEOPLE OF THE MARSHAL ISLANDS, WESTERN SHOSHONE, A LOT OF THE DIFFERENT STAGES OF THE BOMB, THE FILM DOES NOT INCLUDE ANY OF THE HUMAN IMPACT.

SO I DON'T KNOW IF YOU SAW THE FILM BUT THERE ARE THESE MARBLES THEY USE.

THEY PUT THEM IN A JAR TO CELEBRATE HOW MUCH PLUTONIUM WAS PRODUCED AT HANFORD.

SO, THEY HAVE LIKE -- I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WATCHED THE FILM, BUT THERE IS TWO GLASSES.

SO IN ONE GLASS THEY PUT A MARBLE IN FOR HOW MUCH URANIUM THEY PRODUCED.

IN ANOTHER JAR, THEY PUT IN A MARBLE FOR HOW MUCH PLUTONIUM THEY PRODUCED.

WHEN THEY WERE DROPPING IN THOSE MARBLES AND ALL THE ACTORS WERE CELEBRATING, TO ME, THAT WAS REPRESENTING -- IF YOU KNOW HOW MUCH URANIUM IT TAKES JUST TO PRODUCE ONE LITTLE MARBLE OR MAYBE ONE LITTLE PELLET THAT IS A NUCLEAR FUEL ROD, THE AMOUNT OF URANIUM IS HUGE.

TO GET THAT MUCH URANIUM, THERE IS PROBABLY THOUSANDS OF TONS OF RADIOACTIVE WASTE LEFT BEHIND AT THE MINE SITE, CONTAMINATED WATER THEY USED TO PROCESS THAT URANIUM AT THE MILL SITE.

ALL OF THAT CONTAMINATION THAT IS ERASED.

I CAN SEE IT IN THOSE LITTLE MARBLES ALL OF THAT SUFFERING, ALL OF THAT CANCER, AND THOSE PEOPLE WERE NEVER COMPENSATED.

THAT IS WHAT WAS LEFT OUT OF THE MOVIE.

I MEAN PEOPLE JUST SEE MARBLES BECAUSE THEY ARE PROBABLY MADE OF GLASS BUT THE REALITY IS, THOSE ARE PEOPLES' LIVES, THOSE ARE OUR FAMILIES IN NEW MEXICO.

THAT IS HOW MANY DEATHS THAT WERE NOT ACCOUNTED FOR.

RIGHT NOW THERE IS THIS THING CALLED THE RADIATION EXPOSURE COMPENSATION ACT.

IN NEW MEXICO, LIKE I SAID, WE HAVE SEVERAL FACILITIES.

THERE WAS SO MANY NUCLEAR FACILITIES.

WE ARE A NUCLEAR STATE, NOT JUST THE URANIUM MINING AND ENRICHMENT I MENTIONED BUT WHAT IS HAPPENING NOW IN THE WORLD, THEY ARE LOOKING AT DEVELOPING MORE NUCLEAR POWER BECAUSE THEY ARE SAYING IT IS GOING TO SAVE US FROM CLIMATE CHANGE.

AND THEN AT LOS ALAMOS NATIONAL LABS, THEY WANT TO INCREASE THE PLUTONIUM PITS.

SO ALL OF THESE THINGS COLLECTIVELY, IT IS FUNNY TO TALK ABOUT CLEANUP, AND IT IS FUNNY TO TALK ABOUT RECA, BECAUSE RECA IS JUST A LITTLE BAND-AID ON THIS HUGE PROBLEM THAT THE UNITED STATES NEEDS TO STOP CREATING.

SO RECA, THE RADIATION EXPOSURE COMPENSATION ACT IS A FUND THAT WAS CREATED SPECIFICALLY FOR PEOPLE WHO WERE IMPACTED BY THE NUCLEAR WEAPONS DEVELOPMENT.

IT INCLUDES SOME PEOPLE THAT ARE ELIGIBLE FOR IT AND THERE IS A LOT OF CRITERIA TO APPLY FOR THIS FUND.

SO DINÉ PEOPLE AND OTHER PEOPLE WHO WERE MINERS OR IMPACTED CAN APPLY FOR THIS FUND.

