>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO In FOCUS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

>> Gene: THIS WEEK ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS - HOW THE SUPREME COURT'S REVERSAL OF ROE VS. WADE COULD AFFECT VOTER TURNOUT AND IMPACT THE RACE FOR GOVERNOR.

PLUS -- >> Garrett: THEIR NARRATIVE ABOUT THE 2ND AMENDMENT IS NOT TRUE.

NONE OF IT IS.

IT'S ABOUT PROMOTING GUN SALES.

>> Gene: A NEW MEXICO SPORTSMAN SAYS IT'S TIME FOR HIS FELLOW GUN OWNERS TO STOP ALLOWING LOBBYISTS TO DISTORT THEIR BELIEFS.

NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS STARTS NOW.

>> Gene: THANKS FOR JOINING US THIS WEEK.

I'M YOUR HOST, GENE GRANT.

NEWLY PUBLISHED RESEARCH SHOWS 2021'S RECORD-BREAKING HEATWAVE IN THE SOUTHWEST CONTRIBUTED TO THE HISTORIC DROUGHT CONDITIONS, AND VICE-VERSA.

SCIENTISTS INVOLVED IN THE STUDY SAY THIS PROVES A CONNECTION BETWEEN THE TWO TYPES OF CLIMATE INCIDENTS SOMETHING THAT HAD BEEN LARGELY HYPOTHETICAL TO THIS POINT.

NOW, WE RE GOING TO GET INTO THE SPECIFICS OF THAT RESEARCH IN THE SECOND HALF OF THE SHOW.

AND I LL ASK OUR LINE OPINION PANELISTS ABOUT THE POTENTIAL CONSEQUENCES OF A RECENT SUPREME COURT DECISION LIMITING EPA AUTHORITY.

IN LESS THAN 15 MINUTES, OUR LAND EXECUTIVE PRODUCER LAURA PASKUS GETS SOME PERSPECTIVE ON ANOTHER ISSUE RECENTLY TAKEN UP BY THE COURTS, GUN RIGHTS.

WE LL HEAR FROM AN AVID NEW MEXICO SPORTSMAN AND HUNTER WHO SAYS NATIONAL LOBBYING GROUPS ARE LYING AND SKEWING THE VIEWS OF GUN OWNERS LIKE HIM.

BUT WE BEGIN THIS WEEK S SHOW WITH THE SUPREME COURT'S FLASHPOINT DECISION ON ABORTION.

NOW, TWO WEEKS AGO WE SPOKE TO AN ACLU ATTORNEY WHO EXPLAINED THE IMPACTS OF EXECUTIVE ACTION FROM GOVERNOR MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM.

THAT ACTION IS MEANT TO PROTECT WOMEN TRAVELING FROM OUT OF STATE FOR REPRODUCTIVE CARE HERE IN NEW MEXICO, AND THE DOCTORS WHO TREAT THEM.

NOW WE'RE GOING TO EXPLORE THE POLITICAL IMPLICATIONS OF THAT ORDER, AND HOW THIS ISSUE COULD IMPACT THE RACE FOR GOVERNOR.

LET'S GET TO THE LINE.

>> Gene: WE RE HAPPY TO HAVE THE LINE OPINION PANEL BACK WITH US.

WE HAVE A GREAT PANEL THIS WEEK.

FIRST, IT S ATTORNEY SOPHIE MARTIN.

WELCOME TO SOPHIE, OF COURSE.

IT'S ALWAYS GREAT TO SEE AND HEAR FROM MICHAEL BIRD, A PUBLIC HEALTH CONSULTANT AND FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE AMERICAN PUBLIC HEALTH ASSOCIATION.

YOU MIGHT NOT HAVE KNOWN THAT.

AND MERRITT ALLEN FROM VOX OPTIMA PUBLIC RELATIONS.

GLAD TO HAVE ALL OF YOU WITH US TODAY.

NOW, THERE HAVE BEEN SOME SIGNIFICANT DEVELOPMENTS IN THE GOVERNOR S RACE OVER THE LAST FEW WEEKS, LIKE NEW ADS FROM GOVERNOR MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM AND REPUBLICAN NOMINEE MARK RONCHETTI, AND A FRESH LOOK AT WHO S LEADING FUNDRAISING.

WE LL GET INTO ALL THOSE THINGS.

BUT I WANT TO START WITH THE IMPACT OF A LEADING SOCIAL ISSUE RIGHT NOW, AS YOU KNOW, ABORTION.

UNLIKE SOME STATES, THE PROCEDURE IS STILL LEGAL AND AVAILABLE IN NEW MEXICO, FOR NOW.

WITH THAT IN MIND, SOPHIE, LET ME START WITH YOU, DO YOU THINK THE ISSUE WILL DRIVE TURNOUT THE WAY DEMOCRATS ARE HOPING?

AND SOPH, I'M SEEING THIS ALL OVER FACEBOOK, THAT THIS IS THE ONE ISSUE THAT'S GOING TO TURNOUT DEMOCRATS LIKE CRAZY.

IS THAT ACTUALLY THE CASE HERE?

>> Sophie: I THINK ACTUALLY THAT IT WILL DRIVE TURNOUT, ESPECIALLY TO THE EXTENT THAT THE GOVERNOR CAN MAKE CLEAR -- WELL, FIRST OF ALL, I THINK IT'S GOING TO DRIVE TURNOUT IN GENERAL, BECAUSE OUR COMMUNITIES ARE VERY FOCUSED ON POLITICAL ISSUES, ON THE OUTCOMES OF ELECTIONS AND THAT THOSE OUTCOMES HAVE REAL MEANING.

AND ALSO, I THINK THERE'S BEEN A REAL TURN TOWARDS, AT LEAST IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY, A GREATER AWARENESS AMONGST THE ELECTORATE THAT LOCAL POLITICS MATTER, THAT LOCAL DECISIONS ESPECIALLY WITH THE SUPREME COURT AND THE DOBBS OPINION ARE TURNING THE QUESTION OF ABORTION BACK TO THE STATES, LOCAL ELECTIONS ARE GOING TO BE EVEN MORE MEANINGFUL IN THE COMING YEARS.

SO YEAH, I DO THINK IT WILL TURN OUT VOTERS FOR THE DEMOCRATS, AND MAY ALSO FOR REPUBLICANS AS WELL.

THERE'S SOME POLLING THAT SUGGESTED THAT IT MIGHT BE MORE MEANINGFUL, MORE POWERFUL FOR DEMOCRATS.

BUT THIS IS ALL GOING TO HINGE, I THINK, ON THE GOVERNOR'S ABILITY AND HER FOCUS ON REALLY DEMONSTRATING THAT THE PROTECTIONS THAT SHE'S BEEN PUTTING IN PLACE OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF WEEKS FOR DOCTORS, FOR PATIENTS, FOR INDIVIDUALS COMING IN FROM OTHER STATES, YOU KNOW, TO SECURE ABORTION SERVICES HERE, THAT THESE ALL RIDE ON, AT THIS MOMENT, MANY OF THEM, ON GOVERNOR ACTIONS, ON ADMINISTRATIVE ACTIONS.

AND ARE NOT NECESSARILY CEMENTED IN OUR STATE LAWS.

AND SO YOU GET A NEW GOVERNOR, YOU COULD GET A TOTALLY DIFFERENT LANDSCAPE IN TERMS OF SOME OF THESE PROTECTIONS.

>> Gene: GOOD POINT THERE.

MERRITT, INTERESTING POINT MADE BY SOPHIE, BUT I HAVE TO ASK, I'M A LITTLE BIT CURIOUS, IN MANY WAYS, IT'S A LONG WAY FROM JULY TO NOVEMBER, BUT IT'S SHORT, IF YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN HERE, IN POLITICAL TERMS.

CAN SHE KEEP THIS GOING, AND OTHERS KEEP THIS GOING ALL THE WAY TO NOVEMBER?

AND, IN FACT, DOES IT PERHAPS, AS SOPHIE MENTIONED, HELP REPUBLICANS IN SOME WAY, AS WELL?

>> Merritt: WELL, I THINK IT'S INTERESTING THAT THIS IS KIND OF COMING TO THE FOREFRONT IN THE GOVERNOR'S RACE, BECAUSE AS SOPHIE POINTED OUT, FOR LOCAL ELECTIONS, IT'S MUCH MORE IMPACTFUL IN LEGISLATIVE RACES, BECAUSE THE GOVERNOR DOES NOT -- IT'S NOT THE GOVERNOR WHO WRITES WITH A PEN, A SINGLE PEN STROKE, ABORTION SHALL BE LEGAL OR ILLEGAL IN THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO.

THAT WOULD BE THE LEGISLATURE.

AND SO THESE ADS WE'RE SEEING THAT THE GOVERNOR, THE NEXT GOVERNOR WILL HAVE A SAY IN ABORTION IN NEW MEXICO, I THINK THAT'S TERRIBLY MISLEADING IN ONE OF THESE THIRD-PARTY ATTACK ADS.

IT'S ACTUALLY THE LEGISLATURE.

AND AS TRENDS SHOW, I DON'T SEE THE LEGISLATURE MOVING TO ANY SORT OF REPUBLICAN MAJORITY.

SO I DON'T THINK WE'RE IN ANY PARTICULAR DANGER IN NEW MEXICO OF ABORTION RIGHTS BEING SEVERELY DIMINISHED.

I JUST DON'T SEE THAT HAPPENING.

>> Gene: HOW ABOUT MR. RONCHETTI, MERRITT?

IS THIS SOMETHING HE CAN THROW OVER HIS HIP, SO TO SPEAK?

CAN HE GET OUT FROM UNDER THIS?

BECAUSE WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT THIS IN A SECOND, HE'S ACTUALLY OPENED HIS MOUTH ON THIS A COUPLE OF TIMES, AND NOW HE'S TRYING TO GET OUT FROM UNDER SOME THINGS NOW THAT HE'S GETTING SOME ATTACK ADS.

>> Merritt: HE'S VERY GOOD AT BEING VERY EMPHATIC ABOUT THE POINT HE WANTS TO MAKE RIGHT NOW, AND THE POINT HE WANTS TO MAKE RIGHT NOW IS SOME COMMON SENSE LIMITATIONS ON THE PROCEDURE.

YOU KNOW, NO RESTRICTIONS UP TO 15 WEEKS, AND THEN MEDICALLY NECESSARY OR IN CASES OF RAPE OR INCEST.

