>> IT IS PERSONAL AND THAT'S WHAT I LIKE ABOUT IT.

I LIKE BEING BUSY.

MY NAME IS ANNA TAVERAS AND I AM A REGISTERED NURSE IN THE OPERATING ROOM.

I COME INTO WORK, CHECK THE BOARD AND SEE WHERE I AM HEADED.

VASCULAR NEUROLOGY, PEDIATRICS, WHATEVER IT IS, I JUST GO.

>> I FEEL LIKE THIS IS A GREAT PLACE TO WORK.

IT IS A LEARNING EXPERIENCE, YOU ARE ABLE TO GROW HERE.

♪ >> TONIGHT ON RHODE ISLAND PBS WEEKLY.

>> SYNAGOGUE IS A NATIONAL HISTORIC SITE AND A NATIONAL TREASURE.

IT IS ALSO THE FOCUS OF A BITTER DISPUTE.

>> YOU ARE TRYING TO EVICT THEM?

>> WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS HAVE A REGIME CHANGE AND THAT IS TRUE.

>> RABBI MARK AND HIS CONGREGATION JESUIT ISRAEL, IT IS AN UNSETTLING TIME.

HE HOPES HE WILL NOT HAVE TO LEAVE HIS CONGREGATION ON AN EXODUS.

IT IS THEIR WISDOM AND THE TOUR THAT HELPS YOU GET THROUGH THIS?

-- IN THE TORAH THAT HELPS YOU GET THROUGH THIS.

OF UNCERTAINTY?

>> THE TORAH HELPS ME EVERY DAY.

>> A TINY FRAGMENT WITH THE POTENTIAL TO TURN CHRISTIANITY ON ITS HEAD.

>> THERE IS THIS PUBLIC CONCEPTION OF CENTURIES OF TRADITION THAT JESUS WAS A CELIBATE ASHLAR.

IF YOU ASK PEOPLE ON THE STREET, THAT IS WHAT THEY WILL TELL YOU.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE NEW TESTAMENT ITSELF, IT DOES NOT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT WHETHER JESUS WAS MARRIED.

IT DOES NOT SAY HE WAS MARRIED BUT IT ALSO DOES NOT SAY HE WAS UNMARRIED.

>> GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO RHODE ISLAND PBS WEEKLY.

I AM PAMELA WATTS.

MICHELLE SAN GAIL IS ON MATERNITY LEAVE AND WE WANT TO WELCOME DAVID BRIGHT WHO WILL BE FILLING IN FOR HER.

WONDERFUL TO HAVE YOU HERE.

DAVID: DELIGHTED TO BE HERE, LOOKING FORWARD TO WORKING TOGETHER.

OUR FIRST STORY TONIGHT IS ABOUT A LONG-STANDING TUG-OF-WAR OVER A HISTORIC RHODE ISLAND BUILDING.

THE DISPUTE BETWEEN LANDLORD AND TENANT HAS GONE ALL THE WAY TO THE U.S. SUPREME COURT AND BACK.

IT'S AN AUTHORITY ISSUE BECAUSE THE BUILDING IS THE SYNAGOGUE IN NEWPORT, A SYMBOL OF THE OCEAN STATES LONG HERITAGE OF RELIGIOUS FREEDOM NOW THE ORTHODOX CONGREGATION THAT HAS WORSHIPED FOR MORE THAN 100 YEARS IS FACING EVICTION.

>> ALL RISE.

>> AND A NEWPORT COURTROOM, A REALISTIC BATTLE MAKING HISTORY.

AND HEADLINES.

HISTORY, BECAUSE OF THE BUILDING AT ISSUE.

THIS ONE, THE OLDEST SYNAGOGUE IN NORTH AMERICA, DEDICATED IN 1760 READ.

THIS SYNAGOGUE IS A NATIONAL HISTORIC SITE, A NATIONAL TREASURE, IT IS ALSO THE FOCUS OF A BITTER DISPUTE.

>> YOU'RE TRYING TO EVICT THEM?

>> WE NEED A REGIME CHANGE AND THAT IS TRUE.

>> LEWIS SOLOMON IS PRESIDENT OF CONGREGATION SHERIFF ISRAEL OF NEW YORK, THE OLDEST JEWISH CONGREGATION IN AMERICA.

THE TENANT FOR MORE THAN A CENTURY IS CONGREGATION JOSHUA ISRAEL OF NEWPORT.

LUIS IS THEIR PRESIDENT.

>> ISRAEL DID FOLLOW AN EVICTION ACTION AND IT WAS FILED TO EVICT CONGREGATION JESUIT ISRAEL.

DAVID: I SUPPOSE FAMILY FEUDS ARE INEVITABLE.

>> THAT IS A LOVELY WAY TO DESCRIBE IT.

DAVID: THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THESE TWO ORTHODOX CONGREGATIONS WAS FIRST FORMALIZED IN THIS LEASE SIGNED IN 1903.

THE ANNUAL RENT OF ONE DOLLAR DUE ON THE FIRST OF FEBRUARY.

