Annc: And now Rob on the Road, exploring Northern California.

Rob: This is so exciting, and ever since I've had this show, this is someone I've always wanted to have here for you.

Such a ray of light and a special human being- Joey Garcia, a multi-passionate entrepreneur, and someone beloved in our region for her sage words of wisdom and advice.

Joey, it's great to see you.

Joey: You too, Rob.

Thank you so much for the privilege of being here with you.

Rob: Oh, thank you.

It's... it's all our privilege.

We're thrilled to have you.

Uh, you have had a... a tremendously successful career in Sacramento for... for decades, talking about issues of the heart and of the world, through the heart.

You have had a column for decades, as well as, uh, you're an author, life coach, public speaker- All of these different things add up to Joey Garcia.

But at the through line, it's "I see you."

Joey: Yes.

Rob: That's how I feel about you.

I feel like you see people and you talk to them one-on-one, through your column.

Joey: You know, I...

I feel like that is one of my gifts, is to see and tell the truth about what I see.

And it's sometimes messy and, um, ugly, uh, but it's all meant, uh, to align with my value that love includes challenge, that I have to challenge myself to be my best, and I have to challenge others to be their best.

Rob: Hmm.

Joey: That's important to me.

Rob: That's beautiful, what you just said, that love includes challenge, because in our lives, we know that, but I'm- sometimes, we don't apply that to the world.

Joey: In part, because we have been sold a bill of goods about what li- love is, and what love isn't.

And that is problematic for us in many ways.

Here, in the United States, we have one word for "love."

Many countries, in their languages, they have many words to- for love.

So, I will say, "I love pizza," and I will say, "I love you."

Are they the same?

That's... that's a problem right there.

We also think of love in terms of romantic love, um, and the idea that someone will be there and do everything for us, um, maybe the way a parent does for a very young child.

And that concept gets us into great trouble in relationships, not only with others, but also with ourselves.

Rob: So then, let me ask you- We talk about, um, this... this image, or imagination, of love, w... what we think, and think it isn't.

What is it?

Joey: So, I think that love is, um, our ability to be present in every moment with whatever is coming to us, and to hold our belief systems lightly, so that we can make decisions based on what is, um, really connected to, uh, equality, in the moment.

I think love and equality are very, very, um, bound together.

So, if I am equal to every person, every situation, every symbol, every institution, then I am actually embodying love.

Rob: Wow!

That is so beautiful.

Joey: Right, and that's not how we think of it.

Because think- Rob: That is so beautiful.

Joey: Right.

So, if I- And if I'm doing that, then- and... and... and then I get passionate about making sure that's the truth for someone else, then they also are able to stand in love in equality.

Rob: Hmm.

Joey: So, it requires a great deal of inner work for me, as a human person, and I would imagine for others as well, to notice where I allow my belief system to get in the way.

So, if I'm...

I'm believing that- I don't know, um- that someone should never, um, suffer in love, then I- that idea can get in the way as much as the idea that love is suffering.

Rob: Hmm!

Joey: Um, a... a... a person who is a workaholic and is, um, constantly, uh, working because they believe that that is providing for their family... that person then canceling time with their family in order to work, in order to provide for their family.

That's not love.

Right?

That may be a kind of addiction or compulsive behavior.

Rob: Mmhmm.

Joey: But some people carry the idea that that is love, to provide for one fam- one's family.

They don't see that they're actually killing themselves and the love that they could be creating with their family.

So, it's very complicated.

And what most of us want is a very simple way of looking at things, but we have to apply it to our own lives and, usually, we need some help to do that.

We need somebody else there to help guide us.

Rob: That- and that's where a life coach comes in.

One of the... Joey: Yes.

Yes.

Rob: ...the facets of... of Joey Garcia.

I also want to say that I just heard you say something and it struck a chord with me, about, you know, someone- work... workaholic, and that's... that's how they feel they show love.

And that may be what they saw as love all along, but there's a difference between what we've seen and what we see.

Joey: Yes.

Yes, and they're not seeing themselves.

