♪♪ -This is the pasta episode.

-I think whole grain pasta tastes not very good.

-I like that.

You're hired.

-That's why we're friends.

Yeah.

-I call this anchovy gateway spaghetti.

-I just feel like this is hitting every note.

Look at the ruffles.

Look at the way the sauce clings to those ruffles.

I love the ratio of pasta to filling.

-This -- I don't want to burn my mouth, but it's for TV, so.

[ Slurping ] ♪♪ I'm Vivian, part chef... This is a match made in heaven.

...part student... What is gluten, anyway?

...full of questions.

What's this?

How cold is it in here?

How do you heat it up?

Welcome to "Kitchen Curious".

-Major funding for "Kitchen Curious" with Vivian Howard is provided by the ETV Endowment of South Carolina, the proud partner of South Carolina ETV and South Carolina Public Radio, with the generosity of individuals, corporations, and foundations, the ETV Endowment of South Carolina is committed to sharing entertaining and uplifting stories and series like "Kitchen Curious", and by Penny Kay Cooper.

Additional funding provided by the Bea and Ray Norwood Foundation -- building community in Florence, South Carolina, and First Citizens Bank.

♪♪ -So today, we're talking about pasta.

Pasta is creamy.

It's comforting.

It's something you can sink your teeth into.

But there are other reasons that we should love pasta.

All the doctors and the planet and our pocketbook, they tell us that we should be eating less meat.

Now, I am not planning on going vegetarian any time soon, but I am interested in having less meat on my plate, and pasta is a great way to do that, because think about some of the most famous pasta dishes of all time.

Carbonara, spaghetti with clams, regular old spaghetti that you make with ground beef.

These are highly seasoned meats that are being stretched across a meal to make the meal more satisfying.

So we're about to do that.

You know what is another very highly seasoned meat that you love and you don't know it?

Anchovies.

♪♪ We're going to make a very quick spaghetti using two pantry ingredients that I want you all to go to the grocery store and buy.

And that is panko breadcrumbs and the lovely anchovy.

Alright.

So we're going to start in my pan here.

I'm going to put a little bit of butter.

I've got some chopped anchovies that I'm going to put on top of this butter, and they're going to kind of start to dissolve, and these caramelized onions.

So now I said this pasta dish is going to come together very quickly.

And it will.

But the thing that takes time here are caramelizing these onions.

But onions are something that you should have around.

And I recommend caramelizing onions in a big batch, and then put them in the freezer so you can pull them out for quick meals like this.

So I've got my caramelized onions in here, my anchovies.

And I call this anchovy gateway spaghetti, because there are a lot of people who think they don't like anchovies, and I think they're wrong.

I think a lot of people forget that anchovies are what makes Caesar salad taste so good.

They're what gives Worcestershire sauce its distinction.

So if you can't see it, why worry about it?

So I'm going to put a pinch of chili flake.

And then I'm going to add my cooked spaghetti here.

And the other very important pasta ingredient that I'm always forgetting to save is pasta water.

But water that you cook pasta in has a lot of starch in it.

And that's going to give you a creamy pasta without a lot of additional fat.

So please try to save it.

Alright.

So that pasta water has cooked down and is enrobing my noodles.

And I'm going to add a good pinch of rosemary.

And I want to add that in the end, because I think it allows it to keep some of its freshness, its piney scent.

I'm going to add my remaining butter, parmesan cheese.

That's also going to help make things a little creamy.

And lemon juice.

You know, if you've followed my cooking at all, I love to add acid at the end of things to balance these big flavors.

And the lemon juice here really is going to do that for you.

I'm going to mound my anchovy gateway spaghetti in my bowl right here, and I'm going to top it with some toasted panko.

This breadcrumb -- I mean, I don't know that I could live without it.

It adds texture and crunch and it also absorbs flavor really easily.

It's a great addition to almost any pasta dish.

I might even try it.

♪♪ This -- I don't want to burn my mouth.

But it's for TV, so.

[ Slurping ] ♪♪ With all the information out there about what we should and shouldn't be eating, I can get really confused at the grocery store.

That's why my friend Christine, who's a nutritionist, is coming with me to Walmart to decipher the pasta aisle.

This is the pasta episode.

-Yeah.

-I love pasta.

I think most people love pasta.

-I love pasta.

-The only people who have problems with pasta, I think, these days are people who don't eat gluten.

