From WXXI news I'm Jasmine Singer and this is Environmental Connections.

Today's environmental connection was made when next Caw officially closed applications for its fifth cohort of venture for Climate Tech, a signal that Rochester's climate tech scene isn't just growing, it's accelerating at a time when federal climate funding is under threat due to proposed budget cuts to the Department of Energy.

Rollbacks in clean energy tax credits and the withdrawal of key federal agencies from climate focused collaborations.

Rochester is quietly becoming a national bright spot for clean energy innovation, as federal support for climate solutions waivers.

Programs like Arpa-E are seeing reduced grant pipelines, while agencies like the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, you might know it as NOAA face cuts that could limit research and early warning systems for climate events.

And yet, amid all this uncertainty, Rochester is doubling down, leveraging local resources and private sector investment and state level support to build something rare.

Momentum from startups working on biodegradable packaging to job training programs preparing workers for green careers, a web of programs right here in Western New York is helping to turn ideas into impact.

But with that momentum, obviously comes those big questions can we scale fast enough to matter?

Are these innovations actually reaching the communities that need them most?

And what happens to all this progress if the national political winds keep shifting?

Today we're talking about how innovation intersects with climate resilience and whether Rochester is ready to lead.

Joining me in the studio today are Jack Barron, the managing director of venture for Climate Tech at Next Corps.

Doctor Chris Thomas, the CEO of Return Bio Works, and Mike Reed Langer, the managing director of technology commercialization at Next Corps.

Welcome to Environmental Connections, you guys.

Thank you.

Thank you so much for being here.

This is a big topic and it's one I'm looking forward to diving into.

But I'm also a little bit intimidated.

So hopefully you'll, hopefully you'll be able to guide us through some of these concepts that I think.

not everyone wraps their head around when they're thinking about environmental issues.

So, Jack, let's start defining some of the players for listeners who may not know what is next core and and how does it fit into the climate tech ecosystem?

in Rochester.

Great question Jasmin.

Next core is basically an incubator and accelerator.

Let me tell you our mission.

we're helping innovative tech companies launch and grow.

And that's both locally here in Rochester and now really on the global stage.

So we've got six different programs at Next Core, housed right in the center of downtown Rochester.

Corner of Main in Clinton and the Sibley Building.

We take up two thirds of the sixth floor of the Sibley Building right now with labs and office space.

And we're really people convene.

We're early stage companies, both local and software and manufacturing come together.

And now on the stage with virtual programs like venture for Climate Tech, the illuminate program scale for Climate tech, and the manufacturing, manufacturing Accelerator.

We'll talk about all of those because it's kind of confusing, but we're all doing the same thing helping these early stage companies launch and grow.

Well, thank you for validating my confusion.

But I would love it.

And we will dig into some of those issues a bit more.

But can you explain how venture for climate tech works, like from 1000ft High and how it's different from more traditional startup accelerators?

Sure.

So we're funded entirely by Nyserda, which is the New York State Energy Research Development Authority, and that is all of us as electric ratepayers in New York State, whether we're residential or commercial, all the corporations that have been paying on our electric bills for years, a little fee line at the bottom of the electric bill, says Nyserda.

Nice is funded by the ratepayers, so all of those who pay electric bills Nyserda has been very progressive over the years of focusing on not just electricity and reducing everyone's electric bill, but also really on being progressive in terms of research as it pertains to all aspects of energy and climate.

So what is a venture for climate tech?

We're a global accelerator.

What's an accelerator?

We basically provide mentoring and coaching and we help early stage companies across the energy spectrum.

Think solar, think wind, think biomaterials, geothermal, even fusion across the whole spectrum of energy and climate.

We help these early stage CEOs and their teams get to their first customers and their first investors.

So a lot of our responsibility is in networking and the mentoring that we do.

We help to teach them how to build a pitch deck, how to build a data room, how to build their basic financials, how to run their companies even from, you know, key results and, objectives, key results and key performance indicators, things that experienced entrepreneurs know, but a ton of it.

Jasmine is networking.

And so we connect with retired executives.

Columbia University is involved through Nyserda with the Climate Expertise Network, all these retired executives who just spend their time paying it forward, helping these early stage companies, giving of their time to help these people get to the next level.

Because being an entrepreneur, as Chris will tell us in a minute, is hugely challenging.

Yeah, well, I have many more questions and we will also get to you in a moment.

Chris.

But I want to turn to Mike because, Mike, your work focuses on technology commercialization and scaling climate hardware.

So what are the biggest gaps that you see between great ideas and market ready products?

Because everyone has an idea, right?

Well, so that is a big part of the role is to take things from essentially a laboratory, or maybe it's a workbench that the individual entrepreneurs might have at home and get it into the market.

So it usually means that you need to make something that other people can buy.

we want people to, to buy things at scale, meaning, through commercial markets.

for the many of the products that relate to climate that I work with.

