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♪ >>> HI, EVERYBODY, IT'S "REPORTERS ROUNDTABLE."

I'M DAVID CRUZ.

REALITY CHECK.

HATE IS REAL, AND IT MANIFESTED THIS WEEK IN A MASS SHOOTING IN GEORGIA.

EIGHT DEAD AND WHILE A MOTIVE IS NOT YET OFFICIAL, IT'S HARD TO IGNORE THE FACT THAT SIX OF THE VICTIMS HERE WERE OF ASIAN DESCENT.

WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THIS AND AS PART OF OUR EXPLORING HATE, OUR ONGOING SERIES THAT REPORTS ON RACISM, ANTISEMITISM AND EXTREMISM, WE'RE JOINED BY CONGRESSMAN ANDY KIM.

THANKS FOR TAKING A FEW MINUTES.

GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

>> THANKS FOR LETTING ME JOIN YOU TODAY.

>> WE WERE TOGETHER, I GUESS IT WAS JUST LAST WEEK TALKING ABOUT THIS WITH A SENSE OF PENDING DREAD THAT SOMETHING LIKE THIS COULD HAPPEN, AND NOW HERE WE ARE.

WE WERE TALKING ABOUT YOUR KIDS.

YOU SAID YOU LEARNED ABOUT THIS SHOOTING WHILE YOU WERE PUTTING YOUR KIDS TO BED THIS WEEK, HUH?

>> YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.

JUST THE OTHER NIGHT, I WAS TUCKING MY KIDS INTO BED AND I COULD FEEL MY PHONE JUST START VIBRATING WHILE I WAS TUCKING THEM IN AS PEOPLE FROM ALL OVER THE COUNTRY WERE FLAGGING THIS FOR ME, TELLING ME ABOUT THIS, ASKING, YOU KNOW, WHAT HAPPENED?

HOW MANY DEAD?

DO WE KNOW THE EXTENT OF THIS?

IT WAS JUST PANIC AND WHEN I HAD THE CHANCE AND I STEPPED OUTSIDE THEIR ROOM TO READ ABOUT WHAT HAD HAPPENED, I'LL BE HONEST, DAVID, IT REALLY BROKE MY HEART, JUST TO SEE, YOU'RE RIGHT, YOU AND I TALKED ABOUT THIS NOT TOO LONG AGO, AND THIS WAS ALWAYS THE NIGHTMARE.

YOU KNOW, THIS WAS ALWAYS THE THING WE WORRIED ABOUT, AND I'M HONESTLY, I'M SCARED AS WELL BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS THE WORST OF IT.

I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH MORE WE COULD EXPECT HERE.

>> YEAH.

I MEAN, THERE'S GOT TO BE A CALL TO ACTION NOW AT THE VERY LEAST TO RAISE AWARENESS THAT IT'S BEEN HAPPENING.

I MEAN, THIS WEEK WAS AN EXTREME CASE, BUT IT HAPPENS EVERY DAY IN WAYS, LESS VIOLENT MAYBE, BUT EQUALLY OPPRESSIVE.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

YOU KNOW, AS WE'VE BEEN INCREASING THE VISIBILITY ON THIS VIOLENCE AND HATRED OVER THE LAST FEW WEEKS, WE'VE SEEN A LOT MORE STORIES, A LOT MORE PEOPLE COME FORWARD WITH THEIR STORIES, PEOPLE THAT SAID THAT THEY WERE SILENT BEFORE, THAT THEY WERE SCARED TO REPORT WHAT HAD HAPPENED TO THEM OR, YOU KNOW, IN SOME WAYS, EQUALLY DEVASTATING AND WORSE.

I HEARD FROM PEOPLE THAT SAID THEY DIDN'T REPORT WHAT HAPPENED BEFORE BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T THINK ANYONE CARED AND THEY DIDN'T THINK ANYONE WAS GOING TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT.

SO, WHY EVEN BOTHER?

AND THAT KIND OF LONELINESS, THAT KIND OF ISOLATION THAT SO MANY PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY FEEL, THAT IS WHAT WE REALLY HAVE TO MAKE SURE WE COMMIT OURSELVES TO STOPPING.

>> WHAT KIND OF ACTION IS APPROPRIATE IN THAT REGARD?

HOW DO YOU COMMIT YOURSELF IN A REAL WAY THAT'S TANGIBLE FOR PEOPLE WHO WERE ALREADY MARGINALIZED AND ARE NOW DOUBLY MARGINALIZED.

>> IT STARTS BY ENGAGEMENT.