They're not noticing, or maybe they're in denial about the impact on their body, the impact on their emotions, that they're so tamped down, like, you know, the old horse with blinders, um, uh, metaphor, that they're not seeing, really, anything else.

They're so driven by their belief system, which is, um, tied to values that are not, uh, in their best interest at all.

Rob: You have been having conversations.

People write to you, um, all the time and ask you for advice.

Where do you feel the common thread that ties?

Because so many people are searching.

Right?

They're- Especially now, with isolation and division, people are searching, and I...

I'm really- I want to stop talking about isolation and division, and I want to talk about, um, coming together and ways to unite, and I would love to know what you're seeing as a through line to... to bringing people together, because you have a way of talking to one person that feels like you're talking to every single "one person."

People watching feel like, "She's talking to me."

Joey: Well, uh, let me back up from that, and say that part of that is because I take every problem on as my problem.

So, really, I'm writing to myself, and then it echoes through every... everyone else.

Um- Rob: Oh, that's lovely.

Joey: Yeah, I think, also, that idea of a through line through everything- I...

I think that we have... we have been educating our children, our young people, um, according to systems that worked very well in the 19th century, but not anymore.

And we have not caught up.

Rob: I have followed you with... with joy for so long, and even in joy, in times of sadness.

Um, and I have found that I first thought that you were writing a column.

Then, I realized that the column was a spillover of your calling... Joey: Yes.

Rob: ...that there is something much bigger going on, and the column that you have written spilled out of your... your living.

Joey: That is so true.

And, um, thank you for saying that, and for seeing me, and seeing that.

It, um- You know, I, um...

Rob: You're welcome.

Joey: I have an interesting history, when it comes to my calling, and I have not spoken of it, um, but I'm writing about it now.

I'm writing a memoir.

And it really starts in my childhood when, uh, my grandmother said, "Oh, you know, we're decide- We're descended from a long line of Mayan priestesses," and I thought I heard "princess."

And I said, "Princess?"

and she said, "Priestess," and I thought, "Women could be priests?"

And the next day, because it's the kind of kid I was, I put a sign up that said, "Priestess for hire.

25 cents."

I started to baptize cats and, you know...

Rob: Oh, my gosh!

Joey: ...marry dogs.

And... and I was having a great time, and this woman in my neighborhood discovered me doing this and she said, "Witch blasphemer!

You're going to hell."

Well, kids went in every direction, and, you know, I was like, "W... Why is she upset?

My parents know what I'm doing.

They don't care."

Rob: "Doesn't she know that I come from a long line of priestess?"

Joey: But she went to the church and told the parish priest, and he came to our house and threatened us, um, that he was going to tell immigration that I was doing pagan rituals in the backyard.

And this was, you know, the sixties.

So, it was a time when people were afraid of these sorts of things, and here I was, just this innocent kid having a good time.

Um, but that has stayed with me, that idea that someone is going to, um, point out, you know, that I am doing something wrong, um, even when I'm in my joy and helping others.

So, I think that I...

I have, um, gone back and forth, of being out in the world and then, not being out in the world.

You know, I...

I worked as a healer for- I mean, a hands-on healer.

I could, for a time, diagnose people.

Uh, so they could go their doctor and say, "I think it's my liver," or whatever.

Rob: Wow!

Joey: I was doing, you know, medical, intuitive work.

And I also worked with a doctor, here in Sacramento, doing that work.

Um, it's just been this path.

And then, a very interesting thing happened.

Um, the editor of the News & Review at the time, Melinda Welsh, asked me to write the column, because she'd seen some writing I'd done and she had heard that I was teaching these workshops.

People were lined up, Rob, outside my house in South Sacramento...

Rob: Wow!

Joey: ...to have sessions with me.

I was not even in the mindset to know that I should make appointments.

They would just line up, and then one of my friends said, "You know, you should charge money," and I was like, "Oh," and I put out a little dish to charge money.

But I was just offering healings.

I would interpret dreams.

I would create herbal teas for people.

I was just doing all this kind of thing.

Well, Melinda found out about this and she said I- you know, "I think you should write a column for us," and I thought, "Oh, my degree's in political science.

I could write about city hall."

