ANNOUNCER: TONIGHT ON SHOWCASE WITH BARBARA KELLAR CINCINNATI PHOTOGRAPHER ROBERT FLISCHEL.

STAY TUNED.

SHOWCASE STARTS RIGHT NOW.

[MUSIC] KELLAR: HI, I'M BARBARA KELLAR.

WELCOME TO SHOWCASE.

TODAY'S GUEST IS PROBABLY FAMILIAR TO A LOT OF OUR VIEWERS.

ROBERT FLISCHEL, PHOTOGRAPHER EXTRAORDINAIRE, HERE TO TALK TO US ABOUT HIS LATEST PROJECT, HIS HISTORY, HIS HOPES, HIS DREAMS FOR WORLD PEACE, WHATEVER HE THINKS ABOUT, WE'RE HAPPY TO HEAR.

BOB, WE'RE GLAD TO HAVE YOU HERE TODAY.

HOW ARE YOU DOING?

FLISCHEL: GREAT.

THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

THIS...

I HAD, YOU KNOW, I HAD MENTIONED TO YOU A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO OR MAYBE THREE WEEKS AGO WHAT I WAS INTERESTED IN AND YOU ASKED, BE MORE SPECIFIC.

AND I SAID, WELL, MAYBE YOU COULD INTERVIEW ME.

AND YOU SAID, WE'LL TRY THAT.

SO, THANK YOU.

KELLAR: YOU'RE WELCOME.

YOU'RE WELCOME.

BUT TELL US WHY YOU... WHAT YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT.

FLISCHEL: WELL, I HAVE THREE BOOKS THAT I'VE BEEN WORKING ON FOR THREE OR MORE YEARS AS AN EDITOR, AND THEY WILL ALL BE COMING OUT THIS FALL.

AND I'M EXCITED TO REACH THAT END PART OF THE PROCESS, WHICH IS A VERY LONG PROCESS.

KELLAR: WELL, TELL US ABOUT HOW THAT PROCESS WORKS.

THREE YEARS AGO, YOU THOUGHT OF THREE DIFFERENT BOOKS?

FLISCHEL: NO, THE FIRST BOOK THE THOUGHT OCCURRED TO ME IN 2016.

AND IT'S A BOOK ABOUT POVERTY IN THIS REGION FROM 1900 TO 2024.

AND I FELT AS A FORMER SOCIAL WORKER, I HAD FELT THAT THE IDEA HAD NOT BEEN UNDERSTOOD AS CLEARLY AS IT COULD BE BY THE GENERAL POPULATION.

SO I THOUGHT, WELL, MAYBE I WILL DO A COMPREHENSIVE DESCRIPTION USING PHOTOGRAPHY.

WE HAVE 35 PHOTOGRAPHERS INVOLVED IN THE PROJECT.

KELLAR: WOW.

FLISCHEL: YEAH.

AND WE WOULD DO A MICROCOSM.

THINK OF RED'S COUNTRY, SOUTH OF COLUMBUS OVER TO WEST VIRGINIA, KENTUCKY AND SOUTHERN INDIANA AND SHOW ALL THE PARTS OF THE POVERTY ISSUE.

AND SO THAT HAS TAKEN SEVEN YEARS.

KELLAR: WOW.

FLISCHEL: BUT IT'S GOING TO BE... AND I WANT IT TO BE AN ILLUSTRATED ALMANAC OF WHAT IT MEANS THE WHOLE TOTAL COMPREHENSIVE UNDERSTANDING OF POVERTY, NOT JUST SOME SUPERFICIAL DESCRIPTION.

I WANT IT TO BE THOROUGH.

KELLAR: SOMETIMES THE PHOTOGRAPHS TELL THE STORY.

THERE'S THE FAMOUS PHOTOGRAPH THAT WAS TAKEN DURING THE GREAT DEPRESSION, AND IT WAS OUT WEST SOMEWHERE OF THE WOMAN WAS JUST... FLISCHEL: DOROTHEA LANGE.

YEAH, THE MIGRANT MOTHER.

YOU KNOW, THERE'S AN INTERESTING STORY ABOUT THAT.

THERE WAS A THUMB IN THAT PICTURE THAT SHE DIDN'T LIKE, AND ALL HER BOSSES SAID, "WE DON'T RETOUCH, WE DON'T DO ANY MANIPULATIONS."

SHE SAYS, "YOU'RE GOING TO DO IT."

SO SHE GOT AWAY WITH IT BECAUSE SHE WAS A FORCE.

BUT SHE DID HAVE SOMEBODY GO IN AND ARTWORK THAT THUMB.

KELLAR: YEAH.

FLISCHEL: THE PICTURE.

KELLAR: OH, WHEN I SEE THAT PICTURE AGAIN, I'LL... FLISCHEL: THINK ABOUT THAT.