FIVE GENERATIONS OF MICHAEL'S FAMILY HAVE WORSHIPED AT THIS SYNAGOGUE.

>> IT'S BEEN A CHALLENGING TIME FOR THE CONGREGATION IN TERMS OF THE EVICTION FILING AND SORT OF THE FEELING OF PERHAPS BEING THROWN OUT OF OUR RELIGIOUS HOME THAT WE HAVE OCCUPIED FOR 130 PLUS YEARS.

DAVID: TOURO SYNAGOGUE IS A TESTAMENT TO RHODE ISLAND'S COLONIAL HERITAGE AS A BASTION OF RELIGIOUS FREEDOM, PART OF ROGER WILLIAMS LEGACY.

ALSO A CENTURY LATER WHEN AMERICA'S RUNNING FATHERS WERE DEBATING THE BILL OF RIGHTS, IT WAS AN IMPORTANT REMINDER TO PROTECT RELIGIOUS LIBERTY.

GEORGE WASHINGTON VISITED NEWPORT IN 1790.

THE NEWPORT SYNAGOGUE WROTE TO HIM, THANKING GOD FOR CREATING A GOVERNMENT WHICH TO BIGOTRY IT GIVES NO SANCTION.

TO PERSECUTION NO ASSISTANCE.

IN HIS REPLY, WASHINGTON ECHOED THAT LANGUAGE, ADDING HIS OWN PREVENT WISH THAT JUICE SHOULD ENJOY CONTINUED PROSPERITY IN THE UNITED STATES.

-- THAT JEWS SHOULD ENJOY CONTINUED PROSPERITY.

>> AT THE END OF THE DAY, THE JEWS ARE NOT ABOUT PLACES, THEY ARE PEOPLE OF THE BOOK.

OUR PLACE IN JERUSALEM WAS BURNED DOWN.

IT WAS 2000 YEARS AGO.

WE HAVE BEEN WANDERING A WHOLE LOT SINCE, SO I DO NOT WANT TO OVERESTIMATE, OVERSTATE THE IMPORTANCE OF PLACE.

BUT IN THE HISTORY OF AMERICAN JUDAISM, IS A VERY IMPORTANT PLACE.

DAVID: THE BUILDING IS ARCHITECTURALLY SIGNIFICANT, DESIGNED BY PETER HARRISON, WHO IS CREDITED WITH BRINGING THE PALLADIAN STYLE TO THE COLONIES.

HIS OTHER PROJECTS INCLUDE THE REDWOOD LIBRARY IN NEWPORT, CHRIST CHURCH IN CAMBRIDGE, KINGS CHAPEL IN BOSTON, AND ST. PAUL'S CHAPEL IN LOWER MANHATTAN.

LIKE THOSE OTHER BUILDINGS, IT IS NOT JUST A MUSEUM, NOT JUST A PART OF THE PAST.

IT IS ALSO AN ACTIVE PLACE IN THE LOCAL COMMUNITY.

>> YES, IT IS A PETER HARRISON CLASSIC.

YES, IT IS WHERE THE WASHINGTON LETTER IS ASSOCIATED WITH, BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, IT IS INTEGRATED INTO THE HISTORY OF THE LOCAL NEWPORT JEWISH CONGREGATION AND MORE BROADLY, THE JEWISH RHODE ISLAND COMMUNITY.

DAVID: THAT RHODE ISLAND JEWISH COMMUNITY HAS HAD UPS AND DOWNS.

IN THE EARLY PART OF THE 19TH CENTURY, THE JEWISH POPULATION IN NEWPORT DOING THEIR -- DWINDLED AND EVENTUALLY DIED.

>> WHEN THE LAST PERSON LEFT, EVERYTHING WAS SENT TO SHERIFF ISRAEL AND IT WAS SENT THERE FOR SAFEKEEPING UNTIL A NEW COMMUNITY CAME BACK.

DAVID: THE NEWPORT BUILDING SAT EMPTY FOR DECADES.

A RELIC THAT INSPIRED THE TAUREAN POETS.

HENRY WADSWORTH LONGFELLOW WROTE THAT THE ANCIENT TOMBSTONES IN A'S JEWISH CEMETERY SEEMED LIKE THE TABLETS OF THE LAW THROWN DOWN AND BROKEN BY MOSES IN THE MOUNTAINS BASE.

THE SYNAGOGUE LAY OPEN FOR ABOUT 80 YEARS.

>> IN THE 18 80'S, NEWPORT HAD A JEWISH POPULATION THAT WAS LARGELY COMING FROM EASTERN EUROPE AND RUSSIA.

THE SYNAGOGUE WAS REOPENED THEN AND CONGREGATION JESUIT ISRAEL WAS ESTABLISHED IN 1894.

WE REALLY HAVE USED IT ALL THE TIME.

THERE ARE PEOPLE HERE WHO HAVE GROWN UP HERE, WHOSE GRANDPARENTS WORSHIPED HERE, LIKE MINE.

I WAS MARRIED IN THIS SYNAGOGUE.

I SIT WHERE MY MOTHER USED TO SIT, MY COUSIN RITA SITS NEXT TO ME.

