(energetic music) - [Announcer] Murphy Austin Adams Schoenfeld LLP, focusing on business law and commercial litigation, is proud to support "Rob on the Road: Region Rising."

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(upbeat music) - The Crocker Art Museum is home to the world's foremost display of California art.

After a quarter century, the visionary leader who transformed the face of the arts in Northern California is retiring.

Lial Jones joins me to discuss the Crocker's impact on the arts, the museum's future, and the profound effect that great art can have to move and inspire us.

- [Announcer] And now "Rob on the Road" exploring Northern California.

- And Lial Jones joins us now, and I am thrilled that you are here.

Thank you, Lial.

- Of course.

- You are truly legendary, and to me, an icon.

Of all the masterpieces at the Crocker, you know, I've said this before, I think you are the greatest of the masterpieces.

- Thank you, Rob.

- How does this feel to you?

- How does this feel?

- The change.

- The change of retirement?

I've worked in the museum field for 50 years.

I started actually before I could drive, before I had my driver's license, I was still in high school.

I knew I wanted to work in a museum.

And I started by being a volunteer.

The day I turned 18, I was hired by New York State, Department of Parks Recreation and Historic Preservation, to do basically the job I had been doing as a volunteer but now to get paid for it.

I went to school, studied museum studies, studied American studies, art history, political science, history, et cetera.

So an interdisciplinary background that I think is pretty good for an art historian to have since art is basically a product of the society in which it was produced.

And by academic background, I studied American art history and specialized in 19th century American.

My first major job after school, after college, I was a contemporary curator, so very quickly made a shift.

And also because of an interest in decorative arts, which had long existed, I was also the museum's curator of craft.

- Wow.

- So none of that answers your question, which is how does this feel?

- But it is important.

It's very important to set up where are today.

- Right, it's bizarre because my entire life has been this job in so many ways.

And as a director of a museum, it's a 24/7 job, it's kind of your identity.

So I'm actually looking with great fear and trepidation at no longer having an identity once I retire.

- Hmm.

You mean that?

- I do actually.

- Really?

- I do.

I'm looking forward to it.

I'm tired, I want a break.

I've said that for a few months.

I want to do nothing.

And I wonder how long that will last because I've never really done nothing since I was pretty young.

But I do worry that if people ask me about myself, like it's like, I don't know what to say.

I can say, well, I'm a retired museum person, I guess.

- You are synonymous with the Crocker Art Museum.

- Well, I mean, the museum's been around for a hundred and, nearly 140 years, and I've only had 25 of that.

So I'm really just a small part of it.

But I am associated with what most people know today of the Crocker.

- Yes, in the 25 years that you have been here with the Crocker Art Museum, you have catapulted the Crocker into the stratosphere.

And I'm telling you what, the people that we spoke with said this could not have happened under anyone else but you.

- I have some pretty good colleagues around the country.

I have to think that there would be others that could do it, but I do think I was the right person at the right time.

- The expansion, you took the Crocker Art Museum and the form that you found it and found a new future and foundation for it.

Walk us through what it looked like when you got to the Crocker to today.

- When I arrived at the Crocker end of 1999, the museum, it was much loved by many people.

But it was rather more abundant.

It didn't have a tremendous amount of visitation, had very little programming, exhibitions didn't change very much.

Permanent collection was pretty stagnant and didn't change very often, stagnant in what was added was very little.

And I came to the Crocker and said, "What I'd like to do is make the museum matter to the community."

And to me, that is the job.

we change lives at the museum.

We do it through and with art.

But it really is about making this community stronger and about making individual lives better.

It's not about building a building.

And I've often said the building, which is a very visible transformation of the Crocker, the building is simply a tool to be able to better serve the community and fulfill our mission.

It's a beautiful tool.

We did a good job with the building.

I think the architect, Charles Gwathmey was very masterful in how he knitted a contemporary structure to a Victorian piece without overpowering it.

We added 125,000 square feet to the museum.