HOWEVER IT WAS GOING TO SUNSET LAST YEAR.

SO IT IS AN INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT THING FOR NOT JUST DINÉ PEOPLE BUT PEOPLE DOWN WIND OF THE TRINITY SITE AND THEN ALSO PEOPLE WHO WORKED AS URANIUM MINERS AFTER 1971 BECAUSE THESE PEOPLE WERE NOT INCLUDED IN THE FIRST RECA LAW.

RIGHT NOW RECA WAS SUPPOSED TO SUNSET LAST YEAR AND BECAUSE OF THE TULAROSA DOWN WINDERS CONSORTIUM WORK, DOWN WINDERS AND OTHERS, NAVAJO NATION, A LOT OF ENTITIES WORKED TOGETHER TO EXTEND RECA BUT THERE WAS ONLY A TWO-YEAR EXTENSION.

SO RIGHT NOW THERE IS A PROPOSAL TO EXTEND IT FOR 19 YEARS WHICH IS GREAT.

IT SHOULD BE EXTENDED IN PERPETUITY BUT THIS EXTENSION WILL INCLUDE RECOGNITION FOR THE DOWN WINDERS OF THE FIRST ATOMIC BLAST AS WELL AS OTHERS NOT INCLUDED IN THE FIRST RECA PACKAGE.

AND RIGHT NOW IT IS ONLY AN AMENDMENT IN THE DEFENSE AUTHORIZATION BILL SO THE SENATE HAS PASSED THIS RECA AMENDMENT WHICH IS GREAT.

THIS IS THE FURTHEST ALONG THAT RECA FOR THIS PARTICULAR EXPANSION.

HOWEVER THE HOUSE NEEDS TO PUT THE SAME CONDITIONS IN THIS DEFENSE AUTHORIZATION BILL IN ORDER TO SEE IT PASS THROUGH CONGRESS AND SO IT IS A GOOD TIME IF PEOPLE ARE HOPING TO GET THIS COMPENSATION OR WANT TO SEE THAT THIS COMPENSATION IS PASSED THIS WOULD BE A GOOD TIME FOR ANYBODY WHO IS CONCERNED TO REACH OUT AND TALK TO THEIR ELECTED OFFICIALS IN CONGRESS.

>> Antonia: THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US HERE TODAY ON NEW MEXICO PBS.

>> Morgan: THANK YOU, ANTONIA FOR COVERING THIS IMPORTANT TOPIC.

>> Lou: THANK YOU ANTONIA AND LEONA FOR THAT IMPORTANT CONVERSATION.

THIS JUNE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT FORMALLY ANNOUNCED PROTECTIONS FOR CHACO NATIONAL HISTORICAL PARK AND A 10-MILE BUFFER SURROUNDING IT.

THE CHANGE ENDS FUTURE OIL AND GAS DEVELOPMENTS ON FEDERAL LAND IN THE AREA, BUT INDUSTRIALIZATION IS MOVING FORWARD DIRECTLY NEARBY.

IN A SEGMENT WE FIRST AIRED IN DECEMBER, OUR LAND SENIOR PRODUCER LAURA PASKUS AND MIKE EISENFELD OF THE SAN JUAN CITIZENS ALLIANCE HIGHLIGHTS HOW THESE IMPACTS ARE IMPACTING THE LANDSCAPE AND THE COMMUNITIES WHO RELY ON IT.

>> Laura: AS PART OF OUR SERIES ABOUT THE GREATER CHACO LANDSCAPE WE HAVE SHARED INTERVIEWS WITH PUEBLO OF ACOMA, THERESA PASQUAL, AND MARIO ATENCIO, WITH DINÉ CARE.

NOW WE BRING YOU OUT INTO THE FIELD WITH MIKE EISENFELD WITH SAN JUAN CITIZENS ALLIANCE TO SHOW YOU SOME OF THE ENERGY DEVELOPMENT IN NORTHWESTERN NEW MEXICO.

OF COURSE, A PORTION OF CHACO CANYON AND SOME ARCHEOLOGICAL SITES ARE PROTECTED WITHIN THE NATIONAL PARK.

