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- This is One-On-One.

- I'm an equal American just like you are.

- The way we change Presidents in this country is by voting.

- A quartet is already a jawn, it’s just The New Jawn.

- January 6th was not some sort of violent, crazy outlier.

- I don't care how good you are or how good you think you are, there is always something to learn.

- I mean what other country sends comedians over to embedded military to make them feel better.

- People call me 'cause they feel nobody's paying attention.

_ It’s not all about memorizing and getting information, it’s what you do with that information.

- (slowly) Start talking right now.

- That's a good question, high five.

(upbeat music) - Hi, everyone, Steve Adubato.

More importantly, I wanna introduce you to an important author, who's written a very important book.

He is Richard Esposito, and he's written the book, "Jimmy Breslin: The Man Who Told The Truth."

Good to see you, Richard.

- Great to see you, Steve.

Nice to meet.

- You got it.

This is the book.

Tell everyone who Jimmy Breslin was, and why Jimmy Breslin, particularly in journalism and media matters, still matters, please.

- Absolutely.

So Jimmy Breslin was one of the legendary voices in the previous era of journalism, when print was the way most people got their detailed news.

Jimmy was a New York columnist with a national footprint.

3 million people read him every day.

That's a phenomenally powerful, big voice.

And I chose to write about Jimmy because I thought the way he wrote, the subjects he wrote about, and the outcome of his writing is an important thing for people in journalism today to understand.

And it's important for the public to understand that really, the goal of good journalism is to get the facts and the truth to your audience, whether they agree with you or disagree with you.

And that's something that I think is very important at this moment in time.

- So, Jimmy Breslin, in the, particularly the '70s into the '80s, he mattered, as Richard said, on so many levels.

Columnists were columnists, meaning they set the tone, they set the agenda, and also, when horrific events, like the Son of Sam murders in New York happened in the late 1970s, Jimmy Breslin was the kind of columnist where David Berkowitz, who was in fact the Son of Sam, this horrific mass murderer, if you will, he was connecting with writing to Jimmy Breslin, and then Jimmy Breslin was publishing those letters in his column.

Help us understand that part of media history and why it mattered.

- Sure, Steve, it's as you said, at that time in the '70s and '80s, columnists were the big voices in newspapers, whether it was Sidney Schanberg at "The New York Times," James Reston at "The New York Times," Jimmy Breslin at "The Daily News," Pete Hamill, the readers looked to those voices beyond the facts of the news stories.

And Son of Sam was a reader.

David Berkowitz was a serial killer with a very good sense of language.

And he read the way Jimmy wrote, and he identified Jimmy Breslin as the person that he wanted to talk to while he's going on this killing spree, killing young women and some young men.

He explained how the demons inside him demanded blood.

And Jimmy became his muse, or his pen pal.

And through his column, he talked to Son of Sam, and told his readers who this madman was.

Son of Sam identified the person who reached the most New Yorkers, 3 million, with his message.

And this was a period when there were a lot of newspapers, so he had choices, and he picked Jimmy.

- Jimmy Breslin interacted with politicians.

He had a fascinating relationship with Ed Koch, the late mayor of New York City, with Mario Cuomo, a long connection with the Cuomo family.

When Jimmy Breslin passed, his funeral in New York City, Andrew Cuomo, the governor at the time was there.

Chris Cuomo, our good friend and colleague in the media was there.

Matilda Cuomo, the late Mario Cuomo's wife was there, the entire family.

He had these connections to politicians.

He actually ran for office in New York City with Norman Mailer on some reform liberal ticket that got crushed.

Let me ask you, Jimmy Breslin's relationship to politicians.

I'll talk about his relationship with the mob in a second, and his interactions with them, which are sometimes dangerous.

Did he like politicians, or did it depend upon who that politician was, Richard?

- So did he like politicians?

He liked politicians who did their job, and he liked politicians who were there for their citizens.

So Andrew Cuomo, who's a friend, Andrew, summed up the relationship between Jimmy Breslin and the governor, Mario Cuomo very well.

He said Jimmy understood, and his father, Mario, understood they had different jobs.

Mario's was to govern, Jimmy's was to watch him govern, and write about him governing.

So Mario was his friend, and he could be critical of him.

But when you look at Breslin's relationship with Bobby Kennedy back in 1967.

