On Rob at Home the maker of a film that chronicles the journey of a Sacramento family on the search of a lifetime.

- Growing up, it was always kind of a mystery about my dad and his side of the family.

- These are scenes from the documentary Far East Deep South, where filmmaker Baldwin Chiu takes you across America to find missing pieces in his familys history.

- One day, we came across this photo of a gravestone, and that's when my dad finally told us that this is where my grandfather and great grandfather were buried...

But not in China, in Mississippi.

- What!

- Great grandpa!

- Oh, my God!

- The documentary also serves as a history lesson, delving into the lives of Chinese people living in the segregated South from the late 1800s to mid-1900s and the horrors of the Chinese Exclusion Act blocking citizenship of Chinese people for more than 60 years.

- It is so important for people to know what happened with the Chinese Exclusion Act and how if effected Chinese Americans throughout the nation, including the South.

- And youll experience a remarkable journey of healing and hope.

- I knew all of your family.

- Filmmaker Baldwin Chiu joins us on Rob at Home.

♪♪ And now Rob on the Road- exploring Northern California.

Baldwin Chiu joins us from Pasadena, California.

Baldwin, it's great to see you here on Rob at Home.

Hey, great to be here in your home.

[Laughs] And in yours.

So, thank you for doing this.

Baldwin, I watched your film, and I don't know when I have been so moved by a documentary.

Cried my eyes out.

Um, what a powerful documentary!

Thank you.

You know, my dad cries, too, and he's seen the movie probably 20 times.

[Laughs] I think it's actually music to our ears to hear grown men cry, um, at our film, um, because that really wasn't what we set out to, you know, to do.

We really wanted this to just kind of be, um, a story about our life, a story about- that hopefully reflects into other people's lives.

But we had no idea how moving the film would be.

Um, and I got to give credit to my wife, uh, Larissa Lam.

Uh, she's also the director and the writer of our film, because if it was up to me, I would... depict it really boring and just super historical, just a bunch of talking heads and just really diving into like a history class, uh, which... which, you know, I think our film is able to kind of do, too.

But, um, I think my wife- My wife was like, you know, what makes our story more relevant is really the... the story behind our family and hoping that people can see that their lives can be reflected in ours.

And you don't even have to be Asian or Chinese American to even... to even feel that type of emotion.

Um, we hope that it, um, you know, emotionally sparks everybody's heart.

Well, kudos to your wife for having, um, the emotion of this story in the movie because you mentioned a history lesson in there, if you will, and the emotion in this piece, um, it... it transcends, as you said, any, uh, race or ethnicity.

And... and it takes you to the heart of the matter.

Things I did not learn in history, and including- In the film, you talk about things that you didn't learn in history as well, or don't remember learning.

I didn't either.

The... the Chinese Exclusion Act.

Yeah.

Yeah, The Chinese Exclusion Act was something... - Let's jump into that.

...yeah, definitely, um, something we never learned about.

It's... it's weird because I grew up in Northern California, right?

I lived in California my entire life.

And, really, Chinese Exclusion Act- California was really the hardest hit area in the United States, yet we still didn't learn about it here.

And I think what we tried to do with the film was- I mean, I kind of mention it in the film, how I thought, you know, the Chinese Exclusion Act, when I first learned about it- maybe... maybe only ten years ago, uh, or a little bit more than ten years ago is when I first learned about it- I just thought it was just an old law, you know, it had no relevance anymore.

We're... we're past that, let's move forward.

I didn't realize the consequences of the Chinese Exclusion Act, how it... uh, affected my family.

And when I started learning about how it affected my family, not just right now and not just... not just my family back then, but for multiple generations, my family has been affected by the Chinese Exclusion Act.

And it really made me wonder, if... if it affected my family, um, how many more families did it... did it affect?

Um, so, definitely, Chinese Exclusion Act, uh, you know, not be- Uh, and just- So, you know, a little more- a little bit more about the Exclusion Act, it's really, uh, an old law in 1882 that started because of the Transcontinental Railroad.

