- [Presenter] This "Gumbands" podcast is made possible by The Buhl Foundation, serving Southwestern Pennsylvania since 1927, and by listeners like you.

Thank you.

- [Speaker] Okay, this is "Gumbands" episode, whatever it is, with Rick and Rich.

- Seven?

- Take one.

(chuckles) (film clapper claps) - Eight?

I'm not sure.

Who's doing the intro, you or me?

- [Rich] I'll do the intro.

(lively jazz music) Welcome to "Gumbands".

My name is Rich Capaldi and I work with Rick Sebak, producing these shows.

Usually you'd hear Rick right now, but today we're doing something a little different.

QED producer Rick Sebak is the guest on this episode.

If you've lived in Western Pennsylvania in the past few decades, you may know who Rick is.

Even if you don't know who he is, you may know some of his shows.

- [Presenter] "Pittsburgh A to Z".

- [Presenter] "A Hot Dog Program".

- [Presenter] "Right Beside the River".

- [Presenter] "Downtown Pittsburgh".

- [Presenter] "South Side".

- [Presenter] "North Side Story".

- [Presenter] "The Pennsylvania Road Show".

- [Presenter] "What Makes Pittsburgh Pittsburgh?"

- [Presenter] "The Mon, The Al & The O".

- Rick has been making lots of shows throughout the years, some of which have helped us to learn all about this region we call home.

For this episode, I thought it could be fun to learn a little bit more about Rick.

This is "Gumbands" Episode 008: Rick Sebak.

And we thought that this could be fun today, to talk to you.

- Well, you suggested it.

(Rich chuckles) I would think it is maybe a little premature in the history of "Gumbands", but I know that, you're aware that I have this weird anniversary coming up.

- It's a milestone.

- Well- - A career milestone.

Which is 50 years with public broadcasting.

- Right, it'll be 50 years since I first worked for a public television station, which was in South Carolina.

I was still a student at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, but I got a summer internship at South Carolina Educational Television, working with a Pittsburgh legend, Josie Carey, who helped start WQED.

She was Fred Rogers's producing partner on the first show down here at WQED, which was called "Children's Corner", and I wrote her a letter.

I mean, you know, I sat at a typewriter.

(chuckles) - [Rich] That's how you got the internship?

- Well, I sent her a letter and I said I remembered her from Pittsburgh and I had a fellowship that would partially pay for my summer and would she consider having a summer intern on her children's show that she was making in South Carolina, which I had heard about, called "WHEEE!

", W-H-E-E-E!

And she responded to my letter and she said, you know, "Hey, we'd like to meet you.

Why don't you come down on your spring break," so I did that.

I went to Columbia, South Carolina for the first time.

I stayed in a sleazy little motel on Two Notch Road.

And I went and they seemed to like me, and they said, "Yeah, let's do this.

We'll take you on as a summer intern.

Come back in early June and we'll start then."

So I had to finish up school, probably in early May at Chapel Hill, I drove back to Pittsburgh, got everything together, decided what I needed to take to South Carolina and I drove back to South Carolina, found a place to live and I went to work that first day at South Carolina ETV, which was June 5th, 1973, and it was my birthday.

And I went in and Josie said, "Hey, welcome.

We're so happy you're here.

How are you feeling today?"

And I said, "Great, it's my birthday."

(Rich chuckles) And Josie said, "No, you don't start a new job and say it's your birthday like hoping that we're gonna be nice to you."

(chuckles) And we all laughed about it and everything.

But that's why I remember that I started that job never knowing that how few jobs I would have in my life.

I mean, since college, I've only had two jobs, both in public television, one in South Carolina for 11 years, and now here at South Carolina ETV, I mean here at WQED for 36 years.

So, you know, we're coming up to 50 years of solid, but this year is just the 50th anniversary of me first working for PBS.

The next summer, I was a student in France.

I took a year off and went to France and did my junior year abroad and sort of stayed through that next summer, so I didn't, but then Josie had me back and I used to work, while I was still a student, I would drive from Columbia, South Carolina, from Chapel Hill down to Columbia to work with her.

And it's all I remember.

I would drive late on Friday, often at night.

And I remember one time a cop pulled me over, and he said, "You know, your tail light is out."

He said, "I just wanted somebody to talk to."

And I just thought, I remember that, that the cop just wanted somebody to talk to.

It was the middle of the night and I guess he was falling asleep or something.

So, it worked out okay.

- So if we go back, so you were actively trying to work in television, you know, did you know that?

When did you know you wanted to work in TV or did you know you wanted to work in TV?

- No, not 'till I was in college.

And at Chapel Hill, they had a department, which is now called the College of Communications, but at that time it was called RTVMP, Radio, Television, and Motion Pictures.

I actually started, I think, assuming that I would be a double major in English, I always knew that I would be an English major, English and theater, I'd done a lot of theater in high school and stuff, and my mom helped found Stage 62 in Bethel Park and we always had community theater in our lives.

And as a theater student, on weekends we had to go be talent (chuckles) for a TV workshop in Raleigh.

It was through the RTVMP department.

They were allowed to take over the studio of a commercial station in Raleigh.

And we had to go just be people that they needed, you know, people to be guests or people to be hosts or people to be in a drama or anything, and I went and did that pretty regularly.

And I just thought the guy who was teaching that course was so good, and I said, "I wanna take his course."

And they said, "Well, you have to be a major in RTVMP to take his course."

And I said, "Okay, I'll change my major," you know, and I did.

And I dropped the theater and I went to TV and I don't think I ever looked back, you know.

His name was Paul Nichols.

He had been a director of television during sort of what they used to call the Golden Age of Television, you know, like live dramas and stuff.

And that's the way he taught it, was, you know, you're gonna do this live and you had to do your, whatever project you were doing, you were live.

And I remember you had to come in on time.

You were allowed to be one second off.

