>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

>> Gene: THIS WEEK ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS, THE RIO GRANDE DRYING UP.

RECORD SETTING TOTALS OF DRY RIVERBED RIGHT NOW AND WHY THIS IS DIFFERENT THAN YEARS PAST.

>> Dahm: RIGHT NOW IT IS PRETTY NERVE RACKING TO WATCH A RIVER THAT FOR 40 YEARS HAS FLOWED THROUGH THE ALBUQUERQUE REACH NOW GO DRY.

>> Gene: PLUS A STATE REPRESENTATIVE EXPRESSES HER CONCERNS OVER A PROPOSAL TO STORE NUCLEAR WASTE FROM AROUND THE U.S.

RIGHT HERE IN OUR STATE.

THANKS FOR JOINING US THIS WEEK.

I AM YOUR HOST, GENE GRANT.

NEW MEXICO'S CHILDREN, YOUTH AND FAMILIES DEPARTMENT IS ANNOUNCING A SERIES OF POLICY CHANGES FOLLOWING OUR INTERVIEW WITH THE SECRETARY OF THE DEPARTMENT LAST WEEK.

THE AGENCY IS ALSO RELEASING THE 27-PAGE REVIEW FROM AN OUTSIDE GROUP THAT LOOKED INTO HOW IT HANDLED CRITICAL INCIDENTS LIKE CHILD DEATHS.

IN ABOUT 25 MINUTES WE'LL DIG THROUGH THAT REPORT AND LOOK AHEAD TO THE CHANGES THE DEPARTMENT NEEDS TO MAKE.

WE ARE ALSO SHIFTING OUR GAZE ACROSS THE NORTHERN BORDER INTO CANADA WHERE THE POPE VISITED THIS WEEK TO FORMALLY APOLOGIZE FOR THE ROLE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH PLAYED IN THE COUNTRY'S INDIGENOUS BOARDING SCHOOL PROGRAM.

IN ABOUT 20 MINUTES CORRESPONDENT ANTONIO GONZALES ASKS MEMBERS OF A NATIONAL HEALING COALITION WHAT THAT MEANS FOR NATIVE PEOPLE HERE IN NEW MEXICO.

WE START THE SHOW AS LARGE AREAS OF THE RIO GRANDE ARE BEING THREATENED BY HEAT AND AN INCREASINGLY SPORADIC MONSOON SEASON.

IT IS THE CULMINATION OF YEARS OF SEVERE DROUGHT.

HERE IS OUR LAND EXECUTIVE PRODUCER LAURA PASKUS.

>> Laura: LAST WEEK, THE RIO GRANDE WITHIN THE ALBUQUERQUE REACH STARTED TO DRY.

ON MONDAY, THERE WERE FIVE MILES DRY IN THE CITY, 12 MILES DRY NEAR LOS LUNAS AND 32 IN THE SOCORRO AREA.

UPSTREAM, RAINS, STILL REWET THE RIVER HERE AND THERE BUT THIS DRYING WILL KEEP HAPPENING THROUGHOUT THE SUMMER AND THE FALL.

THE STATE OF THE RIO GRANDE IS SOMETHING WE HAVE LONG COVERED.

THE RIVER IN SOUTHERN NEW MEXICO IS DRY MUCH OF THE YEAR.

AND MORE SUMMERS THAN NOT IN THE PAST 20, THE MIDDLE RIO GRANDE HAS DRIED DOWNSTREAM OF ALBUQUERQUE.

BUT THIS YEAR, THIS IS THE FIRST TIME IN DECADES THAT THE ALBUQUERQUE STRETCH HAS TURNED TO SAND.

IT IS BY NO MEANS UNEXPECTED.

THOUGH THE SIGHT OF THAT EMPTY CHANNEL IS SHOCKING TO ALL OF US.

IN THE PAST, WHEN THE RIVER DRIED IN ALBUQUERQUE, THAT IS BECAUSE ALL THE WATER COULD BE DIVERTED FOR IRRIGATION, FOR EXAMPLE.

BUT THERE WAS STILL WATER UPSTREAM STORED IN RESERVOIRS ON THE CHAMA RIVER, A TRIBUTARY OF THE RIO GRANDE.

TODAY, THOSE SAME RESERVOIRS, HERON LAKE IS STANDING AT ONLY 17% FULL.

EL VADO, WHICH IS UNDER CONSTRUCTION, IS AT 2% FULL.

ABIQUIU, 51%.

I LOOKED BACK AT THE DATA AND THOSE THREE RESERVOIRS ARE CURRENTLY HOLDING A QUARTER OF WHAT THEY DID IN 1983, THE LAST TIME THE RIVER IS SAID TO HAVE DRIED IN THE ALBUQUERQUE STRETCH.

MEANWHILE, DOWNSTREAM, ELEPHANT BUTTE RESERVOIR, THE LARGEST IN OUR STATE, IS AT 4% CAPACITY.

CABALLO RESERVOIR 9%.

THERE ARE MANY REASONS FOR THE DRYING.

AND MUCH OF THE RIVER IS STILL DIVERTED FOR IRRIGATION, FOR EXAMPLE.

BUT THE SIMPLEST WAY TO EXPLAIN THE DRYING IS THE RIO GRANDE HAS TOO MANY DEMANDS PLACED UPON IT ESPECIALLY NOW IN OUR WARMER CLIMATE.

WE'LL KEEP COVERING NEW MEXICO'S RIVERS.

THIS WEEK, I TALK WITH UNIVERSITY OF NEW MEXICO PROFESSOR EMERITUS CLIFF DAHM.

HE HAS BEEN STUDYING DESERT RIVERS FOR DECADES AND HE EXPLAINS WHAT RIVER DRYING MEANS FOR DIFFERENT SPECIES THAT CALL THE RIVER AND ITS ECOSYSTEM HOME.

WELCOME BACK TO THE SHOW PROFESSOR DAHM.

>> Dahm: THANK YOU.

>> Laura: A FEW YEARS AGO WE WERE OUT IN THE SANDIAS WITH YOU TALKING ABOUT INTERMITTENT AND EPHEMERAL WATERWAYS.

TODAY WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A PERENNIAL RIVER, THE RIO GRANDE, THAT HAS DRIED.

AS WE ARE TALKING RIGHT NOW, THE RIO GRANDE HAS DRIED FOR SOME SIGNIFICANT STRETCHES IN THE ALBUQUERQUE REACH, NEAR SOCORRO AND ALSO NEAR LOS LUNAS.

I WANTED TO TALK TO YOU.

YOU ARE AN EXPERT IN THIS FIELD, YOU KNOW, ANYONE CAN SEE THE OBVIOUS FACTS AS THE RIVER DRIES, IMPACTS THE FISH, FOR EXAMPLE.

FISH NEED WATER TO SURVIVE.

WHAT ARE SOME OF THE OTHER WAYS IN WHICH A DRYING RIVER AFFECTS DIFFERENT SPECIES OR THE ECOSYSTEM AS A WHOLE?

>> Dahm: LET ME START BY MAKING ONE POINT THAT I THINK IS IMPORTANT AS BACKGROUND AND THAT IS INTERMITTENT RIVERS THAT ONLY FLOW PART OF THE TIME ARE PREVALENT WORLDWIDE.

THERE ARE MORE RIVERS MILES WORLDWIDE THAT ARE INTERMITTENT THAN ARE PERENNIAL.

WE HAPPEN TO LIVE IN NEW MEXICO AND THE ONE RIVER THAT IS SO DEAR AND NEAR TO SO MANY HEARTS IS THE RIO GRANDE AND WE THINK OF THE RIO GRANDE FLOW BEING THROUGH ALBUQUERQUE AS BEING A PERENNIAL REACH.

IT HAS DIED BEFORE SO IT DOES ON OCCASION HAVE INTERMITTENCE.

THAT INTERMITTENCE IS GOING TO HAVE EFFECTS ON BIOTIC COMMUNITIES THAT ARE THERE.

YOU MENTIONED THE FISH, BUT IN ADDITION, THE RIPARIAN FOREST THAT IS THERE IS DEPENDENT ON HAVING A WATER TABLE THAT IS USUALLY WITHIN 10 FEET OF THE SURFACE.

IF THE WATER TABLE STARTS TO DROP FROM THIS DRYING WE MIGHT SEE SOME DEGRADATION PARTICULARLY OF WILLOWS AND COTTONWOODS.

THAT IS ANOTHER GROUP VULNERABLE TO THE DRYING.

YOU ALSO HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT THE DRYING IS IN THE RIVERBED AND THERE IS WATER IN THE DITCHES, THERE IS WATER IN THE CONVEYANCE CHANNELS, THERE IS WATER IN RETURN FLOWS.

SO THERE IS WATER IN THE SYSTEM SO THAT MAY KEEP THE WATER TABLE HIGH ENOUGH THAT WE WILL NOT HAVE PROBLEMS WITH THE RIPARIAN FOREST BUT WE SHOULD KEEP AN EYE ON THEM FOR SURE.

MANY OF THE MORE MOBILE SPECIES ON A REACH LIKE THIS DRY WILL PROBABLY MOVE TO NEW TERRITORY.

OTHERS MIGHT HAVE ADAPTATIONS TO IT.

FOR EXAMPLE, LAYING EGGS THAT WILL BE RESISTANT TO THE DRY PHASE AND WILL THEN HATCH AGAIN WHEN THE WET PHASE COMES.

SO, I THINK THE ONE THING WE SHOULD BE VERY COGNIZANT OF IS THAT THERE ARE SMALL HABITATS THAT ARE RESIDUAL DURING THE DRYING EVENTS.

THE DRYING EVENTS ARE USUALLY FAIRLY PREDICTABLE.