SHE WAS THE FIRST WOMAN PRESIDENT OF THE CONGREGATION.

DAVID: BOTH SIDES AGREE IT IS REALLY OVER THE PAST 10 YEARS OR SO THAT THE RELATIONSHIP SOURED.

THE FEUD STARTED IN 2012, WHEN THE NEW PORTERS TRIED TO SELL A SET OF VALUABLE SILVER BELLS.

CAST BY A JEWISH COLONIAL SILVERSMITH, WHO WAS A CONTEMPORARY OF PAUL REVERE.

THE NEW YORKERS OBJECTED, THE NEW PORTERS PUSHED BACK.

>> IN THE PAST, PROBABLY STARTING ALL THE DISAGREEMENT BETWEEN THE TWO PARTIES WAS A RIGHTEOUS THING.

WE WERE LOOKING TO ENDOW IN PERPETUITY A LIVING, BREATHING CONGREGATION WITH A RABBI IN RESIDENCE.

DAVID: INSTEAD YOU WERE ACCUSED OF SELLING SOMETHING THAT DOES NOT LONG TWO.

>> CORRECT.

DAVID: CONGREGATION JESUIT ISRAEL BELIEVED IT HAD A LEGAL CLAIM TO THE BUILDING AND ITS CONTENTS.

>> WHEN THE BUILDING WAS BUILT, AT THAT TIME, CHURCHES AND SYNAGOGUES COULD NOT BE INCORPORATED, SO IN FACT, THERE ARE CHURCHES IN PROVIDENCE THAT ARE THIS WAY AS WELL.

SOMEBODY WOULD BUY THE LAND AND THEY WOULD TECHNICALLY OWN THE LAND.

AND THREE PEOPLE BOUGHT THE LAND FOR THIS IN THE LAST ONE WHO WAS LIVING, RIVERA, IN HIS WILL, SAID I GIVE THIS TO BE HELD IN TRUST FOR THE JEWISH SOCIETY OR HEBREW SOCIETY OF NEWPORT.

I HAVE FORGOTTEN WHICH ONE.

OR EVER.

DAVID: DOES THE HEBREW SOCIETY OF NEWPORT STILL EXIST?

>> WELL, IT DEPENDSON WHAT YOU THINK THAT IS.

DAVID: THE U.S. DISTRICT COURT IN RHODE ISLAND WAS SYMPATHETIC TO THE NEW PORTERS CLAIM.

BUT THAT DECISION DID NOT STAND UP ON APPEAL.

THE OPINION WRITTEN BY JUSTICE DAVID SOUTER, THE RETIRED FROM THE U.S. SUPREME COURT SHORTLY AFTER PRESIDENT OBAMA TOOK OFFICE.

AS A RETIRED JUSTICE, HE REGULARLY HEARS CASES BY DESIGNATION FOR THE FIRST CIRCUIT COURT OF APPEALS IN BOSTON.

IN AN OPINION HE WROTE FOR THE FIRST CIRCUIT IN 2016, JUSTICE SOUTER FOUND CONGREGATION JESUIT ISRAEL IS A HOLDOVER TENANT, ESSENTIALLY A TENANT WHO REMAINS ON A PROPERTY AFTER THE LEASE HAS EXPIRED.

THE LEGAL BATTLE OVER THE SYNAGOGUE WENT ALL THE WAY TO THE HIGHEST COURT IN THE LAND, THE U.S. SUPREME COURT.

THEY DECLINED TO HEAR THE CASE IN 2019, LEAVING INTACT JUSTICE SOUTER'S OPINION FOR THE COURT OF APPEALS, THAT THE NEW YORK CONGREGATION OWNS THE SYNAGOGUE AND THE NEWPORT CONGREGATION ARE MERELY TENANTS.

NOW, IT IS A LANDLORD-TENANT DISPUTE INCURRED HERE.

THE DISTRICT COURT IN NEWPORT.

IT'S NOT A SIMPLE DAVID VERSUS GOLIATH FIGHT.

THERE IS A LOT OF BAD BLOOD.

FOR INSTANCE, CONGREGATION JESUIT ISRAEL GAVE PERMISSION TO ONE OF ITS BENEFACTORS TO BE BURIED IN THE HISTORIC JEWISH CEMETERY.

WHICH HAS BEEN CLOSED FOR NEARLY 200 YEARS.

THE BENEFACTOR TOOK THEM UP ON IT A LOT SOONER THAN EXPECTED.

>> WE WERE AS SURPRISED AS SHERIFF ISRAEL WHEN THEY BROUGHT A CRANE AND LOWERED THE ACTUAL MONUMENT, NORMALLY THE GRAVESTONE DOES NOT GO IN UNTIL THE PERSON IS PASSED AWAY.

DAVID: HE IS STILL ALIVE.

>> YES AND WE HOPE YOU WILL NOT YOU NEED HIS GRAVESTONE FOR YEARS TO COME.