And then for every additional second you were off, as far as time was concerned, you lost a letter grade.

So if you were two seconds off, best you could do is a B. You had to come right in 'cause he said that's the way television is, it's time-specific.

So, you know.

And I always liked his classes, but I double majored in English and, you know, that always helps with writing and all of that.

- You, born here, born Pittsburgh, grew up in Bethel?

- Born at South Side Hospital.

My parents had already moved to Bethel Park.

They were both from Hazelwood.

And my dad was in the service.

He was a Navy pilot, I mean, which is pretty incredible.

But he was just a little too young to be in World War II.

I think all during the war he was studying to be a pilot.

And we have nice pictures of him in the South Pacific and stuff, but it's after.

And it wasn't till Ken Burns did "The War" and my father had passed away that I thought, I never asked dad, "Where were you when the bomb was dropped," because that, you know, sort of ended the war in the Pacific.

It had already ended in Europe, and I thought like, "Was dad there?

Was he on route?"

- [Rich] Right.

- And so I had all his stuff and I went through it to see if I could find anything, and I found a program.

He was playing football in Pensacola, Florida the day the bomb was dropped.

- Was he in the service at that time?

- Oh, yeah, yeah.

He was in, you know, a Navy team playing.

And Pensacola is where they had a pre-flight school.

He spent a lot of time at Dartmouth in Vermont, where Fred Rogers went to school for a while, and then he was down there at Pensacola pre-flight.

- [Rich] And your mom worked?

- My mom worked all the time.

You know, she was a student at Carnegie Tech.

So close, I mean, technically, I think we, right now, are on campus.

I think the land that QED is on is on campus and my mom was a student there.

I'm not sure if she did one or two years.

Her family was not very well off.

I mean, my mom was pretty poor.

She lived below the tracks in Hazelwood, but I think it was when she passed away that I found out she was able to go to college at Carnegie Tech on a scholarship from The Buhl Foundation.

- [Rich] Oh really?

- Yeah, and it just, you know, that's so weird because they've been so good to me.

The Buhl Foundation has been my principal funder, and they've sent my mom to college.

- [Rich] That's awesome.

- It is awesome.

It sort of like makes me like, oh, (chuckles) which is the way I've always felt about it.

And she'd actually dropped out to work so that my father could finish at Pitt.

- [Rich] Okay.

- And I think she always had a bit of regret about that.

She went back and she finished her school at Carlow in the early '80s.

Before I came back to Pittsburgh from South Carolina, she graduated from Carlow and, you know, she was so happy to have a college degree, but it was quite a bit after she started.

- Were either of your parents storytellers, writers, readers, did you get that from any of them?

- Wow.

That's interesting.

I don't know if I've ever considered that.

My mom was a great reader, and I think that was a huge influence.

My mom was always reading.

And it's funny, I hear all these things now about people with, you know, upset about kids' access to books and everything.

My mother always said, "I don't care what you're reading as long as you're reading."

And I think that's a good rule.

I don't care what you're reading, you know.

And I know that I learned so much about everything just by, you know.

She didn't care about comic books.

That was fine, you know, as long as you're reading.

But, you know, she was a good talker.

And my dad, however, was a salesman.

And I think all salesmen are good storytellers and very outgoing and all of that.

So yeah, my dad, you know, I'm sure could tell a tale and, you know.

I wish I had some recordings, but I don't.

- So as a kid, what kinda kid were you?

Like, did you like school?

Were you constantly reading?

Did you like television, film, any, all?

- Yeah, I liked those things.

I was a chubby kid.

I can't say that I ever was involved in any sports.

I have great memories of like sled riding and stuff like that on our street.

We had a great street that was a dead end, and so it was always one of the last streets to be plowed and cindered and all of that.

And we could start at the top of our hill and, you know, make a chain of sleds coming down.

And no, I love school.

I always loved school.

And I had an older brother, Skip and he was two years ahead of me in school.

He was 18 months older than me, but I was always jealous of him, you know, being a little bit ahead of me and that was always a driving force, you know.

I gotta- - [Rich] Keep up.

- Keep up with Skip, yes.

And actually I remember in the car.

I can remember being in the car and Skip could read and I couldn't.

And that was like, "Whoa."

And I think I may have told that story, you know, the show that I did here at QED called "Things That Aren't There Anymore" really came about because I was driving through the Liberty Tubes and I remembered signs that, neon signs that used to hang in the tubes that said "Do not cross center line".

Now, it's funny, there's no signs hanging from the ceiling in the Liberty Tubes now, but they were there when I was a kid.

And Skip could read them and I didn't, you know.

And he was like, "I know what that said."

(Rich laughs) (Rick groans) So, you know, yeah.

But I always loved school, and I think I was always a good student.

And I did my first six years at St.

Valentine's in Bethel Park and then sort of followed the family tradition, which Skip had started, of going to the public school for junior high, you know.

I don't know, do we still call it middle school?

I'm never sure anymore.

But yeah, it would be like middle school, but we called it junior high.

It was seventh and eighth grade, separate building, and then on to Bethel Park Senior High and, yeah.

I mean, I feel lucky about all that.

- But in high school, you were an exchange student, right?

- I was an exchange student.

That would've been after my junior year.

- [Rich] Okay.

- Bethel Park, this is still like incredible.

I mean, at that time, I don't know if they still do it, I probably should know.

But at that time, they paid for you to go to be a foreign exchange student.

You know, it wasn't a cost to my family.

It was a set fee and like depending on where you went, you would have a little more spending money or something like that.

And so I went in 1970, it was the summer, I was a foreign exchange student to Rio De Janeiro, Brazil.

And before that, I was the first boy, maybe ever.

It was always girls that went as foreign exchange students, but I always thought that sounded so cool and I had this urge to travel.

And I also didn't speak Spanish.

All the girls would go to the same city.

