>> I'm Lewis Howes, New York Times best-selling author and entrepreneur.

And welcome to "The School of Greatness," where we interview the most influential minds in the world to inspire you to live your best life today.

And in this episode, the legendary Rhonda Byrne is talking all about money -- how to manifest it, what's holding us back from making it, and what we can do to make more of it in our lives.

I'm so glad you're here today.

Now let's dive in and let the class begin.

♪♪ ♪♪ You have received so much celebration over the last 16 years since "The Secret" came out... >> Yeah.

>> ...but you've also had criticism of "The Secret" and what this is.

>> Yeah.

>> And so for people that don't know what "The Secret" is, if they didn't see our previous interview and this is their first time hearing about you, and it's their first time seeing what is the Law of Attraction and "The Secret"... >> Right.

>> ...can you explain what the Law of Attraction and manifesting actually is in simple terms?

Before we dive in deeper?

>> [ Chuckling ] Sure.

Gee, it'll be interesting to see what -- interesting to see how I describe it now after all these years.

Um... Basically, every -- not basically, actually a creator, and they are creating their life.

And we don't know -- for many of us, we did not know that that was the case, and we are creating our life through our thoughts.

So it's not that our thoughts are powerful, it's that we are powerful.

And so when we focus on a thought and we really hold that focus, that thought will manifest in our life.

And so we create our own life through our thoughts and through the mind.

The mind -- our mind is super, super, super powerful.

>> Mm.

>> Yeah.

>> For good or for worse.

>> Yes, so, for example, um, we can talk about what we want and we will manifest that, you know, and so some people, they just see the abundance in the world.

You know, that's all that they see.

They don't see any lack, they just see abundance.

And everything seems to go right for them.

Everything falls into place for them.

They invest in this, and it skyrockets.

And they -- they buy a house in this place, and that suburb goes crazy.

And it's like everything they touch turns to gold, but it's because they have the mindset that is toward wealth and abundance, and they don't have a mindset toward lack.

And we have a lack mindset when we say things like, "I'm broke.

I don't have enough."

>> This is fascinating, and I think it's interesting to talk about this when it comes to money, 'cause a lot of people, money is at the top of their mind.

I feel like health, love, and money.

>> Absolutely.

>> That's what they think about, and money is something that people want to attract and manifest more of.

It's one of the biggest problems of divorce.

It's one of the biggest pains for people, is not feeling like they have enough, or maybe they haven't navigated their spending habits correctly and they're overspending on things they don't need to spend on, whatever the reason is.

And I read this card.

This card is amazing.

It says, "Money doesn't bring happiness, but happiness brings money."

And it's such a simple concept that a lot of people don't apply to their life.

And there is evidence in the physical, real world and science that backs this.

There's different research studies that talk about when waiters or people in the service industry are happy.

Someone is carrying your luggage, someone that, you know, who is -- someone who's your waiter, and they are joyful, smiling, and bringing joy to your life.

They're happy, they get tipped more.

It is -- It happens.

>> Oh, yeah.

Of course.

>> You're going to get bigger tips when you're kind, happy and joyful.

It happens.

If you are negative and mean and late and -- and slow and frustrated, the customer will not reward you by treating them poor.

>> Oh, my God, that is a brilliant example.

I have never thought of that, but that is -- >> It's true.

>> That's brilliant.

>> I mean, you see this, and you see this.

You want to pay people more.

You want to give people -- I want to give people more when I'm going to the coffee shop and someone's just smiling.

"How is your day?

I hope you have a great day."

I want to give more -- >> And you know what's making you want to give more?

>> What?

>> Law of Attraction... >> Mm.

>> ...is making you want to give more.

>> This is the rest of the card.

"If you keep thinking that you need money, then you will keep attracting needing money.

You have to find a way of being happy now, of feeling good now, of being in joy now without the money because those great feelings are what attracts money."

And this is a game changer when it comes to money because I didn't feel like I had skills in order to make money.

I didn't think I had a hirable opportunity because I didn't feel smart from school.

So I had a program and a belief... >> Yeah.

>> "Who's gonna hire me?

How could I ever make any money?

What -- I don't have any skills that could make money."

