>> VERMONT AUTHOR OF 15 BOOKS, EDITOR OF DOZENS AND CO-FOUNDER OF COUNTRY JOURNAL, RICHARD KETCHUM HAS A PIBL -- PARTICULAR PASSION FOR THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION, WE WILL TALK ABOUT HIS RICH LIFE AND OUR NATION'S FRAGILE RISE WITH RICHARD KETCHUM NEXT ON "PROFILE."

A NATIVE OF PITTSBURGH, RICHARD KETCHUM GRADUATED FROM YALE, THEN SERVED AS A COMMANDING NAVAL OFFICER IN WORLD WAR II.

HE MOVED TO VERMONT TO WORK WITH THE ORVIS COMPANY AND DEVELOP AN ADVERTISING COMPANY.

IT TOOK HIM TO NEW YORK CITY FOR 20 YEARS WHERE HE SERVED AS ASSOCIATE EDITOR OF THE MAGAZINE AND EDITORIAL DIRECTOR OF THE BOOK DIVISION PICKING UP A PULITZER PRIZE PRIZE SPECIAL CITATION FOR HIS CIVIL WAR BOOK.

IN 1974 HE RETURNED TO DORSET, VERMONT, CO-FOUNDED BLAIR AND KETCHUM'S COUNTRY JOURNAL AND WROTE 15 BOOKS AND NUMEROUS ARTICLES.

THE TURNING POINT OF AMERICANS, REVOLUTIONARY WAR, WAS CITED AS A "NEW YORK TIMES" NOTABLE BOOK.

KETCHUM LIVES WITH HIS WIFE, BARBARA, AND ON THEIR WARRING -- AND ONTHEIR WORKING IF THAT R IN DORSET, IT'S GREAT TO HAVE YOU HERE.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> HOW DID YOU COME TO YOUR LOVE OF VERMONT?

>> A LOT OF MY ANCESTORS CAME FROM HERE, AND WE CAME UP TO VERMONT.

I HAD TO LEAVE FROM THE NAVY DURING THE WAR, AND BARBARA AND I CAME UP AND SPENT A MONTH HERE IN ABSOLUTELY PERFECT WINTER.

YOU COULD GO OUT AND JUST IN A SWEATER, AND IT WAS BELOW ZERO, AND IT WAS SO DRY AND SO HOT.

BUT WE REALLY FELL IN LOVE WITH IT, AND AFTER THE WAR, DECIDED TO COME UP HERE.

I HAD BEEN LOOKING FOR WORK IN NEW YORK UNSUCCESSFULLY BECAUSE EVERYONE, EVERY PUBLISHER THAT I WENT AROUND TO SEE SAID WELL, COME BACK WHEN YOU CAN GET EXPERIENCE, AND I KEPT ASKING THEM, IF YOU WON'T HIRE ME, HOW DO I GET THE EXPERIENCE?

>> SO YOU WORKED FOR ORVIS FOR A WHILE AND STARTED YOUR OWN ADVERTISING FIRM.

>> BUT BEFORE THAT, I MUST TELL YOU THAT I APPLIED FOR A JOB AT THE BENNINGTON BANNER.

OLD MR.

HOW WAS THE OWNER AND PUBLISHER AND EDITOR OF THE BANNER.

WHEN I WAS TALKING TO HIM, HE SAID WHAT'S YOUR RELIGION?

AND I THOUGHT, THAT'S A FUNNY ONE, AND I SAID WELL, PRESBYTERIAN.

WHY YOU ASK?

HE SAID WELL, I JUST LIKE TO KNOW THESE THINGS.

WHAT'S YOUR POLITICS?

AND I SAID, YOU DON'T THINK THAT I WOULD BE COMING TO VERMONT IF I WERE A DEMOCRAT, DO YOU?

AND HE SAID, THEY TRY TO INFILTRATE EVERYWHERE.

>> WE GOT DOWN TO THE NITTY-GRITTY, AND WHICH WAS WHAT HE WAS GOING TO PAY ME.

HE SAID I WILL GIVE YOU $25 A WEEK.

AND I SAID MR.