KELLAR: THINK ABOUT THE THUMB.

SO, AS YOU SAY, YOU KNOW, WE'VE ALL SEEN LOTS AND LOTS OF PICTURES OF POVERTY, BUT YOU GOT ALL THOSE PHOTOGRAPHERS TOGETHER AND EACH ONE CONTRIBUTED.

TELL US HOW THAT WORKED.

FLISCHEL: WELL, I HAD TO DO A LOT OF WAITING AND A LOT OF REQUESTS FOR, LIKE, EDWARD WESTON CAME THROUGH CINCINNATI IN THE 1940S ON A GUGGENHEIM FELLOWSHIP.

HE TOOK A PICTURE OF OVER-THE-RHINE THAT SHOWS POPULATION DENSITY BETTER THAN ANY BOOK COULD DESCRIBE POPULATION DENSITY.

AND SO THAT'S AN EXAMPLE OF AN OLDER PHOTOGRAPHER.

KELLAR: DID YOU ASK THESE PHOTOGRAPHERS TO GO OUT AND SHOOT PICTURES OR CONTRIBUTE PICTURES THAT THEY HAD TAKEN OVER THE YEARS?

FLISCHEL: THERE'S 15 REGIONAL PHOTOGRAPHERS, TEN OF WHICH ARE STILL PRACTICING, THAT HAVE CONTRIBUTED TO THIS BOOK.

AND TWO, AMANDA COWDREY AND HELEN ADAMS WERE GIVEN GRANTS.

WE GOT GRANTS FOR THEM TO UPDATE CURRENT POVERTY ISSUES.

KELLAR: SO IS THE BOOK COMPLETE NOW?

FLISCHEL: IT'S ON ITS WAY TO... KELLAR: THE PUBLISHER?

FLISCHEL: TO THE PRINTER.

NO, I'M THE PUBLISHER.

KELLAR: OH.

YOU'RE THE PUBLISHER.

SORRY.

FLISCHEL: IT'S ON THE WAY TO THE PRINTER JUNE 15TH.

SO, IT'LL BE BACK IN THE FALL.

KELLAR: IN THE FALL.

AND WHERE WILL THAT BE AVAILABLE?

JOSEPH BETH?

THE USUAL PLACES?

FLISCHEL: YEAH, THE FIRST THOUSAND COPIES WILL BE GIVEN TO LIBRARIES THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE REGION.

AND THERE'LL BE SOME GIVEN TO PEOPLE THAT WORK IN THE POVERTY INDUSTRY.

IT'S NOT... A BOOK LIKE THIS IS NOT GOING TO BE A, YOU KNOW, A RECORD BREAKER AT JOSEPH BETH.

BUT IT WILL BE WIDELY AVAILABLE.

AND YOU KNOW, IT'LL BE A SIGNIFICANT.

KELLAR: ARE THERE A LOT OF YOUR PICTURES IN THERE?

FLISCHEL: I HAVE SOME, YEAH, I HAVE SOME IMPORTANT PICTURES IN THERE.

KELLAR: ARE THEY ONES THAT YOU'VE TAKEN IN THE PAST, OR YOU TOOK JUST FOR THE BOOK?

FLISCHEL: YEAH, IN FACT?

YEAH, THERE WILL BE.

KELLAR: DO YOU FEEL THAT IT WAS... DO YOU THINK IT'LL MAKE A DIFFERENCE WITH ANYBODY?

FLISCHEL: IF IT MAKES A DIFFERENCE WITH ONE PERSON, IT'S MADE A DIFFERENCE.

THAT'S HOW IT IS.

I MEAN, FOR ME, IN MY CAREER, THERE HAVE BEEN VARIOUS PEOPLE OVER THE YEARS.

ONE, DANNY RANSOHOFF, WHO GOT ME MY FIRST JOB IN 1977 WITH THE ASSOCIATION FOR THE BLIND AS A JUNIOR SOCIAL WORKER.

HE LOOKED AT ME WHEN I SAID, "CAN YOU HELP ME, DANNY?"

AND HE GOES, "WELL, YOU GOT TWO STRIKES AGAINST YOU."

AND I SAID, "WHAT ARE THOSE?"

HE SAYS, "WELL, YOU'RE A SOCIAL WORKER AND YOU'RE A PHOTOGRAPHER," WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT HE WAS.

BUT HE SAID, "I WILL PLUG YOU IN SOMEWHERE."

SO THAT WAS AN IMPORTANT... AND DANNY HAS A LOT OF PICTURES IN THIS BOOK.

KELLAR: IS DANNY STILL ALIVE?

FLISCHEL: NO.

DANNY IS DEAD.

KELLAR: I THOUGHT HE PASSED AWAY.

