♪ ♪ ♪ >> The Reverend Jamar Boyd II discusses the future of the Black church in America from a millennial perspective.

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♪ ♪ >> I'm so pleased to welcome to "The Chavis Chronicles" the Reverend Jamar Boyd II.

And you're the Senior Manager for Organizational Impact at the Samuel DeWitt Proctor Conference.

Welcome.

>> Thank you.

I'm glad to be here.

>> So, listen, man, you were born in South Carolina but raised up in Georgia.

And now you find yourself in Chicago.

Samuel DeWitt Proctor Conference is based?

>> Yes, sir, we are headquartered in Chicago, but we are a national faith-based -- international faith-based organization committed to the African diaspora, but really through the work of the Black church, so centering the Black church, centering Black pastors, what it means to be Black liberation theologists and activists and agitators and actualizing the work of Christ.

We have a statement that we use, "With vision, by faith, through action."

And so we try to actualize that work and programmatic aspects, as well as through our annual conference that we host every year in February.

>> Well, man, I'm very pleased to see a young brother not only give theological education, but you're on the case.

You mentioned some big words there -- Black liberation Tell me more about the Samuel Proctor Conference.

>> Sure, so the Samuel Proctor Conference was founded in 2003. by Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr, Dr. Freddie Douglass Haynes, and Dr. Iva Carruthers, and really, Dr. Haynes and Dr. Wright convened it for the sake of getting Black pastors together to have a small space, a small gathering where they can talk about the issues and the concerns of pastors, and then also those pastors who are progressives, who are the more anomalies, if you will, within the Black church who affirm LGBTQIA clergy, affirm women, are creative in the ways in which they engage culture, society, and the Bible.

And I think Dr. Wright is our prime example of what it means to be that type of theologian, that type of pastor.

Dr. Haynes in his own right.

And so we encourage that in the Proctor Conference, but also try to be inter-generational in everything that we do, so from leadership to programming -- one of my favorite programs that we have within Proctor is two things, the Micah Fund, which is dedicated to clergy, specifically young clergy who have debt.

We give them a grant to go towards whatever they believe is most pertinent to them to do ministry successfully, as well as Calling Congregations, where we also give grants to various pastors and congregations to re-center the mission of their church.

Traditionally, in a Black church, mission is defined by the pulpit, but within Calling Congregations, we try to help pastors understand if you're to be African-centered, there is no such thing as a hierarchal structure, but it is communal, it is circular.

And so it takes the pew and the pulpit to work together to redefine the mission and the identity of the congregation.

And so that's just some of the work that we do within Proctor.

>> I want to ask you this question.

Do you see an affinity, an the Black church seriously in 2022?

>> Yes and no.

I think the first thing is the Black church has to take Black youth seriously and understanding that the way in which millennials or gen Z view the church is not the way that traditionally it has been viewed.

I think we've heard from protesters, from grassroots organizers, for the first time, the movement is not centered in the church -- >> Is that right?

>> ...and the church is not the center of the movement.

Instead, it is the people.

It is the folks who are centered and are redefining who the church is, what the church is, and how the church operates, and so it's understanding we can still have our institutions, we can still have our denominations, and instead of them being at the forefront, they can be beside, or they can be at the undergirding of young people who are trying to figure out if the church is not gonna take a progressive stance on human rights, on women's rights, on women's reproductive rights, on LGBTQIA matters, the people in the streets are.

The folks who are living with these conditions every day are.

And they, arguably, are the church.

They are doing the theological work that Jesus Christ commissioned us to do that the church is more hesitant to do for the sake of protecting and maintaining the institution.

And so the church has to figure out how serious they're gonna take this current moment and understand if you don't take it serious, there are two generations living within the church that are proving to you we can do this in the streets.

We can do this in our own communal sectors, if you will, where we still respect the church, we understand the spiritual need and commitment of the church, and we welcome it, but at the same time, the prejudices, the prohibitions, the exclusion, the sexism, seemingly is no longer gonna be tolerated, especially by gen Z, as we're seeing how inclusive and affirming of a generation that they are.

>> Do see some transformation of the Black church in America as a result of the inclusion of young ministers, male and female, like yourself?

>> I think so.

I think there are enough examples out there, but they are not getting the publicity that is warranted and that's needed to prove the fact that there are Black churches out here who are progressive, and when we say progressive, that's such a broad term.

>> Yeah, let's -- give me your definition of progressive.