All the girls from Bethel Park that were foreign exchange students would go to Rosario, Argentina.

It was like, you know, a path that was set up and I think they liked that.

It was a tradition that girls from Bethel Park would go to Rosario, Argentina.

But because I had one semester of Spanish, which I took thinking this will help me look good as a foreign exchange student, I had tons of French.

By the time I was a senior in high school, I was taking French Five because- - [Rich] Oh wow.

- I had, you know, advanced place and everything.

And that was because a kid in my grade school, his mother was a French war bride, Mrs.

Larkin, and she thought she would learn English better if she taught kids French.

So I did that from second grade through sixth grade, and beyond maybe.

We used to go to her house.

She used to come to class, but then after, you know, too many kids moved and changed and the class, nobody, everybody wasn't at the same level in French, she would have six or eight of us at her house.

And I can remember she even taught us how to make her favorite stew, you know, which was really great.

Ragout, R-A-G-O-U-T, that's the French spelling of ragout.

It was a beef and potato stew.

Really excellent with red wine.

And I remember my mother made it, and my mother said, "I put carrots in it," and I can remember Mrs.

Larkin saying, "No, no, no, no.

You do not put carrots in my stew.

That is Irish."

(chuckles) And so, yeah.

But, you know, so I got to go to Brazil, and that was because I think at boy scouts one night there was a guy from Brazil, and I said, "You know, I'm thinking about being, applying for an exchange student."

And he said, "Oh, go to Brasilia."

He said, "You know, the new capital, it's this incredible city.

That's what you wanna do."

And so that's what I put down as my preferred destination, Brasilia.

And then I get notified that I'm going to Rio de Janero instead.

And there was a meeting at Taylor Allderdice High School of all the kids from the Pittsburgh area who were gonna go to Brazil as foreign exchange students.

I'm gonna guess we were 30, and we went there that night.

And of the 30, 6 of us were going to Rio and the other 24 were going to Sao Paulo.

And just the way you think as a high school student, I think I'm like, "Oh, everybody's going to Sao Paulo and I have to go to Rio," never knowing that I hit the jackpot.

Everyone who was in Sao Paulo, all they really wanted to do was go to Rio because Rio is the incredible city.

I mean, Sao Paulo's good but, you know, Rio is amazing.

And so, yeah.

And I just had a spectacular summer as a foreign exchange student.

I love talking about it.

- Yeah, it was a World Cup that year, right?

- I arrived on a Thursday and I think the World Cup was on Sunday.

And Pele was playing for Brazil, it was in Mexico City.

And I remember, I didn't know who Pele was and the guys in Brazil, "What do you mean you don't know who Pele is?"

I said, "I don't know who Pele is."

And there was like, it was inconceivable to them that I wouldn't know who Pele was.

And yes, so I was there.

My family spoke very little English.

The Vargas, the Oliveras.

And the fathers had worked for the Bank of Brazil and he had been to America.

And he spoke a little bit, but not a lot and wasn't, they thought, "Hey, I was there to learn Portuguese," you know.

We don't really wanna talk English to you.

- [Rich] Did you pick it up, the Portuguese?

Did you pick it up?

- Yeah, well, you have to, yeah.

But nothing written, or very little written.

My Brazilian mother, Dona Lelia she would sometimes sit with me at the dining room table and we would do, you know, cup, what was it, copa or, I always, there's different words (speaks in foreign language), I forget what's a bottle and what's a cup and all of that.

But, yeah.

But I hung out with, you know, my two Brazilian brothers, Edu and Kiku.

Edu was my age and we became great friends and, yeah.

While I was there, I was on a program called International Fellowship out of Buffalo, New York and there was a tragic accident.

Everybody on International Fellowship who went to Peru died in a plane crash on their way to Machu Picchu.

So it upset that, you know, structure of their organization and they were willing to consider, you know, weird changes.

And Edu said he didn't want to come to America unless he could come to my house.

And so we said, "Can we have a direct exchange," which they didn't like to do.

And they said, "You can do a direct exchange if you take another one first."

So we had two foreign exchange students come to our house in Bethel Park, Roberto Gandara Guzman from Guatemala, and then Edu came like days before Christmas.

- [Rich] You stay in touch with them at all?

- I don't.

I'm not in touch with either one of them, and that's a little bit disappointing.

I've looked them up on Google and stuff and nothing has come up.

But yeah, no, it was a great experience and one that I loved.

- [Rich] And so you came back and you finished school?

- I came back, I did my senior year at Bethel and- - What made you go to UNC?

- When it was time to apply to colleges, I was reading "Look Homeward, Angel" by Thomas Wolfe and he describes Chapel Hill in that book, he calls it Pulpit Hill, but it was pretty obvious what it was.

And I just thought like, "Oh, I kinda like this."

And I applied to three schools: Harvard, Yale, and UNC at Chapel Hill.

- [Rich] Okay.

- I was not accepted at Harvard.

I was accepted on the waiting list at Yale.

And Chapel Hill was like, "Please come here.

We'll put you in the Honors Program," da-da-da, da-da-da-da.

And so I said, you know, like, "Okay, I'm gonna go to the one that really wants me."

And yeah, and I loved it.

It was a part of the country I'd never thought I would get to, but now that I love.

When I was in the Carolinas, I always said Pittsburgh was home.

When I moved back to Pittsburgh, the Carolinas seemed like home 'cause I spent 16 years there.

- So you went through school at Chapel Hill, you got your internship, you also went and studied in France?

- Right.

I spent my summer with Josie in Columbia, South Carolina, at South Carolina ETV, and then I went and did a year in France.

And so that was '73, '74.

And I graduated in '75.

- Lyon.

- I was in Lyon, yes.

You know, I say it's very much the Pittsburgh of France.

- [Rich] Why?

- Two rivers come together.

I mean, they don't make a new, you know, it's more sort of standard.