YEAH, BUT HE WAS CERTAINLY A PROMINENT CINCINNATIAN.

FLISCHEL: YES.

KELLAR: YEAH.

YOU MENTIONED HE GOT YOU STARTED.

WE DON'T... WE'LL DIGRESS FOR A SECOND.

YOU MENTIONED SOMETHING ABOUT YOU GOT YOUR FIRST JOB.

FLISCHEL: WELL, NO, MY PUBLISHING CAREER WAS STARTED BECAUSE OF WCET.

KELLAR: OKAY.

FLISCHEL: I WAS A PHOTOJOURNALIST AND EDITOR WITH OHIO MAGAZINE FOR 15 YEARS, FROM '81 TO '90, THE 90S.

KELLAR: YEAH.

FLISCHEL: AND I MEAN, I WAS DOING A LOT OF TRAVELING, AND I WAS BURNT OUT, REALLY.

AND I WAS HOME, FELL ASLEEP ON THE COUCH.

AND I WOKE UP ABOUT 9:30 AND ON THE TV WAS KEN BURNS, THE CIVIL WAR.

I WAS SO MESMERIZED I COULD NOT TAKE MY EYES OFF OF IT.

AND I THOUGHT, IF HE CAN TAKE 140 YEAR OLD BLACK AND WHITE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT ARE FADED, DUSTY, SCRATCHED AND DO THIS, THEN I SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO SOMETHING IMPORTANT TOO.

AND SO THAT LED TO MY FIRST BOOK ON THE ARCHITECTURE, ART AND ARCHITECTURE OF CINCINNATI PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

KELLAR: I WANTED TO ASK YOU ABOUT THAT LATER.

DO YOU WANT TO TELL US ABOUT THE OTHER TWO BOOKS FIRST, AND THEN WE'LL GO BACK TO THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS?

FLISCHEL: THE SECOND BOOK THAT'S COMING OUT IS I WAS DOING A PROJECT AT THE ZOO WITH THANE MAYNARD.

AND I KEPT SEEING THESE PICTURES.

AND I THOUGHT, "WOW, THIS IS...

THIS IS SOME BEAUTIFUL PHOTOGRAPHY."

AND I ASK HIM ABOUT THAT.

HE SAYS, "OH, THOSE ARE THE ZOO VOLUNTEERS."

AND I FOUND OUT THAT THEY STARTED A VOLUNTEER PHOTOGRAPHY GROUP IN 2008.

AND THERE WERE SEVEN OF THESE PHOTOGRAPHERS WHO HAD REGULAR DAY JOBS.

THEY COULD BE CAMERA OPERATORS OR LANDLORDS OR REAL ESTATE AGENTS.

BUT THEIR PASSION WAS DOCUMENTING THE COLLECTION AT THE CINCINNATI ZOO.

AND SO I LOOKED, I MET WITH THEM ALL AND I SAID, "THIS SHOULD BE A BOOK."

SO, WE ARE EDITING A BOOK OF THEIR BEST PHOTOGRAPHS OVER THE LAST 15 YEARS.

YOU'VE GOT TO REMEMBER, THEY GO DOWN THERE AND WORK EVERY WEEK.

AND SOME OF THEM ARE FROM DAYTON AND OUTLYING AREAS.

THEY HAVE A COMMITMENT THAT IS, YOU CAN'T... YOU CANNOT DUPLICATE.

KELLAR: YEAH.

YOU CAN'T PAY PEOPLE.

FLISCHEL: FOR SURE.

AND IT WILL BE A BEAUTIFUL BOOK.

SO THE NEXT ONE HAS BEEN A LONG TERM PROJECT.

I'M ON THE BOARD OF THE ART LEAGUE OF CINCINNATI.

KELLAR: THAT'S WHAT WE WANT TO TALK ABOUT.

FLISCHEL: AND OUR MISSION IS TO DOCUMENT, RESTORE, ENHANCE AND PRESERVE THE ART AND ARCHITECTURE OF THESE HISTORIC BUILDINGS.

SO, THE KIDS STARTED COLLECTING PENNIES FOR PAINTINGS IN 1903, AND OVER THE YEARS THEY AMASSED A COLLECTION.

KELLAR: THIS IS CINCINNATI PUBLIC SCHOOLS?

FLISCHEL: YES.

AND THE COLLECTION IS NOW BEING STEWARDED BY THE ART MUSEUM, AND IT'S IN STORAGE.

I'VE WORKED WITH CAROL KIRAN, WHO'S AN ART HISTORIAN, AND CARL SAMPSON, WHO YOU KNOW VERY WELL.

KELLAR: VERY WELL.

FLISCHEL: AND THEY HAVE WRITTEN THE STORY OF THESE PAINTINGS.