I THINK 80 PERCENT OF VOTERS WOULD GO ALONG WITH THAT.

OF COURSE, IT'S A VERY COMMON SENSE MIDDLE OF THE ROAD APPROACH.

IN NEW MEXICO, WE HAVE NO RESTRICTIONS WHATSOEVER, SO THAT WOULD BE A THROTTLING BACK OF SOME ACCESS, BUT I THINK VERY SIGNIFICANTLY, IT WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, MAYBE A HANDFUL OF CASES PERFORMED EACH YEAR IN NEW MEXICO.

I WOULD SAY LESS THAN TEN.

SO I DON'T SEE THAT AS A SIGNIFICANT REDUCTION IN ACCESS.

BUT, YOU KNOW, IT'S TO THE POINT, HE IS A VERY PERSUASIVE COMMUNICATOR AND IS ABLE TO MAKE VERY EMPHATIC POINTS BASED ON THE TALKING POINT HE WANTS TO GET ACROSS AT THE MOMENT.

>> Gene: MICHAEL, SOPHIE MENTIONED, AND I MENTIONED IN THE GOVERNOR'S EXECUTIVE ACTION ON ABORTION RIGHTS AT THE TOP OF THE SHOW, IT PROTECTS WOMEN FROM PROSECUTION IF THEY COME TO NEW MEXICO FOR REPRODUCTIVE CARE.

THIS IS CLEARLY AN ISSUE THE GOVERNOR CARES ABOUT, AS SOPHIE ARTICULATED WELL, AND THIS ACTION HAS A PRACTICAL IMPACT.

COULD IT HAVE A POLITICAL ONE, TOO, PROOF THAT SHE'S COMMITTED TO THIS ISSUE?

DOES THIS FIRM HER UP WITH THE BASE AND ANYBODY ELSE THAT'S LOOKING TO VOTE FOR HER?

>> Michael: WELL, I THINK IT DOES FOR HER, AND THAT'S ALL PART OF, YOU KNOW, SORT OF, I THINK, THE STATE LEGISLATURE, AS WELL, BECAUSE A YEAR AGO LINDA LOPEZ, THE STATE SENATOR, ALREADY WAS SPONSORING SOME LEGISLATION TO DECRIMINALIZE ABORTION SO THAT THERE WOULD NOT BE -- SO THAT PROVIDERS WOULD NOT BE ADVERSELY IMPACTED BY PROVIDING ABORTIONS OR ABORTION SERVICES.

SO I THINK THAT'S ONE POINT.

I THINK THE OTHER POINT IS, NEW MEXICO, AS WE ALL KNOW, UNFORTUNATELY, IS A POOR STATE.

SO OUR POVERTY RATES HIGH, AND THAT HAS IMPLICATIONS ACROSS THE BOARD IN TERMS OF HEALTH CARE, IN TERMS OF EDUCATION AND EVERYTHING ELSE.

AND WE ARE A MINORITY-MAJORITY STATE, AND SO THAT I THINK CLEARLY WEIGHS INTO IT, BECAUSE THE OVERTURN BY THE SUPREME COURT OF ACCESS AND AVAILABILITY TO ABORTION REALLY SIGNIFICANTLY IMPACTS WOMEN OF COLOR AND POOR WOMEN.

AND SO I THINK THAT THOSE COMMUNITIES, THOSE POPULATIONS, THEY'VE HAD ACCESS TO IT HERE IN NEW MEXICO, AND SO IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN JUST TAKE -- ONCE SOMEBODY HAS IT, IT'S MORE DIFFICULT TO TAKE IT AWAY.

WE'LL HAVE TO SEE HOW THIS PLAYS OUT IN TERMS OF THE SUPREME COURT GOING FORWARD.

>> Gene: THAT'S RIGHT.

SOPHIE, INTERESTINGLY, THERE'S A BIT OF A TWITTER WAR ERUPTING OVER A DIFFERENT AD.

THERE'S THE ONE AGAINST MR. RONCHETTI WHERE HE SAYS HE'S OPPOSED TO ABORTION AT ALL STAGES, WHICH HE'S FIGHTING BACK AS MERRITT JUST POINTED OUT, BUT THIS ONE MR. RONCHETTI CALLS EMBARRASSINGLY FAKE.

IT FEATURES A PORTALES NURSE WHO SAYS SHE COULDN'T HAVE GRADUATED WITHOUT THE GOVERNOR'S OPPORTUNITY SCHOLARSHIP.

I'LL LET YOU GET INTO SOME OF THE DETAILS IF YOU'D LIKE TO, BUT ESSENTIALLY THERE WAS CONFUSION OVER WHEN THE NURSE WAS ACTUALLY IN SCHOOL VERSUS WHEN THE SCHOLARSHIP WAS FIRST AVAILABLE.

BUT THE FACT IS, SHE RECEIVED SOME MONEY AND SHE GRADUATED.

IS THIS SOMETHING VOTERS WILL NOTICE OR REMEMBER, OR IS THIS JUST ONE OF THOSE TECHNICAL LITTLE BLIPS IN THE ROAD HERE, JUST GROPING FOR AN AD?

>> Sophie: I FRANKLY DON'T THINK IT IS SOMETHING THAT VOTERS WILL REMEMBER, AT LEAST NOT IN A MEANINGFUL WAY.

I DO THINK THAT MR. RONCHETTI'S SUPPORTERS MAY CONTINUE TO KIND OF LATCH ONTO IT AND USE IT AS SORT OF A REMINDER OF THEIR OWN MOTIVATION, OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, BUT I DON'T THINK THAT FOR THE MOST PART DEMOCRATIC VOTERS ARE LIKELY TO CARE VERY MUCH ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR HE SAID/SHE SAID.

WE DO SEE THERE'S AT LEAST ONE REPORTER WHO IS SAYING, WELL, ACTUALLY, I THINK THAT THE DETAILS IN THIS AD ARE ACCURATE, BUT THAT'S NOT GOING TO MATTER TO RONCHETTI SUPPORTERS.

SO, YOU KNOW, THIS KIND OF SQUABBLING MIGHT SERVE AT SOME POINT TO DIMINISH THE DRIVE FOR PARTICULAR VOTERS WHO ARE LIKE ON THE FENCE TO GO IN AND VOTE, BUT I THINK SO FAR FROM THE ELECTION, THIS IS JUST -- IT'S SOMETHING TO KEEP THEIR NAMES IN THE NEWS, SOMETHING TO SQUABBLE OVER.

I DON'T THINK IT'S GOING TO HAVE A BIG IMPACT.

>> Gene: GOOD POINT THERE.

MERRITT, I'VE GOT TO GET THIS IN.

FUNDRAISING WILL BE A MAJOR FACTOR IN THIS RACE, NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.

IN THE LATEST REPORT, MR. RONCHETTI PULLED IN ABOUT $450,000 MORE THAN THE GOVERNOR IN THAT LAST REPORTING PERIOD.

BUT THE GOVERNOR, OF COURSE, STILL HAS A MAJOR CASH ADVANTAGE.

WILL MR. RONCHETTI HAVE TO MAKE UP THAT GAP TO COMPETE IN NOVEMBER?

I MEAN, IT'S ABOUT A MIL.

THAT'S A LOT OF MONEY.

IT COULD BUY A LOT OF TV IN THE GAP.

WHAT'S YOUR SENSE OF THAT?

>> Merritt: I THINK HE WILL, AND I ALSO THINK HE CAN.

HIS TEAM IS HIGHLY SUCCESSFUL AT FUNDRAISING.

WE SAW THIS IN SUSANA MARTINEZ'S TWO RACES.

I DON'T THINK MONEY IS GOING TO BE A PROBLEM FOR MARK RONCHETTI.

I THINK THE FLAVOR OF THIS RACE IS GOING TO BE A RACE TO THE CENTER SHOWING THAT THE MOST POPULAR ISSUES, JOBS, THE ECONOMY, TAXES, ALL THE THINGS THAT NEW MEXICANS CARE THE MOST ABOUT, WHILE DISPARAGING THE OTHER CANDIDATE.

SO IT'S GOING TO BE A NEGATIVE SLUG-FEST, A RACE TO THE MIDDLE.

I MEAN, IF YOU HAD ASKED MARK RONCHETTI HOW HE FELT ABOUT ABORTION IN MARCH AT THE HEIGHT OF A HIGHLY PARTISAN PRIMARY, WE WOULD HAVE NEVER HEARD WHAT WE'RE HEARING RIGHT NOW.

IF YOU HAD ASKED MICHELLE LUJAN-GRISHAM IN THE DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY IN 2018 WHAT SHE THOUGHT ABOUT CUTTING TAXES, NO, SHE WOULD HAVE NEVER GONE FOR A TAX CUT AS SHE DID IN THE 2022 LEGISLATIVE SESSION.

SO BOTH CANDIDATES HAVE MOVED TO THE CENTER.

IT'S GOING TO BE VERY MODERATE POLITICALLY ON ISSUES, BUT VERY NASTY PERSONALLY.

>> Gene: HEY, MICHAEL, IN THE MONEY CHASE HERE, MR. RONCHETTI'S BIG DONORS WERE FARMERS, RANCHERS, AND ENERGY EXECUTIVES.

NO BIG SURPRISE THERE.

BUT THE GOVERNOR GOT BIG DONATIONS FROM THE NEW MEXICO TRIBAL GOVERNMENTS, AND A POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE AFFILIATED WITH PNM EMPLOYEES.

VERY INTERESTING THERE.

DOES THAT SAY ANYTHING TO YOU, WHO'S DONATING TO WHO AND WHY?

>> Michael: WELL, FOR ME, IT'S NO SURPRISE.

IT'S KIND OF -- THAT'S HOW THINGS IN NEW MEXICO TEND TO ALIGN ANYWAY IN TERMS OF WHO DO THOSE INTERESTS REPRESENT ON BOTH SIDES.

SO I'M NOT SURPRISED THAT THE TRIBES ARE LINING UP.

BUT I'M GLAD TRIBES ARE MORE ENGAGED, AND HAVE BEEN INCREASINGLY SO.

IF WE'VE FORGOTTEN ABOUT GARY JOHNSON AND INDIAN GAMING, IT WAS -- IT'S A VERY QUICK HISTORY.

>> Gene: PLEASE.