The Rhone and Saone come together at Lyon, and continue on as the Rhone.

The Saone is a smaller river.

We got that and then there's a big hill with a church on it just reminded me of Pittsburgh, you know.

But it's an industrial city with a great arts community and everything, so it was very Pittsburgh-y, and I liked it.

And also, many people still acknowledge it's the world capital of gastronomy.

You really eat well in Lyon.

And at that time, the most famous chef there was Paul Bocuse and he had his famous restaurant about 20 miles north of downtown Lyon, I think.

And we were supposed to go there for my friend Jim Bird's 21st birthday and he got appendicitis, and his birthday is May 21st, which I remember 'cause it was also my mother's birthday.

And he was in the hospital, so we couldn't go as we had planned to go to Paul Bocuse's.

We had waited all year to do it.

And he said, "Your birthday's coming up."

And I said, "Yeah."

So we went for my 21st birthday.

On my 20th birthday, I started at South Carolina ETV.

On my 21st birthday, I went to dinner at Paul Bocuse's restaurant, and just call it Bocuse's.

And he was on the cover of Time Magazine that year, so he was a really famous chef.

- And so then when you finished school, you're still working at SC- - Well, no.

I had a good six months of job hunting.

- Oh, really?

But you stayed down there?

- No, I came home, you know.

I remember my dad apologizing.

He said, "I don't know anybody in the business you want to go into."

And I know that he said, "I don't know how to help you."

And I said, "You know, hey, you know, I'm not expecting you to."

But yeah, I spent about six months terrible, you know, yeah.

(Rich chuckles) It's so different now.

I mean, back then you had to like, you know, type resumes and, you know, you could have them reproduced but everybody always suggested, "Oh no, make your resume specific to the job you're applying for."

And I was looking at ad agencies and things like that, and then someone called me from South Carolina ETV and said, "Hey, we have a project that we're gonna do for the federal government.

We need a production assistant, and are you available?"

And I said yes.

And so I drove back to South Carolina.

And it was an energy conservation film and, you know, it was about what you could do to make your house more efficient and all of that, it was right after the first big energy crisis.

And I thought the script was terrible.

(Rick and Rich chuckle) I mean, I knew people, but I was essentially alone and I had a little apartment in Shandon, which is a neighborhood of Columbia, South Carolina, and I rewrote the script.

- [Rich] As a production assistant?

- As a production assistant.

I just thought like, "Here's what I would do," I mean, on a typewriter.

Not on a Word processor, but on a typewriter.

And I mean, incredible chutzpah.

I took it to the writer.

- [Rich] Oh.

(chuckles) - And like, you know, I guess I'm eternally grateful to her because, you know, she didn't like go like, "Who the hell you are?"

It was more like, "Oh, this is really good."

She said, "But you know what, my script has been approved by like six government agencies and we're not turning back."

She said, "But we have an opening for a writer."

And she said, "This would be a really good sample to give of what you can do."

And so I said, "Oh, okay."

As a production assistant, I was working in a building across the street from where the writers were, but I applied for that job and I got it.

And so then that started my 11 years at Columbia, at South Carolina ETV.

- And did you start getting into, like, making your own documentaries, producing- - Not immediately.

We acted somewhat as an ad agency for state government.

The public television in South Carolina is a state agency.

And so we do a lot of things, you know, slideshows and public service announcements and all of that, I did a lot of that.

(chuckles) Also, I started to write for the newspaper in Columbia, South Carolina, The State.

And a girl I knew in college had gone to work for Doubleday, the publisher, and she, I don't know if she called me, yeah, I think she called me.

I mean, we didn't text at the time.

She called me and she said, "Rick, one of my things I have to do is put new names on our reviewers list.

Would you mind if I put your name there 'cause you'd always used to review books for The Daily Tar Heel newspaper in Chapel Hill?"

And I said, "No, go do it."

And she said, "Okay."

And I started, every week or 10 days, I would get a big box of books on my front porch in Columbia, South Carolina.

And I loved it.

It was great.

I got pretty much everything that I think that Doubleday was printing.

And I wasn't doing anything with them, and so I thought I should, I knew that there was a book page every Sunday in the local paper, and so I called that editor and I said, you know, "I used to work for The Daily Tar Heel in Chapel Hill.

I reviewed books and restaurants and plays and all of that."

And he said, "Come over, I'll meet," you know, "Let's meet," and I did.

And he said, "Great, let's try it."

He goes, "Here are the books I have."

He also got books from all the publishers, not just from Doubleday.

And he said, "Take three, pick one to write about."

And he said, "If I run it, I'll give you 20 bucks and you get to keep all the books."

- [Rich] Nice.

- And so that started it.

And I became a regular reviewer.

I was reviewing almost every week in the paper.

Usually fiction, occasionally non-fiction.

But Beryl Dakers was another producer at South Carolina ETV, she did a show called "Art's the Thing", and it was an art show, and one day she said to me, she said, "Hey, you write those reviews in the paper.

I really like them.

Why don't you come read them on my show like Gene Shalit does on 'The Today Show'?"

I said, "Okay, cool."

So I didn't even have to rewrite it, I could just read them.

And I started to do that for Beryl, I mean, you know.

And I think I'd probably done maybe two or three when the guy who had the nightly show on South Carolina ETV, which was called Carolina Journal, he said, "I like those things you're doing for Beryl.

Come and do them on my show.

You have a bigger audience."

And I said, "Okay."

(chuckles) And so I did that.

And I think I only did one for him, that was Tom Fowler.

I don't think, I just like maybe one or two book reviews, and he said, "You ride your bike to work every day."

And I said, "Yeah, I do."

And he said, "I want you to do a story about riding your bike to work every day."

He said, "I'll give you a cameraman.

He'll help you and you can put it together and all of this."

And the next thing I know, I never did another book review.

I just did little stories.