AND WE ARE GOING TO SHOWCASE THE ARTISTS AND THE PAINTINGS IN A BOOK THAT WILL BE OUT THIS FALL.

IT'S GOING TO BE A BEAUTY.

KELLAR: ARE ANY OF THOSE SCHOOLS STILL REMAINING?

FLISCHEL: YEAH, A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER.

KELLAR: ARE STILL IN?

FLISCHEL: YES.

AND MANY OF THE SCHOOLS HAVE BEEN PRESERVED BECAUSE THEY WERE BUILT AS TEMPLES OF LEARNING.

KELLAR: YEAH.

FLISCHEL: AND THE CITY FATHERS AND VARIOUS GROUPS, LIKE THE PRESERVATION ASSOCIATION, HAVE ALL COMMITTED THEMSELVES TO.

KELLAR: SO THESE ARE ALL PAINTINGS THAT WERE BOUGHT BY THE KIDS THAT WERE, I GUESS, THE REASON YOU WANTED TO TAKE THEM OUT OF THE SCHOOLS IS THEY'RE SAFE SO THAT THEY... FLISCHEL: WELL, WHAT YOU DON'T WANT A $6 MILLION PAINTING HANGING IN A HALLWAY.

KELLAR: NO.

YOU CAN'T HAVE THAT, NO.

FLISCHEL: I MEAN, IT'S JUST UNREALISTIC.

SO PART OF THIS PROJECT, WE ARE GOING TO DO HIGH RES IMAGES OF THE PAINTINGS, AND WE'RE GOING TO MAKE GICÉE PRINTS AND REINSTALL THEM IN ALL THE SCHOOLS.

KELLAR: OH, WOW.

I DIDN'T REALIZE YOU WERE DOING THAT.

FLISCHEL: OH, THERE'S MULTIPLE LAYERS TO THIS.

KELLAR: WOW.

THAT'S FANTASTIC.

FLISCHEL: MULTIPLE LAYERS.

IT WILL BE A LOT OF FUN.

KELLAR: AND WHERE... WILL THOSE BE EXHIBITED AT THE ART MUSEUM EVENTUALLY?

FLISCHEL: THEY USE THE PAINTINGS NOW.

THEY ROTATE THEM IN AND OUT OF STORAGE.

SO.

KELLAR: OH, THEY'RE ON DISPLAY SOME.

FLISCHEL: YEAH, SOME OF THEM ARE ON DISPLAY AND THEY ROTATE THEM.

SOME NEED RESTORATION AND WE'RE WORKING ON THAT.

BUT THEY HAVEN'T BEEN SEEN FOR 50 YEARS.

AND WE'RE GOING TO BRING THEM OUT.

WE'RE GOING TO SHARE THEM WITH THE COMMUNITY.

KELLAR: ARE THESE PAINTINGS LIKE DIXIE SELDEN?

FLISCHEL: YES.

DIXIE, THE WESSELS.

KELLAR: YEAH.

FLISCHEL: FRANCIS FAGG.

ALL OF THEM.

KELLAR: ALL THOSE TERRIFIC.

FLISCHEL: THE PAINTERS FROM THE GOLDEN ERA OF CINCINNATI.

KELLAR: YEAH.

FLISCHEL: YOU GOT ME THE BOOK.

I MEAN, YOU GAVE ME THE BOOK ON CINCINNATI'S GOLDEN ERA.

KELLAR: YEAH, YEAH.

AND TELL OUR AUDIENCE A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE MURALS THAT ARE NOW AT THE PUBLIC LIBRARY.

THEY WERE FROM SPRINGER SCHOOL, I THINK.

FLISCHEL: OH, NO, NO, NO, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE GROUP OF MURALS THAT GOT THE ART LEAGUE STARTED.

KELLAR: OKAY.

FLISCHEL: FROM CONDON ELEMENTARY.

THEY WERE BY WILLIAM MACDONALD.

THEY WERE DONE IN THE '20S AND THEY WERE IN THE FOYER OF THE OLD CONDON SCHOOL.

UNFORTUNATELY, IT'S BEEN RAZED AND THEY DIDN'T KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH THOSE MURALS.

AND SO I TOLD A LITTLE FIB AT ONE OF THEIR BIG MEETINGS.

I SAID, WELL... KELLAR: A FIB FOR A GOOD CAUSE.

FLISCHEL: IT WAS A VERY GOOD TOM SAWYER FIB.

KELLAR: YES.

RIGHT.

OKAY.

FLISCHEL: IT WAS A TOM SAWYER FIB.

I SAID, "LISTEN, YOU MAY NOT KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH THIS, THESE MURALS, BUT I HAVE AN INDIVIDUAL WHO WILL PUT UP THE MONEY TO REMOVE, RESTORE AND REINSTALL THESE PAINTINGS AS LONG AS THEY REMAIN IN THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS."