There was a lot of animosity towards the Chinese community, uh, because of the success of the Transcontinental Railroad, uh, being completed in 1869.

And there was just a lot of hate towards the Chinese.

They didn't want them to be laborers here anymore.

They didn't want Chinese to become citizens.

We obviously didn't want, in America, for the Chinese population to grow.

Hence the Chinese Exclusion Act was, um, was a device, um, that was set to just get rid of as many Chinese and Asian people as possible in this country.

Mmm.

Hmm.

Just saying that, what does it make you feel?

I mean, as an American, it makes me feel kind of embarrassed.

Um, and as someone of Chinese descent, it's very hurtful.

Um, I think that's kind of where our film kind of try to meets this.

I mean, it's not the only topic, but it's a big part of the film, um, because what it did was it... it caused our families to separate and, you know, both my father, um, and even myself, for a little while, you know, dabble- I dabbled with being in the military for a little bit.

I ended up not going all-in, but my dad surely did.

And he's retired from the Air Force.

So, you know, he taught us and we grew up very patriotic, you know, going to the Air Force bases and always standing with the flag, you know, always, you know, covering our hearts.

And we always were proud.

Especially me, being the first one that we thought was born in the United States.

It was, like, this very proud moment in my family, to just be Americans.

And when we learned about the Chinese Exclusion Act, something that we never learned about in schools- You know, my brother says it so well in... in the film, about how he took AP history- and actually, I took it, too, and... and so did my wife- and none of us learned about the Chinese Exclusion Act in California.

And that shock about how it actually affected our family, um, uh, I think that's where the conflict is.

It's that mixed feelings, um, that my dad talks about in the film, how you can be so happy and joyful being an American and being in America, but at the same time, feel so much pain and heartache, um, having an experience in America, just simply being Chinese.

The Boston Globe reviewed this film and... and wrote about your film, as well as many other papers across the country.

Of course, you... you aired nationwide on... on various PBS stations as well, including this one.

Um, and The Boston Globe says, "It is a surprising, sobering history lesson," which you'll see more of in this program here.

And then, the movie guide gave it four out of four stars.

"Far East Deep South is a beautiful, emotional journey."

That... that emotion is captured so well, and it- When you go back with your dad- Let's just start there, when you go back to Mississippi, and he wasn't interested in doing this at all.

Having a father that was never around, and him not understanding that Chinese exclusion was what prevented his father from reuniting with him, how Chinese exclusion was the thing that kept my grandfather away from my father his entire life.

Um, he just grew up thinking that, you know, he just needs to move on and deal with the fact that he was abandoned by a father that didn't love him.

And, um, when we went to Mississippi, I think all those emotions that he went through his entire life trying to suppress- You know, that's the reason why he never really talked about it to us, it was... it was bad and hard memories that he didn't want to bring back up.

He just wanted to move forward.

Um, having it all come back out in Mississippi.

And then, as we continue to dig and do more research, and we'll come back home and go to the archives, and... and then go back to Mississippi and talk to more people, and then pullin' out photos and stuff like that, that he tried to bury and not really think about.

Um, you know, it was... it was one of those- he says it in the film as well- mixed feelings.

You know, he's learning something, but... but there's- he's bringing up all the pain that he's- he was trying to suppress for his entire life.

It seemed to me that he also- and... and tell me if I'm wrong, this is what I... this is what I felt watching it- When your father said, "Baldwin, look."

You know, and you come over there, and you're inside the... the museum, the Mississippi Delta Chinese Museum, I believe is the name.

- Right.

Heritage Museum.

Right.

- Heritage Museum.

And... and you're, um, you're there with your mom and your brother and your- Your family's- Your whole family's there, and you can see in your dad's eyes that... that he finally knew he mattered to his dad and found out that his dad had missed him all along.

- Yeah.

- Um, am I right with that?