THEY GO FROM VERY LOW FLOW TO LOTS OF PUDDLES AND POOLS TO ACTUAL TOTAL DRYNESS AND IN THAT TRANSITION IT GIVES SOME OF THE ORGANISMS TIME TO COME UP WITH A STRATEGY TO GET READY TO BASICALLY BE SUCCESSFUL OVER THESE DRY STRETCHES.

ONE THING THAT I WILL ALWAYS TELL PEOPLE IS THAT RIVERS ARE RESILIENT.

THEY ARE SOME OF THE MOST RESILIENT ECOSYSTEMS IN THE WORLD.

I EXPERIENCED THAT WHEN MT.

ST. HELENS ERUPTED AND THAT CAME BACK MUCH FASTER.

SO IF WE GET WATER BACK IN THE SYSTEM, YOU'LL SEE RAPID RECOVERY, BUT RIGHT NOW IT IS PRETTY NERVE RACKING TO WATCH A RIVER THAT FOR 40 YEARS HAS FLOWED THROUGH THE ALBUQUERQUE REACH NOW GO DRY.

>> Laura: WHAT ABOUT SOME OF THE SMALLER ANIMALS, YOU KNOW, WHETHER THAT IS INSECTS OR AMPHIBIANS AND HOW THEY KIND OF ALL RELATE TO ONE ANOTHER AND DO WE SEE CHANGES IN WATER QUALITY, THINGS LIKE THAT?

>> Dahm: A LOT OF THESE ORGANISMS THAT ARE MAYBE LESS MOBILE OFTEN WILL LOOK FOR REFUGIA AND THAT IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I THINK IS IMPORTANT THAT WE DURING THE DRYING PHASE IS THAT WE SHOULD MAP POTENTIAL REFUGIA WITHIN THE REACHES.

ARE THERE OXBOW LAKES?

ARE THERE WETLANDS?

ARE THERE AREAS WHERE GROUNDWATER STILL IS PERCOLATING THROUGH AND PRODUCING SMALL RIVERS IN THE ACTIVE STREAM.

THOSE ARE THE PLACES WHERE THESE ORGANISMS WILL GO.

SOME OF THE SMALLER ORGANISMS, CERTAINLY SOME OF THE AQUATIC INSECTS AND PLANKTON, THEY LAY EGGS THAT ARE PRETTY RESISTANT TO DRYING AND THEY WILL HATCH BACK UP WHEN THEY ARE REWET.

THERE ARE STRATEGIES THAT MANY ORGANISMS HAVE.

BIRDS PROBABLY MOVED ON TO PLACES WHERE THEY HAVE BETTER HABITAT.

CERTAINLY THE FISH, THOSE THAT ARE BEING STRANDED THAT ARE A CONCERN ARE ACTUALLY BEING CAPTURED AND MOVED.

>> Laura: WHAT HAPPENS WHEN A RIVER SYSTEM DRIES AND REWETS, DRIES AND REWETS?

IS THAT A DIFFERENT KIND OF IMPACT THAN WHEN IT JUST STAYS DRY FOR A LONG PERIOD OF TIME?

>> Dahm: DEFINITELY.

INTERMITTENT RIVERS WORLDWIDE ARE QUITE NUMEROUS AND IN TERMS OF RIVER MILES THERE HAS BEEN A COUPLE PAPERS OF LATE THAT BASICALLY POINTS OUT THERE ARE MORE MILES OF INTERMITTENT RIVERS WORLDWIDE THAN THERE IS IN PERENNIAL RIVERS WORLDWIDE.

SO, THIS IS NOT AN UNCOMMON OCCURRENCE.

I WAS LUCKY ENOUGH TO BE PART OF A GROUP THAT BASICALLY HAD SCIENTISTS FROM AUSTRALIA AND FROM EUROPE AND FROM SOUTH AMERICA AND THESE KIND OF SYSTEMS OCCUR WORLDWIDE.

AND IN NEW MEXICO ABOUT 95% OF OUR RIVERS ARE INTERMITTENT.

AND, SO, IT IS THE 5% THAT ARE PERENNIAL THAT WE OFTEN FOCUS UPON, BUT THE FACT THAT THEY GO DRY AND THEY WET UP AND GO DRY AND WET UP IS SOMETHING THAT BIOLOGIC COMMUNITIES CAN ADAPT TO.

THE QUESTION IS, HOW OFTEN IS THIS GOING TO HAPPEN?

IF THIS IS JUST SOMETHING THAT HAPPENS EPISODICALLY, PROBABLY THEY ADAPT WELL.

IF THIS IS GOING TO BE A LONG-TERM NEW NORMAL THEN LIKELY MORE CHANGES WILL BE NOTICED.

>> Laura: AS YOU'RE LOOKING WORLDWIDE AT SYSTEMS THAT ARE EITHER INTERMITTENT, THAT IS JUST HOW THEY WERE NATURALLY, OR A SYSTEM LIKE THE RIO GRANDE THAT MAYBE IS BECOMING MORE INTERMITTENT, WHAT ARE SOME OF THE IMPACTS THAT WE REALLY NEED TO ANTICIPATE AND BE THINKING ABOUT?

I MEAN, WATER RESOURCES ARE SUCH A KEY CONCERN RIGHT NOW.

>> Dahm: AND SO LIMITED ALSO.

THERE ARE A LOT OF PLACES WHERE THIS KIND OF INTERMITTENCY HAS BEEN STUDIED AND THE AUSTRALIANS PROBABLY LEAD THE WAY BECAUSE THEY HAVE A CONTINENT THAT IS OVERWHELMINGLY SERIOUSLY DRY.

THESE WETTING AND DRYING EVENTS HELP THE ORGANISMS THAT HAVE LEARNED HOW TO ADAPT AND IT IS ACTUALLY SOMETHING THAT BECOMES PREDICTABLE IN THEIR LIFE.

HAVING 40 YEARS WITHOUT FLOW IN THE ALBUQUERQUE REACH, IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE WHICH ORGANISMS CAN FEND OFF THE DRY SPELL VERSUS THOSE THAT HAVE A SUBSTANTIAL REDUCTION IN THEIR POPULATIONS.

LIKE I SAY, SOME OF THE SENTINELS THAT I WOULD LOOK AT ARE THE RIPARIAN TREE SPECIES.

ARE WE GOING TO SEE WILLOW AND COTTONWOOD DIE BACK AND SEE REPLACEMENT BY THINGS LIKE INVASIVE SPECIES LIKE SIBERIAN ELM AND SALT CEDAR.

THAT WOULD BE ONE THING CERTAINLY TO LOOK AT AND THEN OTHER AQUATIC INSECTS AND FISH SPECIES WILL BE VERY IMPORTANT AS PART OF THE ANALYSIS.

>> Laura: WE TALK ABOUT NONHUMAN SPECIES ADAPT.

I AM CURIOUS WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT HOW HUMAN SPECIES MIGHT NEED TO ADAPT TO TO THIS SORT OF WARMER/DRYER CLIMATE IN NEW MEXICO?

>> Dahm: ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE SHOULD START OUT POINTING OUT IS THAT THIS DRYING THAT IS OCCURRING IN THE RIO GRANDE, IT IS HAPPENING ALL OVER THE WORLD.

THIS IS A BYPRODUCT OF A WARMER EARTH AND THIS IS A BYPRODUCT OF HEATWAVES AND THIS IS A BYPRODUCT OF HUMAN NEEDS FOR WATER COMPETING WITH ECOSYSTEMS NEED FOR WATER.

SO, THIS IS HAPPENING ALL OVER THE WORLD AND THE FACT THAT IT HAS HAPPENED HERE IN OUR HOMETOWN IS SOMETHING THAT GALVANIZES PEOPLES' INTEREST AND HOPEFULLY WILL ALSO ALLOW US TO BEGIN THE DIALOGUE.

IT IS A DIFFICULT DIALOGUE OF HOW DO WE UTILIZE OUR PRECIOUS WATER RESOURCES.

>> Laura: THANK YOU, PROFESSOR DAHM, FOR JOINING ME.

I APPRECIATE IT.

>> Dahm: YOU ARE VERY WELCOME.

>> Gene: THANKS LAURA FOR THAT CONTEXT ON THIS TROUBLING AND STILL DEVELOPING STORY.

IT IS WHERE WE WANT TO START WITH THE LINE OPINION PANEL TOO.

WELCOME TO OUR THREE PANELISTS THIS WEEK.

TOM GARRITY FROM THE GARRITY GROUP PUBLIC RELATIONS.

DAVE MULRYAN FROM MULRYAN NASH ADVERTISING AND JULIA GOLDBERG, A VETERAN OF NEW MEXICO JOURNALISM, OF COURSE, AND NOW SHE IS A CORRESPONDENT AT THE SANTA FE REPORTER.

THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE.

LAURA MENTIONED THOSE STARTLING NUMBERS.

COMBINED, NEARLY 50 MILES OF THE RIO GRANDE IN NEW MEXICO IS NOW NOTHING BUT SAND AND GRAVEL.

LET'S START WITH YOUR INITIAL REACTIONS WHEN YOU SAW THOSE IMAGES.

TOM, DO YOU THINK THE REST OF THE PUBLIC HERE WAS AS SHOCKED AS MANY OF US?

>> Tom: ABSOLUTELY.

WE ALL GET VERY ACCUSTOMED TO WATCHING -- SEEING THE RIO GRANDE WITH WATER IN IT.

AND TO NOT HAVE ANY WATER IN IT IN DIFFERENT PARTS IS, YOU KNOW, IS QUITE JARRING AND AWAKENING FOR EVERYONE.

I THINK IT IS A LITTLE CONFUSING TOO BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WE WILL SEE THE RIO GRANDE DRY IN PARTS AND THEN WE'LL SEE THE ACEQUIAS FILLED WITH WATER FOR DIFFERENT FARMS AND STUFF.

SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK SOMETIMES THAT CREATES CONFUSION BECAUSE I AM GLAD THAT LAURA AND OTHERS ARE PROVIDING SOME EDUCATION ON THE TOPIC OF WHY WE SEE ACEQUIAS AND CANALS HAVE WATER IN SOME AREAS BUT NOT NECESSARILY IN THE RIVER.

>> Gene: GOOD POINT THERE.

JULIA, AS TOM MENTIONED, THE RIVER HAS HAD DRY STRETCHES BEFORE BUT IT IS IMPORTANT TO SAY IT IS A VERY DIFFERENT SITUATION THAN IN THE PAST.

THERE HAD BEEN PLENTY OF WATER STORED UPSTREAM IN THE RESERVOIRS.

THAT IS NOT THE CASE IN 2022, SO, THIS ISN'T A MANAGEMENT DECISION, PER SE.

THIS IS AN ENVIRONMENTAL REALITY.

HOW DO WE IMPRESS UPON OUR LEADERS THAT REALITY?

>> Julia: THANKS GENE.

I THINK THE ENGINEERS MIKE HAMMOND AND OTHERS MADE A GOOD STAB AT IMPRESSING LEGISLATORS EARLIER THIS WEEK.

THEY, OF COURSE, PRESENTED TO THE WATER AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMITTEE AND THEY SHOWED THE NUMBERS AND SHOWED THAT AS SHOCKING AS THESE IMAGES ARE AND THE SITUATION IS, NOT UNLIKE SO MANY ASPECTS OF CLIMATE CHANGE, THEY ARE SHOCKING AND YET NOT SURPRISING.

IT IS 20 YEARS IN THE MAKING.

THIS DIDN'T HAPPEN OVERNIGHT.

TEXAS IS SEEING COMPARABLE PROBLEMS WITH THE RIO GRANDE IN MAY.

WE ARE SEEING SIMILAR THINGS WITH THE GILA, WITH THE COLORADO RIVER.

THIS IS WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THE SOUTHWESTERN U.S.

SO, THE STATE IS GEARING UP TO PRESENT A 50-YEAR WATER PLAN TO THE PUBLIC STARTING AT THE BEGINNING OF AUGUST AND THE GUYS ARE READY -- I THINK DISTRICT AND POLLING DID A SURVEY LAST YEAR THAT SHOWED THE PUBLIC VERY MUCH UNDERSTANDS WHAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN IN TERMS OF ALLOCATION OF RESOURCES, IN TERMS OF PLANNING FOR THE FUTURE AND NOW IT IS SORT OF UP TO LAWMAKERS AND OFFICIALS TO MAKE SURE THAT SOME OF THOSE IDEAS ARE IMPLEMENTED QUICKLY.

>> Gene: GOOD POINT THERE.

DAVE, MIDDLE RIO GRANDE CONSERVANCY DISTRICT, STATE OFFICIALS, OTHERS, HAVE BEEN PUSHING FARMERS TO PARTICIPATE IN A VOLUNTARY FALLOWING PROGRAM.

WHICH FOR THOSE OF US WHO ARE NOT FARMERS, THAT WOULD LEAVE THEIR FIELDS UNPLANTED FOR A SEASON IN ORDER TO SAVE WATER, KIND OF SWITCH BACK AND FORTH AND INCREASE FLOWS.

DOES THAT SOUND LIKE A LONG-TERM SOLUTION TO YOU?

>> Dave: WELL, I MEAN, NO, THE PROBLEM IS, I THINK, WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND, YOU KNOW, 90% OF ALL WATER IN THIS COUNTRY IS USED FOR AGRICULTURE.

AND SO IT IS AN ECONOMIC ISSUE AS MUCH AS IT IS ANYTHING ELSE.

I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO LOOK AT, YOU KNOW -- IT IS SUCH A GORDIAN KNOT OF WHO REGULATES WATER.

FEDERAL, STATE, MUNICIPAL.

I MEAN IT IS JUST REALLY DIFFICULT TO PUSH THROUGH ANYTHING BUT I THINK THAT THE PROGRESS, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE 80'S, LIKE THE RIO GRANDE WAS DRY.

AND IT WOULD ALWAYS GO DRY BASICALLY IN THE 80'S AND THEN WE SORT OF CHANGED THINGS AROUND, BUT I THINK ULTIMATELY IF YOU LOOK AT PLACES LIKE LAS VEGAS, THEY HAVE DONE A GOOD JOB OF USING RECLAIMED WATER AND SO THE THING THAT I WOULD SAY IS MORE ALARMING THAN, YOU KNOW, THE DRIED-OUT RIO GRANDE IS THE DRIED OUT -- THE IDEA THERE ARE NO IDEAS.

LIKE WHAT IS THE SOLUTION?

WE KEEP DESCRIBING THE PROBLEM.

WE HAVE BEEN DESCRIBING THE PROBLEM.

WE NEED TO FIND THE SOLUTIONS.

WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO?

HOW ARE WE GOING TO FIX THIS AND WHO IS GOING TO DO IT?

IS IT GOING TO COST MONEY?

WHERE IS THE MONEY COMING FROM?

YOU KNOW, ALL THESE QUESTIONS THAT I THINK HAVE TO GET ANSWERED THAT NEVER GET ANSWERED.

>> Gene: BUT, TOM, WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT, FARMERS IT COULD BE ARGUED ARE TAKING THE BRUNT OF THIS.

MAYBE IT SHOULD BE US CITY FOLKS THAT LOOK HARDER AT WHAT WE ARE USING BEFORE THE WATER EVEN GETS DOWNSTREAM TO THEM.

ARE WE DOING ENOUGH HERE IN THE POPULATED AREAS?

>> Tom: WELL, THERE HAVE BEEN A LOT OF IMPROVEMENTS AND I GUESS IT DEPENDS WHERE YOU ARE.

HERE IN CENTRAL NEW MEXICO, THE ALBUQUERQUE BERNALILLO COUNTY WATER UTILITY AUTHORITY, EVEN THOUGH I DON'T LIKE THE LACK OF ACCOUNTABILITY THAT IT HAS, THEY HAVE BEEN DOING A LOT OF GOOD WORK IN WATER CONSERVATION.

YOU KNOW, DURING THIS COVID-19 TIME A LOT OF PEOPLE WERE SPENDING A LOT OF MONEY ON HOME IMPROVEMENTS, MAYBE SOME OF THOSE HAD TO DO WITH WATER FIXTURES.

YOU KNOW.

AS FAR AS OUTSIDE OF THE ALBUQUERQUE AREA, WITH, YOU KNOW, FARMERS, YOU KNOW, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE A LITTLE BIT MORE INFO AS FAR AS FROM WHAT ARE THE ECONOMIC IMPACTS FROM HAVING THE FIELDS FALLOWED, BECAUSE, WHAT IS THAT RIPPLE EFFECT, TO USE THAT PHRASE BUT, YOU KNOW, ON THE RURAL COMMUNITIES BECAUSE TYPICALLY YOU WOULD HAVE THOSE FIELDS THAT WOULD BE FILLED WITH CROPS THAT WOULD NEED TO BE HARVESTED AND PEOPLE TO DO THAT.

AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN IT IS LIKE THAT ECONOMIC IMPACT PIECE IS NOT THERE.

BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I AM NOT NECESSARILY AS FATALISTIC AS DAVE, ALTHOUGH I THINK DAVE BRINGS UP SOME GREAT POINTS, IS THAT WATER REALLY IS ALL ABOUT ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT IN LOOKING AT IT.

BECAUSE WITHOUT WATER WE ARE NOT GOING TO DO A WHOLE LOT OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT.

AND I THINK THERE HAVE BEEN SOME GOOD THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN TAKING PLACE AND THEY ARE JUST -- THE LACK OF SOLUTIONS, I THINK IS ACCENTUATED BECAUSE WE GET IN A TIME WE DON'T HAVE A WHOLE LOT OF WATER AND WE HAVE A WHOLE LOT OF HEAT AND THAT GETS PEOPLE HOT UNDER THE COLLAR TO SAY, OH MY GOSH, WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO?

I THINK THERE ARE SOME THINGS GOING ON THAT ARE HAPPENING.

THE FALLOWING THE FIELDS IS ONE THING BUT THERE COULD BE A LOT OF ADDITIONAL WORK THAT COULD BE DONE.

I THINK THE GOVERNMENT AND ALL THE DIFFERENT ENTITIES THAT ARE LINED UP TO KIND OF HAVE A SAY IN THIS PARTICULAR FIGHT, THEY NEED TO COMMUNICATE THEIR MESSAGE BETTER.

>> Gene: JULIA, TIED UP IN ALL OF THIS, OF COURSE, IS THE FACT THAT WE OWE, AS A STATE, WE OWE TEXAS WATER AS PART OF THE INTERSTATE COMPACT BUT WITH THE OUTSTANDING DEBT AND NO WATER IN THE BANK, SO TO SPEAK, WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING OTHER THAN THE HOPE OF RAIN TO BAIL US OUT ON THIS DEAL.

HOW CAN WE GIVE WATER TO ANOTHER STATE WHEN WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH OF OUR OWN?

IS THIS TIME TO SIT DOWN AND HAMMER OUT PERHAPS A NEW DEAL WITH THESE COMPACTS AT THIS POINT?

>> Julia: WELL, I THINK THAT THERE IS SOME SKEPTICISM ON THE PART OF TEXAS FOR THAT EXACT REASON THAT LAWMAKERS WILL AGREE TO A DEAL AND WHAT I AM HEARING AND UNDERSTANDING IS GET THOSE DEALS SIGNED, GET THAT DEALT WITH BECAUSE THERE ARE SO MANY OTHER PIECES TO THIS, YOU KNOW, THE FALLOWING IS ONE BUT, YOU KNOW, DOZENS OF PROPOSALS ON THE TABLE RELATING TO INFRASTRUCTURE, RELATING TO METERING, RELATING TO CLOSER MONITORING.