And she said, "No, no, no, no... An advice column.

Like Ann Landers," and I was like, "Oh no, I can't do that."

She didn't tell me for three years that the reason she was so insistent that I write the column- 'cause I said "No" to her three times- Rob: Wow.

Joey: She didn't tell me... she didn't tell me it was because she had a dream that I was the person to write the column.

Rob: No way.

Joey: Yes, and the whole thing is sort of driven by this wonderful, divine undercurrent, uh, that moves through all of our lives.

Um, but notice I said "No."

I said "No" three times, and that tells me a lot about myself.

Rob: Well, but it also- It- If I may... Joey: Yes!

Rob: ...it sounds like it tells you a lot about that experience as a child, where you stepped into knowing exactly who you were, and somebody stepped on it... Joey: Yes, exactly.

Rob: ...and it... it left that mark on you, but it left a mark on the "human Joey."

It did not leave a mark on the "called Joey."

Joey: Yes.

Beautifully said, Rob.

Thank you.

So, I've continued to follow this call.

It's taken me places I didn't expect, like teaching high school.

That was not something I had ever planned to do.

Um, and, you know, it's bringing me, now, to a new place, um, that I think will, you know, be the next step in my journey.

So, the memoir is part of it, to explain how I became this person who thinks the way I do.

Rob: Joey, that is marvelous.

That is something that I think is going to help a lot of people, um, find what they're looking for to align, um, in their lives.

And I am so proud of you doing this because it's hard work.

That's why you coach people to do it.

Joey: That's right.

Um, it is hard work.

And I got a lot of help along the way, and I continue to do so.

I have a tight inner circle of friends who are, um, frighteningly honest, and I think that's very important for all of us.

We often lean toward our friends who prop us up, but I actually need friends who are gonna say, "Oh no, here's the other side of that... that situation," and to tell me things, maybe, I don't want to admit or hear, but that I really need to know.

Rob: Very, very valid point.

Very important point in life.

So, I...

I just- I- There's, like, so much gold inside of you I just want to pull, pull, pull out, because you offer it so freely.

Joey, what is- What's on your heart right now?

Joey: Hmm.

Well, what's on my heart?

I think I have a lot of, um, concern right now for young people who've been sold a story about the way to live their lives, and they're... they're struggling.

You know, they're... they're unhappy with college and leaving jobs, and we're seeing that those things are not working the way they should anymore.

I don't think all of us realize how much the world is changing, that we are in the midst of a massive change that is not just about a virus moving through the world, but it's rather about the radical, uh, shift toward equality for all of us, if we choose to make the... the concessions and decisions that will allow that to happen.

Rob: So, is that how you- What would you advise someone who may be watching this right now?

Um, because it's so funny, we were going to start off talking about finding love at any age.

That was the topic for this program and we- and you and I have just gone [exclamation] because that's what I- we do, but- And that's okay.

Joey: Yes.

Rob: That's great.

So, I do want to ask you, when talking about, uh, healing a broken heart or going through a breakup- And I talk about these things because if we're going to talk about finding love at any age, I would assume, for many people, that's going to come with a... a broken heart, or two, or 10 along the way.

Joey: Yes.

Rob: And so, um, I say that because I- it is so important for me to not really talk about the other person, but to... to do what you're talking about, and that is, "let me get on with the learning of what I may have done wrong..." Joey: Yes.

Yes.

So, if I- Rob: ...and to honor knowing what I did right was not invalid because of a breakup.

Joey: Yes, because so many of us are so indoctrinated to believe that we are good and right, um, and, uh, beloved by God if we are in a relationship.

Um, and that concept gets us into trouble, gets us to hold onto relationships we need to let go of, we should have gone out of, which- So, really, I might say, "He lied to me, but I lied to myself to stay in the relationship."

And that's what we need to see, is "What did I do to contribute to my own unhappiness in this situation?"

Um, once I can figure that out, um, I can go through all the emotions and there's nothing wrong with any of the emotions that come with this.

Right?

I'm going to cry.

I'm going to be depressed.

I'm going to be, um, dr- you know, um, uh, maybe too dried up, emotionally, to spend time with others.