BUT EISENFELD SHOWED US AROUND A VAST AREA OUTSIDE THE PARK BOUNDARY.

AS HE EXPLAINED TO US TECHNOLOGICAL CHANGES, ESPECIALLY WITH WHAT IS CALLED HORIZONTAL DRILLING, PEAKED INTEREST IN THE SOUTHERN SAN JUAN BASIN BEGINNING AROUND 2010.

SINCE THEN HUNDREDS OF NEW WELLS HAVE BEEN DRILLED AND THERE ARE PLANS FOR THOUSANDS.

YET FOR MORE THAN A DECADE NOW THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS CONTINUED TO CONSIDER THAT DEVELOPMENT EXPLORATORY.

SAN JUAN CITIZENS ALLIANCE AND OTHER GROUPS TOO HAVE CONTINUED TO ASK THE U.S. GOVERNMENT TO STUDY DRILLINGS IMPACTS MORE DEEPLY AND UPDATE MANAGEMENT PLANS FOR NORTHWESTERN NEW MEXICO.

UNDER THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF INTERIOR HAS TALKED ABOUT AN HONORING CHACO INITIATIVE WHICH FOCUSES ON HOW TO PROTECT CHACO CULTURE NATIONAL HISTORIC PARK AND A 10-MILE BUFFER AROUND THE PARK.

BUT AS EISENFELD SHOWS US THERE IS SO MUCH MORE TO THE GREATER CHACO LANDSCAPE THAN JUST THE NATIONAL PARK AND THERE IS ALSO A LOT MORE DEVELOPMENT OUT THERE THAN MANY NEW MEXICANS MIGHT REALIZE.

>> Eisenfeld: WHERE I LIVE IN THE NORTHERN PART OF THE SAN JUAN BASIN KIND OF IN THE FARMINGTON AREA IT IS NOT UNUSUAL FOR THERE TO BE HISTORIC OR LEGACY WELLS AS MANY AS LIKE 25 PER SQUARE MILE.

BUT SOUTHERN SAN JUAN BASIN THAT ENCOMPASSES CHACO THEY NEVER REALLY THOUGHT THAT THERE WAS GOING TO BE HIGH PROBABILITY SO AROUND 2010 WAS REALLY SORT OF WHEN ALL OF A SUDDEN THERE IS THIS IDEA THERE WAS GOING TO BE A BOOM WITH SHALE THAT THEY COULD HORIZONTALLY DRILL.

AND SO IN THE MANCOS SHALE AND MANCOS GALLUP FORMATIONS KIND OF BECAME, AT THAT POINT, THE FOCUS IN AN EXPLORATION PHASE.

ONE OF OUR PRIMARY CONCERNS IS THAT THAT EXPLORATION ALL THE WAY TO 2022 HAS NEVER BEEN ASSESSED CUMULATIVELY, NEVER BEEN ASSESSED FOR DEVELOPMENT.

AND THERE IS ALL THESE OTHER ISSUES THAT ARE NOW PREVALENT IN 2022 THAT NEED TO BE PART OF THE MIX THAT ARE BEING IGNORED BY THE GOVERNMENT AGENCIES THAT HAVE A VESTED INTEREST IN APPROVING OIL AND GAS.

THAT IS AN OIL WELL THAT WAS DRILLED SIX OR SEVEN YEARS AGO AND WHAT YOU'RE SEEING ARE SORT OF LIKE OIL TANKS FOR COLLECTION OF THE OIL.

AND THEN THERE IS A COMPRESSOR ON IT WHICH HAS LIKE 24 HOURS OF NOISE TO PUSH PRODUCT INTO THE PIPELINES.

AND THERE IS PIPELINES OUT HERE.

SO, REALLY WHAT YOU GET IS AN INTERCONNECTED SYSTEM OF A BUNCH OF WELLS FEEDING INTO LARGE PIPELINES AND PIPELINES ALL GO TO LIKE THE 550 CORRIDOR AND THEN ARE GOING DOWN, I BELIEVE, TO ALBUQUERQUE AND THAT AREA.