THERE IS SO MANY THINGS AT PLAY THAT THE COMPACT SITUATION KIND OF JUST NEEDS TO BE SETTLED AND DECIDED AND I THINK THE JUDGES ON THE CASE ARE OPEN AND WANTING THAT TO HAPPEN BECAUSE HAVING THAT THEN DRAIN MORE FINANCES AND DRAIN MORE MONEY THAT COULD BE GOING INTO THE INFRASTRUCTURE PROJECTS.

>> Gene: GOOD POINT.

WE ARE TALKING MANY MILLIONS.

WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT A FEW THOUSANDS TO SETTLE THIS ISSUE.

THAT COULD BE USED SOMEWHERE ELSE.

THAT IS A VERY GOOD POINT.

INTERESTING.

YOU KNOW, DAVID, INTERESTINGLY LAURA AND PROFESSOR DAHM TOUCHED ON THIS, THE SITUATION OF IMPACTING OUR ENTIRE ECOSYSTEM, NOT JUST HUMAN.

I AM TALKING ABOUT THE SILVERY MINNOW IS FACING EXTENSION WITH BASICALLY NO HABITAT TO LIVE IN.

DOES THIS SERVE AS A MARKER OR MOTIVATOR FOR CLIMATE ACTION?

WE REMEMBER THE BIG KERFUFFLE BACK WHEN THE SILVERY MINNOW WAS FIRST TO BE PROTECTED PEOPLE LOST THEIR MINDS, I AM SURE YOU RECALL.

>> Dave: AGAIN, IT JUST GOES BACK TO THE COMPLEXITY OF ALL OF THIS.

WE AS CITIZENS NEED TO ELECT OFFICIALS.

AND WATER IS AN INTERESTING THING BECAUSE YOU CAN ELECT THEM AT LOTS OF LEVELS.

YOU CAN ELECT THEM AT, YOU KNOW, THE MUNICIPAL LEVEL.

YOU CAN ELECT THEM TO THE WATER BOARD.

YOU KNOW, WE SORT OF NEED TO, BUT WE AS CITIZENS NEED TO BETTER UNDERSTAND WHAT ARE THE ISSUES.

QUITE HONESTLY, YES, THE RIO GRANDE BEING DRY IS VERY ALARMING AND IT IS A GOOD VISUAL BUT THE BULK OF OUR WATER IS DEPENDENT ON THE SNOW PACK IN COLORADO IN FEBRUARY, YOU KNOW, WHICH WE ARE NOT SEEING ANY PICTURES OF THAT WHICH IT WAS VERY LIGHT THIS YEAR, SO, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, YOU KNOW, IN A WAY PICTURES OF THE RIO GRANDE BEING DRY ARE ALARMING BUT THEY ARE ALSO PART OF THE PROBLEM BECAUSE THEY DON'T REALLY TELL US ANYTHING EXCEPT THE RIO GRANDE IS DRY.

BUT THAT IS NOT REALLY THE ISSUE.

THE ISSUE IS WE HAVE MISMANAGED.

WE HAVE TO MANAGE WATER BETTER.

WE HAVE TO HAVE BETTER IDEAS, CAN WE PULL WATER -- YOU KNOW, AT SOME POINT IN THE 80'S, I THINK, SAUDI ARABIA WAS TALKING ABOUT TOWING ICEBERGS TO SAUDI ARABIA, YOU KNOW.

IT SOUNDS CRAZY BUT IT IS AN IDEA, RIGHT?

>> Gene: THIS IS WHERE WE ARE.

EXACTLY RIGHT.

THANK YOU ALL FOR TRYING TO PARSE THROUGH THIS COMPLEX ISSUE.

IT IS NOT AN EASY ONE BUT SOMETHING WE'LL COVER CLOSELY THROUGHOUT THE REST OF THIS YEAR AND MOVING FORWARD.

>> WE DON'T HAVE IMAGINATION FOR SOMETHING ELSE OTHER THAN TO CREATE JOBS OR TO DEVELOP JOBS THAT ARE ESSENTIALLY POISONING OUR COMMUNITIES AND DESTROYING OUR PLANET, LIKE, THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT WE HAVE BASICALLY CENTERED OURSELVES IN AND SO I THINK FOR ME THIS IS JUST FRUSTRATION THAT I FEEL.

>> Gene: THIS WEEK POPE FRANCIS VISITED CANADA TO FORMALLY APOLOGIZE FOR THE CATHOLIC'S ROLE IN THE CANADIAN INDIGENOUS BOARDING SCHOOL PROGRAM.

HE TRAVELED TO THE LAND OF FOUR CREE NATIONS TO PRAY AT A CEMETERY AND THEN DELIVER AN APOLOGY AT A NEARBY CEREMONIAL GROUNDS.

WHILE THERE, THE POPE SAID THE FORCED ASSIMILATION OF NATIVE PEOPLE INTO CHRISTIAN SOCIETY DESTROYED THEIR CULTURES, SEVERED FAMILIES AND MARGINALIZED GENERATIONS.

SOMETHING NATIVE PEOPLE ACROSS NORTH AMERICA HAVE BEEN WAITING TO HEAR.

NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS CORRESPONDENT ANTONIO GONZALES SPOKE WITH TWO MEMBERS OF THE NATIONAL NATIVE AMERICAN BOARDING SCHOOL HEALING COALITION IN APRIL WHEN THE CHURCH FIRST ACKNOWLEDGED THESE ATROCITIES.

>> Antonia: SAMUEL AND JOANNIE, WELCOME TO NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS.

JOANNE, START US OF AND JUST TELL US WHAT WAS YOUR REACTION WHEN YOU HEARD THAT POPE FRANCIS HAD APOLOGIZED TO CANADA'S INDIGENOUS PEOPLE FOR THE CATHOLIC CHURCH'S ROLE IN THE INDIAN RESIDENTIAL SCHOOLS?

>> Romero: THANK YOU FOR YOUR QUESTION ANTONIO.

YOU KNOW, FOR ME PERSONALLY IT BROUGHT UP A LOT OF UNRESOLVED TRAUMA, THINKING ABOUT ALL OF THE RESEARCH THAT I HAVE CONDUCTED AS A STUDENT CURRENTLY AT THE UNIVERSITY OF WASHINGTON TACOMA PURSUING A DOCTORATE IN EDUCATIONAL LEADERSHIP.

AND ALSO MY WORK FOR THE NATIONAL NATIVE AMERICAN BOARDING SCHOOL HEALING COALITION BASED OUT OF MINNESOTA AND ALSO IN DEEP REFLECTION OF MY PUEBLO IRISH GROUPS HERE IN NEW MEXICO AND UNDERSTANDING THE DEEPLY ENTWINED AND VERY NUANCED WAYS IN WHICH CATHOLICISM HAS WOVEN ITSELF INTO OUR PUEBLO CULTURE.

I ALSO REFLECTED ON THE WAYS IN WHICH OUR SURVIVORS AND THEIR FAMILIES AS WELL AS THOSE WHO DID NOT RETURN HOME MAY HAVE HAD MIXED FEELINGS ON THE APOLOGY.

WHETHER IT WAS ACCEPTED WHOLEHEARTEDLY OR THAT IS A GOOD START, BUT, PERSONALLY, I FEEL THAT GOING BACK TO MY OWN PUEBLO AND CORE VALUES TO FORGIVENESS IS ONE OF THE IMPORTANT PIECES THAT WE PRACTICE ON A DAILY BASIS AND FOR ME, I FEEL LIKE IT IS A REALLY GOOD OPPORTUNITY TO BEGIN HAVING THESE CONVERSATIONS.

>> Antonia: SAMUEL, YOUR THOUGHTS.

WHAT DID YOU THINK WHEN YOU HEARD POPE FRANCIS' APOLOGIES TO CANADA'S INDIGENOUS PEOPLE?

>> Torres: FIRST OF ALL, I JUST WANT TO SAY THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME AND OUR VOICE ON THIS SEGMENT RIGHT NOW AND I APPRECIATE THE WORDS SHARED BY JOANNIE.

IT IS A COMPLICATED AND NUANCED SETTING, OF COURSE, AS JOANNIE MENTIONS.

I AM VERY MUCH LOOKING AT IT AS AN IMPORTANT DIALOGUE STARTER.

AND I THINK, NO.

1, MOST IMPORTANTLY, THE RECOGNITION OF THE HARM DONE, I THINK, IS ALWAYS A GOOD PLACE TO START BUT AS WE KNOW AND WHAT WE HAVE SEEN WITH APOLOGIES AND LAND ACKNOWLEDGMENTS MADE IN THE PAST, WE MUST KNOW THAT ACTIONS AND INTENTION TO ADDRESS THE SOCIAL CONDITIONS THAT COULD CREATE A SYSTEMIC ENVIRONMENT OF OPPRESSION SUCH AS THE FEDERAL INDIAN BOARDING SCHOOL POLICIES OF THE UNITED STATES, OF CANADA, AND ON BEHALF OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, ISSUING AN APOLOGY, OF COURSE, I THINK, IS IMPORTANT.

AND IT CAN'T BE UNDERSTATED THAT FOR MANY SURVIVORS, DESCENDANTS, FAMILIES, RELATIVES DEEPLY IMPACTED BY THIS, I KNOW THERE ARE A LOT OF FOLKS THAT HAVE BEEN WAITING A LONG TIME TO HEAR WORDS SUCH AS THESE.

AND, SO, THERE IS SOME HEALING POWER IN THAT.

IN THE ABILITY TO TRANSFORM THOSE DEEP WOUNDS INTO A PLACE OF HOPE, OF GROWTH, OF HEALING.

THAT SAID, WE KNOW THERE IS ALSO A LOT THAT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AND OTHER CHRISTIAN DENOMINATIONS AND SETTLERS, NATIONS, GOVERNMENTS CAN DO TO BE ABLE TO BACK UP THOSE WORDS OF APOLOGY.

