Frigid cold and a snowstorm impacting half the nation.

Descend on northeast Ohio.

So great time for a road salt shortage, Cleveland and other northeast Ohio cities have to ration.

And Cleveland hiked on street parking rates and extended hours that you have to pay.

No free parking downtown on weekends.

Ideas is next.

Hello and welcome to ideas.

I'm Mike McIntyre.

Thanks for joining us.

Are you prepared to hunker down this weekend?

Dangerously cold temperatures descend today, and a cross-country winter storm promises to pound us with snow Sunday.

But, hey, at least there's a local road salt shortage.

Sorry, was that two Cleveland of me?

Data centers are going to nearly double across the state in the coming years, including a new one in canton.

The power grid will be on our minds during the storm, but what will the long term impact be of the proliferation of data centers all across the state?

Prices for on street parking have gone up in Cleveland, and the hours you must pay have been extended downtown.

Even on the weekend, you park, you pay.

And property tax valuations in 16 Ohio counties are being delayed for a year because of a scarcity of appraisers.

Joining me to discuss these stories and other top news of the week from Idea Stream.

Public media reporter Gabriel Kramer from the Canton Repository.

Reporter Kelly Beier.

And in Columbus State House news Bureau chief Karen Kasler.

Let's get ready to round table.

now, I'm no weatherman, but here's some advice for you this weekend.

Stay indoors.

Another cold snap is coming.

And on Sunday, we're getting socked with snow.

What a perfect time for a road salt shortage which Cleveland and other communities are dealing with.

Remember, turn into the slide.

Karen.

This isn't just the Northeast Ohio and Lake effect event.

Most of everyone in Ohio is going to see something from this storm, and it has the governor's attention, too.

Yeah.

And what's interesting, I think about the storm is, I mean, first of all, the really bitter cold and wind chills are going to be bad, but the southern part of the state is going to get potentially more than the northern part of the state.

So that obviously has governor Mike DeWine and other state officials really looking at what the state can do here.

So do I'll be talking to reporters this afternoon, along with some other people at the emergency operations center that is in the northwest part of Columbus, to try to explain exactly what the state's prepared to do to keep things going, if indeed we get to blizzard conditions.

And, you know, if the worst actually happens, at least when it comes to the forecast, I mean, we're talking about 6 to 10in in parts of the state up to a foot in other parts of the state.

So it's a lot.

Yeah.

And we're used to it here a little more so I think than Columbus and not like you never have weather.

But it's a it's a bigger deal.

It seems.

Oh yeah it is.

It feels like everybody forgets how to drive.

And you know, when you start talking about, like, the southern part of the state where you've got lots of roads that are difficult to access, that aren't, you know, that aren't easy in regular conditions.

And you mentioned the salt shortage.

I mean, Odot says it's got about, I think, a half a million tons of salt.

That's for state routes and highways, though that's not for municipalities.

And then they've got about 10.5 million gallons of deicer.

But again, you know, getting to some of these areas might be a challenge.

And so this this could potentially be difficult for people who really are snowed in for a long period of time.

In a way it's good it's happening on the weekend, though it may not be so great for others.

Yeah, for sure.

And Gabe, about that salt shortage.

I just had a friend of mine text me listening to the intro to the show and said, how can there be a salt shortage?

If only we had a salt mine like right under the lake near us, right?

And we do.

I know it's not just as easy as, you know, running around from that in that minute, but why do we have a salt shortage?

What's going on?

So the salt is distributed by a company called Cargill a Cleveland.

The city of Cleveland had an order put in for more salt in August.

And Cargill is saying that because of an early round of winter, that the distribution of had to take priority elsewhere at the time or earlier in the season.

So Cleveland is currently sitting on 6000 tons of salt, which sounds like a big number.

Sounds like a lot of salt at one storm, but that's one storm's worth, and maybe not a major storm, and probably not a major storm, which we are anticipating having some pretty hefty, if not snow.