The idea is, get these things on the market that reduce the emissions of greenhouse gases that contribute to, to, climate change, but do it, in enough volume that it really will make a difference.

So the key is a lot of research.

It's.

Well, it could be helpful to others.

it's only usable when it gets in the hands of consumers.

So many of the programs that I work on, relate to, how do we get that invention into something that that people now use in their everyday lives?

And, and we're at a point where we need thousands of different things, that will help in that, fight against climate change.

we need to teach many people here's the things that you need to do in order to make best use of manufacturing resources that we have here in our region.

Well, I'm curious because you've said that founders don't speak manufacturing.

So can you break that down a little bit and explain how your team helps to bridge that gap?

so many so our inventors will make their invention.

they do things more as a craftsman, like an artist would, would be doing a work of art, and they make some assumptions that other people, when they see this, will understand how to replicate it and make make more of them.

Well, for a manufacturer, there's there's process.

You want the first unit that comes off the line to be pretty much identical to the thousandth unit that comes off the same line, and you want them to function all the same way when they're when they're being used by the people that that need to use them.

So there is a whole practice and process and even a language that goes into how do we take these things that we've invented and made in our workshops, but be able to produce them, in quantity, with quality and, at a price that that makes it work in the marketplace.

So, so those are the things that we teach in our programs, in manufacturing accelerator and also in scale for climate tech.

Okay.

I want to continue sort of laying out the groundwork here a little bit.

So Jack, you've also got scale for climate tech.

So what is that.

And and how does it complement Mike's work.

And why is this prototype to production phase so critical.

So we're really I'm we're venture.

So I'm venture for climate tech Mike scale.

Got it.

Thank you Paul.

No worries.

So, but it's a great question because venture tend to be the earlier stage companies.

there's something that has been used for years called technology readiness level TRL.

So, and it's a scale of 1 to 10 or arguably 0 to 10, but a ten being, you really have products out in the market.

People are buying them.

You're doing well as a commercial enterprise.

We tend to be at, technology ready to have readiness level three through seven.

Mike, in the scale program, pick them up typically at about six, seven and beyond and help them scale all the way up.

As Mike said, getting from that first unit to the thousandth unit or maybe even the millionth unit as they figure out how to get more product into market.

And there are so many challenges associated with that.

So we go all the way kind of from the idea stage at the earliest stage, you know, not just out of universities, which is a lot of what we do, but, also even just private inventors who then come to market, we help them at the earliest stage and kind of get them ready for Mike scale.

And Mike, am I right that you helped to create a toolkit with RIT Golisano Institute?

Is that right to help help startups assess manufacturing readiness?

Well, that this this is true.

So so the Golisano Institute and Pollution Prevention Institute at our at that they've been very good partners in our programs.

I really, greatly treasure, the working relationship with them.

tools that we've created, help entrepreneurs, assess where they're at and their progress.

So it gives them a good guidepost.

Where are they at now?

What is the road ahead?

What are the next steps that they need to take.

So that's the importance of of these tools that we've developed.

Okay.

Well talking about the importance of the tools, I do want to turn to you now, Chris.

So tell us about return Bioworks.

What problem are you solving?

Return is tackling global plastic pollution.

That is our number one mission.

It's why I get out of bed every day.

And we're doing this by developing new sustainable materials.

And these materials will go into our packaging and replace toxic plastics that are in there with something that's recyclable, biodegradable, most importantly, nontoxic.

Okay.

Well, that's a lot.

That's you're not you're not just waking up in the morning and twiddling your thumbs.

I take it you're twiddling many other things.

And one of those things you're twiddling is biodegradable plastics from waste feedstocks, I understand.

So tell me about that.

What kind of impact could that have if scaled?

That's actually a really cool aspect of our technology.

And it's where our primary sustainability and cost metrics come from.

So what we aim to do is develop materials for paper based packaging.

And the way we aim to create it is by working with this massive abundance, 500,000 to 1 million tons of waste that comes from creating packaging every year in North America.

And so what this would look like is we co-locate at one of these facilities.

For example, there's one in Solvay in Syracuse that produces about 30,000 tons of waste every year.

And we can take that and generate our sustainable materials from it.

And then they can use that product in their packaging to replace things like polyethylene that coats the inside of your coffee cup.

Wow, I love that.

So you came through the venture for Climate Tech program.

What did that experience look like for you?

A lot of learning.

It was a lot of learning and a lot of connections.

You know, I started the program as a technical founder with some knowledge of how to commercialize a product and left still a technical founder, but more competent to be able to speak the language that you need to in order to talk to investors and in order to talk to customers and to have milestones in mind that guide conversations so that you can move through that quickly and efficiently.

Because it is always about time.

We think a lot about money as CEOs and as you know, climate tech folks developing technologies.

But it really is about time.

It's getting this out there quickly not only to have an impact, but that so you can have a successful company to do it.

