From WXXI news this is connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Our connection this hour was made on Zillow's market heat index.

Here's the latest.

If you're buying a home, the top three markets in the country to be a buyer.

Number three.

Miami, Florida.

Number two McAllen, Texas.

Number one Cape Coral, Florida.

Lots of homes available.

Big inventories.

If you are a buyer, the three worst home markets, I should say to be seeking to purchase a house.

Number three, San Francisco.

Number two, San Jose.

Number one Rochester, New York.

Number one for sellers.

Number 1 million or so for buyers.

The Rochester Business Journal says there's no end in sight to Rochester being a seller's market and a headache for buyers.

The spring influx of inventory hasn't arrived.

Inventory remains historically low.

Six more weeks of Rochester housing winter, I don't know, maybe six more years of it.

And now we will see how the new administration's policies affect the housing market.

Seeing that money says that the bond market reaction to tariffs could lead to higher mortgage rates, although the intense volatility makes any thing hard to predict.

And here's what Newsweek says about the effect of tariffs on new home construction.

Quote, construction prices have surged for the third straight month, according to an Associated Builders and Contractors analysis of U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics data reflecting the early impact of sweeping tariffs.

The tariffs will affect the price of key materials used in homebuilding and have the potential to discourage new development and, quote.

This hour, we check in with people working every day with the local market, the local inventory, buyers and sellers.

We'll take your questions and comments as well.

If you want to join the conversation, I want to know if you're looking for a home or if you're putting it off, or if you're selling and loving the idea of selling, as long as you already have somewhere else to go.

I mean, it's tough for buyers, it's great for sellers.

And let's talk about that with our guest this hour.

Mark Southwick is a broker and owner of Deletion Homes by Mark Southwick and Associates.

Welcome back to the program.

Thank you very much, Bud.

across the table is Lainey Bittner associate real estate broker with Remax plus.

Welcome back to you.

Thank you very much.

And welcome back to the program to Angie Flack Brown, real estate salesperson and CEO of Angie Flack Brown Realty Group, Inc. That's part of Keller Williams Realty.

Welcome back to you as well.

Tough times.

Angie.

I mean, I guess it depends, right?

It does depend.

I'm you know, I'm my team.

I do most of the listings.

I work with the sellers.

So I'm not having this.

I'm not having as rough of the time as my my partner James, who's working with the buyers, although I did have a buyer this last couple of months and, it was emotionally taxing to say the least.

I mean, aren't most sellers also buying?

I mean, maybe not all of them.

You know, if you're if you're in good shape there, we're have it.

We're having the conversations around the Fords death, divorce, debt and downsizing.

So most of my listings, they're going to Florida, they're going to a nursing home.

Perhaps they've passed away.

They're getting a divorce.

And they didn't.

They're not buying.

You know, nobody who nobody wants to buy or sell right now.

Nobody wants to sell the people who are involved in the market are the people who have to have to.

They have to.

There's just no.

Yeah, I want to buy the right house down the street, which was the case for so many years.

Decades, it seems.

Yep.

Agreed.

Okay.

well, what do you see in Lanny?

How is how is it out there?

Yeah.

I mean, yeah, it's the same thing.

It's rough.

I do see people that are buying, it's a little bit more.

I know it's a lot different than it used to be.

Where you could.

You could wait.

You could list your house, and then you'd go find something and buy it.

Now, if you're buying and selling, you have to buy first.

You have to find something because you could take forever to find something that you want to buy.

So my clients that are buying and selling and staying locally, they they need to buy first to find what they want to, to win an offer.

And then and then they're comfortable.

The fact that when they list it the most likely sell pretty quickly.

You know, I've, contingent offers are a thing of the past.

Just tell me.

Tell me more about that.

Well, it used to be that you would you would, you know, look for a house and say to the to the seller of the house, hey, I want to buy your house, but I got to sell my house first and they'd say, okay, can't do that anymore because there's so many buyers competing and there's people out there willing to pay cash and close in 30 days.

Why would a seller contingencies?

No inspections.

Just get it.

I mean, I don't know if I completely agree.

That's I think I think that's loosened up a little bit.

I think we have changed in the way that I think a few years ago, right after Covid and I think the years that I was here, speaking a little bit more on behalf of the board when I was president, I think that was you definitely could not.

But I think now things I think things aren't going as crazy.

I think to me, what I'm seeing is like a lot of one level livings are still insane under certain price is still insane things that are still really updated.

Those are the things that are just going gangbusters.

But if you get a little bit further outside of Rochester Motor County, you might be able to find something that, because I have heard about people getting contingent offers, things that maybe some things are sitting a little bit not real long, but maybe sitting a little bit, and you might have good luck.

I mean, I just had clients who were of, VA buyers, which has been traditionally been challenging lately, and they needed some sellers concessions.

And we got a house.

It was it.

Yeah.

It was.

I mean, we were it was rough.

But they hung in there.

We hung in there and they were pretty aggressive about going after things that maybe had been sitting for a little bit.

So there are pockets of that, but it's you really have to be patient and you really have to figure it out.

I was watching this video that Mark put out recently, just trying in a minute to explain the heat index.

And, you know, we don't have to know what the numbers mean to look at the the index and go, oh my goodness.

As an example, every city in the country Cleveland, Ohio and Cincinnati, Ohio and Los Angeles, they're all given a number on the Zillow heat index mark.

And the average I think is 70.

You said in the video of the average.

Yeah.

So for I forget what that means.

Just know that the average housing market in terms of inventory is a better for buyers or sellers.

The equilibrium is 70.

Yep.

You're in the top ten.

If you're around 8086, I think.

Yep.

And Rochester has been as high as 169 I saw 146 today.

So you know oh okay.

So things are getting better right.

Like I said yeah.