STUFF LIKE THIS SHOULDN'T BE ALLOWED, LIKE SURFACE LINES THAT ARE HANGING ACROSS ARROYOS.

JUST SHOULDN'T BE ALLOWED TO HAPPEN.

IT IS UNACCEPTABLE FROM A HEALTH AND SAFETY PERSPECTIVE.

THERE IS A LOT OF IMPACTS.

FOR A WHILE, THEY WERE AFTER OIL SO THEY WERE FLARING THE NATURAL GAS INTO THE ATMOSPHERE.

THERE IS LOTS OF ORGANIC COMPOUNDS.

THERE IS BENZENE, TOLUENE, ETHYLENE, ETHYLBENZENE, XYLENE OFF OF THESE WELL PADS.

THERE IS NOISE IMPACTS.

THERE IS WATER -- THEY FIRST TOLD US THEY WERE GOING TO USE NITROGEN AS A FRACKING AGENT.

THIS IS FRACKING.

SO, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE GO, HEY WHEN FRACKING COMES TO YOUR COMMUNITY AND IT IS LIKE, WELL, THAT TRAIN LEFT THE STATION HERE IN THE SAN JUAN BASIN IN THE 1960'S.

I THINK THAT A LOT OF THESE LANDS, THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO BE MANAGED UNDER MULTIPLE USE.

AS YOU CAN SEE BEHIND US, THIS IS INCREDIBLE BADLANDS AREA THAT AT ONE POINT WAS CONSIDERED A SPECIALLY DESIGNATED AREA BY THE BUREAU OF LAND MANAGEMENT FOR PALEONTOLOGISTS, FOSSILS PROBABLY EVERYWHERE, LOTS OF PETRIFIED WOOD EVERYWHERE, BUT ALSO, JUST, YOU KNOW, THE CULTURAL VALUES OF THE GREATER CHACO LANDSCAPE WHICH HAS NEVER REALLY BEEN GIVEN THE VETTING THAT IT DESERVES.

INDUSTRIALIZATION OF THE LANDSCAPE IS INCOMPATIBLE WITH THE HONORING CHACO INITIATIVE AND WE ALSO GET INTO A BIG ARGUMENT WHERE PEOPLE ARE LIKE WHAT IS SO COMPELLING ABOUT THIS AREA?

THAT IS NOT FOR ME TO SAY.

I THINK THAT THERE IS BETTER PEOPLE TO TALK ABOUT THEIR CONNECTIVITY TO THE LAND BUT IT IS THE WHOLE LANDSCAPE.

IT IS NOT LIKE, YOU KNOW, I FOUND AN ARCHEOLOGICAL SITE OVER HERE.

THIS IS ALL PART OF KIND OF THE EXTENDED CHACO PHENOMENON.

AND I REALLY FEEL LIKE THAT SHOULD BE THE FOCUS OF THESE AGENCIES IS TO REALLY CONSIDER KIND OF THE LEGACY, LIKE, AND BECAUSE SO MUCH OF THE REST OF THE SAN JUAN BASIN HAS ALREADY BEEN DRILLED FOR OIL AND GAS, I FEEL LIKE THESE AREAS THAT ARE RELATIVITY PRISTINE SHOULD HAVE BEEN KEPT PRISTINE AND THAT SITES LIKE THIS HAVE IMPACTS THAT HAVE NOT BEEN EVALUATED.

SO UNTIL THEY ARE EVALUATED I THINK I AM GOING TO BE A BIT CONCERNED ABOUT THE ENTIRE PROCESS.

I GUESS PERMITTING NEEDED TO DO A WAY BETTER JOB WITH MAINTAINING ROADS AND MAINTAINING INFRASTRUCTURE, AND, THEN, THERE IS NOT A LOT OF MONEY GOING BACK INTO THESE COMMUNITIES.

THAT HAS TO CHANGE.

SHOULD HAVE BEEN A NATIONAL PARK, MAN.

>> Lou: THANK YOU TO LAURA AND MIKE EISENFELD FOR THAT CONVERSATION.