I did stories about that I did the New York Times crossword puzzle every morning in the local hotdog shop.

And, you know, it blossomed from there and I started doing all these little stories.

And I remember one that I especially like about St.

Patrick's Day in Five Points, which is an area in Columbia, South Carolina, near the university.

It's where Hootie and the Blowfish are from.

And my friend Buck and I did a thing about St.

Patrick's Day and it was really fun.

We used the Pogues music and it was great fun, and that sort of seemed to be a turning point.

But Buck and I enjoyed working together.

His name's Buck Brinson.

And Buck and I enjoyed working together.

And my dad got sick and I decided I wanted to come see him, and Buck said, "I wanna ride with you."

And I said, "Okay."

So Buck and I drove from Columbia, South Carolina, here to Pittsburgh to see my dad.

And en route, Buck said, "We should do a show about the state dance of South Carolina."

(tongue clicks) And I said, "Oh, that's kinda cool."

And the state dance had just been voted on in South Carolina, it's the Shag, which is kind of a slow jitterbug that people did at the beach, starting around the time of World War II but still people do the Shag in South Carolina.

And so when we went back, we talked to some people and a woman there helped us raise some money through tourism and all of that, and next thing you know we had made a film.

I remember the head of production, Peter Anderson, he said, "Our video equipment's really busy.

If you'll do this on film and keep your ratio really low," in other words, you know, like most, you know, films and videos have a ratio of how much you shoot versus how much you use.

And he said, "If you can keep your ratio like below 10 to 1 or something like that, I'll let you do this on film rather than on video," and we did.

And Buck and I had worked out a system.

If we were doing an interview like this, he would stop the film, the audio would continue.

I guess it was kind of a podcast-y kind of technique.

And then after we heard it, then I could say, "Oh, you know what, I'm gonna ask you one question again," and I would just like hit Buck and say roll 'cause that's the answer that I want, that one thing.

And so it worked out.

And, you know, we had great response to that show "Shag" in South Carolina.

Both Carolinas do the Shag, but it's the official state dance of South Carolina.

And then it just, from then on, and then Buck and I won a little competition at the Spoleto Arts Festival, which happens every year at, in Charleston, South Carolina.

And we got to go to Australia for 28 days, and we covered the Spoleto Arts Festival when it went to Australia.

And we were in Melbourne and it was just excellent.

He had said, Buck's always looking for, you know, other projects, "Okay, we're gonna do a show about the arts festival, but let's also do a show about traveling in Australia."

- [Rich] Right.

- And I said, "Okay."

And so I asked for permission for that, and they said, "Nope, no extra days.

This can't appear to be a junket.

It has to just be you're going to cover the Spoleto Arts Festival."

But we realized we would have, you know, time when you couldn't do, and so we made that extra little documentary about traveling in Australia at the same time.

- [Rich] The Wacky, what's it called?

- "Slightly Wacky Aussie Doco", yes.

And so we did a 90-minute program about the arts festival and we did a half hour thing called "The Slightly Wacky Aussie Doco".

That was, you know, 1985, '86.

And shortly thereafter, another friend who had gone on to work for the public television station, he had worked, we had worked together in South Carolina, he was in Denver, Colorado.

And he called me and he said, "Rick, there's an ad in Broadcasting Magazine, you should answer."

And I said, "Why?"

And he goes, "It's in Pittsburgh."

And I said, "Uh, do I wanna go back to Pittsburgh?"

And he said, "You never see a big station like WQED advertising for a producer.

You should answer their ad," and so I did.

I was like obviously riding high, having just been to Australia and everything, but I sent "The Slightly Wacky Aussie Doco" as a sample of my work.

And WQED responded and said, "Why don't you come visit your parents?

We'd like to meet you."

And so that's how I got my job here at WQED, that thing that I made about Australia.

- Did you know what the, when you started here at QED as a local producer, right, did you know what the expectations were for you or what did you think you were gonna be doing?

Little stories, full 30, 60-minute?

- No.

Well, yeah, Nancy Lavin, who's the woman who hired me here, she was the executive producer for local programming.

WQED didn't do a lot of local programming then in the '80s.

We were primarily a national producer.

Actually, when I started here, we were still making "National Geographic Specials" here.

We already knew that they were leaving, but they were still being made here.

And like back where my office is now, that was a film editing unit for "National Geographic".

But we did a lot of science shows and really extraordinary things, "Planet Earth" and, you know.

So we followed that up.

You know, Nancy had been hired, I think, to try and beef up local programming, and so that's what started.

There were no rules.

We could do sort of whatever we want and, you know.

You know that I just recently realized that right after I came here, Mayor Caliguiri, no, no, not the mayor.

I did Mayor Caliguiri's funeral with Nancy Polinski, but also Prince Charles came to town, now King Charles III, and we just recently found that tape and, you know.

Those memories of, you know, Pittsburgh seemed like the center of the universe after being in South Carolina for a while, so it was fun.

And we made that show called "Remaking Cities".

I did a show about transplants, and that's the first show I did here.

It was a half hour.

So that was sort of, I think, what they expected.

And I always tell the tale, "I didn't know how goofy I could be."

You know, in South Carolina, I always tried to make things unexpected.

And the show I made about organ transplants, because in 1987, when I came here, Pittsburgh was the world capital of organ transplants.

More organ transplants were done in Pittsburgh that year than in the rest of the world combined.

- [Rich] Wow.

- Yes.

We were the world capital of organ transplants.

And we did a show called "Transplant Town".

We used to be the Steel City, now we're the Transplant Town.

And I didn't know how goofy I could be, but I had this weird thing and I just thought we could use organ music.

(Rich laughs) So all the music in that show "Transplant Town" is organ music.

Nothing is ever said about it, but I just thought, oh, if someone recognizes it, they'll say, "Oh yeah, it's all organ music."

And at the time, we used to have to have an all-staff screening of everything that was produced.