Yeah.

I mean what's crazy about that is that we're at 169 149, whatever the number might be, when you drop down to Cleveland and some of these others and you suddenly have to drop down 40 points, another 40 points, and then when you get to like 86, I think it is every other community in the United States has a market that is, a seller's market, I believe.

I buy a buyer's market.

Yeah.

Buyers.

That's incredible.

I mean, so number one and and that just by a little but by by quantum leaps, it really is insane.

And it really it, underscores the fact that you go back to March of 2017, 2500 homes available for sale in the six county region.

Today, in the six county region, there were about 335.

And then when you take into consideration that about 200 of them are located in the Crescent here in Monroe County, meaning, that neighborhood in a neighborhood that is distressed that, you know, those properties just sit forever.

That means that there's nothing available.

Let me go back to those numbers in case I screwed those up.

In the six county region, there's about 660 properties available for sale.

335 of those are in Monroe County.

So.

Okay.

Yeah.

I mean, in and again, these these list just week after week after week.

Zillow was putting out a different list.

And we're always in the top five of these lists in terms of, the number of properties, that are available for sale or the lack of property that's available for sale, the decrease in the number of properties over the course of the past five years, the number of properties that are starting with bidding wars, how many properties it's, over asking price as a result of bidding wars, just week after week after week.

It's another metric in which we are prevailing and to the point that you all make about people who are in the market right now, because they have to be.

There is one side of my brain that's gone.

How come everybody's not saying it's a seller's market?

It's great.

There's there's not a lot of inventory.

But the problem is we're getting if that was by choice, where are they going to go.

Right.

So then they would have to become buyers as well.

And you haven't really solved anything there.

So but listeners, if you've got questions, comments I do want to hear from you.

I've got a few already, but I'll take as much as we can this hour for our guests.

And it is 844295 talk.

If you want to call the program toll free.

84429582552636.

If you're calling from Rochester 2639994, email the program connections@xxii.org.

Join us in the chat on our YouTube page at Sky news.

Tim says everything seems overpriced.

Are any neighborhoods or towns underpriced?

Okay, everyone, anywhere that you think is under it?

No, nothing.

Nothing.

The same people who were saying five years ago, I'm not going to buy that property.

It's overpriced.

It's overpriced.

They've lost out on a 62 to 65% increase in the value of property over the course of the past five years.

It's not overpriced.

And that's going to continue because the latest studies show that we are 18,000 units shy.

Can't continue forever.

Right.

So let's assume that today, all these governments, these town boards, etc., etc.

are going to start approving, these the subdivisions are going to be built.

Everybody laughed in this room because that's not happening.

I mean, that's that's what has to happen is we need we need we need to see an increase in inventory.

We need to see building building happening.

And it's not it's not happening.

We need the towns need to be a little bit more loose with their zoning.

and, and a lot of them have really resisted that.

So and it's, you know, is this a Nimby issue?

Yes it is.

I've spoken to the town as I've spoken to the builders, one after another after another.

It you get 8 or 10 people who showing up at a town board or a planning board meeting saying, no, no, no, I don't want, I don't want this built, I don't want this built.

And but the builders are saying they've got a list of 200 or some people who would buy in that subdivision.

And so that's a lot of it is NIMBYism.

But also to your point, lady, I mean, a lot of it also is, the problems of the obstruction.

I mean, it cost 35,000 to 55,000, maybe $60,000 just to get a site ready, right, to put a house on top of that site and then you couple on top of that.

Go ahead.

Angie, I was just going to say one of my issues right now is we have a ton of land.

Let's just use Monroe County, okay?

Let's use let's use, I don't know, Hilton as an example.

Okay.

House is sitting on an acre of land.

The seller or the owner may say, hey, I want to subdivide this and I want to build a house next door for my aging parents, not allowed.

You know, we put an addition on our house a few years ago in Brighton because my mother in law had to live with us, and it was difficult to get the size that we wanted because the every town has restrictions, every town has rules.

My prayer is that every town will start to say, hey, we're going to loosen up some of these things.

We can put an auxiliary housing unit on, you know, a half an acre, because that is going to start to grease the machines so that we have people moving and people can sell and people can buy.

But right now it's we're landlocked everywhere.

And we just talked to some of the board members in the town of Pittsford who had, I heard that, made some amendments to what they're doing.

Do you urge people, no matter where they live, to talk to their local government about this?

Well, they only care if they're in if they're trying to buy something.

And so and then by the time it looks like a crisis and then it's too late.

Right.

So I actually, I'm, I'm a national federal political coordinator through the National Association of Realtors.

I'm going down to DC to talk to people on Capitol Hill and May about trying to get some national pressure for to some of the local municipalities to allow comment for some of this, because most people it's like, oh, it's a great idea, but not in my backyard.

That's exactly that's exactly right.

I mean, the state tried to do that a few years ago.

The governor tried to do that, and there was a big uproar about allowing ADUs and in people's backyards.

And it's again and Adu is accessory dwelling unit.

Sorry.

Yes.

Yep.

Sorry.

Accessory dwelling unit.

And it's to get those because again to Angie's point is you know again you have you know maybe millennials that are moving back home are now you know the younger generation that's moving back home or older parents that want to age in the same lots as family.

And so building in Adu in the backyard could help with some of that.

But people just kind of go crazy about what's allowed in that.

Who's going to am I going to rent it out?

Who's going to rent it, that sort of thing.

What happens when my my mother dies?

Am I going to be allowed to rent it?

Is it going to sit there empty?

Yeah.

And when people hear about new rentals in towns, that's when they get mad.

We don't want any more rentals yet.

People need places to live.

Yeah.

And to Mark's point about just new builds, let's set aside ADUs.

Just new builds in general.

But building house now it is expensive.