HOW, I HAVE A WIFE AND A HOUSE AND I HAVE TO DRIVE 30 MILES TO GET HERE, I JUST CAN'T POSSIBLY WORK FOR $25 A WEEK, AND HE SAID WELL, CAN'T HELP, THE MANAGING EDITOR ONLY GETS 35.

SO THAT WAS THAT WITH MR.

HOW AND THE MANOR.

AND THEN I GOT A JOB AT ORVIS.

>> AND THEN DURING THE KOREAN WAR, YOU TOOK A JOB AS THE DIRECTOR OF OVERSEAS PUBLICATIONS FOR THE UNITED STATES INFORMATION AGENCY.

THE AGENCY WHICH IS NO LONGER -- YOU DID NOT SEEM TO STAY THAT LONG BECAUSE YOU GOT YOUR AMERICAN HERITAGE.

DID THAT JOB FIT?

WHAT WAS THAT LIKE?

>> I WAS THERE FOR ABOUT FOUR YEARS.

AND I MADE UP MY MIND THAT WORKING FOR THE GOVERNMENT, IF YOU GET 10% ENJOYMENT OUT OF IT, IT'S WORTH IT.

ANYWAY, I REALLY ENJOYED WHAT I WAS DOING VERY MUCH.

I FELT IT WAS IMPORTANT, BUT AFTER A WHILE, IT GOT TO BE PRETTY MUCH ROUTINE, AND THAT'S WHEN I DECIDED TO LOOK ELSEWHERE.

>> YEAH.

ARE YOU SORRY ABOUT THE DEMISE OF THE -- >> I AM, BECAUSE I THINK IT'S -- IT WAS A VERY IMPORTANT ORGANIZATION.

THEY DID A GREAT DEAL OF GOOD ALL OVER THE WORLD.

>> SO YOU WORKED FOR AMERICAN HERITAGE AS EDITORIAL DIRECTOR OF THE BOOK DIVISION, AND THE ASSOCIATE DIRECTOR OF THE MAGAZINE OF THE DOZENS OF GREAT BOOKS AND PROJECTS AMONG THEM, A BOOK ON THE RENAISSANCE AND THE CIVIL WAR AND THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION.

>> WELL, I THINK THAT THE RENAISSANCE BOOK WAS REALLY ONE OF MY FAVORITES.

I THINK IT'S ONE OF THE BEST BOOKS THAT WE DID.

IT WAS A TEXT WRITTEN BY AN ENGLISHMEN NAMED JAY H. PLUM, WHO IS A WONDERFUL HISTORIAN.

HE WAS A WONDERFUL -- IT WAS A WONDERFUL BOOK TO DO, AND I ALSO -- I ENJOYED ALL THE BOOKS, BUT THE -- OUR BOOK ON THE AMERICAN CIVIL WAR WAS A GREAT ONE, AND BRUCE WROTE THAT FOR US.

>> RIGHT.

THAT WAS THE ONE THAT HAD THE PULITZER PRIZE.

>> YES, AND THE BOOK ON THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION WAS PRETTY GOOD, TOO.

THEY ARE ALL GOOD.

>> YEAH.

>> IT WAS A REAL HEYDAY FOR AMERICAN HERITAGE.

WELL, EVENTUALLY, YOU DID MOVE BACK TO VERMONT.

HAD YOU BEEN WORKING ON THAT FOR A WHILE, FINDING A WAY TO COME BACK?

>> I HAD, YES.

BOTH BARBARA AND I LOVED IT UP HERE.

WE HAD A PLACE HERE TO COME TO.

I TELL YOU WAS BASICALLY HAPPENED WAS THAT I FELT THAT I HAD GONE ABOUT AS FAR AS I COULD GO AT THE AMERICAN HERITAGE, AND I HAD PROPOSED TO THEM A NEW MAGAZINE.

BY THAT TIME, THEY HAD BEEN BOUGHT BY McGRAW HILL.

McGRAW HILL SAID, IT'S GOING TO COST OVER 3 MILLION TO START, AND WE ARE NOT INTERESTED IN IT.

SO I KEPT PURSUING IT, AND HAD A DUMMY MADE UP WITH A LOT OF IDEAS.

I CALLED WATER HARD, WHO WAS THE EDITOR OF VERMONT LIFE AT THE TIME.