I'm glad that's not happening right now.

(Rick and Rich chuckle) But at that thing, Nancy Polinski started to laugh when she realized, "Oh my God, all this music is organ music and it's a show about organ transplants," so.

You know, just play on words and something funny that I was happy about, so.

- When did the "Pittsburgh History Series" at QED start with your shows?

- I'm gonna say probably early '90s.

I'd already done a couple things.

I'd done Kennywood, I'd done "Things That Aren't There Anymore", I think.

And we heard about LA in the current, which is the PBS public television newspaper.

There was an article that someone in San Francisco, I'm sorry, in Los Angeles, someone in Los Angeles was doing a series called "The Los Angeles History Series".

And Nancy Lavin said, "You know what, there's always history in those things you make.

Why don't we call them the 'Pittsburgh History Series'," and so we did.

We came up with that little logo and it, you know, we didn't limit it to six, we just said, and we went back and put that logo, rebranded those first shows, "Kennywood Memories", "Transplant Town", and "Things That Aren't There Anymore", we put that logo on the front of them so they're all now considered the "Pittsburgh History Series".

And, you know, I'm extremely proud of it.

It's just amazing.

- I'm not gonna ask you where ideas come from or, you know, where your ideas come from 'cause they come from anywhere and there's like no shortage.

- Right.

- But when you do have an idea that you wanna pursue, what makes you think that it could be a possible show or it could be a topic that other people would like?

- Oh, that's probably gut.

Probably, you know, yeah.

And, you know.

And always the thought.

Can I spend six months on this?

'Cause I used to, I mean, that's still about how much we would spend on a show, an hour-long documentary.

And I remember, I mean, as an example of that, when we started, start to do national shows for PBS, I proposed that we do hot dogs and amusement parks at the same time.

So we would try to find cities where there was a nice old amusement park and a great hot dog place.

And always had the same crew, and the crew thought no one would ever watch that hot dog show.

But they loved working on the amusement park show.

And both have had a nice career, or a nice reaction, but the hot dog show became far bigger than the great old amusement parks.

And, you know, it was just fun.

But it was always just me thinking like, "Oh, I would like to watch a program on hot dogs."

- [Rich] Yeah.

(chuckles) - So that's why we did it.

- But your first national docs were, documentaries, were "Shore Things" and "Ice Cream", right?

- Right, "Ice Cream" and "Shore Things".

We got to do the national programs for PBS because of the "Pennsylvania Diners" show.

- [Rich] Okay.

- It had been a big success here in Pittsburgh.

And we always sent them to PBS in DC or Virginia, or wherever they were, and they would always say, "Ah, it's too local.

You know, these Pittsburgh shows, too local."

And then when we sent the "Diner" show, they said, "You know what, everybody knows this kind of restaurant.

Let's give this a national airing."

It was probably, I'm gonna guess 70 or 80 minutes long.

They said, "Cut it down to an hour and we'll run it nationally."

And we got really great ratings.

That was the key back then, you know.

It seems funny now because ratings, I don't think, anybody even talks about them.

But Nielsen ratings were big and there were several cities across America was like, was number one in the market for the hour that it was on.

And it was also the time when people used to click through channels.

- [Rich] Right.

- Clickers were new on your TV.

And I think if you were watching and you would just click through and, "What's that," and it was an unusual a show about diners, and so we profited from that as well.

And because the "Diner" show, "Pennsylvania Diners & Other Roadside Restaurants" was so popular, PBS said, "What else would you like to do," and I made a list of 10 things, on which was "Ice Cream" and "Shore Things" or as I always say non-environmental reasons why people like to go to the beach.

We don't really talk about the ocean or the sand or anything like that.

It's really just other fun stuff that you get to do at the beach.

So with saltwater taffy and lifeguards and, you know, all of that kinda stuff, so.

Fishing, I remember we had a great time.

- Yeah, what shows have you enjoyed making the most?

You know, whether it's on the road or locally or, you know, memories with the crew.

- Well, I always say, you know, I love the Pittsburgh shows probably more than the national shows, only because no one can love a national show the way Pittsburghers love a Pittsburgh show.

And so, you know, I love them as a group, but I often say that, you know, the program that I think of as a turning point is "Hot Dogs".

Because it was the first time, and there would've been hot dogs and great old amusement parks, I got to pick my crew and say, "I wanna work with this person, and this person, and this person," and that made a big difference.

Before that, there was often like, "Oh, you're gonna have to go on the road with this."

And when you go on the road, you are a family.

It's a little bit like you're married.

You're spending a lot of time together.

And if you're not happy with the other people, it can be like, "Uh, okay, another day on the road."

But for those shows, I got to pick my crews and I really loved that, and so.

But, you know, like the show "Houses Around Here", I always say it's my favorite of the not famous programs, it's one of the "Pittsburgh History Series", but we got to go around and look in houses.

And I always think it's funny when you see a magazine about houses, there's very seldom anyone in the pictures, it's always just the furniture and the landscape and all that.

But I wanted to do a show about houses where we would meet the people that lived there.

So I like that.

But, you know, they are very much my children and, you know, it's hard to say who's my favorite or all of that but, you know, it's, the other night I just, I was looking at something and a list, "History of Pittsburgh in 17 Objects" came up and I just thought, "Wow, I haven't thought about that program in a while."

And after about six months, it's as though someone else made them and they're fun for me to watch as, "Oh, I forgot that we did that," you know, so.

And, you know, I can't think of any that make me cringe.

- Okay, well, that's good.

I think that's a good sign.

How about your style?

You know, is it called a scrapbook history style?

You know, do you categorize your style or is it just the way you tell stories, this is just how you wanna do it?

- That's true for a large part of it.

It's just the way I think, I guess.

And actually I'm aware, because we've done so many, that each of my shows is a series of short story, short pieces that there's not anyone that has like an overall theme.