Yep.

And when I look at from what I'm seeing in the data about construction prices, materials, etc., it doesn't look to me like that's going to get better anytime soon.

No, I mean, most you layer on top of a long standing difficulty problem that we've had, and then you layer on top of that tariffs and the incredible increase in the price of lumber and other things that are coming from Canada.

who's responsible for so much steel, exactly?

I mean, you're looking at, you know, 20, 30% increase in the value, and the cost of those items alone.

so it's not going to get easier any time soon.

but you take let's just take a 1500 square foot house.

Very, very 250 bucks per square foot, if you're lucky to find that.

Right.

20, 50 bucks, that's $375,000 just in construction costs.

You put on top of that a lot that's going to cost you $50,000.

You're looking at $425,000 for a 1700, a 1500 square foot house.

That's that's a lot of money.

And so until governments come, until government comes together along and we need we need the federal government, we need the state government, we need the county, and we need municipal governments to come together.

And then, probably more likely than not, we're going to need some kind of assistance from let's, let's say ESL.

You know, they they've got, what, 300,000, $300 million that they can dole out to actually help, say, minority individuals or those who have it, particularly because the real need I think we would all affordable housing is support.

Yes, exactly.

But then I know and my apologies, that's all housing in the minds of so many is let's call it, a first time buyers housing.

you know, I think that's more palatable.

you know, it's affordable is a really kind of.

It's a word that means a lot of different things.

That's what it has certain kind of.

Well, and I think and I think in terms of certain price points, as I said earlier, that's one of the that's one of the areas that I still see going crazy where having multiple offers is anything that's considered affordable in our area.

Really.

I would say there's probably anything under like 250, right?

200, which is for some other people that sound affordable, right?

But that you see a lot of people looking in that price point.

And I know a few weeks ago you had on Jim Jaco and some other folks from the Housing Commission working on some of the things that that Mark was just talking about, trying to figure out, trying to bring groups of people together from a local government, from a chamber perspective, all those things to really try and figure out how to tackle this because it can't be siloed, it can't be just one group of people that are trying to do it.

And we took that initiative on.

We started an initiative when I was president, the real estate board, a few years back, because we realize it's it's a big, huge issue that you need to bring multiple people together, different politicians, local, state, federal, everything to try and figure out how to tackle this problem locally because it's not going away.

The inventory is continuing to be just decline or years over years and creating the seller's market, that's that's just difficult.

I just want to go back to the question that was posed to you a few moments ago.

You know, somebody saying, you know, everything is overpriced.

Yeah.

You didn't.

I'll tell me where the secret underpriced.

There's there's no secret.

It's.

But but let's go back to the notion that we are shy.

18,000 units here in Monroe County alone.

Okay, let's say that we build a 1000 units, which would be a lot next year.

Do you think we're going to build a thousand units next year?

We're where?

Yeah.

Lady.

No.

No.

So but let's say theoretically we're going to build a thousand units next year.

It's going to be 18 years before we even get to that would be 6% of the need.

Yeah.

Exact.

So this is just going to go on for quite a while to come.

And so I in a blog that I just wrote recently and people did not push back, I thought that people were going to push back.

I said, you need to, quote unquote, overpay.

You need to get your foot in the door because you want to, at the age of 65 or 70, own a house free and clear.

And so let's let's say that you overpay by $25,000 to $50,000.

Well, if property values continue to increase in the way that they are, you're you're going to you're going to be perfectly fine within 2 or 3 years, tops.

But what do you when you say overpay?

Like what do you I mean, are you saying nobody's paying over, right.

Because people aren't overpaying because.

Yeah, because overpaying implies it that the buyers the market is driving these prices.

Right.

That's why there's no secret place that's underpriced.

Right?

It's the the it's again, basic economy.

Like there's there's a lot of demand and not nearly enough supply as, as Mark has been saying stating with some numbers.

So there's nowhere that's a secret place to go.

You have to there are pockets, as I said, like I mean, there are certain houses, if you see something sitting on the market for a little bit longer than past the delayed negotiations, there may be opportunities there.

So you really have to be very specific about what you're doing.

in terms of if in that competitive situation, a competitive competitive situation is something that is difficult for you to compete against based on price, based on, you know, the type of financing that you may have to get.

Then you need to be very specific about what you're doing.

Andrew, I would just like to sort of circle back to that question.

So what I'm finding and my soapbox right now is, is senior housing.

Part of the reason we have the problem we're having is that seniors are staying in their homes longer.

They're living longer.

They're not doing the downsizing.

They're not moving to Florida.

But now they have nowhere to go.

There's not enough senior housing.

So they're staying there.

And if we could get some more senior housing built and get those people moved, that would be great.

So when they sell their houses, though, and I'm seeing this with all my listings, they're very dated.

They're 1960s, 1970s, 1980s.

So that's the group of houses that are not terribly overpriced.

They're still overpriced.

But if you can find something that needs a lot of work, you're going to find a little bit better of a deal.

I think, at least giving me a look.

I'm sorry, because I think it depends on where you are, because certain markets, I mean, again, those those clients, I just told you that.

But they were in an area that was affordable and they were going into some things that were very dated and, you know, estates that hadn't been updated or had some trouble with them.

And the investors were swooping in.

That's true.

So depending on where it is and what the price point is, is you're now competing against investors who have unlimited cash and who can come in and can who can do those fixes.

So really, again, there are you kind of have to find those little pockets and you have to really pay attention to what's going on in the market in each listing based on what you're what your clients are looking for.

Let me take some some feedback from listeners as you're hearing Lanny Bitner, associate real estate broker with Remax, plus, Angie Flack Brown with the Angie Flack Brown Realty Group, part of Keller Williams Realty.

Mark Southwick, broker and owner of Elysian Homes by Mark Southwick and Associates.