>> IT'S A SACRED PLACE AND I KNEW NOTHING ABOUT WHAT THEY WERE DOING THERE UNTIL I SAW SOME PICTURE THAT CAME OVER THE WIRE AND A CONGREGANT OF THEIRS CALLED ME AND SAID YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BELIEVE THIS.

THERE IS A CRANE AT THIS SACRED LITTLE CEMETERY AND THEY ARE PUTTING A NEW THING IN THERE.

DAVID: THE MONUMENT HAS SINCE BEEN REMOVED, BUT IN TERMS OF TRUST AND GOODWILL, DAMAGE DONE.

>> WE ARE GOING TO HAVE A NEW CONGREGATION IN NEWPORT RHODE ISLAND CONGREGATION.

WHO IS GOING TO BECOME THE NEW TENANTS, OK?

THE PEOPLE WHO ARE WORSHIPING THERE ARE GOING TO ALL REMAIN THE SAME, BUT THE RABBI IF HE WISHES, CAN STAY IF HE WISHES.

IF HE DOES NOT WANT TO, WE WILL FIND ANOTHER RABBI.

BUT THIS IDEA THAT YOUR LANDLORD KICKS YOU OUT AND SO YOU DON'T HAVE THE SPACE ANYMORE, THAT IS A MISNOMER.

THAT IS NOT WHAT IS HAPPENING.

WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT ARE A FEW PEOPLE WHO RUN JESUIT ISRAEL.

WE THINK THEY ARE NO LONGER DOING THAT IN THE BEST INTERESTS OF TOURO SYNAGOGUE.

DAVID: FROM A RHODE ISLAND STANDPOINT IT IS TEMPTING TO LOOK AT THIS AS HERE, YOU'VE GOT THIS GROUP THAT HAS BEEN IN PLACE FOR A GOOD LONG TIME.

MODEST LITTLE SYNAGOGUE, CONGREGATION WHO HAVE BEEN WORSHIPING IN THIS HISTORIC PLACE.

AND HERE, THE BIG BAD ABSENTEE LANDLORD IN NEW YORK COMING TO SWOOP IN AND TAKE THEM OUT.

IS THAT WRONG?

>> IT IS WRONG.

IT IS WRONG.

BUT THINK ABOUT IT IN A DIFFERENT WAY.

WHEN THERE WAS NOBODY HERE, WE TOOK CARE OF THE PLACE.

WE HAVE KEPT OUR STEWARDSHIP OVER THIS PLACE, SO THEY FEEL VERY CLOSE TO THE NEWPORT SYNAGOGUE.

WE RESPECT THAT.

WE ALSO FEEL VERY CLOSE TO IT AND WE ARE NOT GOING TO LET BAD THINGS HAPPEN TO IT BECAUSE A MINORITY OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE THERE WORSHIPING NOW DO NOT WANT TO ACTUALLY FOLLOW WHAT THE JUDGE SAID THREE YEARS AGO.

DAVID: RABBI MARK MANDEL AND HIS CONGREGATION, IT IS AN UNSETTLING TIME.

THE RABBI GAVE ME A TOUR OF THE HISTORIC SYNAGOGUE INCLUDING ITS MOST PRECIOUS TREASURE.

A 500-YEAR-OLD TORAH SCROLL WRITTEN ON DEERSKIN.

SO THIS IS OLDER THAN THE SYNAGOGUE?

>> OH YES, SOME HUNDRED YEARS.

DAVID: THEY KEEP IT OPEN TO THE PASSES ABOUT MOSES PARTING THE RED SEA DURING THE EXODUS.

THE CALLIGRAPHY THERE UNDERSCORING THAT MESSAGE.

>> THAT WAS SICK AND OCEAN SO TO SPEAK OF PEOPLE GOING IN BETWEEN.

DAVID: THE RABBI HOPES HE WILL NOT HAVE TO LEAVE HIS CONGREGATION ON AN EXODUS FROM TOURO SYNAGOGUE.

IS THERE WISDOM IN THE TORAH THAT HELP TO GET THROUGH THIS TIME OF UNCERTAINTY?

>> THERE IS ALWAYS WISDOM AND THE TORAH THAT HELPS ME EVERY DAY, GET ME THROUGH EVERYTHING.

DAVID: YOU HAVE FAITH QUESTION MARK >> YES, LIKE THE JUICE IN THE DESERT MADE IT TO THE PROMISED LAND THAT WE WILL BE ABLE TO DO THE SAME.

-- THE JEWS IN THE DESERT.

DAVID: THE LEADERS OF THE NEW YORK CONGREGATION HAVE INVITED MEMBERS TO CELEBRATE SHABBAT WITH THEM AND THEN THE TWO SIDES ARE DUE BACK IN COURT A 23RD.

PAMELA: THIS WEEK, PEOPLE OF THE JEWISH FAITH ARE CELEBRATE PASSOVER.

FOR CHRISTIANS IT IS A CELEBRATION OF THE RESURRECTION OF JESUS ON EASTER SUNDAY.

MOST OF WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT CHRIST COMES FROM THE FOUR GOSPELS.