I might go through many things.

Um, that's okay.

Emotions, uh, can be normal until we sit in them too long.

And then, we make them into, um, problems for ourselves.

Rob: Wow.

That's... that's really good, "...until we sit in them too long."

Joey: Yes.

Yeah.

Well, and I- Rob: So, what are we doing if- What are we doing to allow ourselves to sit in them too long?

Joey: Well, um- Rob: How do we identify that?

Joey: That's a great question.

There's so many layers to answer that.

What is it?

You know, people will, um, feel sad and depressed about a breakup- and teenagers, especially, do this- so they'll listen to sad, terrible breakup songs.

Rob: Ok. Over and over.

Joey: Right!

Right?

So, they try to make it worse.

Or... or maybe, um, there's the guy who keeps reaching out, um, to the other man who... who he sees "rejected him."

Right?

Um, we keep trying to make it better, fix it, when, really, there's nothing to be fixed.

A breakup, as painful as it is, is just a life experience.

Like any other life experience, I'm going to go through it.

Uh, it's not something that... that I should avoid or, um, should never happen to me, or means that I'm a terrible person, or that I'm unlovable.

It just means that, um, I have matriculated in some way.

I matriculated from a normal relationship, you know, to the end of a relationship.

That's all.

It's a death.

Rob: It could be a breakthrough.

Joey: Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah, if we allow it to be.

If we allow it to be.

Rob: Right, if we allow it to be.

Yes.

Joey: Yeah, and I find that, um, a lot of kids don't want to talk to their parents about breakups, for example- and that's when I see kids, even young people in their twenties.

They'll talk to their grandparents- which is interesting- but, sadly, grandparents will say things like, "Well, there are a lot of fish in the sea."

They lean on these old sayings that are not helpful, because whoever that person is, um, believes that the person they, you know, they were in relationship with, had the breakup with, is "the fish in the sea" for them.

Rob: Yeah.

Joey: So, saying "there a lot of fish in the sea" is... is, um, really, um, discounting the level of their, um, emotion.

Rob: So, when we talk about finding love at any age, what I really want to say and ask you about is... is self-love, instead of searching for that "soulmate."

Joey: Yes.

Yeah.

You know, most people don't realize that the concept of "soulmate" came out of a Greek comedy.

It was never meant to be something true.

Rob: Really?

Joey: Um, it was a joke, yeah, um, uh, that you would find this "other half of yourself."

That was considered a joke, back then.

So, it's interesting how we've made it into something that we are so invested in.

For me, personally, I really believe that what's important is not that I find the world in one person, but that the world is my soulmate.

And... and I've said that to you, I know, at other times.

It's so important to engage in that way.

That is an act of self-love because it keeps me present.

It keeps me present, which is love.

Right?

If I... if I want things to get back to normal, that's living in the past.

That's not about being present and wanting, uh, to love myself as I am now.

Love is noticing what my body needs.

It's not saying, "Oh, I can sit here for five more minutes before I go to the bathroom."

It means, "Right now, I'm going to get up and go because I need to take care of myself," or, "I need, um, some water.

Let me get some."

It's self-care.

It's not overdriving ourself in a direction in order to succeed.

Rob: That's powerful.

That's very powerful.

Do you, um- Do you have clients of all ages?

Joey: I do.

Yes, um, I do, and I'm thrilled that, um, some of the people that I worked with when they were teenagers have cycled back, now that they're young professionals, or married, um, and in relationship raising children.

And that's exciting to me, uh, because they got such, um, a good foundation, and they only need a- just a little bit of extra help to get through, maybe, something else.

So, that's... that's something I value.

But, you know, um, one of the things that I used to love, uh, is, um- and still love- you know, is getting questions from people who are in retirement facilities, because I love to point out to them that their concerns are the same ones that the teenagers that I taught in high school have, when it comes to dating and relationships.

They're worried that, um, you know, this guy is looking at other pe- other, um, potential partners, or their- someone's flirting with their... their partner.

It's all the same stuff.

Rob: Absolutely.

Joey: It's all the same stuff that bothers us.