It's 844295 talk.

If you want to call us and talk about this.

Are you looking for a house?

Are you amazed?

Like like I was recently with what?

A house four doors down sold for.

And you go like, whoa 8442958255263 WXXI if you're in Rochester.

2639994 again, email the program connections at talk.

Okay.

Long note from James talking about his mom and his mom was thinking about downsizing or buying a house, but then lost 20% of for four for one K in about a week and decided I'm staying where I am.

And, you know, I mean, how common is the are you hearing possible buyers who are a little bit spooked by the markets?

Right.

Is that affecting your work market?

We're not at the moment.

We're anticipating that the longer the tariff tariff chaos is perpetuated, the more, the more likely it seems.

You know, every pundit, every economist, everybody who's out there saying that inflation is assumed to rise and growth is going to start to diminish.

so so we're anticipating that, within the next 3 to 6 months, we're going to start to see more and more of that, kind of thing taking place.

let me go around the table and ask the same question again.

This is from James here.

What are you seeing in this way, Lanny?

So James says his mom decided I'm staying put after seeing the market volatility.

I think, you know, honestly, I think in the past five years, I think that's a lot of what people are doing.

I think now it's we're at a point where it's got worse.

Based on the fact that the market volatility has been extreme over the past few weeks.

But I think that's where we've been since Covid, where if people I mean, again, his if his mom's probably unfortunate where she doesn't have to move, she doesn't have to downsize.

That's part of where we are with the market.

Right.

Unless people have to move, unless there's a reason where she can't live on her own and she needs to, or she needs to get to one level living right as you are seeing that.

And so people that have those options and are not willing to take that risk now, that's what we're seeing.

So I do I think it's it's been a problem.

I think it is going to continue to be a problem, especially again with this market volatility, especially at the higher price points, where people just feel that I think are more in the market, in the stock market.

And so they feel that affects more.

Okay, Angie.

So I think that on a micro level per person, there are those things happening.

But on a macro level, there are, you know, 30 people lined up virtually outside of every house to step in where somebody might.

So if we leave, if we lose half of our buyer pool, right, we're still going to be selling houses like crazy because there's such a huge backlog.

So I think I don't particularly see that we're going to suddenly go lower or crash or any of that, because when I have a listing and there's 72 showings and I get 25 offers, that tells me there's 24 people that are going to come back next week.

Right?

I mean, it's hard to tell people who are looking to buy a first home, whether you're in your 20s, 30s, whatever your age is that it didn't always it wasn't always like, right.

But everybody at this table can remember a time when you didn't have to go 50 K, 100 K over asking.

You didn't have to waive inspection.

You didn't feel like if I don't decide the next hour, I've got no chance whether we're going to be 25 offers after 72 people see something in a week.

I mean, like, it wasn't always like this, right?

Never.

I mean, it feel like I like this for what I call it, the old days.

Whenever I meet with a new client and I say, listen, I'm going to talk to you about the old days, and I'm going to talk to you about now.

You're so ancient, and I know what the old days was, what, 2018 and before?

Yeah, right.

So now it's been roughly a decade.

Seven years.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No, I think I think I think we start seeing that I think at least ten years we've been in the seller's market.

But still I mean it's got to remember I know.

Yeah.

Like it wasn't right 50 years ago.

No.

But it's starting to feel like it's pretty cemented.

And for all the reasons our guests have been explaining, there's not a reason to expect the market to change dramatically.

Better for buyers anytime soon.

So on that note, here's, Dan who says Evan Wood creating a situation where the only way for towns to get more tax revenue is to build more homes, be a solution to get more housing.

And I love Dan.

How would this be done?

Yeah.

So Dan two thing I'm going to let our guests jump in on what they think.

But I would say two things about this, Dan, just in terms of recent political history, Governor Hochul did have a housing proposal that she wanted.

Every municipality, no matter your size, rural, urban, whatever, to increase housing stock by at least 1%.

And there were all kinds of carrot and stick tax incentives attached to this and the blowback that the whole administration got.

And I bet you this is was this 5 or 7 years ago, it was huge for a lot of towns.

There were some NIMBYism, a lot of towns said, either we can't do it, we don't have space for it, we don't want to do it.

And it was politically sort of dead in the water.

I wonder if that would change now, or I wonder if a federal I mean, Angie's going to go to Washington, change everything.

So what are you going to ask them to do?

Now we got a real problem here.

No, no, no, we really we really do need more federal funding around some of, you know, some of the first of all, incentives for building.

I mean, that question that he just asked is is great.

Do I think it's going to help?

I mean, everything gets stuck in red tape for five years.

but these conversations have to start.

They really do.

And, you know, let's not even skip over the fact that it's a trickle down.

Like, what's our homeless population like?

Like the people that used to want to rent a $600 a month apartment now can't get into it because that's a $900 apartment.

And it just, you know, it just it's it's it's really scaring me.

And I think that's important to, to to point out that it's it's not just homebuying.

Right.

It is.

We are seeing that in the rental and the rental market that it is.

And that's why you're seeing the things that are getting built are actually apartments, because it is more feasible for developers to build an apartment because there's more units.

And so the return on investment is significantly better.

If they're rent again, they're hanging on to it and they're seeing that cash flow, you know, versus building something and then selling it.

So I think it's it's not just the stuff that's for sale, even though that's primarily where the three of us work.

But you're seeing it everywhere.

That housing is just it's become significantly less affordable in our area.

One of the things I would love to see how many vacant buildings exist in downtown Rochester.

Nobody.

And of course, you can't convert every single building in downtown Rochester into residential.

It is.

It is difficult, I get that, but until the mayor and I'm just throwing it right out there until the mayor does something about violence.

I mean, yeah, driving down here, the trash on the streets.