JUST A REMINDER, THAT PIECE FIRST AIRED IN DECEMBER AND THIS JUNE THE U.S.

INTERIOR DEPARTMENT FORMALLY INSTITUTED SOME PROTECTIONS FOR THE 10-MILE AREA SURROUNDING CHACO PARK.

YOU CAN WATCH ALL OF LAURA'S STORIES ON OIL AND GAS DEVELOPMENT IN THE GREATER CHACO LANDSCAPE RIGHT NOW ON THE PBS APP OR ON THE OUR LAND YOUTUBE PAGE.

NOW IT'S TIME TO WELCOME BACK EXECUTIVE PRODUCER JEFF PROCTOR ONCE AGAIN THIS WEEK TO TALK ABOUT FUTURE OF NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS AFTER LOSING OUR LONG-TIME HOST, GENE GRANT.

JEFF, GOOD TO BE WITH YOU ON CAMERA.

>> Jeff: GOOD TO BE WITH YOU TOO.

THE FIRST OF MANY TIMES, I WOULD IMAGINE.

>> Lou: HOPE SO.

OBVIOUSLY, GENE'S DEPARTURE IS A MASSIVE LOSS.

WE KNOW THAT.

HE CONTRIBUTED SO MUCH TO THIS STATION AND TO THE LARGER NEW MEXICO COMMUNITY DURING HIS 18 YEARS ON AIR.

IT REALLY HASN'T SUNK IN COMPLETELY YET, HAS IT?

>> Jeff: I DON'T THINK SO.

GENE GRANT HAS BEEN PART OF THE MEDIA LANDSCAPE HERE SINCE I WAS A BABY JOURNALIST.

I FIRST MET HIM WHEN HE WAS STILL WRITING A COLUMN AT ALBUQUERQUE TRIBUNE.

LATER ON HE WENT ON TO WRITE A COLUMN AT THE ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL WHEN I WAS WORKING THERE, AND, OF COURSE, I WAS A GUEST ON THIS SHOW AND SOMETIMES CORRESPONDENT ON THE SHOW FOR A LONG TIME BEFORE I CAME TO WORK HERE.

SO, GENE HAS BEEN THIS SORT OF OMNIPRESENT GUY IN THE MIX IN JOURNALISM HERE FOR A REALLY LONG TIME.

IT IS GOING TO BE REALLY DIFFICULT TO IMAGINE THIS SHOW OR KIND OF OUR PROFESSION, OUR INDUSTRY IN THE STATE WITHOUT HIM.

>> Lou: YOU ARE RIGHT.

I MENTIONED THIS ON THE PODCAST, TOO, BUT, I MEAN, EVERY TIME I TALK ABOUT NMPBS OR BRING IT UP, THE FIRST THING I HEAR IS GENE GRANT, GENE GRANT AND I KNOW THAT IS NOT GOING AWAY ANY TIME SOON AND THERE IS NO REPLACING HIM, BUT FOR THAT REASON WE ARE GOING TO MAKE SOME STRUCTURAL CHANGES TO HOW WE PRESENT THE SHOW.

>> Jeff: YEAH.

SO, A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT.

THE FIRST THING I WANT TO SAY IS JUST TO ACKNOWLEDGE WHAT GENE DID SO WELL, RIGHT.

HE CAME FROM THAT LIKE TALK RADIO TRADITION HE WAS SO GOOD AT LIKE KITCHEN TABLE CONVERSATIONS.

LET'S GET TOGETHER AND SORT OUT OUR DIFFERENCES.

HE WAS REALLY GOOD AT GETTING SOMEBODY TO HELP FORMULATE AN OPINION OUT LOUD.

HE REALLY KNEW WHEN TO INSERT HIS OWN AND WHEN NOT TO.

THAT SAID, I AM NOT SURE WE COULD DO WHAT HE DID WITHOUT HIM.

SO WE HAVE MADE A DECISION THAT WE ARE GOING TO FORMALLY END WHAT WE USED TO CALL THE LINE WHICH WAS THE OPINION PANEL THAT TOOK PLACE AT THIS TABLE WITH GENE HOSTING.