IT STARTS BY MAKING SURE THAT THE COMMUNITY AND THAT PEOPLE IN THE AAPI COMMUNITY FEEL SEEN AND HEARD.

I'LL TELL YOU, WHEN PRESIDENT BIDEN MADE REFERENCE TO THE VIOLENCE AGAINST ASIAN-AMERICANS IN HIS SPEECH LAST WEEK, I ALSO HAD A LOT OF PEOPLE CONTACTING ME, TEXTING ME, SAYING THAT THEY FELT SEEN AND HEARD.

I JUST HEARD THAT THE PRESIDENT WILL BE TRAVELING TO ATLANTA, TO GEORGIA WITH THE VICE PRESIDENT TO MEET WITH MEMBERS OF THE COMMUNITY.

I SEE OTHER SENIOR LEADERS STEPPING UP, BOTH IN THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH AND MEMBERS OF CONGRESS, GOVERNORS AND OTHERS.

THAT IS AN IMPORTANT PLACE TO START, AND TO LISTEN, TO HEAR ABOUT THIS WITH THE RAWNESS THAT I HEAR IT WITH FROM MANY OTHERS AND THEN TO THINK THROUGH WHAT COULD WE TANGIBLY WORK ON TOGETHER TO BE ABLE TO TRY TO HELP PEOPLE FEEL SAFE AND TO TRY TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY HAVE THE RESOURCES THEY NEED TO TRY TO MEANINGFULLY TACKLE THIS.

>> A GOOD START IS FOR PEOPLE TO LEARN MORE.

I MEAN, THE YELLOW PERIL, CHINESE EXCLUSION ACT, JAPANESE INTERNMENT CAMP, FOREIGN POLICY FROM THE PHILIPPINES TO HAWAII AND A LITTLE BIT OF HISTORY NOT TO MENTION, YOU KNOW, BUILDING THE RAILROADS AND BUILDING CITIES IN THIS COUNTRY.

THAT'S PROBABLY A GOOD WAY TO START, BUT THEN YOU LEARN THAT JERSEY HAS PROVEN TO BE PRETTY WELCOMING TO SOME OF THE MOST EXTREME VIEWS.

I MEAN, THE ANTIDEFAMATION LEAGUE PUT OUT A REPORT THIS WEEK, SAID NEW JERSEY WENT FROM 12 INCIDENTS OF REPORTED HATE PROPAGANDA IN 2017 TO 323 INCIDENTS LAST YEAR.

I MEAN, IT'S ON THE RISE.

>> IT'S SCARY.

IT CERTAINLY IS ON THE RISE, AND THIS IS SOMETHING THAT IS OUT IN THE OPEN, AND I HAVE SHARED WITH YOU SOME OF THOSE STORIES THAT I HAVE EXPERIENCED WHERE PEOPLE HAVE TARGETED ME AND FAMILY MEMBERS OF MINE AND FRIENDS OF MINE WITH RACIST REMARKS OVER THE LAST YEAR.

IT REALLY FEELS LIKE GASOLINE HAS BEEN POURED ON THE FIRE AND THIS IS NOT GOING TO JUST GO AWAY AT THE END OF THE PANDEMIC OR SOME OTHER MARKING.

THIS IS A DEEP CUT IN OUR SOCIETY, AND AS YOU KNOW, IT'S GOING TO REALLY REQUIRE THAT TYPE OF SUSTAINED AND EQUALLY DEEP ENGAGEMENT TO TRY TO HAVE ANY SENSE OF HEALING.

>> ALL RIGHT, LET ME SWITCH GEARS A BIT HERE WHILE I HAVE JUST A FEW MINUTES WITH YOU.

IMMIGRATION REFORM, MOVING IN THE HOUSE, VOTES EXPECTED THIS WEEK ON TWO MEASURES, ONE THAT'S GOING TO AFFECT DREAMERS, THOSE WHO WERE BROUGHT HERE AT CHILDREN WITHOUT AUTHORIZATION WHO ARE STILL LIVING HERE THROUGH THE DACA PROGRAM AND THEN ANOTHER BILL ON AGRICULTURAL WORKERS WHO, OF COURSE, IN NEW JERSEY, ARE THE BACKBONE OF INDUSTRY HERE FROM, I MEAN, FROM BLUEBERRIES TO EGGPLANT.

WHAT ARE THOSE BILLS, AND WHAT'S THEIR STATUS?

>> YOU'RE RIGHT.

WE'RE GOING TO BE MOVING FORWARD ON THOSE PIECE OF LEGISLATION AND BUILDING UP STEAM AND TRYING TO BUILD THAT COALITION THAT WE NEED TO GET THEM PASSED.