That was the belief, the program.

>> Yep.

>> And then I just started saying, "I'm going to be happy and let that energy spread to whoever is around me," and money started to come my way, and it is a game changer.

People want to reward you.

They want to pay you.

They want to give you more when you are happy.

>> Yeah, and they want to help you, too, right?

>> They want you to win.

>> Yeah.

>> They want you to succeed because you're bringing something into their life that they want more of.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> Right?

>> Absolutely, absolutely.

>> I love this about money.

What else about money do you feel like people are missing when it comes to manifesting and the Law of Attraction?

>> One of the reasons people want money and, you know, they, um -- they say money isn't spiritual.

There isn't anything that's not spiritual.

You know, everything's spiritual and, um, um, but money is... People think they don't deserve it.

Like, for -- for example, there is all the money that everybody needs and wants waiting there for them.

And there's only one reason it's not in their lives, and that's because they're stopping it from coming into their life.

>> Really?

>> Oh, yeah.

>> How are we stopping it?

>> [ Chuckling ] By thinking we don't have enough.

>> Right.

By thinking we don't have enough.

By thinking we don't deserve it.

By maybe being programmed the way you were, that, "My family didn't have very much.

You know, I'm destined to not have very much," kind of "born on the wrong side of the tracks" kind of thing or, uh, all of those thoughts.

To believe that we only get money through our job.

If you believe that that's the only way you're going to get money, that's the only way that you're going to get money.

But you can get money from unbelievable, unlimited different ways.

>> Yes, yes.

>> And so you start to open up your mind, that money can come from anywhere.

Everywhere.

Right?

And so money can come into your life.

So straight away, you open up.

Because Law of Attraction can only do what you believe, and so if you believe you only get money from your job, you -- see what we do?

We are unlimited beings, and we limit ourselves down to nothing, down to -- we are unlimited.

Unlimited.

The world and all of its riches and joys is all of ours.

And so -- but we, through our beliefs, you know, "For this reason, I don't deserve it.

I don't deserve it 'cause I didn't work hard enough.

I need to work harder to get this," you know, or, "I need to suffer.

You know, I know that people, you know, have money.

They had to suffer."

So we have all of these limitations that we impose on this unlimited being that we are.

>> Mm.

Yes.

>> [ Chuckles ] >> Why does it seem like money is one of the hardest things to break through when it comes to believing we are deserving of money and believing that it comes to us effortlessly.

Why does it seem like it's so challenging for a lot of the world?

>> I think -- I think it is to do with our deservability that we -- I just think that's ingrown into us, that, um -- what about all the things -- "money doesn't grow on trees," you know, or, you know, "I can't afford it."

I mean, I came from a really humble background.

My parents could not afford -- you know, we had secondhand clothes, so I had a whole lot of lack fed to me, um, just by my day-to-day living as -- as a child and growing up.

I didn't ever feel that, but I certainly grew up with lack, because I knew when I discovered "The Secret," I had to turn my mindset from lack to a wealth mindset, to an abundance mindset.

And so I set about to do that.

And that's why I know anyone can do it, because I did it.

>> What was that process for you of turning it from lack into abundance?

>> It was all affirmations.

It was all -- I played affirmations, gratitude, being grateful for everything I had, affirmations to -- to talk about the, you know, what -- that, um -- that I'm wealthy already, you know, affirming that I have plenty of money, that, um, I attract whatever I need, and, you know, I'm -- I'm a success with everything I touch and, you know, all those -- all those kinds of affirmations.

So I did those, I did gratitude, and anything that gave me a bad feeling around money, I reversed it, and one of those things was paying bills.

Why?

Because you never have enough money to pay the bills, right?

>> Right, right.

So how did you reverse that?

When bills would come your way, what were you doing?

>> I pretended they were checks.

>> When it was a bill.

And so what would you think and feel when you see it?

>> So back then, I would open the mail... >> Right.

>> ...where it was, like, all these window-faced envelopes... >> [ Laughs ] >> ...and I would open the mail and, like, "Oh, my gosh."

I didn't have any way to pay all of these bills.

>> It was, like, a dread feeling.

>> Oh, horrible.

My stomach would just, rah, to my knees.