THAT WILL BE ONE STRUCTURAL CHANGE.

OF COURSE, THAT DOESN'T MEAN THERE WON'T BE PANEL DISCUSSIONS, CONVERSATIONS AROUND THIS TABLE, BUT I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS WE REALLY WANT TO DO, AND HAVE ALREADY STARTED TO DO, IS TO HAVE THOSE CONVERSATIONS BE A LITTLE LESS OPINION FOCUSED AND MORE FOCUSED AROUND SUBJECT MATTER EXPERTISE.

THAT IS ONE CHANGE WE STARTED TO MAKE THAT VIEWERS CAN EXPECT WILL CONTINUE.

>> Lou: I KNOW WE HAVE SOME OTHER NEW IDEAS AND CONCEPTS THAT WE ARE TRYING TO ROLL OUT HERE.

WHAT ELSE CAN VIEWERS EXPECT IN THE SHORT TERM?

>> Jeff: IN THE SHORT TERM FOR SURE, PEOPLE ARE GOING TO SEE A LOT OF FACES IN THE INTERVIEWER CHAIR AND IN THE CHAIR YOU'RE IN NOW.

I THINK THAT WE'LL SPREAD THE WEALTH AND TRY TO GET A VARIETY OF VOICES IN HERE IN TERMS OF JOURNALISTS WHO ARE PRODUCING THE SHOW THAT WE MAKE EVERY WEEK.

SO, I THINK YOU'LL PROBABLY SEE MORE ONE-ON-ONE INTERVIEWS, MORE ONE-ON-TWO INTERVIEWS AND PROBABLY SOME GUEST HOSTING, THINGS LIKE THAT, AND DEFINITELY THOSE ROUNDTABLE CONVERSATIONS THAT VIEWERS HAVE COME TO EXPECT FROM THIS SHOW WITH JUST A LITTLE BIT SHARPER FOCUS.

>> Lou: ENVIRONMENTAL JOURNALISM, OBVIOUSLY, IS A HUGE PART OF OUR COVERAGE WITH LAURA PASKUS' GREAT WORK OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS AND THAT IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE, IS IT?

>> Jeff: THE ONLY WAY I THINK IT IS GOING TO CHANGE IS TO CONTINUE TO GET BETTER, RIGHT, WHICH IS WHAT LAURA'S JOURNALISM HAS ALWAYS DONE.

WE HAVE BEEN FRIENDS AND I HAVE BEEN A FAN OF HER WORK FOR A LONG TIME.

I WANT TO MAKE THIS ONE SORT OF COMMENT ABOUT LAURA.

BILL GRAHAM, THE CONCERT PROMOTER USED TO SAY ABOUT THE GRATEFUL DEAD, THEY ARE NOT THE BEST AT WHAT THEY DO, THEY ARE THE ONLY ONES WHO DO WHAT THEY DO.

AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED THAT IS LAURA.

THERE ISN'T ANOTHER ONE OF THOSE IN THE COUNTRY.

>> Lou: YES.

WE SAW THAT RECENTLY WITH HER COVERAGE OF THE FIRE IN ALBUQUERQUE AT THAT PLASTICS FACILITY.

SHE WAS THE FIRST ONE ON THAT.

SOURCE NEW MEXICO HAS OBVIOUSLY DONE SOME GOOD WORK SINCE THEN AND WE HAVE AN EPISODE COMING UP NEXT WEEK, A SPECIAL EPISODE FROM LAURA.

>> Jeff: WE DO.

SO LAURA HAS BEEN REALLY INTERESTED FOR A LONG TIME IN A PRIVATE COMPANY CALLED HOLTEC.

THEY PLAN TO BASICALLY DUMP NUCLEAR WASTE INTO THE GROUND IN SOUTHEASTERN NEW MEXICO.

ONE OF THE BIG ADVOCATES IN THE STATE FOR THAT PROJECT IS A GUY NAMED JOHN EATON.

LAURA HAS BEEN TRYING TO TALK TO HIM FOR A REALLY LONG TIME.

HE AGREED TO A LENGTHY INTERVIEW WITH HER.

