The painting depicts a family -the mother and child -the father and also -an older child.

-As they're descending ladder -and they're crossing the -the border wall into a -into America or further -into the United States.

-This is Rigoberto Gonzalez, he's a painter And what you need to know for now is that at -one point, his artwork hung -in the Smithsonian Museum.

-Now, he couldn't show -his work there if he tried.

In August the Smithsonian's director, Lonnie Bunch, -got a letter -from the white House.

-It had some news for Lonnie -and her work.

-She was told that the famous -institution had 120 days -to comply with -what the administration said -would be a comprehensive -review of its works -and content, said it was important -that our national museums -reflect the unity, progress -and enduring values that -define the American story.

-This call -for an audit of the works -at the Smithsonian -wasn't a suggestion.

-It was the result -of an executive order -order number one -for 253, titled -Restoring Truth and Sanity -to American History.

-And this painting made -by Rigoberto was -specifically highlighted -by Trump's White House -as an example of the kind -of art the administration doesn't want at federal sites and institutions that get a lot of their funding from the U.S.

-government.

-Like the Smithsonian.

-It has some border -wall at their back.

-also items on the on -the bottom of the painting.

-some of those -items are symbolic of, -the dystopian world -that they are coming into -or that we live in, -the reality -of American culture, -some old newspaper -that has a Trump impeachment -and that started to -symbolize -anti-immigrant sentiment -that the immigrants -are coming into.

-Often times people think that -immigrants come to the -country and its like, a -happy ending.

-You know, they lived -happily ever after.

-But as their setting foot -in America, -theres a strong anti- -immigrant sentiment.

-Theres garbage that -is fast food containers -to symbolize the dangers of, -the American diet.

-There's a beer can to -symbolize substance abuse.

-There's -an old cell phone case -to symbolize our addiction -to digital media, -also a Victoria's Secret -ad that symbolizes -oversexualized consumerism.

-You know, we see attractive -people being used to sell us -all kinds of things.

-Rigoberto lives in Texas, -about ten miles -from the border into Mexico, -and he's Mexican himself, -the youngest of five -siblings.

They came here around middle school and high school age.

-He says previous -to moving here, -the American history -he learned about -never had a shiny veneer.

He learned about the struggles -people of color -were dealing with.

-So in a lot of ways, -this directive to censor -something as subjective -as art -hasn't really shocked him.

-He says, eh -America, it's -many things to many people.

-Always has been.

I wanted to talk to Rigoberto -because his even keeled -diplomacy -feels -a little shocking to me.

-I mean, for all intents -and purposes, -he could be livid right now -feeling targeted, bullied, -given that he's -a Mexican immigrant himself.

-But he doesn't feel -that way.

-In fact, it's -quite the opposite.

-I was happy -I was I was happy -that the painting -had made a statement -and it had, it -had, disturbed -and created discomfort -on the administration -that probably feels -very powerful -by intimidating people.

-And so I was very happy -and I wear their -disapproval -as a badge of honor.

-From Vermont Public -this is homegoings, -a show that invites you -to eavesdrop -on candid conversations -with people -who will challenge -what you think you know.

-Today, a conversation with -artist Rigoberto Gonzalez, -in a newsletter -from the white House -as an example of artworks -and exhibitions -deemed objectionable -or divisive.

-Rigoberto says nope.

-the realities -and struggles of migration.

-This is Homegoings.

-We're a proud member of the -NPR network.

-Welcome home.

-When did -you make this painting?

-Rigoberto?

-The painting was started in -2019 and then completed -during the pandemic.

-So you had a lot of time -and did it make its way -to the Smithsonian?

-What's the story there?

-The Smithsonian has the -a portrait competition.

-The Outwin portrait -competition.

-There's very, competitive, -very prestigious, -whoever wins, -it gets $25,000.

-I found out about it on -online, a call for for art.

-And I, I have participated -and been a finalist twice, -the previous time -that I, that I participated, -it was also -with a group of immigrants.

Crossing between El Paso and Ciudad Juarez in Mexico.