And I spent a lot of time actually talking with Jack and talking with the mentors and the team, and how we can align what we are doing within our company to make sure that we are hitting our milestones quickly and efficiently.

And that was a huge value add.

And it's something that we still do today.

I'd love to turn to you guys because I'm curious from your vantage point, what makes a startup like return ready for a real world scale?

Like, what do you look for when you're helping founders reach that next level?

Great question.

So we've had over the last four years, over 1500 companies apply for the program.

And what we look for, Jasmine, is we look for great teams with great technology that we think are going to have the most impact.

So greenhouse gas mitigation.

So climate change impact is huge.

The only is our focus.

The only way you can have impact is if you have great team and great technology.

And a great team means really sharp people with the right kind of passion who are also coachable.

Because if someone's arrogant, then they don't want to listen to help.

they're not going to really benefit from your program at all.

And so we have to assess that as we get through this year, it was 311 companies applied for 20 spots.

And, we closed applications.

We went through boot camp this week.

We make the final decision on the fund.

We had 43 companies in boot camp this week.

We hope the final 20 that will be deciding with Nyserda and our advisory board who there's going to be a pitch competition, a mini one that happens in two weeks or a week and a half.

And, they actually pitch to our board, who are predominantly venture capitalists, people with long experience in this space, as well as the sort of folks, but people all the way up, including folks from Bill gates Breakthrough Energy Ventures, are on our advisory board.

So they'll actually assess, okay, which of these companies has the right combination of skills, really cool technology, passion and coach ability to get into the program.

And then we have the coolest jobs in the world because we get to basically help folks like Chris and his team get to the next level, which is a very elevating experience day to day.

So like a little Shark tank, basically is what you're planning.

Yes, Shark Tank with a lot of mentoring time.

And they have each team puts in roughly maybe ten, 12 hours a week with us.

So a lot of time and curriculum and courseware and mentoring and networking.

Okay.

And that's Jack Barron.

For those of you just tuning in, the managing director of venture for Climate Tech, Jack one of the more quietly powerful programs next core runs is the Clean Jobs Collaborative.

So why was it launched and how does it fit into the broader climate tech push?

Jasmine, I'm going to toss the ball over to Mike, because really that all reports up in the mic and next cork can be a little bit confusing because we get these six programs.

I think three of them are Mike's.

Go ahead Mike.

Well thank you Jack.

So, the, the sort of the concept behind this.

And we did receive funding through the Department of Energy.

to do this.

So, it happens that Rochester, New York is just a great location for manufacturing capacity.

because there's a history of manufacturers that are that are here with, skilled workforce, with a lot of resources that are available and more importantly, the majority of the energy of electrical energy that comes into Rochester actually comes from sources that do not emit greenhouse gases.

And it's something that I think too few people are really aware of.

But but Rochester is really a very unique place for manufacturing things that can be, climate friendly from the start.

Why tell me more about that?

I mean, you're just starting to touch on it, but I'm fascinated by this.

I mean, our regular listeners know that I came here because of climate.

I moved here from Los Angeles because of climate.

And certainly Western New York has a big reputation, or at least it's starting to as a bit of a climate haven.

So why is Rochester uniquely situated so relative to, to, electrical power that that's used to manufacture, to make things so, a lot of our power comes from hydroelectric sources or from nuclear sources, which do not emit greenhouse gases, unlike, gas fired, generators that are used, in fact, downstate New York City area, almost 98% of the energy, the electrical energy that they use comes from either a gas fired or oil fired, plants.

So upstate is really the place to manufacture things that, from the beginning, do not embody as much, carbon is things that are made in many other locales.

So.

So it ends up being very good from that aspect.

the other is it's a great, location relative to, to shipping and receiving materials from other places.

So things like access right on the Great Lakes, the amount of rail service that's available, even the interstate highway, for that matter, is, points for, for materials to move.

So it's really a very good location historically has been a great location for manufacturing.

the other because I just love the history of Rochester.

You know, Rochester became a manufacturing center, in the 1790s because of the Genesee Falls.

And so here is this immense source of natural energy, that was used that that powered many of the very early manufacturing sites that are here.

in our city.

So I think everyone in Rochester should know about it and be very proud of of where we stand relative to energy sources that that traditionally have been used that are not greenhouse gas emitting now.

Yeah.

Go ahead.

I'd love to get to that workforce.

question.

Yes, because the situation is well, there are many locations in our inner city that now can can be used, can be reused, for new jobs and new new manufacturing.

So the concept is, let's use the facilities and resource to bring products, into the marketplace that also help reduce greenhouse gas.

And to do that, there's going to be some workforce that needs to be recruited, that needs to be trained.

There's going to be facilities that need to, be updated so that they're, available and accessible for manufacture, sharing.

there's even the, the ability to, to locate the amount of power that new manufacturing facilities need.