They interacted on subjects like the Vietnam War, where Bobby was still a hawk when Jimmy met him.

And Jimmy had been to Vietnam already and came back convinced that we needed to think about this another way.

But he saw Bobby as hope, and he was always looking for hope in politics, often disappointed of course.

- By the way, in the book it talks in detail about Jimmy Breslin's reporting on John F Kennedy's assassination in Dallas.

He was right there.

Who did he interview that was so unique and different?

Was it the person who dug the grave?

- Steve, that's right, as you know.

What Jimmy did, was with this one column on the assassination of the President of the United States, John F. Kennedy, he changed journalism also.

Not only did he tell you a story that no one else thought to tell, he told journalists, "Hey, you might consider telling stories in a different way."

And what he did, thousands of reporters from all over the world lined Pennsylvania Avenue to watch the president's coffin go by with the flag behind the Riderless Horse, Jackie, the children standing there.

Jimmy went to Arlington Cemetery, and he talked to Mr. Pollard, the grave digger, who made $3.10 cents an hour to dig a hole in the ground where the President of the United States would be interred.

What Jimmy did in this beautiful, simple way was show you the death of a president in a very personal way.

Not only was a man buried, but a sense of American hope was buried.

Camelot, as they called it at the time, was buried.

You learned everything you needed to know about the state of America in that column.

And that's what Jimmy did.

And everybody woke up the next day, and they read that column, and now, as you know, it's part of a syllabus in journalism schools.

But that bringing you in, letting you feel, not just with your head, but with your heart, that's what he did with that story.

And it's a phenomenal achievement really.

- By the way, in Richard's books, are many of Jimmy Breslin's columns.

Lemme talk about Jimmy's personal life and share this.

I met Jimmy in 1982.

At the time, my boss, I was working at the Port Authority in New York, New Jersey as a very young government affairs person in Washington and in New York.

And my boss was Ronnie Eldridge.

Ronnie was Jimmy Breslin's second wife.

His wife Rosemary, I believe, died in 1981.

He marries Ronnie Eldridge.

And Ronnie was, she was one of a kind, also very involved in New York City politics.

Explain how chaotic Jimmy Breslin's personal life was, and how, if at all, it connected his work as a journalist.

- So you hit it right on the head.

His personal life was completely chaotic.

So Jimmy couldn't drive, Jimmy couldn't do his expenses.

Jimmy wouldn't know how to pay a bill.

Jimmy never had pocket money.

Ronnie Eldridge, and prior to Ronnie, Rosemary Breslin, they took care of everything.

All Jimmy Breslin did, the only thing he did, he woke up in the morning, 5:00 in the morning, started dialing the phone.

And he just worked.

And that's what he was good at.

He was a good writer, and at times, as his editor said, a miserable human being.

Ronnie loved him, Rosemary loved him, his children adored him.

But on any given day, as far as he was concerned, they were his drivers, or his dictationist, or they would run the letter from Son of Sam to "The Daily News" office to his home.

Everyone was a character in the play that starred Jimmy Breslin, was written by Jimmy Breslin, produced by Jimmy Breslin.

The rest of us were characters.

And yet he was a very compassionate man.

- One of the characters here, Jimmy used to hang out, like to hang out in bars, fair to say?

- Yeah, I'd say that's fair.

Yeah.

He's the clever of the bunch in a bar.

(laughs) - Richard, he had a situation with Jimmy the Gent Burke.

Jimmy the Gent Burke, who was played by Robert De Niro in "Goodfellas."

Check it out.

Jimmy the Gent Burke did not, a mob guy in the Lucchese crime family in New York City.

Jimmy Burke did not like how Breslin was writing about the mob at the time, and they were in the same bar owned by a mobster.

And if I'm not mistaken, in the book you talk about how Burke beat the crap out of Jimmy Breslin, just kept smashing his head against the bar to send him a message.

Exaggerated or accurate?

- Accurate and not exaggerated.

There are contemporary accounts.

Look, Jimmy the Gent Burke, and brave Breslin gave him the name, the Gent.

Jimmy the Gent Burke was a sociopath, not just a gangster.

He was on the far end of it.

They robbed a Lufthansa plane, of what was the largest- - $6 million, the largest heist at the time.