-Yeah.

-What is gluten, anyway?

-Yeah.

So this is something I love to tell people.

Gluten is found in wheat, but it's actually a protein.

-What?

-Yeah, like protein is the thing right now.

-Everybody's crazy about protein.

-Crazy.

And then there are all these people avoiding gluten.

And just to be clear, there are people with celiac disease.

That's an autoimmune condition.

And you really have to avoid gluten if you have that.

And then there's gluten intolerance, which is a little bit of a loosey goosey term.

But I do think there are people who think that it's just healthier not to eat gluten.

But if gluten doesn't bother you, it's not bad.

-And the gluten is what gives pasta the thing that we love, which is the texture.

-Yeah, it's, like, the chew.

-The toothsomeness.

-Yeah.

♪♪ You like pasta because it's a way to stretch other stuff, right?

-Yes.

-And everybody likes it.

And so I kind of think about pasta like that, too.

You're never just eating pasta.

It's all the different things.

And in that way, it is a really good meal, right?

-Yeah.

I think it can be very healthy.

-Yes.

White flour pasta kind of gets a bad rap, now that we have the other kinds of pasta -- whole grain and all the gluten-free stuff like chickpeas that gets marketed as higher protein.

And I don't know about you, but I think whole grain pasta, the old school one, tastes not very good.

-Yeah.

Me, too.

I was hoping -- Okay, well, I knew that you would agree with that.

Let's compare some whole wheat spaghetti -- -Yep.

-...to some... -With this over here.

-...good spaghetti.

-Yep.

-[ Chuckles ] -So this regular spaghetti has two grams of fiber per serving, and yours has... -Four.

-Four.

-It's not worth it to me.

-Double.

But right.

It's only two grams.

Throw in... -Some spinach.

-Yes.

-That's the easiest thing -- -Extra couple of florets of broccoli, and you're pretty much matching.

-Because it seems like what you're saying is in order to make it healthy, it's not about taking something away.

It's about adding more variety to that dish.

-Yes.

-I like that.

You're hired.

-That's why we're friends.

Yeah.

♪♪ -I have two restaurants in Charleston, and every month I go down there to check on things and do my work.

And this time, I invited my friend Dan Pashman to join me.

Dan created a new pasta shape called Cascatelli.

And he's not even Italian.

He also made a podcast series called "Mission: ImPASTAble".

I was wondering if you would be willing to come to Charleston and do a little noodle crawl.

-When do I show up?

I'm there.

-We'll start at my restaurant, Lenoir, here.

♪♪ Hey.

-Hey, babe.

How are you?

Great to see you.

-Good.

Are you hungry?

-Oh, my gosh.

You know it.

Always.

-Oh, awesome.

Come on, let's have a seat.

I wanted to start at Lenoir today because my executive chef, Manny, and I are working on perfecting a new noodle dish for our menu.

So you've heard of chicken and dumplings?

-Yep.

-In eastern North Carolina, we call it chicken and pastry.

-Oh, interesting.

-And so this would be pastry.

It's just like a flat little noodle that gets cooked in the broth that you would have boiled the chicken in.

-Right.

-But in this case, he's boiled ham hocks and corn cobs to make a flavorful broth.

-I'm trying to compose the ideal bite here.

There's so many components, and I want them all in my bite.

-I've heard you talk about that on "Mission" ImPASTAble".

Sorry.

I love -- I love to draw that out.

-Mmm.

This is phenomenal.

It's got -- I mean, it's salty and smoky, but then you get a little sweetness from the corn.

You get the bitterness from the greens.

I just feel like this is -- It's hitting every note.

-I will say, you know, you've got these three things that you're looking for in every noodle.

-Yes, so there's fork-ability, which is how easy it is to get it on your fork and keep it there.

-Got it.

-Sauce-ability -- how readily does sauce adhere.

And tooth sink-ability, which is how satisfying is it to sink your teeth into it.

These are the ways that I judge all pasta shapes.

This is very tooth-sinkable.

I like that it's thick cut.

You can sink your teeth into it.

It's very fork-able because it's fresh pasta, so it's a little doughy.

It's never gonna be the most sauce-able shape.

-Right.

-But this isn't really a dish that's, like, designed for sauce-ability.

This is like a three-course meal in a bowl.

And so the pasta is like a complementary component.

So, Viv, you invited me here to go on a pasta noodle crawl of Charleston.