A lot of cold weather.

We're going to have both of it in the next week and a half at least.

Odot is saying that they have about 32,000, tons tons of salt for what they're calling district 12, which includes Carroll County, John County, Lake County.

And they said that's plenty for where they're covering, which includes highways, but not East 14th Street behind us.

And speaking of that, so the city says what they're going to do is prioritize the main avenue.

So you would see more likely Euclid gets all right, but not 14th Street.

Right, exactly.

And that perhaps might mean downtown and maybe some neighborhoods that see less, car traffic.

So what are we going to do about that?

Kelly, what's your plan this weekend?

You're just going to stay off the road?

I'm staying holed up in my house under a nice, big, cozy blanket.

PetSmart.

And, Gabriel, I love that.

I love that as well.

That's what I'm here doing.

Unfortunately, for a lot of people, they don't have these cozy homes.

So I, I spoke with the Northeast Ohio Coalition for the homeless yesterday who, gave me some information.

So they have this new seasonal shelter that is open to be a shelter from, two weeks ago until April.

And they said that that's been really a great success to helping bring people off the streets, people who need a place for shelter.

They were scheduled to be open every day from 6 p.m.

until 8 a.m., but they've actually been opening earlier, to let people in come in earlier.

One cool thing about the shelter, which holds about 45 people and hasn't been at capacity, has been close to capacity last week and a half, is that people it's not a first come, first serve basis, people.

They're part of a system.

People are kind of reached out to, of needing a place.

So when they know they're coming back the next day, they can actually kind of keep some stuff overnight.

So it kind of becomes more cozy and comfortable.

Yeah, a little more like a home, a place to to stay one night.

And yeah, that's a really important point, is to remember those of us who can't lie under a blanket at home and stay warm, human beings, pets as well, take care of your pets, make sure they're not out in this kind of weather.

And actually, that shelter can take people with pets.

It has a designated room for LGBTQ people.

And the city told me last night, the city of Cleveland told me last night that, the warming center schedule is being extended.

It will be 12 days a month of warming center, capacity, which has been much busier this month than it was last month.

And the cold is going to stay with us for a while.

This is not, just a little stretch for a couple of days.

The National Weather Service data show that yesterday was kind of like the warm day.

Yesterday was like the reprieve that we didn't realize.

It may be missed, but tonight the low is negative three degrees and it will be a below 20 if not single digits for the next week.

Yeah.

So we're gonna have freezing temperatures for a very long stretch.

A couple of bits of advice, by the way, from from Odot, first of are from triple AA, actually the American Automobile Association, it says avoid unnecessary trips, which it sounds like we are all planning to do.

Yeah, right.

Slow down, adjust your speed, accelerate and decelerate gently.

I've got one of those hand pedals on my car that that kind of shifts it down.

Oh, it'll decelerate as it go.

A lot of the, newer cars have that.

I gotta get a new car.

Yeah.

It's not a fancy new car, but it's got that, and it slows you down.

And that might be a good thing to use.

You increase your following distance, you know, your brakes and whether they're anti-lock or not, you maintain momentum, especially on hills.

Don't use cruise control.

Says triple AA.

When you're in those situations and make sure you're prepared.

You got cell phone, car chargers.

You have flashlights with extra batteries, first aid kit, all that kind of stuff.

Just be ready.

It may not be Armageddon, but, it's always smart when one of these things comes to be ready.

And speaking of Armageddon, Karen, this Sunday, we mark 48 years since the blizzard of 78, when you and I were in elementary school, back then, when the snow and blizzards were fun.

But that was a storm for for yourself.

I'm not.

I'm not confirming that I. You know what?

I might actually.

No, I wasn't in high school yet.

I was definitely in elementary school.

A middle school, maybe.

But but man, I saw these pictures, and I'm sure we'll be showing them, when we have the show on television this evening as well, from the Cleveland Public Library.