Go ahead, at JFK.

- And Burke then proceeded to kill everyone that worked with him on the heist, 'cause he knew that's guarantee that they wouldn't talk.

So Jimmy hung out with gangsters because he knew something that Damon Runyon knew decades earlier, which is, you find the best stories when you hang out sometimes with the worst people.

And Burke kept the relationship.

He beat Jimmy up badly that night, but when Jimmy's wife was dying of cancer, he called Breslin up and said, "Please come over."

And he wanted to give him $35,000 for treatment.

And Jimmy didn't take the money, but he told Burke, "I'll never forget this."

And he never did.

So it was a relationship where Jimmy got stories.

They got someone who they could talk to in the media.

But there was also their understanding that this guy can betray you at any time.

And that's what Jimmy would do.

- You know, the book is powerful for those of us who are in media, fascinated by media.

Some of us (laughs) get newspapers when newspapers were newspapers, where colonists really mattered, and set the tone in a way that social media may do it now in some odd way, dangerous way at times.

Breslin was extraordinary.

He also won the Pulitzer Prize, to be clear.

This is the book, "Jimmy Breslin: The Man Who Told the Truth," and Richard Esposito is the author.

Please read this book, and find out about Jimmy Breslin.

He mattered.

Hey Richard, thank you so much for joining us.

We appreciate it.

- Steve, thanks for having me.

I'm so glad you liked the book.

- Loved the book.

Stay with us, we'll be right back.

- [Narrator] To watch more One on One with Steve Adubato find us online and follow us on Social media.

- We're now joined by the author of the book, "Schoolboy: The Untold Journey of a Yankee Hero," and he is Tim Manners.

Good to see you, Tim.

- Great to see you, Steve.

Thanks for having me.

- Yeah, this is a fascinating book.

The book is about Waite Hoyt, Waite Schoolboy Hoyt.

Who the heck was he?

And why do those of us who are Yankee fans don't even know who he was one of the greatest pitchers ever for the Yankees?

Go ahead.

- Yeah, he was only the greatest pitcher on the greatest baseball team of all time, the 1927 Yankees, a teammate of Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig, and not given nearly the credit that he should, I think, for his role in that team and what it meant for every Yankees team.

I think moving forward.

- Why do you think we don't know more about him?

- Well, it's the passage of time.

You know, it's been a hundred years.

It's like anything else.

How many people, you know, will remember Charlie Watts a hundred years from now?

They'll probably remember Mick Jagger (indistinct) - You can talk about the Rolling Stones, someone who may not have been out front, right?

- Right.

- You remember Jagger, but not Charlie Watt... Is he Charlie Watts of the Yankees, 1927?

- Yeah.

I think of him actually sort of the Ringo of the Yankees.

(Steve laughs) Sort of the underappreciated cog in the machine.

And the group certainly would not have been as successful without him, you know.

While the Babe and Lou Gehrig and Murderers Row were knocking those home runs and hitting those bombs, it was Waite Hoyt and other fine members of the Yankees pitching staff who were holding down the runs on the other side.

- Waite Hoyt was signed by the New York Giants at 15 years of age, becoming the youngest ever in Major League baseball.

What the heck?

How does that happen at 15?

- Well, he was very talented.

It's actually a good question.

He had developed quite a reputation around Brooklyn, where he grew up on the Erasmus Hall baseball team, came to the attention, actually first of the Dodgers, who were known as the Tip-Tops at that time.

He was invited to pitch batting practice for them, and then the Giants.

John McGraw saw him and after pitching batting practice for a couple of weeks, McGraw offered him a contract.

It wasn't really a contract, it was more like an option.

There was no money involved other than a $5 bonus, which Waite's dad, Addison, quickly relieved him of and bought himself a hat.

- Now you made a connection with Waite's son who played an important role in all this.

Make that connection for us, please, Tim.

- Yeah, so I've known Chris Hoyt, Christopher Waite Hoyt, one of Waite's sons, for about 40 years.

I was in the public relations business, and Chris was my client.

And I remember very distinctly, it was actually about two years.

I had known Chris for about two years before he mentioned who his father was.

We were coming back from a meeting in New York City at Ogilvy & Mather, big ad agency, where he was working at the time.