And this is already -- We're off to a phenomenal start.

But, like, what else do we have in store for the day?

-We started with, like, a southern kind of dumpling dish.

So it's not going to be all traditional pasta.

But we will see some Italian, we're going to see some Asian.

And then another kind of, like, low country expression.

-I can't wait.

-You will not be bored, and you will not be hungry.

-[ Laughs ] [ String music plays ] ♪♪ I lived in Charleston one summer during college, and it was kind of like my hot girl summer, you know?

And I was a server.

-A lot of capes involved, I'm sure.

-A lot of capes.

No, I've taken the cape off.

-Okay.

-This used to be a place called Vickery's.

And I had my first ever steak salad of my life -- -Right.

-...here, and probably flashed my fake ID close to 40 times.

-[ Laughs ] -Hello.

-Hi.

-Hey.

-How are y'all?

-Phenomenal.

-Great.

How are you?

-Very good.

-So, what is this?

-This is agnolotti with duck confit, funghi misti, and the drippings from the duck confit.

-Oh.

-So that's what the pasta is coated with, the mixture of mushrooms just simply dressing.

It's all about the flavor.

-What's the difference between agnolotti and ravioli?

-You'll see a few different versions, but if you pick one up with your fork, you'll notice -- -I was gonna say, if I don't -- I'm going to die.

-Do it.

-Yeah.

-You can't stare at it any longer.

-I want my life to change right now.

-Yeah, yeah.

-So there's a little pocket at the top of the agnolotti.

That little flap of pasta that holds sauce a little bit.

-It's almost like a kangaroo pouch.

-Fold it over.

Yep.

Exactly.

-Look at the way the sauce pools in there just a tiny bit.

That's gonna make a big difference.

So this is an issue with some stuffed pastas.

There's nowhere for the sauce -- -Yeah.

-There's no crevices.

I think that's a subtle but substantial attribute of this shape.

-Yes, I think it makes it win out over ravioli, for sure.

-Yeah.

-Yeah.

Mmm.

I love the ratio of pasta to filling in yours in particular.

-Thank you.

Thank you.

-Because you get a lot of flavor from the pasta.

You get the tooth sink-ability and the doughiness.

Sometimes you get a ravioli, and they list three different things that are in the ravioli, and then you get this tiny little microlayer of it, and you can't even taste the things that were supposed to be in there.

-Yeah, this is, like, a real pouch of filling.

-Yes.

And, you know, talk about stretching meat.

Anytime you're adding mushrooms to meat, the mushroom is like the steak of the plant kingdom.

-Absolutely.

But, you know, if you were to take this plate, there's probably 1 1/2 ounces of meat in the dish.

I don't leave this wanting any more.

-Oh, no, no.

I mean, I would take more, if you offered me another plate, Viv.

But no, 100%.

♪♪ -I've told Dan the pasta man, all about the crab spaghetti at The Grocery.

I think he's gonna flip out.

-Thank you, ma'am.

-After you, Dan.

-Why, thank you.

-We got the whole restaurant to ourselves.

-This is beautiful.

♪♪ -How are y'all doing?

-Alright.

How are you, Chef?

-Great.

-Good.

So we've got our Mafaldine pasta with North Carolina lump crab and a little Calabrian chili butter.

-I thought it was spaghetti.

-Well, we made a couple menu changes recently, and we're doing -- we're now featuring the dish with Mafaldine instead.

-I got to say, I love this.

It's like fettuccine, but with ruffles down the edges.

Or imagine, like, a narrow lasagna.

And Mafaldine is the shape that most inspired my pasta shape creation, Cascatelli.

It's the ruffles on this specific shape that made me say more pasta shapes should have ruffles.

-Right.

-And they're better at holding sauce than tubes.

They're an interesting texture to bite into.

So I'm just very, very excited about this.

-Well, that's a pretty solid happenstance, I guess.

-Yeah.

-I really feel your passion.

-Yeah.

Did you make this -- It's fresh or dried?

-We make that through our extruder.

-Wow.

-Yeah.

-Will you sit down with us?

-Oh, sure.

-Yeah.

Come pull up a chair.

Let's talk more about pasta shapes.

-[ All laugh ] Look at the ruffles.

Look at the way the sauce clings to those ruffles.

You won't get that much sauce in any tube.

This is outstanding.

-Thank you.

-Mmm.