I'M A SON OF IMMIGRANTS MARRIED TO AN IMMIGRANT AND I VERY MUCH BELIEVE IN THIS DREAM OF AMERICA AND HOW MUCH IT HAS BEEN ON THE BACKS OF IMMIGRANTS THAT SO MUCH OF THE OPPORTUNITY HAS BEEN BUILT.

I THINK THAT THESE ARE AREAS WHERE WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO FIND A WIDE COMMON GROUND ON, A LOT OF PEOPLE ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE HAVE TALKED ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF THESE ELEMENTS OF HOW WE TACKLE IMMIGRATION, WHICH IS WHY WE ARE TRYING TO START HERE, WHICH IS WHY WE ARE TRYING TO BUILD THAT OUT.

I'M HOPEFUL THAT WE'LL BE ABLE TO PASS THIS IN THE HOUSE AND I THINK WE WILL BE ABLE TO THIS WEEK.

WHERE IT GOES FROM THERE, I STILL NEED TO SEE, YOU KNOW, WHAT THE CHANCES ARE IN THE SENATE AND ELSEWHERE, BUT YOU KNOW, THESE ARE DEFINITELY PLACES WHERE WE CAN BUILD THAT KIND OF BROADER COALITION, HOPEFULLY.

>> YEAH.

DEMOCRATS ARE ON THE ROAD.

THEY'RE HYPING THE BIDEN STIMULUS PLAN.

IT REALLY IS A REFOCUSING OF GOVERNMENT PRIORITIES, BUT DOES IT HAVE LEGS?

CAN ANY OF THIS BECOME PERMANENT, THE CHILD TAX CREDITS, SOME STUFF LIKE THAT?

>> WELL, RIGHT NOW, WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS JUST STOP THE BLEEDING IN OUR COMMUNITIES RIGHT NOW.

I'LL TELL YOU, I GET SOME REALLY DESPERATE CALLS FROM PEOPLE WHO ARE, YOU KNOW, FEELING LIKE THEY HAVE ONE LAST MEAL IN THE FRIDGE AND -- OR ONE LAST DAY WITH A ROOF OVER THEIR HEAD.

THEY'RE JUST AT THE END OF THEIR ROPE.

THAT BILL, THAT RESCUE PACKAGE, THAT'S FOR THEM.

THAT'S FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE THAT ARE STRUGGLING RIGHT NOW, FOR US TO TRY TO GET BACK ON THEIR FEET.

YES, THERE IS AN EFFORT WE'RE TRYING TO THINK THROUGH ON HOW WE SUSTAIN THIS, HOW DO WE KEEP OUR ECONOMY GROWING?

HOW DO WE TRY TO GET PEOPLE BACK TO WORK?

WE'RE TALKING RIGHT NOW ABOUT POTENTIALLY TAKING THE NEXT BIG STEP WHEN IT COMES TO INFRASTRUCTURE, SOMETHING THAT ALL OF US KNOW IS SO CRITICALLY IMPORTANT IN JERSEY IN PARTICULAR.

WE KNOW THAT THE ROADS, THE BRIDGES AND THE TUNNELS, THAT TYPE OF INFRASTRUCTURE IS OUR LIFEBLOOD SO THOSE ARE SOME OF THE STEPS WE'RE GOING TO TRY TO TAKE HOPEFULLY GOING FORWARD AND AGAIN TRYING TO DO AS MUCH AS WE CAN TO BE ABLE TO HELP THE AMERICAN PEOPLE THROUGH SOME OF THE TOUGHEST TIMES THAT THEY HAVE EVER FACED.

>> ALL RIGHT, WE'RE GOING TO STAY IN TOUCH ON ALL THIS STUFF WITH CONGRESSMAN ANDY KIM.

CONGRESSMAN, THANKS FOR TAKING A FEW MINUTES.

GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN, MAN.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH, DAVID.

>> LET'S BRING OUR PANEL IN HERE.

SUE LEVIO IS A STATE HOUSE REPORTER FOR NJ ADVANCED MEDIA.

DUSTIN IS THE STATE HOUSE REPORTER FOR THE RECORD AND "USA TODAY" NETWORK, AND MATT FREEDMAN IS A REPORTER AT POLITICO AND THE AUTHOR OF ITS NEW JERSEY PLAYBOOK.

PANEL, YOU HEARD THE CONGRESSMAN TALKING ABOUT HATE DIRECTED AT ASIANS.

NEW JERSEY IS NO STRANGER TO THIS.

DURING ANDY KIM'S CAMPAIGN, THERE WAS THAT RACIST FLYER THAT USED THE CHINESE FOOD MENU FONT.