So, this particular program does collaborative is a group of over 20 organizations that are here in our city that are focused on how do we how do we make the best use of all these resources and bring them to bear so that we now become a hub for manufacturing products that can be used?

It sounds like that's something that you're sort of nerding out about.

You're very excited.

I'm very passionate about it because I like almost every aspect of this.

It's it's bringing together, people in our community, that, that really need to be talking and sharing, they're all committed to, to, really building on our wonderful community that we have here.

and it is a great location just just by where it sits.

So, so I'm passionate about all of this.

A question for any of you, what would you say to someone in Rochester, especially from a historically excluded background who wants to work in climate tech?

But maybe doesn't know where to start?

Who wants to jump in with that?

What do you what do you think, Chris?

Yeah, that is a great question because it's literally something I was just asking Jack and his team about earlier today.

I was at Syracuse University for a pitch competition.

I met this really great, great woman, Karolina from Puerto Rico, and she is trying to solve a food waste issue that is food that is being transported in through through shipping crates and the like.

Is is going to waste like a third of it actually, that it crosses the the Gulf of Mexico is is being degraded along the way.

And so she wants to develop technologies that will allow her to prevent that from happening.

And so I'm thinking I just ran this game at three years ago.

How can I help set her up so that chance to make the same stumbling blocks, I, you know, same mistakes I did and gets to connect to really great people.

So my first thought is actually.

And afterward I'll be connecting her with with Jack's team at that next score.

And I hope that that will be a helpful place to start.

But I think it's really though those conversations with, folks who have a very high up view, like a top down view, who can immediately say, here's the parts of the New York ecosystem that is extensive and integrates into Rochester and beyond Rochester, like she's located in the Syracuse.

But I like to imagine that, you know, next core resources are available to her, right?

We're pretty broadly available.

I'm going to turn it over to Mike in a second.

But the Clean Jobs Collaborative, because that almost answers your question directly.

Jasmine.

but I'm going to talk about my wife's workforce development program called Green Visions, which is part of Green Topia.

So she's she runs it not for profit down at High Falls.

And, you know, was instrumental in it, along with Vinny Esposito at convincing the governor to actually launch an urban state park in the heart of downtown Rochester, which is in progress now with 40 acres at the bottom of High Falls.

In the next few years, it becomes a state park.

Spectacular.

But the other part of the program they run is also tied in now with the Clean Jobs Collaborative that Mike is going to talk about.

And that is, they work with inner city kids.

Well, the older kids, so 18 to 24, who typically they don't have their GED, they haven't graduated from high school, and they work specifically in egg.

So they tied in with the Cornell Cooperative Extension.

They get them OSHA training and they do farming.

Urban farming in town here, working in climate, really.

And then they go on to jobs from there.

This is these kids.

It's their first job and they've been around for about a decade now.

So there are small programs like that.

And of course, you know what Simeon Bannister and his team do is extraordinary, in this city.

And so there there is focus.

but I think Rochester is emerging as a climate central area and the Finger Lakes and, you know, Chris is based down in the Finger Lakes with his his company now return bio.

and region is another one that's at Cornell that came through our program last year.

And Alexa Schmidt, who runs that company, they're focused on capturing lithium and other metals for mining and so forth.

I mean, we are becoming a hub because the workforce is ready.

We were a college town with over 80,000 brilliant or aspiring brilliant people in town when school's in session in the 19 colleges and universities in and around greater Rochester.

And we want jobs like this to actually keep our graduates in town and climate and software, probably the best areas for people to be focused at growing their careers in this area.

I imagine that being your first job, I think mine was like giving out sandwich samples at Roly Poly in Menlo Park Mall in New Jersey.

I wish I could redo that.

Tell us about the Clean Jobs initiative.

Sure.

So, it happens that there are many different, internships there, apprenticeships that are available, their businesses that are in downtown Rochester, or easily accessible, and all the neighborhoods that surround downtown Rochester, we do have organizations like, action for Better Community that are part of the group, MCC that offers many training programs and there are, scholarships.

There are, work, programs that are tied to both getting income, along with getting education and training.

so this is the purpose for bringing this together so that, companies now have, new resources for, for acquiring and training a skilled workforce for manufacturing in the city.

So these are good paying jobs.

there usually is some training involved, but we have programs to provide that.

we're working on.

How do we remove other barriers?

Things like transportation, daycare, other resources to make it possible for people to do this and earn a good living.

So this this is our our goal from the Clean Jobs Collaborative.

Yes.

Chris, I was just thinking back.

Sorry.

I want to hear from you.

You're on the ground doing all of this work.

I'm still thinking about how to support those people who are coming up with ideas.

And I realized it depends which of two buckets they fall into.

Are they a technical founder, someone who's invented something really cool?

Maybe they're doing research at a laboratory and they're wondering, hey, does this have legs?

Can this go somewhere?

Can this approach, this kind of problem?