-I did get a few, you know, -a couple of commissions -from the first time -I participated.

-Being a finalist, it's a -it's a great honor to be a -finalist, because you have -hundreds of submissions.

-It's peer reviewed.

You -know, they have a select -group of jurors from across -the country.

It was selected -through that process, and it -became a finalist.

Was it -the Smithsonian for maybe -six months, and it traveled -the country to other venues.

-The Smithsonian had a -choreographer, choreographer -in residence that saw the -painting, and he -choreographed a dance and a -performance based on the -painting.

So I think the -painting has always really -spoken to people.

It's -interesting how much -symbolism is in that -painting that still holds -true today, right?

That's -still relevant.

I mean, you -live in Texas, correct?

Yes, -yeah, yes.

How far are you -from the border itself?

-Right now, I live, I'm in -Edinburgh, Texas, I would -say I'm about 10 miles from -the border.

-Wow, very close, yeah.

So I -think, I think I'm -wondering, like, how much, -how much of you is in this -inspiration?

I think to make -this painting like, either -where you live or your -family or your upbringing or -the people in your lives, -like, how is immigration -touching you, I don't know -daily or personally?

-Well, it's been a constant -theme in my work, and also -been the immigration is, -it's a it's a concern and -something that is a reality -here where I live, for -example, just in myself, I -was born in Mexico.

My -grandfather, he came to the -US after the Mexican -Revolution, fleeing Mexico, -looking for some for a -better situation, came to -the US.

I mean, this is back -in the 1929 that he was -born.

So you have the Great -Depression.

And then he what -the family moved back to -Mexico.

And my father grew -up, you know, traveling back -and forth, working in the -US, going back to Mexico.

-But he started his family in -Mexico, and that's where I -was born.

There was a lot of -economic uncertainty in -Mexico at the time, you -know, the mid 80s, and we -came to the US.

So I came -here legally.

My father was -always concerned for the -safety of the family, and -he, he raised the money, -talked to a lawyer, like got -all the documentation ready.

-Where I grew up, it was in -Mexico.

Was a farming, -little farming community, -very close to the river, you -know, very close to the -river on the Mexican side.

-And so I understand the -whole, you know, concerns -with the criminality that is -associated with immigration.

-There was a lot of smuggling -to the United States and -also into Mexico.

So that -was a reality for me from a -very young age.

And also when we came, some of the first things that we did -is we were farm workers.

We -did farm work in Michigan -and Ohio, and we were -surrounded by other -immigrants, I'm here, that -were here illegally, a lot -of so I would spend a lot of -time with, you know what -he's referring to now, as -military age males that were -working, and they had all -Types of different stories -of their journeys, their -travels to the US, stories -of survivals, being stranded -in the desert, having -friends perish in the desert -or drowned in the river.

So -all those stories really -ingrained themselves in me -and shaped my my interest as -an artist is a sincere and -genuine experience that I'm -depicting, and also sincere -concern for the immigrant, -because it's something that -I've always been very close -to you.

A lot of this, like kind of Baroque era style of -painting was reserved for, -like Dukes and like lavish -couches and Women and pearls -and dresses and the details -on every little thing that -is not what is being -depicted here.

Was there -some sort of, was there some -reason why you chose this -particular style that was -reserved for this sort of -elitism, -the style, of course, the -VOREC period is something that I've always been interested in as an artist.

-You know, from a very young -age.

Of course, painting is -is always associated with -the with the wealthy, with -the with royalty.

That's -especially that scale.

My -interest in borrowing that -scale is to make the journey -and the, I guess, the the -plight of the immigrants, -more monumental.

Also, one -thing that I do with my with -my paintings, is that I try -and put the horizon line at -the knee, so it's a very low -horizon line, so it's almost -like we're looking at the at -the people.

My paintings -either like they're on a -stage, or we are on the -ground, or we're very small.

-And often artists use that -in the past, you know, 1600s -they would use that to -accentuate the power and the -grandiosity of the king or -the queen.