I don't think it ends up being little stories all strung together.

And, you know, I didn't wanna appear, I appear more, in recent things and in this "Gumbands" podcast, but I used to just, I didn't wanna, I love public television and I didn't want it to look like local news television where the reporter is a major focus.

I want it to be a voice, and that's the way I am in almost all of my major, you know.

Maybe when we get to "It's Pittsburgh" and a lot of other stuff, I start to appear in some of the stories, but very little.

And then in "Nebby", you see me a couple of times, too, I think.

But I still like what I consider classic documentary style.

- What show do people talk to you the most about?

- "Kennywood Memories".

- "Kennywood"?

- Yeah, I always think that when I die, that's what I'll say.

(Rich laughs) Man who made "Kennywood Memories" dies.

But I know that I also bolster that because when we were doing "Nebby" I went back and found the old "Kennywood" tapes and we did two more half hours that "Kennywood Summer" and "Don't Stand Up", which was all stuff we shot back in 1988 for "Kennywood Memories" that we never used but it was good.

And so that was fun to do that.

And that, you know.

You know, every now and then it's just someone will say, "You know, I grew up watching 'Kennywood Memories' and," yeah, and the number of people that say, "I know that show by heart," it's very humbling.

- And you did interview with Fred Rogers, right?

- That was right after I came here.

I did a long interview with Fred Rogers.

- August Wilson?

- August Wilson.

He was a Pittsburgher of the Year.

And we used to do a show every year for Pittsburgh Magazine's Pittsburgher of the Year and that's why I got to go to New York and interview August Wilson.

- And out of all the interviews you've done, do you have one that stands out out of all the people you've talked to?

- That's funny, yeah.

I mean, those are obviously.

And I tend to not do personality journalism or whatever you wanna call it.

I don't have a lot of famous people in my shows.

I more enjoy interviewing people that normally aren't on television.

But when people ask me that about an interview that I'm really proud of, I always like to point out that in "Stuff That's Gone", a show that I did, there's an interview with Wendy King, who worked for KDKA Radio.

She and her husband, Ed King did a show called "Party Line".

And my grandmother and my mother were regular listeners of "Party Line".

It was on KDKA Radio for like 30 years.

And late at night, sometimes from 9 to 11, it was a call-in show.

People called in, but you never heard the caller.

You just heard the host, Ed and Wendy, and then they usually had a third guy, a third person who would be with them.

And they would say, you know, like, "Oh, we have a caller on the line who wants to know, you know, where's the world's oldest rollercoaster," and then people would try to respond and all this, and they would talk about anything.

And I remember that show very fondly.

But I knew that Ed King had passed away, around 1970 I think, and I thought I wanna do something about "Party Line".

And I called Wendy, and she said, "No, I don't wanna talk about it."

But then I think she had seen some of my stuff and she goes, "But I like your programs," blah, blah, blah.

We talked and we got, you know, we established a relationship and then I kept, I would call her every and say, "Have you considered again?

Would you do this?"

Then one day she called me and she said, "I've decided I would do this if you will do it in my attic."

- [Rich] Hmm.

- And I said, "Well, oh."

And she goes, "That's where all the boxes are from 'Party Line'."

And it sounds to me like so ideal.

"Yes, yes, we'll go to your attic and do an interview," and so we did.

And I always think very fondly of that.

And she was great obviously.

And it was a voice that I remembered from my childhood.

And, you know, sometimes people say that to me, "Oh, I grew up listening to you with 'Kennywood Memories' and stuff," and they go, "That's like Wendy King".

It's a voice that you know from your childhood.

- So, what, 50 years have gone by that you've been in the business, what have you loved most about the past 50 years, working in this industry?

- Well, I know that I love public television and I love what it does.

Public broadcasting, maybe I should say.

But I think the thing that I love most is just the constant variety, you know.

Like, even within "Gumbands", we cover a wide range of topics and that's what I love.

I love that there seem to be few limits and I don't get stuck- - [Rich] Right.

- With a subject, you know.

That's, I guess, partially an earlier question, too, that, you know, what's subjects do I wanna deal with.

Ones that have open-ends that I can, you know, consider and talk about in, you know, various aspects.

And how does food come into this, 'cause I always like to figure out food.

Food seems to touch everything.

Even when we did cemeteries for national show, we found a restaurant called Six Feet Under down in Atlanta.

And that was great.

It was excellent, you know.

So, yeah, the variety and the surprises.

Even now, I mean I've been working on Pittsburgh for 30 some years.

- [Rich] Right.

- But Pittsburgh still surprises me and I love that.

- I think that variety and leaving it open-ended is what, when people consume your shows and they're watching 'em, it's what makes it, makes you feel part of the community too, because it covers so much, you know.

It's inclusive rather than exclusive.

So I wanna ask you some more fun questions, Rick.

What shows do you like to watch?

Do you like to watch TV?

- I watch very little TV.

I like to watch John Oliver on HBO.

I think that's the show that I most look forward to.

- [Rich] Okay.

- Which is kind of odd.

I don't know why, but, yeah.

And it's weird right now 'cause there's a writer's strike on, but I do see late night comedians.

I see, you know, Jimmy Kimmel and Jimmy Fallon and, you know, especially like Seth Meyers.

He has some nice Pittsburgh connections, too, which I really like.

I watch "60 Minutes".

I haven't been watching, I used to always watch "CBS Sunday Morning", but I've been walking in the mornings, and so I don't watch it as much as I used to.

But, you know, I'm not a big TV watcher.

And actually more concerning to me is I realize I read less than I used to.

And I think that's because we have phones that we look at and, you know, I do Duolingo when I have 15 minutes to spare and I sometimes play solitaire.

And, you know, it's time when I, I think in the past I might've just been reading.

- What's a perfect day for Rick Sebak?

If you have the day off from QED- - Oh, a day off.