Disgusting.

And until you incentivize people or create an environment in which people are feeling safe and they feel as though they're not going to be walking past, a lot of trash on the streets.

We're not going to be able to have the opportunity to get developers to come downtown and start to convert some of these buildings, but that's a real opportunity right there.

I mean, do you think the mayor would say, look, you're cherry picking is one day we're doing a lot of work on those subjects.

Or do you think that's a consistent issue?

I think that this is a consistent issue of of course, the mayor is going to tell me personally that, you know, that it was a bad day.

But no, this is this is just day in and day out for years on end.

I mean, the same properties in downtown Rochester with boarded up windows for five years since Covid.

I mean, come on, do something about it for you.

Saying those neighborhoods deserve better.

The neighborhoods deserve better.

This community deserves better.

perspective home owners, who who are locked out of the ability, yes, developers deserve, but we all deserve better.

And and unfortunately, he's shown no leadership in regard to this issue.

On the safety issue, Mark, I mean, you guys tell me, what's your largest buyer pool right now?

Mine is single women.

Oh, yeah.

Single women, single women, because they're not waiting to get married to buy a house.

I've got they're college educated in a way that men are.

They surpassed men in terms of college education.

They're making more money.

They're the second largest group of.

But they've honestly, I've always that they've always been about for a while.

They've always been a big piece of my bar.

But think about like, you know, what's an affordable place to buy a house?

So like, let's go to the city.

Single women are not going to go live alone in a in a neighborhood that's not safe.

Yeah.

Agreed.

Completely agree.

So there's something that I would not have expected though that's really interesting.

What the single women being the the second largest.

I mean, besides couples, the, the next group, that's significantly more than single men in terms of buying.

Yeah.

On their own.

Interesting.

after we take our only break, we'll come back to your phone calls.

I've got a pile more your emails.

I've got a seller story.

I've got a lot to share with you as we talk about the state of our housing market.

If you are a seller, congratulations.

If you are a buyer, our commiseration.

but we want to hear from you about what you are experiencing in the market.

As our guests are talking about what their clients are seeing, and also some of the dynamics that are causing this to be the number one seller's market in the country by many different metrics.

And it is not even really close.

Lainey Bittner, Angie Flack Brown, Mark C Wick, all here with us and your feedback next.

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This is connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

a couple points from Dallas Dallas.

And there's probably a lot of people who are broke, broke, broke and entertain the idea of selling their house just so they have some money in the bank.

And you what do you think about that point?

I well, I'm seeing a lot.

So Brighton just redid, their assessments and then they kind of canceled it, and now they're starting to talk about it again.

And what I'm seeing is people are saying, look, I bought this house in Brighton 15 years ago.

Now you're telling me it's worth twice what it was?

Now you're telling me my taxes are going to double?

I got to sell my house.

I can't stay here.

Right?

So, yes, taxes may or may not, may or may not, but that's the that's the that's the mentality that is I mean, part of the reason they don't want to get too far off track here, but part of the reason that they had to pull the assessment, about a month and a half ago or something, was because everybody was still up in arms.

I assumed that this is going to be an opportunity for them to just reclaim the narrative and say, okay, yes, your taxes, your tax assessment is going to go up, but it doesn't necessarily mean that your taxes, is going to increase.

As my personal assessment went up to 130,000in my weight, my taxes went down $340.

So there you go.

So that's a narrative that that they should have.

Instead you get everybody in the town of right now but their hair on fire.

But regarding assessments, Henrietta's town supervisor, Steve Schultz, was on this program saying he wants to propose an entirely different way of conducting home assessments.

He says the current system often overvalued.

People feel like, you know, they'll never get that price.

Well, now they feel like they'll get the price, but they can't afford to buy if they have to, he says.

It leads to less market activity.

Do you agree that the assessment system needs to change?

Mark, I think there needs to be some kind of standard, imposed by the state, because, yes, there's too much mystery involved.

I mean, when's the last time that the town of Brighton actually reassessed was, you know, eight years doesn't 18 okay, there we go.

So I thought it was.

Yeah, I'm going to jump right in and say, absolutely, I completely agree with that because I know I went through, the assessment process for myself years ago.

And it's basically like you have to prove yourself innocent instead of the opposite, right?

Like you have to argue with them.

You know, I originally asked the assessor in the town I live in, what are the comparables?

What are you basing this on?

I've shown all the comps that are near me.

They couldn't show me comps.

It's just based on, you know, it's at the time, it seems like based on a certain percentage based algorithm going right.

And it's not it's so I think I think the assessment process is an awful one.

I received 22 requests back, in February.

March.

When?

Up in here.

Yeah.

When Brighton was first being, reassessed.

And so as we're trying to figure out what the actual reassessment should be, we're looking and there were any number of occasions, I hate to say this, we're the town's assessment coincidentally matched Zillow's, value to the property.

That is awful.

I was like, oh, okay.

Yeah, that's not great.

So.

So to your point, should there be a little bit more scrutiny, should there be some changes?

Yeah, I think so.

Okay.

We got a full agreement in the room on that.

Let me get Amanda on the phone and, Rochester.

Hey, Amanda.

Go ahead.

Hey, Ivan.

How's it going?

Pretty good, I guess.

Go ahead.

I was curious.

The gentleman was talking about, how the atmosphere in downtown needs to change in order to, to bring in prospective investors.

And I was wondering how he said it.

It sounded like, he was concerned both about trash and violence.

and now I've seen the trash.

I, I live downtown, I live in the Monroe neighborhood, and I frequent High Falls in Center City.

so I've seen the trash.

But I was wondering about the violence part, because unless he sees those as equals, which would be understandable.

But in his case, maybe, But like last time I walked from High Falls to Monroe.

It's about two miles.