So it wasn't a small expansion, but it was a desperately needed one.

We had no program space, we had no freight elevator.

We had a very small entry area where you'd try to bring groups and school groups or adult groups.

We had no food service.

It was one deficiency after another, basically.

And so what we tried to do was design a building that would basically improve operational efficiencies and improve the visitor experience.

And I think that we succeeded pretty well.

There are things that, compromises we made, things that maybe are not everybody's cup of tea, but everything was done with a particular purpose in mind.

- I hear so many things in what you just said.

You talked about the new building, the new portion of the Crocker, the addition, the new Crocker being the tool.

And I have to tell you, first of all, the original structure might have been a place that you went to once or twice.

But the new Crocker is always changing.

It is always evolving.

There's always something new.

It is not a one-stop shop.

It is a one-stop shop always changing.

You go there and it is consistently different.

And that's the tool of the new structure, is that it is constantly changing.

- Right?

Yes and no.

I would say that that's a philosophy of museum practice.

It's not a building.

It's the fact that I want the museum experience to be different every time a person comes in.

- And it is.

- Yeah, right.

And I want the museum experience to be different depending on which route they take.

So if two people come to the building and they go different ways, they're going to have different experiences 'cause they're going to encounter different works of art in a sequence some people may never see some things that are on view.

I mean, we have 90,000 square feet of gallery space.

We are not a small museum.

I think that equates in the most recent statistical survey for North American Art Museum at about 36th largest gallery space in North America.

So there's always a lot to see.

Our galleries are pretty densely hung, so there's a lot of work.

We have doubled the collection, actually we've nearly tripled the collection in the 25 years I've been here with acquisitions and additions of different areas of the collecting.

And we want that work to be seen.

We wanna honor the fact that people have entrusted us with great gems for the public benefit.

Public doesn't get much benefit of something that sits in a store room.

So we are constantly changing our galleries and what's hanging - It is such a service, Lial.

When I think of the Crocker Art Museum, I think of service.

I really, really do.

I feel like it serves this community.

And it serves, if utilized by the community well, every person in this community.

That's a fact.

- Yeah.

- Diversity inclusion all across the board.

- It has been since I've arrived.

It's always been important to me to see myself in a museum.

And I always have assumed it's important to others to see themselves in a museum.

So we have added to the collection.

We've provided a diversity of programming, exciting programming, scholarly programming, fun programming.

I mean, we have events that are fueled by alcohol, events that are fueled by pure scholarship.

They're all happening all of the time because we want everybody to find what will speak to them within our programming offerings, within our exhibitions and our gallery hangings.

I cannot predict what is going to change someone's life, but I believe very fully, because I've been fortunate enough to have my life changed and fortunate enough to hear about experiences others have had that have been transformative, I believe that if people come into the museum and give themselves the opportunity to be transported by works of art, they will be at the Crocker.

They will find that work of art that absolutely speaks to them and changes their life.

- That, I can report to you as a journalist, is a fact.

I have been to the Crocker well over a hundred times.

Much more than a hundred times.

I can't even count.

To me it's therapy.

I've been there for public reasons and for private reasons.

I've been there with strangers and with my closest confidants, my mother.

And I can tell you that when you see a classroom come through from, and in fact I will use an example that I was told from Leataata Floyd Elementary School, not far from your location.

- Right.

- I would say less than a mile and a half, two miles max.

That students that I talked to had never left their block, Lial, until they came to the Crocker for a class field trip.

And they saw themselves on the walls of the Crocker.

You cannot put that impact on a child's life into words, but you see it in their eyes and they were forever changed.

I saw it with my own eyes.

You've seen that day in and day out.

- I have.

And it's a wonderful thing.

That's part of the joy of working in a museum, no matter what you do, and it's like many professions.

But you get that feedback of visitors and that aha moment happening over and over again.

Some of my favorite experiences, every child that comes to the museum, or every child that is involved in a museum program in their school classroom gets a pass to bring their family back to the Crocker free of charge.