HE SAID YOU OUGHT TO TALK TO BILL BLAIR, AND I SAID WHO IS THAT?

AND HE SAID HE'S THE EDITOR, THE PUBLISHER OF HARPERS, AND HE HAS AN IDEA FOR A MAGAZINE.

SO I CALLED UP BLAIR, AND WE GOT TOGETHER OVER LUNCH.

I TOLD HIM ABOUT MY IDEA FOR A MAGAZINE, AND HE SEEMED TO LIKE IT.

AND WHEN WE BROKE UP, HE REACHED IN HIS POCKET AND PULLED OUT A LETTER AND SAID READ THIS AND SEE IF YOU CAN IT FITS IN WITH SO I DROVE DOWN THE ROAD 100 YARDS, AND STOPPED.

AND READ THIS, AND IT WAS A PROPOSAL FOR EXACTLY THE SAME MAGAZINE.

>> SO BLAIR AND KETCHUM'S COUNTRY JOURNAL WAS BORN.

>> IT WAS.

AND WE -- I LOVED THAT.

WE HAD A WONDERFUL TIME DOING IT.

>> YOU WROTE -- I AM GOING TO SKIP AHEAD BECAUSE THERE ARE TONES HERE WE NEED TO GET THROUGH.

YOU WROTE A BOOK ABOUT A PERIOD IN AMERICA JUST BEFORE WORLD WAR II FROM 1938 TO 1941.

IT WAS A TIME YOU WERE COMING OF AGE, AND A NUMBER OF PEOPLE CITE THIS BOOK WHEN THEY TALK BUT.

WHAT WAS SO UNIQUE AND IMPORTANT ABOUT THIS TIME?

>> WELL, IT WAS -- THEY WERE BORROWED YEARS, IN MY OPINION, AND IT WAS -- ROOSEVELT WAS TRYING VERY HARD TO GET US INTO THE WAR, I THINK.

AND THERE WAS A LOT OF RESISTANCE OF THAT, AMONG THEM THE MOST PROMINENT WAS CHARLES LINDBERGH, WHO WAS VERY MUCH AGAINST OUR INVOLVEMENT IN THE WAR.

I WAS VERY IMPRESSED BY HIM.

I MUST SAY BECAUSE HE CAME TO YALE WHEN I WAS THERE, AND GAVE AN IMPASSIONED TALK, AND BASICALLY, HIS IDEA WAS THAT THE WAR -- BRITAIN AND FRANCE COULDN'T POSSIBLY SURVIVE AGAINST HITLER, AND WE WOULD BE SOMEWHERE DOWN THE LIST FOR PEOPLE FOR HITLER TO ATTACK, AND HE THOUGHT WE OUGHT TO BE READY FOR IT.

AND THAT WAS HIS PRIMARY CONCERN.

ANYWAY, AS FAR AS THE BOOK IS CONCERNED, IT REALLY IS MY FAVORITE.

I WISH IT WERE STILL IN PRINT.

BUT IT WAS REALLY ABOUT BARBARA AND ME AND OUR FEELINGS ABOUT THE WAR AND, YOU KNOW, WORRIES ABOUT IT AND SO ON.

>> TO WHAT DEGREE DOES ONE'S PERSONAL HISTORY INFLUENCE A VIEW OF HISTORY?

YOU WRITE A LOT ABOUT THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION, BUT YOU COME FROM THIS WORLD WAR II, COLD WAR ERA.

DOES THAT MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN THE WAY THAT YOU LOOK AT OTHER PERIODS OF HISTORY, DO YOU THINK?

>> I DON'T KNOW.

I WAS PERSUADED TO PUT MYSELF INTO THE BORROWED YEARS' BOOK, AND I THINK THAT WAS THE ED -- THE EDITOR SUGGESTED THAT, AND I THINK THAT HE WAS RIGHT.

I WAS NOT IN THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION, BUT I MUST TELL YOU THAT I HAD A GREAT GRANDFATHER, WHOM I KNEW, AND HE WAS BORN IN 1844 WHEN JAMES POLK WAS ELECTED PRESIDENT.

I HAD A FUNNY FEELING ABOUT HIM.

HE WAS OLD ENOUGH TO HAVE KNOWN SOME VETERANS OF THE REVOLUTION.