BUT NINE YEARS AGO, A HARVARD PROFESSOR CALLS SOME OF THAT INTO QUESTION WITH THE DISCOVERY OF WHAT SHE SAID WAS AN ANCIENT PIECE OF TEXT, A PAPYRUS THAT SUGGESTED JESUS MAY HAVE BEEN.

TO MARY MAGDALENE.

>> I MEAN EVEN SYMBOLICALLY, IT IS FASCINATING, BECAUSE YOU HAVE HARVARD WHICH IS THE EMBODIMENT OF REASON WITH A R. IT IS THE RICHEST AND MOST POWERFUL UNIVERSITY IN THE WORLD.

DROPPING A BOMB AT THE DOORSTEP OF FAITH.

AT THE FOOT OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, WHICH IS THE RICHEST AND MOST POWERFUL RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATION IN THE WORLD.

PAMELA: A BOMBSHELL ANNOUNCEMENT IN 2012 THAT THREATENED TO SHAKE UP CHRISTIANITY AND THE ROLE OF WOMEN IN THE CHURCH.

WAS JESUS A MARRIED MAN?

AND DID A TATTERED FRAGMENT HOLDS THE ANSWER?

>> ON A TINY PIECE OF PAPYRUS, YOU HAVE THESE EXPLOSIVES ESSENTIALLY THAT THROW INTO DOUBT TWO CENTRAL TRADITIONS OF CATHOLICISM.

PAMELA: RE: SAVARD WAS THE ONLY JOURNALIST IN THE ROOM NINE YEARS AGO WHEN HARVARD DIVINITY SCHOOL PROFESSOR KAREN KING TOLD RELIGIOUS SCHOLARS WHAT SHE CLAIMED TO KNOW ABOUT THE PAPYRUS WHILE THEY WERE ATTENDING A CONFERENCE IN ROME.

>> SHE IS THE OLDEST ENDOWED PROFESSORSHIP IN NORTH AMERICA IN ANY SUBJECT.

VERY ESTEEMED AND SHE IS ABOUT TO TELL HER COLLEAGUES THAT ESSENTIALLY EVERYTHING THAT ANCIENT HISTORY HAS TOLD US ABOUT JESUS IS MARITAL STATUS MAY BE IN DOUBT.

PAMELA: KING, A HISTORIAN IN EARLY CHRISTIANITY, HAD IDENTIFIED A BUSINESS CARD SIZED FRAGMENT THAT SHE SAID ALLUDED TO JESUS HAVING A WIFE.

THE TINY SCRAP OF PAPYRUS WOULD MAKE HEADLINES AROUND THE WORLD.

INCLUDING THE FRONT PAGE OF BOSTON GLOBE AND THE NEW YORK TIMES.

MANY WERE LEFT WONDERING HAD PROFESSOR KING UNCOVERED A MISSING PIECE OF THE BIBLE?

>> AND THEN JESUS SAID TO HIS DISCIPLES MY WIFE.

IN THE NEXT SENTENCE HE SAYS SHE IS ABLE TO BE MY DISCIPLE.

PAMELA: KING SOON MADE THE MEDIA ROUNDS, EXPLAINING AS SHE WOULD MAINTAIN FOR THE NEXT FOUR YEARS, THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THE PAPYRUS.

IT WAS WRITTEN IN THE LANGUAGE OF EGYPT'S EARLY CHRISTIANS.

>> SO SHE PIECES TOGETHER THIS STORY AND THESE EIGHT LINES OF COPTIC AND IN HER TELLING, THIS IS A SCENE IN WHICH JESUS AND THE DISCIPLES ARE HAVING A DISCUSSION OVER THE QUALIFICATIONS OF MARY MAGDALENE TO BE HIS DISCIPLE.

PAMELA: IT ALSO MADE FOR LATE-NIGHT FODDER, EVEN AMONG PRACTICING CATHOLICS LIKE STEPHEN COLBERT.

>> HEY, WHAT A CATCH RATE LADIES?

HE IS SO HARD TO FIND A NICE JEWISH BOY, LET ALONE THE NICEST JEWISH BOY.

AND HIS DAD, SUPER WELL-CONNECTED.

HE KNOWS EVERYBODY.

PAMELA: THE VATICAN THOUGH IT WAS NOT LAUGHING.

THEY DISMISSED THE FRAGMENT AS A FORGERY AND WHILE PRIESTS WERE ALLOWED TO MARRY UP UNTIL THE 12TH-CENTURY, THEY SAY THE PAPYRUS CHALLENGE TO THE MODERN ENTRENCHED FRAMEWORK OF CATHOLICISM.

>> PRIESTS TAKE A VOW OF CHASTITY AND MAKE A PROMISE OF CELIBACY.

IN IMITATION OF A SUPPOSEDLY WIFE LIST JESUS.

THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH DOES NOT ORDAIN WOMEN PRIESTS BECAUSE IN THE VIEW OF THEOLOGIANS, JESUS NEVER CHOSE WOMEN FOR HIS INNERMOST CIRCLE.

PAMELA: KING CALLED IT THE GOSPEL OF JESUS HIS WIFE.