THAT WAS THE CATCH BECAUSE I DIDN'T WANT THEM... KELLAR: OH, YEAH.

FLISCHEL: YEAH.

AND SO THEY SAID, "WELL, THEN IF YOU WANT TO DO THAT, GO AHEAD AND DO IT."

AND SO I DID.

I IMMEDIATELY CALLED MARSHA LINDNER AND I SAID... KELLAR: YOU HAD A PERSON.

FLISCHEL: "MARSHA, CAN YOU HELP OUT HERE?"

AND SHE SAID, "YES, I WILL SPEARHEAD, I WILL KICK IN SOME DOUGH AND I WILL SPEARHEAD THE FUNDRAISING."

SO WE HAD THE TAFT MUSEUM, THE ART MUSEUM, AND THE INDIANAPOLIS MUSEUM OF ART ALL COME TOGETHER TO HELP IN THE PROCESS.

SO, THEY NOW ARE BACK AT THE NEW ROSELAWN CONDON SCHOOL.

KELLAR: THEY ARE?

I THOUGHT THEY WERE AT THE LIBRARY.

FLISCHEL: THEY WERE JUST TEMPORARILY THERE FOR AN EXHIBIT.

BUT THEY'RE... WE WANTED THEM BACK IN THE ORIGINAL SCHOOLS.

KELLAR: OH, OKAY.

THEY WERE CHARACTERS FROM CHILDREN'S BOOKS.

FLISCHEL: HANSEL AND GRETEL AND JACK AND THE BEANSTALK, CINDERELLA.

KELLAR: YEAH, FABULOUS.

OH, MY GOODNESS.

THE THIRD BOOK IS THE ZOO.

FLISCHEL: THE ZOO.

KELLAR: NO, THAT'S THE SECOND.

YOU SAID THE ZOO.

FLISCHEL: THE SECOND.

THE THIRD ONE IS THE ART.

KELLAR: THE ART LEAGUE.

FLISCHEL: YES.

KELLAR: THAT'S YOUR GROUP.

IT'S CALLED THE ART LEAGUE?

FLISCHEL: YES.

KELLAR: TELL THEM ABOUT THAT.

MAYBE SOMEBODY WOULD WANT TO JOIN.

FLISCHEL: YES.

WE, THE ART LEAGUE WAS FOUNDED IN 1903 BY A GROUP OF SENIOR GIRLS AT HUGHES HIGH SCHOOL.

AND THEY THOUGHT THEIR ENVIRONMENT WAS SO DREARY THAT THEY SAID, "WE'VE GOT TO GET TOGETHER AND LIVEN UP THIS DREARY ENVIRONMENT."

SO THEY GOT A TEACHER TO BE AN ADVISER, MR. TEAL.

AND THEN THEY SAID, "WELL, EACH CHILD, EACH STUDENT WILL CONTRIBUTE $0.03 A MONTH."

AND THEN SOON IT WAS IN ALL THE SCHOOLS.

AND AVERAGE THEN THEY KICKED IT UP TO A NICKEL.

AND SO, THEY WOULD BRING IN PAINTINGS AT THE END OF THE YEAR FROM LOCAL ARTISTS, AND THE KIDS WOULD VOTE ON WHICH ONE THAT THEIR 2 OR $300 WOULD PAY FOR.

OVER THE YEARS, THEY AMASSED QUITE A COLLECTION.

AND SO WHEN I WAS DOCUMENTING THE BUILDINGS, I FOUND OUT ABOUT THIS ART LEAGUE.

AND I THOUGHT, "WELL, WE SHOULD GET A GROUP TOGETHER AND START IT UP AGAIN."

SO WE FORMED A NONPROFIT IN 1995, AND WE'VE BEEN GOING STRONG EVER SINCE.

KELLAR: TELL US ABOUT THE FOUNTAINS.

FLISCHEL: WELL, THERE'S 50 VERY RARE FOUNTAINS, MOST OF WHICH ARE ROOKWOOD, SOME OF WHICH ARE FROM CALIFORNIA AND VARIOUS PLACES IN THE US.

THEY'RE ALL IN BEAUTIFUL CONDITION, AND THEY'RE ALL IN MY FIRST BOOK ON THE ART AND ARCHITECTURE OF CINCINNATI PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

KELLAR: AND THERE ARE TWO FOUNTAINS AT THE ART MUSEUM THAT ARE SPECTACULAR.

FLISCHEL: OH, THEY GOT THAT OUT OF THE OLD BOWLING ALLEY, GOT THAT ONE OUT OF THE OLD BOWLING ALLEY.

KELLAR: THAT'S WHAT I HEARD, IT CAME FROM A BOWLING ALLEY.