>> Michael: THE TRIBES WENT TO BRUCE KING, WHO WAS THE INCUMBENT GOVERNOR, DEMOCRAT, AND ASKED FOR HIS SUPPORT FOR GAMING.

HE REFUSED TO ACT ON IT.

AND I'M SURE HIS ASSUMPTION WAS, WELL, WHAT ARE THE TRIBES GOING TO DO?

ARE THEY GOING TO GO SUPPORT THE REPUBLICAN, JOHNSON?

THEY DID.

GUESS WHAT?

HE WON.

SO I THINK THERE'S GROWING AND MUCH NEEDED IN THIS STATE GREATER VISIBILITY AND ECONOMIC AND POLITICAL INFLUENCE THAT TRIBES DID NOT HAVE PRIOR TO GAMING, AND THAT'S IMPORTANT FOR NEW MEXICO BECAUSE THE POPULATION IN THE COMMUNITY THAT CONTINUES TO BE MARGINALIZED BY ANY MEASURE HISTORICALLY, AND TO THIS DAY, ARE NATIVE POPULATIONS.

>> Gene: GOOD POINTS THERE.

THANK YOU TO OUR LINE OPINION PANELISTS.

WE'LL SEE YOU ALL BACK AROUND THE VIRTUAL ROUNDTABLE IN A LITTLE OVER TEN MINUTES TO TALK ABOUT THAT NEW RESEARCH CONNECTING HEAT WAVES AND DROUGHT.

>> Tony: SO MANY TIMES, NATIVE PEOPLE WEREN'T COMFORTABLE IN MUSEUMS, OR THINGS WERE PRESENTED INACCURATELY, OR KIND OF LIKE IN THIS PANNED INDIAN VOICE, NOT RECOGNIZING THE VAST DIFFERENCES BETWEEN MANY OF THE DIFFERENT PEOPLE.

>> Gene: HERE IN NEW MEXICO, ALMOST SIXTY PERCENT OF HOMES HAVE AT LEAST ONE GUN.

SOME OF THOSE ARE FOR HUNTING, PERSONAL SECURITY, ALL DIFFERENT REASONS.

NOW, IN THE FACE OF AMERICA'S GROWING GUN VIOLENCE, PARTICULARLY AGAINST CHILDREN, OUR LAND EXECUTIVE PRODUCER LAURA PASKUS SITS DOWN WITH ONE NEW MEXICO SPORTSMAN WHO SAYS GUN OWNERS NEED TO PUSH BACK AGAINST THE NATIONAL RIFLE ASSOCIATION'S RHETORIC ABOUT THE SECOND AMENDMENT.

>> Laura: HI, GARRETT.

THANKS FOR JOINING ME.

>> Garrett: THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> Laura: I KNOW YOU ARE A SPORTSMAN.

WE'VE TALKED MANY TIMES OVER THE YEARS ABOUT HUNTING AND FISHING ISSUES.

I'D LIKE TO TALK TODAY ABOUT THE ROLE THAT GUNS HAVE PLAYED IN YOUR LIFE.

>> Garrett: YEAH.

I MEAN, MY GRANDFATHER WAS A BIG HUNTER, AND I INHERITED HIS GUNS.

AND MY FATHER WAS A WORLD WAR II VET.

HE LIBERATED BUCHENWALD AND DACHAU.

HE WAS A VERY SERIOUS HUNTER AND VERY PASSIONATE HUNTER, AND HE PASSED AWAY AND I HAVE HIS GUNS.

SO I WAS RAISED IN A FAMILY OF GUNS.

IT WAS A BIG PART OF MY LIFE, AND STILL IS IN MANY WAYS, A BIG PART OF MY LIFE.

I'M STILL A BIG HUNTER, AND FEED MY FAMILY WITH ELK AND DEER AND OTHER GAME MEAT.

SO, YEAH, IT'S PART OF WHO I AM, FOR SURE.

>> Laura: YOU RECENTLY WROTE AN OP-ED TITLED: GUN OWNERS MUST SPEAK UP.

WHAT'S GOING ON THERE?

>> Garrett: SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK I HAD AN EPIPHANY IN THAT IF THIS CONVERSATION IS GOING TO CHANGE AND WE'RE GOING TO HAVE REAL SUBSTANTIVE REFORM, THAT GUN OWNERS ARE GOING TO HAVE TO BE THE ONES WHO ARE SPEAKING UP IN FAVOR OF GUN REFORM.

AND I THINK THE RECENT EVENTS, ESPECIALLY, WERE ESPECIALLY HORRIFYING AND TROUBLING, AND THE EPIPHANY THAT I HAD WAS THAT I, AS A GUN OWNER, WAS COMPLICIT IN THE BLOODSHED BY BEING SILENT.

AND I FELT AS THOUGH IT'S REALLY MY JOB AS A COMMUNITY MEMBER TO SPEAK UP AND SAY, WAIT A MINUTE, I OWN GUNS, BUT WE NEED TO REALLY HAVE SOME MAJOR CHANGES.

GUNS ARE TOO EASY TO GET.

THERE'S TOO MANY OF THEM.

AND THERE IS A MANIA OUT THERE OF GUN USE AND GUN CULTURE THAT NEEDS TO CHANGE.

AND THE NRA, OF COURSE, IS ONE OF THE BIGGEST COMPLICIT MEMBERS OF THIS CONVERSATION, AND SO MUCH BLOODSHED IS RESPONSIBLE -- IT'S ON THEIR HANDS.

BUT ALSO WAL-MART.

ALSO CABELA'S.

ALSO SPORTSMANS WAREHOUSE.

ALSO EVERY SINGLE GUN SHOP.

BUT ALSO EVERY SINGLE GUN OWNER.

AND IT'S IMPORTANT AS A FAMILY MEMBER, AS A COMMUNITY MEMBER, FOR ME TO SAY I'M ALL IN ON GUN REFORM.

>> Laura: IN THAT OP-ED, YOU WROTE THAT THE NATIONAL RIFLE ASSOCIATION HAS DONE AN INCREDIBLE JOB GAS-LIGHTING GUN OWNERS LIKE ME WITH ITS POLISHED PROPAGANDA.

WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT?

>> Garrett: EVER SINCE I WAS A LITTLE BOY, YOU KNOW, MY DAD WAS AN NRA MEMBER, AND WE HAD THE NRA MAGAZINES ON ALL OF OUR TABLES, AND OF COURSE I CONSUMED THAT AS A LITTLE BOY, AND THEIR PROPAGANDA IS VERY POLISHED AND VERY PASSIONATE.

THEIR IMAGERY IS VERY PASSIONATE.

YOU KNOW, CHARLTON HESTON HOLDING UP THE GUN; FROM MY DEAD HANDS, OR WHATEVER HE SAID.

SO I WAS A VICTIM OF THAT, YOU KNOW, PROPAGANDA AND GAS-LIGHTING AS A YOUNG BOY, AND BELIEVED IN THE SECOND AMENDMENT'S NO WAY, NO COMPROMISE, NO GIVE.

BUT IT WAS ALL A BUNCH OF, EXCUSE ME FRENCH.

IT REALLY IS, AND IT'S FALSE.

THEIR NARRATIVE IS FALSE.

THEIR NARRATIVE ABOUT THE SECOND AMENDMENT IS NOT TRUE.

NONE OF IT IS.

IT'S ABOUT PROMOTING GUN SALES, WHICH IS A MULTI-BILLION DOLLAR INDUSTRY IN THE U.S. AND IT'S ABOUT SHAREHOLDER MONEY.

THAT'S WHAT IT'S ABOUT, AND THEY USE SPORTSMEN ALSO AS THEIR VOICE, AND I'M NOT GOING TO BE A PART OF THAT.

I WILL NOT BE COMPLICIT IN THAT.

>> Laura: GETTING READY FOR THIS INTERVIEW, I WAS DOING A LITTLE BIT OF RESEARCH ON JUST HOW BIG BUSINESS GUNS ARE IN AMERICA, AND LOOKING AT A PBS NEWSHOUR ANALYSIS, IN 2020, U.S.

GUN MANUFACTURERS MADE 11.1 MILLION FIREARMS, AND THAT'S ALMOST DOUBLE WHAT THEY MADE TEN YEARS EARLIER, AND IT'S JUST A SMALL NUMBER OF COMPANIES.

FEWER THAN TEN COMPANIES CONTROL THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE MARKET FOR PISTOLS AND RIFLES.

AND THIS ANALYSIS ALSO TALKED ABOUT HOW THERE'S BEEN A SHIFT IN HOW GUNS ARE MARKETED MORE TOWARD, YOU KNOW, KIND OF FEAR BASED.

HOME SECURITY, SELF-DEFENSE.

AND THEY POSITED THAT THAT SHIFT IN MARKETING HAS BEEN LINKED TO A DECLINE IN RECREATIONAL USE.

I'M CURIOUS ON YOUR THOUGHTS ON THAT AND WHAT YOU'VE SEEN IN NEW MEXICO.

>> Garrett: YEAH, IT MAKES SENSE.

I WAS IN CABELA'S ACTUALLY A COUPLE OF DAYS AGO, AND I WALKED IN AND THERE WAS A BLACK GUN COFFEE COMPANY STAND RIGHT IN THE ENTRYWAY, AND THEIR LABEL IS AN AK ON THEIR COFFEE.

SO THAT LABELING AND THAT MARKETING AND THAT IMAGINARY NOW IS EVERYWHERE THROUGHOUT SPORTING GOODS STORES AND T-SHIRTS AND EVERYTHING.

AND SO IT'S A CULTURAL ICON, AND IT'S CRAZY THE WAY THAT IT'S BEEN MARKETED AND PERCEIVED AND TWISTED.

ALSO, LIKE THIS WHOLE, YOU KNOW, CONNECTION TO PATRIOTISM.

BEING PATRIOTIC IS BEING COMMUNITY MINDED, RIGHT.

IT'S ABOUT TAKING CARE OF ISSUES THAT AFFECT OUR FAMILIES AND OUR HOMES AND OUR COMMUNITIES.

THAT'S WHAT PATRIOTISM IS.

IT'S NOT ABOUT ME, MINE.

YOU KNOW, OVER-MY-DEAD-BODY SORT OF THING.

I DON'T KNOW WHEN WE STARTED THINKING THAT WAY AS A COUNTRY, BUT IT'S REALLY DANGEROUS STUFF.