>> Antonia: AND JOANNIE, THE APOLOGY FROM POPE FRANCIS WAS TO THE INDIGENOUS PEOPLE IN CANADA.

WHAT DO YOU THINK PEOPLE HERE IN THE UNITED STATES, WHEN IT COMES TO NATIVE AMERICANS, ALASKA NATIVES WHO WENT THROUGH BOARDING SCHOOL SYSTEMS HERE, WHICH A LOT OF OUR STORIES MIRROR WHAT WAS GOING ON IN CANADA, WHAT DO YOU THINK THAT NATIVE PEOPLE HERE WANT TO SEE FROM THE CATHOLIC CHURCH?

>> Romero: THANK YOU.

I CAN'T AGREE MORE WITH MY BROTHER SAM AND I DEFINITELY FEEL THAT THIS IS A GREAT STEP.

THERE IS SO MUCH MOMENTUM HAPPENING RIGHT NOW AND MUCH LIKE OUR METIS, OUR INUIT AND FIRST NATIONS RELATIVES IN CANADA, WE WANT AN ACKNOWLEDGEMENT AS WELL HERE IN THE UNITED STATES.

AND IT IS IMPORTANT TO ALSO UNDERSTAND THAT EACH COMMUNITY AND THEIR RESPECTIVE EXPERIENCES ARE GOING TO BE VERY DIFFERENT IN TERMS OF WHAT THEY DEFINE AS REPARATIONS, WHAT THAT COULD LOOK LIKE, BUT, IN TERMS OF A CALL TO ACTION FOR RIGHT NOW AND TAKING THOSE MEASURABLE STEPS, I THINK THAT THE NEXT OPPORTUNITY WOULD BE FOR THE POPE TO COME TO THE UNITED STATES AS WELL, TO SET FOOT ON OUR SOIL HERE ON TURTLE ISLAND, AND TO BEGIN HAVING THOSE CONVERSATIONS WITH OUR COMMUNITIES.

>> Gene: THANK YOU, ANTONIA.

YOU CAN WATCH THE ENTIRE INTERVIEW RIGHT NOW ON OUR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS YOUTUBE CHANNEL.

YOU WILL HEAR THE STEPS THE HEALING COALITION FEELS ARE NECESSARY BEYOND A FORMAL APOLOGY.

NOW TO THE NEW DEVELOPMENTS AT THE STATE'S CHILDREN, YOUTH AND FAMILIES DEPARTMENT.

FOLLOWING OUR INTERVIEW WITH THE SECRETARY OF CYFD ABOUT A COMMITTEE THAT HAD BEEN CLOSED TO THE PUBLIC, THE AGENCY IS ANNOUNCING A SERIES OF POLICY CHANGES.

LET'S BRING THE LINE OPINION PANELISTS BACK TO TALK THIS THROUGH.

SECRETARY BARBARA VIGIL SAYS THE DEPARTMENT WILL RETRAIN ITS FRONT LINE INVESTIGATORS AND CREATE NEW CRITICAL REVIEW TEAMS TO REPAIR SOME OF THE ISSUES IT HAS HAD WITH A SERIES OF INCIDENTS LIKE CHILD DEATHS.

DAVID, IS THIS WHAT PEOPLE HAVE BEEN WAITING TO HEAR FROM THE DEPARTMENT FOR YEARS?

IS IT ENOUGH?

ARE YOU SATISFIED WITH WHAT YOU'RE HEARING SO FAR?

>> Dave: WELL, I THINK IT IS A START.

LIKE EVERYTHING, IT ALL HAS TO START BUT I ALSO THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, NEW MEXICO AS A STATE, WE HAVE A HISTORY OF EXTREME POVERTY.

WE HAVE A HISTORY OF KNOWING THAT THERE IS A LOT OF KIDS WHO ARE AT RISK AND THIS IS ALL KNOWN STUFF TO US.

I THINK THAT WE NEED TO SIT BACK -- THIS IS A START BUT I THINK THE OVERSIGHT OF THIS DEPARTMENT NEEDS TO BE BEEFED UP BUT I ALSO THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, SO MANY MORE FRONT LINE WORKERS, TEACHERS, FOR EXAMPLE, ARE VERY GOOD AT PICKING OUT, LIKE WHEN KIDS ARE BEING -- HAVING TROUBLE AT HOME.

I MEAN, GOD KNOWS WE DON'T NEED TEACHERS TO DO MORE AND THEY DO THAT ALREADY.

THEY ARE REQUIRED TO WATCH OUT FOR THAT, BUT I THINK THAT WE ALSO NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT ARE THEY PROPERLY FUNDED?

DO THEY HAVE ENOUGH WORKERS?

DO THEY HAVE ENOUGH PEOPLE DOING THE RIGHT THINGS, YOU KNOW, ALL OF THE THINGS THAT -- ALL OF THESE STATE THINGS HAVE.

AND LET ME -- I ALWAYS SAY I ONLY SING A COUPLE SONGS, BUT LET ME SING MY OTHER ONE.

I AM NOT SURE THAT WITH A VOLUNTEER LEGISLATURE, THAT THESE DEPARTMENTS GET ENOUGH ATTENTION AND GET ENOUGH OVERSIGHT FROM COMMITTEES LIKE THEY SHOULD.

AND THAT WE SHOULD HAVE MORE -- IF WE HAD A PROFESSIONAL LEGISLATURE, THAT THEY WOULD GET MORE ATTENTION AND THAT COULD ONLY BE TO THE BENEFIT OF THE KIDS.

>> Gene: HERE, HERE, GOOD POINT.

PART OF THE CHANGES OUTLINED BY SECRETARY BARBARA VIGIL IS THE CREATION OF A CRITICAL INCIDENT TEAM.

THEY'LL BE CHARGED WITH INTERVIEWING FAMILIES, LAW ENFORCEMENT, DOCTORS, OTHERS, MAYBE TEACHERS AS DAVE MENTIONED, TO BETTER UNDERSTAND HOW THE SYSTEM WORKED OR DIDN'T AND HOW IT CAN BE IMPROVED TO PREVENT FUTURE INCIDENTS.

IS THIS A NECESSARY STEP?

>> Julia: SURE, GENE.

I MEAN, I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING THAT DAVE JUST SAID AND I KNOW THAT IN THE REPORT THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE IS A LINE THAT SAID SOMETHING LIKE IT IS UNDERSTOOD THERE ARE NO QUICK FIXES WITH A CHILD WELFARE SYSTEM.

WHILE THAT IS SOMETHING I DON'T THINK ANYBODY CAN ARGUE WITH, THESE ARE GIANT SYSTEMIC ISSUES, I WAS STRUCK BY THINKING THAT THE STATE KNOWS HOW TO CONVEY A SENSE OF URGENCY ABOUT ISSUES.

SO, WHEN THE STATE IS ON FIRE, FIREFIGHTERS MANAGE TO HAVE A DAILY UPDATE FOR THE PUBLIC THAT SAYS HERE IS WHAT IS HAPPENING.

AND I AM SURE THEY HAD OTHER THINGS TO DO DURING COVID-19.

WE HAD DAILY UPDATES BECAUSE IT WAS A CRISIS.

I THINK SECRETARY VIGIL, YOU KNOW, IN LOU'S INTERVIEW MADE THE CLEAR SHE WAS SURPRISED BY THE OUTCRY OVER THIS TRANSPARENCY ISSUE WITH THE COMMITTEE.

I THINK THE OUTCRY GOES TO THE FACTS THAT THE PUBLIC WANTS A GREATER SENSE OF ACCOUNTABILITY.

AND YOU COULD DELIVER THAT WITH, WHY NOT, A WEEKLY UPDATE THAT SAYS, HERE IS WHERE WE ARE WITH OUR TRAINING, HERE IS HOW MANY CASES WE ARE SEEING THIS WEEK, HERE ARE THE AGENCIES.

THAT NOT ONLY TELLS THE PUBLIC YOU'RE TAKING IT SERIOUSLY BUT IT BUILDS IN MORE ACCOUNTABILITY THAT MAYBE YOU'RE NOT GOING TO SEE FROM THE LEGISLATURE OR OTHER BODIES.

IT CREATES THAT ENVIRONMENT, I THINK, A LITTLE BIT MORE.

>> Gene: INTERESTING POINTS THERE AND SIMILAR TO WHAT I WANTED TO TURN TO TOM ABOUT AS WELL.

PUBLIC PERCEPTION.

DOES THAT MATTER IN THIS CASE WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT CYFD OR IS IT EVERYTHING?

WHERE DOES THAT FIT IN, HOW THESE FOLKS ARE SUPPOSED TO TAKE CARE OF THEIR BUSINESS HERE?

>> Tom: BEFORE I SHARE MY COMMENTS, YOU KNOW, MY FIRM HAS DONE WORK WITH CHILDREN YOUTH AND FAMILIES DEPARTMENT.

MY THOUGHTS ARE MY OWN AND JUST TO KIND OF ECHO EXACTLY WHAT JULIA WAS SAYING, I THINK WHAT SHE IS PROPOSING IS A FANTASTIC IDEA OF JUST HAVING A REGULAR REPORT CARD TO KIND OF REPORT OUT WHAT IS ACTUALLY HAPPENING BECAUSE QUITE FRANKLY A LOT OF US AREN'T REALLY ENGAGED IN WHAT HAPPENS AT CYFD UNTIL SOMETHING GOES WRONG.

UNTIL SOMETHING GOES TRAGICALLY WRONG.

WITH MORE THAN 20,000 FAMILIES THAT CYFD IS WORKING WITH AND 2,000 OF THOSE INCLUDE CHILDREN THEY ARE COORDINATING THROUGH CUSTODY OR FOSTER CARE OR OTHER PROGRAMS, THERE IS JUST A LOT OF STUFF THAT GOES ON IN THIS DEPARTMENT.