EVEN THOUGH SHE POINTED OUT THERE WAS NO HISTORICAL EVIDENCE OF A MARRIED JESUS.

>> KAREN KING WAS CAREFUL WHEN SHE WAS PRESENTING THIS TO THE MEDIA AND TO THE PUBLIC TO SAY THIS IS NOT BIOGRAPHY.

HOWEVER, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT STRUCK A LOT OF SCHOLARS AND ONE OF THE AREAS OF PUSHBACK IN THAT PRESENTATION IN ROME WHEN I WENT TO INTERVIEW SCHOLARS AFTERWARDS , WAS THE NAME SHE CHOSE.

THE GOSPEL OF JESUS WIFE.

AND IF YOUR IDEA IS YOU WANT TO THIS IN A NUANCED WAY, NOT TO SUGGEST THAT THE ACTUAL JESUS WAS MARRIED, WHY DO YOU CHOOSE A TITLE FOR IT THAT IS SORT OF READY-MADE FOR THE HEADLINES AND READY-MADE FOR HOLLYWOOD IN MANY WAYS?

PAMELA: THE TITLE WAS NOT THE ONLY SOURCE OF DOUBT.

THEY SAY KING SUMMONED A POWERFUL NARRATIVE FROM SOME 30 WORDS IN THE MIDDLE OF A RANDOM PAGE.

>> SO, YOU KNOW, THINK OF IT LIKE, YOU KNOW, EVERY SINGLE COPY OF HUCKLEBERRY FINN OR PRIDE AND PREJUDICE WERE RELEASED -- ERASED FROM HUMAN HISTORY AND THE ONLY THING THAT SURVIVED WAS A FRAGMENT OF TEXT CUT FROM THE CENTER OF SOME UNKNOWN PAGE.

HOW MUCH WERE YOU ABLE TO TELL ABOUT THE LARGER WORK?

PAMELA: IMPORTANT QUESTIONS ABOUT THE PAPYRUS AUTHENTICITY REMAINS.

RELIGIOUS SCHOLARS NOTICED THE COPTIC HANDWRITING WAS MESSY.

ODD TO MEDICAL ERRORS PLAYED TO THE TEXT.

PLUS, THE ORIGINS OF THE SO-CALLED PAPYRUS REMAINED A MYSTERY TO THE PUBLIC.

THEY INVESTIGATED AND FOUND IT WAS OWNED BY A MAN IN FLORIDA NAMED WALTER FRITZ.

THEN, NEARLY FOUR YEARS AFTER MAKING HER BIG ANNOUNCEMENT, KING MADE A GERMANIC SHIFT.

>> WELL, SHE AGREED THAT WHAT I DISCOVERED ABOUT WALTER FRITZ, COMBINED WITH ALL OF THE OTHER EVIDENCE, FARLEY TIPPED THE SCALES IN FAVOR OF BEING FORGERY.

ALL OF THE REST OF REVEALED HAD MOVED TO THE CAMP OF IT WAS FAKE, BUT IT WAS AN IMPORTANT MOMENT WHEN KAREN KING SAID OH GOSH, OK, I HAVE NO IDEA WHO THIS GUY WAS.

AND NOW PUTTING THIS TOGETHER WITH ALL OF THE OTHER EVIDENCE, THIS IS QUITE CLEARLY OR VERY PROBABLY A MODERN FORGERY.

PAMELA: IN HIS BOOK VERITAS, HE EXPLORES HOW A WORLD RENOWNED PROFESSOR WAS DUPED INTO BELIEVING THE DOCUMENT WAS AUTHENTIC.

>> THE THING ABOUT WALTER FRITZ IS HE IS VERY GOOD AT TRYING TO GET YOU TO BELIEVE THAT SOMETHING IS TRUE.

BUT THEN WHEN YOU ACTUALLY GO CHECK IT IN THE REAL WORLD, IT ALL FALLS TO PIECES.

WALTER FRITZ'S STORY HOLDS OUT AS LONG AS YOU DON'T CHECK IT.

AND THAT IS WHY KAREN KING WAS FULL.

PAMELA: IN VERITAS, PUBLISHED IN 2020, HE DIVES INTO FRITZ'S COMPLICATED PAST.

HE IS SEEN HERE IN THE LATE 80'S.

HE EXPLORES WHAT MAY HAVE MOTIVATED FRITZ TO GIVE PROFESSOR KING THE FORCED PAPYRUS.

SABAR LEARNED THAT FRITZ WAS AN INTERNET PORNOGRAPHER WHO FAKED HAVING A DEGREE IN EGYPTOLOGY -- EGYPTOLOGY FROM UNIVERSITY IN BERLIN.

IN REALITY, HE DROPPED OUT OF SCHOOL AFTER BEING ACCUSED OF PLAGIARIZING A PAPER.

>> THERE MIGHT ALSO BE A MOTIVATION OF A GENTLEMAN WHO BELIEVES HE IS SMARTER, ALWAYS DESERVED TO BE A GREAT EGYPTOLOGIST BUT WAS DENIED THAT OPPORTUNITY AND IS GOING TO SHOW UP THE FIELD WITH A FAKE THAT IS GOING TO DUPE THE SMARTEST PEOPLE IN THE FIELD.