Or are they someone with just coming from a business background saying, I see this problem in industry and I want to find a technology that solves it.

So actually this is going to make me ask you to a question, depending on which of that type of a founder would they are, where would you point them?

If they're a technical founder with a technology that they want to assess for commercialize ability, or if they are a business oriented founder who has identified a problem and wants to connect to a technology that could help grow into that.

You guys are making my job easy today.

I'll go first.

On the technical side, if it's climate related, venture for climate tech is a great place to start.

And then as companies kind of grow through that program, going on to like scale for climate tech program is outstanding or and even eventually the manufacturing accelerator, if they're more business oriented, I think I would turn them over to Matt Foley and his team on the incubator side.

Mike, do you want to talk to that a little bit?

Sure.

So, for for our incubator.

So it is set up so that, any type of business that's tech oriented, that's here in the Rochester area can can come in to our incubator that's in the Sibley, square in the sixth floor of Sibley Square.

Excuse me.

And, be able to, take access of the entrepreneurs and residents that that are there.

there are many resources where we have connections into the community for others to, to network with and work with.

so that's a good place if you're here in Rochester, the other programs.

So Jack mentioned, the venture for climate tech, certainly in the climate tech space, if it's a thing to be manufactured at that scale, we do have an open program called the Manufacturing Accelerator.

We we run a couple of cohorts a year.

It's a virtual program for people to learn about manufacturing.

And then we provide connections, to different, regional manufacturing resources through another part of Next Core.

That's the Manufacturing Extension Partnership program.

So we work with many, manufacturers that have 500 employees or less, throughout the nine county region.

in New York, we're part of a national, program.

So we can also make connections for others in other states in the country, to connect with their MEP offices wherever they are.

So, so in any case, it's a matter of literally contacting us at next quarter.

We can have a conversation and find out really was the best fit.

That's been cool.

So, Chris, I have one question for you.

And then we're going to take a short break.

How are you thinking about growing your workforce locally as return grows?

I am from Syracuse.

I am deeply aware of, you know, our our central New York kind of Rust Belt status.

And I want to have that positive impact.

So for me, I am always looking at how can I grow my team from my community.

And I constantly tap to that means I'm hitting up my friends all the time saying, hey, you have the right skills, so do you want to come work with my company?

And that's actually a win win for me because I get to have that connection to the local economy.

But at the same time, it is the best people for the job because it's not just a technical fit, it's also a culture fit.

And if someone's my friend, I know they probably have the culture fit and if I can talk to them, if they have the technical fit to, that's great.

And it has worked out very, very well.

And then I will, I gotta, I gotta throw in a jack for that, because the venture for Climate Tech program really accelerated our business progress, allowed us to get investment from, some places outside the US.

And, we did just make our sixth hire, actually into the Finger Lakes region.

Wow.

Well, congratulations.

So someone wants to work for return Bioworks become friends with Chris Thomas is basically.

That's basically it.

Okay, well, listen, we're going to take a really quick break, but when we come back, we're going to talk a little bit more about the role of New York State and what happens when federal support falters and whether Rochester is ready to lead on climate tech.

So stay with us.

There's more environmental connections after this.

From WXXI news, I'm Jasmine Singer.

Tune in Friday to Environmental Connections.

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But political pushback and federal funding cuts are putting that future at risk.

How we got here, what's stalling the offshore wind rollout and what it will take to stay on course?

That's in our second hour Friday on environmental connections.

European leaders have been shocked at the Trump administration's apparent tilt towards Russia in negotiating a deal to end the war in Ukraine, but NATO Secretary General Mark Russo says he doesn't see it that way.

President Trump's team and he himself really tried to an even handed way, bring this whole process forward.

That will mean compromises on on all sides.

We speak with him on the next morning Edition.

From NPR news.

If you're just tuning in, I'm Jasmine Singer, and this is Environmental Connections.

Today we're talking about Rochester's growing role in climate innovation, specifically how programs like Next Scores, Venture and Scale for climate Tech are helping startups build real world solutions to the climate crisis.

I'm joined today by Jack Baron of Next Core, Chris Thomas of Return Bioworks, and Mike Redlener, who is the managing director of technology commercialization at Xcor.

So you guys, we've gotten a couple emails in that I want to address, and if you're listening to this, please feel free to call us at (844) 295-8255.

If you're local (585) 263-9994, or you can shoot us an email at connections at xorg.

Or for those of you on YouTube, hello, and feel free to leave a comment if you have a question for any of my guests.

So we have an email from Alex.

Alex says, as much as I would like Rochester to become a climate hub, I think we have to reckon with business interests pursuing short sighted investments like the Bitcoin mining facility on Seneca Lake or the recently greenlit data center in Genesee County abutting Seneca lands.

Green capitalism will not save us, Alec says.

We need massive public projects to cement our status as a climate refuge.

Who wants to respond to Alec?