I just got the chili pepper at the very end there.

-Yeah.

-Lemony, creamy.

A lot of crab flavor.

And the other thing you have here, which I love, is the toasted breadcrumbs on top.

-Right.

-Mm-hmm.

-Classic Italian move that I feel like not enough -- we don't see enough in America.

American pasta dishes don't have enough texture.

-Right.

It's a mixture of semolina bread crumbs and toasted benne seed that we sprinkle on top.

-Well, I love that you talk so much, so I can eat.

-Yeah.

[ Laughs ] -[ Laughs ] Other than the pasta itself, the star of this dish is crab.

-Sure.

North Carolina crab at that.

-This crab pasta versus a crab cake.

The pasta takes the crab much further than a crab cake would.

And it feels like a lot more than it actually is.

-Yeah.

-Because of those beautiful ruffles.

-There you go.

That's right.

-[ Laughs ] ♪♪ You know what I'm in the mood for, Viv?

-More pasta?

[ Laughs ] -More pasta.

[ Laughs ] -So we're going to North Charleston now.

And it's Chinese barbecue with southern inflection.

-Ooh, that sounds very exciting.

-Yeah.

♪♪ ♪♪ Oh.

Thank you.

How are you?

-Good.

How are you?

Good to see you.

-Good.

Nice to see you.

This is my friend Dan.

-Dan, very nice to meet you.

Thanks for having us.

-Dan Pashman, pasta extraordinaire.

-That's what I hear.

I can't wait to hear about more about this shape.

[ Laughter ] ♪♪ -Wow.

-Oh, my goodness.

-So this is our crispy smoked duck leg on Hong Kong style egg noodles.

Little bok choy, seasoned soy, and scallion ginger relish.

When most people think Chinese barbecue, they think obviously the meat is, like, a very important part of the whole dish.

But I think Chinese people take a lot of pride on the noodle as well.

It has to be, like, this perfect texture, almost, like, that ramen noodle.

Has that really nice bite and solidity to it.

-And what kind of noodles are these?

-Hong Kong style egg noodles are very, very thin egg noodles.

The noodle itself is so thin, it literally only takes 30 seconds to cook.

-That's what I was going to say, you're, like, just... -Just in and out and that's it.

And, like, literally a few seconds over, you taste a huge difference between, like, a perfectly cooked noodle and a slightly overcooked noodle.

♪♪ -That duck is so good.

-Yeah, I feel like the duck is very good, but it's like a good seasoning meat for the noodles instead of the duck being the main thing, because it goes really well together.

-What's the seasoning on the noodles?

-Just a little bit of scallion oil and seasoned soy, which has some soy that's been stewed with lots of ginger, scallion.

-That's -- I think it's the seasoned soy.

That's what -- That's what's giving it -- -Yeah, it gives a little extra kick.

-Yeah, yeah.

It's like an extra something something.

-Little tang and a little bit of bite right here.

-Yes.

I mean, I have trouble putting my finger on it, but that's what it is.

-Well, this is really different than anything we've had today because you do kind of eat them separately.

-Right.

-But neither one of them would be as good on their own.

-Yeah, because the duck would be too fat and too much flavor, and then the noodle would just be too plain.

-All noodles come from Asia.

And that's how they ended up in Italy.

-Right.

That's the argument my mom would make.

-Yes.

-Yeah.

No, I mean, it's true.

I'm really glad that we came here because it would be not fully exploring the genre if we didn't go where it started.

-I appreciate it.

Thank you so much.

♪♪ -I don't know about you, but I have had enough pasta for a while.

-Yeah, at least till tomorrow.

-Well, that's you, the pasta man, but... -[ Laughs ] ♪♪ ♪♪ -So this next dish we're going to make is inspired by something Miss Lily Hardy taught me to make on "A Chef's Life".

She called that, kill hungry.

Kill hungry was essentially ground beef, seasoned with salt and pepper and then mounted with macaroni noodles and tomatoes.

And when we made that that day and I ate it, I was like, "Ah, this is like the best thing I've ever had."

But it reminds me of Hamburger Helper.

We're going to make something kind of similar today.

♪♪ So we're going to start with some very highly seasoned beef.

Take all your spices.

And in this case, I have some allspice, some cumin.

I love adding cumin to beef.

I feel like it makes it taste beefier.

Onion powder, garlic powder, black pepper, and salt.