AND, SO, HAVING THAT TRANSPARENCY OF REPORTING OUT ON A REGULAR BASIS, AS THEY DO FOR THE LEGISLATURE, THAT MORE IMPORTANTLY, ALSO TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC, I THINK THEY'LL BE ABLE TO ACCOMPLISH A COUPLE THINGS.

ONE IS THEY'LL BE ABLE TO INFORM PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT IS ACTUALLY HAPPENING WITH THE DEPARTMENT, BUT THEY'LL ALSO BE ABLE TO HOPEFULLY GET SOME MORE INFORMED ADVOCATES OUT THERE WHO CAN REALLY KIND OF CLARIFY THINGS WHEN THINGS DON'T GO QUITE THE WAY THAT EVERYBODY HOPES IT GOES.

>> Gene: I WANT TO TOUCH ON YOUR LAST POINT THERE.

THAT IS INTERESTING.

IS IT A COMMUNICATION PROBLEM OUT OF THE DEPARTMENT?

I MEAN, NO ONE PERSON COULD BE TASKED WITH KIND OF PARSING OUT ALL THIS INFORMATION.

THAT IS A TOUGH GO.

>> Tom: A LOT OF TIMES IN ALL THE DIFFERENT STATE DEPARTMENTS IT COMES FROM A CULTURE OF COMMUNICATION.

YOU KNOW, THE CULTURE HAS TO BE ONE OF TRANSPARENCY.

AND, ONE OF THE CHALLENGES JUST IN STATE GOVERNMENT IN GENERAL OR ANY KIND OF GOVERNMENT IS THAT YOU HAVE A LOT OF VERY CAPABLE, QUALIFIED EMPLOYEES WHO ARE DOING THE BEST THEY CAN, BUT, YOU KNOW, WHAT THEY ARE REALLY SOMETIMES JUST WAITING OUT THE NEXT ADMINISTRATION.

THEY ARE WAITING OUT THE NEXT SECRETARY OR DEPARTMENT HEAD AND SO YOU HAVE SOMETIMES THAT CULTURE OF TRANSPARENCY GETS LOST SOMEWHERE ALONG THE WAY.

SO, THAT IS HOW YOU DO IT, THOUGH, YOU REALLY HAVE TO SAY IT IS A CULTURE.

I THINK SECRETARY VIGIL HAS REALLY KIND OF SHOWN THAT AND SO, YOU KNOW, NOW WE ARE ALL IN KIND OF A WAIT AND SEE BECAUSE EVERY ADMINISTRATION HAS HAD ISSUES WITH HOW DO WE INCREASE TRANSPARENCY.

AND IT IS KIND OF LIKE MY GOOD FRIEND RICHARD DRAPER USED TO SAY WHEN HE WAS WITH INTEL BACK IN THE DAY.

GOOD POLICY FOSTERS GOOD PUBLIC RELATIONS.

SO, IF THE POLICY IS FOR TRANSPARENCY, THEN YOU'LL HAVE MORE TRANSPARENCY.

GOOD.

>> Gene: GOOD POINT.

I WANT TO CIRCLE BACK TO SOMETHING ABOUT TRAINING BEING PART OF THE ADJUSTMENT PUT FORTH BY THE SECRETARY.

ACCORDING THE 27-PAGE REVIEW SHE ORDERED IT SEEMS LIKE THERE HADN'T BEEN ENOUGH FOCUS ON APPLYING THE TRAINING EMPLOYEES RECEIVE.

THIS SEEMS LIKE A COMMON BUREAUCRATIC ISSUE IN SOME GOVERNMENTS.

SHOULD THE DEPARTMENT ASK FOR OUTSIDE HELP IN ITS TRAINING?

>> Dave: WE EXPECT PEOPLE TO DO THINGS YET WE NEVER REALLY SHOW THEM HOW TO DO IT.

OR WE HAVE THEM, YOU KNOW, GO FOR THE TRAINING AND THEN THEY NEVER USE IT.

I THINK IT IS A PROBLEM EVERYWHERE SO THAT, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, BEEFING IT UP.

YOU CAN'T EXPECT PEOPLE TO DO THEIR JOBS IF THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE, YOU KNOW, SO I AM ALWAYS BIG ON HOW DO WE COMMUNICATE, HOW DO WE KNOW PEOPLE KNOW WHAT TO LOOK FOR THAT THEY ARE DOING THEIR JOB.

WHAT IS THEIR JOB?

WHAT IS THE JOB OF THE DEPARTMENT?

I THINK, YOU KNOW, IT IS IMPERATIVE THAT THE PEOPLE IN CHARGE OF THIS, LIKE TOM SAID, IF YOU CANNOT COMMUNICATE IT CLEARLY, WE HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU'RE DOING OR WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DO.

AND SO IF WE DON'T KNOW THOSE THINGS, HOW CAN WE TELL IF YOU HAVE BEEN SUCCESSFUL.

>> Gene: GOOD POINT THERE.

THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR THOUGHTS ON THIS.

WE'LL FOLLOW CYFD'S PROGRESS AS IT WORKS TO ENACT CHANGES.

WE'LL BE BACK HERE AT THE VIRTUAL ROUNDTABLE FOR ONE FINAL DISCUSSION IN ABOUT TEN MINUTES, BUT FIRST, THE U.S. NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION PLANS TO APPROVE HOLTEC'S NUCLEAR WASTE IN NEW MEXICO.

THE PRIVATE COMPANY HAS BEEN WORKING ON THAT FOR A FEW YEARS NOW, DESPITE OPPOSITION FROM MOST OF NEW MEXICO'S POLITICAL LEADERSHIP.

OUR LAND EXECUTIVE PRODUCER LAURA PASKUS JOINS US ONCE AGAIN TO TALK WITH STATE REPRESENTATIVE ANGELICA RUBIO ABOUT THE PROJECT THAT WOULD HAVE OUR STATE TAKE ON NUCLEAR WASTE FROM POWER PLANTS ALL ACROSS UNITED STATES.

>> Laura: REPRESENTATIVE RUBIO, THANK YOU FOR JOINING ME TODAY.

AS FORMER CHAIR OF THE INTERIM COMMITTEE ON RADIOACTIVE AND HAZARDOUS MATERIALS, YOU WERE PART OF LOTS OF CONVERSATIONS ABOUT HOLTEC.

NOW THE U.S. NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION HAS ANNOUNCED THEY PLAN TO APPROVE THE COMPANY'S LICENSE.

IS THIS PROJECT A DONE DEAL FOR NEW MEXICO?

>> Rubio: THANKS LAURA.

FROM A PROCESS PERSPECTIVE, IT ISN'T THE END OF THE ROAD.

THERE IS STILL A NUMBER OF STEPS THAT NEED TO BE TAKEN BUT WHAT HAPPENED LAST WEEK IS THAT THE ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT STUDY WAS APPROVED AND SO I THINK THAT THERE IS JUST A SENSE OF URGENCY FROM A LOT OF US TO OPPOSE IT BECAUSE IT WAS THE STEP THAT WE THOUGHT WOULD HAVE REALLY SORT OF ENDED THIS WHOLE CONVERSATION AND INSTEAD IT'S BECOMING MORE AND MORE, I GUESS, REAL THAT THIS PROJECT MAY ACTUALLY HAPPEN.

>> Laura: SO, IN THAT ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT STATEMENT, THE NRC NOTED THAT HOLTEC, A PRIVATE COMPANY, PLANS TO BRING 10,000 CANNISTERS OF NUCLEAR WASTE FROM COMMERCIAL POWER PLANTS FROM ACROSS THE U.S. BY TRAIN TO THIS AREA BETWEEN CARLSBAD AND HOBBS.

THESE CANNISTERS, I JUST WANT TO MENTION, ARE REALLY HUGE.

THESE AREN'T LIKE 50-GALLON DRUMS WE ARE TALKING ABOUT.

ARE THERE CERTAIN ASPECTS OF THIS PROJECT IN PARTICULAR THAT REALLY GIVE YOU CAUSE FOR ALARM?

>> Rubio: YEAH.

I MEAN I THINK OVERALL THE PROJECT IS VERY ALARMING, JUST BECAUSE THE LEGACY THAT WE HAVE HAD HERE IN THIS STATE WITH THESE TYPES OF INDUSTRIES REALLY IMPACTING FRONTLINE COMMUNITIES, THAT TO ME IS VERY TROUBLESOME, BUT I THINK AS SOMEONE WHO CHAIRS THE TRANSPORTATION COMMITTEE AND SEES A LOT OF THE PROJECTS HAPPEN AROUND THE STATE, RAIL IS NOT ONE OF THE PIECES OF INFRASTRUCTURE THAT I THINK WE ARE UP TO PAR TO BE ABLE TO SUSTAIN SOMETHING LIKE THIS.

THE COMPANY HOLTEC DOESN'T HAVE ANY IDEA WHEN -- LIKE THE END TIME.

THERE IS YEARS AND YEARS THAT HAVE BEEN DISCUSSED AROUND HOW LONG THE CANNISTERS WILL BE HELD IN NEW MEXICO BUT THERE IS LIKE NO ENDING.

AND THAT TO ME IS VERY PROBLEMATIC .

>> Laura: YEAH, THIS WHOLE IDEA THAT THIS IS TEMPORARY STORAGE, THEY WILL BE THERE FOR 40 YEARS WHEN WE DON'T HAVE A PERMANENT REPOSITORY ANYWHERE IN THE COUNTRY.

I WAS LOOKING BACK, EARLIER THIS YEAR THE WASHINGTON POST WROTE ABOUT NEW JERSEY'S OYSTER CREED POWER PLANT, WHICH HOLTEC NOW OWNS AND IS DECOMMISSIONING.