I WAS ONLY SIX WHEN HE DIED, SO IT IS NOT AS THOUGH I COULD QUESTION HIM, BUT I ALWAYS FELT LATER THAT HE WAS MY CONNECTION TO THE REVOLUTION, AND THERE WAS SOMETHING ABOUT THAT THAT MADE IT VERY, VERY FAVORABLE TO ME.

>> MORE REAL.

>> YEAH.

>> WELL, YOU ARE A VERY ENGAGING WRITER, AND EVERYBODY FROM DAVID McCOLLUM ON TALK ABOUT HOW YOU CREATE THESE WONDERFUL CHARACTERS.

DO YOU CONSIDER YOURSELF MORE A WRITER, HISTORIAN, OR IS THAT A MOOT QUESTION?

>> I GUESS IT IS.

I THINK I AM -- I THINK OF MYSELF AS A WRITER, AND I LOVE HISTORY.

SO THAT'S WHAT I LIKE TO WRITE ABOUT.

>> OKAY.

LET'S GET ONTO THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION SINCE YOU SPENT SO MUCH TIME THERE.

YOU WROTE AND EDITED AN AMERICAN HERITAGE ABOUT THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION IN THE 1950s AND 30 YEARS LATER YOU COME BACK TO IT, YOU JUST RELEASED YOUR FIFTH BOOK ON THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION.

VICTORY AT YORKTOWN.

WHAT IS IT ABOUT THIS PERIOD OF HISTORY THAT CAPTIVATED YOU TO THE DEGREE THAT YOU CONCENTRATED ON IT?

>> WELL, I HAVE ALWAYS FELT THAT IT WAS ONE OF THE MOST, IF NOT THE MOST IMPORTANT EPISODE IN OUR HISTORY.

AFTER ALL, THAT'S WHERE WE WON OUR INDEPENDENCE AND GOT OUR FREEDOM AND SO ON.

AND THERE WERE ALL THESE PEOPLE WHO ARE INVOLVED, AND I THINK IT WAS SUCH AN EXTRAORDINARY PERIOD IN THE LIFE OF THIS COUNTRY WITH THESE MARVELOUS INDIVIDUALS WHO WERE INVOLVED IN THAT WAR, AND THEN IN THE ESTABLISHMENT OF THE COUNTRY.

I MEAN, I DON'T THINK THAT THERE IS, THERE'S EVER BEEN A STRONGER GROUP OF PEOPLE.

ANYWAY, IT'S ALWAYS OF PARTICULAR INTEREST FOR ME, AND I MUST SAY THAT YOU CAN'T READ ABOUT THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION WITHOUT ADMIRING, IN PARTICULAR, GEORGE WASHINGTON.

HE'S BEEN A SPECIAL HERO OF MINE FOR A LONG TIME.

HE'S A GREAT MAN.

>> WELL, WHAT IS IT ABOUT GEORGE WASHINGTON THAT MAY BE AMERICANS HAVE MISSED?

WHAT DO YOU WANT THEM TO KNOW ABOUT GEORGE WASHINGTON?

>> HE SACRIFICED AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT, BUT I THINK IT WAS HE WHO HELD THE ARMY TOGETHER, AND THE ARMY WAS ALL THAT WE HAD, REALLY.

AND YOU HAVE TO THINK OF IT IN TERMS OF SEVERAL TIMES DURING HIS SUPERVISION OF THE ARMY.

HE HAD NO MORE PEOPLE IN IT THAN ARE IN A GOOD SIZE OF A HIGH SCHOOL TODAY.

3,000 MEN, AND HE'S SLIDING THE BRITISH ARMY, AND HIS MEN WERE SUFFERING JUST TORTURES OF THE DAY BUT NOT GETTING ENOUGH TO EAT OR WEAR, AND BECAUSE THEY WERE EXPOSED TO THE ELEMENTS, AND THEY JUST -- AND THERE WERE ABOUT, AGAIN, ABOUT 3,000 OF THEM THAT STUCK WITH WASHINGTON TO THE VERY END.

HOW AND WHY THEY DID SO IS A MYSTERY, BUT THEY DID.

>> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT'S SO STRIKING ABOUT VICTORY AT YORKTOWN IS JUST THAT, IT'S FOUR YEARS AFTER THE VICTORY OF SARATOGA.