Yeah, um, and, you know, something that's not in the film was, like, even in that reckoning, um, you know, as my wife was filming him and... and, uh, she found out- and... and I wasn't there, you know, this was stuff that my wife experienced- was that even though he was reading that letter over and over to learn about how much his father actually loved him, he still didn't quite understand the grasp, because at that moment when we went to Mississippi, he didn't really understand what Chinese Exclusion Act was and how it affected his family.

He just- He really didn't know.

So, he's reading the letter, thinking, "OK, then if he loved me, then why did he leave me?"

Right?

He had no context on what were the things holding back my family from being reunited or being together, his family being together.

So, reading that he was loved, but yet still experiencing that he was left alone or... um, you know, those are the conflicts that he had to go through until he finally understood and we did the research on Chinese Exclusion Act and what it meant to our family.

Um, he finally, finally understood, "Well, OK. Well, maybe it wasn't his fault."

You know, maybe it wasn't his father's fault.

Maybe it was something bigger than all of us could have imagined.

We talked about what you learned professionally.

How about personally?

What did you learn in that journey of... of making this film that comes into your life today?

Yeah, I mean, growing up, I think my... my personal problem or issue, I would- I don't know if that's the right word to say, but my experience was always my identity.

Who... who am I?

What am I?

Right?

People always said- You know, people would always say, like, "So, uh, what are you?"

Like, what am I?

Like, a human?

"What are you?"

Am I just some sort of something that's not real?

And I think I did battle with that because it was like, "So, am I American or am I Chinese?"

So, who am I considered?

- When people would ask you like, they'd say, "Where are you from?"

And you'd say, uh, "San Francisco."

- Right.

Or Sacramento.

- But then you- they would say, like- Or Sacramento, 'cause you- Weren't you born and then moved here, to Sacramento?

Yeah and I raised... raised in Sacramento, lived there a long- big part of my life, and it was never enough.

And I know, eventually, it was like, "OK, well, I'm Chinese."

Right?

So, I guess my issue was always like, well, am I... am I Chinese or am I American?

You know, I don't usually ask people where they're really from, if they were white or if they're black or if they're- You know?

And so, for me, my identity was always like, "Well, am I foreign?...

Because I was born here."

But then, you know, for all the Chinese immigrants, they were like, "Well, you're the American one."

And then, when I'm with the non-Chinese people, they're like, "Well, you're the Chinese one."

And so, there's this, always, conflict in my head, like, "Am I Chinese or am I American?

To whom am I Chinese, and to whom am I American?

When do I get to choose?

Or do I even get to choose when I'm American, or when I'm Chinese?"

And I think through this process and understanding our history, understanding my family dynamics and all the- I mean, just understanding life in America and learning more about our political system and everything, I think what I learned is that we're both.

I'm both.

We're all both.

We're both something and something else.

We're all American and we're something else.

We're all descendants of somebody that came from somewhere else.

Um, but that doesn't mean we don't belong here.

And I think- You know, for me, I was always told, "Oh, America is a melting pot."

Right?

America is a melting- We should all just blend together and everything is fine.

Well, obviously, that's not the case because... personally, I think fondue is an ugly, yellow-orange-beigey color and it's really not healthy.

Right?

So, do we really want to classify... - And it's been fried.

It's been fried.

[Laughs] -Right?

Do we really want to classify our American experience by fondue in a melting pot?

No, I think...

I think what we need to reclassify America as is more of a salad.

We all have individual beauties in itself.

Mixed greens even has different shades of greens.

We have tomatoes, lettuce, you know, you have onions, red onions.

You have your proteins, your cheeses, different colored cheeses.

Right?

You have- Each one of us has something special and beautiful and... and delicious, in and of itself.

But then, when we mix ourselves and toss ourselves in this salad bowl- right?

- and we're all- now we're together.

We see each other's colors, you know, contrast each other's, but yet, blend beautifully.

And then, it's... it's healthier.

And I think that's how I want to view America.

That's how I think we should all view America, that we're this salad bowl.

And right now, we're trying to find the healthiest ingredients to put in there.