>> So, when I say progressive, it is a socially conscious church and/or pastor who understands the correlation between the ministry of Jesus Christ and the present challenges and complexities that we live in, meaning this.

If Jesus is to go into the temple and overturn tables because they have misunderstood the law as it was prescribed, why aren't our churches doing the same thing when it comes to some of our institutional problems, our institutional doctrines and theologies, meaning is this -- and I may get in trouble for saying this, but I am a member of the church of God and Christ, and we do not ordain women, and we try to justify it by the virtue of scripture.

But there's not a single scripture in the Bible that can justify you prohibiting a woman from exercising her full call in ministry.

If you are to be a socially conscious, progressive church, then you understand the totality of all people being created in the image of God and being able to be used by God.

This generation is challenging those traditional positions of the church and is not taking scripture as the sole basis of justification, but are proved to me by one's experience, by one's identity that they aren't called by God because of their gender, their sexual identity, or orientation.

So that's what I mean by progressive.

>> Yes, there's a range of theological understanding from progressive to very conservative.

How do young people that you're in touch with at the Samuel Proctor Conference, how do you see this dichotomy of religion and social justice?

>> You know, I think the beautiful thing about Proctor, Proctor is a space of what we And so it is this ecumenical body of varied positions.

>> Different denominations?

>> Absolutely, different denominations, different political affiliations, different spaces on the theological spectrum, but within this generation, if you will, and I can't speak for everybody, but what we see in Proctor is the willingness to say, "I don't know.

Help me progress.

Help me learn, help me deconstruct," and I think that's one of the critical things that is needed in the church, is deconstruction, understanding that some of the stuff we were taught and raised with is what somebody else knew.

It was their own personal theological position, but it doesn't have to be that of yours, especially when you have internal convictions that go contrary to the public theology that you're confessing.

And that's the work of deconstruction, and Proctor encourages that, not for one -- "to be a heretic" or go down this line of disconnecting from Christianity, but figuring out, "How can I re-center Africa?

How can I re-center community in my theology?"

And if community is Africa and if the people are not at the center of my theology, then what am I really doing?

>> After the brutal murder of George Floyd, there was a resurgence of the Black Lives Matter movement.

And today, in many African-American, but also some white churches, you see signs in front of the church, "Black Lives Matter."

How does your job and what you do at the conference, how do you embrace or understand this phenomena called Black Lives Matter movement?

>> Well, I think Black Lives Matter movement is one of the most transformational movements of a generation.

Talking with Dr. Carruthers, who's our general secretary -- >> Dr. Iva Carruthers?

>> Dr. Iva Carruthers, you know, Black Lives Matter, I remember my undergrad journey at Georgia Southern University, and in 2015 when the University of Missouri had "Concerned Student 1950," which was more of the academic aspect of Black Lives Matter where we were -- those of us at PWI were challenging our administrations to look at the stats of your student enrollment compared to your faculty and your administrators.

At Georgia Southern, we had 26% of our student population was African American or people of color.

Only 7% of our faculty, of our greatest professors were Black.

And we came with a list of demands and protests and sit-ins and things of that nature, understanding that the way in which we agitate may differ from that of our elders, but the same strategies, the same techniques, the same intentionality can be brought to the table with adjustments, with pivots to meet the present moment.

And Black Lives Matter has brought that, and it has challenged even myself as a more old soul, if you will, in the tactics that are used.

Within the Proctor Conference, though, we see the challenges that are before us, but like yourself, an optimist to say these challenges are great moments of ingenuity and creativity and imagination for the church, but also for a generation to figure out where do we fit in?

What do we want to keep in this country, and then what are the absolute non-negotiables?

And Proctor allows that to happen within our conferences, within our cohort groups, with how we connect, and we are partner organizations with those in Black Lives Matter chapters.

We have a young lady who's in one of our cohorts who leads the George Floyd Foundation in Minnesota, in Minneapolis.

And so even she has brought to the table things that maybe we have not thought about at Proctor where the church could be more either active as advocates or as funders.

I think that's the other part of the church, the Black church specifically, has to figure out.

If your church contextually is not prepared to engage "movement politics," is not prepared to confront the realities of the time and the complexities, such as what we witnessed in the Senate where they voted down three times the John Lewis Voting Rights Act for the sake of the filibuster, every Black church in America should be speaking out to that today.

But if your church is not prepared to do that contextually, who in your community is, and how adjacent are you to them?

And if you're not, ask the question why, and I think, again, Black Lives Matter challenges us to do that.

I say to the end of that is Black Lives Matter has always existed, especially in the life of Proctor.