>> Laura: I'M CURIOUS IF YOU HAVE A SENSE OF, OR UNDERSTAND WHY AS AMERICANS, AND PARTICULARLY IT SEEMS LIKE AMERICAN MEN, ARE SO SUSCEPTIBLE TO THAT MESSAGING.

>> Garrett: WELL, I MEAN, IF THERE WAS EVER A DEFINITION OF TOXIC MASCULINITY, IT'S THE LONG GUN WITH -- YOU KNOW, THE TACTICAL WEAPON WITH THE MILITARY ATTIRE.

IT'S ABOUT, YOU KNOW, IDENTIFYING AND EMPOWERMENT.

THESE ARE SYMBOLS OF EMPOWERMENT.

I WAS READING SOMEWHERE THAT ONE OF THE GUN COMPANIES, AND I THINK IT WAS DANIEL DEFENSE, WHO PRODUCED THE GUN THAT WAS IN THE UVALDE SHOOTING, THEY HAVE A MAN CARD THAT GOES WITH YOUR PURCHASE.

SO IT IS ABOUT MASCULINITY, IDENTIFYING WITH MASCULINITY.

IT'S REALLY INTERESTING, THE MOST INSECURE MEN I HAVE MET ARE THE MEN -- I WAS OUT IN MALHEUR WITH THE BUNDY STAND-OFF, AND IT'S INSECURE MEN HIDING BEHIND THESE POWERFUL TOOLS.

THERE'S OBVIOUSLY LOTS OF GREAT GUN OWNERS, BUT WE DON'T NEED TO WEAR A GUN ON OUR HIP TO FEEL SECURE, RIGHT.

AND THEY'VE REALLY, THE GUN MANUFACTURERS AND THE NRA HAVE REALLY PLAYED OFF OF THAT.

NOW THEY'RE DOING IT WITH WOMEN, RIGHT, THEY'RE MAKING PINK GUNS.

IT'S REALLY VERY SOPHISTICATED MARKETING.

BUT I THINK THAT OFTENTIMES INSECURE MEN ARE REAL SUSCEPTIBLE TO THIS BECAUSE IT MAKES THEM FEEL EMPOWERED, AND IT'S KIND OF SAD, ACTUALLY.

>> Laura: YEAH, AND IT'S SUCH A DIVISIVE ISSUE, SO I'M CURIOUS, AS A GUN OWNER, WHERE DO WE GO IN TERMS OF GUN REFORM?

WHAT DO WE REALLY NEED TO DO IN THIS COUNTRY RIGHT NOW?

>> Garrett: WELL, WE NEED TO MAKE IT HARD TO BUY A GUN.

IT'S INTERESTING, A LOT OF THE GUN REFORM THAT'S BEING PROPOSED DOESN'T AFFECT YOUR SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHTS AT ALL.

YOU CAN STILL BARE YOUR ARMS, IT'S JUST A LITTLE BIT MORE DIFFICULT TO BUY THAT 15th GUN, RIGHT.

SO I THINK WE NEED TO MAKE GUNS DIFFICULT TO PURCHASE, ALL GUNS.

NOT JUST LONG GUNS, NOT JUST TACTICAL MILITARY STYLE GUNS, BUT ALL GUNS NEED TO BE DIFFICULT TO BUY.

AND I'M OKAY WITH THAT, RIGHT.

LIKE, YOU SHOULD HAVE TO PROVE THAT YOU'RE ABLE TO HANDLE THIS VERY DANGEROUS TOOL.

YOU HAVE TO DO IT WITH A CAR, YOU HAVE TO DO IT WITH PRESCRIPTION DRUGS, YOU HAVE TO DO IT WITH EVERYTHING ELSE, BUT WHY NOT GUNS?

IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE.

REPRODUCTIVE ISSUES, IT'S THE SAME THING, THERE ARE SO MANY LOOPHOLES AND STOPGAPS.

BUT WE DON'T HAVE THAT FOR GUNS, AND THAT MAKES NO SENSE.

THERE NEEDS TO BE A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD.

AND SO I THINK THE MANDATORY BACKGROUND CHECKS MAKE A TON OF SENSE.

THERE'S SOME QUICK AND SIMPLE THINGS THAT WE CAN DO.

I THINK THIS NEW FEDERAL LEGISLATION -- OF COURSE, IT'S NOT SO SUBSTANTIVE, BUT IT'S A GREAT START.

IT'S A TURNING POINT.

AND SO I WOULD LIKE TO SEE A MANDATORY IN-PERSON GUN SAFETY CLASS FOR FIRST-TIME GUN BUYERS.

YOU HAVE TO PROVE THAT YOU KNOW HOW TO SAFELY HANDLE A GUN.

AND I THINK THAT THAT WOULD ALSO VET PEOPLE THAT SHOULDN'T OWN GUNS, MENTALLY UNSTABLE PEOPLE, AS WELL.

SO THOSE ARE COMMON SENSE THINGS THAT I THINK -- AND IT'S AMAZING, VIRTUALLY ALL OF MY FRIENDS WHO OWN GUNS AGREE WITH ME.

I DON'T KNOW A SINGLE GUN OWNER WHO DOESN'T THINK THIS IS A GOOD IDEA, BECAUSE THEIR FAMILIES ARE THREATENED.

THEIR COMMUNITIES ARE THREATENED, BECAUSE THIS COULD HAPPEN ANYWHERE AT ANY TIME, AND IT HAPPENS EVERY SINGLE DAY.

I DON'T KNOW ANY GUN OWNERS WHO DON'T THINK THAT COMMON SENSE GUN REFORM IS A GOOD THING.

>> Laura: RIGHT.

WELL, THANKS FOR TALKING WITH ME ABOUT THIS, GARRETT.

>> Garrett: YEAH.

IT'S A REALLY IMPORTANT ISSUE, AND AGAIN, I APPEAL TO GUN OWNERS ALL OUT THERE TO WALK AWAY FROM THE NRA, TALK TO YOUR CONGRESSIONAL DELEGATES AND COUNTY COMMISSIONERS AND LEADERSHIP, AND URGE THEM TO SUPPORT ALL THIS.

THE SAFETY OF OUR COMMUNITY DEPENDS UPON IT.

>> Laura: THANK YOU.

>> Diane: AND THEN IT COMES UP INTO MODERN TIMES WHEN I INCLUDED DEB HAALAND, AND SHE WAS VERY GRACIOUS TO DONATE HER DRESS, THE TURQUOISE DRESS THAT SHE WORE WHEN SHE WAS SWORN INTO THE U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

>> Gene: NEW RESEARCH IS AMPLIFYING THE CONVERSATION AROUND DROUGHT AND CLIMATE CHANGE.

A STUDY PUBLISHED IN THE JOURNAL GEOPHYSICAL RESEARCH LETTERS CONFIRMS DROUGHT FEEDS RISING TEMPERATURES DURING HEATWAVES, AND THOSE RISING TEMPERATURES IN TURN FEED DROUGHT.

LET'S BRING THE LINE OPINION PANEL BACK IN TO TALK THROUGH THIS ONE.

THESE SCIENTISTS SAY, THIS IS THE FIRST EVIDENCE OF SOMETHING THAT HAD BEEN HYPOTHETICAL TO THIS POINT.

MICHAEL, WOULD THIS SPARK MORE FOCUS TOWARDS CLIMATE CHANGE AND CLIMATE ACTION?

I MEAN, IT SEEMS EASY TO GRASP WHAT THESE FOLKS ARE TRYING TO TELL US HERE.

WILL THAT LAND IN FOLK'S MINDS IN A WAY THAT WE NEED TO MAKE SOME SERIOUS CHANGE HERE?

>> Michael: ALL I CAN SAY IS, ONE WOULD HOPE SO.

>> Gene: YEAH, I HEAR THAT.

>> Michael: BECAUSE THIS IS A MANIFESTATION OF SOMETHING WE'VE NEVER SEEN, AND THEY POINTED OUT THE FACT THAT THE NUMBER OF DEATHS IN THE SOUTHWEST IN 2021 WERE SIGNIFICANTLY INCREASED.

AND IT'S SOMETHING, AGAIN, IT'S SOMETHING -- WE'VE SEEN DROUGHTS, AND THEY TEND TO, AS THEY REFERENCED, THEY TEND TO BE SLOW IN FORMING.

BUT THESE FLASH, AS THEY REFERENCED, FLASH DROUGHTS THAT COME UP FAST AND ARE EXTREMELY HOTTER AND MORE DEADLY, THERE'S AN INTERSECTION BETWEEN THOSE, YOU KNOW -- WELL, FIRST OF ALL, ALL THINGS ARE CONNECTED IN TERMS OF PEOPLE AND THE ENVIRONMENT AND NATURE AND TEMPERATURES.

IF WE THINK WE'RE HAVING ISSUES HERE, ONE NEEDS TO JUST LOOK AT WHAT'S HAPPENING GLOBALLY, AS WELL, IN TERMS OF AFRICA AND MANY OTHER COUNTRIES, EVEN EUROPEAN COUNTRIES, WHERE THE TEMPERATURES ARE RISING SIGNIFICANTLY.

>> Gene: THAT'S RIGHT.

>> Michael: SO WE'RE ALL A PART OF THAT.

THE GLOBAL ENVIRONMENT IS INTERCONNECTED AND INTERRELATED.

SO ANYTHING THAT HAPPENS SOMEPLACE ELSE DOES IMPACT US, AND WHAT WE DO IMPACTS OTHER PARTS.

SO IT'S WHAT WE NEED TO KNOW.

THE QUESTION, AS YOU REFERENCED, IS ARE WE GOING TO BE MOTIVATED TO ACTION?

ARE WE ACTUALLY GOING TO DO SOMETHING?

WITH THE DECISION THAT THE SUPREME COURT JUST MADE IMPACTING EPA AND THEIR ABILITY TO REGULATE WHAT IS GOING ON, YOU KNOW, THAT DOESN'T HELP THIS AND THAT DOESN'T HELP US.

>> Gene: SOPHIE, LET ME ASK YOU TO PICK UP THIS POINT ON THE SUPREME COURT DECISION THAT SURPRISED A LOT OF FOLKS.

MOVING TO LIMIT THE POWER OF THE EPA'S, AS MICHAEL MENTIONED, AND OTHER REGULATORY AGENCIES.

I SHOULD THROW THAT IN THERE TOO.