SOME OF THEM ARE DESERVING, AND SOME OF THEM ARE STAYING AND STARVING AND CAN'T GET THE STATES TO GIVE THEM FOOD SO THEY HAVE TO PILL AN -- THEY HAVE TOE FROM THEIR COUNTRY, BUT SOME HOW STAYED TOGETHER.

COULD WE HAVE WON THE WAR WITHOUT THE FRENCH?

>> I DON'T THINK SO.

I THINK THE FRENCH WERE ABSOLUTELY CRUCIAL TO IT BECAUSE THEY CAME AT A TIME WHEN THE -- WHEN WASHINGTON'S ARMY WAS REALLY ABOUT TO FALL APART.

AND THE FRENCH BROUGHT WITH THEM UNIFORMS AND WEAPONS AND MORE IMPORTANT, MONEY, WITH WHICH WASHINGTON COULD PAY THE TROOPS OCCASIONALLY.

AND AS A MATTER OF FACT, WHEN THE FRENCH AND THE AMERICANS WERE TRAVELING SOUTH, HEADED FOR YORKTOWN, THE AMERICANS, THE ARMY SAID THEY WERE NOT GOING TO GO SOUTH UNLESS THEY COULD HAVE MONEY.

THEY HAD TO BE PAID.

AND WASHINGTON HAD NO MONEY TO GIVE THEM.

AT WHICH POINT THE GENERAL OF THE FRENCH STEPPED IN AND LOANED WASHINGTON $20,000, WHICH WAS WHICH HE PAID HIS TROOPS.

WHETHER HE GOT THAT MONEY BACK OR NOT, I DON'T KNOW, BUT GIVEN THE RECORD OF CONGRESS, IT'S SORT OF DUBIOUS.

>> RIGHT.

[LAUGHTER] EVEN WHEN KIND OF GEORGE WASHINGTON WANTED TO TAKE NEW YORK CITY AND THEY WANTED TO GO SOUTH, MAYBE THAT'S WHY THEY WENT SOUTH.

>> YEAH.

>> YOU GIVE BENEDICT ARNOLD NO SLACK IN THIS BOOK.

SOME PEOPLE HAVE BECAUSE HE WAS NOT TREATED THAT WELL, AND INDEED BECAME A TRADE TRAITOR.

YOU GIVE HIM NO SLACK.

>> I THINK THE REASON I FEEL THAT WAY IS I THINK WHAT HE DID WAS DESPICABLE, BUT THE GENERALS, OR MEN WHO BECAME GENERALS WHO WERE TREATED AS BADLY PASSED OVER, AND FOR INSTANCE, JOHN STARK OF NEW HAMPSHIRE, JOHN STARK GOT OVER IT QUICKLY ENOUGH TO GO TO SARATOGA AND HELP THEM TO WIN THAT BATTLE.

AND THE OTHERS WERE TREATED EQUALLY BADLY BY CONGRESS, AND HE WAS JUST A SPECIAL CASE.

HE WAS A MARVELOUS, FIGHTING GENERAL.

NO QUESTION ABOUT THAT.

BUT I THINK THAT HE WAS SIMPLY TOO GREEDY, AND -- >> AND OFF HE WENT.

>> YES.

>> AND I JUST WOULD LOVE FOR YOU TO READ ONE BRIEF PASSAGE FROM YORKTOWN.

THIS IS A DESCRIPTION BY THE FRENCH COUNT ABOUT AN AMERICAN ATTITUDE THAT I THINK EXISTS TODAY.

>> NEITHER RANKED MORE DISTINCTION EXISTED AMONGST THE ORDINARY CITIZENS.

ALL OF WHOM BELIEVE THEMSELVES EQUAL, AND ENABLING A LOCKSMITH OR MERCHANT TO BECOME A MEMBER OF CONGRESS.

AND HE SAYS THE RICH ALONE TAKE PRECEDENCE OVER THE COMMON PEOPLE.