YOU'VE CALLED OUT CONGRESSMAN SMITH AND VAN DREW ON THEIR ASSOCIATION WITH SOME OF THESE VOICES OF INTOLERANCE.

NEW JERSEY HAS ITS SHARE, NO?

>> YEAH, WELL, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE ONE OF THE BIGGEST ASIAN POPULATIONS IN THE COUNTRY, AND ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU COMBINE EAST ASIAN AND SOUTH ASIAN.

SO, NATURALLY, WITH ONE OF THE BIGGEST ASIAN POPULATIONS IN THE COUNTRY, WE HAVE SOME OF THE MOST INSTANTS LIKE THIS.

I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY DOUBT.

I HAVEN'T SEEN A LOT OF STATISTICS ON THE RISE IN VIOLENT ATTACKS, MAYBE JUST BECAUSE THERE HASN'T BEEN ENOUGH TO COMPILE.

CERTAINLY ANECDOTALLY WE'RE HEARING MORE AND THIS HORRIFIC EVENT DOWN SOUTH THAT JUST HAPPENED BUT I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY DOUBT THAT THE RHETORIC WE HEARD EARLY IN THE CORONAVIRUS, IT WAS BOTH APPOINTMENTLESS AND INFLAMMATORY WHEN, OKAY, SO WE KNOW THAT THE CORONAVIRUS ORIGINATED IN CHINA, AND WE CAN INVESTIGATE HOW IT ORIGINATED.

AND I'M NOT EVEN GOING TO CALL OUT THE CONSPIRACY THEORIES ABOUT THIS LAB AND STUFF BECAUSE FRANKLY, I DON'T KNOW ENOUGH.

BUT I DO KNOW THAT IT WAS COMPLETELY POINTLESS TO JUST SAY CHINA, CHINA, CHINA AS IF THAT WAS GOING TO ALLEVIATE THE PROBLEM HERE.

YES, IT STARTED IN CHINA BUT BY, LIKE, EMPHASIZING THAT, BY -- TO TRY, TO, LIKE, TAKE THE BLAME OFF YOURSELF FOR NOT RECOGNIZING THE THREAT EARLIER, AS THE FORMER PRESIDENT DID, THERE'S NO QUESTION THAT THIS INFLAMMATORY RHETORIC FILTERS DOWN.

AND WHAT REALLY BOTHERED ME ABOUT IT WAS, LIKE, WHAT'S THE POINT?

THE VIRUS IS HERE.

HOW ARE YOU HELPING SOLVE THIS PROBLEM BY JUST SAYING, YEAH, BUT CHINA, YOU KNOW?

AND I DEFINITELY THINK THAT CONTRIBUTED TO IT AND I HOPE THAT THE COOLING DOWN OF THAT RHETORIC WILL ULTIMATELY, YOU KNOW, LESSEN TENSIONS A LITTLE BIT.

AND I'M NOT EVEN SAYING THAT THIS IS TRUMP SUPPORTERS DOING THIS, NECESSARILY.

BUT WHEN YOU HAVE THAT KIND OF RHETORIC AT THE TOP, I JUST THINK IT KIND OF INFECTS EVERYTHING.

>> YEAH.

LET ME SWITCH IT UP HERE A LITTLE BIT.

DUSTIN, YOU HAD A PIECE RECENTLY ON TRANSPARENCY AT THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE.

LET ME QUOTE YOUR PIECE HERE.

YOU SAID, DESPITE FREQUENT PLEDGES BY LAWMAKERS AND GOVERNOR PHIL MURPHY TO RUN GOVERNMENT TRANSPARENTLY IN THE PANDEMIC, A YEAR LATER, THERE IS A LARGE BODY OF EVIDENCE SUGGESTING OTHERWISE.

THIS IS SOMETHING THAT HAS DOGGED THIS ADMINISTRATION FROM DAY ONE.

TELL US ABOUT YOUR PIECE THIS WEEK AND WHAT DID YOU FIND?

>> WELL, I REALLY JUST WANTED TO GATHER UP ALL OF THE EXAMPLES A YEAR INTO THE PANDEMIC OF THE DIFFERENT WAYS THAT MURPHY -- THE MURPHY ADMINISTRATION AND THE LEGISLATURE HAVE NOT BEEN TRANSPARENT.

WE'VE WRITTEN ABOUT IT HERE AND THERE THROUGHOUT THE PAST YEAR BUT I THOUGHT JUST KIND OF FILING IT AWAY ALL IN ONE PLACE AND TALKING TO SOME PEOPLE ABOUT IT TO, LIKE I SAID, LIKE I WROTE, YOU KNOW, THERE'S THIS LARGE BODY OF EVIDENCE.