And I think he was just bored and trying to make conversation, and he kind of cast me a sideways glance and said, "My dad was a hall of fame pitcher for the 1927 Yankees."

And, you know, that got my attention.

(laughs) And I sat up straight, and like, very excited and I said, "What was his name?"

And he said, "Waite Hoyt."

And I thought, "What, who, what?"

You know, and I really was thoroughly embarrassed that I had no idea who Waite Hoyt was.

And you know, that's sort of an issue that's followed me around in the years since.

- By the way, check out our... We're taping this toward the middle back end of January, 2025.

We're gonna be airing... We actually, believe it or not, Tim, together with our colleague and our boss, the boss at public broadcasting, Neal Shapiro, who's a huge Yankee fan, we actually did a week worth of program about great Yankees like Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig and a whole range of others.

Check out our website.

It'll be there and you'll see it.

But by the way, I don't even...

I'm gonna ask Neal if he knows about Waite Hoyt, but I'm curious about this as an obsessed Yankee fan.

In the book, you talk about how Waite did not always get along with some of the Yankee greats like Babe Ruth.

Go.

- That's true, Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, both, They did eventually become close friends.

But at the beginning, there was an altercation that lasted actually for two years, where Babe Ruth wouldn't talk to Waite.

- Why?

- Well, Waite was never really quite clear on why that was.

They were both dating the same showgirl, which might have had- - Oh, okay.

- A little something to do with it.

But the story was that they were playing an afternoon game at Yankee Stadium and Waite was pitching, routine pop-up fly ball, and the Babe just let it drop very intentionally.

And Waite turned around, his hands on his hips, and glared at him.

They got back in the dugout and words were exchanged and then into the locker room, and the fists began to fly.

They actually got into a fist fight.

This was one of the first things that Chris told me about his father.

He said, "My dad got into a fistfight with Babe Ruth."

I mean, can you imagine how many people could claim something like that?

- Babe was out in right field?

- Babe would've been in right field, yeah.

And so- - And he let the ball drop and he was the Babe so he could do what he wanted.

- That's right.

- That's the way he thought.

And they got into actually, a physical confrontation?

- They did.

I don't think anybody was hurt.

I mean, there was no evidence of that.

But Babe refused to talk to Waite for two years.

Finally, Babe kind of buried the hatchet, offered Waite, sort of at random, a beer and said, "Forget about it, kid, we're good."

- By the way, Waite Hoyt inducted into the Baseball Hall of Fame in 1969, A broadcaster with the Cincinnati Reds, wow, for many, many years.

Why the Reds?

What was the connection to Cincinnati?

- Well, you know, we talk about how Waite is not well remembered at all as a member of the Yankees.

He's beloved to this day in Cincinnati as the voice of the Reds.

And it was truly that after Waite had retired from baseball at age 38, he needed something to do- - I'm sorry for interrupting.

A 23-year professional career.

He won 237 games.

Check out how few people have actually done that and also pitched 3,845 and 2/3 innings.

Go ahead, you were gonna say?

- Yeah, I was gonna say his postseason ERA was 1.83, which is just really incredible.

He was a money pitcher.

He was known for keeping the runs down.

Yeah.

So you were asking about Cincinnati- - Yeah.

- And how that came about.

And Waite was a...

He had done some radio as a member of the Yankees, and it seemed like a logical progression for him.

He had been on vaudeville as well, so he was kind of a natural showman.

- Vaudeville as what?

- He was a song and dance man.

His dad had actually been in vaudeville as well.

It was in his blood.

In the off season, Waite would play the biggest houses all across the country, crossed paths with everyone from Mae West to Groucho Marx.

Jimmy Durante.

And the incredible thing about that, Steve, is that he made three times as much money playing vaudeville as he ever did playing for the Yankees.

- So hold up, by the way, I got...

This is my old school baseball from our kids playing in Little League.

I'm curious about this.

There are all kinds of pitches now that didn't exist back in the day, 1927 Yankees.

Was he a fastball pitcher that overpowered people?

Did he have a lot of stuff, I don't wanna get too inside, that weren't fastballs, but were hard to hit?

What did he have?

- I think he had tremendous control.

Don't really know how much velocity he had.

Didn't have to throw as hard back then.

I don't think anybody was throwing his hard.

We'll never really know because it wasn't measured the way it is now.