ONE EFFECT WAS TO CREATE A SCRAMBLE FOR LUCRATIVE JOBS, WHICH WERE USUALLY BESTOWED ON THE WEALTHY BECAUSE THEY COULD QUOTE, "MAKE THEIR ALLEGED TALENTS SHINE IN THE LIGHT OF THEIR GOLD," UNQUOTE LETTING THE RIGHT PEOPLE KNOW THAT THEY HAD MONEY, TO PUT IT ANOTHER WAY AMERICANS CONSIDERED THEMSELVES EQUALS, BUT SHOWED A CERTAIN DEFERENCE TO THOSE WITH MONEY WHO ASSOCIATE ONLY WITH ONE ANOTHER.

HE SAW THIS FRENCHMEN SAW A FAMILY WHOSE DAUGHTERS COULD NOT BE BETTER DRESSED.

THEY WOULD RATHER DRESS WELL AND LOOK RICH THAN EAT BETTER FOOD, AND WHILE THE WARDROBES OF THESE GIRLS WERE NOT LARGE, ONE SEES NO GIRLS HERE IN TOWN OR COUNTRY WHOSE HAIR IS NOT DRESSED IN THE FRENCH FASHION.

THOSE WHO CANNOT AFFORD JEWELRY MAKE UP FOR IT BY SUBSTITUTING ORDINARY RIBBONS AND FEATHERS, AND NATURE'S RICHEST ORNAMENTS, FLOWERS.

>> IT SEEMS HERE IS THE SEED OF SOME AMERICAN VALUES, AND MANNERS THAT EXIST TODAY THAT WE CAN REALLY FIND IN HISTORY.

>> INDEED.

>> I JUST -- VERY INTERESTING.

AND WAR AT THIS TIME SEEMED SO CIVIL.

I AM NOT SURE IF THAT'S JUST MY IMAGINATION, WHEN THEY ARE INVITING THE ENEMY, WHEN THEY HAVE BEEN DEFEATED OR TO DINNER, AND IF THAT WAS NOT TRUE OF THE LOWER RANKS, BUT THERE IS SOMETHING SO DIFFERENT ABOUT IT.

>> INDEED, IT WAS.

BUT, IT WAS JUST IS A SAVAGE WHEN -- IT WAS JUST AS SAVAGE WHEN THEY WERE FIGHTING.

THE TERRIBLE PART OF FIGHTING IN THAT WAR AT THAT TIME WAS THAT THERE WAS ALMOST NO MEDICAL FACILITIES, Y YOU KNOW, AND A MN WHO WAS SHOT WOULD OFTEN DIE FROM A WOUND THAT WOULD BE CONSIDERED VERY MINOR TODAY.

>> AND ALSO, ANOTHER DARK PART OF THAT HISTORY, AT YORKTOWN, ON BOTH SIDES, WERE OFFERED PROMISES THAT WERE NOT KEPT.

EVEN TALK ABOUT KIND OF THE GERM WARFARE IDEA.

HOW IS THAT -- WHAT DID YOU FIND OUT ABOUT BLACK STERN DURING THAT TIME, WELL BEFORE THE CIVIL WAR?

>> WELL, THE BRITISH HAD CAPTURED A LOT OF THE BLACKS IN THE SOUTH, AND SOME OF THEM HAD SMALLPOX OR OTHER DISEASES, AND THEY, AT TIMES, THEY SIMPLY TURNED THEM LOOSE AND PUSHED THEM IN THE DIRECTION OF THE WOULD INFECT THEM.

BUT, ONE OF THE SURPRISES TO ME WAS THAT SO MANY BLACKS FOUGHT IN THE REVOLUTION AND FOUGHT VERY WELL, AND YOU KNOW, THEY WERE PROMISED THEIR FREEDOM, AND I THINK NOT ALWAYS DID THEY GET IT.

BUT THERE WAS, THERE WAS A REGIMENT OF BLACKS IN RHODE ISLAND, WHICH WAS VERY HEROIC, AND THEY DID GET THEIR FREEDOM.

IT WAS TYPICAL OF THAT TIME THAT THEY DID NOT GET PAID AS MUCH AS THE AMERICANS, WHITE AMERICANS.

>> IF THEY GOT PAID.

RIGHT.

>> IF THEY GOT PAID.

>> IT TRULY IS REMARKABLE THAT WE WON THE WAR.