So for everybody, I have been there.

I have done it.

I know how you feel if you're struggling with money, and I can tell you, you don't have to live your life like that.

You really don't.

Um, and so I would just -- I played games because Law of Attraction doesn't know if you're imagining something or if it's real.

Doesn't know.

Doesn't care.

>> Doesn't have an opinion.

>> Doesn't have an opinion at all.

And so I would play these games where I would open it up, I would -- and, you know -- and maybe it was like $1,200 or something, and I would be like, "Whoa."

>> You'd be excited.

>> Oh, yeah, I'd be excited.

"Oh, $1,200."

And I'd write it down and I'd tally up the amounts of money that I got for that day.

And it got to a point where I didn't feel I was getting enough.

Like it was -- >> Come on.

>> So I would add zeros.

>> Come on.

>> So the $1,200, I would turn into $12,000, and then I would add zeros.

And then I would say, "Yes, $150,000 is mine today," you know?

>> But it was really bills.

>> Yeah, they were really bills.

>> Oh, my goodness.

>> And so I would play that game so I would feel better.

And then I would pay what I could.

But do you know, when I paid, I would do something else.

I played another game.

>> Tell me.

>> When I paid, I would imagine that this money is not a bill, but I'm donating to the company, I'm making a donation because this company has been really great in supplying me with electricity, and so I'm making a donation, and this money is going to help all of the people, educate their children.

>> Wow.

>> It's going to help them buy food this week.

It's going to pay their mortgage.

So I would think about all of the employees that -- and the difference this money would make by giving this money.

And so that would cause >> Wow.

>> Right?

A total meltdown.

And that's how I -- that was how I did it.

So I took the circumstances where I didn't feel good about money.

Now, back then, we got bank statements.

They were not pretty, right?

But I changed that around.

>> Really.

>> Just with a bit of marker.

[ Both laugh ] I would just put -- and I had credit cards 'cause I -- I -- in making "The Secret," I kept borrowing on the credit cards to make the documentary.

They were at the max, at the max, and I had two credit cards, and they were at the absolute max for amounts of money that was inconceivable to me.

>> Right.

>> And that I had no -- absolutely no way of paying.

>> Of paying it off, yeah.

>> No, but, um -- but what I did was I just, uh, yeah, added -- I just pretended that -- when I got the statements, I would just pretend that I had -- do you know what I did?

I did zero, zero, zero, zero, and then I put "thank you" over the bill, and now I have zero, zero, zero, zero on my credit cards.

>> Wow.

>> But to this day, to this day, if I have a written bill or something, like, if somebody comes to do a service at the house, and I write them a check and I cross that bill, I would write, "Thank you.

Paid," because that is what I did with every bill I couldn't pay, I put, "Thank you.

Paid."

>> Wow.

>> And to this day, I still write, "Thank you.

Paid."

>> Wow.

>> I know.

>> Now, for people that are watching or listening or thinking, this is a beautiful, you know, thing to try and to do, but if they still have to pay the bills and they're like, "Well, how far can I take this until I'm like -- the money is, you know, stacking up or the bills are stacking up where I'm like, I don't go back into overwhelm or stress that I haven't paid off these bills?"

>> You have to pay what you can.

Like, what I did was I -- I would play that game and then I would pay what I could.

And I think even these days, companies are a lot more understanding than they were back then, you know, and they would say, "If you ring us, we'll work out a payment plan with you and whatever," but I did pay those bills.

I would pay the most urgent ones, like electricity 'cause I didn't want that to be cut off, right?

And so, yeah, you -- you do pay them, um, but I would just do things to feel better about money.

>> I -- and I think that is the thing I want people to take away from this story is the -- the play nature that you had with it -- where there's a lot of stress and overwhelm around money for so many people... >> Yeah.

>> ...but -- which was the same for you for a long time until you started to play.

>> I did.

I played all the time.

Nonstop.

>> And that is a huge key... >> Huge.

>> ...to "The Secret" is being in a playful, energetic state, right?

>> Yeah, yeah.

Like, I did this list of desires.

I -- I had -- all these credit cards they held, I overdraft on my company, I had mortgaged my -- mortgaged my home to the hilt, all, like, making the documentary.