FLISCHEL: COVERED WITH MOSS AND... YEAH.

ANITA ELLIS, WHO WAS THE CURATOR FOR ORNAMENTATION, SHE DID A PHENOMENAL JOB RESTORING A LOT OF THOSE AND SAVING A LOT OF THINGS.

KELLAR: I KNOW THE CINCINNATI WOMAN'S CLUB.

FLISCHEL: THEY HAVE A BARNHORN THERE.

KELLAR: YEAH.

FLISCHEL: THE DOLPHIN AND BOY, YEAH, IT'S A BEAUTIFUL.

KELLAR: THEY DONATED THAT.

BUT THE ART LEAGUE IS INTERESTED IN ANY PART OF THE ARCHITECTURE THAT'S WORTH SAVING.

IS THAT RIGHT?

FLISCHEL: THE ORNAMENT, WHICH INVOLVES STAINED GLASS WINDOWS, FOUNTAINS, MURALS, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS.

KELLAR: NOW, WHAT WOULD YOU DO WITH THE STAINED GLASS WINDOWS?

FLISCHEL: WE'VE HAD WINDOWS COMPLETELY RESTORED.

ALUMNI HAVE PITCHED IN, AND, YOU KNOW, AT HUGHES HIGH SCHOOL, ALL THE LIBRARY WINDOWS WERE BEAUTIFUL STAINED GLASS WINDOWS FROM NEW YORK.

AND THEY WERE ALL RESTORED, SO WE'LL DO ALMOST ANYTHING.

KELLAR: YEAH.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ALL THESE PRO BONO THINGS THAT YOU'RE DOING AND WHAT DO YOU DO?

YOU HAVE TO DO SOMETHING BESIDES PRO BONO.

FLISCHEL: WELL, I MEAN, I DO INDEPENDENT PUBLISHING PROJECTS.

KELLAR: YEAH.

LIKE WHAT?

AND.

FLISCHEL: WELL, I, YOU KNOW, ONE IS A TOP SECRET.

I CAN'T EVEN TALK ABOUT IT OR THEY'D...

THEY'D SEND THE AUTHORITIES AFTER ME.

KELLAR: BUT THEY WON'T...

THEY WON'T GET ME, THOUGH, WILL THEY?

FLISCHEL: YOU ARE SAFE.

YOU'RE PROBABLY A MEMBER.

IN FACT, I'VE BEEN DOWN AND SEEN YOU AT "THE CLUB."

BUT ANYWAY, WE WON'T GO THERE.

BUT I'M WORKING NOW WITH JOHN BASQUE AND AT ORANGE FRAZER PRESS ON A PROJECT ABOUT WILMINGTON, OHIO.

WE WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT THAT.

AND HE IS INSTRUMENTAL IN MY PUBLISHING CAREER BECAUSE HE WAS MY BOSS AT OHIO MAGAZINE IN THE EARLY '80S.

AND AFTER 15 YEARS OF WORKING WITH JOHN, YOU BETTER KNOW HOW TO TELL A STORY.

AND SO THAT'S WHAT I SEE AS THE CRITICAL PART OF MY MISSION, THE ABILITY TO TELL A STORY WITH PICTURES.

KELLAR: YEAH.

HOW MANY BOOKS OF YOUR OWN HAVE YOU PUBLISHED?

YOUR OWN, JUST YOUR OWN WORK?

FLISCHEL: MAYBE A DOZEN, BUT I'VE WORKED ON PROBABLY 35 AS EITHER A SIGNIFICANT CONTRIBUTOR OR AN EDITOR.

KELLAR: YEAH.

AND THESE ARE MOSTLY COFFEE TABLE BOOKS?

FLISCHEL: YES, YES.

AND IT'S THE CREATIVE PROCESS, IT EVOLVES.

AND THAT'S WHY I DON'T LIKE TO TURN A BOOK AROUND QUICKLY.

BECAUSE AS YOU GO THROUGH THE PROCESS, MORE IS REVEALED.

MY HOBBY IS HISTORICAL RESEARCH.

AND SO, YEAH, I PICKED THAT UP FROM MY EARLY DAYS READING NANCY DREW MYSTERY STORIES THAT MY SISTERS WOULD LEAVE LAYING AROUND.

WELL TO ME ARCHITECTURE...

I MEAN, HISTORICAL RESEARCH IS NOTHING BUT DETECTIVE WORK.

KELLAR: RIGHT.

FLISCHEL: ONE POINT TILL THE THREADS YOU CAN GET THEM TOGETHER, AND THEN SOME AMAZING THINGS ARE REVEALED.

SO THAT'S WHAT... KELLAR: THAT'S WHY PBS HAS A SHOW CALLED HISTORY DETECTIVES.

FLISCHEL: OH, YEAH.

IT'S PHENOMENAL.