MUCH OF YOUR RESEARCH IS, OF COURSE, FIRST HAND ACCOUNTS, LETTERS, JOURNALS, AND I AM JUST WONDERING WHERE DO YOU FIND THEM AND HOW DO YOU ORGANIZE THIS, YOU KNOW, STUFF OF, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE'S LIVES?

THESE ACCOUNTS TO MAKE SENSE OF IT, TO TURN IT INTO A BOOK.

>> WELL, SOMETIMES IT ISN'T EASY.

BUT, MOST OF THE MATERIAL COMES FROM HIST HISTORY -- FROM HISTOL SOCIETIES.

THE NEW YORK HISTORICAL SOCIETY HAS GIVEN TO THEM, TO HOLD FROM THEIR COLLECTION, SOMETHNG CALLED THE GILDER LAYERMAN COLLECTION, WHICH IS FABULOUS.

IT'S TWO MEN, GILDER AND LAYERMAN, THEY PUT THIS TOGETHER.

THEY HAD BEEN COLLECTING A LOT OF REVOLUTIONARY MATERIAL AS WELL AS A LOT OF MATERIAL ON BLACKS.

AND IT'S JUST A TREASURE HOUSE FOR THE HISTORIANS.

AND YOU KNOW, A LOT OF HISTORICAL SOCIETIES HAVE A LETTER HERE AND THERE, OR SOME DOCUMENTATION, AND IT'S JUST -- THAT'S THE FUN OF WRITING HISTORY, IS YOU GET TO DO THE RESEARCH.

>> AND SEW THEM ALL TOGETHER.

YOUR BOOK ON SARATOGA, RECEIVED AN INCREDIBLE AMOUNT OF PRAISE OF PEOPLE THAT LOVE THIS BOOK.

IT WAS KIND OF CLOSER TO OUR TERRITORY AND AN AREA THAT WE KNOW.

I AM WONDERING, WHICH BOOKS WOULD YOU RECOMMEND OF YOURS TO VERMONTERS THAT ARE INTERESTED, OR MAYBE THERE IS A FAVORITE REVOLUTIONARY WAR STORY THAT A VERMONTER WOULD BE INTERESTED IN?

>> I THINK THAT MOST VERMONTERS, WHO ARE INTERESTED IN HISTORY, WOULD BE INTERESTED IN SARATOGA BECAUSE FOR INSTANCE, I GOT TO THINKING ABOUT IT AFTER I HAD WRITTEN THE BOOK, THAT EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENED IN THERE HAPPENED WITHIN AN HOUR AND A HALF'S DRIVE OF MY HOUSE IN DORSET.

AND THE BATTLEFIELD AT HUBBARDTON AND BENNINGTON AND SARATOGA ARE JUST THE WAY THAT THEY WERE IN 1777.

IT IS REMARKABLE.

YOU CAN GO THERE, IT DOES NOT TAKE MUCH IMAGINATION TO SEE EXACTLY WHAT WENT ON.

IT'S FUN.

>> IS THAT MOUNT INDEPENDENCE?

>> IT'S NEAR, BUT HUBBARDTON IS NEAR WHERE THE AMERICANS RETREATED, AND MOUNT INDEPENDENCE, AND THEY WERE HEADED FOR RUTLAND.

ON THEIR WAY THE BRITISH CAUGHT UP WITH THEM AT HUBBARDTON.

>> AND YOU ALSO, YOU ARE COMMENDED FOR RECOUNTING HOW NATIVE AMERICANS WERE INVOLVED DURING THE WAR, AS WELL.

>> OF COURSE, THEY WERE BADLY TREATED, TOO, BUT THEY WERE LARGELY FIGHTING AGAINST THE AMERICANS BECAUSE THEY HAD, THEY HAD BEEN WITH THE FRENCH FOR A LONG TIME, AND NOW THEY WERE ON THE SIDE OF THE BRITISH BECAUSE WHAT THEY SAW OF THE AMERICANS WERE PEOPLE WHO WERE TAKING OVER THEIR LAND AND HOMES.

>> FROM A HISTORIAN'S POINT OF VIEW AND AN EXPERT ON ONE OF THE GREAT WARS OF LIBERTY, HOW ARE YOU VIEWING IRAQ?

AND THE DIFFICULTIES THERE?