DOES THIS OPEN THE DOOR FOR HIGHER POLLUTION RATES WHICH CONTRIBUTE TO CLIMATE CHANGE?

WHAT IS YOUR REACTION TO THAT RULING?

>> Sophie: I THINK IT DOES.

IT DOES SOME VERY STRANGE THINGS TO REGULATION, NOT JUST IN THE ENVIRONMENTAL ARENA.

THIS PARTICULAR DECISION WAS FOCUSED ON THE EPA AND ENVIRONMENTAL CLEAN WATER ACT, ET CETERA, BUT, YOU KNOW, WHAT DOES THE COURT SIGNAL?

I THINK AS WE READ THE TEA LEAVES, IT SIGNALS THERE WILL BE OTHER REGULATORY BODIES WHO MAY NOT -- WHO ALSO MAY NOT HAVE THE KIND OF DIRECTION FROM CONGRESS THAT THE SUPREME COURT IS NOW INDICATING IT WANTS TO DO THEIR JOB.

AND, YOU KNOW, OTHER AGENCIES THAT WE REALLY RELY ON.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IS TOUGH RIGHT NOW AND REFLECTS THE SORT OF, I SAY, THE BIG C CONSERVATISM OF THE CURRENT COURT IS THAT IN OUR CURRENT LEGISLATIVE, YOU KNOW, WITH OUR ESSENTIALLY DEADLOCKED MORE OR LESS IN THE SENATE WITH THE FILIBUSTER, ET CETERA, U.S. SENATE, THE ABILITY TO CONGRESS TO COME BACK AND SAY, YEAH, BY ENACTING THESE PIECES OF LEGISLATION, BY SAYING, EPA WE WANT YOU TO DO THESE THINGS, OTHER REGULATORY AGENCIES, WE WANT YOU TO DO THESE THINGS, WE NEED IT, WE WANT EXPLICITLY, RIGHT, THE THINGS THAT THE COURT HAS CALLED INTO QUESTION.

IN A DEADLOCKED SITUATION LIKE WE SEE RIGHT NOW IN CONGRESS, CAN THOSE CHANGES BE MADE?

I DOUBT IT.

IT CERTAINLY COULD BE VERY DIFFICULT DESPITE THE FACT THAT THESE ACTS TYPICALLY, YOU KNOW, COME WITH BIPARTISAN SUPPORT HISTORICALLY.

THAT IS NOT THE CASE TODAY.

SO, WHAT THE COURT HAS ESSENTIALLY PUT IN PLACE IS, YOU HAVE TO MAKE THESE CHANGES IN A CONTEXT IN WHICH WE MAY NOT BE ABLE TO MAKE THOSE CHANGES.

>> Gene: INTERESTING POINT THERE.

I'LL REMIND THIS SORT OF NOT SORT OF -- IT HITCHED AROUND THE AGENCY'S ABILITY ABILITY TO RELATE GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS.

THINK ABOUT IT FROM WHAT SOPHIE SAID, IF THE CONGRESS IS GOING TO HAVE TO GREEN LIGHT WHETHER THESE FOLKS CAN ACTUALLY ISSUE CAPS OR NOT, THAT IS GOING TO BE A DIFFICULTY, IT WOULD SEEM TO ME, BECAUSE LEGAL ANALYSTS HAVE BEEN POURING OVER THE CONTROVERSIAL DECISION FROM THE COURT.

YOU KNOW, REGARDLESS OF POLITICAL OR SOCIAL IDEOLOGY, IT IS CLEAR THE CONSERVATIVE MAJORITY IS PUTTING THE ONUS ON CONGRESS TO FIND LEGISLATIVE SOLUTIONS TO THESE ISSUES.

DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT STANCE RIGHT THERE THAT FIRST THINGS FIRST?

>> Merritt: I THINK POLITICIZING SCIENCE IS ALWAYS A TERRIBLE IDEA AND I REALLY WOULD ENCOURAGE CLIMATE DENIERS IN MY PARTY TO TAKE THE EMOTION OUT OF IT AND JUST LOOK AT IT FROM A VERY REALISTIC AND PRAGMATIC POINT OF VIEW.

THE CLIMATE ON THIS PLANET HAS ALWAYS BEEN CHANGING.

YOU KNOW, THERE HAVE BEEN ICE AGES.

THERE HAVE BEEN WARMING TRENDS.

THERE HAVE BEEN GREAT DROUGHTS IN THE SOUTHWEST.

SOME OF THE LARGER PREVIOUS CULTURES COLLAPSED BECAUSE OF CLIMATE CHANGE.

CLIMATE CHANGE IS A REAL SCIENTIFIC PROVEN THING.

AND THEN IF YOU LOOK AT THE ENVIRONMENT TODAY WHERE WE -- THE WAR IN UKRAINE IS REALLY UPSETTING GLOBAL GRAIN MARKETS.

THE RUSSIANS ARE STEALING UKRAINE GRAIN AND SMUGGLING IT OUT SELLING IT TO SYRIA.

THAT PUTS OR FARMERS AND U.S.

FARMERS AT GREAT RISK TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW MUCH TO PLANT, WHAT TO PLANT, THEY BOUGHT IT AT HIGHER PRICES BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT THEY WOULD SELL IT AT HIGHER PRICES.

RUSSIANS DUMP A LOT OF GRAIN.

THESE ARE ALL PRAGMATIC REALISTIC BUSINESS SITUATIONS THEN IF YOU HAVE CATASTROPHIC WATER EVENT BECAUSE OF CLIMATE CHANGE WHICH IS A REAL SCIENTIFIC THING, WE HAVE A PROBLEM.

SO, TAKE YOUR KNEE JERK EMOTIONAL REACTION OUT OF IT AND LOOK AT IT PRAGMATICALLY.

THIS IS WHAT WE NEED TO DO.

TO EXPECT CONGRESS TO DO ANYTHING, JUST LOOK AT FOR FIVE DECADES TRYING TO GET SOMETHING DONE ABOUT IMMIGRATION?

THAT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

SO, ARE THEY GOING TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT ENVIRONMENTAL REGULATION, I THINK NOT.

THEY NEED TO ACT QUICKLY ON CYBER SECURITY.

THAT AIN'T GOING TO HAPPEN.

SO, NO, I THINK THAT WAS AGAIN JUDICIAL ACTIVISM THAT WE CERTAINLY DID NOT NEED AT THIS POINT IN TIME.

>> Gene: MICHAEL, CIRCLE BACK TO SOMETHING SOPHIE MENTIONED BECAUSE WHEN YOU REALLY THINK ABOUT IT, THE CHANGING ROLE OF ALL REGULATORY AGENCIES AS A WHOLE IN THIS COUNTRY ARE UP AGAINST IT HERE, BECAUSE IF YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO GO FIND THREE OR FOUR OR FIVE FRIENDLIES IN CONGRESS TO LOBBY FOR YOU, WHAT ARE YOU AS A REGULATORY AGENCY AT THAT POINT?

YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE OUTSIDE OF THAT WHOLE MESS.

YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE LOBBYING CONGRESS PEOPLE -- THAT IS WHAT IT IS GOING TO COME DOWN, WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT, A LOT OF BACK ROOM DEALING AND BACK ROOM CONVERSATIONS.

AM I OFF ON THIS?

I CAN'T SEE IT GOING ANY OTHER WAY.

>> Michael: ONE OF THE AGENCIES THAT IS REFERENCED IN THIS ACTION IS CDC.

>> Gene: YES.

>> Michael: I MEAN, WE ARE NOT DONE WITH COVID-19.

PEOPLE MAY NOT BE WEARING THEIR MASKS AND AS SOMEBODY WHO IS A PUBLIC HEALTH PROFESSIONAL AND JUST COMING OFF OF SEVEN WEEKS WITH AN EXPERIENCE WITH THE NEW COVID VARIANT, LET ME TELL YOU, I MEAN, I DIDN'T HAVE TO GO TO THE HOSPITAL BUT I WOULDN'T WANT ANYBODY I KNOW TO EVER HAVE TO GO THROUGH THAT EXPERIENCE.

OKAY.

AND IF YOU HAMSTRING THESE AGENCIES THAT WERE ESTABLISHED, HAVE BEEN ESTABLISHED, LONGSTANDING HISTORY OF PROTECTING AND RESPONDING TO EMERGENCIES OF VARIOUS KINDS, AND NOW WE ARE GOING TO HAVE, YOU KNOW, NOW WE ARE LOOKING AT THE SUPREME COURT TO PROVIDE GUIDANCE OR WE ARE LOOKING AT THE NATIONAL -- THE CONGRESS, I THINK, YOU KNOW, WE ARE KIND OF IN A DOWNWARD SPIRAL IF WE DON'T ALLOW THOSE AGENCIES THAT WERE ESTABLISHED TO PROTECT US ALL TO FUNCTION.

>> Merritt: WHY ARE WE MUDDYING THE SEPARATION OF POWERS?

>> Gene: THANK YOU.

>> Sophie: WHY DOES THIS COURT NOT SORT OF FOLLOW ITS OWN KIND OF ESTABLISHED IDEOLOGY WHICH IS, WHAT WAS THE INTENTION AT THE TIME OF THE LEGISLATION?

THAT IS THE CONSERVATIVE, HISTORICAL CONSERVATIVE STANCE AND THE INTENT AT THE TIME OF THE LEGISLATE WAS THAT THIS WAS ENOUGH.

THEN, WHY IS IT NOT STILL ENOUGH?

OH, WE HAVE THE BIG QUESTIONS HAPPENING.

>> Gene: SOPHIE, REAL QUICK, I GOT TO GET THIS IN.

WE KNOW NEW MEXICO AND OTHER SOUTHWEST STATES ARE DISPROPORTIONATELY FEELING IMPACT OF CLIMATE CHANGE.

WHERE DO WE FIT INTO THE CONVERSATION ON THE NATIONAL SCALE?

ARE WE GOING TO HAVE TO GET TOGETHER WITH TEXAS, ARIZONA, NEVADA AND PUT ON SOME KIND OF FRONT HERE?

>> Sophie: LET ME THROW CALIFORNIA INTO THAT LIST.

CALIFORNIA HAS SO MUCH MARKET POWER AND I THINK WHAT WE ARE GOING TO BE LOOKING AT, AT LEAST IN THE NEAR TERM, AND THE NEAR TERM IS PROBABLY PRETTY LONG, IS STATE AND LOCAL ACTION TO TRY TO COMBAT CLIMATE CHANGE AND TAKE CARE OF THESE OTHER ISSUES.