I did it at 1030 at night, and I saw one other person, and it was a woman half my size.

So I'm wondering where the violence is.

Well, I think the violence is probably decreased, because if you're walking two miles and running into one person en route, that's not a lot.

And you're probably younger than I am.

But I remember a time, in the not too distant past, if 20 years ago, I would like to do what I would like to do is challenge you to talk about Rochester as it is now, and also not to accidentally give into tropes about how the inner city is so violent.

Well, we both have our opinion, but in my experience, it isn't okay.

In my church it is very much okay.

Thank you.

Okay, well, there we go.

difference of opinion.

Well, I mean, there is data on this that I don't have at my fingertips.

There is something that Mark is saying about perception.

I think part of what Amanda is doing is challenging the perception to match the reality as Amanda has experienced it.

and that's probably and I appreciate the points Amanda is making.

it's a whole other conversation in which we will probably we'll call City Hall afterwards.

We'll say, there we go.

Mark, see what guest has to call you.

So.

Hey, Blake.

But, but but but again, I do think, you know, she she talks about, you know, walking two miles.

And before she cut me off, I, I was about to say that I distinctly remember a point in time when there was a vibrant downtown Rochester, which I so dearly miss, the ability to walk downtown and just run into a lot of people and be able to go from one restaurant to a club to a different restaurant.

And I'm like, there was those were great times.

And and I do miss those, and I hope that there's some point in time in the future when we might be able to reclaim that.

But I think that's a long way off.

All right.

Amanda.

Thank you.

Let's see here.

Carolyn Brighton is next.

Hey, Carol.

Go ahead.

Yes.

I just wanted to say, as a senior with an outdated house, from the 60s and 70s, that, I had a wonderful experience selling my house with Angie.

within a weekend.

You paid her?

I know.

Right, Peter, to do this, I know it.

No, no, no, I was no, no, I'm kidding, I'm kidding.

I, I do have to give a shout out if for any seniors that, you know, have to work with a realtor.

It was really a fantastic experience.

So I just wanted to say that.

Thank you.

Carol.

She's a great agent.

Of course, I'm always Carol.

I'm just going to like, jump in here and say that the your experience with her as an agent is very much experience that we as agents have with Angie.

She is there are 3600 of us in the six county region.

And she is it like in the top 5 or 10 in terms of those agents who are just beloved by other agents, not saying nice things.

You're supposed to be competing.

yeah.

No, we don't do that anymore.

I support each other at 2800.

Now we're down to like, 20 000, is that right?

Oh, not quite as good.

Yeah.

All right, all right.

Thank you.

Lainie and Mark's clients go ahead and call their, Carol, thank you for that.

Now, let me get an email.

And this comes from Pamela, who says even I'll be selling my old home in the Crescent after our family member completes his move into his new home.

We're planning to use the funds to pay for our child's college education expenses.

So we're going to ask him about $90,000 and see what happens.

We've got about 6 or 7 flippers with interest to buy.

The home needs repairs and renovations, but it's got great bones like hardwood floors, two full bathrooms, a full attic and basement, and more amenities than other homes in the area, such as a driveway, off street, parking in the city with a garage with electricity, and a nice large backyard.

So there going forth, they're going to aim high for the neighborhood, which she says is $90,000.

I don't know exactly the neighborhood, I don't know the comps, but this is probably the right time to shoot high.

If you've got a property, you think you can get there.

Yeah, I think, I think to me pricing is it's is crucial right now.

It's you're seeing where you still need to pull the comparables.

You still need to see what things have sold around you that are similar to your property.

And then you need to have a conversation with your realtor about what the strategy is, because you can't just go in and want to price it really high and see how it goes.

Because honestly, these days buyers are expecting to pay more than list price.

You're also very smart.

The buyers are very educated.

They know every sale on the street, right?

And they're not.

And so I think in terms of pricing at high, I think if you're if you price it above and if your price is too high and a buyer thinks I'm going to have to pay well over list price, that's that can be a negative for you.

So you really have to talk with your agency what the costs are doing, see what the buyers out there doing, and just kind of make sure that it's in the right place to get you the most money.

Anything to add there, Mark?

Andrew.

She knows.

Yeah.

I would only suggest that she probably, the seller probably wants to do everything that she can to make the house look as good as she possibly can so that she's going to attract owner occupants as opposed to investors, because selling to an owner occupant, she's going to garner more money than she would, and she needs to create the bidding war.

so just by selling it off market to an investor, that's not the way to go.

You're leaving money on the table.

You definitely want it to be in as best in the best condition as possible.

Yeah, absolutely.

Pamela.

Good luck to you.

It's connections at six 9.org is the email address sharing your stories about how you dealing with this housing market in our region, which continues to be by many metrics, the number one seller's market in the country.

That means if you're a buyer, good luck.

Inventory is tiny.

It's about a fifth or less of where it was a decade ago at this point.

And that spring influx, it's still tiny.

so let me get back to a couple of points that have come in here.

Charlie says.

Evan, my daughter and her wife were married in 2022.

They saved their money.

I helped them a little and they looked for a house in the height of the housing boom.

They were priced out of Park Avenue and even the Winton area for the houses that they liked.

And more important, they felt safe.

And then they found a house that they loved in Swill Berg, in what she refers to as a neighborhood.

And they they bought it.

She tells me the neighbors all look after each other.

She loves it there.

That's from Charlie.

Never heard the term neighborhood.

Am I just behind the time?

I haven't haven't heard that term.

Have you driven through swill Berg?

Because there's a lot of flags, but it's great.

I mean, it's yeah.

Yeah.

As the gay individual around the table.

Yeah.

It is an old term.

Is it what I didn't yeah.

Neighborhood.

Yeah yeah yeah.