And some of my favorite moments are seeing kids that have been on a tour of the museum, come back with their parents and give them a tour of the artwork that they've seen.

And you can just, you know, you can, the kids are so proud of themselves, but the parents just are absolutely thrilled.

I think maybe not as much as the museum staff, but still it's a pretty wonderful thing to have happen.

- What are some stories that you have experienced that will stay with you forever?

- So many.

I think of art as magic.

If you allow yourself to enter a work of art, figuratively enter a work of art, you can be transported to a different time, a different place, a different circumstance so easily.

You can learn how to have greater empathy for everyone around you because you have put yourself in another place.

That's a wonderful skill to have.

Empathy is something we absolutely need as a society.

We've become rather fractured and divided, I would say.

And part of that is because we're not necessarily thinking about what other people have experienced and what they do experience.

So I think that most of the experiences I think of, and I'm having a hard time coming up with a specific one for you, Rob, because there have been so many.

But when you can go someplace that you've never been able to go corporately, just go in your mind, it's kind of like reading a great book, you know?

It's very similar type of experience.

You're elsewhere.

I think an artwork is actually a great way to do it because you can have in a museum a variety of experiences in a short period of time.

You can do a trip around the world with a single visit.

And it's not very often that we can do that as individuals and have that great variety.

We can move through your mind with great ease.

I recently broke my thumb.

I can picture what it's like to make a glorious meal and have the hands of both hands with no problem just by standing in front of a work of art and putting myself in the place of the figure that is creating something magnificent.

I have seen people and talked with people who reconnect with lost loved ones.

And they're just right there back with them because the work of art moves them to a place where they've had experiences again with people that they have lost.

I mean, that's pretty magical.

It's pretty amazing that that happens.

I also love the fact that one of the things that we want to do at this institution is be engaging and help people connect with others, not just connecting with the art, but connecting with other people and other ideas and to open their frame of reference and be more accepting of many different things.

But that connecting with other people, whether it's because you're both looking at the same work of art and you start to talk about it, or you're both attending the same program and you've had an opportunity to be with another person in a conversation that you've probably never met before, but you find common ground.

That's something that's pretty special in today's world where many of us suffer from loneliness.

I am one of those people that read Robert Putnam's book "Bowling Alone" when it first came out in the 70s, or in the 80s rather, and have thought very often about the fact that it's true.

Our society doesn't have the same kind of social connection it used to have.

And that is one of the problems I think that's facing all of us.

We're isolated, and if we can use museums and other institutions to bring us together and to have great experiences with fellow man, it's good for all of us.

- Your legacy is living, your living legacy.

What does it mean to you and what do you want it to be when people think of you and your leadership at the Crocker?

- I'd like them to think that I made a difference, but maybe most importantly, I'd like them to know that I've left the museum in a place where the next person can go and take it to even greater heights.

To me, that's truly a worthwhile legacy.

You've set things up so they can just continue to get better and better over time.

- What do you think the future holds?

- Well, I think a new person's gonna come in and do things that I couldn't do.

And one of the goals, well, how do I say this?

There's a lot of strategy behind what we do and when we do it and why we do it, right?

And I made a strategic decision at the Crocker when I came, that we wanted to serve this community very deeply.

We wanted to make the museum matter.

We want people's lives to be changed.

We wanted Sacramento to be better because the Crocker was important.

We also set a strategy that we wanted the museum to be nationally important, internationally renowned.

- You did it.

(chuckles) - Well, yes.

We have, to a certain extent, but we're Crocker's still not as well known as it should be.

So I think that the next director will make it even better known on the world stage.

- I have to say that if you've not experienced, your California landscape collection is, in my opinion, the greatest.

And I think I've seen this documented, it's the greatest in the world.

- We have the most California art on view of any place in the world, and it's a pretty amazing collection from statehood to the present day.