So that super simple question right there, they won't have any thoughts on that.

Jack, I think massive public projects are always welcome when they're well thought out and planned.

but I think, you know, we're taking a lot of steps right now in terms of moving Rochester ahead and the Finger Lakes ahead as a climate hub.

So I disagree with Alex on a couple of points.

One is, especially with these early stage companies, they tend to come out of universities, a lot of them, like Cornell or MIT or Stanford, and they tend to be, you know, brilliant inventors who have small companies and are building things like in the solar realm.

Let me give you one example out of Carnegie Mellon, down in Pittsburgh.

So a team that came through last year's cohort, they invented a new methodology for continuously making solar cells, which is that currently almost all solar panels and solar cells come out of China.

And, I think they're like 96%.

And that's a using a process that's about 40 years old.

And it's, very labor intensive, 14 steps in the process.

And the folks at Carnegie Mellon, it's Elysium R&D.

Egor, who came through our program, they, over the last decade, have invented a process that is roughly 50% cheaper than the 14 step process in China.

So even though when you think about some of the chaos going on at the federal level right now, and the uncertainty around funding, some of it actually has some potential to help us because as we think about domestic manufacturing and we think about things like Solar Lyceum coming out of Carnegie Mellon and potentially building plants in the US to make solar cells, that's real, that actually can work.

And bizarre as it may sound, a lot of the technologies like return bio, like Chris's return bio, and many of the others that we're working with, these folks are really getting ready for prime time, which is how they're getting investment dollars from private investment, not just non dilutive capital from the government, but these folks are actually moving toward real product with innovations that if we listed them all, they would simply shock you, in solar and wind and geothermal and bio materials like Chris's world.

That's that's fascinating.

I want to talk a little bit more about the bigger policy picture.

New York has made some huge bets on clean energy.

How has that benefited startups in Rochester?

Who wants to take that one?

Yeah.

You guys have smoke coming out of your mind, Mike, why don't you take it?

Well, so there are many, companies that have gone through the scale for climate tech program, statewide.

And by the way, we do partner with a group called Second Muse in the New York City, area as well.

So, so we we share many resources across the state.

And I am very, appreciative of all the funding that is available and all the support that is available through our state government and, and other organizations here.

for Rochester, there are companies that have been founded here, are growing here.

You know, the one that comes to mind very quickly is called wax energy.

So to wax, actually, a former Kodak scientist that put together, thinking, how do we provide, an additional layer of insulation to windows, conventional windows, but not make it a big hassle?

and a big cost to do this.

So there's, numbers of different things that he had put to work.

So there's coatings on materials, there's ways to affix them.

There's process for measurement.

So, he's gone through the program.

and now can sort of, create a product that's mass customization.

So for each and every, window that you'd like to get an additional layer of insulation for at a, pretty reasonable cost.

he has a process and a product that that's now available to use.

It, has done some projects in our program, pilot scale, for dormitories for both State University of New York dormitory.

So, so this is, you know, these are real things that are available now that that are making a difference right here in Rochester.

See, where was that three years ago when I got triple pane windows?

That's that's exactly I think.

And and you're exactly the kind of customer he's looking for.

Well, hopefully not, because hopefully mine will last.

Yeah.

If I, if I might add to that like so state resources state programs that are helping grow startups right.

Yes.

Okay.

So just an interesting one that I figured I wanted to throw in there.

And this is of course also related to how I started this.

What I'm learning is that it's not just incubators and accelerators.

There's also long standing entities which people might not associate with commercialization, like the Dec Department of Environmental Conservation.

And so they will sponsor research like they do right now through this program called the center for Sustainable Materials Management, which develops sustainable technologies for commercial leasable uses.

So what do shifts in federal and state policy mean for companies like yours?

Chris?

It is hugely impactful, hugely impactful.

I mean, for us, we grew a lot because of collaboration with the federal government, with agencies like the National Science Foundation, like the USDA.

And that uncertainty has, affected future projects and current projects with current projects.

I mean, January 7th, I want to go right paychecks, my employees and oh, the bank accounts are frozen.

They're gone.

Like that was just a huge, staggering blow to morale.

And it's like, okay, this is how we're getting started into the year.

Thankfully, they're all your friends, so.

Yeah, exactly.

Well, it's not just that, though.

I mean, it's, you know, when I go to work with my collaborators.

And so these are dedicated scientists at the NSF, at the USDA, etc., they are dealing with so much uncertainty in their jobs.

It is, of course, impacting their ability to focus on their work.

And then you look ahead, you know, so this str sbir program is the classic way deep tech startups get started in supporting the U.S. it's a great program.

And, those are being stopped.

They're being stalled.

They're they're being completely modified, subject to a bunch of regulations, about word choice, etc.. And so it means that we, we can't really look at federal funding as, as a sustainable and stable option.

And thank God there's so many great state programs.

And so I think in the future those will be shining more brightly.