AND THE REPORTER WROTE THAT IN THE NEARLY THREE YEARS THAT HOLTEC HAS OWNED OYSTER CREEK, REGULATORS HAVE DOCUMENTED AT LEAST NINE VIOLATIONS OF FEDERAL RULES INCLUDING CONTAMINATED WATER MISHAPS, FALSIFIED INSPECTION REPORTS AND UNSPECIFIED SECURITY LAPSES.

DO WE HAVE A SENSE EVEN OF WHAT THIS COMPANY'S SECURITY OR TRACK RECORD IS LIKE, SAFETY RECORD IS LIKE, AND WHAT KIND OF RELATIONSHIP THE COMPANY WOULD HAVE WITH THE STATE?

>> Rubio: I THINK THE ISSUE WE ARE FACING RIGHT NOW AND BECAUSE IT IS A PRIVATE BUSINESS, NO.

1, IS CONCERNING FOR ME BECAUSE WE DON'T -- IT IS REALLY UNCLEAR, THE KIND OF -- HOW WE'LL ACTUALLY BE ABLE TO, I MEAN -- IT IS REALLY TOUGH TO SAY.

I MEAN, THIS IS, I THINK, WHAT IS SCARY ABOUT THIS WHOLE PROCESS, BECAUSE IT IS A PRIVATE COMPANY WE MAY OR MAY NOT BE ABLE TO HAVE THE KIND OF OVERSIGHT THAT I THINK IS NECESSARY AND THAT IS A REALLY BIG RISK FOR US AS A STATE.

AND I THINK WHAT IS SO FRUSTRATING FOR ME IS THAT AS PEOPLE ARE SO DESPERATE FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT OPPORTUNITIES THAT THEY ARE WILLING TO GO THIS FAR JUST TO CREATE SOME SORT OF JOB THAT PEOPLE MAY OR MAY NOT BE ABLE TO ACTUALLY BENEFIT FROM.

>> Laura: YEAH.

IT IS SO INTERESTING TO KIND OF WATCH THIS PLAY OUT AND I AM CURIOUS WHAT YOUR THOUGHTS ARE.

WHY IS NEW MEXICO THE PLACE THAT HAS TO TAKE THE REST OF THE NATION'S COMMERCIAL NUCLEAR WASTE?

IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO ME.

>> Rubio: I THINK IT GOES BACK TO, AS I MENTIONED, THE LEGACY OF THE STATE.

WE HAVE A TENDENCY TO DO THIS.

THIS IS WHAT -- I DON'T FEEL LIKE WE HAVE ANOTHER TYPE -- WE DON'T HAVE IMAGINATION FOR SOMETHING ELSE OTHER THAN TO CREATE JOBS OR TO DEVELOP JOBS THAT ARE ESSENTIALLY POISONING OUR COMMUNITIES AND DESTROYING OUR PLANET.

LIKE THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT WE HAVE BASICALLY ENTERED OURSELVES IN AND SO I THINK FOR ME THIS IS JUST FRUSTRATION THAT I FEEL.

I GREW UP IN THE SOUTHEASTERN PART OF THE STATE.

I AM VERY FAMILIAR WITH THE COMMUNITIES THAT ARE BEING IMPACTED AND THE FACT THAT NEW MEXICO HAS BEEN SELECTED AS THE PLACE TO DO THIS JUST SAYS SO MUCH NOT ONLY ABOUT HOW DESPERATE COMMUNITIES ARE FOR JOBS BUT ALSO HOW, I THINK, INSINCERE PEOPLE FIND OUR STATE.

IT IS VERY INSINCERE FOR THEM TO SEE OUR STATE AS BEING THAT PLACE WHERE YOU JUST COME AND YOU DUMP YOUR TRASH.

>> Laura: YEAH.

THIS PROJECT, THE GOVERNOR IS AGAINST IT, THE NEW MEXICO CONGRESSIONAL DELEGATION IS AGAINST IT, THE STATE LAND COMMISSIONER, LOTS OF PUBLIC OUTCRY, MANY STATE LEGISLATORS AND YET THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS STILL MOVING FORWARD.

THE PRIVATE COMPANY IS STILL MOVING FORWARD.

CAN YOU TALK ABOUT THAT?

>> Rubio: YEAH.

I MEAN, AGAIN, I THINK IT JUST GOES BACK TO THE LEGACY.

THIS IS WHERE THE ATOMIC BOMB WAS CREATED.

THIS IS WHERE FAMILIES, COMMUNITIES ARE STILL BEING IMPACTED BY ALL OF THAT TESTING.

I FEEL THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS -- PEOPLE ARE REALLY ABOUT STATES RIGHTS AND THIS SHOULD BE THE THING THAT WE SHOULD BE FIGHTING WITH ALL OF OUR POWER BECAUSE THIS IS, I THINK, IT IS AN INJUSTICE IN MY OPINION.

AND IT IS SOMETHING THAT I DON'T BELIEVE WE WILL EVER FULLY RECOVER FROM BECAUSE THERE IS JUST SO MUCH DANGER IN WHAT IS HAPPENING WITH THIS PROCESS AND THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT CHOOSES TO DISREGARD THE AMOUNT OF OPPOSITION TO THIS PROJECT SAYS SO MUCH ABOUT HOW LITTLE THEY CARE ABOUT NEW MEXICO AND THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE AND RESIDE HERE.

>> Laura: REPRESENTATIVE RUBIO, THANK YOU FOR JOINING ME TODAY.

>> Rubio: THANKS LAURA, I APPRECIATE IT.

>> Gene: THANK YOU, LAURA.

THIS PLAN IS NOT YET A DONE DEAL YET.

IT IS FIRMLY ON THE PATH, WE'LL KEEP FOLLOWING IT AND ASKING QUESTIONS UNTIL WE HAVE ANSWERS.

TIME TO BRING THE LINE OPINION PANEL BACK FOR ONE FINAL DISCUSSION.

EARLIER THIS MONTH, STATE REPRESENTATIVE REBECCA DOW WAS ORDERED TO PAY 500-DOLLARS FOR TWO ETHICS VIOLATIONS COMMITTED NEARLY TWO YEARS AGO.

WE TALKED ABOUT IT ON OUR ONE MORE THING SEGMENT ON OUR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS FACEBOOK PAGE LAST WEEK, BUT THIS WEEK THE SANTA FE NEW MEXICAN PUT IT IN SIMPLE TERMS.

WITH SUCH A SMALL PENALTY AFTER SUCH A LONG TIME, DOES THE STATE'S ETHIC COMMISSION, DAVE MULRYAN, HAVE ENOUGH POWER TO EFFECTIVELY POLICE THESE KIND OF VIOLATIONS?

>> Dave: I MEAN, YOU KNOW, THESE ETHICS COMMISSIONS AND PEOPLE PROVIDING OVERSIGHT TO POLITICIANS, I THINK ARE VERY DIFFICULT.

I MEAN, IF THEY ARE TOO STRINGENT THEN YOU'RE UPSETTING THINGS THAT MAYBE DON'T NEED TO BE UPSET.

ULTIMATELY THE VOTER DECIDES WHO SHOULD BE IN OFFICE AND WHO SHOULDN'T BE IN OFFICE.

AND I THINK IT IS VERY DIFFICULT FOR ETHICS THINGS BUT I SUPPOSE PEOPLE WOULD SAY BETTER TO ERR ON THE SIDE OF BEING A LITTLE BIT TOO HEAVY HANDED RATHER THAN BEING TOO NOT HEAVY HANDED, BUT I DON'T KNOW, I THINK IT IS A VERY DIFFICULT THING TO -- IF I HAVE TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, WHICH I SHOULD, DO THEY HAVE ENOUGH ENFORCEMENT POWER, I WOULD SAY, NO, HOW IS THAT?

>> Gene: GOOD POINT.

JULIA, THE COMMISSION'S EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR JEREMY FERRIS, YOU KNOW HIM WELL THROUGH THE SANTA FE NEW MEXICO, THAT THE AGENCY WORKS AS A DETERGENT NO JUST BECAUSE OF POTENTIAL FINES BUT ALSO BY BEING ABLE TO WRAP SOMEBODY UP IN THE TIME AND EXPENSIVE LITIGATING AND ETHICS CASE.

DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT?

>> Julia: I GUESS I FELT A MORE COMPELLING POINT HE MADE AND I THOUGHT THE STORY WAS A LITTLE CONFUSING BECAUSE IT POSES A QUESTION IT DOESN'T ANSWER AND NOBODY ACTUALLY LEVIED THAT ALLEGATION IN THE STORY BUT, YOU KNOW, FERRIS' POINT IS WE CAN ONLY GO AS FAR AS THE LAWS GO.

AND THAT TO ME SEEMS TRUE.

THEY CAN'T GO ABOVE AND BEYOND THE ACTUAL FINES AND LAWS.

IT IS NOT CLEAR TO ME FROM THAT STORY IF LAWMAKERS WOULD BE OPEN TO INCREASING EITHER PENALTIES OR LEGALITIES AND THE OPEN GOVERNMENT GROUP THAT SUPPORTS THE COMMISSION SEEM TO THINK IT IS DOING A PRETTY DECENT JOB.

SO, THE ALLEGATIONS OF THE STORY CAME MOSTLY FROM REPUBLICAN LAWMAKERS AND CANDIDATES WHO THINK THAT THE COMMISSION ITSELF HAS BEEN WEAPONIZED AGAINST THEM AND THERE IS NO ACTUAL SORT OF -- I THINK THAT SHOULD BE SORT OF QUANTIFIABLE BUT THE STORY DOESN'T QUANTIFY THAT.