TO ACTUALLY SEE IT ON PAPER OR ON YOUR SCREEN OR WHATEVER, IT'S A LITTLE BIT -- YOU KNOW, IT'S PRETTY STARK.

ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU PUT GOVERNOR MURPHY'S WORDS UP AGAINST IT, HOW MANY TIMES HAVE WE HEARD HIM SAY, THROUGH ALL THESE BRIEFINGS, YOU KNOW, WE WANT TO BE REALLY TRANSPARENT.

THAT'S ONE OF OUR TOP PRIORITIES.

BUT IN PRACTICE, THAT JUST ISN'T THE CASE.

OF COURSE, THERE'S A LOT OF THAT STORY IS FOCUSED ON MURPHY, BUT THAT'S BECAUSE THE LEGISLATURE HAS NEVER BEEN TRANSPARENT.

THEY'VE WRITTEN THEMSELVES OUT OF TRANSPARENCY.

SO, LAWMAKERS ALSO DESERVE A GOOD AMOUNT OF CRITICISM ON THAT FRONT, BECAUSE WHEN THEY SAY THEY WANT TO BE TRANSPARENT AND THEY DO ACT IN TRANSPARENT WAYS, IT'S REALLY NOT TRUE, MOST OF THE TIME, AND SO I JUST THOUGHT IT WAS IMPORTANT TO DOCUMENT THAT FOR PEOPLE NOW THAT WE'RE ONE YEAR INTO THIS, AND ANOTHER THING TO NOTE, YOU KNOW, THE ASSOCIATED PRESS FOLLOWED UP OR COINCIDENTALLY DID A SIMILAR STORY AND THEY FOUND THAT NEW JERSEY WAS ONE OF FIVE STATES THAT WOULDN'T TURN OVER CERTAIN CORONAVIRUS RECORDS, SO THAT'S A DISTINCTION THAT MURPHY ADMINISTRATION, I'M SURE, DOESN'T LIKE, AND IT'S A DISTINCTION THAT FOR ALL THE RHETORIC THAT WE HEAR, NEW JERSEY SHOULDN'T HAVE.

YOU KNOW, WE SHOULD BE OPERATING WITH AS MUCH TRANSPARENCY AS POSSIBLE, I THINK.

>> YOU SAID THE LEGISLATURE HAS WRITTEN ITSELF OUT OF TRANSPARENCY.

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

>> THEY HAVEN'T SUBJECTED THEMSELVES TO THE OPRA, OPEN PUBLIC RECORDS ACT THAT THEY WROTE, AND YOU CAN GET SOME RECORDS HERE AND THERE, BUT THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH IS MUCH MORE EXPOSED WHEN IT COMES TO THE STATE'S LAWS.

>> SO, WHAT KIND OF STUFF HAVE YOU BEEN LOOKING FOR, AND HOW OFTEN DOES IT GO TO AN OPRA REQUEST AND HOW OFTEN DO THOSE REQUESTS GET REJECTED?

>> YOU EITHER GET FLATOUT REJECTED FROM THIS BROAD EXEMPTION THAT THE STATE OFTEN CLAIMS, ADVISORY, CONSULTIVE, OR DELIBERATIVE, SO THAT'S A CATCHALL TERM.

BUT FOR THE MOST PART, IT'S REALLY BEEN A LOT OF DELAYS THROUGH THE PANDEMIC, AND THAT'S BECAUSE OF THE WAY THAT LAWMAKERS AND GOVERNOR MURPHY APPROVED OF REWRITING OPRA TO ESSENTIALLY LIFT THE TIMELINE, THE DEADLINES THAT THEY HAVE TO GET BACK TO YOU, SO SOME PEOPLE I'VE TALKED TO WITH EXPERIENCE ON THIS THINK THAT SOME CUSTODIANS HAVE ALL OF THEM, HAVE USED THAT TO THEIR ADVANTAGE TO JUST, YOU KNOW, DELAY REQUESTS FOR WEEKS AND MONTHS, FIND STUFF THAT'S BEEN SITTING IN CERTAIN AGENCIES FOR MANY MONTHS NOW AND I DON'T HAVE ANY HOPE OF SEEING THAT ANY TIME SOON.

>> SUE, YOU AND TED SHERMAN HAD A PIECE ON THE LONG-TERM CARE FACILITIES DEBACLE IS THE BEST WORD I CAN FIND FOR IT.