Our... our... our country needs to understand that when we're together and we celebrate our individualness, but yet, at the... at the same time, celebrate all our shared commonalities, and we learn from each other, we experiencing things together, um, that's when we are going to be at the healthiest moment, uh, in our history.

That's beautiful.

I really love that... that, um, analogy of... of the... the salad.

Um, I...

I love that.

Um, and- I'm trying to be vegetarian too, but I'm doing a bad job at it.

[Laughs] Well, what I love about- But you can throw proteins in salads too, you know?

Yeah.

What I... what I love about what you just said is that we can think of... of people who are trying to take everything out of that salad and make it all the same... - Mmm.

Right.

- ...but yet, look how bland that is.

And when you bring in all the different things, it makes it so wonderfully, uh, delicious, and so- - Yeah.

- And it makes it a full meal, if you will, a full experience.

- Now I'm hungry.

- I...

I know.

Me too.

I want to also talk about something that you just mentioned, "the American one," and I'm referring to you being born here.

Um, it is- One of the things I love the most about my job is to maybe see a different perspective.

And watching your journey on this film, and saying something back to you- and I'm curious for your thoughts on this- what I took away from this film is- one of the things- is that the "American one" healed the one that felt the most broken by the American experience.

- Not "experience," but what... - Interesting.

- ...they experienced here.

And that was your dad.

I felt like you helped heal your father.

Wow.

Um, yeah, that- there's... there's- I mean, there's probably some truth to that.

You know, we've had a few people say that and- You know, definitely, you know, growing up with my dad was not always, you know, great.

Um...

I'm a hip hop artist, too.

I'm into entertainment.

And you're really good, by the way.

I listened to your... your hip hop.

I listened to your rap.

I mean, and you also weave in your life- personal story in... in your music.

It's really, really good.

Yeah.

But my dad, um, you know, he still doesn't like rap music.

I'm going to have to...

I'm going to have to be OK with that.

Uh, so, there... there's tension.

You know, like, he wanted to do things the way that he knew how to do things, uh, in... in China, but yet, he was in America and he tried to be a good dad, but he had no... he had no understanding of how to be a good dad 'cause he had never had a father.

Um, I'm the American one with a bunch of American friends.

I'm playing football.

I'm listening to hip hop, um, and it just is a lot of clashing.

Uh, but I think what happened during this journey was that, um, him understanding that our journeys don't have to clash, our journeys can be just a part of growing, um, him growing up as a father, as... as an older man with a lot of life experience, and me learning, trying to figure out what life is even about as I was growing up.

I think that's all a part of that American journey.

And it's... it's an experience that is unique, um, to Americans, right?

I mean, you can only feel American in America.

You... you... you can have similar types of countries in other parts of the world that have democracy, but the American experience is... is... is the American experience.

So, I think, um, you know, my dad, finally, I think after this film, we had a conversation- we had many deep conversations about, like, why am I doing this?

Why am I putting my family out there in the public?

Why does he, being so private, have to be out there and let everybody see?

And I had to...

I had to let him know, like, this is not our family story anymore.

It's not his story.

It's not my story.

It's everyone's story in this country.

It's an American story.

It's a story that... that we want other people to know that it's not just about Chinese people or Chinese Americans or people that look Chinese.

It's about the experiences that we all have in this country and that there are so many more stories out there that are unknown and untold that we hope that our story inspires people to share with us, you know, and share with each other.

And then, my dad realizes that the American experience is all of our experiences, and they don't have to be the same.

They're... they're different for everyone, and they're beautiful for everyone, and they're... they're painful for everyone.

But how do we bring all those experiences together to grow?

And I think my dad finally realized that, because after we had a conversation, he finally looked at me and he just said, [sighs] "OK." And that was it.

I always love to ask people this, and I really want to know from you because this has been such a journey for you, um, with... with just making this film, with how it has impacted your life and your family's lives, and is there something on your heart that you didn't discuss in the film or that you've not really thought about sharing but that must be shared to make this moment between you and me matter, that everyone else will see?

- Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, I think, um- I think a lot of times we get caught up in our own struggles and we... we talk about our own lives being the most important lives out there.