I mean, that's really where it focuses, but the 19th century is a particular strong point.

Judge Crocker collected 19th century California art.

He commissioned a lot of artists.

And while he was only alive for a short period of time, we, the Crocker, has the only 19th century collection of California art assembled in the 19th century, and we've just expanded it.

So that's pretty special.

Nowhere else can you see that.

- Lial, what has the Crocker taught you?

- A lot.

I would say that, I'm not sure totally taught at the Crocker, but museums have taught me that the more you give, the more you get.

The more programming you do, the more you try to think about what will touch people, the more people that actually come in and are touched and changed, and the more satisfaction you get from that, because that's your life work.

I mean, it is work about the public good.

It is work about relationships.

And knowing that you've changed lives is pretty special.

- You've become very close friends with a lot of the artists whose hats have been hung on saying, "Hey, I have a piece at the Crocker."

That's a big deal here to say that.

And you've become dear friends with some that we've lost, some that are no longer living in the flesh, but that their art is alive and thriving.

I think of Wayne Thiebaud your friendship with Mr. Thiebaud and you have pieces there of his that no one else has.

- Right.

- And by the way, if you have not been recently, there are new pieces there that have come into your acquisition.

I know you miss a lot of these artists.

Are there any stories you want to share about artists who've left a place on a hand print on your heart?

- Oh, so many.

But I think it's not just the artists, it's also the patrons, the donors, the people that help fuel the museum to make it possible for everybody to take part.

The artists and those donors have left a tremendous legacy at the museum.

And I think that, you think about that, and I think about it at this time in my life, especially, that legacy is very important because you live on even after you're no longer here.

Your work is on view, you know that you've helped acquire a certain piece that will impact lives forever.

You've helped build a building that is a tool, as we've said, that allows new audiences to be engaged and changed and nurtured.

You have created something that's great for the public, that's pretty special.

And you talk about Wayne Thiebaud, I mean, he left an amazing legacy.

I mean, he is was one of the great artists in the world.

I mean, he lived to be a hundred years old.

He changed lives through his teaching, through his exhibits, through his artwork, and he will continue to do that over time.

I think about, I go back to when I was, before I started working at the Crocker, and Wayne Thiebaud was an important artist.

He was an artist that I was pretty sure lived in San Francisco 'cause that's what I always read.

And when I came to Sacramento and realized that he was actually here, I thought about the fact that, isn't that interesting?

Because you go to galleries and you'll see San Francisco area artists or Bay Area artists, 90% of them have been in Sacramento or Davis.

They're not just San Francisco.

And yet that's a story that hasn't yet really been fully understood by the world.

And so there's something that is a goal for somebody else, to really get this region better known artistically because it should be.

It's got a phenomenal legacy and history.

- What would you like to say to the people of this region, the people who are watching?

What would you like to say?

- Come to the Crocker, enjoy it.

Spend time, come repeatedly.

Open your mind and allow yourself to be changed.

- And personally, what must be shared from you?

Take this time to say whatever you want.

- Well, I think just that it's been a labor of love, and I'm looking forward to it continuing to thrive well past my leadership.

- That's the sign of a fantastic leader, one of the signs, is you have set that place up to shine.

- That's the goal.

- Well, you've done it.

Lial Jones, I treasure you so much.

You are a masterpiece.

And I continue to look forward to seeing the new collections in your life.

And I can't wait to follow your next chapters with exuberant joy.

You are a gift to this region and this country and you have helped put the Crocker on the national stage, and this region is truly grateful to you.

I know I certainly am.

- Thank you, Rob.

I appreciate your friendship and everything you have done as well.

- Go have fun.

- Thank you.

(Rob laughs) (upbeat music) Thanks for joining us.

You can watch when you want at robontheroad.org.

(energetic music) - [Announcer] Murphy Austin Adams Schoenfeld LLP, focusing on business law and commercial litigation, is proud to support "Rob on the Road: Region Rising."

More information available at murphyaustin.com.