But he really could locate a pitch.

And that was really the key.

He didn't have a huge repertoire of pitches.

The fastball was basically his meal ticket.

He also had a change up, or what do you call, a change of pace pitch.

He couldn't throw a curve ball though, to save his life.

- Could not?

- No.

Self-admittedly.

- What he could do, and he did socialize and hang out, with the infamous mobster Al Capone.

- Yeah.

- Please talk about that.

- That's maybe my favorite story in the whole book.

So Waite was out in Chicago.

It was in a away series with the White Sox.

And he and Joe Dugan and Bob Musil and a couple of the other Yankees went to a speakeasy that was owned by Al Capone.

And Joe Dugan was kind of a wisecracker and he bellied up to the bar and said to the bartender, "Hey, any chance we can meet the big guy?"

And the bartender said, you know, "Are you serious?

And Dugan said, "Well, why sure.

You know, of course."

And next thing they know that there is an armored vehicle parked outside this speakeasy, whisking them across Chicago to Capone's Hotel.

And they go up in this freight elevator- By the way, Capone lived in a hotel.

He took over the Chicago mob from Johnny Torrio and also loved baseball, as I remember.

Go ahead, please.

He kept his office at this particular hotel.

- Right.

So they go to the hotel in the armored car?

- Yeah.

they took them to a hotel in an armored car into this freight elevator.

They were told to keep their hands out of their pockets.

They stopped at every floor.

There was an armed guard at each floor.

They get to Capone's floor.

They walked down this long hallway to Capone's office, this huge cavernous room, and he's there sitting behind a desk.

And behind him on the wall, there's a picture of George Washington and Abraham Lincoln.

So Joe Dugan being Dugan, steps up, extends his hand and said, "Three great men, George, Abe and Al."

And Al Capone just thought that was hilarious.

So he ordered in like, a case of champagne and they just spent an afternoon shooting the breeze.

No real record of what they said, but quite an incredible incident.

- And by the way, was that in Chicago before the Black Sox scandal with... whether it was Rothstein or others fixing the World Series?

Was it before that?

- It would've been after that.

- After 'cause that was 1919, if I'm not mistaken.

- 1919, and I think it became public knowledge 1922.

So I'm thinking this was probably sometime after that.

- Before I let you go, I got a minute left.

Why did you write this book?

- Well, for a whole bunch of reasons.

I mean, obviously there was my friendship with Chris.

We both felt very strongly that his dad deserved to be better remembered than he was.

But it's 'cause I feel that this book is more than a baseball book in the traditional sense.

It's a very human story, and Waite did not hold back in terms of analyzing himself and criticizing himself and trying to be a better person.

He certainly had a lot of shortcomings.

But I think his motivation... And I don't really know.

I mean, I was working off of unfinished manuscripts and interview transcripts and so forth.

I think his goal was to pass along to others what he had learned along the way, because he felt that during his own journey, he really had not listened to older people and taken their advice as much as he would've liked to have done.

And also, he just felt he had not sufficiently expressed a sense of gratitude.

So I think this is sort of his way of closing...

It would've been his way, and hopefully I've done it for him now, of closing the loop on that.

- The author is Tim Manners and the book is called "Schoolboy: The Untold Journey of a Yankees Hero."

It is Waite Hoyt.

By the way, the foreword in the book written by the great Bob Costas.

- Yes.

- Well done.

Enjoyed the book.

Others will enjoy the book.

There it is, "Schoolboy," check it out.

You don't have to be a Yankee fan to appreciate it.

Tim, thank you so much, we appreciate it.

- Thank you.

Steve, pleasure.

- I'm Steve Adubato.

Go Yankees, whether you're a Yankee fan or not.

And Scarlyn, behind the camera.

I know you're gonna root for the Mets.

My condolences.

See you next time.

- [Narrator] One-On-One with Steve Adubato is a production of the Caucus Educational Corporation.

Funding has been provided by Atlantic Health System.

Seton Hall University.

The North Ward Center.

PSE&G.

Delta Dental of New Jersey.

Eastern Atlantic States Regional Council of Carpenters.

The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey.

The Adler Aphasia Center.

And by The New Jersey Education Association.

Promotional support provided by NJ.Com.

And by New Jersey Globe.

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