KELLAR: YEAH.

IT IS.

FLISCHEL: YEAH.

IT'S ALL CONNECTED AND A LOT OF IT'S BURIED.

WHICH BRINGS ME TO THE MAIN PART OF PHOTOGRAPHY.

IF YOU'RE IN PHOTOGRAPHY LONG ENOUGH, YOU GET A GIFT.

IT'S CALLED PRE-VISUALIZED IMAGERY.

AND THAT MEANS THAT YOU CAN LOOK AT SOMETHING AND THEN YOU CAN SEE ALL THE LEVELS, THE DEPTH, ALL THE LEVELS, AND YOU CAN SEE IT IN YOUR HEAD.

AND THEN THE EXECUTION IS SOMETHING YOU CAN DO, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU START HITTING IT, YOU KNOW, PHOTOGRAPHICALLY.

BUT WHEN YOU GET THAT SENSE OF PRE-VISUALIZING A PHOTOGRAPH, THEN THAT'S THE REWARD FOR PRACTICE.

BECAUSE IT'S LIKE A PIANO PLAYER, IF WE DON'T PRACTICE, WE DON'T HAVE THAT EXTRA EDGE AND THAT'S ALL YOU'RE GOING TO GET BECAUSE THERE'S SO MANY GREAT PHOTOGRAPHS BEING MADE EVERY DAY.

SO THAT'S KIND OF HOW THAT WORKS.

KELLAR: AND IF YOU COULD GUESS, HOW MANY PHOTOGRAPHS DO YOU THINK YOU TAKE IN ORDER TO GET ONE?

FLISCHEL: WELL, I WOULD SAY THAT, LIKE, I HAVE A MEETING TOMORROW.

AND THERE ARE 18 PHOTOGRAPHS IN THIS ONE CHAPTER.

AND TO GET THOSE 18, I'VE PROBABLY TAKEN 2 OR 300 TO NARROW IT DOWN TO THAT.

SO YOU TAKE A LOT, BUT THE CRITICAL PART OF THAT IS EDITING.

I MEAN, IT'S I LOVE BEING DECENT WITH A CAMERA, BUT I LOVE BEING A GOOD PHOTO EDITOR MORE.

KELLAR: WELL, I THINK THAT'S THE SECRET TO A LOT OF, NOT JUST PHOTOGRAPHY, BUT TELEVISION AND MOVIES, THE EDITOR, IT'S ALL ABOUT THE EDITING.

YEAH, ANYBODY CAN POINT A CAMERA SOMETIME, BUT IT'S THE EDITING.

DO YOU THINK IT'S POSSIBLE TO TEACH PHOTOGRAPHY?

FLISCHEL: OH, YEAH.

KELLAR: YOU DO?

FLISCHEL: OH, YEAH.

KELLAR: OKAY.

FLISCHEL: YEAH.

IF I...

I'VE HAD STUDENTS OVER THE YEARS AND A LOT OF MY ASSISTANTS HAVE QUIETLY BEEN LEARNING FROM ME.

KELLAR: YOU'VE HAD ASSISTANTS?

FLISCHEL: I HAD MANY ASSISTANTS.

KELLAR: I NEVER KNEW THAT.

FLISCHEL: OH, YEAH.

AND NOW IN THESE DAYS IT'S PRETTY LEAN OUT THERE.

SO YOU DON'T HAVE A BIG STAFF.

BUT MY ASSISTANTS WERE INVALUABLE.

KELLAR: OKAY.

FLISCHEL: ONE OF THEM TOLD ME ONE TIME, "BOB, TURN AROUND THE PICTURE'S OVER THERE."

AND I SAID, "NEVER INTERRUPT ME WHEN I'M TAKING A PICTURE."

AND THEN I TURNED AROUND AND THERE WAS THE PICTURE.

I THOUGHT, "THIS IS DYNAMITE.

THANK YOU."

KELLAR: YEAH.

THANK YOU.

FLISCHEL: "ERIC, KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT FROM NOW ON."

BUT NO, I... KELLAR: YEAH, BUT YOU DO TEACH?

FLISCHEL: THE STUDENTS ALWAYS BECOME THE TEACHER.

KELLAR: YEAH, BUT WHERE?

FLISCHEL: I TAUGHT AT NORTHERN KENTUCKY UNIVERSITY.

KELLAR: OH, YOU DID.

OKAY.

FLISCHEL: AND AT UC.

KELLAR: OH, OKAY.

FLISCHEL: AND THEN PRIVATE.

LIKE, I'M TEACHING RETIRED DOCTORS NOW.

KELLAR: REALLY?

OH, YEAH.

BECAUSE THEY WANT A HOBBY?

FLISCHEL: YEAH.

THEY WANT TO BE BETTER.