Actually, they're up on our screen right now.

If you look at some of those, that is a picture we're looking at a guy standing on a snowdrift, and underneath him is what looks like maybe some pavement.

It wasn't.

It was the top of his car.

And you see that, like in a parking lot?

The shopping carts are abandoned on highways.

Cars are abandoned.

This happened in 1978.

Yeah, that's a highway.

That's the highway?

Yeah.

There.

Stop there.

This guy's just sitting on his car on the highway.

So when you think about that, man, we're going to dodge that, right?

And I don't like I'm not a forecaster.

I wouldn't want to be a meteorologist right now, because I know snow totals are really difficult to come up with.

But I should note that because of the Blizzard of 78, you got the Statehouse News Bureau because it was actually the statewide response to what the heck is going on that made public radio and TV stations around the state say, hey, we should have a bureau at the statehouse that gives us statewide news and can reach the governor and some of these people when emergencies happen.

So so that way it's good things can happen.

Yeah.

It was that in 78 or 79.

That was in 1980 by the time it all came together.

But it was just that necessary need for statewide news.

And, you know, a lot of people during the blizzard of 78, people were really stranded.

I mean, you had parts of the state that were really inaccessible for weeks, as I recall.

So it's it was it was tough.

I, I, I hope we don't go that route because that's pretty difficult to think about right now.

Power outages could result from the winter storm this weekend, but even on calm weather days, Ohio is having a hard time keeping up with rising energy demand.

One main driver of that increased demand data centers.

Columbus has become a key location for them, with one report concluding it's the second largest hub in the Great Lakes region.

Those centers are popping up everywhere, including in Stark County.

And so, Kelly, I wanted to bring you into the conversation on this.

You've done some reporting on a data center that's expected to go in Perry Township.

What about the location and what do we know about it so far?

Yeah, so this is about 100 acres south of the metallic steel plant on Fair Crest Street.

And the Perry Township administrator, Jerry Cotter has confirmed it's a planned data center, although the company that is out there, you know, moving dirt at this point, Pennington Development Company has said it's still in the early, early planning stages, and they're saying they're still evaluating multiple, potential uses across Ohio.

We're looking at almost doubling the number of data centers.

They are important for AI, which is artificial intelligence, which is going now.

It's got all the servers and all that kind of stuff.

And it is necessary really for the new economy.

But on the other hand, huge electricity usage and water usage to what are the leaders in Perry Township hope for the development?

Are they concerned about those things?

Water usage, electricity, etc.?

Yeah.

So at this point we don't have a lot of information about the number of employees or tax revenue expected.

It is in a joint economic development district, so it will share any income tax with the city of canton receiving 2% and Perry Township receiving half a percent.

So they're hoping that it will have some sort of economic benefit for the township.

And as far as water goes, the city is expected to supply that.

The water Superintendent Tyler Converse, has said they have an additional 4 to 6 million gallons of water that they could supply.

So it's not entirely concerned about the amount of water that they will be using, although they still have not received a, estimated daily demand.

So there's another one planned in canton, possibly too.

So we're going to see these popping up all over the state.

Well, let's talk about that.

The other data centers plan for Ohio I think now we have about 100.

What's the plan?

Yeah.

So the other, location, there's at least one that seems to be all signs pointing towards a potential data center.

That's another, like, 80 acre site in was Kent Township, recently annexed by the city.

And that was purchased just recently for a large sum by Denmark Digital.

And they've made an announcement that they are investing in data centers, particularly in Ohio.

So this is a Dubai based company that has actually a background in luxury real estate development.

They actually, built the first Trump branded golf course in the Middle East.

And so that is the other site I'm Kevin keeping tabs on.

There do seem to be a few small data centers may be in existing buildings in the area, according to the data center map.com.

And then there's the bit Deere crypto mining facility, being built in Massillon.

But these would be the largest, potential data centers in stark.