THE SHOW WILL BE SORT OF BUILT AROUND THAT WITH A NUMBER OF OTHER ELEMENTS.

AND VIEWERS CAN EXPECT THAT TO BE THE ROCK SOLID ACCOUNTABILITY AND EXPLANATORY JOURNALISM THAT LAURA'S HAS ALWAYS PRESENTED.

>> Lou: IT REALLY IS AN INTERESTING INTERVIEW AND, LIKE YOU SAID, NO ONE ELSE HAS SPOKEN TO THIS GUY YET SO WE ARE EXCITED TO SEE THAT AND WE HAVE ALL OBVIOUSLY GOTTEN TO KNOW LAURA AND HER WORK QUITE WELL OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS, BUT WHO ELSE CAN VIEWERS EXPECT TO SEE BRINGING NEW STORIES TO OUR AIR?

>> Jeff: WE'LL DEFINITELY BE LEANING ON THE CORRESPONDENTS WHO HAVE HELPED TO MAKE THIS SHOW AWESOME THROUGH THE YEARS.

THAT IS GOING TO INCLUDE ANTONIA GONZALES, RUSSELL CONTRERAS AND GWYNETH DOLAND.

YOU CAN EXPECT TO SEE SOME NEW FACES.

SINCE GENE'S ANNOUNCEMENT I HAVE CERTAINLY HAD A LOT OF PEOPLE EXPRESS INTEREST IN COMING IN TO HELP US, AT LEAST IN THE SHORT TERM.

WE DON'T HAVE A GREAT PICTURE OF WHAT THAT IS GOING TO LOOK LIKE YET, BUT AGAIN FOLKS CAN EXPECT TO SEE A LOT OF NEW FACES ON THE SHOW.

>> Lou: COMMUNITY COVERAGE, THAT HAS ALWAYS BEEN A MANDATE HERE AT NMPBS BUT WE REALLY WANT TO MAKE SURE THE SHOW FEELS LIKE IT IS ABOUT AND FOR ALL NEW MEXICANS TO MAKE SURE THEIR VOICES ARE HEARD.

HOW CAN WE DO THAT MORE EFFECTIVELY?

>> Jeff: THAT IS AN INTERNAL CONVERSATION.

OBVIOUSLY YOU AND I ARE TALKING ABOUT THAT ALL THE TIME.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THAT WITH OTHER FOLKS AT THE STATION.

WE ARE TALKING TO OUR SOURCES ABOUT THAT.

WE ARE TALKING TO OUR FRIENDS ABOUT THAT.

THAT SAID, I DON'T THINK WE HAVE THE MARKET CORNERED ON HOW TO EFFECTIVELY DO THAT.

SO, I AM GOING TO ASK THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE WATCHING THIS SHOW HELP US WITH THAT.

GIVE US A CALL, GIVE US AN EMAIL, COME BY THE STATION.

TELL US WHAT WE ARE DOING RIGHT, WHAT WE ARE DOING WRONG, WHAT YOU WANT THIS SHOW TO REFLECT.

THIS IS PUBLIC BROADCASTING AT THE END OF THE DAY, RIGHT?

IT DOESN'T BELONG TO US.

IT BELONGS TO THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN THIS STATE.

SO I AM HOPING THEY CAN HELP US CONTINUE THAT REAL FOCUS ON THE COMMUNITY.

>> Lou: PUBLIC BROADCASTING THING THAT IS SOMETHING GENE ALWAYS SAID AND I KNOW HE WAS REALLY GREAT WITH RESPONDING TO VIEWERS AND VIEWERS REACHING OUT TO HIM.

HE WOULD ALWAYS TALK ABOUT THAT.

WE DEFINITELY WANT TO ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO DO THAT AND TO EITHER JEFF OR I, REACH OUT, TELL US WHAT IS GOING ON.

WE ARE HAPPY TO COMMUNICATE WITH YOU GUYS AND TALK ABOUT THAT.

JEFF, THANKS SO MUCH.

LOOKING FORWARD TO THE FUTURE.

>> JEFF: YEAH, ME TOO.

THANKS LOU.