Um, something my daughter taught me during the pandemic, um, as I was putting her to bed, she said to me, um- You know, this- it's when, you know, all this anti-Asian stuff was going on, there was COVID stuff going on, and then Black Lives Matter stuff was going on.

And we see a lot of things- And, you know, we really tried not to watch the news or listen to the news, and- but we couldn't get away with it, couldn't get away from it.

And so, one time, she asked me, she's like, "Daddy," you know, "what is racism?"

And she's six years old at this time, or, you know, turning seven.

And she's like, "What is racism?"

And so, I had to explain to her in... in child terms.

I'm like, man, I really didn't want to explain this to her because I didn't want her to see life through the eyes- you know, as race only.

And so, I explained to her and I was like, "You know, sometimes, people don't like certain people because you might be darker, or you might look different, or maybe your eyes or hair looks different."

Um, 'cause she goes to a Chinese immersion school here in... in... in Pasadena.

And she talks- She... she's- Her Chinese is better than mine.

And- But she has mostly non-Chinese speaking friends at her school.

But they all speak Chinese now.

And her first friend was Black.

And she was talk- came home one day from school and she was talking about her friends.

And I'm like, "Which friend is that one?

Is that the Chinese kid?

Is that the Black kid?

Is that the white kid?

Which... which kid are you talking about?"

She was like, "Daddy, we're all Chinese in our school because we all learn Chinese."

And this is her in kindergarten.

I was like, "Oh, you're all Chinese?"

She was like, "Yeah, but we're all Americans because we recite the Pledge of Allegiance every morning."

So, then, I'm like, OK, then... then we're... we're getting into this.

And she goes, "Oh, well, so-and-so, but she's my Chinese friend that has dark skin," and "She's my other Chinese friend with yellow hair," and "That's my other Chinese friend with blue eyes."

Right?

She... she didn't realize that there was Black, white...

Right?

She only knew her context.

So, when I explained to her, I was like, "Well, you know, some of your friends, they're- they look differently than you and me and Mommy.

There are some people out there, in the past that don't like them just because of the way they look."

And she said something to me that was really profound.

She go- And this, you know- We're in bed getting ready to say our prayers, and she's asking me this at night.

So, deep thoughts at night.

And she's all, "Daddy, that's just weird!

And in fact, that's just plain silly!"

And this is, like, a six year old telling me this, you know, during COVID, you know, stuck in home, you know?

And, you know, she only sees her friends, now, on Zoom.

And I think that's really what it is.

You know, if... if we can all just narrow this whole thing down as racism is just weird and silly, I think we'd solve a lot of things.

Maybe all of it.

That is so beautiful.

That is one of the most beautiful statements I have heard.

And, you know, it also shows that racism is taught and learned.

- Yeah.

- It is taught and learned.

Children do not come into this world racist.

- Mmm.

- They are taught.

- Yeah, and that's on us.

Right?

That's us, as the parents.

That's us, as grown ups.

That's us, as the educators.

That's us, as people that are tutors or mentors to our children.

That's on... that's on us.

So, um, if we're the ones teaching them- - And it's on us to intervene.

It's on us to intervene... - Exactly.

- ...with the ones who are being taught that.

- Mmhmm.

So, um- - I love what you said.

- So, we... we have... we have a job to do to make sure our kids don't grow up that way, too.

I think you are fascinating.

Um, I knew that you would just be such an inspired and such a, um, important person to talk to, because anyone who can do what you and your wife did on film, just imagining how you live your lives is just so inspiring to me.

And I thank you for that.

Thank you so much.

All the information, you can go to pbs.org/videos and you will find, uh, all the information for the wonderful film Far East Deep South, as well as trailers.

And you can watch it there if you have the PBS app.

And Baldwin Chiu, I just cannot thank you enough for joining us from your home in Pasadena.

And it is great to talk with you today.

Thanks for having me, Rob.

Absolutely.

Thank you so much.

We'll see you next week right here, on PBS KVIE Rob at Home.