I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THAT, SPECIFICALLY, IN A MINUTE, BUT PIGGYBACKING ON TO DUSTIN'S COMMENTS, WHAT'S YOUR EXPERIENCE BEEN LIKE TRYING TO GET SPECIFIC INFORMATION FROM THIS ADMINISTRATION?

>> WE HAVE HAD TO EMPLOY LAWYERS NUMEROUS TIMES THROUGHOUT THE PAST YEAR TO GET INFORMATION THAT UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES WOULD IT BE PRIVATE, SO IT'S INFECTION REPORTS, IT'S CONTRACTS.

IT'S INFORMATION ABOUT HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE DIED.

IT TOOK AN ORDER FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH TO PUT UP A LIST THAT -- APRIL 20th OF HOW MANY PEOPLE HAD DIED AND HOW MANY PEOPLE HAD BEEN INFECTED IN EACH OF THE FACILITIES.

SO, WE KNOW THAT THEY KNOW.

THEY'VE BEEN CRITICIZED FOR THIS.

THEY'VE BEEN ASKED NUMEROUS TIMES AT BRIEFINGS ABOUT THEIR LACK OF TRANSPARENCY, AND THEY SEEM TO ACT WITH IMPUNITY.

>> MATT, HOW ABOUT YOU GUYS AT POLITICO?

THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE SAYS 170 COVID-19 BRIEFINGS, 300 MEDIA INTERVIEWS, THAT'S AN EXAMPLE OF TRANSPARENCY.

IS IT NOT?

>> YEAH, BUT WHEN YOUR BRIEFING IS -- WHEN YOUR ANSWER IS, DATA DETERMINES DATES AND I'LL GET BACK TO YOU ON THAT OR, YOU KNOW, I'VE GOT NOTHING MORE TO ADD ON THAT, THAT'S NOT EXTREME TRANSPARENCY.

I THINK THE FACT IS, YOU KNOW, IN NEW JERSEY, IF AN ADMINISTRATION CAN GET AWAY WITH IT, THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE TRANSPARENT.

IT'S NEVER IN THEIR POLITICAL INTEREST TO BE TRANSPARENT.

THE CHRISTIE ADMINISTRATION WAS NOTORIOUSLY NOT TRANSPARENT.

THE OTHER ADMINISTRATION WAS SO LONG AGO AT THIS POINT, I CAN'T REMEMBER, BUT I DON'T THINK IT WAS VERY TRANSPARENT ITSELF.

OUR TRANSPARENCY LAWS SUCK AND UNLESS WE ACTUALLY GET THE PUBLIC AND THE LEGISLATURE TO REALLY OPEN UP THE STATE AND, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, I WISH WE WERE MORE LIKE FLORIDA.

YOU KNOW, I'M HAVING TROUBLE JUST GETTING THE MOST SIMPLE FACTS ABOUT THE ARREST OF A STATE SENATOR FOR DWI TWO WEEKS AGO.

YOU KNOW, JUST SOME BASIC REPORTS.

AND I'M HAVING TROUBLE GETTING THOSE.

IT'S AT EVERY LEVEL OF GOVERNMENT.

OUR TRANSPARENCY LAWS ARE WEAK.

THEY'RE JUST WEAK.

AND AS LONG AS OUR LAWS ARE WEAK, I DON'T EXPECT ANY ADMINISTRATION TO VOLUNTARILY COME OUT AND GIVE MORE INFORMATION THAN THEY CAN GET AWAY WITH NOT GIVING.

>> THAT'S RIGHT, FOLKS.

IT WAS MATT FREEDMAN WHO SAID, I WISH WE WERE MORE LIKE FLORIDA.

>> ONLY IN THAT ONE SENSE, THAT ONE NARROW SENSE.

>> ALL RIGHT, SUE, LET'S TALK ABOUT YOUR PIECE.

YOU AND TED SHERMAN HAVE BEEN ALL OVER THE PROBLEMS THAT THE STATE'S LONG-TERM CARE FACILITIES, 8,000 PEOPLE DEAD, CRITICS SAY BECAUSE THE STATE TOLD THESE OPERATORS THAT THEY HAD TO TAKE COVID PATIENTS BACK INTO THEIR FACILITIES.

IS THAT TRUE?

IS IT TECHNICAL TRUE?

IS IT NOT TRUE?

>> SO, THE STORY WAS PROMPTED BY THE COMPARISONS GOING ON BETWEEN GOVERNOR CUOMO IN NEW YORK AND NOW GOVERNOR MURPHY.

THEY HAD SIMILAR ORDERS.