And I wrote out this desire list of all of the desires that I wanted and all of the things.

It looked like -- I looked like a mad woman, right?

Like, I'm writing, you know, the car that I wanted and the house that I wanted overlooking the ocean and all of these different things.

Absolutely every one of those things on that list manifested.

And that's something else, too, that I think -- >> It all manifested?

>> Every one.

>> A desires list.

Is there a specific way -- sorry to interrupt you there, but is there a specific way to create a desires list so that they all manifest?

>> Easy.

Just write down the things you really, really, really want.

>> And there's the -- do you need to have a reason why you want them, or is it -- >> Law of Attraction doesn't care what your reason is.

Doesn't care.

>> Is there a way to write it down or saying, "I desire," or, "I want this," or just -- >> No, I just did a list.

I just did this list, and I would keep adding to it.

But I did a top 10, and I got everything on the list, and the last thing on the list was to go to Bora Bora in Tahiti.

>> And you went?

>> Yeah, to stay in one of those things on the water.

You know, one of the huts on the water.

And I'd always wanted to go there and, uh -- and you got a small plane, you know, light plane to go there.

And I can't remember if I was going or if I was returning.

No, I was going, and the plane stopped.

It -- I thought it was an unscheduled stop, but anyway, it stopped.

I think I was the only person in the plane, and it filled with Tahitians.

And they were incredible.

Suddenly, the plane just became alive, and they were laughing and talking.

They were all these workers, and they're laughing and talking.

And I sat there, and I just had tears... >> Wow.

>> ...of the beauty of them and the happiness from them.

And then I realized this was the last desire on my list.

>> Mm.

>> And I'm in this plane with all of these people so happy, so joyful, saying, "This is the way to live your life.

Be happy," 'cause do you know we will find a million excuses not to be happy?

>> Mm-hmm.

>> You know, I'll be happy when I'll be -- I'll be happy when I have more money, be happy when I feel better, be happy when I get that job, be happy when I meet someone, I'm not on my own anymore."

[ Chuckles ] And you have to be happy before.

>> I know.

>> Yeah.

>> You were just talking about joy and how much joy you had in that plane with all those individuals there.

This one is about jumping for joy.

It says, "Jump for joy.

You can lift your frequency, accelerate manifestation, and change your whole life with this powerful visualization technique that can be done in less than 30 seconds.

Imagine that you just received your desire and see yourself jumping for joy."

>> Yeah.

>> Where, again, I'm hearing you say the Law of Attraction is about what you're thinking about and desiring and how you're feeling around that experience.

It's not, "I want this, but I don't feel good about it 'cause I don't have it now."

It's thinking the desire and feeling the joy and excitement and being happy now... >> Yeah.

>> ...is the key.

>> It is the key.

>> Yeah.

>> That's right, yeah.

>> It's just -- and that is what -- that is what I did.

That visualization is what I did.

>> Yes.

>> I would imagine myself jumping for joy.

I would just close my -- and even -- I can see the movie of that even with my eyes open, because I've done it so many times and just jumping for joy that -- down to the smallest things, like, you go and have a -- you know, a test at the doctor's, like, what do you want?

Like, if you're going to go and have a test at the doctor's And somebody says to you, "Oh, how did the te--" I've done this with people.

"Oh how did you go with the test?"

"I don't know yet until it comes back."

[ Sighs ] >> Then it could be anything, >> Right.

You've got to say what it is.

You've got to decide what it is.

You got to -- down to the smallest things in life, right?

Everything.

Everything we have to intend and say.

We have to choose it.

We've got to declare.

>> Mm.

>> We are an unlimited being.

>> Mm.

>> Don't limit ourselves and say, "I don't know yet," because when people say that to me, I'm like, "What do you want it to be?"

"Well, I don't know until I get the results."

"No, what do you want it to be?"

[ Chuckles ] All clear, right?

Like, before I go to the dentist -- >> Right, right.

>> I always say before I go to the dentist, "Fabulous."

>> Right.

>> "All good.

All good."

>> Yeah, absolutely.

>> Yeah.