The ministry of Iva Carruthers, the ministry of Jeremiah Wright, from Cuba to Ghana to Chicago.

It's always existed, but it's just being defined differently in this present context.

>> So your generation, you're connecting those dots.

>> Yeah.

>> You're connecting those past interventions by leaders like Reverend Dr. Jeremiah Wright and others.

Do you envision a growing youth-led movement for social change, for racial justice, for environmental justice, for climate justice?

Speak to what some of the issues that drive and encourage young people to be involved in the movement as leaders.

>> Yeah, I think all of that what you've mentioned is ongoing.

I remember -- I believe it was either 2017 or 2018 when we came to D.C. for March for Our Lives with the young people from Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Florida.

>> Yes, it was about gun -- the issue of gun rights, gun control.

>> Absolutely, and you've seen more students, African-American students, young people, but specifically white students who understand our plight is totally different.

The reality we live in is not the world of African Americans and people of color.

And so that was a pivotal moment to see, okay, coalitions are needed.

Broad-based advocacy is needed.

But there are students who are committed to a myriad of topics and issues in the world.

change, to your point, is a critical issue right now.

But I think for African Americans, just -- there's a Howard Thurman quote in his book "Jesus and the Disinherited" where he talks about a more broader or bigger transcendent goal, that if the African American, if the disinherited can see themselves not as just trying to survive and not be killed, but can see themselves as patriot, meaning if you can see yourself as an American citizen, you're no longer just trying to survive and not be killed, but you understand there is a more transcended goal to being born and being a resident of this country.

I think that is what this generation's trying to figure out.

Are we still alien to the United States of America, or will the United States finally see us as American?

In that, you have these myriad of movements, and I think we have to be okay with accepting, as millennials, there's no one monolithic strategy to being free in America as Black or brown people.

There are always a myriad of strategies, but what we can't have is the contested tension that has existed for generations that prohibits us from getting laws passed, that prohibits us from seemingly deconstructing this country so that it can be reconstituted, and that almost allows us to seemingly go back into a period of reconstruction where we can say while this empire has its own structure for our prohibition, if you will, for our "enslavement" by its laws, by its practices, there is the possibility of a democracy within a democracy.

And what does that look like?

And that's my hope for millennials and gen Z, that we would press to work that more transcendent goal of what is a democracy within a democracy?

>> So the transcendent goal that you're articulating is multi-racial... >> Mm-hmm.

>> ...multi-cultural... >> Mm-hmm.

>> ...multi-lingual... >> Mm-hmm.

>> ...multi-dimensional.

What is your clarion call to other youth, not only to Black youth, but to all youth in America today?

>> Sure, I would say to your first one about Proctor.

Proctor is an NGO.

We are a nationally recognized organization within the United Nations, and we have stood for the people of Palestine and continue to do so.

We have stood on the floor of the UN and given reports on Hurricane Katrina and the impact that it had on New Orleans and the African-American community specifically, and where this country has failed as it relates to rights.

Just last year, we raised upwards of $50,000 for Jackson, Mississippi, when they went through a 20-day water crisis where they had no clean water.

And Proctor, along with Lott Carey, others was able to raise $50,000 within 48 hours.

>> Bishop Reid, that's the AME church?

>> Yes, sir.

And so it shows the broad reach of Proctor, but along with that, Proctor understands what it means to be a diasporic organization, to go to Ghana, to go to South Africa and have the critical relationship with Dr. Allan Boesak and his commitment of what he did with apartheid and Bishop Desmond Tutu.

So, from Chile to Venezuela to South America to Africa, Proctor understands.

>> So you're envisioning a global movement for change?

It's just not an American movement?

>> Absolutely.

If the diaspora is not centered in what we're doing, it's not a movement.

It's just us trying to survive in America.

But if we can get, to your latter question, on what do I see, if millennials, those who are 27 and older, gen Z, those who are 27 and younger, if we can get in our context and in our mind, our framing of this world, that it has to be a diasporic vision, it can no longer be a vision or an imagination that is solely centered on America.

But what does it profit us to be free here and you can't go back to Africa?

And when you do go back to Africa, you are witnessing your brothers and sisters live in poverty.

What does it mean to be free here and for us to have equitable education or economics, but if we go to Chile or Venezuela, we are witnessing people live in the crux of poverty, if you will.

To go to Haiti and know that they can't even have clean and running water.

If it's not an African-centered diasporic movement, we really are failing in our global vision.