I'm going to get in here with my hands and mix this up and make sure it's all really homogeneous, and all the spices are mixed into the beef evenly.

So if you were to mix this the night before and then tuck it into your refrigerator overnight, all the flavors would kind of meld together.

And rather than having ground beef that tastes like it's got some cumin and some allspice and some onion powder in it, you're going to have ground beef that tastes like sausage.

Now I'm going to start to brown this beef.

So I'm going to add a little bit of olive oil to my pan.

And then I'm going to put my beef in there and allow it to start to caramelize.

[ Beef sizzling ] I have, like, a 12-inch skillet here and only about a pound of meat.

So I'm taking great pains to make sure that my meat is not crowded in the pan, because the caramelization, the browning of the beef is going to add flavor.

And now I'm going to do something that is very hard for me.

And it seems to be really hard for a lot of you, too.

I'm going to just step away from it for a second and let it begin to brown.

Resist the urge to shake or stir.

I may have to leave the room, honestly.

[ Laughs ] ♪♪ So now I've got my heat on medium-high, high because I really want to encourage this caramelization.

So I think I've got some browning on the bottom layer here, but to the top of it, I am going to add my diced onions.

I'm going to hit them with a little bit of salt so that they start to sweat and wilt and give up some of their liquid.

Alright, so I think it's probably safe for me to stir this a little bit.

Oh, yeah.

I've got some nice caramelization there.

You can see that some of my onions have started to brown and then others are just translucent and kind of lint.

And that means they have properly sweated.

They've sweat enough.

They're sweaty.

So now, to this, I'm going to start adding some of the things that make this a dish that I like to serve my kids.

So a lot of the recipes I develop sneak vegetables in in some way.

So I'm going to add some finely chopped broccoli.

And it's finely chopped because I don't want it to be the star.

I don't want for Theo or Flo to dig their little fork in there and be like, "Is this a broccoli dish?"

No it's not.

The broccoli is just in the background.

I'm going to add just a little bit of water to scrape up the flavor that has accumulated on the bottom of the pan, and generally, I'm opposed to adding water to food.

I'm always like, let's add stock or juice or beer or wine, add flavor.

But in this case, what I'm trying to do is scrape up the flavor on the bottom of the pan.

But we do want that water to kind of cook out of this pan before we take our next step.

And we're getting there.

So now I'm going to start mixing this dish up and transfer it to this bowl.

♪♪ That's good.

Holly seasoned.

[ Laughs ] So now we're gonna add the pasta.

And so when Miss Lily made her kill hungry, she used macaroni.

But I'm here to tell you that I love me a bow tie.

I think that they are one of the best pastas for capturing sauce, because they've got these little divots in the middle and all this sauce and goodness gets caught in those.

So my photographer also tells me it's much more visually appealing.

Now I'm going to add something I know people are going to be really thrilled about, which is cabbage kraut.

Kraut is one of these ingredients that I love to use because it's not only good for you, it also adds a lot of texture and acid to your dish.

And I can say that my kids do not like kraut, but they like this.

I've got some mozzarella cheese.

I'm going to add about half of that, some parmesan cheese, about half of that, reserving the rest for the top, some sour cream, and then a little bit of milk just to bring it all together.

♪♪ You see, I've got this all mixed up.

♪♪ And spread this bad boy out.

And then in case we're worried somebody's gonna see that kraut and that broccoli peeking out of there, I'm just gonna cover it with some more cheese.

I'm going to put this in a 350 degree oven for about 45 minutes.

♪♪ ♪♪ Alright, so my kill hungry with bow tie pasta is out of the oven.

And I'm going to give it a little try because I am indeed hungry.

And you can see how creamy it is and how, although there's not a ton of beef in there, it still kind of looks like the star.

But you and I both know that the kraut is.

♪♪ Mm.

That's really good.

I know I act surprised, but I always am a little bit.

♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ -Major funding for "Kitchen Curious" with Vivian Howard is provided by the ETV Endowment of South Carolina, the proud partner of South Carolina ETV and South Carolina Public Radio, with the generosity of individuals, corporations, and foundations, the ETV Endowment of South Carolina is committed to sharing entertaining and uplifting stories and series like "Kitchen Curious", and by Penny Kay Cooper.

Additional funding provided by the Bea and Ray Norwood Foundation -- building community in Florence, South Carolina, and First Citizens Bank.