But it also infects affects investment.

It causes investors to be kind of pulling back and being more cautious in the space, especially US based investors.

I mean, our lead is from Canada, if that helps color in the picture.

and then our industry.

Right.

So we, at least in our space, are generating materials for a commodity marketplace.

And in order for companies to make investments into commodity market, for them to think long term like that caller Alex is talking about, they need a strong economy.

And these types of investments from the federal government help contribute to that.

And so with everything kind of pulling back, that affects their ability to put money towards sustainable green development in new technologies and materials.

But it is a global market.

So the US might be pulling back with that just means other countries in other areas are kind of stepping in to fill in the void.

That's a really good point that we're really global.

So venture for climate tech based at Next Core and scale for climate tech.

These are global programs.

So there's often times uncertainty at the federal government level in terms of grant funding.

So as it's called in that and in our industry non dilutive cash.

So non dilutive funding.

but New York State in particular historically and right now and California and arguably Massachusetts are the leaders in the nation in terms of funding directly for early stage investment.

We took a look back.

There are 58 companies in our portfolio right now.

Adventure for Climate Tech that have graduate from the program.

We took a look at their funding over time.

What percentage has been federal.

So 21%.

Just 21% has been federal funding.

Now it's still a lot.

And uncertain times are not welcome.

But you know the fact that we're global and reach have global invest investor access global networks helps tremendously as we help these companies scale.

Now we're going to have to be more focused for the next few years for sure, because of some of the uncertainty that we're seeing at the federal level.

Right.

Well, I were are you going to jump in with that?

Please do.

I just wanted to build on the fact that, really the funding that we've gotten both from the state as well as the federal government, this ends up being catalytic for other investments.

So in the scale, for Climate Tech program as an example, and we do get companies that are further along.

They've had to have built a prototype.

They know that there's customers in a market for what they're building.

So it's a little bit different.

But but the money that we get is returned almost 50 to 1 in other funding.

So so for each dollar that that is supporting things from either the state or federal government.

And in our program, there's about another $50 that comes in from other investors or other sources to support that, that company.

So it's that catalytic nature of having that initial funding that really makes all the difference.

Well, it sounds very hopeful, and I certainly don't want to be the Debbie Downer in the room, but I am wondering if funding is harder to come by.

Do you worry at all about losing momentum or or do you feel like the ecosystem is strong enough to keep going?

So adaptability, I guess, is the word that comes to mind.

So, you know, I'm driven to, to keep things going.

I want to figure that out.

so my plan is, we're we're going to be adaptable.

We'll figure out what it takes to keep things going and maintain that momentum.

But I will say it will be a challenge.

So, Jasmine, you know, folks who are committed and passionate about the realities of climate change and its effects, it's not going away, nor is their passion going away.

So there are a lot of people that really care deeply about this.

If anything, if you look at it a little bit, glass half full, it's a really good reason to energize around that and focus around that.

Now we've got some global resources to pull in, but to say we're not concerned about federal funding would be naive and silly.

We are, partly because federal funding does a couple of really good things in the startup world.

People talk a lot about the valleys of death that these companies face.

One fairly early one is that at that research early stage, when, like Chris, is just building a team, he's got six people going from one person to six people.

Super challenging because you have to be able to raise funding to pay salaries and put bread on the table.

Right.

But going from there to 20 people, 30 people, 60 people, 600 people, also hugely challenging.

But by the time you get past, you know, you're you're you're actually producing product and commercializing.

You've got revenue coming in and you get to break even as quickly as you can so that in fact, you you move your company from the red into the black and you can and you can attract more investment money.

That's private investment money.

So it's that's why we're yes, we're all nervous about this earliest stage and the federal level.

it's going to require states to double down.

Going back to Alex, the earlier emailer.

Yes.

I agree with Alex.

This is a great time for New York State for folks like wonderful Vinnie Esposito and Laura Fox locally, who, you know, run economic empire state development for New York State for the governor to double down in New York State from a funding standpoint, because we've got very enormous goals on the climate side that the governor is fully supportive of.

We're going to have to actually refocus and double down and go for some of these huge investment programs to support these early stage businesses.

So talking about that resilience and the temerity to push through, we talked about some people who are affected directly, some who may be pulling back, but industry actually the champions within industry are the ones who are saying four years is a very short time considering the types of investments they make.

And so those folks who are trying to develop sustainable technologies at the global multibillion dollar scale, they still want those, they still want to make those changes happen.

And so at least that pole has not been affected at all.

It's just how we're getting there.

So that was Chris Thomas, CEO of return Bioworks.

Chris, big picture if return is successful, really successful, what does that future look like?

You could compost your coffee cup, or you could compost your takeout container in your home compost, and it'll turn into soil that you can use to grow something that will make food for you again.

And then the thing that I'm looking at is that we are no longer growing the amount of microplastics that are in our ocean, that are in our soil and future generations won't have an abundance of microplastics within their bodies.