But so I try and -borrow that to give the -importance of the suffering -of immigrants, you know, to -call attention to it by -increasing their scale and -their size within within the -painting, having said that, -it was also artists like -Caravaggio Jose de Rivera -that started to depict the -common people as saints.

You -know, they would take -beggars off the street, you -know, maybe shady characters -from bars or pubs and, you -know, dress them up as -saints.

I try.

I always -mentioned that there's -nothing original in what I -do other than the story.

I -try and depict contemporary -stories with these old, you -know, time tested, visual, -you know, devices, in a way, -very cool.

Yeah, art is -always borrowing from other -art.

I think about where you -live, and listening to how -your family came to America -is, is something I'm sure a lot of people are curious about right when they see -your work, but I also think -about Texas, and the -assumptions about Texas is -that some a painting like -this would really stand out -there, right?

Like it's a -red state, it's a place -where there are these border -issues.

But I'm curious, are -you a little bit of a rebel -where you live, or in your -art world or among your -peers, -I would say that in Texas, -yes, my perception and my -experience will be -considered outside of the -outside of the political -norm.

But I think because of -the rise in depending on -jobs in the oil field and -oil industry that has made -even this part of Texas, -very deep south Texas, which -was traditionally -Democratic, take on a very -conservative outlook.

People bought their jobs.

These are very high paying jobs for -people that a lot of oil -field workers have, you -know, minimal education, and -so it's very attractive to -them, these very high paying -jobs, of course, very -physically demanding.

People -speak about the high wages -that they paid, but of -course, it's very abusive.

-They're physically -demanding, a lot of -injuries.

There's no -guarantees that the job will -be there the next the next -year, and I think it's -tragic what has happened to -the state.

We had a little -talk yesterday at the -university.

We were talking -about bilingual education -and the benefits of -bilingual education, and I -spoke about my work.

One of -the other professors said, -your work, just because of -its depiction of immigrants, -is already being subversive.

-It is something that is not -welcome, but welcomed by the -new administration.

The -depiction, I think it, is, -in a way, heroic, the way, -like what we talked about, -the scale in the way that I -that I made the immigrants -i. Makes the monumental, -brings on some heroic -elements into their into -their depiction.

-It's almost too real.

Yeah, -you're not just a rebel in -Texas, right?

Because back -in August, the White House -sent a letter to the -Smithsonian requesting a -comprehensive internal -review of, I think it was, -eight Smithsonian museums -and their exhibitions, and -released a list of artists -who had hung their work in -the Smithsonian and work he -deemed a distorted history, -a distorted version of -history, and you were on -this list.

Your work was on -this list.

Why do you think -you were on that list, and -why do you think you were -targeted -from his first run at the at -the presidency, Trump -mentioned that Mexico was -not sending its best people, -that some were murderers or -rapists.

You know, we all -remember those words.

So -from the beginning, his rise -to power has been through -targeting immigrants, -targeting Mexicans.

So I was -not surprised at all when my -painting was almost like -front cover of the press -release, because it spoke a -truth, a truth about -immigration.

It spoke a -truth about the anti -immigrant sentiment.

It I -think it's quite interesting -that they chose to display -so prominently, and I think -they did that to speak -directly to their base.

I -mean, you, you spoke about -how the painting is very -literal, so when they looked -at when they reviewed the exhibitions at the Smithsonian, mine stood out clearly.

-How did it make you feel, -though, to be on that list?

-Were you sad or, I don't -know, amused.

What was the -feeling?

That's quite a -that's quite a list to be on -from the White House.

-I was happily surprised.

She -was a little scary, but I -was happy.

I was I was happy -that the painting had made a -statement and it had -disturbed and created -discomfort on the -administration that probably -feel very powerful by -intimidating people.

And so -I was very happy, and I wear -their disapproval as a badge -of honor, because everything -they stand for and they -speak about, I'm totally -against it.

-I knew that, having been at -the Smithsonian and speaking -to the curators and speaking -about their future plans, -this is back in 2016 I knew -that if Trump came to power, -there will be, there will be -problems, there will be some -issues.