And, Karen, there'd be 77 more data centers in Ohio planned.

There was a study that was done by the University of Virginia's Weldon Cooper Center.

By 2030, data centers are expected to add 37,200 jobs and grow the state's gross domestic product by a $4.7 billion in Ohio.

They're also expected to really suck up the electricity in Ohio as well.

We talked in the roundtable about Ohio's approaching power generation.

Clift Cliff, in the past, our lawmakers still all in on data centers.

And what solutions, if any, have been suggested?

Well, when they return, because they haven't been in session for a while, it's expected that they're going to take up some legislation that deals with this.

I mean, part of the problem here is you've got there was this real, desire and flux to move to, bring in data centers and all sorts of high tech outfits.

I mean, you might remember back in 2022 when Intel when it became the the state's largest public private partnership at the time and central Ohio was going to be going to be the silicon heartland.

And now you've got some lawmakers who are saying maybe this wasn't the greatest idea in the world just because of the need for energy and water that those data centers do have.

I mean, in the central Ohio area, retail, residential electricity prices have gone up between seven and a half and 13%.

And so those kind of demands, when you've got people who are calling their lawmakers saying, I can't afford my electric bill anymore, that's a real concern here.

So you've got some lawmakers who are saying maybe we need to do some other things.

Maybe you need to require data centers to start paying for some of the extra energy that they're using.

So I anticipate this is going to be a big talking point, along with property taxes, which I think is going to be the biggest thing that lawmakers will talk about.

Yeah, and we mentioned Great Lakes is a big region for data centers, Chicago being, sort of the heart of that, but Columbus also being high on that.

And they're expected to consume as much electricity as 8 million households or 20 million people, by 2030.

It's a lot.

Yeah, it is it is a lot.

And, you know, there are questions about, the regional transmission organization called PJM and what Ohio, where Ohio is with that and what can be done in all these different areas.

I mean, it's a complicated issue when you start talking about utilities and electricity and all that stuff.

But, this is the kind of thing that I think, you're going to hear lawmakers talking about in an election year as people are saying, these electric bills are too high.

Parking in Cleveland is more convenient.

You don't have to root around your pockets or the glove box for coins anymore, but it's also more expensive.

Now.

And downtown you have to pay to park even on the weekends.

The new digital coinlist metered system lets you park for up to four hours, but the rate increases each hour and enforcement will be extended seven days a week, except in Ohio City, where Sundays are free game.

Let's talk about this.

I know when, when Mayor Bibb was running the first time, he said, we have got to become a city that moves into the 21st century.

We can't be having coin operated meters.

And pretty quickly it went to, you can use your phone.

Now we're seeing a much different change, and I wonder what the reasoning is behind it.

Well, I remember we were on this show a couple years ago talking about the hybrid model of you could use the meter or you could use the new app.

So now the the quarter system is gone.

If you got a couple of quarters in your car, I do to save it for all that.

You can't bring it here.

Instead you have to use a park mobile app.

So you scan a QR code, you sign in your app, and you type in your license plate number.

The code of the street, area you're on, the zone you're on.

And then, it's it went from $1 for an hour.

It's now going to be 150 an hour plus a service fee.

So it's going to be more like 185 ish, for an hour.

So that's for the first two hours.

The third hour is three bucks.

The fourth hour is 450.

Yes.

So it's it's increasing and there's, there's the train of thought that we're hearing from the city is that this is going to have more turnover in the parking spots.

It's going to be better for businesses because more people will be able to come in in other spots.

People won't be able to just park there over the weekend and just stay there over the weekend and take up spots from everybody else.

But there is kind of this, this, you know, read between lines or look behind the curtain situation where advocates who are very transit forward, walkability forward, have been advocating for the for this for a while and at the time of implementation of, making parking spaces more digital and less quarter driven, those advocates were yearning for this increased hours and, an increase over the weekend because to them, it has this idea where you may think it's a barrier to parking.