AND CALIFORNIA AS WE KNOW IS THE 800 POUND GORILLA THERE.

NEW MEXICO IS FORTUNATE THAT OUR ENVIRONMENTAL GOALS VERY MUCH ARE IN ALIGNMENT WITH CALIFORNIA'S.

SO WE ARE A SMALL STATE WITH RELATIVELY LITTLE POWER, YOU KNOW, LEGISLATIVELY IN THE CONGRESS, BUT WORKING WITH THE OTHER STATES THAT SHARE OUR GOALS AND OUR INTERESTS, I THINK, CAN LEND US A LARGER VOICE.

>> Gene: YOU CAN FEEL IT HAPPENING ALREADY.

MERRITT KNOWS ABOUT THIS WELL, THERE ARE FOLKS IN THE BUSINESS OF COALESCING PEOPLE TOGETHER TO MAKE GROUPS AND ASSOCIATIONS TO PUT A UNITED FRONT ON.

YOU CAN SEE A WHOLE NEW WAVE OF THAT COMING WHEN IT COMES TO THIS WITH THIS DECISION.

IT IS GOING TO BE DIFFICULT.

THANK YOU TO OR LINE OPINION PANEL ONCE AGAIN.

WE'LL BE BACK IN LESS THAN 10 MINUTES TO TALK ABOUT A NEW BALLOT INITIATIVE THAT WOULD TAKE MONEY FROM THE LAND GRANT PERMANENT FUND AND INVEST IT IN EDUCATION.

FIRST, A LOOK INSIDE THE NEWLY REDESIGNED EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM OF INDIAN ARTS AND CULTURE IN SANTA FE.

IT IS CALLED HERE NOW AND ALWAYS AND HIGHLIGHTS INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF THE SOUTHWEST, SHOWCASING NEVER BEFORE SEEN ITEMS AND STATE OF THE ART TECHNOLOGY, BUT IT ALSO SETS THE STANDARD FOR COLLABORATIONS WITH THE NATIVE AMERICAN COMMUNITY.

NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS CORRESPONDENT ANTONIO GONZALES GOT A SNEAK PEEK BEFORE IT OPENED TO THE PUBLIC THIS MONTH.

>> Tony: HERE NOW AND ALWAYS.

THIS IS AN EXHIBIT OF NATIVE CULTURATION AND MANY CONSULTANTS TO GIVE VOICE TO THE NATIVE PEOPLE OF THE SOUTHWEST THROUGH THEIR WORDS AND THE MATERIAL CULTURE THAT THE COMMUNITIES PRODUCE FOR THE VISITORS TO SEE AND EXPERIENCE THESE VAST AND DIFFERENT AND LONG LIVED CULTURES IN THIS REGION.

SO WHEN VISITORS COME TO THE EXHIBITION, THEY COME TO THE EMERGENCE TUNNEL, WHICH IS A TRANSITORY SPACE SO THAT PEOPLE, AS MANY CULTURES IN THE SOUTHWEST, THE ORIGIN STORIES TALK ABOUT THE BEGINNINGS, FROM ANOTHER EARTH AND MERGING ONTO THIS EARTH.

THIS BRONZE SCULPTURE BY ROXANNE SWENTZELL THAT SHE CREATED AT THE EARLIER HERE NOW AND ALWAYS THAT WE WANTED TO KEEP THE EARTH MOTHER CREATING HER PEOPLE, AND THEN TELLING THEM TO GO FORTH.

SHE IS POINTING TOWARDS THE ENTRANCE OF THE EXHIBITION.

YOU COME OUT TO THE CYCLES HUB.

FROM THE CYCLES HUB, IT IS A CIRCULAR AND KIND OF BROKEN INTO DIFFERENT THEMES OF CYCLES.

THEY CAN CHOOSE THE DIRECTION THEY WANT TO GO THROUGH THE YAZZIE EXHIBIT, SO IT IS NOT JUST A MIX MAZE BUT BASICALLY THEY CHOOSE THEIR OWN PATH.

>> Antonia: WHY IS IT IMPORTANT THAT MUSEUMS COLLABORATE DIRECTLY WITH INDIGENOUS PEOPLE ESPECIALLY IF THEY ARE GOING TO SHARE INFORMATION ABOUT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES?

>> Tony: THE BEST PEOPLE TO INTERPRET A CULTURE ARE USUALLY THE PEOPLE FROM THAT CULTURE THEMSELVES.

THEY KNOW THE IN'S AND OUT'S.

THEY KNOW WHAT IS APPROPRIATE AND NOT APPROPRIATE TO DISCUSS.

IN THE PAST, THAT HAS ALWAYS BEEN AN ISSUE WITH MUSEUMS.

MANY TIMES NATIVE PEOPLE WEREN'T COMFORTABLE IN MUSEUMS OR THINGS WERE PRESENTED INACCURATELY OR KIND OF LIKE IN THIS PANNED INDIAN VOICE.

NOT RECOGNIZING THE VAST DIFFERENCES BETWEEN MANY OF THE DIFFERENT PEOPLE, EVEN IN OUR CORNER OF THE COUNTRY IN THE SOUTHWEST, THE COMMUNITIES TEND TO BE VERY DIFFERENT.

IT IS IMPORTANT TO GET THAT COMMUNITY VOICE SO THAT THEY CAN PRESENT THE THINGS THEY WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW AND WHAT THEY WANT THE WORLD TO KNOW ABOUT THEM.

>> Antonia: AND TO GO ALONG WITH THAT, WHY SHOULD MUSEUMS, ART SPACES, PRESENT PEOPLE AS LIVING CULTURES, LIVING HERE NOW IN TODAY'S WORLD INSTEAD OF PEOPLE OF THE PAST?

A LOT OF TIMES YOU SEE HISTORY BOOKS, MUSEUMS TALKING ABOUT NATIVE AMERICANS AS IN THE PAST.

>> Tony: VERY TRUE.

IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT FOR NATIVE PEOPLE TO BE PRESENTED IN THE HERE AND NOW BECAUSE YOU KNOW OFTEN IN THE POPULAR CULTURE, NATIVE PEOPLE ARE SEEN AS HOW THEY WERE IN 1880 OR SO AND THAT IS WELL OVER A CENTURY NOW.

AND WE ARE TRYING TO PRESENT BOTH THE PAST BUT ALSO THE PRESENT AND HOPEFULLY THE FUTURE SO THAT PEOPLE CAN SEE THAT NATIVE PEOPLE IN THIS REGION HAS A VERY LONG HISTORY HERE, YOU KNOW, GOING BACK BEFORE ANY EUROPEAN AND BEFORE PEOPLE WERE RECORDED IN HISTORY AND THAT IT CONTINUES TO THIS PRESENT DAY THAT PEOPLE ARE STILL LIVING, WORKING AND CREATING NOW.

>> Diane: THERE IS A DANCE GROUP OF ZUNI THAT IS NOT JUST ONE.

WE ONLY COULD PUT ONE IN HERE.

THERE IS UP TO 11 OF THEM AND THEY SING AND THEY DANCE AND THEY ARE REALLY JOYFUL AND THEY HAVE BEEN PRACTICALLY AROUND THE WORLD.

THEY HAVE BEEN HERE AT THE MUSEUM A COUPLE OF TIMES.

THE JEWELRY WAS CONSIGNED OUT TO JEWELERS AND ZUNI AND THERE IS RINGS, THERE IS PINS, THERE IS BRACELETS, THERE IS EARRINGS.

AND MRS. CORNITA ADAKI MADE MOST OF THE OUTFIT AND PAINTED THE POT.

THIS IS QUITE AN EVENT FOR ME TO PUT THIS TOGETHER BECAUSE IT TOOK US ABOUT TWO-AND-A-HALF DAYS BEFORE WE COULD REALLY GET HER STRAIGHT AND IT TOOK ABOUT THREE OR FOUR PEOPLE, IF NOT MORE, TO STANDARD OR DRESS HER AND I THINK NOW THE PEOPLE IN EXHIBITS HAVE LEARNED TO DRESS A PUEBLO MANNEQUIN, THAT WE ARE A NATION, NOT JUST PUEBLOS OR TRIBES.

WE ARE NATIONS, WE ARE SELF GOVERNING AND IT COMES TO MODERN TIMES WHEN I INCLUDED DEB HAALAND AND SHE WAS VERY GRACIOUS TO DONATE HER DRESS, TURQUOISE DRESS, THAT SHE WORE WHEN SHE WAS SWORN IN TO THE U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES AS THE REPRESENTATIVE FROM NEW MEXICO DISTRICT 1 AND THEN NOW SHE IS SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR.

SHE SIGNIFIES SOVEREIGNTY NOT JUST TO PEOPLE OF THE SOUTHWEST BUT TO ALL NATIVE PEOPLE IN THE UNITED STATES AND IN THE HEMISPHERE.

>> Antonia: AS A WOMAN HELPING CURATE AND ALSO JUST FEATURING NATIVE WOMEN IN THIS EXHIBIT NOT ONLY WHAT YOU DID HERE BUT ALL THROUGHOUT THE EXHIBIT, WHY IS THAT IMPORTANT?

>> Diane: I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE IT SHOWS WOMEN OF ALL TRIBES AND ALL THE WORK THAT WE DO AND IT IS RECOGNIZED HERE.

SO I WANTED TO RECOGNIZE BOTH FROM YOUNG PEOPLE LIKE MARLA ALLISON TO ME IN HER 20'S AND THEN LIKE TO ZUNI OLLA MAIDEN, AND THE FIRST OLLA MAIDEN CAME AND SHE IS LIKE A GRANDMA, A GREAT GRANDMA, AND THIS LADY IS A GRANDMOTHER AND THEIR TEACHER, TO ME THAT IS IMPORTANT, BECAUSE THE WOMEN ARE THE TEACHERS IN THE COMMUNITY.

MOST OF THE COMMUNITY.

IT IS UP TO THE WOMEN TO RELAY HOME, COMMUNITY, AND SUPPORT AND JUST KEEP THE FAMILY GOING.

>> Tony: THIS ONE IS BY LAUREN ARAGON FROM ACOMA PUEBLO.