And my, I think my -painting is mentioned on the -on the press release, that -it is part of the -collection.

It's not part of -the collection.

It was -displayed there, but it's -now it hang.

It hangs in the -home of a private collector.

-So I think in that regard, -they got the story wrong.

-And I think they just wanted -to showcase, you know, an -image that will speak -directly of what they don't -approve of, you know, right?

It wasn't even, wasn't even hanging there anymore.

I -find that really interesting -to still be targeted and not even hanging there.

You can't take any -action.

It was purchased to -live in somebody's home.

And -so -you travel across the -country as part of the Okay, -outwind Portrait -Competition, you know, -traveling exhibition, right?

-So it traveled the country -as part of a traveling -exhibition, but then it -ended up in somebody's home.

-And so it's just interesting -that you would be on this -list as an example when -nobody can really do -anything about it.

There's, -there's no way to take it -down.

It's not hanging So, -yeah, it's just it was -really about what your -painting was about, right?

-You were used as kind of a -model of what the White House did not want to see.

When I -saw the other works on there -is on my work, it reminded -me of the 1930s in Germany, -when they had degenerate art -exhibition where they they -gather, worked by artists at -the Nazis disapproved of -work that was outside of -their their stated goals, -that questioned the their -their supremacy.

And that's -what it brought to mind.

And -I think it's, it's been in, -in people's mind, because -they see that connection.

I -believe, I think they see -the troubling connection is -again, another sign that they're fascist, even though they say, like, we're not -fast, like, I mean, they do -this a. Food, they ban art.

-You know, right?

They're -butchering the Constitution.

-Just when was it?

Yesterday -they had Supreme Court had -this ruling where ice can -stop somebody just because -they look Hispanic or -they're working -a type of job that's -associated with immigrants.

-It's like, Why else do you -need?

Do you need -the arm bands with the -swastika?

Like, it's like, -it's, it's so ridiculous, so -ridiculous.

Like, what?

What -other proof do we need -you got the president -pissed, right?

So did you -immediately feel like it was -a badge of honor?

-There is a part of me -worried, because I teach at -one of the big universities -in Texas, you know, and -again, it's a very -conservative state.

I've got -a lot of publicity, CNN, The -Washington Post twice, and -so I am a little worried, -yeah, like, are they gonna -some friends are like, -you're already blacklisted.

-You know, there's probably -some kind of logarithm or -something cracking all your -conversation.

But I think we -need to stand up.

We need to -do the right thing.

We can -backtrack.

-Rigoberto, are you -optimistic about anything -right now?

-Am I an optimist?

No, but if -you're, if you're, if you're -a realist and a pessimist, -you're realizing you have to -do something to make the -world better.

You just can't.

Well, things are going to be ok.

That's not -going to work.

We have to do -our job.

I've been, I've -been blessed, in a way, with -the with all the coverage.

-The painting made a -newspaper in France, and it -talks about what we're -talking about.

So I've got a -lot of attention.

People -have looked at the word my -students and other other -people.

They have come up to -me like we've seen your -video.

And I just want to -thank you for standing up -for the community, and you -know, speaking your mind -about the career political -situation.

So we have to -become more active.

We have -to get out on the streets.

-We have to -take part in some type of -activity that will that will -bring on some change, if -the world does kind of -devolve, or continue to -devolve, as you say, it, it -possibly could what?

Where -will your art go from?

From -here, I -will continue to seek -inspiration from the world -around me.

I am sketching -out ideas.

I want to do a -painting of ice kidnapping, -because that's what they do.

-They kidnap people and the -struggle of that fight.

And -I will just continue to -bring awareness to the -suffering and the the, you -know, the there's the -stories of the of the of the -immigrants, of the refugees.

-Thanks so much -for joining us.

If you want to continue to be a part -of the Homegoings family, -!stay in touch at homegoings.co -and subscribe -to the Homegoings podcast -wherever you listen.

-Take good care.