I THINK NEW JERSEY WAS MORE CLEAR THAT IT TOLD NURSING HOME OPERATORS, LONG-TERM CARE OPERATORS THAT IF YOU COULD NOT PROPERLY COHORT, MEANING SEGREGATE THE SICK FROM THE WELL AS WELL AS THE STAFF TAKING CARE OF THOSE PEOPLE, YOU DID NOT HAVE THE PERSONAL PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT, YOU NEED TO GET ON THE PHONE AND CALL US RIGHT AWAY, AND WE'LL FIGURE OUT A SOLUTION.

SO, WE'VE FOLLOWED UP ON THIS OVER THE PAST TEN MONTHS, AND THERE WERE ABOUT A HUNDRED LONG-TERM CARE FACILITIES OUT OF THE GATE SAID, WE CAN'T DO THIS.

AND THEN BY THE WEEK'S END, THERE WERE A TOTAL OF ABOUT 200.

AND I THINK IT GREW FROM THERE, BUT WHAT THEY DID WAS WHERE THEY COULD, THEY CREATED COVID-ONLY NURSING HOMES.

THERE WERE PLACES THAT WERE WILLING TO TAKE THEM, HAD SPACE TO TAKE THEM.

I THINK THE LINES WERE A BIT CLEARER IN NEW JERSEY COMPARED TO NEW YORK.

NEW YORK HAS LOTS OF OTHER PROBLEMS.

GOVERNOR MURPHY DOESN'T HAVE ABOUT HIDING HOW MANY NURSING HOME PEOPLE HAD DIED.

I THINK WHERE IT GETS TRICKY IS THAT YOU'RE RELYING ON LONG-TERM CARE FACILITIES, MANY OF THEM RUN BY FOR PROFIT COMPANIES, TO DO THE RIGHT THING AND NURSING HOME RESIDENCE ADVOCATES COME OUT AND SAY, YOU KNOW, NEW JERSEY HAS NOT DONE A GOOD JOB, HISTORICALLY, OF REGULATING AND POLICING NURSING HOME CARE.

WHY WOULD YOU LEAVE IT UP TO THEM?

YOU KNOW, THEY'VE BEEN LOSING MONEY BECAUSE OF COVID OR EXPENSES AND PEOPLE ARE DYING SO IT HAS BEEN A DEBACLE, AND SO THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT'S NOT GOING AWAY FOR GOVERNOR MURPHY BECAUSE IT'S AN ELECTION YEAR.

>> ONE OF THE THINGS I LIKED ABOUT SUE AND TED'S STORY WAS THAT IT WAS NUANCED AND THIS ISSUE HAS REALLY BEEN MISSING THAT.

WE'VE HEARD JOE, THE REPUBLICAN STATE SENATOR, CALL THIS A GENOCIDE.

HE ACTUALLY USES THAT WORD.

AND LET'S TAKE A STEP BACK.

I THINK WE CAN ALL ASSESS THIS AND SAY, IN HINDSIGHT, IT WASN'T A GOOD DECISION TO DO THIS.

WE DON'T KNOW IF IT'S TIED DIRECTLY TO OUR HIGHER NURSING HOME DEATH RATES BUT YOU ALSO HAVE TO LOOK BACK AT WHEN THIS DECISION WAS MADE AND WHAT THE WORRIES WERE AND WHAT PEOPLE WERE TALKING ABOUT IN THIS PANDEMIC BEFORE WE KNEW A LOT MORE ABOUT IT AND CLEARLY THE WORRY WAS THAT HOSPITALS WERE GOING TO BE COMPLETELY OVERWHELMED IN A WAY THAT DIDN'T QUITE HAPPEN.

AND I THINK IT'S PRETTY CLEAR THAT THAT WAS DRIVING THIS DECISION.

YOU KIND OF HAVE TO LOOK AT THIS STUFF.

YOU HAVE TO TAKE IT ALL.

YOU HAVE TO TAKE IT ALL IN THE CONTEXT OF ITS TIMING AND I'M NOT SAYING THERE WEREN'T THINGS MISSED, THERE CERTAINLY WERE.

WHAT HAPPENED IN WASHINGTON STATE PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE BEEN A WARNING BUT IT'S A LOT EASIER TO LOOK BACK AND FRANKLY A LOT OF THE POLITICAL RHETORIC IS MURPHY KILLED 8,000 NURSING HOME RESIDENTS.

WELL, WE DON'T KNOW HOW MANY WOULD HAVE DIED HAD THIS ORDER NOT TAKEN PLACE.