>> And going back to the desire around money, I wanted to add one more card in here, and then I have a couple final questions 'cause I could -- I could speak to you for hours, Rhonda.

This is amazing, but I want to be respectful of time here.

Um, when it comes to money... >> Mm.

>> ...you have this incredible card, again, in your Manifestation deck, which is -- says, "Prosperity is your birthright, and here are four simple rules to manifest money.

Number one, each day, think more thoughts of abundance than thoughts of lack of money.

Number two, be happy now without the money," which is probably one of the hardest things for people when they feel like they're stressed... >> Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

>> ...not with money.

"Be happy now without the money.

Number three, be truly grateful for everything you have now, not frustrated for what you're lacking, but be grateful for what you have now.

And four, give the best of yourself to others."

This is huge, and I'm so glad you have that in here, because a lot of us hold back the best of ourselves, from our-- to ourselves and to others.

>> Yeah.

>> Why do we -- Why do we live in scarcity of our gifts to other people to see those gifts fully?

>> I just think it's the nature of the ego.

>> Mm.

You know, the ego's second name is lack.

>> Mm.

>> "I am ego, lack, and fear."

[ Chuckles ] There -- There, it's kind of middle names, lack because it is completely lack full.

And -- And it's also incredibly fearful and so -- and so that is what is sending out all of the self-talk to us.

So we have to be careful of what we listen to... >> Yes.

>> ...you know, because that voice that you have in your head, that really -- that is not you.

And I know you think it's you because you think it sounds like you, that voice, the thoughts, but it is not you.

These are just thoughts floating by.

So don't empower those thoughts.

Don't -- You know, don't give those -- don't believe any of those thoughts, because all of those thoughts are an absolute lie.

You are an unlimited being.

>> Yes.

>> You are not lacking in any way whatsoever.

As you know, you felt that you were lacking, but you now know you're not lacking, right?

>> Right.

Mm-hmm.

>> That was not true.

>> Right.

>> Not true at all.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> So, yeah, just the -- it's just the nature of the ego.

So I would just say, please don't believe any negative thoughts about yourself because they're not true.

People are so much more than they realize.

It just...ah, I get really choked up when I -- when, you know, that -- people are just so magnificent and so brave and courageous to do this journey of being human.

You know, it's just -- and all of the obstacles and the difficulties that people face and, um, yeah, but magnificence is what we are.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> I think in, um -- in the -- in the Bible, in Job is -- is this simple, little line.

"What I feared the most came upon me."

>> Mm.

>> There's Law of Attraction.

>> Yes, yes, yes.

>> Right?

>> That is true.

>> So it's not worth being afraid.

You know, it really isn't.

And -- And -- And fear, you know, all of the emotions and all of the thoughts are coming from the mind, and the mind is just a program, and you can change the program.

And it just takes a little bit.

It just takes a little bit of putting in the good thoughts and the positive thoughts.

And -- And as you put in the good thoughts and the positive thoughts, then you feel -- then you begin to feel better in your life, you're feeling happier, and then you're on a roll.

>> Yes, absolutely.

>> Yeah.

>> And, Rhonda, again, I want to acknowledge you for your joy, for your light, for your creativity, for showing up for yourself fully, for living a harmonious life internally so that you're able to create effortlessly in the world and be of service.

It's a beautiful thing to watch.

And, um, again, I hope we get to do many more of these in the future, but I acknowledge you for the gift that you are, and I'm very grateful for the impact you've made on so many lives.

>> Thank you so much.

>> Of course.

We hope you enjoyed this episode and found it valuable.

Stay tuned for more from "The School of Greatness" coming soon on public television.

Again, I'm Lewis Howes.

And if no one has told you lately, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter.

Now it's time to go out there and do something great.

If you'd like to continue on the journey of greatness with me, please check out my website lewishowes.com, where you'll find over 1,000 episodes of "The School of Greatness" show, as well as tools and resources to support you in living your best life.

>> The online course Find Your Greatness is available for $19.

Drawn from the lessons Lewis Howes shares in "The School of Greatness," this interactive course will guide you through a step-by-step process to discover your strengths, connect to your passion and purpose, and help create your own blueprint for greatness.

To order, go to lewishowes.com/tv.

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