Well, I always now I start with this walk.

I start every morning.

It's a weird habit that I develop because I did this diabetes prevention program through UPMC and- - [Rich] And what's the total weight loss, if you don't mind me asking?

- I don't mind you asking.

It's about 150 pounds, which is like astounding to me because it wasn't that difficult.

And I didn't have to have surgery or anything like that.

I just did it by watching what I ate and trying to increase my activity.

And the activity that I've increased is walking.

And I try to walk four miles every morning.

But, you know, and so that's a thing that I get in my head and now I have to do it.

And I love the fact that I know my neighbors better than before and people, you know, honk their horns.

And I always think I wanna tell everyone, you don't know how dark your windshield is.

'cause I think people expect me to, but it's hard to see people in cars, you know, unless you have a convertible and then everybody can see you.

- [Rich] Which you have a convertible.

- I know.

I have a convertible, so that makes you more visible.

But, you know, I don't know.

I do love to drive and I love this car more than any car, so I would love to go for a long drive.

I still love to drive down Route 88.

I did a show for "Nebby" called "A Short History of Route 88".

I find that, in my past life, I used to travel a lot to find stuff to eat, and I'm trying to do that less.

And my sister turned me on to thrift stores, and I use that, I think, as a substitute.

I like to stop at a thrift store.

And so I know where Goodwills are all over town, and Red, White & Blue, and The Salvation Army, and all those things.

I love to just walk through a thrift store.

And I don't know, sometimes people are surprised to see me.

They're like, "Oh, you're in a thrift store."

I said, "Yeah, 'cause like, you know."

But I think I also got a little carried away with it.

I've become a shirt-a-holic.

And I thought about doing a show about that, about the fact that, you know, shirts, I just think we don't know enough about shirts.

- [Rich] That's a pretty good idea.

- And even just the fact that like every tag in a men's shirt says where it's made, made in Mauritius, made in Nicaragua, you know, and I just think it connects us to the world in a weird kinda way, but, you know.

I also know that there's like terminology that I wish I knew more about.

Like, I wish I knew what you call that little button that's on your cuff.

Do you know, like when you- - [Rich] Yeah, I have no idea.

- Yeah, I'm sure that there's a, you know, tailors must have a word for that, for that little button that's there and, you know, every piece of a shirt I just find interesting.

So I say I'm a shirt-a-holic.

But, you know, I do love, every Wednesday night I play Records, that makes for a great day.

And, you know, that came about during the pandemic as well, when I heard that they played Records at this bar in Squirrel Hill, and I said, "I wanna do that," and they said, "We'd love to have you," and I've been doing it for, I think, I can't tell if it's two years now, I say over almost three years maybe.

- [Rich] Records?

- Yeah.

- [Rich] Oh, that's going into the pandemic, beginning of- - Yeah, yeah.

No, no, it's definitely mid-pandemic because I started it when the bar owner, Pete Kurzweg, it was his birthday and I took him some cookies that I'd made.

And he said, I gotta go 'cause I'm playing Records.

And I said, "What do you mean you're playing Records?"

And so, you know.

He still comes in and, he has a great memory.

So last night, we had two themes.

We were playing geography, songs that have a place name in the title and beer.

And I was impressed, he thought of that Tom Waits song, "Warm Beer and Cold Women", and it was perfect.

That was really, you know, I just love the fact that he just, off the top of his head, "Oh, there's that Tom Waits song about warm beer and cold women."

So, you know, I love that.

I love playing Records.

I don't know, I love hanging around at the house and putzing.

I love sitting on my front porch, I still do.

I started that during the pandemic and I still like that.

- What do you like about living in Pittsburgh?

- That's a really good question.

I love the variety of, you know, I love the fact that, as the 19th century became the 20th century, I think Pittsburgh was a world capital.

The richest men in the world lived here.

You know, Westinghouse figures out alternating current with help from Tesla.

And oil is first pumped from the ground in Titusville.

I mean, we were a world center of all kinds of innovation, and I think we still profit from that and it makes us very interesting.

As, I don't know, what do we call ourselves, a middle-sized city, you know?

I mean, we're a big city but, you know, not a giant one- - [Rich] Right.

- And I just like that.

And I love our topography and I love our neighborhoods and I love the crazy people who live here, so, you know, what more can you ask for, you know, and I love learning more and more about it all the time.

- How about favorite places to eat?

- No, I won't do that.

- [Rich] You won't do that?

(Rick laughs) - There's too many.

I have favorite places to eat and I don't wanna hurt anybody's feelings, but, well, I mean, I can tell you.

You know that I love Maenam Thai, which is the Thai restaurant in Blawnox that's run by Supannee Khansuwan, and I know her husband, Kevin Yenerall and they've been very nice to me.

And I love, still love, Amel's in Rankin, which is I say an old steelworker bar that has incredibly good food.

But, you know, I also love new places.

I love Mitch's Barbecue.

We've been to Mitch's Barbecue together up in Warrendale.

And, you know, the list goes on and on.

I'm trying to think, you know.

There's a new breakfast place in Regent Square that I haven't been to yet called the Famous Cafe.

I look forward to that.

But I also will always love the Pamela's, the P&G Diner in Millvale inside the Lincoln Pharmacy, which is, you know, I think my go-to breakfast place, so.

I used to always say I loved as well Enrico Biscotti when they were serving breakfast, now they're just lunch, I think, since the pandemic.

But I missed that breakfast.

It was one of my favorite places to go for breakfast.

But, you know, I will go anywhere and try anything.

I have no limits.

And, you know, I always enjoy eating.

- Rick, congratulations on 50 years.

- I thank you.

I thank you for this opportunity to chat about all kinds of crazy things.

- [Presenter] This "Gumbands" podcast is made possible by The Buhl Foundation, serving Southwestern Pennsylvania since 1927, and by listeners like you.

Thank you.