Parking becomes a barrier.

So you might think, okay, well, I got to worry about parking for only this amount of time.

It's going to cost more money.

Maybe I'll walk there.

Maybe I'll take a train in to walk there.

Maybe I'll take a bus.

Maybe I'll take an Uber.

So it is part of this being more walkability, transit forward ideology.

If you're a business owner, you might also worry maybe they just won't come.

Exactly.

I mean, I think there's this idea where people are thinking, you know, why would I go at all if I can just have it as convenient as possible?

And there is, you know, Zorya Johnson of reporters is currently covering, kind of a, a battle between residents and business owners in Ohio City where they're talking about putting in dedicated bus lanes, and getting rid of valet parking on West 20 on West 25th Street in Ohio City.

So it just kind of tie in this, you know, what benefits business owners versus what benefits people who, want to just not worry about cars so much.

All right.

Cleveland City Council members are not yet sold on the Bibb administration's pedal to the metal approach to shut down Burke Lakefront Airport.

Mayor Justin Bieber said he wants Burke shuttered by 2029.

Council wants to know what would cover the 400 plus acres.

Who would benefit?

They got a lot of questions.

Gabe Council held the first of many committee meetings on this.

And the through line on that is how all these big plans for downtown translate to helping the city's residents and neighborhoods.

Yeah.

I mean, I feel like every mayoral election we have in Cleveland, the big topic of discussion is what's going to happen to Burke, because it's a it's an airport that is not used widely.

It's certainly not used as widely as Hopkins is.

I've never used it in my entire life of living in the region.

And people wonder, could that space be better utilized for businesses, for green space?

And it's, you know, imagine in a city that lacks access to the lake and a beautiful lake and you'd think, you know, a lot of people are yearning for ways to get to that lake.

This seems to a lot of people like the mayor an obvious way to get access to the lake.

But a lot of people on council are saying, well, this isn't really helping my residents on a day to day basis.

It's going to cost a lot of money to to repair it, to, to turn it into whatever needs turn into.

And the council people are not really seeing the immediate benefit to what happens to them.

Plus, we can get folks in downtown for years, council people have been saying, well, there's been such a focus on downtown developing downtown.

What about our neighborhoods?

Yeah, I I've lived in Cleveland my entire life as well.

Northeastern Ohio never used or never.

Yeah.

Kelly, have you do you fly out of Burke all the time?

Can't say I have.

No.

And if you listen, last week we talked to Karen.

She lands her private jet here when she goes, the party change.

But, but that is kind of the debate is like, why do you need an airport?

It's not.

That itself doesn't serve the residents of Cleveland.

I was surprised during that, that hearing and there going to be several more, and in fact, we are going to be doing a community tour.

And right now, the tentative date is March 4th.

We're going to be having it at the concourse at the airport with the stakeholders.

Stephanie Haney will lead a conversation we want the public involved in that will give you that information soon.

But you can come and weigh in.

Should it be an airport, what else should it be?

You know, and talk a little bit about this debate that's happening.

But one of the things I was surprised about was that Mike Polasek, the longtime council member, the dean of Cleveland City Council, said, wait a minute.

All these other places, all these problems are happening.

Council has been cut in half.

Our population is down.

The Browns are moving out of downtown, and we have this airport.

Isn't that unique?

Shouldn't we talk about keeping it?

I hadn't really heard that point of view.

It's almost always been people saying, how do we get rid of Burke?

But now you're hearing some folks that say, maybe we need an airport there, maybe it's beneficial.

And I think, yeah, they talk about there's, you know, we have schools that are closing.

Like I said, the Browns are leaving town.

But, you know, they there's people who think that, you know, so what plan six that is show me a plan that benefits neighborhood and the city of Cleveland by birth if we're going away.

So they you know, I think it's not a complete no for plan sick.

But I think it's a how can we make sure that this benefits people who aren't going to be downtown?