>> What's been the response of youth in these countries, in Africa, in Latin America, in Haiti, you mentioned... >> Yeah.

>> ...the Caribbean?

What has been the response from youth to your vision?

>> I think if you look at Ferguson as a prime example of when protests -- >> Missouri, Missouri.

>> ...Ferguson, Missouri.

When protests were going on in Ferguson, it was youth in Palestine through Twitter that told Black folk how to engage tear gas.

Those are Palestinian young people teaching Black young people how to survive the brutality of an American police force that had sanctioned war on their own citizens.

You look at Chile, you look at China, they have showed us to to take the streets in democratic protests and in righteous agitation and indignation.

If enough of you will galvanize yourselves, if enough of you would take to the streets, you can see that, and I think even in Chicago a couple weeks ago, there are Black young people in middle school and high school who walked out in the middle of the day because they were dissatisfied with the city's response to COVID-19.

They were not gonna be in school unmasked, they were not gonna be in schools which HVAC systems weren't changed, and they were not gonna be in schools where the teachers had been advocating for their safety, but their public officials were committed to having them in the building.

Again, another commitment by young people proving to us where the church is not centered, where the church is not leading, but they themselves have said, "You know what, enough is enough.

And if the church won't agitate for us, if the church won't be at the forefront, we've got enough internal willpower, we've got enough collective commitment to do the necessary agitation," and there are numerous other examples of the same thing.

Even down, I think it was in Texas and in Florida, where students walked out by virtue of these critical race theory laws and these gun laws.

So the students are clearly leading it, and even myself as a millennial, having a brother who is a gen Z, who is 20 in college, getting ready to go into his senior year asking the same questions.

"What are y'all doing?

What are we supposed to do?

How can I cultivate some commitment to agitation and advocacy in my own life?"

>> So, that's very encouraging to hear that there are generations of young people... >> Yeah.

>> ...who are not just contemplating being active, but who are active, who are becoming activists while they're young.

I think that your generation, Jamar, Reverend Boyd, will have a lot to say about the future.

Are you in touch with mentors, elders give you advice?

of their elders?

>> I hope so.

I can't speak for all, but I hope so, and I think again, I'm an old soul, so I love talking to elders.

I'm blessed to still have an 85-year-old -- >> You're an old soul at 27?

>> At 27.

I was raised by two great-great-grandparents and a great-grandmother as my parents finished college, and my grandparents have been overly influential in my life.

So I've always had this inter-generational rearing.

And so I still have an 85-year-old great-grandmother living, where I seek her wisdom and that of other elders.

But to your question about elders, I think we're listening.

We lost Henry Mitchell recently.

We've lost Bishop Desmond Tutu recently.

We are losing elders quickly, and so I'm hoping that my colleagues and my peers, that those within my generation are taking the critical time to just sit down and have random conversation with elders and intentional conversations with elders to seek their wisdom, to get their knowledge, and to understand an elder's position is not gonna be yours because you have not lived through nor seen the things that our elders have seen.

You have not experienced the conditions that they have experienced.

But Mama Iva always talks about experiential wisdom.

The reality is even I at 27 may have some experiential wisdom that an elder may not have and vice versa.

And there's no point in competition, but it's taking that as a point of convergence to figure out, "Okay, where does your experience complement mine and what can I learn from you?"

>> What is your number-one recommendation for the youth of the world today?

>> Remain optimistic.

That's probably my biggest.

Remain optimistic.

It's easy to be apathetic.

It's easy to fall into the pessimism of this world, but remain optimistic -- we all have a vision for the world, a hope for the world, what it means to be free, to be fully free, about what it means to be Black and unapologetically Black, and apathy, if we're not careful, will diminish those hopes and those dreams.

So remain optimistic.

Amid everything else, remain optimistic.

>> The Reverend Jamar Boyd II, "The Chavis Chronicles."

>> Thank you.

>> Major funding for "The Chavis Chronicles" is provided by... Reynolds American, dedicated to building a better tomorrow for our employees and communities.

Reynolds stands against racism and discrimination in all forms and is committed to building a more diverse and inclusive workplace.

American Petroleum Institute -- through the core elements of API's Energy Excellence Program, our members are committed to accelerating safety, environmental and sustainability progress throughout the natural-gas and oil industry in the U.S. and around the world.

You can learn more at api.org/apiEnergyExcellence.

Over the next 10 years, Comcast is committing $1 billion to reach 50 million low-income Americans with the tools and resources they need to be ready for anything.

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