SO I WAS LEFT A LITTLE BIT AS A HEAD SCRATCHER THINKING, WELL, YOU KNOW I THINK THERE IS WAYS IN WHICH THE ETHICS COMMISSION HAS BEEN KIND OF LIMITED TO REALLY JUST KIND OF MONITORING CAMPAIGN FINANCE COMPLAINTS WHEN THERE IS A WHOLE HOST OF ETHICAL ISSUES THAT I CAN IMAGINE IT WOULD BE HELPFUL TO HAVE THEM COME IN ON SUCH AS THE SITUATION WITH SENATOR IVEY-SOTO AND HIS RECENT CALL TO NOT HAVE HIM SIT ON SUBCOMMITTEES PENDING AN INVESTIGATION.

THAT SEEMS TO ME A QUESTION WHERE YOU WANT THE ETHICS COMMISSION TO BE ENABLED TO COME IN AND SAY, HERE IS WHAT WE THINK OF THIS, BUT IT IS SUCH A COMPLAINT-BASED SYSTEM THAT IS SET UP.

I GUESS I DON'T DISAGREE WITH DAVE THAT THEY ARE PROBABLY HAMSTRUNG TO SOME DEGREE BY THE WAY IT HAS BEEN CONSTRUCTED, BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT THE PROBLEM NECESSARILY IS WITH THEM.

>> Gene: GOOD POINT THERE.

QUICK REMINDER, SINCE WE MENTIONED MS. DOW, ACCORDING TO THE COMMISSION MS. DOW WAS BEING PAID BY APPLE TREE EDUCATIONAL CENTER, A FAITH-BASED EDUCATION PROVIDER SHE FOUNDED IN '99 WHILE REPRESENTING THE NON-PROFIT BEFORE NUMEROUS STATE AGENCIES.

SHE GOT DINGED FOR TWO VIOLATIONS, $250 EACH.

TOM, MR. FERRIS ALSO SAYS AGENCY'S LACKING AUTHORITY IS ROOTED IN THE STATE'S FINANCIAL DISCLOSER LAW WHICH HE SAYS NEEDS TO BE UPDATED.

HE SAYS HE WILL PUSH FOR AMENDMENTS.

DID HE HAVE A POINT THERE?

>> Tom: HE DOES.

ALL OF THIS WAS TALKED ABOUT MANY YEARS AGO WHEN I HAD DARK HAIR, YOU KNOW, EVERYBODY WAS FOCUSED -- I WAS NOT NECESSARILY FOR THE STATE ETHICS COMMISSION BECAUSE I THINK PEOPLE WERE GOING TO USE IT, AND THEY HAVE, AS A PART OF A CAMPAIGN STRATEGY TO THROW THE COMPETITOR UNDER THE BUS IN SOME FORM OR FASHION.

I DID ALSO SAY BACK THEN THAT THE STRUCTURE OF THE STATE ETHICS COMMISSION WILL BE, YOU KNOW, REALLY WHERE IT BUILDS ITS CREDIBILITY AND WITH JEREMY FERRIS THEY HAVE A LOT OF CREDIBILITY.

SEEING FIRSTHAND HOW THEIR PROCESSES HAVE WORKED, HIS LEADERSHIP STYLE, IF HE SAYS HE NEEDS TO HAVE MORE, YOU KNOW, ACCESS TO THE MORE FINANCIAL ACCOUNTABILITY AS FAR AS FROM THE CANDIDATES OR FROM ELECTED LEADERS, RATHER, THEN I THINK THAT WE NEED TO HAVE IT.

I THINK THAT JEREMY IS A VERY GOOD LEADER IN THAT PARTICULAR POSITION.

I AM NOT NECESSARILY THRILLED WITH THE ETHICS COMMISSION HAS A WHOLE BECAUSE OF WHAT I SAID EARLIER, BUT I THINK HE IS THE RIGHT PERSON TO KIND OF TRY AND REIN EVERYTHING IN.

IT IS NOT PERFECT BUT IT PROVIDES SOME KIND OF ACCOUNTABILITY WHICH IS WHAT THE ELECTORATE WANTED .

>> Gene: LET ME GO BACK TO SOMETHING JULIA MENTIONED -- IT IS INTERESTING A REPUBLICAN'S IDEA OF WEAPONIZING THIS COMMISSION AGAINST THEM OR JUST A QUICK REMINDER, THIS COMMISSION ALSO LOOKED AT GOVERNOR LUJAN GRISHAM, SPEAKER EGOLF, GEORGINE LEWIS HAVE ALL BEEN SUBJECTED TO REVIEWS.

THAT DOESN'T SOUND TERRIBLY ONE SIDED BUT IT IS EASY TO WEAPONIZE ANYTHING POLITICALLY IF YOU REALLY WANT TO.

>> Dave: THAT IS ONE OF THE THINGS, I CAN'T HELP LOOK AT WHAT HAPPENED TO SENATOR AL FRANKEN.

THERE WERE ACCUSATIONS THAT WERE MADE AND HE ENDED UP RESIGNING.

THE WHOLE THING DIDN'T SIT WELL WITH ME SO YOU HAVE TO BE CAREFUL, SOMEBODY DRAGS YOU -- I MEAN, I AM NOT CLEAR EXACTLY HOW YOU GET TO THE ETHICS COMMISSION.

DOES SOMEONE TURN YOU IN?

DO THEY LOOK AROUND AND, YOU KNOW, IT IS VERY UNCLEAR.

I THINK THAT I AM SURE IT IS VERY CLEAR TO THE PEOPLE THAT ARE DOING IT, HOW YOU DO IT, BUT FOR THE AVERAGE VOTERS, CITIZEN WE DON'T REALLY UNDERSTAND HOW THAT COMMISSION WORKS.

SO, TO ME, MORE TRANSPARENCY IN HOW IT WORKED WOULD BE BETTER.

>> Gene: GOOD POINT THERE.

JULIA, RIGHT NOW LEGISLATORS HAVE TO REPORT ANY AMOUNT OF INCOME OVER 5,000 AND THERE IS TALK OF LOWERING THAT NUMBER.

WOULD THAT SERVE THE PUBLIC BETTER OR WOULD ANYTHING LOWER TOO MUCH OF A PRIVACY VIOLATION?

>> JULIE: I DON'T THINK SO.

I MEAN, I CAN CERTAINLY UNDERSTAND HAVING SOME PRIVACY WHEN IT COMES TO COMPLAINTS THAT ARE FILED ON THE PORTAL ABOUT CERTAIN TYPES OF MISCONDUCT BUT ANYTHING RELATING TO CAMPAIGN FINANCING SHOULD BE 100% PUBLIC.

THERE IS NO REASON -- INCLUDING WHAT THE INVESTIGATION FINDS.

THERE IS JUST NO REASON FOR ANY OF THAT TO BE SHIELDED FROM THE PUBLIC.

>> Gene: GOOD POINT.

>> Tom: BRIEFLY, IT IS A TWO-TIER KIND OF THING.

THE STATE ETHICS COMMISSION IS ENFORCEMENT WING BUT AS FAR AS THE CAMPAIGN FILINGS, THAT IS SECRETARY OF STATE.

SO, PERHAPS THERE IS SOME MIDDLE GROUND BETWEEN THE SECRETARY TOULOUSE OLIVER AND THE ETHICS DEPARTMENT WHERE THEY CAN GO AHEAD AND WORK TOGETHER IN GETTING SOME LEGISLATION PASSED.

>> Gene: I HAVE GOT 25 SECONDS.

REMEMBER THESE LAWMAKERS OF COURSE ARE UNPAID VOLUNTEER LEGISLATORS.

AT WHAT POINT DOES THAT FACTOR INTO THIS?

SHOULD THAT STATUS PLAY ANY ROLE IN WHAT THEY SHOULD OR SHOULDN'T REPORT TO THE PUBLIC OR ARE WE JUST KIDDING OURSELVES UNTIL THEY ARE FULL-TIME PEOPLE?

>> Tom: I WOULD LIKE TO SEE A FULL-TIME PAID LEGISLATURE, BUT I DON'T THINK IT WOULD ELIMINATE ANY OF THESE ISSUES.

>> Gene: THAT IS A GOOD POINT THERE.

THANKS AGAIN TO OUR LINE PANEL AS ALWAYS THIS WEEK.

BE SURE TO LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT ANY OF THE TOPICS THE LINE COVERED ON FACEBOOK, TWITTER OR INSTAGRAM PAGES.

ANYONE ELSE GETTING PANICKED TEXTS OR CALLS FROM FAR OFF FRIENDS AND FAMILY OVER THE RIO GRANDE?

THAT IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN A FABLED RIVER GOES DRY.

IT MAKES THE NATIONAL NEWS.

THE REST OF THE WORLD NOW KNOWS WHAT IS HAPPENING WITH THE RIO AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO LIVE HERE TO BE SHOCKED OVER IT.

WE HAVE BEEN GETTING THE, WHAT IS A SILVERY MINNOW, QUESTION, IT IS VERY INTERESTING.

SHOCKING TO SEE OUR SITUATION NOW BEING A BAROMETER OF GLOBAL WARMING IN THE NATION.

I CAN'T HELP THINKING ABOUT ALL THE OTHER AREAS OF THE COUNTRY STRUGGLING WITH WATER AND FLOODING RIGHT NOW AND HOW STARKLY WE STAND APART FROM ALL THAT.

BUT HERE WE ARE.

I LIVE WITHIN A SHORT WALK OF THE RIVER, AND HONESTLY, THERE IS A PART OF ME THAT DOESN'T EVEN WANT TO SEE IT FIRSTHAND.

I'LL DO IT EVENTUALLY BUT IF A DRY RIVER INSIDE A MAJOR METROPOLIS DOESN'T TRIGGER SOMETHING IN YOU REGARDING GLOBAL WARMING, WHAT ELSE CAN?

THANKS AGAIN FOR JOINING US AND STAYING INFORMED AND ENGAGED.

SEE YOU AGAIN NEXT WEEK, IN FOCUS.

>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.