What I think what I love about that story is that they were originally looking in certain areas and then they, and then they expanded beyond that.

So I think that's important for buyers to understand is that the more open you can be about where you want to live, what you're looking for, the better, the better off you're going to be.

So I think the fact that they were originally looking in two different neighborhoods decided they just they couldn't, you know, so they open it up to another neighborhood.

I think that's important to note.

I love the story also, because it's exactly what people are supposed, you know, as we're talking earlier, about just getting your foot in the door, just buying anything so that you can start to build the equity, over time.

And, and so maybe you can't afford Park Avenue today, but it will be a great neighborhood.

It is it is a very affordable neighborhood.

so they've done the right thing.

And congratulations to them.

That sounds like they had a good realtor who was willing to make that jump.

I mean, how many times do I hear from people that say, my realtor sends me houses, you know, automatically, and none of them I can afford?

I mean, you have to have the conversations you have to have somebody with some experience.

You have to have somebody that knows other realtors to get information.

What's coming up.

Yep.

it's just it's a huge leg up interview with three realtors before you choose anybody and let me see Angie Malina.

Yeah.

Okay.

There we go.

There's three in this room.

There we go.

Thomas says we are downtown residents in our 70s, and while there are areas in any town or city that are hotspots for violence, Center City is not one of them.

As for the trash walking for Rochester and downtown Rocks, our organization is helping with that problem.

So that's from Tom.

Yeah.

I mean, I always love seeing people care about their neighborhoods pick up trash.

Those are organizations.

that Tom says, and I think I know, Tom, you got time.

You know, they own a 26 unit building right around the corner from you.

So, I mean, you know, it's not as though I am opposed to downtown Rochester.

I love downtown Rochester.

I have a lot of, a lot of rental units down there.

I just wish that it were more of what it was, so.

And what and what it can be.

You're getting old, Mark.

all right, so, first of all, Ruth says we have pulled census data.

We've looked at the incomes, the housing prices, interest rates, and found that 88,000 households in Monroe County cannot afford to buy.

Right now, their incomes are under $75,000.

That is from ru.

And John says, Evan Jamie Diamond and Jerome Powell both say we're headed for a recession.

Why wouldn't housing prices come down?

Okay, so I'll tell you on that one.

Yeah, sure.

Yeah.

because Jamie Dimon, and Jerome Powell and others and I agree, I definitely agree.

Net net just we're going to see a recession.

We're going to see increased inflation.

We're going to see, unemployment go up and together collectively.

That spells, stagflation.

So so I definitely agree.

But why is it that it's not going to necessarily happen here?

because they're talking about the United States as a whole, as in the macro.

but there are, of course, always going to be pockets of difference that exist elsewhere.

So again, when you go back to the fact that back in 2018, March of 2018, I said this earlier, there were, 2500 or so single family homes in the six county region, and now they're only 600 and some 3500 single family.

It's just an enormous, enormous drop.

And when you look specifically in Monroe County and you know, there only about 135 single family homes available in vibrant, neighborhoods, there's just nothing that's going to go on over the course of the next five years that's going to cause, that dynamic to change.

Lainey and Angie, do you agree that even a recession would not dent where the the prices are in the housing market locally right now?

You want to take it?

You know, you go ahead.

I mean, it may.

And again, no, I'm not an economist.

I could see prices going down a little bit because we might pull some of the buyers out that are causing the competition in the higher prices.

But like I said, we've got 24 people lined up to buy every house, you know, so we have to pull a lot of buyers out.

Well, you have to pull a lot of buyers out.

I mean, we're seeing we're still seeing 10% increase in median sales price, right.

And we're still seeing things go on average 112% over the lowest price.

So we've been seeing for quite a while these numbers where median price has been going up.

In 2017 our median price was 120 525,000.

And now we're at 235.

That's Monroe, Monroe County.

Yep, in Monroe County.

And so there's a significant rate.

So we're one of the most affordable areas in the country, which is part of the reason why we're in where we are is because when you look at the rest of the country, the median sales price is over $400,000, I think closer to 450.

So we're still significantly lower than that, which, you know, drives some people here, which makes more people apt to buy instead of rent.

So there are I don't I don't see I agree with Mark.

I don't see anything really changing.

because I've noticed a difference from a national perspective where you're seeing, you know, the Florida and things like that, where things are on the market a little bit longer and just we're not seeing that.

I will just two real quick things.

Zillow two days ago came up with yet another study.

This study shows that Rochester is going to be the number three community in the nation in terms of price appreciation between March of this past year, in March of 2026.

Yeah, good for us.

But to this individual's point, it's only going to be a 1.8%, increase.

Wow.

One point.

We're still third in the country and we're still third in the country.

So indeed, you know, I guess this goes back to what I was saying earlier about, you know, Jerome Powell and Jamie Diamond talking about the country in the macro.

Right.

but if you think about the fact that, again, we've had a 62 to 65% increase in the value of property here in Monroe County over the course of the past five years, those numbers are starting to come down, but I just don't see them going underwater.

What about this?

People are looking at what's going on right now with the stock market and all these things, and they're saying my house value is going up.

My stock portfolio is going down.

I'm not selling my house.

Right.

There's another reason people aren't selling well being on a pile of money.

But you also see where that also is.

You know maybe an investor who am I.

Stock market like things are dropping.

People are looking to diversify their portfolios and looking at buying into real estate.

And again I think a lot we've seen a ton of investors move into them.

Our market because we are affordable and because again, if they're trying to diversify their portfolios off of the stock market, it's a great way to do it.

And affordable.

Well, one of the things I've been coaching the agents in my brokerage is to reframe this is this is a great offer.

Yes.

It's still very, very difficult for buyers to enter into this market, but it's a great opportunity because you look at the volatility in the stock market, that kind of volatility doesn't happen in real estate.