PAMELA: FRITZ HAS DENIED FORGING THE GOSPEL OF JESUS WIFE.

PHIL, MANY RELIGIOUS SCHOLARS MAINTAIN THE PAPYRUS IS A FAKE.

DURING HIS REPORTING, HE LEARNED THAT KING INITIALLY SUSPECTED THE PAPYRUS WAS NOT AUTHENTIC.

>> SHE BASICALLY SAYS I DO NOT WANT TO TOUCH THIS THING.

AND THEN FOUR MONTHS LATER, THERE IS THIS 180 DEGREE TURN WHERE SHE COMPLETELY CHANGES HER MIND.

PAMELA: WHAT CHANGED DURING THOSE FOUR MONTHS?

HE FOUND OUT THAT THE THEN PRESIDENT OF HARVARD ANNOUNCED AN INVESTIGATION THAT THREATENED THE FUTURE OF THE DIVINITY SCHOOL.

TWO DAYS LATER, KING TOLD FRITZ SHE WANTED HIS PAPYRUS.

>> I ASKED HER TO COMMENT ON THE FINDING, TWO DAYS AFTER RECEIVING THE EMAIL, YOU'RE GOING TO GO UNDER A MICROSCOPE AND SHE GOES BACK TO A GENERAL AND SHE HAD WRITTEN OFF AND SAYS I WOULD LOVE TO PUBLISH YOUR PAPYRUS.

SHE NEVER RESPONDED TO THAT QUESTION.

PAMELA: WE HAVE REACHED OUT TO KING FOR COMMENT, BUT HAVE NOT HEARD BACK.

DO YOU BELIEVE DR. KING INTENTIONALLY MISLED THE PUBLIC ABOUT THE AUTHENTICITY OF THE PAPYRUS?

>> THAT IS A COMPLICATED QUESTION AND I THINK YOU SHOULD READ THE BOOK.

I THINK INTENTIONALLY, THE IDEA THAT I AM GOING TO -- I ABSOLUTELY KNOW THIS IS A FAKE AND I'M GOING TO SEE IF I CAN FULLY BUDDY, I DON'T THINK I DO THINK SHE HAD SUBSTANTIAL DOUBTS ABOUT ITS AUTHENTICITY AND MY REPORTING SHOWS IN MY OPINION, SHE WAS WILLING TO SEE HOW FAR SHE COULD SORT OF PUSH THIS INTO THE PUBLIC SPHERE BEFORE SERIOUS QUESTIONS WERE RAISED ABOUT IT.

PAMELA: INCLUDING QUESTIONS BY SABAR.

WHY WAS KING ALLOWED TO PUBLISH AN ARTICLE IN THE HARVARD THEOLOGICAL REVIEW IN 2014 ABOUT THE PAPYRUS THAT DID NOT MEET THE JOURNALS REQUIREMENTS?

NEARLY EIGHT YEARS LATER, THE JOURNAL STILL HAS NOT RETRACTED THE ARTICLE.

WHEN WE REACHED OUT TO HARVARD FOR COMMENT, THE UNIVERSITY SENT US A 2016 STATEMENT, WHICH READS IN PART ACCEPTANCE OF AN ESSAY FOR PUBLICATION MEANS THAT IT HAS SUCCESSFULLY PASSED THE REVIEW PROCESS.

IT DOES NOT MEAN THAT THE JOURNAL AGREES WITH THE CLAIMS OF THE PAPER.

BUT IT DID NOT PASS PEER-REVIEWED.

>> WHY HASN'T THE HARVARD THEOLOGICAL REVIEW RETRACTED AN ARTICLE THAT FAILED PEER-REVIEWED, THAT RELIED ON FAKE EVIDENCE, THAT ITS OWN AUTHOR HAS DISTANCED HERSELF FROM?

AND THAT WAS ESSENTIALLY CO-AUTHORED BY SCIENTISTS WITH DEEP UNDISCLOSED CONFLICT OF INTEREST.

PAMELA: WHY WOULD A RESPECTED SCHOLAR RISK HER CAREER OVER A FRAGMENT FROM A MAN SHE DID NOT KNOW?

>> KAREN KING SAW THIS PAPYRUS AND SHE TOLD ME AS MUCH AND ONE OF OUR INTERVIEWS.

SHE SAID WHAT THIS PAPYRUS WILL DO IS TO SMALL -- IT'S TO SMILE TO SEE A WHOLE LOT, BUT WHAT THIS PAPYRUS WILL DO IS GET PEOPLE TALKING.

IT WILL START A DISCUSSION.

ABOUT WHAT WE THINK WE KNOW ABOUT EARLY CHRISTIANITY.

AND FOR HER, THAT WAS THE MOST I THINK IT WAS MORE IPORTANT THAN HER CAREER.

PAMELA: WHAT IS THE LARGER TAKEAWAY THAT YOU WANT PEOPLE TO GET FROM THIS BOOK?

>> TRUTH MATTERS, FACT MATTERS.