Is it going to be a place that people in Collinwood, which he oversees, can utilize the lakefront in that kind of way?

Are there going to be more businesses popping up that they can utilize?

Are they're going to create jobs that people in his neighborhood can walk to, drive to transit, to, in order to work.

So I think, you know, there's definitely, you know, there needs to be more depth to what the mayor wants to satisfy council.

And do you think also at play here is that the mayor, when he wants to get things done, often does.

And when we talked about tax increment financing districts, the council was like, wait a minute, we want more say.

And who benefits from those?

When it came to the Browns moving out of downtown, there was a fight put up by the city, and then eventually the city agreed and said, give a $100 million and we're going to drop our lawsuit, Council said, wait a minute.

We weren't consulted on that.

Right.

So this might be another thing where you're seeing these headlines where the mayor said not only to want to close it, but I want to close it within four years.

And council saying, hang on a second.

Yeah, maybe we should be able to weigh in.

Yeah.

And I think that that's something we've seen a lot in the last four years of just in his tenure with council, this kind of, lack of almost camaraderie or this like almost a tussle of, you know, who's in who's really in charge of the city.

Is it council?

Is it mayor?

Property appraisals in 16 Ohio counties will be delayed for a year, including Cuyahoga, Tioga Lake and Stark.

Karen Sarah Donaldson did some reporting on that.

One reason given for the delay is that appraisers are stretched thin.

Why are they stretched thin?

Well, nearly half the counties and the state have been doing reappraisal at the same time within the six year cycle.

So that means that these appraisers are trying to get to a lot of different areas at the same time.

And so this changes the schedule and gives them a little bit more breathing room.

And the argument is that there's more efficiency in this, that it's, you know, you slow down a little bit so you have more opportunity to catch things as they go through.

And they also want to look at the sales ratio studies to make sure that they're being as accurate as possible.

In terms of reevaluation, I can help them out.

And you don't have to come out and look at my house.

It the value went down by like half.

So for tax purposes, yeah, I was just going to say you want that for tax purposes, but not if you're trying to sell it.

On another sell.

I've been in that house forever.

But, let's also ask about property taxes are the big deal.

It's the valuations have gone up, taxes have gone up.

There's been all kinds of howling about what people are paying, and lawmakers have been putting together measures to try to deal with that.

Well, this delay in appraisal will give them a little bit of time.

Is there is there something that's that's, hand in glove in this?

Well, I mean, I think along with the bills that passed at the end of last year, that would Republican sponsors say lower property taxes.

And there were there were some Democrats who voted as well for these bills.

These are bills that did some things that arguably will give a property tax break for many Ohioans.

But when it comes to really big tax relief, these bills won't do that.

Now, there's a couple of bills that are out there.

There's more than 50 bills that deal with property taxes that lawmakers have proposed that are in the pipeline at some point.

Two of them came from not only the there's been two big reports recommending changes to property tax law.

And both of these were in both of those reports, a, circuit breaker, which would trigger a property tax cut at a certain level of a household's income, and then also an expansion of the homestead tax exemption.

Those have been out there for a while, and lawmakers haven't done anything with those.

Those could potentially involve the state coming in and putting some money toward this to help schools and other entities that get property taxes be held harmless.

So that's going to be the question is, what is the state willing to put into this to try to lower property taxes for people?

Because people are struggling and suffering and you've still got this abolish the property tax proposal that's out there.

You got volunteers who are trying to get that onto the ballot this fall.

It's a volunteer effort.

But, you know, you've got a lot of people who are angry.

Monday on The Sound of Ideas on 89 seven Wksu.

We'll discuss in depth the City of Cleveland's new on street parking rates and enforcement.

It's a conversation that was preempted earlier this week by the president's comments from the World Economic Forum.

So tune in Monday to hear what you missed.

I'm Mike McIntyre.

Thank you for watching.

And stay safe.