So- Rob: It's the same thing at every age.

Joey: It is, and people wanting to be good, um, and... and wanting to make sure that they're aligned with, uh, their spiritual beliefs, with the divine.

Um, that's... that's something that doesn't, you know, it doesn't have an age attached to it.

So, it's a lot of the same... same issues.

Rob: You know, I do- I...

I really have to ask you, because one thing I have started seeing is how quickly life goes by.

Joey: Yes.

Rob: And that, um, time... time can just [snaps] go like that.

A year, a decade can go so fast.

And there are signs, I believe, all along the way that are tailor made for you, um, and when I've ignored them... Joey: Yes.

Rob: ...the time got messier.

And when I saw them, uh, the time got better.

But regardless of the age.

When you- You can start seeing the signs that are for you.

Does that sound wacky?

Joey: Not at all.

Not at all.

Rob: Honestly?

Ok. Joey: It is so right on.

Um- Rob: Why?

Joey: You know, when I was talking about love as equality, and equality as love, that- and I said, "It's to be equal to symbols and institutions."

It's what you just said.

I have to notice my particular symbols and metaphors in my life, and when they reoccur, to be awake, present enough to, um, to be able to say, "Ah!

There it is again, and that means this."

This is, um, almost, uh, almost a cliche, but it's what happened to me.

So, during times in my life, um- especially in my twenties and thirties, when I was struggling quite a lot- I would have a bird, you know, fly right next to me and start singing.

And I'd think, "Okay..." It was almost something that felt biblical.

And one day, I said, "Okay, great.

Well, this can't be true," and a whole flock of birds came onto my car and started, like, look- you know, singing and doing bird things.

Ok.

I wanted to discount that first bird and then a whole flock came.

Wow!

I can't discount that.

Noticing it reminded me that I am seen, I am loved, I am present, and I can take care of myself.

I may need to ask for help.

I can't do everything myself, but I- Whatever struggle I'm in has meaning for me.

So, birds are... are an important symbol for me.

And, uh, there are other things too.

There are other patterns to our lives, I think, that are significant.

But the flip side of that, that we have to be careful of, is obsessing over a pattern instead of moving forward through the trauma or struggle.

Reversing things can be incredibly helpful to find a deeper reality that may also be true, in addition to what I think.

And if I hold both, instead of clinging to just one side- If I hold both, then I'm in a place of freedom because now I can see more.

Right?

Rob: That is beautiful.

It goes back to that place of... of love as equality.

Joey: Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

We wouldn't be in the trouble we're in, if we... if we, um, loved each other as equals.

Rob: Very true.

Very true.

How truly touched I am that you would give of your time and of your... your, um, your talents and your gift, because when you share it, I've seen the impact you have on people.

I've sat there and watched as you've spoken to groups, and to see the lights come on for people is something that you never forget.

Joey: Oh, Rob, thank you so much.

That, um, touches my heart and I'm going to try, right now, not to cry.

Thank you.

That was beautiful.

Rob: That is something that, um, has truly made a mark on me.

Joey: Thank you.

Thank you.

Rob: You are someone- Joey: As your presence makes a... a mark on... on my heart, I'm grateful for you.

Rob: Thank you.

I...

I just want you to know, when we were talking about having you here, everyone was so excited.

Joey: Oh, thank you.

Rob: And, um, I'm just thrilled for you and I cannot wait to see what your next chapter holds.

Um, I know it's bright, and we will have you back when it- Joey: Thank you!

Rob: Whatever... whatever's coming up next for you is, you come right here to talk about it.

Ok?

Joey: That's- That is something I'm so deeply grateful for.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Rob: I am so grateful for you spending this time with us.

Joey Garcia, a multi-passionate entrepreneur.

Now, that is a new title!

And I love that you said that 'cause it's just so cool!

Joey: Oh, thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Rob: Thank you so much.

And you can find Joey anywhere on social media.

Just type in Joey Garcia, and you will find her presence and you, too, will see her light.

We will see you next week, right here on Rob at Home, and you can check us out online.

Uh, just search for Rob at Home, and you can watch us anywhere on the PBS app.

Bye.

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