I mean, you got to go back to 2008 before the Great Recession, before you see any significant reduction in the value of real estate.

But at best it was probably a 4 to 6% decrease during the Great Recession.

So in many ways, we're coaching our buyers that yeah, this might be a scary time, but still, real estate is a safe harbor when compared to so many other investments.

Yep.

here is Ken, who says more than 15 years ago, I wanted to buy the vacant residential lot adjacent to my house in Rochester, but the city refused to sell it.

The city insisted I erect a building of some sort on that lot to increase its value, but I wanted the lot for gardening and landscaping.

Today, the empty lot is still there.

Owned by the city, Rochester lost 15 plus years of property taxes.

My house and lot were in a lower income part of the city, and no one was going to build a $100,000 new house on an empty lot in a neighborhood where the average home was worth 40 to $70,000.

Such shortsighted thinking by the city.

That's from from Ken.

So, yeah, I mean, like, I understand why the city wants people to, you know, build new housing instead of gardens.

But I also understand Ken's point that we need to be a little more judicious where that's happening and realistic there.

So, sorry about that.

Another, listener wants to know, when did the tiny home builders start springing up here?

That's not soon enough.

That's soon enough.

And that's what that's what we talked about earlier with the towns not allowing not allowing tiny, tiny homes on people's lots.

Yeah.

okay.

So you're thinking tiny homes would be as part of an existing lot, like an additional, like an, the 8080 or as an Adu.

Okay.

or maybe it would be really fun to buy two acres and put ten tiny houses on it.

I don't know, community, but can't can't do it because the regulation.

Right.

Okay, okay.

so I guess the answer is that's still pretty tightly controlled.

And depending on where you live, you know, maybe it might be a Nimby issue.

Judy says people need housing, but animals and birds need habitat.

I saw a new housing development in Hilton, and all I saw was habitat loss for all the wildlife that might have thrived there.

That's from Judy.

Yeah.

I mean, yeah, wrong.

Judy.

there's balance that's needed.

But when Mark talks about, what, 18,000 units that we are behind, we're talking about, population, we're talking about housing need and we're talking about what the market has created and, offered.

And so I hear you there, Judy.

I mean, nobody wants to take all of greenspace away, but I think our guests also, earlier this hour said there's some municipalities with a lot of green space and, well, they're looking for a balance.

I well, I do love some municipalities, you know.

Pittsford immediately comes to mind.

You've got 100 acres that you want to build on.

50 of those acres need to be set aside for green.

That's right.

So so I yeah, I do think that, there are some very, very forward thinking municipalities in that regard finding a really good balance.

So as we get ready to wrap here, I'm going to go around the table.

I'll start with Angie.

What would you advise buyers and sellers generally here.

And again I'm not talking about the specific house or etc.

I'm talking about understanding the dynamics in this market right now so that if you are buying or if you are selling, you're going in with a smart approach.

So I always get some advice from somebody that knows what they're talking about.

Talk to, you know, talk to your investment people.

Talk to your financial advisor.

But again, I always recommend to interview three realtors because everyone's going to have a different perspective.

And you want to find someone that really, really understands the area that you're looking and understands the complexities of the market.

Don't just go in blind, don't walk into an open house and just write an offer with whoever's standing at the door, because you know you're looking at a big chunk of money you could lose and or legal things.

Okay, about 45 seconds, Lanny, I think yeah, I agree with I mean, you want to sit down with a realtor and you want to have a because it's all about strategy these days.

It's I don't think every house isn't selling it for every seller.

It's not as as extreme as it used to be.

And so there has to be a strategy in place for getting the most out of your house that you're selling.

And for buyers, same thing.

You have to have a strategy that buyers are.

You've got to figure out what you're gonna do and what you're going to buy, and what the best strategy is for for you.

Mark Quick, my advice to buyers, as I said a few times by just get your foot in the door, you you have to do that in order to ensure your future 2 or 3 years of increase in the value of the property that you purchase will offset whatever it is you feel as though you may have overpaid, originally.

So that that's my strong don't worry about interest rates right now.

Interest rates are fine.

People are like, I'm waiting for them to go down.

If you wait for the interest rate to go down one point, the price is going to be up 50 grand.

Yeah.

Well, and so and based on the bond market, it's it's not a guarantee that those rates are coming down anyway.

No I do not see the bond vigilantes are really I mean we'll talk at some point in time about bond vigilantes.

The fifth we got Congress.

We got the US Supreme Court.

we've got the executive branch.

Then, of course, the fourth is, the press bond vigilantes are now having influence on the direction of US policy in a way that I think is really interesting.

You have piqued my interest.

Okay.

Let's talk.

Come back.

Talk about bond.

Bond vigilantes.

Yeah, yeah.

Okay, Mark.

See, and as I go, I meant to ask this earlier, but I thought this would be insightful.

Just so just real briefly, is the average age of your first time buyers going up?

Yes.

Significantly.

Okay.

No.

Ladies stay in the same.

Okay.

I'll give you the national statistic.

the average age of a first time buyer.

Now, what do you think it is, Evan?

35.

Not that bad.

38.

38.

37.

37.

That was.

Yeah, yeah.

Insane, isn't it?

We used to buy.

I mean, I bought my first property when I was 25, 27?

Yeah.

24.

There you go.

Yeah.

I want to thank you for giving us an update on this totally fascinating housing market that's, you know, good for some really challenging for others.

And thanks for your expertise, Angie Flack Brown.

Good luck in Washington.

Tell us how it goes.

Thank you, thank you, thank you for being here.

Lainey Bittner, great talking to you.

Thank you for being here.

Thanks, Evan.

Mark Southwick, always good.

Thank you very much.

More connections coming up in just a moment.

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