PAMELA: THE TRUTH ABOUT WHETHER JESUS WAS EVER MARRIED HAS BEEN THE STUFF OF HOLLYWOOD FOR MANY YEARS.

>> WHO IS SHE?

>> THAT'S MARY MAGDALENE.

>> THE PROSTITUTE?

>> SHE WAS NO SUCH THING.

SMEARED BY THE CHURCH IN 591.

MARY MADALENE WAS JESUS WIFE.

PAMELA: WHILE MOVIE DIRECTORS, WRITERS AND RELIGIOUS SCHOLARS CONTINUE TO ARGUE WHETHER JESUS WAS MARRIED, PUBLIC PERCEPTION THAT JESUS WAS A CELIBATE BACHELOR HAS REMAINED THE SAME FOR CENTURIES.

>> IF YOU ASK, THAT IS WITHOUT TELL YOU.

JESUS DID NOT HAVE A WIFE TO BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THE NEW TESTAMENT ITSELF, IT DOES NOT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT WHETHER JESUS WAS MARRIED.

IT DOES NOT SAY HE WAS MARRIED BUT IT ALSO DOES NOT SAY HE WAS UNMARRIED.

YOU ACTUALLY HAVE TO LOOK AT THE TEXT IN THE HISTORY AND ARGUE FROM IT.

OTHER PASSAGES OF THE NEW TESTAMENT USE METAPHOR TO TALK ABOUT THE CHURCH AS THE BRIDE OF JESUS.

WELL, IF THE CHURCH IS THE BRIDE OF JESUS, HOW COULD HE HAVE HAD AN EARTHLY LIFE IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.

ON THE OTHER HAND, PEOPLE SAY JESUS PROBABLY WAS MARRIED, THEY WILL SAY LOOK, JESUS WAS A JEW IN THE HEBREW BIBLE BLESSES MARRIAGE AND ORERS THE JUICE TO BE FRUITFUL AND MULTIPLY.

IT WAS STANDARD FOR EVERY JEWISH MALE, CERTAINLY JEWISH RABBI, TO HAVE BEEN MARRIED EVERYONE IN THAT DAY WAS.

SO IF JESUS WAS SUCH A STRIKING EXCEPTION TO THE RULE, WOULDN'T THE GOSPEL WRITERS HAVE MENTIONED IT?

WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN SUCH A DRAMATIC BREAK THAT SOMEONE WRITING THE TEXT OF THE NEW TESTAMENT WOULD HAVE SAID AND BY THE WAY, JESUS, UNLIKE THE REST OF THE JEWISH COMMUNITY, HE WAS UNMARRIED.

SO, THERE IS THIS REALLY SILENCE INTO WHICH AUTHORS, THEOLOGIANS, FILMMAKERS, AND EVEN FORGERS, HAVE INSERTED THEIR OWN VISION OF WHETHER JESUS WOULD HAVE BEEN MARRIED.

PAMELA: ONE OF THE QUESTIONS THAT READERS WILL ASK THEMSELVES AS THEY ARE READING YOUR BOOK IS ULTIMATELY, DOES IT MATTER WHETHER JESUS WAS CELIBATE?

>> I GET MATTERS.

I THINK IF YOU ASK SCHOLARS, THEY WILL SAY IT MATTERS FOR WHETHER -- WOMEN'S LEADERSHIP IN THE CHURCH.

CAN WOMEN BE ORDAINED PRIESTS IN THE CATHOLIC FAITH?

IT MATTERS FOR WHETHER SEXUALITY IS INHERENTLY SINFUL, WHETHER THE MERE ACT OR FEELINGS OF SEXUALITY ARE BY THEIR VERY NATURE SINFUL.

BECAUSE THERE'S BEEN A LONG TRADITION IN CHRISTIANITY OF SHAMING WOMEN EVEN FOR MAN'S DESIRE.

IT IS WOMEN'S FAULT THAT MEN STRAIGHT.

AND ALSO FOR THE ALL-MALE PRIESTHOOD.

IT HAS VERY MUCH RELEVANCE.

PAMELA: RHODE ISLAND PBS WEEKLY HAS MADE MULTIPLE REQUESTS TO WALTER FIRST FOR COMMENT.

WE'VE NOT RECEIVED A RESPONSE.

THAT IS OUR BROADCAST FOR THIS EVENING.

I AM HIM A WATCH.

DAVID: AND I'M DAVID WRIGHT.

WE WILL BE BACK NEXT WEEK FOR ANOTHER EDITION OF RHODE ISLAND PBS WEEKLY.

YOU CAN VISIT US ONLINE TO SEE ALL OF OUR STORIES AND PAST EPISODES AT RIPBS.ORG/WEEKLY OR LISTEN TO OUR PODCAST AVAILABLE ON ALL OF YOUR FAVORITE AUDIO STREAMING PLATFORMS.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

NIGHT.

♪ [CAPTIONING PERFORMED BY THE NATIONAL CAPTIONING INSTITUTE, WHICH IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ITS CAPTION CONTENT AND ACCURACY.

VISIT NCICAP.ORG]