>> WELL, I AM VIEWING IRAQ AS A MISTAKE.

I JUST FEEL THAT WE SHOULD NEVER HAVE GONE IN THERE, AND I KNOW THAT THERE ARE STRONG ARGUMENTS ON THE OTHER SIDE, BUT I JUST FEEL IT WAS A TERRIBLE MISTAKE.

>> WHAT CAN WE LEARN FROM A WAR THAT WAS WAGED 230 YEARS AGO?

WHAT ARE SOME GEMS THAT WE LOOK FOR?

>> WELL, I THINK THAT WHAT ALWAYS IMPRESSES ME ABOUT THE REVOLUTION IS THAT THE PEOPLE WHO REALLY WANT IT WERE THE ONES WHO STUCK WITH IT AND STUCK TO THEIR GUNS, AND AGAINST ALL ODDS, I MEAN, IT WAS SIMPLY INCREDIBLE THAT WE COULD WIN.

AND IT WAS LARGELY BECAUSE OF THE FELLOWS WHO HUNG IN THERE, AND I THINK THAT THE LEADERSHIP OF WASHINGTON IN THIS WAS INSTRUMENTAL, AND BECAUSE HE IN- HE NEVER GAVE UP.

HE MUST HAVE BEEN A VERY CHARISMATIC LEADER TO HAVE ATTRACED PEOPLE AND MADE THEM STAY WITH HIM FOR SO LONG.

>> YET HE REALLY RESISTED BECOMING PRESIDENT, WHICH HAPPENED WHAT, NEARLY 13 YEARS AFTER THE CONSTITUTION WAS WRITTEN.

>> I THINK HE FELT THAT HE HAD DONE HIS BIT, WHICH INDEED, HE HAD.

AFTER ALL, THIS WAS THROWING HIM INTO THE LION'S DEN WITHOUT ANYBODY KNOWING WHAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN TO IT OR WHAT IT WAS GOING TO DO.

THEY HAD VERY LITTLE, IF ANY MONEY, AND YOU KNOW, IT WAS JUST A MIRACLE, THE WHOLE THING.

>> RIGHT, RIGHT.

YOU, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF PEOPLE, THERE HAVE BEEN A LOT OF BOOKS WRITTEN ABOUT THESE PEOPLE, THESE REMARKABLE PEOPLE, AND YOU REALLY ARE WRITING ABOUT EVENTS.

DID YOU FIND THAT HAD NOT BEEN DEALT WITH AS MUCH?

THERE IS A BOOK ON JEFFERSON, AND BOOKS ON WASHINGTON, WHICH OF COURSE, YOU ARE ONE OF THOSE, AND BUT, YOU REALLY TALK ABOUT THESE BATTLES THAT WERE WAGED.

>> WELL, BECAUSE I FELT THAT, I THINK I SAID BEFORE, THE WAR, ITSELF, WAS WHAT THE AMERICANS HAD TO WIN IN ORDER TO GAIN THEIR INDEPENDENCE, AND THAT'S -- I FELT THE BATTLES WERE SO IMPORTANT IN THAT WHOLE THING.

THE MEN WERE IMPORTANT, OBVIOUSLY, IN WHAT THEIR PHILOSOPHIES WERE IMPORTANT, BUT THE FIGHTERS HAD TO FIGHT AND WIN.

>> AND AGAINST ALL ODDS, REALLY, AS YOU SAY.

>> YEAH.

>> AND WHAT ARE YOU WORKING ON NOW?

IT SEEMS YOU ARE, YOU KNOW, A GRANDFATHER OF SEVEN, AND YOU JUST KEEP GOING.

ARE YOU STILL WRITING?

>> YES, I AM WORKING ON A BOOK THAT HAS TO DO WITH FARMING, BECAUSE WE HAD A -- WE HAVE A FARM IN DORSET, AND FOR A LONG TIME IT WAS CERTAINLY A WORKING FARM.

AND THAT HAS LED MY WIFE AND ME BOTH INTO THINKING A LOT ABOUT FARMING IN GENERAL, AND -- >> WE WILL BE LOOKING FOR IT.

RICHARD KETCHUM, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR COMING IN AND TALKING WITH US TODAY.

AND THANK YOU FOR JOINING US ON "PROFILE."