HE ACTUALLY WAS -- HE WON THE DESIGN AWARD AT THE PHOENIX FASHION WEEK A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO AND CAME INTO THE MUSEUM AND WE ALREADY THOUGHT ABOUT ASKING HIM TO CREATE A PIECE FOR US BECAUSE WE WANTED TO GET MORE OF THE COUTURE IN THE COLLECTION.

WE THOUGHT WOULDN'T IT BE GREAT IF HE TOOK INSPIRATION FROM A PIECE IN THE COLLECTION.

SO, SO, HE WENT THROUGH AND LOOKED AT THE ACOMA PIECES AND HE SELECTED THIS JAR.

SO, HE SELECTED THE JAR AND THIS IS HIS INSPIRATION FROM A DRESS FROM THAT JAR.

ONE, I WANTED NOT TO SHOW THE STANDARD PIECES THAT KIND OF SOMETIMES PEOPLE EXPECT, THOSE FROM THE MAJOR ARTISAN, TOO.

I ALSO WANTED TO ACKNOWLEDGE THOSE THINGS LIKE THE GRANDMOTHER'S MAKE AT THE KITCHEN TABLES AS WELL.

THAT THE THINGS THEY MADE FOR COMMUNITIES, BUT ALSO TO SELL, BECAUSE THEY SAW THAT AS SUPPORTING THEIR FAMILIES AND CONTINUING THE CULTURE AS WELL AND TEACH THEIR CHILDREN HOW TO DO IT.

MY GRANDMOTHER TAUGHT ALL OF HER CHILDREN HOW TO PUT, BOTH BOYS AND GIRLS, BECAUSE SHE SAID, ONE DAY YOU MIGHT NEED TO MAKE A LIVING AT THIS, BUT AT THE SAME TIME IT WAS TO CONTINUE THE TRADITION OF HONORING AND WORKING WITH MOTHER EARTH AS WELL.

SO, THESE TWO THINGS THAT JOIN AND I WANTED TO DO THAT BUT ALSO WANTED TO CHOOSE THINGS THAT CAME FROM MANY DIFFERENT AREAS.

I AM FROM A PUEBLO, I JUST DIDN'T WANT TO HAVE JUST ONLY PUEBLO THINGS, BUT TO REALLY SHOWCASE ALL THE TRIBES NOT ONLY IN NEW MEXICO BUT IN THE GREATER SOUTHWEST.

I BELIEVE WE HAVE SOMETHING FROM EVERY CURRENTLY RECOGNIZED 20 PUEBLOS INCLUDING YSLETA DEL SUR IN TEXAS AND ALSO MANY DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES BOTH NAVAJO, APACHE, THE DIFFERENT GROUPS, JICARILLA APACHE, MESCALERO, SAN CARLOS BUT ALSO OTHERS AND PAIUTE AS WELL.

OUR HOPI NEIGHBORS IN ARIZONA.

SO, THAT WHEN PEOPLE COME HERE, HOPEFULLY THEY SEE AT LEAST SOMETHING FROM THEIR COMMUNITY OR REGION AND THAT THEY'LL ALSO FEEL PART OF THIS HUGE EXPERIENCE.

>> Diane: WE WANT VISITORS TO LEAVE HERE HAPPY TO KNOW WE ARE SURVIVORS AND THAT WE ARE NOT DOWNTRODDEN OR IMPOVERISHED OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT, BUT WE ARE HAPPY AND WE CONVEY NOT JUST TO OUR OWN PUEBLO BUT TO EVERYBODY IN NEW MEXICO AND EVERYBODY IN THE WORLD.

>> Gene: A NEW INITIATIVE ON THE BALLOT IN NOVEMBER WOULD INCREASE THE AMOUNT OF MONEY FROM THE LAND GRANT PERMANENT FUND THAT GOES TO EDUCATION.

WELCOME BACK TO THE LINE OPINION PANEL.

THE INITIATIVE WOULD INCREASE ITS PERMANENT FUND DISTRIBUTION BY 1.25%, WITH THAT MONEY GOING TOWARD EARLY CHILDHOOD EDUCATION AND AN INCREASE OF FUNDING FOR K THROUGH 12 SCHOOLS.

WE HAVE THE MONEY, LET'S JUST START THERE.

SOPHIE, IS THIS AN AREA TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF?

>> Sophie: I AM HAVING THIS SENSE OF DEJA VU.

I FEEL LIKE WE TALKED ABOUT THIS A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO ON THIS SHOW AND I DO STILL THINK, YOU KNOW, GIVEN WHERE OUR SCHOOL SYSTEMS ARE, OUR EDUCATIONAL PROGRAMS ARE NATIONWIDE, AND WHAT WE KNOW ON A LOCAL LEVEL ABOUT EDUCATION THAT OUR KIDS ARE RECEIVING, AND, OF COURSE, THIS IS NO SMACK AGAINST TEACHERS, THAT IT SEEMS CLEAR TO ME THAT MORE FUNDING IS NEEDED, AND, IN PARTICULAR, MORE FUNDING DIRECTED TOWARDS THE COMMUNITIES THAT PARTICIPATE IN THE YAZZIE MARTINEZ SUPREME COURT CASE.

YOU KNOW, THIS IS PART OF OUR STATE'S OBLIGATION TO TRIBAL COMMUNITIES AND OTHERS, SO, IT SEEMS TO ME MY HOPE IS THAT THE ELECTORATE WILL SAY YES TO THIS ONE.

>> Gene: MICHAEL, I WANT TO READ SOME OF THE SPECIFIC LANGUAGE FROM THE INITIATIVE.

WHICH STATES, THE EXTRA MONEY WOULD GO TOWARDS, QUOTE, ENHANCED INSTRUCTION FOR STUDENTS AT RISK OF FAILURE, EXTENDING THE SCHOOL YEAR, TEACHER COMPENSATION AND EARLY CHILDHOOD EDUCATION.

BUT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT AT LEAST 125 MILLION IN PRE-K AND UP TO 75 MILLION IN K THROUGH 12 PROGRAMS EACH YEAR.

THAT IS A LOT OF MONEY.

AND HOW DO YOU -- AGAIN, WE ARE GOING TO VOTERS ON THIS.

IS THIS SOMETHING THE VOTERS WOULD SUPPORT IN YOUR EARLY TAKE ON THIS?

>> Michael: I DON'T KNOW IF VOTERS WILL SUPPORT IT OR NOT.

I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT THAT -- I AM GLAD IT IS BEING PROPOSED, LET'S PUT IT THAT WAY.

AND, OF COURSE, ACCOUNTABILITY IS ONE OF MY CONCERNS.

BUT, I GUESS THE THING I WOULD SAY IS THAT THE POPULATION THAT WOULD BE IMPACTED OR REFERENCED IN TERMS OF THE YAZZIE MARTINEZ CASE AND WHEN YOU LOOK -- AND THIS IS BASED ON MY EXPERIENCE HERE IN NEW MEXICO AND EVERYTHING THAT I HAVE DONE IN TERMS OF PUBLIC HEALTH AND NEW MEXICO, IN TERMS OF POVERTY RATES, YOU KNOW, IN TERMS OF ALL OF THE NEGATIVE MEASURES, SOCIAL, ECONOMIC MEASURES IN NEW MEXICO, INDIANS CONSISTENTLY COME OUT AT THE BOTTOM.

AND THAT IS NO ACCIDENT.

I MEAN, IT IS NOT BECAUSE WE ARE INFERIOR GENETICALLY.

IT IS NOT BECAUSE WE ARE LAZY.

IT IS NOT BECAUSE WE ARE NOT COMMITTED, BECAUSE YOU SEE THOSE OF US WHO HAVE BEEN PROVIDED THE OPPORTUNITY AND SEIZED THE OPPORTUNITY CAN COMPETE.

AND RACISM IS STILL A VERY REAL THING HERE IN NEW MEXICO AS WELL AS THE REST OF THE NATION.

I WON'T GO INTO THAT BUT SO, YOU KNOW, IF YOU REALLY -- THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS NEW MEXICO -- I WOULD SAY THIS, NEW MEXICO'S ECONOMY HISTORICALLY HAS BEEN PREDICATED ON INDIANS AND NATIVE ART, CULTURE, ARCHEOLOGY, HISTORY AND SO MUCH -- PEOPLE DON'T REALIZE IT.

THEY DON'T SEE THAT BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT CONNECTED TO IT AND THEY DON'T KNOW THE HISTORY OF NEW MEXICO.

BUT, IF THEY DID, I THINK MANY PEOPLE WOULD HAVE MORE OF A SENSE OF APPRECIATION OF THAT, OF WHAT NATIVE PEOPLE HAVE CONTRIBUTED IN TERMS OF LAND, ART, CULTURE, ARCHEOLOGY, HISTORY.

THE BASE FOR NEW MEXICO -- SIGNIFICANT PART OF THE BASE OF NEW MEXICO, WHICH ALSO IS RELATED TO THE ECONOMY, HAS TO DO WITH NATIVE PEOPLE.

HAVE NATIVE PEOPLE BENEFITED?

IT IS HARD TO SEE IT FROM MY LENS, FROM MY VIEW.

AND UNLESS WE BEGIN TO INVEST IN NATIVE CHILDREN AND IN NATIVE PROGRAMMING, NOTHING IS GOING TO CHANGE.

>> Gene: LET ME ASK YOU THIS, THAT IS AN EXCELLENT POINT SO I CAN GET TO THIS QUESTION.

THE ALL PUEBLO COUNCIL OF GOVERNORS, AS YOU KNOW, SUPPORTS THE PLAN AND GROUP SAYS IT HAS A SPECIFIC STRATEGY FOR THE MONEY IF IT IS APPROVED AND IT WOULD BE POTENTIALLY MUCH MORE EFFICIENT WAY, WHAT SOPHIE MENTIONED, TO ADDRESS THE YAZZIE MARTINEZ LAWSUIT BECAUSE THE GROUP SAYS ITS GOAL IS TO DIRECT FUNDS TO TRIBAL EDUCATION DEPARTMENTS THEY SAY CAN REFORM LOCAL SCHOOLS EFFICIENTLY.

THAT SOUND PRETTY GOOD, ACTUALLY.

I'M INTERESTED IN YOUR THOUGHTS ON THAT.

>> Michael: IT CAN HAPPEN.

I WAS PART OF, FOR MY OWN TRIBE, HELP CREATE THE KEWA PUBLIC HEALTH CENTER FOR SANTA DOMINGO PUEBLO A NUMBER OF YEARS AGO, GETTING SERVICES THROUGH.