That's that's the big picture thing that I'm looking at from, you know, public health and environmental standpoint.

If you're looking at the company development, there's there's two possible paths.

And we're always back and forth on this.

And one is that one of these, you know, these really cool companies that we work with, picks it up and they take it over, which would make sense.

Like, you know, talk about six to 20 to 30.

You know, I think a company with thousands of employees would be much more capable to deploy this at a scale.

And certainly it's a skill set that we don't have right now.

Maybe work with Mike and we'll figure out how to make it happen.

That's the second path is this is kind of the dream.

And thankfully, my Canadian investor shares that dream.

He's like, hey, wouldn't it be cool if you built a facility to do that in New York and return, owned it and grew it there and then?

Now we're talking about that real long term investment in that real long term job growth.

It's much more challenging to do.

And I expect if we're going to be pursuing that path, that will be leveraging some of these kind of resources over here.

Well, I'm in for your future, by the way.

Sign me up so we don't have much time left.

But I do want to get to this other email, and I want to get your thoughts on it before we close Jack and Mike.

So we have an email from C, C why it says, is the organization only focused on manufacturing and the production of more things, even if it's made from recycled material?

Does any aspect of the startup organization focus on helping people make better use, or reuse or repurposing of products that are already out there, but at the end of their intended lifecycle, or around redistributing resources to those in need, or can better make use of them to reduce consumer waste.

We'll focus on two areas there.

I'll let Mike talk about his work with Golisano and remade, because there's a lot of focus on that.

But just stepping back to see why is first part of their question.

we also have this really strong services component.

So Matt Foley runs the incubator and at Next Core and a lot of it is software based.

So he just had a program called Embarek, which they had.

It's a no code focused program where they had 70 local Rochester and go through, and they launched ten companies from that in no code.

So pure software programing and Matt's got roughly 80 companies right now, a little less than 80 companies downtown that are based there in Rochester, that are Rochester, companies that are launching.

So a lot of services orientation.

But I let Mike talk about remade and reuse.

So, much of my work focuses on manufacturing.

but the other part of this is, one of the tenants is don't make things that people aren't going to use and really use for their useful life.

So this is this is part of what we do inside of our program.

an element inside the manufacturing, accelerator program is on sustainable manufacturing practices, which includes what happens to things at the end of their life.

And it happens that that there is a national center at RIT called the Remade Institute.

And its purpose is to help support manufacturers and repair all the elements inside of the things that they make.

So.

So this is, key part of it.

It's part of your whole ethos.

That's correct.

Yeah.

So just as we start to close up, what would success look like for Next Core and Rochester's climate tech community in, say, 2030?

Wow.

Great question.

So we are expanding.

So we have two thirds of the sixth floor at Sibley downtown.

We're going to have another 27,000ft next year.

So we'll be overlooking Main Street and East Avenue and parcel five from the sixth floor.

more room for more entrepreneurs, more startups.

a bit more lab space, actually, as we proceed, we've got lab space there.

Now come visit us.

Go to Next Core, which has an S on the end.

So it's next dawg.

A lot of that information is on our website.

If you want to get involved, we want to come down and tour.

We're really friendly bunch.

And so we'd love to show you around and help you understand a little bit more about the ecosystem.

All that we do to help launch new companies we haven't even mentioned, illuminate kind of our flagship program, doctor Sujatha Rahman, Schumann Ramanujan.

She is brilliant.

And, that is a been in existence for eight years now.

So she has roughly 80 companies that are in her portfolio.

Optics, photonics and Imaging, a global program recognized by the National Science Foundation as a leading accelerator, arguably the leading accelerator in optics in the world.

And that's based here at NEX Core, also right downtown.

Amazing.

And that's Jack Barron.

So, Mike, I'm going to turn to you to close this out here for someone listening right now, maybe a student or someone looking for a second career, what's one practical step they could take to explore working in climate innovation?

Well, there's a few.

And the other is, I do want to call out the just the community that we're in.

So there's many different organizations that that are all very supportive of things that are in the, the what I would call the climate tech space.

So there is, a group that is the Climate Solutions Accelerator so that the people can always engage in.

So so students are definitely welcome.

Interested citizens, are welcome.

And there are things that can be done, literally, at the household individual level here in our community, to practice things that are beneficial to our environment.

10s or less.

For your second point, oh, my second point is we have an awesome community here in Rochester with people that really do care about climate.

and I am glad to be working with them.

I invite more, I love it.

Well, that's all for environmental connections for this hour.

My huge thanks to Jack Barron, Mike Reed, and Chris Thomas.

As we could tell, the climate crisis demands these bold and scalable solutions and the real work is happening right here.

And it's thanks to folks like you and the folks that you mentioned on today's episode from WXXI news.

I'm Jasmine Singer.

Thanks for making today's environmental connection and.

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