WE CAN CERTAINLY SAY THAT OUR DEATH RATE IS WORSE THAN ANY OTHER STATE IN THIS, MAYBE NOT NEW YORK.

I'LL HAVE TO LOOK AT THAT BECAUSE THEY FUDGED THE NUMBERS.

BUT ALSO NOT LIKE NEW JERSEY, AS SUE MENTIONED, WASN'T MORE TRANSPARENT THAN NEW YORK.

I REMEMBER AS OUR NURSING HOME DEATHS WERE CLIMBING AND CLIMBING, I REMEMBER LOOKING AT NEW YORK AND SAYING, WHY AREN'T THEIRS AS BAD AS OURS?

BECAUSE THEY'RE SO SIMILAR IN THE WAY THAT COVID HAS HIT THERE BECAUSE THEY'RE OUR NEIGHBORS AND NOW WE KNOW.

BUT I THINK WE NEED TO GET PAST THE, LIKE, HEADLINE OF, LIKE, THIS MANY PEOPLE DIED.

I THINK CALLING IT A GENOCIDE ISN'T DOING ANYONE ANY FAVORS.

LET'S TAKE AN HONEST ASSESSMENT OF WHY THIS HAPPENED, HOW THIS HAPPENED, AND I'M NOT SAYING IT WAS A GOOD DECISION, I THINK IT'S PRETTY CLEAR AT THIS POINT IT WASN'T, BUT I DON'T THINK ANYONE INTENTIONALLY PUT PEOPLE IN HARM'S WAY.

>> DUSTIN, VACCINE DISTRIBUTION.

WHAT ARE WE AROUND 12% NOW?

ANY SENSE THAT AT SOME POINT, SUPPLY IS GOING TO MEET DEMAND?

>> WELL, THAT'S WHAT GOVERNOR MURPHY SAYS.

HE SAID AROUND THE END OF THE MONTH, WHEN WE GET MORE JOHNSON & JOHNSON VACCINES, AND OTHER SUPPLIES, THAT THE FLOOD GATES ARE KIND OF GOING TO OPEN UP.

SO, HOPEFULLY THAT'S THE CASE.

BECAUSE IT'S REALLY BEEN SLOW GOING, AND THAT IS NOT NECESSARILY THE FAULT OF THE MURPHY ADMINISTRATION, BUT IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE HOW THIS SUPPLY-DEMAND ISSUE ACTUALLY SHAKES OUT, BECAUSE YOU KNOW, FOR THREE MONTHS NOW, GOVERNOR MURPHY'S BEEN SAYING, WELL, WE'RE ALL SET.

YOU KNOW, WE JUST DON'T HAVE THE SUPPLIES.

SO, ONCE THE SPIGOT DOES OPEN UP, IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE IF WE ARE ACTUALLY FULLY PREPARED FOR THIS, BECAUSE -- AND SUE PROBABLY KNOWS THIS MUCH BETTER THAN I DO.

YOU HAVE TO HAVE STAFF AND THE PERSONNEL AND THE SUPPLIES TO ACTUALLY ADMINISTER THOSE SHOTS.

>> SO YOU THINK WE'RE GOING TO GET THERE THIS SPRING?

>> I THINK DUSTIN'S RIGHT.

I THINK THE J&J VACCINE IS A BIG GAME CHANGER OR WILL BE FOR US.

IT HASN'T BEEN YET, BUT YOU KNOW, AT THE SAME TIME, THEY'RE GOING TO BE ADDING MORE PEOPLE TO THE QUEUE, SO I THINK IT WILL BE A CHALLENGE FOR THE FORESEEABLE FUTURE.

WE CONTINUE TO HEAR FROM PEOPLE WHO ARE PANICKED THAT THEY'RE NOT VACCINATED.

YOU KNOW, IT'S -- IT'S A VERY STRESSFUL TIME, AND -- BUT I THINK THAT YOU WILL SEE, YOU KNOW, AND I MEAN, THIS HAS COME UP RECENTLY IN MY REPORTING, BECAUSE WE CONTINUE TO HEAR ABOUT PEOPLE IN THE HEALTHCARE INDUSTRY WHO ARE RESISTING THE VACCINE, WHO DON'T TRUST IT, AND THE FIRST RESPONDERS.

SO, YOU WOULD THINK THAT WITH THE VACCINE RESISTANCE OUT THERE, THERE WOULD BE SOME OPENINGS FOR THE PEOPLE WHO REALLY WANT IT, BUT I GUESS THAT REMAINS TO BE SEEN.

>> ALL RIGHT, STILL MORE TO GO ON THAT FRONT.

THAT'S "ROUNDTABLE" FOR TODAY.

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