THEY WANT TO RULE IN THE PHOTOGRAPHIC WORLD IN THEIR RETIREMENT.

SO I TELL THEM THE BEST.

I MAKE THEM WORK THROUGH THE PROCESS, AND I ELIMINATE A LOT OF THE DISTRACTIVE PARTS OF PHOTOGRAPHY AND GO FOR WHAT'S IMPORTANT.

KELLAR: DO YOU THINK IT'S A GOOD THING OR NOT THAT EVERYBODY'S A PHOTOGRAPHER NOW?

FLISCHEL: EVERYBODY SHOULD BE A PHOTOGRAPHER.

KELLAR: OKAY.

FLISCHEL: THE WHOLE FIELD WAS A GIFT FROM EASTMAN KODAK.

THAT WAS THEIR ORIGINAL UNDERSTANDING OF THE CAMERAS, EVERYONE SHOULD BE A PHOTOGRAPHER.

SO, I MEAN, I LOOK AT WHAT THE KIDS ARE DOING NOW AND I THINK, "HOW CAN... HOW ARE THEY DOING THAT?"

BECAUSE I'M KIND OF OLD SCHOOL.

I WAS TAUGHT BY KAZIK PAZOVSKI IN MOUNT ADAMS IN THE OLD ROOKWOOD BUILDING IN THE '70S.

AND IT WAS A REVELATION.

I MEAN, I FAILED THE ENTRANCE EXAM.

HE TOOK MY EXAM, HE WENT BACK AND GRADED IT, AND HE CAME BACK AND SAID, "YOU GOT 42%.

YOU A REAL DUMMY.

I TAKE YOU ANYWAY."

AND SO I THOUGHT, "OH, MY GOD, I MADE IT."

SO I STUDIED WITH HIM FOR THREE YEARS.

AND IT WAS LIKE BEING TRANSPORTED TO THE MOST PROFOUND ENVIRONMENT FOR AN ARTIST THAT YOU COULD EVER EXPERIENCE, BECAUSE IT WAS AN OLD EUROPEAN STUDIO IN THE BASEMENT OF THE ROOKWOOD BUILDING.

AND HE WAS A FAMOUS EUROPEAN PHOTOGRAPHER WHO WAS RECRUITED HERE BY THE ROSENTHALS TO RUN FARM QUARTERLY, WHICH WAS THE BIG, BIG AGRICULTURAL MAGAZINE IN THE US.

KELLAR: YEAH.

WAS THAT DICK ROSENTHAL FAMILIES?

YEAH.

FLISCHEL: YES, THEY WERE...

THEY BROUGHT HIM IN.

HE WAS HE WAS IMPRISONED BY THE RUSSIANS.

THEN HE WAS IMPRISONED BY THE GERMANS.

AND THEN HE WAS RELEASED BY THE AMERICANS AND SENT TO ENGLAND, WHERE HE BECAME IN THE NEXT YEAR THE TOP PHOTOGRAPHER IN ENGLAND.

AND THEN THE ROSENTHAL SAID, "WE GOT TO GET HIM OVER HERE."

KELLAR: GOOD FOR THEM.

FLISCHEL: AND HE HAD ILL HEALTH, SO HE TAUGHT FOR 40 YEARS.

KELLAR: OH, MY GOODNESS.

FLISCHEL: HE TAUGHT OWEN FINDSEN.

KELLAR: OH, MY GOODNESS.

FLISCHEL: YEAH.

KELLAR: THIS IS REALLY INTERESTING.

YOU'VE TAUGHT ME SO MUCH.

I THOUGHT I KNEW EVERYTHING YOU KNOW, BUT I DON'T SO, YOU MADE THAT VERY CLEAR.

FLISCHEL: WELL, IT'S BEEN SO MUCH FUN.

AND BETWEEN YOU AND ANNE AND JACK, IT'S JUST... HOW CAN YOU BECOME MORE RELAXED AND READY TO SHARE, YOU KNOW, MY STORY.

I APPRECIATE IT.

KELLAR: YEAH.

WELL, YOU'VE GOT A GREAT STORY, A VERY INTERESTING ONE.

AND I HOPE YOU'LL COME BACK SOMETIME.

FLISCHEL: YES.

KELLAR: MAYBE WHEN THESE BOOKS COME OUT.

FLISCHEL: YEAH.

WE'LL HAVE A WILD FALL, THAT'S FOR SURE.

KELLAR: THANK YOU, THANK YOU.

FLISCHEL: YOU'RE WELCOME.

ANNOUNCER: JOIN US NEXT WEEK FOR ANOTHER EPISODE OF SHOWCASE WITH BARBARA KELLAR RIGHT HERE ON CET.

CAPTIONS: MAVERICK CAPTIONING CIN OH MAVERICKCAPTIONING.COM