HS, WE WENT 638 AND TOOK OVER THE FACILITY, EXPANDED ON THE FACILITY, EXPANDED REVENUE, EXPANDED SERVICES, AND TOTALLY CHANGED THE NATURE AND QUALITY OF SERVICES THAT WERE AVAILABLE TO KEWA PUEBLO AS WELL AS SURROUNDING PUEBLOS BECAUSE IT IS A MAJOR HEALTH CENTER LOCATED ON THE RESERVATION.

AND WHEN YOU SEE WHAT IHS WAS PROVIDING AND WHAT IS BEING PROVIDED NOW IT HAS ALTERED AND CHANGE THE QUALITY AND NATURE OF HEALTHCARE BEING AVAILABLE TO KEWA PUEBLO AS WELL AS OTHERS AND OTHER TRIBES THAT EXERCISE THAT UNDER PUBLIC LAW 9638, INDIAN SELF DETERMINATION, THIS SEEMS TO ME TO BE A VERSION OF THAT SO THAT THE TRIBES NOW CAN DO THINGS IN THE WAY THAT THEY CHOOSE TO.

AS OPPOSED TO HAVING TO GO TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, AS OPPOSED TO HAVING PROGRAMS THAT GO THROUGH THE STATE, MUCH OF THE CDC FUNDING, I DON'T KNOW IF IT IS STILL THE CASE NOW, BUT IN THE PAST THE NATIVE POPULATIONS WOULD BE PART OF THE POPULATION THAT THE STATE WOULD GO FORWARD FOR FEDERAL FUNDINGS TO CDC AND OTHER AGENCIES, WE WOULD BE COUNTED BUT WHEN THOSE FUNDS CAME TO THE STATE, VERY LITTLE OR NOTHING EVER GOT TO THE TRIBES.

>> Gene: GOOD POINT.

EXACTLY RIGHT THERE.

INTERESTING, WE HAVE BEEN WAITING ON ACTION AS WE TALK ABOUT THIS ON THE YAZZIE MARTINIEZ LAWSUITS FOR YEARS NOW AND NOW IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT, A POTENTIAL SOLUTION IS IN THE HANDS OF THE VOTERS.

IS THAT THE PROPER AVENUE FOR THIS OR SHOULD THE LEGISLATURE STEP UP AND TAKE ACTION ON THIS?

>> Merritt: THIS IS NOT WAY TO DO IT.

THE LEGISLATURE SHOULD STEP UP.

PED SHOULD STEP UP.

THIS IS A WAY TO PASS THE BUCK TO THE VOTERS WITH MONEY THAT COMES FROM SOMEPLACE ELSE.

FIRST OF ALL, THE MAJORITY OF THIS GOES TO EARLY CHILDHOOD.

WE HAVE AN EARLY CHILDHOOD INVESTMENT FUND ALREADY THAT IS MAKING MORE MONEY THAN ANYBODY EVER THOUGHT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN.

WHAT HAPPENED TO THAT?

AND I WOULD GO TO MICHAEL'S POINT ABOUT ACCOUNTABILITY.

THERE IS NOT ENOUGH IN THE BALLOT INITIATIVE TO REALLY PUT ANY TEETH IN IT, WHERE IT IS GOING TO GO.

IF IT IS ALLOCATED BY SCHOOL DISTRICT, APS IS GOING TO GET MOST OF IT.

APS HAS SHOWN IT CAN'T DELIVER A BUDGET THAT CAN PASS BOARD SCRUTINY, MUCH LESS SOMETHING THAT THE PUBLIC WOULD ACCEPT IN A VOTER INITIATIVE.

I THINK IT IS -- I THINK THE GOALS ARE ABSOLUTELY APPROPRIATE.

I THINK THE MECHANISM IS NOT.

>> Gene: YOU HEARD EARLIER, MERRITT, I MENTIONED THE FOUR LITTLE BULLET POINTS THAT THE ADMINISTRATION WANTS TO ADDRESS.

BUT I HAVE TO SAY AGAIN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT 200 MILLION A YEAR.

I MEAN, WHICH IS GREAT, DON'T GET ME WRONG HERE.

THIS IS REALLY QUITE WONDERFUL.

HOW DOES ONE SPEND THAT AMOUNT OF MONEY?

THAT IS A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF MONEY.

>> Merritt: IN AN ACCOUNTABLE WAY.

WHERE HAS PED BEEN THIS WHOLE TIME, WHERE HAS THE LEGISLATURE BEEN THIS WHOLE TIME?

I THINK THIS IS PASSING THE BUCK IN A WAY WITHOUT PUTTING A LOT OF THOUGHT INTO IT AND FINDING A NEW POT OF MONEY AND PUTTING IT ON THE VOTERS TO COME UP WITH IT.

I DON'T LIKE THIS AT ALL.

>> Gene: THE PREVIOUSLY MENTIONED PED, STATE PUBLIC EDUCATION DEPARTMENT, RELEASED ITS DRAFT PLAN TO ADDRESS THE YAZZIE MARTINEZ SUIT EARLIER THIS YEAR, BUT PUBLIC COMMENTS KIND OF SLIPPED BY, THEY ENDED JUNE 17.

DOES THIS BALLOT INITIATIVE CHANGE THAT PLAN AT ALL IN YOUR VIEW?

>> Sophie: IT REMAINS TO BE SEEN.

YOU KNOW THERE WAS SOME COMMENTARY AT THE TIME THAT MAYBE THE PED PLAN DIDN'T GO FAR ENOUGH, SO, WILL THEY VIEW THIS AS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR SORT OF A MULTIPLICATIVE EFFECT OR, YOU KNOW, I THINK IT IS JUST GOING TO DEPEND ON THE OUTCOMES AND LET'S FACE IT, THIS PASSED THROUGH THE BALLOT INITIATIVE.

IT IS NOT A SHORT ONE.

SO -- >> Gene: THE GOALS HERE, I GOT TO THROW THIS IN, THE GOAL OF 15% INCREASE IN GRADUATION RATES, INCREASED READING AND MATH PROFICIENCY BY 50% FOR THE GROUPS IDENTIFIED IN THE LAWSUIT BY 2025 AND GOALS ARE IMPORTANT.

BUT A LOT OF THE -- THAT IS RIGHT, THAT IS INTERESTING.

REALLY FAST.

>> Sophie: IT IS FAST.

IT IS IMPORTANT TO HAVE GOALS BUT EQUALLY IMPORTANT TO HAVE GOALS THAT ARE ACHIEVABLE WITHIN YOUR GRASP AND THAT 50%, IN PARTICULAR, THAT IS A FAST TIMELINE FOR THAT.

NOW, I AM NOT AN EDUCATOR, I AM NOT WORKING IN THAT PARTICULAR ARENA.

I AM NOT AN EXPERT IN THAT ARENA BUT FROM OUTSIDE, GIVEN THE TIMELINE, THAT FEELS REALLY QUICK TO ME.

>> Gene: WE'LL HAVE TO SEE WHERE MERRITT'S POINT STANDS ON THIS TOO.

A LOT OF FOLKS ARE NOT CRAZY ABOUT BALLOT INITIATIVES FOR BIG MONEY.

SO WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS HERE.

THIS IS GOING TO BE INTERESTING.

THANKS AGAIN TO THE LINE PANEL AS ALWAYS.

THIS WEEK BE SURE TO LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT ANY TOPIC THE LINE COVERED ON OUR FACEBOOK, TWITTER OR INSTAGRAM PAGES.

ONE OF THE LINGERING HABITS FROM THE PANDEMIC SHUTDOWN FOR ME IS YOUTUBE, PARTICULARLY FOLLOWING YOUTUBERS WHO CRAWL THE DESERT SOUTHWEST.

I LOVE THEM.

GHOST TOWNS, OLD MINING OPERATIONS, ALL THAT GLORIOUS DETRITUS THAT COMES WITH IT, SO MUCH FUN TO WATCH.

THE LATEST VERSIONS HAVE BEEN YOUTUBERS REPORTING ON THE DROPPING WATER LEVELS AT THE BIGGER RESERVOIRS IN THE REGION.

MOST RECENTLY THE SITUATION OUT AT LAKE MEAD ON THE NEVADA ARIZONA BORDER, NOTABLY THAT DEAD BODY FOUND IN THE 55-GALLON DRUM.

I AM SURE YOU CAUGHT THE NEWS ON THAT, BUT WHAT YOUTUBERS REVEAL FROM GROUND ZERO WITH CELL PHONES AND GO PROS IS FAR MORE SHOCKING THAN WHAT THE NEWS CHANNELS HAVE SHOWN.

A 170-FOOT WATER DROP WILL GET YOUR ATTENTION AND THAT IS WHAT HAS HAPPENED AT LAKE MEAD.

AS YOU MIGHT IMAGINE OUR OWN ELEPHANT BUTTE IS IN THE MIX WITH A 90-FOOT DROP FROM HIGH WATER MARK.

THE IMPACT ON RECREATION AND COMMERCE IS WELL REPORTED BY THESE YOUTUBERS AS IS THE IMPACT ON OUR FARMS WHICH HAS BEEN WELL REPORTED BY MY COLLEAGUE, LAURA PASKUS, FOR OUR LAND.

BUT WHAT REALLY GETS ME WATCHING THESE INTREPID YOUTUBERS IS HOW THE LITTLE ENCAMPMENTS AND THINGS FROM YEARS AGO THAT THEY VISIT WILL ALMOST ALWAYS BE NEAR A SMALL TRICKLING SPRING.

NOW, IT IS A REMINDER THAT NO MATTER HOW SMALL THE MERCURY CLAIM OR ANY OTHER ENTERPRISE FROM BACK IN THE DAY, IF THERE WASN'T FRESH WATER NEARBY, YOUR CLAIM LIKELY WASN'T HAPPENING.

ACCESS TO WATER IS TRULY THE STORY OF THE WEST.

WE HAVE MORE SCIENCE BEHIND WATER MANAGEMENT THESE DAYS AND THANK GOODNESS FOR THAT.

BUT SOME THINGS TRULY DON'T CHANGE.

THANKS AGAIN FOR JOINING US AND STAYING INFORMED AND ENGAGED.

WE'LL SEE YOU AGAIN NEXT WEEK IN FOCUS.

>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO In FOCUS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.